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"Survivor #28 (Babies Bawl: Bleh...) Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Estee on 05-14-14 at 05:26 PM
Do you get the feeling Jeff is starting to run out of pointless teases? Here's what he pretty much had for this episode: Immunity is important.

...really?

You mean the show isn't introducing a twist where if you win Immunity, you're automatically voted out? Because, you know, that would be Shocking! It would be a Truly Shocking Twist! And isn't that one of Jeff's favorite things? To do something which has Never Happened Before? Get the necklace and an instant free pass to the jury! Imagine the ratings!

...well, yes, it pretty much destroys one of the last foundations of the show and no contestant would ever want to play for Immunity again just in case it happened twice, leading to future seasons where everyone threw everything each time, totally ruining the show forever. But Jeff's been trying to do that for the last few seasons anyway, so what's your point?

You know what doesn't happen tonight? Besides anything actually interesting? Tony doesn't win that still-good Immunity, setting up a real chance at a triple play. Because if we had a scenario where he gave away the necklace to one ally, played the hand grenade idol for a second, and then used the landmine on himself, Jeff would have been trumpeting it to the skies since the day after filming ended. So Tony doesn't win Immunity. I'm not betting that, but I like the odds.

It's still safe to win it. Promise.

For now...

Table of contents
Messages in this discussion
"RE: Survivor #28 (Babies Bawl: Bleh...) Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by dabo on 05-14-14 at 07:42 PM
Three immunities at F5, yip-hohum. Just think, had some HIIs not been played earlier or killed by the boot -- there could have been FIVE!

Maybe they would finally get around to booting Propst.

"RE: Survivor #28 (Babies Bawl: Bleh...) Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Brownroach on 05-14-14 at 08:05 PM
The Ballad of Tony and Spencer.

Spencer is miffed at Woo and Kass. He says his only hope is that the other players besides Tony are so stupid.

Woo is spilling the beans to Tony about the Kass/Spencer/Woo discussion.


"RE: Survivor #28 (Babies Bawl: Bleh...) Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Estee on 05-14-14 at 08:05 PM
Kass lies for fun and burns no bridges whatsoever.

So many votes coming her way.

Meanwhile, the editing admits Spencer exists. Poor Spencer.

And Woo cannot play the game. At all. So Tony preps to blindside him.

Such quality casting.

"RC"
Posted by Brownroach on 05-14-14 at 08:13 PM
Dive into mud pit, come back and scrape it into bucket. Most mud in bucket wins. Prize is pizza delivered at camp.

Mud splatters on the camera. Tony's bucket is overflowing with mud. So to speak. He wins. He chooses "Anorexia" to share the pizza. She makes unintelligible noises of gratitude.

"RE: RC"
Posted by dabo on 05-14-14 at 08:15 PM
Ah, the classic mud chal from S1, whole lot of fun.

Surprised he didn't pick Woo so they could both go into the IC strong, but Skeletor certainly needs the chow.

"RE: Survivor #28 (Babies Bawl: Bleh...) Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Estee on 05-14-14 at 08:13 PM
The overhead shot of the mud pit is vaguely phallic.

And we all know there's a family member delivering the pizza. Comforts of home.

Kass is a living art sculpture? Oh, mobile piece of carp!

Least sexy challenge ever?

Tony wins. No one bothers counting the results. Because it's Tony.

Tony picks Trish to eat something. Kass vows to kill his children.

"RE: Survivor #28 (Babies Bawl: Bleh...) Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 05-14-14 at 09:07 PM
It's a good thing that Uncle Cliffy wasn't still in the game - he might have overflowed that bucket on the very first try. Ditto for Morgan, perhaps.
"RE: Survivor #28 (Babies Bawl: Bleh...) Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Estee on 05-14-14 at 08:22 PM
Okay, I sit corrected. No family visit. Jefra lied or was lied to. Cheap show.

Kass is forgiven. And vows to commit carpet bombing.

Kass sees the world through Faux-colored glasses.

"RE: Survivor #28 (Babies Bawl: Bleh...) Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Outsider32 on 05-14-14 at 08:26 PM
I'm not watching after the IC. Kass might be a goner idk.
"Post RC"
Posted by Brownroach on 05-14-14 at 08:23 PM
Kass says Tony and Trish are obviously in control. Spencer points out the same thing. Tony tells Trish he has both idols. Confessional Tony is going to lie and say the special idol is good until F4.

