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"The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by VerucaSalt on 09-09-11 at 01:42 PM
You could not ask for a better frame of reference than last season. It was fairly (and proceeded to get glaringly) apparent that Rob was the feature of the season and the high editing marks he received were to encompass a winner that the producers/editors were thrilled to have.

Although this is redundant from my post last season, I repeat the introduction for last season as, of course, it is relevant especially since this actually occurred last season.

As we saw firsthand, returning players always adds a dynamic to Survivor with a double edged sword. Is the player valuable because a jury would not give them a million dollars when they have played that many times before or do players want to get rid of them immediately so they don't even get close to the end for fear that they COULD actually win by a jury who may be impressed they got that far

My words from last season's post are italicized because quite ironically, each tribe did exactly the actions above (not necessarily for the reasons conveyed - solely the action) Rob got to the end (and won) and his tribe kept him! The other tribe wanted Russell gone immediately (and done fairly immediately)

With Ozzy and Coach, we may perhaps find this to occur again but on opposite issues. If we categorize Ozzy for Rob (in terms of providing, competitions, etc and edited more or less for the audience to like him) I would suspect this tribe will go the route that Russell's did last season and get rid of Ozzy as too dangerous to keep around. The flip side of this is that prior to the merge, this person is valuable to keep winning. Should we put Coach in the Russell category (Coach's edit was much better in H v. V but preceding edit was a true caricature and people wanted to get rid of him) this tribe, may, in fact, keep Coach around. It will be very interesting to see if these tribes do what was done last season - get rid of one early due to a large threatening nature and keep the other one with the belief they need not worry (in Rob's case, the tribe did not keep him due to not worrying but kept him nonetheless)

I would *suspect* if ANYONE is kept around it would be Coach over Ozzy but we have learned time and time again that players may think they are logical yet behave illogically.

Once again, with Redemption Island, the twist of being able to return to the game will also throw a twist and editing will play a crucial role in those that can re-enter the game as short term players normally do not receive loving hands in the shape of their edit. We saw firsthand why some who went to Redemption Island received a more "meaty" edit prior to their banishment so the edits formed PRIOR to their going to RI can assist in determining their longevity (by way of staying on RI or coming back to the game)

Considering we have this twist, those who boot Ozzy may recognize his ability in challenges and that may cause them to re-think an early boot decision as well.

Below are the "characters" and I would love input from those who are still interested in what this thread is about - dissecting the editing of the characters to determine their longevity and how they fit into the overall story the show wishes to convey. Please make any changes necessary to the information as well.

Blue Tribe

Benjamin “Coach” Wade – Previously in Survivor Tocantins and Heroes v. Villains. I felt a very palpable difference in his edit between both seasons. While a "clownish" character both times, there was a softening in his edit in H v. V and he became quite likeable. I think we all agree that Coach will always get a mindful effort due to his personality which may have no bearing on how well he does.

Albert Destrade (Age 25, Florida, Baseball Coach) Perhaps we have one "coach" enjoying the company of another coach and perhaps a fellow warrior? Will Albert be viewed as an automatic threat?

Brandon Hantz (Age 19, Texas,Tankerman) Will the family relationship help or hurt Brandon? I believe until it becomes a non-issue they will attempt to make into more of a story than necessary.

Christine Shields Markoski (Age 39, NY, Teacher) Of course we have Christine and Stacey as the older women - however we do have a racial divide, geographical divide to consider between the two so we can't necessarily believe the "older" women will stick together. She does appear the "motherly" type and dependent upon her physicality she could do well or be someone who may weaken her tribe

Edna Ma (Age 35, MD, California)Just under the "elder women" but we have geographical and racial diversity so it will be interesting to see who she finds common ground with (perhaps the medical student). She is very youthful looking to not stand out as "too old" and obviously very smart based on her occupation. Sometimes a smart woman is not valuable - her initial edit should reflect her longevity. Smart men do much better than overly smart women

Mikayla Wingle (Age 21, lingerie football player, FL)Albert and Mikayla have youth and geographical location in common. Obviously feminine wiles may play a role with Mikayla but that sometimes causes issues with the females. If she markets it correctly and offsets the flirting by showing she is valuable then she may be one of "those" girls who can do well.

Rick Nelson (Age 51, Utah, Cattle Rancher) The "eldest" on the tribe and he may forge a working relationship with Coach. On paper, despite being the eldest, he may do rather well as I suspect he will be shown as hard working, soft spoken and a father figure

Sophie Clarke (Age 22, NY, Med school student) I like the looks of this girl as I can see her being well received by both the men and women. She has some common ground in her occupation and residential area with others and appears that she could engage with most of her tribe.

Stacey Powell (Age 44, TX, Funeral Director)We have racial diversity by her which I take into consideration in terms of finding common ground with tribemates, I will find it extremely interesting to see how she is in this type of situation. As a funeral director, she does have to interact with people but the bane of this occupation can be solitary by nature. Can she handle this type of situation?

Red Tribe

Ozzy Lusth Previously on Cook Islands and Fans v. Favorites. Yet another very different edit in both seasons. He was given a stellar edit in CI where people were in awe of his athletic ability. He was not as engaging as the winner but the edit capitalized on how the contestants were amazed by his physicality. That was capitalized upon. In F v. F the edit took a different turn and focused more on his romance. The men in general were shown to be bamboozled by the female contestants as well. They marketed him for this season about his "winningest" This, of course, may be very valuable at the onset but a big threat which his tribe surely cannot overlook

Semhar Tadesse (Age 24, CA, Poet/Writer/Model) I don't think that Semhar was casted due to her being someone who can "outlast" It appears that she may be characterization the producers wanted. The first episode will tell us more but on paper I don't see her outlasting anyone else on this tribe

Dawn Meehan (Age, 40, Utah, Professor) A possible future Utah connection! The "mom" no doubt of the group. As discussed before, moms can do very well as long as they can keep up athletically and/or give everyone the sense of caretaking. There is nothing to indicate that she can't do well

