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"S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Brownroach on 11-02-11 at 03:08 PM
Will Oscar give an Academy Award™-worthy performance at Redemption Island? We shall find out tonight. The latest promo suggests that his technical prowess is less than Streepian, since he barely finishes reciting his first line of dialogue before Albert flatly declares “I don’t buy it.” Too bad Oscar missed out on last week’s reward: an Adam Sandler movie is always a veritable master class in the art of believable acting.

As always please keep discussion of the proceedings contained within this thread until the show has aired on the west coast.

*** In memory of vince3 ***

Table of contents
Messages in this discussion
"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 11-02-11 at 03:32 PM
I dunno about "Streepian" but I'll give him "Creepian".
"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Estee on 11-02-11 at 04:08 PM
I think Cochran's about to hold a master's class in that field.
"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Belle Book on 11-02-11 at 05:06 PM
LAST EDITED ON 11-02-11 AT 05:06 PM (EST)

I think the whole Upolu tribe is going to give Savaii a master's class in how to outsmart an opposing tribe, while Cochran will probably hold a master's class in the field of becoming a villain in the name of self-preservation. The last known holder of that master's class was Jonathan Penner.

Belle Book

"Previously on Survivor..."
Posted by Flowerpower on 11-02-11 at 08:04 PM
*My turn for the car pool tonight, so I'll be out early on this one....


Previously on Survivor....

Starts with the rainbow, on day 17 the tribes were even, Savaii lost the challenge and blamed Cochroach...Ozzy proposed a plan, at TC, he had a dream and he saw a chance to find his own redemption and had a plan for Cochroach to be a double agent, and he gave Cochroach his HII, now the question is can he win at the RI duel, and will there be a merge and can Cochroach become a master spy...

What a difference a day makes, Ozzy came down from the heavens and made this plan, if everything connects this will be one of the biggest moves in Survivor history....Cochroach says he was willing to go, Keith is giving him a hard time...he fights his own battles....He, Cochroach, is asking them, what do you want me to say about you when I go to the other side, to find out who the Upolu's want to vote out, he says he's the best one to be a double agent....he says if he has to play the villain he will, right now his philosophy is from Al Pacino, first you take out the arrogant returnee, then you take his idol, then you get the million dollars....

"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Brownroach on 11-02-11 at 08:04 PM
Cochran gets first confessional. He seems to be on Savaii's side. He will be the double agent.

Keith says Cochran should have stepped up. Cochran does a bad Al Pacino imitation.

"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Brownroach on 11-02-11 at 08:12 PM
Ooh a blurb that Jeff is tweeting!

Ozzy meets Christine. He is putting on his Actor Suit (giggle).

Duel time.

Ozzy and Cochran are pathetically bad actors. Their plan *should* fail after that performance. No one believed it.

Reaching for keyrings. How many times have we seen this? They are dragging it out for "suspense."

Ozzy has all keys. He wins.

"Post Intro...."
Posted by Flowerpower on 11-02-11 at 08:14 PM
At night at RI, Ozzy approaches...hello, hello, who is it? Ozzy....she says nice to meet you...what happened? Idol...what? Who had it, guess, Cochran...how did you know that, just listening to people...the little weasel...we all voted Cochroach, and he pulled out the idol....in confessional, I think she bought it...this is part of the plan, first get voted out, next getting her to believe me, then beating her...this is either the craziest thing I've ever done or the ballsiest...

The duel...both tribes arrive, Christine vs, Ozzy...here they are....Ozzy are you surprised to find yourself here? I gave them everything I have we lose because we have one person that can't operate a clip....it's one for one, but who ever sticks to gether, I thrive in the game, for revenge.

Use sticks to build a pole to retrieve keys, the winner of this duel will come back into the game, huge stakes...1 will get back, one goes home....go....first build a pole it needs to be long and strong to reach the keys....Christine is getting more out of her sticks, 2 different strategies...Christine will give it a go....but her stick breaks, Ozzy now gives it a go....Ozzy's is hanging on by the edge and it drops....Christine's is falling apart...Ozzy trying to hook his on the ground and he has it, this time staying on, he has his first key....Ozzy stretching out again, this pole just long enough...Coach keeps looking over, Ozzy has 3 keys, and Ozzy unlocks the locks....Ozzy wins the duel, they all clap except Cochran....Ozzy and Christine hug....Jim tells her, great run....after 19 days, your adventure has come to an end, she hugs Ozzy....goes out with grace....Ozzy as fast as you were out, you are back in....drop your buffs cause we are merged....Cochran goes to Uplou and shakes their hands, Ozzy gets a confessional that he hopes Cochran can infiltrate...

"RE: Post Intro...."
Posted by emydi on 11-03-11 at 10:01 AM
I like Christine. I wish she had gotten back in the game. Not against Ozzy but Cochroach
"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Brownroach on 11-02-11 at 08:14 PM
Christine says it was a good fawtieth birthday present. Ozzy back in the game, they merge. Jeff tosses Cochran the new buffs.
"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by jbug on 11-02-11 at 08:21 PM
Ozzy overplayed his part at the duel.
Coach sees right thru them.
"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Brownroach on 11-02-11 at 08:24 PM
LAST EDITED ON 11-02-11 AT 09:18 PM (EST)


Merge feast Day 19. Coach talking to Cochran. Cochran says Keith is mean to him. Coach tells Cochran they don't believe a single thing. He reads the situation exactly, says it can come down to drawing rocks. Then seduces Cochran with sympathy. Cochran spills everything, he is clearly in over his head. He is considering switching.

"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by jbug on 11-02-11 at 08:25 PM
ROFLOL!!!!!!!
this is funny!
"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 11-02-11 at 08:31 PM
I'd love to play poker against Cochran. He'd get cleaned out in no time at all with that poker face of his.
"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Brownroach on 11-02-11 at 08:37 PM
It was hilarious how fast he caved while in confessional he bragged about how perfect he was for the double agent job.
"Cochran's a student of --"
Posted by Estee on 11-02-11 at 08:32 PM
-- the casino game.

Oh, look. He just made a MaxBet. And lost.