He needs to make a plan with Kass. He tells her he knows about the plan from Woo. Kass confronts Woo. Woo denies it. Then Kass reconfronts Tony in front of Woo. Tony says he and Kass are done.

"RE: Post RC"
Posted by dabo on 05-14-14 at 08:24 PM
So, what is your favorite feature about Tony, his ADD or his short-term memory loss?
"RE: Post RC"
Posted by Brownroach on 05-14-14 at 08:39 PM
His shoulder tattoo?
"RE: Post RC"
Posted by dabo on 05-14-14 at 09:41 PM
He talked about needing to get Spencer out of the game, about needing to blindside Woo, and then he had it out with Kass about her no-no. In the end he voted to boot Trish.
"RE: Post RC"
Posted by Brownroach on 05-15-14 at 00:27 AM
Considering all the angles. He's my kind of guy.
"RE: Survivor #28 (Babies Bawl: Bleh...) Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Brownroach on 05-14-14 at 08:30 PM
Kass wants to screw up Tony's game. She will pull in Woo and Spencer, presumably to get rid of Trish. They discuss. But Spencer knows he still needs immunity.
"RE: Survivor #28 (Babies Bawl: Bleh...) Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Outsider32 on 05-14-14 at 08:31 PM
Idk if it will pay off he could give it to Trish
"IC"
Posted by Brownroach on 05-14-14 at 08:37 PM
Untangle rope, release key. Get ladder rungs, climb up, same thing again, then do slide puzzle.

Tony in the lead.

Spencer in second place.

Tony having trouble on the puzzle.

Spencer wins!

Tony says this was his worst case scenario.


"whew!"
Posted by dabo on 05-14-14 at 08:40 PM
The finale would have been a big drag without Spencer still in it.

Now watch Tony try to play the special idol to strip Spencer of the IN.

"RE: IC"
Posted by Estee on 05-14-14 at 08:43 PM
And now, a moment of comedy while they all wonder why they should trust each other this time.

Trish calls Kass out with total accuracy. It will make no difference.

"Three stooges."
Posted by Estee on 05-14-14 at 08:44 PM
Woo-woo-woo-woo-woo...
"Post IC"
Posted by Brownroach on 05-14-14 at 08:46 PM
Spencer is happy, duh. He will enjoy the cannibalizing. Time for the Trish/Kass argument. Now Trish is the mouthy one. Kass calls her Skeletor.

Kass and Spencer scheme to get Woo back in. Woo is being, er, wooed by everyone. Woo looks blank. But he thinks Tony will save Trish over himself. So he tells Kass he will vote out Trish. But Kass says Woo has waffled before.

Woo isn't handling this well. He may be in trouble.

"RE: Post IC"
Posted by Estee on 05-14-14 at 08:48 PM
Kass and Woo: the Waffle House couple.

"Rule #5"
Posted by Estee on 05-14-14 at 08:47 PM
Swing votes swing. From ballot nooses.
"RE: Survivor #28 (Babies Bawl: Bleh...) Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Estee on 05-14-14 at 08:50 PM
How can anyone survive as a lawyer with no capability for counter-argument?
"RE: Survivor #28 (Babies Bawl: Bleh...) Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Outsider32 on 05-14-14 at 08:52 PM
Is she the target?
"RE: Survivor #28 (Babies Bawl: Bleh...) Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Estee on 05-14-14 at 08:55 PM
If only.
"TC"
Posted by Brownroach on 05-14-14 at 08:55 PM
Tony calls Spencer a challenge beast.

Kass says Trish unleashed on her back at camp. Trish says Kass has fought with everyone.

Woo seems to be waffling again, saying Kass and Spencer are the two brains.

Tony and Kass argue. Spencer feels like he's in One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest. Woo feels like a foreign exchange student.

Tony is now wearing the special idol.

Time to vote

Spencer votes for Trish
Trish votes for Kass

Tony plays his regular HII.

Trish
Kass
Trish
Trish is out.

"RE: Survivor #28 (Babies Bawl: Bleh...) Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Estee on 05-14-14 at 08:55 PM
And Tony protects... no one. He could have sent Kass home and didn't.