Elyse Umemoto (Age 26, NV, Dance Team Manager)There had to be one on this side also! Does she go in for the kill immediately with the males on this tribe? Does the "femme fatale" strategy work with her? We've seen the successes and failures of this strategy and it is usually readily apparent within the first couple of episodes

Jim Rice (Age 34, CO, Marijuana Dispensary Owner)
I'm not entirely sure what goes into this profession but it should be interesting to see. He isn't exactly "older" but not exactly "younger" so I do wonder which age group he gravitates to. I do not like basing speculation over looks but he appears to be someone that tries a bit too hard and overextends himself

John Cochran (Age 23, VA, Law school student) Who has any doubt that this contestant will be given top billing as long as they can? As long as he does not physically bring his tribe to their knees, he can do amazingly well and we will know immediately by his edit the investment made in him. Non threatening by all, possibly extremely smart (and smart enough to know he shouldn't show how smart he is) he is most definitely someone who will be highlighted. The question is knowing whether it is due to "character" or end game.

Keith Tollefson (Age 26, CA, Environment Tech) Unlike some other young, fit men we have seen before who tend to be a bit brash, Keith appears to be not quite as machismo and may bond very well with Ozzy and the rest of his tribe. The women should like him well enough as well. There does not appear to be anything that should set off early game exit bells

Mark Anthony Caruso (Age 47, NY, Nurse/retired detective)Unfortunately Mark may find himself in a position that happens in Survivor where the "oldest" one goes. However, we have had many examples where some end up going very far. Ozzy is a competitor though and if Ozzy is placed as leader he may look to anyone who causes the tribe to lose. But Mark also has a very healthy resume and if he can portray the "father figure" coupled with his background, he may be safe for the time being.

Whitney Duncan (Age 26, TN, singer/songwriter) Obviously a featured cast member as her face has been on commercials constantly. She will be another to be highlighted and if she uses that Southern charm correctly she can do quite well. The "femme fatale" role is always up for grabs but one has to play the role very carefully or people get tired of it

Enjoy the season!


Table of contents
Messages in this discussion
"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by Krautboy on 09-09-11 at 03:00 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-09-11 AT 03:00 PM (EST)

Thanks VS! Looking forward to your insights. SBlows wouldn't be complete without your thread...

If you don't mind, I will post some of your early assessments as part of the EP1 Boot discussion...

Thanks again!



Krautboy

"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by Flowerpower on 09-09-11 at 03:39 PM
So happy to see you, Veruca! Sure hope you are doing well these days and I sure hope to see you a bit more than we did last season...Just love to hear your 2 cents worth on any matter!

Yes, last season seemed like they featured Rob and made him the prototype on how to win Survivor. And, I must say as a Rob fan, I thoroughly enjoyed it! With the Rob win, however, I do think that these returnees will have a much more difficult time winning. But, perhaps they would be wise to make their case as an F3 goat.

I think you have summed up the new cast quite nicely. I do think that Ozzy looks to be in pretty good shape still. Albert is also known as a dating coach and prides himself on being an expert on body language. If this holds true, he could have some interesting confessionals and assessments. He, imo, appears to be the only real physical threat out there, other than Ozzy. He's a career baseball player and coach. I'm sure he's quite competetive. This could help him pre-merge, but could paint him as a target with the merge and beyond.

Brandon Hantz...doesn't want to reveal his sir-name and connection to RussHell to anyone. He's 19 with a family to support already, I question his ability to make wise choices...

Christine, by her own admission has a temper. In fact, she sent in a tape raging about the likes of NaOnka and Kelly Purple. In a pretty athletic tribe, she could be an earlier boot, imo.

Stacey is also one of the older members of the tribe. As a mortician and I think a single mother she is used to making all of the decisions herself. She noted in an interview that the one thing that she absolutely hates is negativity and if she runs into out there, she'll have to get rid of it. Also, one of the other cast members was speaking about her, how she looked angry....I'm on the fence with her. If she's an asset in challenges, and she could be, than she may make it a while. I'm not encouraged.

Sophie Clark does appear to be a character to me. At 22, she must just be starting Med School, in fact, I don't know if she's actually started. She strikes me as a typical female medical student, and I have been around many. Very full of herself and her intellectual endowments. I would love to see her survive, but I question if she'll keep her alpha personality under wraps enough. If she's not able to laugh at the situations and at herself she will be in trouble.

Edna: Plans to keep the Anesthesiology profession under wraps. She could be someone to watch. They are used to accommodating Surgeons, but holding their ground when they need to. Very good at handling stressful situations. If she's not too full of herself she could do well. As Veruca notes, she looks youthful, now let's see how she'll do in challenges.

Mikayla: Talk about weird professions...a lingerie football player...really? Ex Playboy Cover model....I don't know. If she is as athletic as they are protraying then she could last...I don't know what to think about her. Seems like a DAW to me...let's see her competitive nature shine through...

Rick Nelson: A real cowboy and rancher. Finally got on after applying 14 times. Oldest on the tribe, but looks like he's not afraid of hard work. If he can keep his rigid opinions to himself, then he could last a while, but I don't know if he'll get the social part of this game down.

Coach: Definitely agree that he had a softer edit in H v V, but he was somewhat of a floater. Jiffy doesn't think he's learned from the past, after viewing him in the first 5 minutes of the game. But he does love Coach. Coach will gravitate toward the warriors of his tribe...Albert and Rick, maybe even Brandon....but Brandon is a young kid, so I don't know.

Savaii, Red Tribe:

John Cochran: I really like the looks and sounds of him. He's a nerd and he knows it, but he seems to be able to laugh at himself. A real fan of the show and a bright mind, he could go far. I just hope he can contribute for the tribe in challenges...