"Post duel..."
Posted by Flowerpower on 11-02-11 at 08:34 PM
The march in and there is the feast....Dawn notes that she doesn't drink, they are all talking to each other, Jim gets the confessional, it's game on, it's sizx on six, everyone wants an in, and Coach talks to Cochran....he feels ilke it's a rebirth, C tells him this is where the game really begins....now it's time to work his magic and be the double agent he's born to be, and infiltrate the other tribe, treats me terribly, they hated me, strategically he's wondering if he's working with the right people....Coach says that he isn't buying it, you guys are playing us...Coach sees through it....here's the thing he says, our tribe isn't budging, you guys came up with a story, u sent Ozzy to RI, you have an idol in your pocket, it was a risk, we will not bend, and C says there is a one in 5 chance that there is a black rock and you and I will be pulling it....C says that he's been made fun of his whole life himself, he knows what it feels like when you are superior to others, and they know it...

C is an incredibly intelligent guy, he layed it all out on the table, I could make them all pull black rocks or jump ship and join Uplou....

Now he is telling Albert and Sophie that "Ozzy had a dream", I just don't want to be disloyal to my whole tribe, he is telling brandon that he's "supposed" to be gathering information. Keith is the most consistantly rude to me...Brandon is telling them that if he jumps ship he would outlast all of them....

He returned the HII back to him....he thinks he's a mastermind....up till now he's put his faith in the hands of tribemates that he doesn't trust and who don't respect him, now he's in control of his own fate, he gets to decide how Survivor South Pacific takes shape and eventually ends...

"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Brownroach on 11-02-11 at 08:34 PM
Cochran tells Dawn he doesn't want to face a tie. Dawn says she likes Cochran, she likes the new tribe better. They have always been on the outs. She may be switching too.

IC now.

New tribe name- Say Tuna?

Two winners male and female.

Challenge: hold up a coconut. Don't ask.

Edna and Cochran out.

Second round.

Whitney out. Sophie out. Dawn wins.

Coach out.

Rick out.

Jim out, Keith out.

Round three.

Brandon out.

Albert out.

Ozzy wins.

"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Estee on 11-02-11 at 08:40 PM
Challenge: hold up a coconut. Don't ask.

With what?

(I asked.)

"Challenge..."
Posted by Flowerpower on 11-02-11 at 08:44 PM
Back at camp....Day 21, Dawn says that he is voting with Savaii, but if there is a tie, he doesn't want to draw rocks....Dawn says that it's been you and me on the outs....Dawn in confessional, she's watched Cochran not been treated as a group...Dawn is crying, what is she worried about....but she feels that this group is alot nicer...she likes to see people stand up for what they believe in, she should have stood up for Cochran alot earlier....Cochran says that up until now his entire life has depended on others, he's grovelled to stay in the game, but now, I, and I think you too, can decide what course we are going to take. Dawn doesn't want the casualty to be Cochran...Dawn reads tree mail....

She doesn't like the way it's been going, even if she loses her footing in the game....sounds like she is going to flip too???

Challenge...Staytunna is the new tribe name???? WHATT?? Now it's individual immunity...today, 2 necklace's, 1 man and 1 woman...balance on a small perch while holding a coconut on a perch, if at any point your coconut drops or you fall off the perch you are out...hold ropes taught, can't hold it against your body, key is to keep balance, Edna is first one out, Cochroach next, first round done....see the hot sun....Ropes longer so more difficult to hold the coconut....Whitney is out...Sophie is out and Dawn is the winner for the women. The men Rick, Brandon, Ozzy, Albert, Keith, Coach...Coach drops his coconut first....Rick is out....Jim is out, then Keith, now it's Ozzy, Brandon, and Albert....next round, to longer ropes, go till there is a winner....one of the hottest days, brandon out, down to Albert and Ozzy....now just endurance, sweat pouring off them, Albert drops, Ozzy wins!

After 21 days someone going home

"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Brownroach on 11-02-11 at 08:45 PM
Oh the name is Te Tuna. So much better, heh.

Savaii names Sophie and Rick as targets. With Ozzy and Dawn immune, they predict that Upolu might vote for Whitney.

Cochran now telling Sophie the plan. Coach says they have to trust Cochran. No mention of Upolu's hii. Dawn is trying to talk Cochran out of switching.

"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Estee on 11-02-11 at 08:55 PM
Te Tuna

There's only one in the whole world. Or there was until Benji caught and ate it. It weighed ten thousand pounds and he ate it in the water while it was still alive, fighting back all the while.

I wanted to say it before he did.

"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Brownroach on 11-02-11 at 09:56 PM
But how does Linda Ronstadt figure in? Oh, I know -- she will record a song about the daring exploit, absurdly exaggerated written and orchestrated of course by Coachebag.

As for me, I will henceforth be calling this group Tribe Judy Tenuta.

"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by jbug on 11-02-11 at 08:56 PM
there is a weasel in the house

Lil'Hantz gonna protect him tho.

Why did they think Whitney might be the target?

"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Pretty_Kitty on 11-02-11 at 09:00 PM
Why Whitney? Becuase they arent as smart as they think they are. As for Lil Hantz good for him! Sticking up for John is the most christian thing he's done this whole game. I know Im in the minority but I cant stand the red tribe. Keith is a tool and im glad he's gone.
"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 11-02-11 at 09:15 PM
The idea was that they thought there was a good chance of the Upolus targeting the "weakest" of the Savai'is (other than Cochran) because if there's going to be a drawing of rocks, you theoretically want the weakest out of the way and hopefully having a strong guy pull the odd-coloured rock.

That's not a bad theory, actually...

"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by jbug on 11-03-11 at 03:31 PM
I understand that I think,
but if Coach's team had voted for Whitney, the Rick would be gone & there would be no pulling rocks, so...

It makes sense if there had not been an HII to play.

"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Brownroach on 11-02-11 at 09:16 PM
LAST EDITED ON 11-02-11 AT 09:20 PM (EST)

It's a fakeout strategy.

If Upolu believed that Savaii did in fact still have their idol (which Upolu did), it would be logical for Savaii to give it to an alpha male to play. But by second-guessing that, Upolu decides to vote for an "unassuming" female instead. But Savaii then third-guesses that Upolu will do exactly that, so they have the unassuming female play the idol.

Except that Savaii was very sadly wrong.