Mistake?

"RE: Survivor #28 (Babies Bawl: Bleh...) Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Brownroach on 05-14-14 at 08:57 PM
LAST EDITED ON 05-14-14 AT 09:02 PM (EST)

I don't think so. He wanted to protect himself, and keep the Special Idol as a bluff. Plus, as it turned out he voted for Trish himself. He must think Kass is the bigger goat.

"RE: Survivor #28 (Babies Bawl: Bleh...) Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Murphy3126 on 05-14-14 at 09:44 PM
I sure thought it was dumb for Tony not to protect Trish. I think he would win at FTC against anyone but Spencer. If he'd just stayed with Woo instead of wanting to blindside him, & not worried about a few votes, I think he would be the winner. But I thought I saw Tony vote Trish!???! It will be interesting to see if his strategy works.
"RE: Survivor #28 (Babies Bawl: Bleh...) Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Brownroach on 05-14-14 at 11:49 PM
LAST EDITED ON 05-15-14 AT 00:11 AM (EST)

Trish won't know that Tony voted for her since there was an unread vote (unless she memorized everyone's handwriting -- I don't know whose vote Jeff didn't reveal).

It was smart for Tony to vote for Trish in any case, knowing that three votes revealed would get her out and that he couldn't be certain how Woo would vote.

"AWESOME!"
Posted by dabo on 05-14-14 at 08:57 PM

Congrats!
kingfish
Murphy3126
Round Robin
and Georganna


"RE: AWESOME!"
Posted by Brownroach on 05-14-14 at 09:04 PM
Yes, congrats.

That was a very good episode, imo. Very well-edited.

"RE: AWESOME!"
Posted by Georganna on 05-15-14 at 09:27 AM
Thank you ...
"Next time"
Posted by Brownroach on 05-14-14 at 08:59 PM
Tony cries, Kass thinks she needs to be someone's mama, Woo will burn the place down.

BTW, Tony voted for Trish as well.

"RE: Next time"
Posted by michel2 on 05-14-14 at 09:06 PM
LAST EDITED ON 05-14-14 AT 09:08 PM (EST)

That was surprising but, I think, very smart. Like Woo, she was well liked by the jury, but unlike the martial artist, she can't help win the immunity challenge. And like Sandra said about Rupert, Tony knows she will vote for him in the end. Her place had to be on the jury.

"RE: Next time"
Posted by Brownroach on 05-14-14 at 09:14 PM
I don't quite get the negativity toward Tony. I think he's one of the best players ever.
"RE: Next time"
Posted by michel2 on 05-14-14 at 09:25 PM
I'm not negative about Tony at all. I find him very entertaining. He's a good player but "one of the best ever" is stretching it. His social game is, at best, adequate, his challenge play is lacking and even his strategy is much too feverish. Don't forget his "Top Five, Baby!" Without a dumba$$ like Kass to give him the numbers, he'd have been toast soon after the merge.
"RE: Next time"
Posted by Brownroach on 05-14-14 at 11:24 PM
I didn't mean you.
"RE: Next time"
Posted by dabo on 05-14-14 at 09:45 PM
He plays hard and manages to annoy the other players. He ain't no Robfodder, that's for sure. Very few people can pull off a totally mean strategy and still be well liked.
"RE: Next time"
Posted by Jims03 on 05-14-14 at 10:24 PM
LAST EDITED ON 05-14-14 AT 10:28 PM (EST)

Good point about the comparison to Rob Mariano. A lot of people like comparing Tony to Russell, but he has a certain charisma that is a little more Mariano-esque.

For me, I think the key difference between the two of them is that Rob was able to keep everyone from not talking to each other because everyone was always on the same page. Even when they would blindside someone from their own alliance (hello, Matt), the whole alliance would know about it. So people never felt the need to compare notes.

Whereas Tony is insistent on keeping people out of the loop for his plans (mainly Kass), so all of his further plans get messed up. Tonight's vote really didn't have to be this complicated. Just get out Woo and be done with it.

What's Kass going to do at Final 4, get back with Spencer?