Dawn: I really like the looks of her as well, a Brigham Young English Professior and Adoptive mom of 6. Wow, she's my idol. Seems adaptable, not too full of herself, and she seems like she's in great shape. Go Dawn!

Keith Tollefson: I really like the looks of him as well. A laid back surfer I expect will get along just fine with Ozzy. I think they have alot in common. As one of the younger more athletic males on the tribe, he is golden till the merge. I think he could go far with his disarming smile, and laid back approach.

Mark Anthony: A openly gay father and ex NYPD cop/nurse who wants to be the "daddy" to everyone. I think they will let him and appreciate him unless he weights them down in the challenges. He's got to prove himself.

Jim Rice: I agree that he seems like he is a bit insecure and very quick to point out everything he's accomplished. He doesn't look like he's in very good shape to me either. Could wind up in trouble if he is too bold.

Whitney: Agree that Whitney has alot of charm and personality. That could bode very well for her. I wonder how she'll get along with Elyse? Sure is a looker. I know at least one player on the Savaii tribe that better not be wooed by the girls on the team...chuckle! She does seem more athletic than some of the girls, so could last a while.

Elyse: A pagaent girl and now a Las Vegas Dance manager. Jiffy calls her "trouble". If she is athletic she could bring favor from her tribe.

Semhar: I agree with everyone, just seems way out there. I don't expect her to last long at all. Too artsy and not enough out in the elements. She's going to struggle, I think.

The biggest thing I noticed when the tribes were divided and introduced is that the RED tribe seems so much less physical than the BLUE tribe.
Let's compare:

Ozzy, Keith 26, Jim34, Mark Anthony47, Cochran23 vs. Coach 39, Albert25, Rick 51, and Brandon19

It appears that Ozzy and Keith are the most athletic vs. Coach, Albert, Rick, and Brandon who all appear to be strong, physical competitors...

Semhar24, Dawn40, Elyse26, and Whitney26 vs. Sophie22, Mikayla21, Chrisitine39, Stacey44, and Edna35

I think Dawn, Elyse, and Whitney should do pretty well, although I don't look at them as athletic standouts but they are vs. a strong Sophie, Mikayla, and Stacey...the verdict is not in on Christine or Edna yet.

I just think the blue tribe looks far more athletic than the red tribe. If this is the case, I don't see how they could afford to boot Ozzy or Keith early pre-merge. This might help them both. Coach is also in a pretty good position as they are short one man and may choose to keep him around for strength till merge time. We'll see.

Thanks so much for starting this wonderful thread, Veruca! I hope you enjoy the season!



"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by kiki_k on 09-10-11 at 01:37 AM
LAST EDITED ON 09-10-11 AT 01:41 AM (EST)

So happy to see you Veruca! Also love your insights.

My one, small observation: this cast seems lacking in the usual plethora of "mactors" that Survivor has been casting for the last several seasons. These people have a wide range of occupations -- doctor, rancher, nurse, professor, students, funeral director! I hope it makes for more interesting personal dynamics in the tribes.

"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 09-10-11 at 02:15 AM
LAST EDITED ON 09-10-11 AT 02:39 AM (EST)

Welcome back, Veruca!

I just want to post the information that according to knowledge about when this cast flew out to be sequestered, that they were sent early so that they would not view the Finale.

I'm not sure how much they saw, but they did not see:
a) what happened to the second returnee from RI
b) that Rob won.
At best they saw the Final 8.

The reason I mention this is I think they were sequestered so that they if they do see Ozzy as the next Rob, they have not seen how a tribe basically handed the returning player the million. I think CBS wants them to be less worried about Ozzy.

Also want to throw this in about Coach:

Does he still coach? He is a full time conductor now.
Coach is known as a womanizer. He had an affair with Debbie in of after Tocantins, and then formed a flirtatious alliance with Jerri even though it didn't pan out.
So he may gravitate towards a woman this season as well, and in the past he has bonded with the more mature but slender and youthful looking ladies.

Not sure if Upolu has a match for him, but maybe Edna. And Mikayla at 22 is too young but if she flatters him ...

"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by Flowerpower on 09-10-11 at 09:05 AM
Thanks for posting this info, OFG! I had no idea that they were sequestered early to avoid knowledge of the end game. That's good to know. Also, wasn't aware of that tom-cat Coach!

Great to see you again for the start of the season!


"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by kiki_k on 09-10-11 at 02:44 PM
I'm sure the newbies were not sequestered with Coach & Ozzy, but Coach definitely knows the results of the previous season because on the TV Guide Survivor preview show Coach talked about Boston Rob winning. Like I said, that doesn't mean the newbies know, but Coach (and I'm assuming therefore Ozzy) definitely knows.
"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by Naked on 09-17-11 at 07:38 PM
I would think that the question would be at what point Coach new the results of last season. He could have easily been interviewed after he was finished playing the game. He probably does not have the knowledge of what happened as he played..

VOTE NAKED 2004

"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by Belle Book on 09-10-11 at 08:02 PM
If Coach gravitates toward Edna, that may help her out quite a bit! Or maybe not, depending on how Coach is received by Upolu.

I think Ozzy will make the merge because his tribe needs his strength. After that -- see ya on the jury first chance.


"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by michel on 09-26-11 at 08:46 PM
I've been kind of busy lately so I am just catching but I think you were given wrong information OFG. This is from Edna's episode 1 insider clip:


"There are two players coming back into the game. I'm totally excited to see who they are, but at the same time, I'm very nervous, because it will obviously change the dynamics of the tribe and the way our tribe sees each other and the returning Survivor... At the same time, 2 out of 3 times, returning Survivors have won and not new Survivors. So I'm gonna have to convey that message and convince my tribe to vote accordingly."

The 3 times where returning players faced off with newbies are Guatemala, Micronesia and Redemption Island so she knows that Rob won.

