I thought It would be a good idea to have a post episode 8 discussion. I have a few questions about how it all went down and I was wondering what others thought.

First of all, Savage was in good stead with his alliance, the Bayon Bros. Joe seemingly was one of his main men.

According to Ciera, the POWER alliance, that was running things, were Savage, Jeremy, Tasha, and Stephen/Joe. We know that Kimmi is solidly with Jeremy, Tasha and Stephen, and Keith is solidly with Joe. But, I suppose that Kimmi and Keith are on the outer layer of their respective onions.

What I can't understand is last week, with the Kass vote, Jeremy brought up the hidden idol coming in to play and they should therefore split the vote. So, with that rationale, there were only 3 girls on the outs with this vote, and 9 people to vote them out. Why on Earth didn't they want to split this vote, 5/4? They would still have had enough votes for either option?

I can't help but feel someone tipped Kelley off, AND, someone honed in on her as the boot target. Not once was her name mentioned. Only Ciera was a target of Andrew's overwhelmingly.

I really feel there are indeed alliances that we are not privy too. I am particularly suspect of Kelley, Spencer, Jeremy, Stephen.

And, as I understood it, it was Jeremy that deflected and turned down the vote suggestion for Stephen. He must have insisted that it NOT be Stephen.

So, what does this tell Joe? Were bargains made that we were not privy to? We know that Joe knows that Stephen is gunning for him, so what will happen next week?

I would love to hear everyone's thoughts!

• RE: Post Ep 8 Discussion,michel2, 11:35 PM, 11-12-15
• RE: Post Ep 8 Discussion,PepeLePew13, 00:57 AM, 11-13-15
• I found this interesting,Rembrandt, 02:22 AM, 11-13-15
• RE: Post Ep 8 Discussion,Rembrandt, 02:28 AM, 11-13-15
• Great thoughts and insight!,Flowerpower1, 08:48 AM, 11-13-15
• ReWatched episode 8 observations...,Flowerpower1, 01:23 PM, 11-13-15
  • RE: ReWatched episode 8 observations...,Georganna, 02:08 PM, 11-13-15
    • RE: ReWatched episode 8 observations...,Flowerpower1, 04:03 PM, 11-13-15

They probably didn't split the vote because they felt confident no one had the idol since none had come out at the merge. Also, like you said, they probably voted for Kelley partly because they figured Ciera was the obvious target.

I don't know if anyone tipped Kelley but she realized she was the target as soon as Wiglesworth and Joe told them that Stephen was a no go.

What I'd like to know is why they didn't go after Jeremy. Savage had shown an inclination to vote against Stephen so they should have kept him. They figured somebody had a deeper connection with Stephen and who could that be of not the guy that killed the plan to boot him, the guy that had been with Stephen for 20 days? Maybe they figured that having the Joe/Stephen tension was enough and that without Savage, Joe was more likely to make a move.

It's so obvious that Jeremy, Tasha, Stephen and Kimmi are working together and running the show that it would be good for Joe and Keith to jump over to the girls. You even have to wonder what Spencer is doing giving them his vote. He got a lucky break that Savage was eliminated, weakening the core alliance but still, he should be looking for a better deal. Maybe he's just happy that he can skate by for a while. Once Joe is gone, Spencer seems like the most rounded challenge competitor. He's been close to Joe both times so skating along with Jeremy's alliance for now could work out for him.

LAST EDITED ON 11-13-15 AT 01:08 AM (EST)

>I can't help but feel someone tipped Kelley off, AND, someone honed in on her as the boot target. Not once was her name mentioned.

Actually, Jeremy did say "I just think we should take out Wentworth or Ciera..." after finding out talk was centered around getting Fishbach out.

I don't think it required a big tip off to Wentworth as it was clear to her, Ciera and Abi that they were at the bottom - and they mentioned it before going to TC. Wentworth knew it was either her or Ciera most likely so she played a 50/50 bet to save herself by using the idol.

Someone on twitter ask Jeremy. Who would he rather have lost between Savage or Fishbach. Jeremy said Savage. So I found that interesting.

Also about alliances. I think the alliances could go.

Jeremy, Tasha, Stephen, Kimmi

Abi, Kelley, and Ciera

Joe and Keith have two places they could go at. They would be in the minority to whichever alliance they go to.

( You could say that Joe could beat all girls in challenges, but I'm not so sure. But we do know he's not teaming with Stephen. I also believe Joe warned Kelley or someone of the group about the vote. )

Spencer I think will go with Tasha and Jeremy.

( They didn't show us Spencer bonding with Jeremy for nothing and also he have a good relationship with Tasha. I also believe he might be Jeremy's right hand man since Savage is gone. )

Kelly to me could go anywhere. We see her with the 3 witches the last episode, but who knows how close her relationship with Kimmi is.

I also never seen Keith listen to Joe about who to vote. I think others just put them together because they were aligned since the beginning. But I do think they might stick together and join the Witches Coven.

So basically I see things playing out as

Jeremy + Tasha + Kimmi + Stephen + Spencer

vs

Ciera + Abi + Kelley + Joe + Keith

With Kelly as the swing vote.

I think whoever goes next will determine the rest of the game.

Also do you think the advantage in the game will be a hidden immunity idol or do you think it will be an extra vote at tribal council?

>Why on Earth didn't they want to split this vote, 5/4? They would still have had enough votes for either option?

From what I heard from Dalton Ross interview with Savage is that. They were too tired and that splitting the vote cause too much work.

Also Jeremy on twitter was ask the same question and he said. He wanted someone else to step up and that he didn't want to cause any waves.