"RE: Next time"
Posted by Murphy3126 on 05-14-14 at 11:44 PM
I've thought for quite a while that Tony was trying to emulate Boston Rob, but comes off more like Russell. He's somewhere in between, less than either, but with Russell, that's a good thing!
"RE: Next time"
Posted by Brownroach on 05-14-14 at 11:22 PM
But where is the evidence that he has been annoying other players? What makes you think he isn't liked? Woo likes him. Spencer likes him. Trish likes him. LJ liked him. We haven't heard a single contestant say they didn't like him personally. Well, Kass, but she hates everyone.

And what is "mean" about his strategy? Who has he been "mean" to? Sarah? She was an indecisive fool who deserved to get voted out.

Rob had to play FOUR TIMES in order to win. Tony will have to play only once.

"RE: Next time"
Posted by dabo on 05-15-14 at 00:43 AM
The "evidence" such as it is in the exit interviews with the players that have gone to the jury.

As for the "mean" think back to boot cycle #2 in the premiere this season, why did Garrett get the boot? He tried to exercise so much control in his tribe that 3 of 4 Brains resented that he wouldn't let them play the game.

That is exactly what Tony wishes he could do, and he resents it whenever anyone in his alliance does anything outside his wishes. He is power mad, and incapable of hiding it.

Now think back to Mariano his fourth time out the gate when he was finally able to employ his Godfather fear-based strategy, which was the absolutely meanest game ever. He exercised total control of his sheep, they had to do exactly what he wanted or they got punished. Early on he booted the players in his tribe who tried to play the game, or who acted outside his control. Come the merge he insisted that the other tribe be treated as pariahs and he got his way. Andrea, the one member of his tribe who wasn't totally under his spell, was totally blocked from getting her game going. And Phillip only lasted as long as he did because he decided early on to play the goat, and really Mariano didn't need to take him to the end in order to win. Because Mariano understood enough of psychology to keep his own distance from his "mean," to be respected and well liked.

Tony is a fumbling bum in comparison, and is damn lucky to have a Kass to take to the end.

"RE: Next time"
Posted by Brownroach on 05-15-14 at 00:56 AM
LAST EDITED ON 05-15-14 AT 01:01 AM (EST)

I... don't...think we are watching the same program.

First of all, exit interviews (which I admit I have not been paying attention to) notoriously do not reflect what jurors were thinking at the time, they reflect their thoughts after watching the show.

Second, why compare Tony's game to Rob's at all? As you basically pointed out, they are totally dissimilar. What makes you think Tony is trying to imitate Rob? He is playing with different contestants, who aren't happy to behave like sheep, as those cast in Rob's fourth attempt were. Why not compare Tony to Tina Wesson? WTF?

"RE: Next time"
Posted by dabo on 05-15-14 at 01:35 AM
Don't get me wrong, I totally think Tony is playing hard and deserves to win against anyone but Spencer.

And, yes, each player in every game has to deal with the hand he-or-she is dealt. Which makes every game different, provided they don't bring back a whole tribe of returnees.

Trish was probably Tony's greatest FTC threat after Spencer, she had a great game going. I respect that.

What I do not respect is that he is a fumbler. Tony has no finesse, he is all surface and no subtlety. AND as much as I respected Tina her win in S2, it was only because Colby told Jerri to pizz off. He probably would have won had he gone after her vote, but he didn't.

"RE: Next time"
Posted by Brownroach on 05-15-14 at 02:38 AM
I should have said Tina or any other past winner. Because I don't see the point of these comparisons.

How someone who has voted in all their respective TC appearances against every eliminated contestant can be considered to be fumbling, I don't understand.

"RE: Next time"
Posted by dabo on 05-15-14 at 03:13 AM
The point of these past comprtisons
is simply that Tony does not measure up.

He relies on the surface game, he has no subtlety./

"RE: Next time"
Posted by Brownroach on 05-15-14 at 10:04 PM
I don't know what you mean by the "surface game". The game is the game. And why is subtlety required to make one a good player? I hardly think Boston Rob was subtle.
"RE: Next time"
Posted by dabo on 05-16-14 at 10:29 AM
I simply mean that Tony plays the game like it is scored, like there is an objective, as if there is a board and the idea is that whoever exercises the most amount of power and control on that board merits the win. Survivor doesn't really work that way most of the time, he cannot simply walk into FTC and present his scorecard and say "crown me."