"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by kingfish on 09-10-11 at 09:58 AM
One thing to consider about Ozzy, his heroic performances were primarily based on water competitions, esp in CI, and the competitions of late have been land based. His swimming/diving skills may be blunted if the producers don't include more water based contests.

Of course, knowing that Ozzy is returning, they may well include a few water based comps just for him.

"Jeff's Assessments"
Posted by Flowerpower on 09-11-11 at 08:54 AM
As posted by OFG in the TravelQueen's Jeff talks about how Ozzy and Coach are similar thread, here is the link to Jeff Probst's Cast Assessement Video. Basically, this is how he sized them up...

He is very hopeful that they have a GREAT cast. He notes their diversity in the intro. Cochran is their own "Woody Allen". He insisted that Jeff please call him Cochran, because he loves it when Jeff calls contestants by their last names! He's very engaged in the game and he COULD be that guy that wins.

Mikayla: The female Boston Rob. Has that same Boston way, tomboy, girls will want to be like her and guys will want to be with her.

Albert: He's a dark horse. He's good looking, young, fit. Albert looks around at his castmates and notes, that he doesn't see any other threats....

*I think that Albert is the most physically imposing and because of that, he could be out sooner rather than later...

Christine: With any luck she will be there at the end. She's funny, good story teller, doesn't hesitate. The only obstacle will be fitting in, can she fit in with the young girls or guys?

Semhar: No business being out there. She's more worried about her hair than the million dollars.

Rick Nelson: Cowboy, applied 14 times, he gets that these are younger people and he has to play their game.

Dawn: A mom, she knows she will be out there with young people, and knows how to fit in with them because that's her job. She thinks she will fit in well...

Brandon: Nephew of RussHell. Jeff says that he's likable. He has no plans to tell them his relationship to Russhell, but Jeff notes that he has two tats that say HANTZ, one on the back of his neck, and one on his shoulder....

Edna: A control freak and a flirt

Keith: 6'5", a tall jock, a really likable guy, will make the merge but Jeff doesn't think he has what it takes to win.

Stacey: She will have a hard time. She looks at the world differently. I think she seems very stern and serious out there, and I question her ability to fit in...Jeff thinks that she will physically help her tribe.

Jim Rice: Jeff loves him on the show and loves his candor. He's a single guy who likes the girls, doesn't think he'll win.

Elyse: Party girl with a business head, could be a girly girl out there and if so, won't last long

Mark Anthony: Retired cop. Jeff says he should be "the specialist" and figure out who is lying...

Sophie: Will be hard for her to fit in. She can come off as blunt, won't pretend she's dumb...

Whitney: Likable and will be liked. She's a country singer, tats, rebel and could go deep.


"RE: Jeff's Assessments"
Posted by Belle Book on 09-11-11 at 12:21 PM
Edna's a control freak? That worries me. As for the flirting -- yeah, she'll flirt with Coach and wrap him around her little finger. So that might help her out.


"RE: Jeff's Assessments"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 09-12-11 at 02:52 AM
Coach likes to be admired. After seeing the assessments, Edna doesn't seem like a cheerleader like Debbie. Jeff called her a dominatrix. Said she has the power to put you out and bring you back. Did Jeff get scared by am anesthesiologist? I've noticed that Jeff doesn't like the doctors much, at least he didn't like Marcus or Mick.

I get the gone soon vibe from the people he thinks will have issues. Jeff has been doing this so long, he's not wrong very often. He did get it wrong calling Stephanie out first last time, but he was right that she annoyed a good part of her tribe.

I like Cochran. He seems like a Rafe or Fischbach type smart guy.

Ozzy is agile and speedy but not that muscular. Albert way overmatches him in strength. Ozzy was great to watch but he has always had an arrogance that turned people off. He doesn't have BR's ability to be fun and funny and show his evil side in confessional. I love to watch him provide for the tribe. I don't remember seeing much fishing in either S19 or 20. Maybe he'll change that.

"RE: Jeff's Assessments"
Posted by dabo on 09-12-11 at 11:36 AM
Some of the women in his first season reacted negatively to Coach, thought he was sleezy. He didn't change much but in his second season he was a familiar face among familiar faces and Russell the Big Bad. From what Jeff says it doesn't sound as if Coach has changed at all, still the eccentric who is likely to rub some the wrong way. They have just put him in the "expert Survivor" spot this season, which plays right into his big ego.

vince3 tributes thread

"RE: Jeff's Assessments"
Posted by Belle Book on 09-12-11 at 04:45 PM
You may have something there -- I don't think Jeff likes doctors much. I guess he was scarred by one.

Do you think he sees Edna as going soon? That would be a pity.


"RE: Jeff's Assessments"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 09-13-11 at 04:37 AM
well, I think Jeff's opinions on doctors can be skewed by his prejudice. He thought Marcus was arrogant; I liked him and found him pretty humble. He assessed Mick as someone who would heartlessly use and manipulate people, especially women, and then dump them ... and if anything Mick played too soft a game.

I feel like some doctor or med student beat Jeff out for a girl at some time. When he talks about Edna, he may be right on or it could be more Jeff Projection.

Coach sleazy? Nah! He's a man of honor and integrity!

"RE: Jeff's Assessments"
Posted by Belle Book on 09-13-11 at 08:10 PM
Well, when it comes to doctors and med students, I'll take Jeff's comments with a grain of salt considering his prejudice against doctors.

Incidentally, this is about a different show, but I found Nat & Kat from The Amazing Race very nice. So if Jeff talks trash about them, I'll know it's just prejudice!


"RE: Jeff's Assessments"
Posted by dabo on 09-13-11 at 10:38 PM
Jeff still has sour grapes about the alphabet strategy. Unfortunately, when it comes to Survivor, some players really are too smart for their own good.
"RE: Jeff's Assessments"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 09-13-11 at 10:55 PM
lol, dabo, yes that strategy may well have changed who won the first season. Although Sean knew where his alphabet arrows were going to fall.