"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by kiki_k on 11-02-11 at 10:51 PM
John told Coach, Sophie & Albert that Ozzy was going to play the HII on Whitney, so Upolu knew all they had to do was choose between Jim & Keith & a tied 2nd vote was the worst case scenario if John didn't complete his flip on the re-vote.
"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by emydi on 11-03-11 at 10:11 AM
LAST EDITED ON 11-03-11 AT 10:47 AM (EST)

But if Cochroach was really a true student of the game he would have told Ozzy to give the dang HI to Keith. He told the Ups that Keith was the meanest so they tossed him that bone. He gets out of drawing the purple rock and becomes the hero to Savaii.

ETA: After reading Dalton Ross' recrap on EW...he made a good point..why didn't Dawn tell the rest of Savaii that Cochroach was flipping or at least thinking of flipping? They could have adjusted their HI handoff to Keith (only other option is Jim but they would go for strongest at that point so I would have given it to Keit altho hindsight is 20/20) because they would have to assume that Cochroach told the Ups (which he did) that Whitney was getting the HI

Instead, he cared more about who liked him and who didn't. Just awful survivor play. I don't think Cochroach goes next week but Cochroach should know the history of what happens to flippers.

Plus if he wants to win, he just alienated 5 out of the 9 jurors and if he's in the F3 it's with two Ups and the remaining 4 jurors will likely vote an Up to win.

This was not the time to play the "3 more days" strategy imo. It was long term play he should have been thinking about.

BTW, how is it decided the order of pulling the rocks from the bag? I can't recall S4 Marquesas. Poor Paschal. Because the first person to draw had 1-7 chance but the later people (if the purple rock is not drawn) has more of a chance to pick it, but they do have the chance they'll never have to draw if it's picked early.


"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Tummy on 11-03-11 at 11:06 AM
I think they all drew and then revealed at the same time. *I think*

Dawn was the dumbest player this week. She could have easily kept Savaii strong by letting Ozzy know that John was flipping and they would have played the idol differently. She's not out there to win a million.

I still say the biggest mistake was last week when they should have sent John.

"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Brownroach on 11-03-11 at 11:08 AM
This was not the time to play the "3 more days" strategy imo.

If you want to be absolutely certain you are not leaving the game via purple rock, it was.

the first person to draw had 1-7 chance but the later people (if the purple rock is not drawn) has more of a chance to pick it, but they do have the chance they'll never have to draw if it's picked early.

It was 1 in 8, not one in 7. And everyone has to pick a rock before they reveal, so the chances are the same for everyone.

"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by emydi on 11-03-11 at 11:40 AM
but who gets to pick first? They all reveal at same time but do they all put their hands in and fight for rocks? Bc if not the first person to pick still has more chances NOT to pick the purple rock.
"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by kiki_k on 11-03-11 at 12:10 PM
Don't open that kettle of fish. Just know that the principles of conditional probability when it comes to picking rocks that aren't replaced as they are picked are invalid because not seeing what rock each person picks until everyone picks magically gives everyone the same 1-8 chance.
"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 11-03-11 at 12:19 PM
It doesn't matter who picks first, emy. What matters is that there would have been eight of them standing in a line in front of Jeff, all with their arms stretched out at the same time while holding a rock in a fist.

That is where the 1-in-8 odds come from - it doesn't matter in which order the rock was picked, it's still the same 1-in-8 for everyone when they're waiting to reveal the rocks. Jeff says "reveal your rocks" and they all open their fists at the exact same time. One of these eight will have the odd-coloured rock. That's all there is to it.

"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Brownroach on 11-03-11 at 01:14 PM
(...reverting to the 1 in 7 chances as that apparently was correct, my bad)

Bc if not the first person to pick still has more chances NOT to pick the purple rock.

Look at it this way:

For picker 1 the odds are 6:1 that the purple rock will be picked by someone else.

For pickers 2 through 6, the odds are 6:1 that the purple rock either was already picked by someone else or will be picked by someone else.

For picker 7 the odds are 6:1 that the purple rock was already picked by someone else.

In short, everyone has the same chance of getting it, regardless of order.

"Probability vs. Odds"
Posted by parathor on 11-03-11 at 01:33 PM
Dr. Math explains it this way:

The probability of an event is defined as:

(Chances for)
P(x) = ---------------
(Total chances)

So, for example, the probability of drawing a purple rock in a bag of 7 rocks is 1/7 (or about 0.143 = 14.3%).

Odds, on the other hand, are given as:

(Chances for) : (Chances against)

Since (Total chances) = (Chances for) + (Chances against), we can calculate (Chances against) = (Total chances) - (Chances for). The odds of drawing a purple rock in a bag of rocks is 17-1) = 1:6.

Notice the difference in the second value; probability uses (Total chances), but odds use (Chances against). Incidentally, odds of 1:1 would be read as "one TO one", not "one OUT OF one." (The words "out of" seem to imply total chances, which is probability, not odds.)

"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 11-03-11 at 12:22 PM

>But if Cochroach was really a
>true student of the game
>he would have told Ozzy
>to give the dang HI
>to Keith. He told the
>Ups that Keith was the
>meanest so they tossed him
>that bone. He gets
>out of drawing the purple
>rock and becomes the hero
>to Savaii.

What makes you think Ozzy would have listened to Cochran there? And Cochran is supposedly now working for the Upolus so he did his job for them by directing the Upolu vote to Keith when it was decided that Whitney would receive the HII from Ozzy.

"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by emydi on 11-03-11 at 12:38 PM
I said C should have gone back at the end of it right before TC (hey, he could have taken Dawn for cover) and told Oz et al. what he did (telling Sophie they were giving HI to Whit) and switch it. Thereby avoiding the purple rock and staying w/Savaii. In the end I think that would have been a better play for C not what he did.

and shame on Dawn for not saying anything


"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Blind Freddy on 11-03-11 at 05:15 PM
LAST EDITED ON 11-03-11 AT 05:20 PM (EST)

It appears from the E8 Insider video transcripts that Jim *might* have been the one(in his opinion) to persuade Ozzy to give the HII to Whitney.

Jim(confessional): "I really believe the former Upolu tribe is going to vote for Whitney tonight. I convinced Ozzy and the rest of our tribe to give Whitney the immunity idol when it comes time...