Rob's Godfather game in RI was fear-based and tremendously mean, but he understood that those things could lose him the game in the end so he did things to mitigate the situation in-game. He kept his minions happy, he didn't boss people around as much as he could have, he didn't walk around like he ruled the island, he kept as much distance as possible between himself and being perceived as mean and cruel. He made no threats. He was fortunate to have Phillip in camp to take a lot of the heat, even though that made extra damage control work for Rob himself. He didn't even need to take Phillip to the end to win the game, his two surviving minions at the end were simply being rewarded for having done the most to help his game.

Almost anyone else trying to play the game of Survivor on the basis of Rob's Godfather game is bound to mess it up, it takes a particular skill-set that Mariano understood. Phillip didn't understand it when he tried to follow his own Bostonrob Rulebook, Tony doesn't understand it either.

"RE: Next time"
Posted by Georganna on 05-16-14 at 08:10 PM
LAST EDITED ON 05-16-14 AT 09:21 PM (EST)


Almost anyone else trying to play the game of Survivor on the basis of Rob's Godfather game is bound to mess it up, it takes a particular skill-set that Mariano understood. Phillip didn't understand it when he tried to follow his own Bostonrob Rulebook, Tony doesn't understand it either.


Amen!

I would add:

Skill-sets derived from native personality traits are always more effective than those imported for the occasion from abroad. In other words, it is not only that Phillip and Tony don't understand Rob Mariano's approach to the Game on an intellectual level. Or even that Rob Mariano does.

If he does.

It is, more basically, that Rob is intrinsically comfortable and naturally proficient with those innate social skills. And Phillip and Tony are not.

Nor should they be expected to be. Nor should they try to be.

For instance:

Generally, Capricorn (Rob) are much more adept at compartmentalization and much more goal-driven than are Sagittarius (Tony). Sagittarius, on the other hand, have a much more developed (and, in Survivor, a much more cumbersome) sense of sportsmanship. So, having done the same nefarious in-game deed, Tony will appear to others to be much more guilty of wrongdoing than will Rob. Because Tony will feel much more guilty of wrongdoing than will Rob.

And this, I thought, was so on point:

I simply mean that Tony plays the game like it is scored, like there is an objective, as if there is a board and the idea is that whoever exercises the most amount of power and control on that board merits the win. Survivor doesn't really work that way most of the time, he cannot simply walk into FTC and present his scorecard and say "crown me."

Because Tony, I think, does see Survivor as a Game. With a scorecard. And he has outwitted, outplayed (and may well outlast) every other player in it, save the one sitting beside him.

While Rob sees it as a Project. With expendable corporate staff invested in its (his) success, a completion date and a looming vote of confidence.

Both, though, approach the experience with an infectious enthusiasm for the process. And I love that.

...

For quite some time, each new Season has brought with it a version of Jeff Probst's' mantra that Survivor is an environment that very quickly and - most critically to the success of the franchise - entertainingly exposes its players' native personalities and behaviors: that it is virtually impossible for them to conceal or escape 'self ' in the venue.

"We are who we are, he has come to realize" - Alex Strachan (Vancouver Sun in March of 2009)


Jeff Probst: “You can try to (suppress) that, but eventually your true nature will win out — especially when you’re deprived of food and energy and you’re out in the open, trying to figure out a way to get along with people you don’t know if you can trust. We all have our set reactions, and that’s hard to (suppress). If I’m a born leader, it’s hard for me to take a back seat. If I’m a follower by nature, it’s hard for me to lead"

...

Tony: Survivor Contestant You Are Most Like – “Russell Hantz, because I can be just as devious. Boston Rob, because I can be just as slick.”

...

Note: Capricorn is the Sun Sign most frequently cast. As a percentage of their total number, its natives reach the Final Four more frequently than do the natives of any other Sign. And Capricorn have won more Seasons (5) than has any other Sign.

The Capricorn Sole Survivors are:

Tina Wesson
Tom Westman
Rob Mariano
John Cochran
and
Denise Shapley


"RE: Next time"
Posted by Brownroach on 05-16-14 at 09:52 PM
LAST EDITED ON 05-16-14 AT 09:53 PM (EST)

Survivor doesn't really work that way most of the time, he cannot simply walk into FTC and present his scorecard and say "crown me."

Well I bet he can, considering his competitors and the way this game has unfolded.