I was going to include Dr. Sean, but that was before the day when Jeff gave interviews saying what he thinks of the contestants. I can't remember, was he down on Sean?

"RE: Jeff's Assessments"
Posted by dabo on 09-14-11 at 01:08 AM
I don't recall Probst ever saying anything about the alphabet strategy itself. He liked Sean, enjoyed the more Gilligan's Island aspects he came up with during the first season; but Probst went through his own steep learning curve the first season trying to get a handle on how to keep control in Tribals and deal with unruly characters like Greg, find ways to mix things up.

The alphabet strategy itself, on its own merits, was a reasonable middle ground approach to trying to not make enemies among the Pagong, not be the bad guy. But Richard picked up on it and was able to make Sean the fall guy.

"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by dabo on 09-12-11 at 03:07 PM
One thing we should watch for in the first few episodes is how the HII angle this season influences tribal dynamics (if at all). With them having to hunt for clues in order to hunt for the HII (meaning it should be very well hidden), good hunters and puzzle solvers may be more valued in alliance, more feared if not in alliance.

I also have to wonder if either Coach or Ozzy might recognize the legacy player, especially Coach since he played a season with Russell.

"Post Episode 1, Survivor 23"
Posted by Flowerpower on 09-16-11 at 06:17 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-16-11 AT 06:21 PM (EST)

I wanted to share some of my thought regarding the first episode. I am in no way ready to make any predictions, that's for sure! But, I do have some feelings post episode one...

We get shots of the Survivors paddling in on their rafts, as the helicopter is seen flying over head. Jiffy goes on the note that 2 of Survivors most memorable players: Ozzy and Coach, are returning for a shot at redemption. This introduces our very first confessional:

Coach: I have played this game twice, I haven't been successful. This time I'll try to control my sense of self rightousness. I'm back because this is one more chance to prove to everybody that I can own this game and that it can be done with honor and integrity..... Then he looks at Ozzy and smiles.

Then, the second confessional, Ozzy:
I've been the guy that's able to climb coconut trees and hunt fish and I've also been really strong in challenges. I don't think I have the best strategy. This time, I'm more mature and I've learned from my mistakes. I need redemption because I feel like I haven't been able to lock my hands on the million dollars. I've almost been there a few times, I haven't been able to finish...

Note that Ozzy voices the title of the episode.

Then we cut to some of the other newbies and what they have to say...

3rd confessional: John Cochran: I am by far the most strategically saavy person ever to play the game. I've never missed a single episode. In High School I wrote a prize winning essay on Survivor.

4th confessional: Elyse: I don't have a great background in out doorsy activities, but I'm Native American and I'm hoping that the great experience of my past will impart some wisdom on me...

5th confessional: Rick: I'm 51 years old, I run my own ranch in Utah. If you didn't train to get here...run, learn how to make fire....you better just spit into the wind...

6th confessional: Stacey: I'm a 44 year old funeral director, mortician. I have four children. Being the mother that I am, I'm going to have my eyes and ears open. When you think I'm asleep, I'm not going to be asleep. I'm going to be nosey as hell...

7th confessional: Brandon: I am RussHell Hantz' nephew. It's like being related to Hitler. But, I don't think Hitler's nephew went around saying, "Hey, I'm Hitler's nephew". I came out to change the course of the Hantz name.

Then Jiffy finishes with They must learn to adapt (see Whitney) or they'll be voted out, (see Semhar). In the end, only one (see Sophie) will remain to claim the million dollar (see Jim followed by John) prize...see Albert followed by Keith.

Then Jeff addresses the group, and says there will be 2 more players and here they come...Ozzy and Coach. A strong and mostly positive reaction to Ozzy and not for Coach. Jeff asks Christine what she thinks and she ends with, they are temporary players. Telling. Then he calls on John, who asks to be called "Cochran", and he reveals that he's a great fan of the show. He gets a confessional regarding his love of the game. He's happy to be getting them and their experience.

They crack the eggs and the Savaii's are thrilled, while the Upolu's are not. Rick gets a confessional about how ridiculous Coach is, a dragon slayer???

Ozzy jumps into his tribe, while Coach approaches his carefully. Ozzy playfully rubs a hand full of paint on Jeff's shirt, then on Keith, and others. Ozzy confessional, they looked like a good, strong tribe and I'm happy. They have the challenge, and Ozzy praises the group and says that they did it together. They seem very excited and elated to have Ozzy. Whereas Coach has his hands full as he knows he has to face his greatest fear, the fear of being voted out first. In confessional he notes that hold on to your cheeks because you are going to have to have twice your slayer charm to make it through the beginning game... Edna is the only one that waits for him, and sleezy Coach notes she has a nice smile...

When the Savaii arrives at their beach, Ozzy says in confessional that everyone is looking to him to tell them everything to do...(I get the impression that Ozzy is NOT comfortable with it). He continues, "I'm trying to come out there and really play a strategic game this time". Then the tribe starts asking each other what they do. Someone starts with John and he admits that he's a law student at Harvard, Whitney says that she's a song writer in Nashville, and Semhar says that her life is poetry... Semhar recites a poem. Semhar has a confessional about being put on the spot, and having to step up. Ozzy likes it, thinks she's beautiful and incredibly talented... tells us so in confessional. He'd like someone like her along side him in the game....Then he tells his tribe, that he's had a few tribes, but THIS is the best tribe EVER!!!! ....I think, hmmm, maybe he has learned from Rob, take a weak player through, one that you can beat?

Ozzy tells him that this is the best tribe, but we don't have to break our necks working, let's enjoy this and go for a swim....Going for a swim sends Cochran into an anxiety attack. We see Papa Bear skipping in, followed by all of the others, and Elyse says, just pull them off, like a band-aid...Cochran gets funny confessionals. But, they are all about his insecurities, really. He knows he's on the 90210 tribe, and he's not one of them.