As of right now, my impression is that both tribes that it is going to be a deadlock at the vote. It probably will be a 6-6 tie at the vote, and on the revote. So, by playing the immunity idol, we're getting 2 shots at increasing our chances. First of all, if we play the immunity idol for one of our members, we have a 25% chance that that's the person the former Ulong tribe will vote for. 4-in-1, and we've only got 4 people on the chopping block tonight in round 1. Me, Keith, Whitney, and Cochran. That's it. Those 4. We give Whitney the idol, and boom, I think we're gonna win it right then and there, because I think they're gonna vote for Whitney. Why?...

Because I believe, like my tribe, they have a willingness to go to rocks, and if we go to rocks, they want to have some of the stronger players in there. Me, and Keith. Cochran's a variable, because they probably wanna get rid of Cochran too, based on past seasons. That's my thought process on why they'll vote Whitney, because if it goes to rocks, Whitney becomes immune to rocks, and in their mind, they can get rid of Whit later. She's not gonna win any challenges, she's not in with anybody, she's just walking around, hanging out."

If indeed Jim was the determining factor in the choice then perhaps he 'deked' one too many times and out-thought himself...Eh?

"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Brownroach on 11-03-11 at 04:07 PM
But if Cochroach was really a true student of the game he would have told Ozzy to give the dang HI to Keith. He told the Ups that Keith was the meanest so they tossed him that bone.

But I think Upolu did not give Cochran any clue who they were going to vote for, so he couldn't trip things up by telling Savaii. Coach laid it out: we are going to force a tie, and if you don't do something, it will go to rock-picking. They were counting on Cochran to flip on the revote, after he saw who Upolu had voted for.

"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by emydi on 11-03-11 at 04:52 PM
but C told Ups that they were giving HI to Whit so change it up and give it to Keith (as the stronger of 2 of him/Jim) + he told them Keith was the meanest to him he could have surmised that they'd go after him

Try some other way to save Savaii and him from picking rock by trying to get Up out with the HI. just not good game play imho

"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Brownroach on 11-03-11 at 05:04 PM
I just read the Insider scenes and Upolu was trying to make Cochran as comfortable as possible (they'd even offered him final 4) and they were pretty confident that he was with them by the time TC rolled around. So maybe they did confirm to him that Keith was the target.

But by that time Cochran was probably pretty sure he wanted to flip, so he wouldn't have removed that option by reporting back to Savaii.

"TC"
Posted by Brownroach on 11-02-11 at 08:55 PM
Coach says there will be a tie vote. Ozzy says with two immunities it is in their favor. Jeff implies someone may flip.

Albert says Ozzy put on a Broadway show, Sophie says it was unbelievable. Now Ozzy says they have the idol.

No votes shown.

Ozzy plays hii on Whitney.

Keith
Keith
Keith
Keith
Keith
Keith
Rick
Rick
Rick
Rick
Rick
Rick

Tie! Revote.

Keith
Keith
Keith
Keith
Keith
Rick
Rick
Rick
Rick
KEITH IS OUT

Cochran says he swapped, he will explain. Jim calls him a coward.

"Double Immunity winners?"
Posted by Estee on 11-02-11 at 08:57 PM
*throws away the last scrap of the original rulebook*
"RE: Double Immunity winners?"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 11-02-11 at 09:19 PM
They've done that before. I recall Jane in Nicaragua winning immunity for the women then staying in the competition for the heck of it to beat Fabio who won for the men.
"RE: Double Immunity winners?"
Posted by Estee on 11-02-11 at 09:22 PM
Fair enough. I skipped that season -- I was still in the post-Hantz exposure recovery ward.
"RE: Double Immunity winners?"
Posted by michel on 11-02-11 at 10:45 PM
They also did it in Season 8.
"RE: Double Immunity winners?"
Posted by Estee on 11-02-11 at 10:52 PM
There never was a Season #8.

If I say it enough, it might come true.

"RE: Double Immunity winners?"
Posted by AyaK on 11-03-11 at 02:45 AM
Lucia and Carina Mariano are living proof that there was.
"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Brownroach on 11-02-11 at 09:00 PM
Next time all of Savaii metaphorically spit on Cochran. Jim wants to try to convince some of Upolu to vote him out, we see them talking to Albert and Sophie.
"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Flowerpower on 11-02-11 at 09:00 PM
See the old Savaii....They want to vote for Sophie or Rick....Ozzy is asking if they are all solid, we are going to rocks....is everyone ok with going to rocks? Now we see Upolu praying. Jim gets confessional, no one likes rocks but there is 4 of us on the chopping block and 6 of them...Jim thinks that they are going to vote for Whitney....Cochran says they may feel confident that we have a chance but I don't feel confident of pulling a rock out of a bag....Cochran is telling Sophie everything...he hopes your tribe, don't let me get eaten alive....Soiphie says she thinks that Cochran is going to flip over....he's afraid of getting beaten up if he switches, and goes to tell Coach...you can sleep right between me and edna or you can sleep next to Sophie if you want....he will be valued and loved over here, that the weak will become strong that the nerd will rise up to the bully...

Dawn says, what are you going to do...she won't say a thing...he doesn't know what is going to happen....Dawn is saying why would they watch over you? There promises don't mean anything...Cochran doesn't know whether to go with folks that are rude to him or jump tribal lines and cost me a million dollars....what goes around comes around...Cochran wants to take control of his game, Dawn says that he is giving in to his emotion...Dawn says that she has liked her tribe, but there are things that she loves about them, she wants to stay loyal, Ozzy says he's glad to be back in the fold...Dawn tells him that it's not right to flip, she doesn't want him to do it....it's selfish, he's only looking out for himself

TC...

Coach, it could be a tie tonight...we will put all the cards down tonight, 6 to 6
Ozzy is that right, yes....it will probably go to rocks and it will go to fate....
The only way to break up the tie is for somebody to defect....Edna says if there is one person that doesn't feel part of the group then maybe they could flip....Cochran ...Jim says that no one will flip from us, it doesn't make any sense....Albert says that Ozzy did his best broadway production, we'll see....Sophie was offended that the charade was over the top....Ozzy says he was right, I do have the idol, I was just trying to fight for my tribe to give us some form of an advantage, and if that's crap, so be it....