So I think they all just went with 1 name instead of telling people who to vote for and remembering everything.

OT but I love when Natalie change her vote and voted out Alec instead of Keith to her advantage.

“as soon as Wiglesworth and Joe told them that Stephen was a no go” ~ Thanks for this piece of information, I missed it!

Here are reason I can name as to why they didn’t go after Jeremy:
1. They didn’t like Savage. Ciera didn’t like him, probably held him accountable for Kass leaving, and Savage threw out Ciera’s name.
2. Wentworth had a prior relationship with Jeremy, thought they could work with him more?
3. I do think Spencer and Wentworth have a good working past. Spencer is solidly with Jeremy as well.
4. Savage more unreasonable, more controlling?

Pepe: Thanks, I am always so focused on typing that I must have missed that statement by Jeremy! So, Jeremy did suggest Kelley or Ciera! Clearly, he had the most clout then, because he was the one that persuaded them all to do it.

Rembrandt:

"Someone on twitter ask Jeremy. Who would he rather have lost between Savage or Fishbach. Jeremy said Savage. So I found that interesting."

I got that impression, 100%. That’s why I question if Jeremy was in on it, getting them all to vote without splitting votes, and throwing them all on Kelley?

I also love how we are breaking down voting factions, and I agree with you all! Jeremy/Tasha/Stephen/Kimmi ~ Spencer ~ Kelly
Joe/Keith
Ciera/Kelley/Abi

I totally see Jeremy at the core of Tasha/Stephen/Kimmi. I see Spencer trying his hardest to attach to this group. As Rembrandt noted, we saw how hard Spencer tried to bond with Jeremy, and we were shown it for a reason. I also think that Kelly will stay with this group as well. She’s been with Spencer since the onset, and I think she is with him, and I also think that she’s solidly with Kimmi.

Then, there is Joe and Keith. Keith is with Joe, 100%. They have voted with the majority, Bayon’s, for the last two votes. Joe KNOWS that he’s toast as soon as he doesn’t win immunity. Joe does have a connection to Kelly/Ciera, so he does have a choice. Joe/Keith could swing either way. I think his best hope, like most of you see, is to go with the girls, and try to pull one more in.

So, it’s interesting to ponder, if Joe/Keith/Kelley/Ciera/Abi align, who would they most likely pull in to vote with them? AND, who would they most likely choose to target?

I could see their group still targeting Stephen, as Joe knows he’s after him. But, I agree with michel, they should be targeting Jeremy. I think Kelly would be a good one to try to pull in, or Spencer. But, I don’t think Spencer will budge. And, Kelly has been shown to be pretty loyal as well. Thoughts?

*Yes, Jeremy directed that vote away from Stephen by suggesting Wentworth or Ciera.

*Joe and Kelly told Ciera and Wentworth that Stephen vote was off the table, and when Wentworth said, it's me, isn't it? He said he didn't know.

*Apparently, Kelly Wigle seems to be with Joe now! This makes a HUGE difference. If Kelly is with Joe, as she seemingly was in episode 8, then Joe/Keith/Kelly could flip to the witches, and target one of the majority alliance.

*Last week, when the girls were talking in the shelter, Wentworth/Ciera/Abi, they were ONLY considering voting for Fishbach or Savage. So, if they got out Savage this week, it stands to reason if they got their way, they WOULD take out Stephen next week. It is also a ploy to SWAY Joe to work with them THIS week to take out his nemesis, Stephen.

*I have NO idea why they wouldn't consider taking out Jeremy?

LAST EDITED ON 11-13-15 AT 04:40 PM (EST)

*Apparently, Kelly Wigle seems to be with Joe now! This makes a HUGE difference. If Kelly is with Joe, as she seemingly was in episode 8, then Joe/Keith/Kelly could flip to the witches, and target one of the majority alliance.

Jeff Probst introduced Episode Eight's Reward Challenge with a reminder of the tie between group rewards and stragegic realignments. That reminder was followed by four - Stephen's, Ciera's, Joe's and, most importantly, (again) Stephen's - Confessionals focused exclusively on the same subject. And the coverage of the Reward itself was so thick with content and comment that could be construed as foreshadowing/symbolism that you could cut it with a knife. To include Keith's 1) We're off! 2) We need passengers 3) ... with my buddies and 4) Just call me up, I'll come get you! And the climactic helicopter shot of Joe in the vulnerable - rear-guard - spot.

So, while I'm not suggesting that Keith becomes anything more than the honorary chairman/chauffeur of the group, I do think that it is possible that a new voting bloc of Ciera, Joe, Kelley, Kelly and Keith (+ the absent Abi-Maria) was formed during that outing.

And not only did Kelly appear to be paying very close - affirming - attention to Ciera's pitch, she also appeared to be the Cafe patron most excited by the prospect of Keith's *spontaneous little adventure. Too, she was the very first passenger to board the Tuk Tuk Tour.

I've excluded Kimmi because, although she was also paying close attention to Ciera, everything about Jeremy's ally's body language said that she wasn't drinking anything other than Iced Coffee that afternoon.

* And wasn't it convenient that the prop - the Tuk Tuk - that was essential to the most dramatic incidence of symbolism that day was right there. Gassed to go ...

YES! All astute observations, G. And, when Stephen was whining about not going on the reward and them bonding together, Jeremy was shown suddenly perking up and interrupting, and said with a mouth full of food, "Oh! You think they are bonding over there?"

That moment was priceless!

Yes, that is the way I am seeing it as well.