Meanwhile, over at Camp Upolu, they arrive....Coach gives them a pep talk, he's not strategic and he's too honest, that's his downfall, he's not coming after anyone...and immediately start asking what everyone does and getting to know each other. Coach finds a new coach, and the rancher...Sophie says she just graduated college with a Russian major and she and Coach speak some Russian...another bond. Coach seems to be relating to everyone on his tribe, while I don't know about OZZY.

Clearly, both tribes acknowledge the knowledge that the returnees can offer regarding building shelters and camp. They naturally look to them for leadership. Sophie tells us so in confessional. Then we see Coach guiding and encouraging all of his tribemates and they bond and get along. Coach shows Edna about sugar cane, Edna likes Coach, in confessional he's a team player. Then Christine goes off looking of firewood and they see her looking for the idol, and she gets the confessional about the idol....Coach calls her out, she's the one that noted he's a temporary player and Coach notes in confessional, she's target number one....


Back at the swimming Savaiis....Jim notes the hot girls. JIm says that he's a teacher. A high school forensics teacher. Cut to confessional and Jim says that he really has an MBA, he's a professional gambler, and he owns 2 medical marijuana dispenseries. He likes all of the hot women. Someone asks who's married, and Mark says call me Papa Bear and I have a boyfriend, I'm gay. Mark has a confessional that discloses he's gay and if they are not ok with it, tough. He's a team player and hopefully they will keep him. Ozzy then says, let's get the fire going...Dawn notes that they appear to be forming a bond, but coming into today she had these hopes that the shelter would get built, not having it done, worries her. Ozzy tells her, we'll be fine. She continues in confessional, she has 6 kids, she's used to being in charge, then we see Ozzy tell Jim, honestly, if it doesn't rain tonight, I'll be fine sleeping on the ground... Dawn had a great confessional about she's used to being in charge, and it seems that we should have a leader and Ozzy, he seems like he's a little "Bob Marley" for her....bingo.

Dawn has hit the nail on the head. This tribe has NO leader because Ozzy is not an alpha or a leader. But, Dawn just said that she is used to being in charge....so, I think, Dawn, take charge and Ozzy will follow...could the editing be setting up this scenario? After all, Dawn notes, "I'm a planner, and I'm not sure Bob Marley is."

Upolu and they note LOCO on Brandon's neck. He's not crazy, but was bullyish in HS, and he's really not like that, he grew up, God's number one. Coach notes that Mikayla is a pretty girl and he says, "I don't know, that's Delilah to me..."Then we see Mikayla climb up on the roof, working on the shelter, she says in confessional she's a tree climber, we need to get down and dirty and fix the shelter, she has no patience just wants to get stuff done, we see Brandon noting her, he doesn't feel comfortable around her the way she carries herself and flaunts herself, he's found God, he's young, married, gentleman, doesn't want to get in a situation that he knows he can get in trouble in....

Cut to night time, and the five, Coach, Rick, Brandon, Sophie, and Albert are around talking and gazing at the stars and Coach notes about the five there, and how it's a good time to align, that five is the most powerful and can get through anything together, and there is no stronger alliance than the one made on day one...Coach had the confessional about winning the immunities and the strong five....Albert says that the four people sitting here are the four people that I have gotten the best vibe from....Coach ends with that Coach 3.0 will not do anything sneaky but he's here to win....

In the AM of day 2, Dawn is up and starting to boil the water with Semhar and spills it...she is freaking out. She didn't sleep, it's starting out rocky, she's used to drinking water and she's cramping....We see her confiding to Pappa Bear...he soothes her and says that she has to stay strong, they are the oldest and have to stick together, he will stand with her....everything that is familiar to her is gone, she never cries but she is now. For the first time she feels old...Then we see her trying to get vines and she falls down, saying that she's ok. She goes to Ozzy for guidance. He is trying his best to console her. THis has nothing to do with the game, this is 2 people talking...(shot of Whitney watching them). Dawn continues, the person that has the breakdown goes..Cut to Pappa Bear confessional, he's going to support her, won't turn his back on her....then,.Ozzy responds something inside of you is negative and you have to overcome it, don't listen to it. He says as long as you don't quit, you will be in this game....stay strong. Ozzy in confessional needs to calm her nerves because he is the anchor at this point....don't let it get to you, feel it and let it go....He tells her he'll go and catch her some fish. Ozzy had a great confessional at the end of this meeting, where he tells us that Dawn needs to get this out of her head, if she does, she could be a crucial and powerful ally, but if she can't, then she could very well be going home....it ends with Elyse watching her....

I still think Ozzy and Dawn will get together. I think she will end up getting herself together and being a crucial ally for Ozzy. It would be wonderful if she could be the one in charge and Ozzy could be the provider/athlete/follower. I do think this may just pan out. Seems like alot of editing is invested in these two....

Then we have Semhar talking about the ash toothpaste... Then Ozzy has a confessional. This morning, I feel like we need to start getting things together, as we see him pulling palms, he knows that he'll be ok, but for everybody else, the elements, the stress, the not eating, the daily labor of camp life, it's going to start wearing on people (we see Dawn, Whitney, and Semhar), it already has. But right now we really just have to keep a strong tribe...Survivor 101. He then looks over at Elyse, wow, look at you, as she chops the coconut....John wants to try it and Elyse guides him. Ozzy looks on and continues in confessional. He's a little skeptical of Mr. Cochran, he doesn't seem to have the most on the physical side. Then cut to Cochran noting that he hopes his social game will overshadow the down side....he asks is charm and humor enough to want to keep somebody around? He hopes so!

Upolu, Day 3

See Brandon fishing with his t shirt on, catches a minnow and calls for a bag...he wants to be a provider it will be to his advantage....he won't reveal he's RussHell Hantz' nephew...So far this seems to be his only story. Clearly, he's going to spill it....hope it's sooner rather than later, because I don't like this story.