Time to vote, can't vote for Ozzy or Dawn....Rick is up....See all the Savaii first, then Cochran, Ozzy Dawn Keith Whitney, and Jim is last voter....

Vote tally...play the idol, Ozzy is playing it and giving it to Whitney....he hands it over to Jeff. Keith, Keith, Keith, Keith, Keith, Keith, Rich, Rick, Rick, Rick, Rick, Rick. They are tied. Revote, can only vote for Keith or Rick. Edna is first voter in the tie...

Keith, Keith, Keith, Keith, Keith, Rick, Rick, Rick, Rick, Keith....Cochran turns around and tells them that he flipped, Jim calls him a coward....Upolu is all smiles...Brandon says that's what you get for talking like that to him in the first place, as he grabs his shoulder, he tells Cochran to stay close to him.

"He admitted to flipping at Council?!?"
Posted by Estee on 11-02-11 at 09:04 PM
Welcome to sixth place, dumb@##.

"RE: He admitted to flipping at Council?!?"
Posted by Belle Book on 11-02-11 at 09:34 PM
Or seventh. Which he would've probably gotten if he'd stayed with Savaii, so he didn't lose anything there.

Ozzy was the world's worst actor! Nobody from Upolu believed him! That's why Coach was able to squeeze Cochran the way he did. Of course, Cochran wasn't much better.

Belle Book

"Next time on Survivor..."
Posted by Flowerpower on 11-02-11 at 09:07 PM
You totally screwed me over (Ozzy to Cochran), Jim: don't talk to me ever again, Whitney: You totally screwed me over, you threw the whole tribe under a bus, you disgust me!

Jim in confessional: I hope that I can get a couple of them to vote for Cochran...
Sophie in confessonal: Albert is thinking alot right now about switching up the game
Then we see Jim talking to Albert and Sophie
Sophie continues: and I think those are important things to think about...

Ozzy: Who knows what can happen in this game...

Ozzy looking at a rainbow, I'm never gonna give up as long as I live!

Keith says someone on my tribe flipped...can't be whitney, can't be Jim, can't be Dawn, can't be Ozzy....Cochran backstabbed all of us...

"RE: Next time on Survivor..."
Posted by Brownroach on 11-02-11 at 09:27 PM
LAST EDITED ON 11-02-11 AT 09:33 PM (EST)


I really hope Keith was being snarky and wasn't mentally considering everyone else before arriving at Cochran as the culprit. Because otherwise he's an idiot.

And as a footnote, did it look like Keith was suppressing laughter at Ozzy's monologue at RI? Perhaps that contributed to the colossal failure of the Big Plan?

"RE: Next time on Survivor..."
Posted by Estee on 11-02-11 at 09:35 PM
Ozzy just didn't have the benefit of Sugar's mad acting editing skillz.
"RE: Next time on Survivor..."
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 11-02-11 at 09:42 PM
This is the stupidest tribe in Survivor history, at least in my book.

Ozzy lets himself get voted out to Redemption Island (a dumb idea as far as I'm concerned) then does a terrible acting job, blurts out that he's got the idol not only to his own tribe (a dumb idea in the first place) then compounds it even further by being so quick to cave in and tell the Upolus that he's got the idol! Why?!?

Then there's Cochran, a massive walking gufu himself. Keith for possibly being dumb enough to wonder who might have backstabbed him and also for possibly giving things away with his suppressed laughter. Whitney for hanging around Keith. Dawn for not taking advantage of the opportunity presented to her (I might jump too if I knew I was on the outs of the main alliance and that Cochran was jumping as well). Jim for calling Cochran a coward in front of everyone else -- and further proving why Cochran had a case for jumping ship to the Upolus with his very public put-down from Jim.

"RE: Next time on Survivor..."
Posted by KObrien_fan on 11-02-11 at 10:18 PM
Not to mention that Upolu was watching the reactions at the RI challenge as Ozzy killed Christine. The Savai'i gave away then as well.

And why didn't Ozzy get the low down on Upolu from Christine? He could have gained intel from her as she has heard everyone's stories.


I'm not sure who came first hosting games, you or Tribe, but you are both nefarious! - CTGirl

"RE: Next time on Survivor..."
Posted by Brownroach on 11-02-11 at 11:26 PM
It was a good idea in theory but Savaii blew the execution. And the blame lies primarily with bad aspiring actor Ozzy, imo. Cochran didn't really have any room to maneuver after Coach shut him down.

I at least give Cochran credit for sticking with Savaii on the first vote. I could understand his train of thought as things progressed. I felt he was edited sympathetically overall tonight, which I wasn't expecting.

"RE: Next time on Survivor..."
Posted by SquidProQuo on 11-03-11 at 00:00 AM
>I felt he (Cochran) was edited
>sympathetically overall tonight, which I
>wasn't expecting.

BR, I totally agree. Even though I personally find the weasel to be disgusting, I felt he got a decent edit and the audience is supposed to be pulling for him as an underdog.

I'm also surprised that Coach is still getting a good/smart edit. Cochran's positive confessional about Coach was telling....similar to Cochran's previous confessional about middle-aged Ozzy. Coach must go far.

The rainbow with Ozzy at the end was interesting. Was there also one at the beginning of the show? Am I reading too much into the symbolism? Ozzy's quote that he wants someone from his tribe to win still seems to be important.

Overall a fun show tonight. Hoping for some cross-tribe maneuvering vs. a Pagonging.


"RE: Next time on Survivor..."
Posted by Flowerpower on 11-03-11 at 07:25 AM
And the blame lies primarily with bad aspiring actor Ozzy, imo. Cochran didn't really have any room to maneuver after Coach shut him down.
I at least give Cochran credit for sticking with Savaii on the first vote.

Did you really just say that? Dawn said it, Cochran's move was incredibly the most selfish move in history...sure you can argue that it's an individual game, but here are the odds that Cochran didn't like....since the two that are voted for don't pull the rock it would have been 2/7 chance, whereas every Upolu had a 5/7 chance. If Cochran would have held firm, odds are that his stock would have risen immensely within his tribe....The odds were in their favor. Cochran says they picked on me, they were bully's....oh come on, it was clear every week that he was the worst at challenges. In my opinion they gave him far more time than he deserved. He's a whiner, a complainer, he has no original thought, and he has, pathetically, no confidence in anything. He's one lucky little weasel. Pathetic, he did affect how the game will be played but the others never threw him under the bus, and they risked their game for him. There is only one person to blame, no matter how bad at acting they all were....Cochroach.