Sophie confessional...she thinks she has a great alliance right now, she's in good shape, she thinks they are all sincere, but Brandon, she's a little more worried about...she has a gut feeling that he's hiding something...

Sophie we are shown has a good gut, and we should trust it and possibly her, because they are validating her opinion. We, the audience is shown that she is an intuitive and perceptive person, 2 qualities that are good on Survivor.

Then we have the challenge. Clearly, Coach is the one that strategizes the best. Saying that they needed a strong person to get up first on the wall...they chose Rick, while the Savaii lifted up Whitney first. Again, Coach is taking the leader role and succeeding. Clearly, Semhar dragged behind, and Cochran was horrible at the wall. Semhar was pathetic at the throwing portion.

Dawn seen in close up cheering for Ozzy...think these two will join up....Upolu wins, hands the idol to Coach. Jiffy tells both tribes that the Upolu has a clue hidden there at camp somewhere.

Jim calls Semhar out and I think he was dead on. She feels sorta bad...he feels worse than sorta bad...TC, someone will be the first person voted out, see Ozzy, Dawn, John...Jim has confessional about Semhar and how badly she did.

Back at Upolu Coach tells them all that they are all thriving. Then Christine gets the confessional about the clue to the HII. So far she is the one that is associated with the idol, I wouldn't be surprised if she is the one that finds it. Stacey got a confessional about it being right under her nose and sure enough, she looked right in the hole in the tree, right where it indeed was.

Savaii: Jim and Semhar have words. Ozzy still likes Semhar, and thinks that Cochran is the weakest physical person and therefore a liability, but Jim thinks that Ozzy may want to align with the girls. He really wants Semhar to go. Ozzy tells Semhar that she needs to go and politick to stay in this game. Jim tells Cochran he needs to fend for himself. Dawn and Papa bear discuss the boot and they agree on Semhar...

Semhar goes to defend herself to Whitney and Keith, who both lie to her...then we see a slimey lizard, and then Jim telling John and Papa bear that they want you gone, Ozzy thinks that you are the best target right now...Why, you are the weakest...who does Ozzy think is going to vote me out? Jim says he's just pushing for it, he's just trying to see how much clout he has...

Then Cochran tells us his achilles heel is his crippling insecurities...I think UGH. He is on high alert, paranoia mode...Papa Bear tells him, it's not you....Survivor is a nightmare, it started as a dream, but it's a nightmare. And then he goes on about his Survivor story...

When Jiffy said, when your fire's gone, then so are you, the camera focused on Ozzy, then when he said with the exception of RI, focus camera on Keith, then panned to Semhar. with Jeff first asks Dawn if there is any talk about RI, she says that it's hard with 9, solo will be tough. How bad did it get, she didn't feel like she even knew who she was anymore....she lost confidence with all that change, she cried and she is really strong and never cries, she confided in Ozzy, kind of like she had the flu, now it's gone.

Elyse, who else got off to a rough start? Semhar, because of the way the challenge went today and because of the conversation that we had when we got back...Jim tells Jeff that he's a competitor, he hates losing, she wanted to go and do it, confident at it, he thinks the only good losers are losers. Whitney says she was vocal about her abilities so I didn't have to go in. Semhar is defensive. Ozzy says he'd rather play with the person that has the heart to step up and try. It's a huge advantage in this game. Dawn tells Jeff that Cochran may be in trouble because of strength.

Cochran goes on and on...papa Bear said he got confused for 2 seconds, you hesitated, tells him to go with it, and sometime you need direction. Sorry.

Cochran goes on now, forgets Semhar's name, he's nervous, tells her she stands by the pot 10 hours a day...he is in the growing pain period and he's an eager student...he learns things once and then he does it...culmination of 11 years of passion towards this game. He'll be your genie in a bottle, see a whole new Cochran, she doesn't have this same passion for this game. Semhar thinks this works against him.

Keith says we have to base this on three days, it's a small window to get to know you in this game....As Jeff tally's papa Bear comforts both bootee choices....

Semhar is first voted out. Ozzy whispers that he should have taught her to make fire...you can hear her crying as she goes....Cochran whispers to Dawn, thank you. Jeff says that it appears that you made the decision that a person can improve....goodnight.

My thoughts:

Clearly the stars of Redemption Island Part deux are: Ozzy and Coach. They both were the narrators of all the events at their respective tribes. Clearly, Savaii was thrilled to get Ozzy and Ozzy was very excited to get them. Ozzy came into this game to play strategically, but I feel that he does NOT want to be the leader. He knows he is their anchor, and that they are all asking him about everything they should do. Clearly, Ozzy doesn't feel comfortable in this role. I think his approach was let's enjoy and kick back, but then Dawn started with her anxiety on Day 2, and I think it was a slap in the face for Ozzy. He realizes that he has to keep them all strong and that they all need the shelter. He needs to step up and get moving. I say, better late than never.

We all know that Ozzy will fill the provider role up in a big way. Then regarding the boot, Ozzy suggested they vote out Cochran, as he was the weakest physically. Jim, had other plans. Jim is someone to watch, imo, as he was able to sway everyone's vote to Semhar. It was unanimous for her. Ozzy was wise to concede his opinion to go along with the majority. I think Ozzy has alot of learning still to do. It will be interesting if all of his first impressions turn out to be wrong...a strong tribe, Semhar and her beautiful poetry, not building the shelter right away....so far Ozzy seems more out of whack than Coach, imo.

I feel like Bob Marley's tribe is desperate for a leader. Ozzy has never been a leader. I think that Jim could fill that role, but does he want to? I think that Dawn could be a leader, she's used to being in charge, but will they let her. I think that Ozzy and Dawn will be aligned and bonded while they are there.