"RE: Next time on Survivor..."
Posted by parathor on 11-03-11 at 09:01 AM
Yes, 100x yes... Cochran should be bowing down before his tribe, thanking them for the extra time spent in the game. His number was punched weeks earlier, but the tribe saved him and sent Elyse. Then last week he was right to go home (he even said he should be the one to go, based on performance), but they sent Ozzy. Cochran has been granted at least 6 days, according to my calendar.

And it's not bullying if he's actually leading them to their death spiral.

Brandon is a tool. "Stick with me, man." If some punk 19-year-old said that to me when I was 24, I'd be like "dude, whatever." But I'm not Cochran.

"RE: Next time on Survivor..."
Posted by Corvis on 11-03-11 at 09:13 AM
LAST EDITED ON 11-03-11 AT 09:40 AM (EST)

I don't understand the hatred for Cochran. Incredibly selfish move? It's Survivor. Are you kidding? Why risk your life in the game to stay at the bottom of a 6 person alliance, when you can make a move securing your place through the Pagonging of your former tribe, giving you time to make inroads with the new tribe, find their weaknesses and exploit them? It was easily his best move.

Of course, he was bullied. Of course, he was treated terribly. he deserved it? What exactly did he do to deserve bullying? Did he hurt someone? What did he do besides not be great at challenges and be self conscious about his body?

"RE: Next time on Survivor..."
Posted by Tummy on 11-03-11 at 09:33 AM
I saw that move as incredibly stupid. He's now moved himself from a 6th, maybe 5th position in a tribe to a 7th position. The odds were in their favor on not pulling the rock.

I guess I'm not sure what bullying is because I've not seen any bullying on Savaii. Of course that might be editing. What I've seen is someone getting a dressing down for completely sucking at challenges. Anyone that sucked that bad would have gotten the same treatment, imo. But I guess as long as someone isn't scrawny and mousey then it isn't considered bullying.

They should have sent him to RI, where Christine would have beaten his butt. Christine would have happily joined up with Ozzy and someone that wants to play "poor, pitiful me" would have gone home.

"RE: Next time on Survivor..."
Posted by parathor on 11-03-11 at 11:21 AM
"What exactly did he do to deserve bullying?"
I guess I don't know how he was bullied. Keith said he should take ownership of his actions. Ozzy said that he was voting him out (several times). I hope that's not really bullying. There was no taunting, no stealing, no humiliation that was shown to us, other than "pressure" to "step up." Maybe he was bullied to participate in the various water adventures (swimming, sliding)?

If anything, Coach "bullied" him into saving himself (without Coach himself doing what he pressured Cochran into doing).

"What did he do besides not be great at challenges and be self conscious about his body?"
Besides costing his team at least one challenge? He flipped on a perfectly good plan, tossed out the goodwill (and reprieve) that the tribe gave him, and squandered a chance to become a "hero" and possibly final-3.

He also asked to be called by his last name (hubris), in order to be grouped with the other famous heroes of last-name infamy (before actually earning that "reward"). He claimed to be a student of the game, but he neglected to mention that he's a C+ student of the game (at best).

"It was easily his best move."
Perhaps his easiest move, but not his best move. He bought himself 3 more guaranteed days, but if he had risked everything on a 1-in-7 shot at the purple-rock, there was a 5-in-7 shot that his group (with him as the hero) would have been up 6-5... from there, it would be simple to pagong the other tribe, hook up with Jim & Dawn, convince Keith & Whitney to vote out Ozzy first, then take out Keith & Whitney. Bam, final 3 (barring anything crazy like Ozzy returning from RI a second time and winning a spot in the F3 and not taking the guy who helped make their tribe the winning tribe). The game respects big moves, and his was a small move.

It just brings back memories of Tyson not realizing his odds in the game.

Maybe I like my heroes to be in control, and my villains to be villainous. Cochran seems accidentally a villain... neither hero nor villain.

"RE: Next time on Survivor..."
Posted by emydi on 11-03-11 at 11:36 AM
Maybe I like my heroes to be in control, and my villains to be villainous. Cochran seems accidentally a villain... neither hero nor villain.

Good point. You've put into words my feelings about Cochroach. Thanks!

"RE: Next time on Survivor..."
Posted by Corvis on 11-03-11 at 05:10 PM
"I guess I don't know how he was bullied."

Well, Dawn thought he was treated badly by the tribe. Cochran thought he was treated badly. There were there; we weren't. I'll go with their assessments of the situation over yours.

My question was "What did he do to deserve bullying?" Your answer seems to indicate it's okay to bully someone who loses a challenge for the team. I disagree. As for flipping, a) it wasn't a perfectly good plan - it was one that could have lead to Cochran getting booted and b) he did that after so it doesn't relate to my question anyway.

It wasn't an easy move at all. He knew the fall out would be pretty bad, but he made a courageous move to get further in the game.

From the Insider, we learn that he made a final four deal with Albert, Sophie and Coach. No one on his tribe made him such a deal. Will they stick to the deal? Who knows? But why risk going out in 12th place and at best ending up 6th place when you can ensure that you stick around for three more days and potentially get 4th place?

He's not a hero or a villain - I agree with that. But I don't need my Survivor winners to be one of those two things. I want them to be good game players. Cochran hasn't always made the best moves, but this was definitely the best move he had at this stage of the game.

"RE: Next time on Survivor..."
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 11-03-11 at 05:21 PM
So what do you call the actions performed by Jim and Whitney, in particular, as shown in the previews for next episode? Verbal blasting with cuss words and put-downs, plus the repeated put-downs from Ozzy after the challenge last week and in front of everyone at Redemption Island in last night's episode.

These are all cases of bullying and haranguing towards Cochran.

"RE: Next time on Survivor..."
Posted by dabo on 11-03-11 at 07:03 PM
Bullying isn't the word I would use, at least not based on what we've been able to see on TV. But except during Ozzy's "free agent" tantrum the KewlKids (Ozzy, Keith, Whitney) always thought of themselves as the envied special superdooper elite. Keith in particular had a knack for never giving Cochran a break, putting him in his place, wouldn't even cut the guy any slack when they got back to camp after Ozzy went to RI.

Jim carried the guy through three Tribals and probably couldn't have done anything for him the fourth time but then Ozzy came up with the great Messiah plan. Jim was willing to risk the rock and would have been standing there next to Cochran when the time came. So I think Jim is entitled to feel some disappointment that Cochran flipped when Jim was counting on him to play the odds (individually the risks were fair and even, but probability favored a Savaii victory since fewer of them werre taking the risk, the gambler liked their chances).

Not that Cochran owes any of them anything, really, because it is a game and they all walked into it eyes wide open knowing it is a game. Living it 24/7 they get confused and start to think of it as real life, but it isn't, it's still just a game.

"RE: Next time on Survivor..."
Posted by Brownroach on 11-03-11 at 10:49 AM
LAST EDITED ON 11-03-11 AT 10:54 AM (EST)

sure you can argue that it's an individual game

Yes. It is.

since the two that are voted for don't pull the rock it would have been 2/7 chance, whereas every Upolu had a 5/7 chance

No. Whitney would have had to pick a rock, so Savaii's chances of getting it were 3 in 8 to Upolu's 5 in 8. That's one off from 50/50 odds. Not such a tremendous advantage.

the others never threw him under the bus
But he was always in danger of getting voted out. He got votes at every TC. In hindsight they should have voted him out last week, like they originally planned. Oh well...too late now.

Yes it was a selfish move, yes Cochran would "do anything to stay in the game 3 more days" as people keep saying, but so what? That is what the game is about. I doubt this move is going to help Cochran, but I don't particularly care that it ruined the other Savaiis' games.

I think Cochran's kind of a jerk but, like Corvis, I don't get the intense hatred.

"RE: Next time on Survivor..."
Posted by emydi on 11-03-11 at 11:05 AM
Jim kept saying that HI (whit)wouldn't have to pick rock. I know you posted the rule but did it change or did Jim just have it wrong?

I don't hate Cochroach, never have, he's a contestant on a tv show. I just think his move was a really bad one. He didn't have the ability to get more info out of the Ups (really, Coach and Sophie). I think he should have strategized more and thought more about who the Ups were voting for. The move to make was to tell Ozzy who to hand off HI to.

"RE: Next time on Survivor..."
Posted by Tummy on 11-03-11 at 11:10 AM
I'm confused also on why Whitney would have had to pick a rock. She was given the HI - why would she have to draw when Ozzy and Dawn didn't?
"RE: Next time on Survivor..."
Posted by Brownroach on 11-03-11 at 12:16 PM
I reposted the rule here, but ofg thinks this an older version of it and that it changed. This version states that only the person with immunity by virtue of winning a challenge doesn't have to pick a rock. Which implies that if you originally had immunity for some other reason, you do have to pick.
"RE: Next time on Survivor..."
Posted by Tummy on 11-03-11 at 01:49 PM
Thanks! This is the only thread I'll go into on spoilers and that's only the next day.
"RE: Next time on Survivor..."
Posted by dabo on 11-03-11 at 11:12 AM
It's an odd rule, part of the contract which seems intentionally confusing, overloaded. There is a section of it that deals with a three-way tie and supposes somehow that once it becomes a two-way tie it may still go to a rock even though unbreakable three-way ties are only possible at odd numbers. And it doesn't take into account if II has been gifted to another player.
"RE: Next time on Survivor..."
Posted by parathor on 11-03-11 at 09:09 AM
...maybe we didnt watch the same show. Cochran wasn't shown as sympathetic to me, he was shown as a self-serving weasel who would do anything to get to stay 3 more days.

Did Cochran try and get the names of who the other team was voting for? Very, VERY mildly. Better solution: offer a bargain, offer a suggestion... and then realize that it won't be either of those two bargains/suggestions.

Did Cochran switch sides immediately? He hesitated, waffled, before finally flipping. And then ADMITTED it immediately thereafter. It would have been respectable if he just said "You know, I'm gonna just flip." People would have understood. He's not just a villain, he's a desperate, attention-starved whore.

The only sympathy that I can think of giving this dweeb is that he was bullied by his tribe... and yet, he was bullied by Coach. "If you don't flip, then we pick rocks, and that's a terrible way to play this game." Seriously? Coach was willing to go that route and not switch, so he pushed Cochran into doing it for him? That's not bullying?

Ugh, so done with these players! Where's the freakin' mastermind that we were promised this season? Coach is the smartest one out there, and that makes me sad (and mildly angry).

"RE: Next time on Survivor..."
Posted by television on 11-03-11 at 04:59 PM
The only sympathy that I can think of giving this dweeb is that he was bullied by his tribe... and yet, he was bullied by Coach. "If you don't flip, then we pick rocks, and that's a terrible way to play this game." Seriously? Coach was willing to go that route and not switch, so he pushed Cochran into doing it for him? That's not bullying?


No, I think there's a difference between saying 'you're worthless and you cost us challenges, we're going to make it clear you're on the outs with us' and saying 'you're smart and I understand what it's like to be picked on'. I would not consider the latter bullying by any means. I don't know if I'd consider the former bullying either, but it's clearly mean-spirited. Just because Coach buttered him up to get him to consider flipping doesn't mean he 'bullied' him, but kind of the opposite, making him feel accepted and respected.

I don't understand why the Savaii plan was 'solid'; I don't think anyone short of Rob Mariano could brainwash his tribe so much that they'd go to pick rocks - that's silly, there's always someone that's smart enough to realize that it's a horrible option. Even John, the condescending rocket scientist guy in Russell's season, who got voted out at the next vote - I'd say even he made the right move, from his perspective. It's possible that Cochran's best shot of winning would be to ride through the pick 'em with his tribe and then try to figure out a way to get on top if he was still in the game, but it's easy for me to see how if you're out there, you can always think of the scenario where you're for sure still there as making it possible to bail yourself out.

That said, I couldn't care less if he got voted out tomorrow, I'm completely indifferent to the guy.

"RE: Next time on Survivor..."
Posted by Brownroach on 11-03-11 at 06:16 PM
he was bullied by Coach. "If you don't flip, then we pick rocks, and that's a terrible way to play this game." Seriously? Coach was willing to go that route and not switch, so he pushed Cochran into doing it for him? That's not bullying?

No, it's strategy. Talk somebody into doing what you want them to do by making them believe it's in their best interest to do it.

"RE: Next time on Survivor..."
Posted by SquidProQuo on 11-03-11 at 00:20 AM
KOB, I was thinking the same thing. Or why didn't they try to work on Edna?

The best scene to me was Sophie and Cochran...she totally out schooled the Harvard boy and wouldn't give him 1 crumb, while meanwhile he was spilling his guts to her. She is smart and pulling a lot of the strings.

The scenes with Dawn were also very interesting and sympathetic. I could see her teaming up with Cochran and Sophie. But Dawn better watch out because she's shown to be good at challenges vs. someone like Whitney.

"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Corvis on 11-03-11 at 00:36 AM
You know, I don't blame Cochran at all for switching sides. It was his best move in the game. He went from the bottom of one alliance to the bottom of a different alliance. So what? He's still in the game. The other option was risk his Survivor life to be at the bottom of an alliance. That would have been absolutely stupid. He knows he's got no chance of breaking into the Savaii alliance. But there are cracks in the Upolo alliance and all he has to do is find them while the Savaii are voted out one by one. So from a strategy point of view, it was definitely his best move.

And it was completely understandable from a personal point of view considering how he'd been treated by the rest of the tribe. One reaps what one sows.

Go Cochran.

"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by AyaK on 11-03-11 at 02:56 AM
Going from being on the bottom of a 6-person alliance to the bottom of a 7-person alliance has to qualify as incredibly stupid. Remember how well it worked for Brandon in Survivor: Africa? Immediately after switching on the post-merger vote, he got voted out. Expect Cochran to suffer a similar fate. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

As an HLS grad myself, I have to apologize to America for unleashing both Cochran and Obama on the poor defenseless country.

"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Corvis on 11-03-11 at 09:06 AM
LAST EDITED ON 11-03-11 AT 09:41 AM (EST)

I completely disagree. In theory, what you say is true. But in this specific case, with the dynamics of the tribes, it was easily the best move.

And bringing politics into a Survivor thread is just wrong. =

"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by 5cats on 11-03-11 at 06:01 PM
Being in law school or a law school graduate doesn't mean you are smarter than others as ayak points out and proves by his stupid comment! Sorry Corvis, I agree, no politics but his comment was very offensive.
"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by cahaya on 11-06-11 at 02:10 AM
And I agree with you that it was his best move, for reasons outlined below.

I think we can also leave law out of Survivor, too.

"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 11-03-11 at 06:49 AM
LAST EDITED ON 11-03-11 AT 06:51 AM (EST)

Yeah I don't blame Cochran either for flipping sides, I'd probably do the same after the way the tribe (particularly Ozzy and Jim) was constantly ragging on him.

One thing I've learned from years of being on and coaching team sports: You don't put a challenge liability in a position to possibly influence the challenge. So, putting Cochrane with Ozzy and Dawn to push the wheelbarrow in Episode 6 wasn't a good idea but whose fault is that? The tribe for letting that happen. In Episode 7, Jim was right there with Cochran doing the calling out and hooking up the ropes - he should have been the one monitoring the ropes, not Cochran. If they let Cochran do that when they already know he doesn't have the best coordination, then that's on the tribe not Cochran.

Then after all that, to constantly rag on Cochran for his challenge performance ... what did they expect? Of course Cochran is going to think of flipping over! All they had to do was to show some respect to Cochran and we'd be discussing the likelihood of how Savai'i is going to pagong the Upolus from here on, not the other way around.

There's been worse challenge competitors than Cochran in the past (Scout Cloud Lee, for one), but we never heard about how bad they were from their tribes - they just knew and adjusted their strategies as a result.

"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by dabo on 11-03-11 at 10:36 AM
The "Twins" challenge was pretty odd in that the players had to pair up before they went to the challenge; somehow Coach and Rick were paired and able to take the caller and rope handler jobs for Upolu; Jim and Cochran were paired and they had to use Cochran somewhere, once it was decided Keith and Ozzy would run the course for Savaii the caller and rope handler jobs had to be decided between Jim and Cochran. (And wasn't production lucky that the tribes were even up at six each for the twins theme.)

I really don't blame Cochran for blowing the Secret Agent job, he did his part at the arena as well as possible, Ozzy oversold it. Cochran went ahead and tried to do the mission anyway but Coach let him know straight up that he knew what was really going on. From that point onward Cochran was in a corner, he knew Upolu was taking it to the mattresses. Still, he stuck with Savaii through the first vote. The group odds favored Savaii in drawing rocks since only Jim and Cochran would have to risk it, but the individual odds were the same for everyone drawing the rocks and the only way to avoid it was to change his vote. The merge vote, the one time when Cochran should have been very safe, but no, once again it's his neck. The only Savaii who can justifiably be angry with Cochran is Jim, since he was willing to gamble himself going all in on the rock.

I'm going to have to rewatch it, it was after midnight when I got to watch the recording after having spent a lot of time driving one of the worst detours in Indiana (twice). Very odd merge episode with even the vote targets getting little attention, very odd.

"Agree, partly"
Posted by cahaya on 11-06-11 at 01:07 AM
LAST EDITED ON 11-06-11 AT 01:08 AM (EST)

After a re-watch and detailed recap, I have to agree with Corvis to a certain extent.

The fact is that Cochran was the low one on the totem pole in Savaii and there was no secret about that to anyone. That's why he was such an easy mark for Coach to sway, particularly since Coach called every single move Ozzy and the Savaii tribe made right from the start.

And who's to say Cochran just went from being on the bottom of one tribe to the bottom of the other?

What did Brandon say right after the vote? Cochran's already got a protector in Brandon, just as Brandon has his protector in Coach. I doubt Coach or any of the Upolu tribe respect Cochran less for what he did after hearing how he had been treated -- even at council.

Absolutely loved that line Brandon laid on Jim. "Don't talk to him like that. That's what you get for talking to him like that in the first place."

"RE: S23 Ep 8 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by handyandy on 11-03-11 at 01:45 AM
What the heck do you expect from a pimply Harvard Law Student? He's probably not even on the Law Review, so he didn't have to write an article, unlike the Big Zero, who could've, but couldn't.

Crap.