I am very disappointed in Cochran. He's horrible at the challenges. He doesn't know how to read his tribemates or how or when to keep his mouth shut. I don't think his argument to stay in the game is worthy either. I suspect he's in trouble. He had the same amount of confessionals as Coach...I don't know if they are making him one of the stars of the show because they like him and he'll be gone soon OR, if he'll be a star throughout the show. He's perplexing. He got the very first confessional of the newbies and that usually spells something? I think there needs to be some serious drama at camp Savaii in order for him to make it through the next time they go to TC....he needs to work hard and fly under the radar....big time.

After Cochran, Dawn had the most confessionals. I think she will end up being a player, especially if she aligns with Ozzy. I have hope that she will return to being in charge, but I don't know.

Mark, Papa Bear had 3 confessionals. He seems like a very supportive player, but at some point he'll have to make a stand. Very nurturing, and I think will bond with the underdogs in a big way...

Jim had 2 confessionals and I liked him. I related to him the most. I loved that he told them he was a forensic science teacher at the HS level. He is smitten with the girls....Semhar has a mesmerizing body, not hypnotizing...his assessments are right on as well. She needed to go, he also thought perhaps that Ozzy wanted all of the girls in an alliance and he thought best to break that up. I don't disagree. He could turn in to the leader, but I don't know. Clearly, he's getting in to a power position directing the vote. Surely, Cochran must feel some loyalty to him. I hope that he can make end game.

Semhar got a confessional or two, but this was her boot ep, and we got to see her shine during her poetry recitation. Jiffy was spot on, imo.

We got one confessional from Elyse, and that was one of the first confessionals of the show. One about her relatives being Native American. Interesting, makes me think that she may have some longevity. She was very present throughout the show. She was right by Ozzy 's side in the water, and Ozzy was seen admiring her talents in chopping coconuts. She was nice to John when coaxing him into the water, and she taught John how to chop the coconuts.

Whitney and Keith received no confessionals but their presence was also noted. Whitney noted she was a song writer from Nashville, she was seen going into the water and she too planted herself right next to Ozzy. She was the first one over in the challenge wall, and she was seen when Dawn was crying to Ozzy.

Keith seems like a very laid back, strong and physical guy. Surprising that he had no confessionals. He lied to Semhar when he was against the wall, and he spoke truthfully at TC. I don't know if he'll make end game, but I think he'll be needed through the merge.

Overall I think the Savaii tribe is the weaker tribe physically. I would bet that Ozzy can hold his own in any challenge, and more than likely can win puzzles as well. We haven't seen enough from the others in this tribe to know their strengths and weaknesses. This tribe needs a leader and they need the physically stronger if they want some numbers at the merge. For this latter reason I think Ozzy, Keith, and Jim are safe through the merge. I would be very nervous if I was Cochran or Papa Bear.

Tribe Savaii:

Coach had the most confessionals of this tribe. He was shown in a VERY positive light, imo. He got the message loud and clear that he was not welcome. He treaded lightly, and I think successfully. He rose to the leader role, in contrast to Ozzy. He coached and stroked them as he guided them in building the shelter. He talked strategy on day one and got himself into an alliance of 5. That's far more than we saw at Savaii. He also seems like he's picked up a pet dog, I mean teenager, in the game as well, in young Brandon. He was also shown to be an adept strategizer in the challenge, where as Ozzy fell short. So far it appears that Ozzy, while starting off with a bang, fizzled in the leader role, while Coach started off with conflict, but has smoothed the waters and ended up faring more favorably. At least that's my take.

We know that he has some enemies in Christine, who appears to be aligning with Stacey. These two will come head to head perhaps. She told Coach he's temporary, while he has labeled her boot humber one. Christine received 2 confessionals and they were both wrapped up in the idol. Wouldn't surprise me to see her find it next ep. She seems like she'll have trouble keeping her mouth shut. She could be short for this game.

Stacey received one of the first confessionals of the game as a mother and for coming in with her eyes wide open. She seems athletic but serious. I don't know how she'll fit in and it's a social game. If there is negativity, she may be right in the middle of it. Her one confessional in the game was that she most likely came face to face with the idol but didn't see it, and yes, that's what happened. I don't think that bodes well for longevity. I think it's foreshadowing, she won't see the writing on the wall.

Brandon had the next highest confessional count after Coach, and it's fitting that he's the semi-celebrity, being RussHell's nephew. To me, he is ridiculous. He's a 19 year old kid, working on an oil rig, married, with a child, covered in tats, claiming to be a God-fearing Christian, who calls Mikayla Delijlah...He is like a broken record...my uncle didn't play a good social game, and I'm never taking my tee shirt off. Meanwhile, it's already been told to us that he'll reveal himself next week. He's got ALOT of growing up to do. Maybe if he lasts a while this show could help him...who knows. Frankly, I wouldn't mind if his tribe cuts him loose after the reveal, but, I'm afraid he'll be here for a while. Seems like they have some greater personalities to deal with at Upolu. Seems like he's latching onto Coach, which could help him perhaps.

Sophie had several astute confessionals, which served to validate her intuition and her assessments. I think she appears to be playing a smart game and is situated quite nicely. I think she may have some longevity.

Mikayla had one confessional about building the shelter and being a tomboy. I think she did very well in the challenge. Brandon is afraid of her. She's not in the majority alliance, but she is one of the strongest women. I expect her to make the merge.

Rick seemed to do very well, especially in the challenge. He had two confessionals. One was in regard to not liking Coach, and he made fun of the Dragon Slayer. But, Coach and Rich appeared to work well together when they were building the shelter, and Rick is in the majority alliance. I think Rick is in good shape. He also had a beginning confessional. He kept his personality in check I think and was quite pleasant. I don't see him as an early boot.

Edna: Was nice to Coach, and had one confessional about how positive Coach was. Didn't seem to physical in the challenge.

Albert: Had no confessionals. Did very well in the challenge, and is in the majority alliance. Has bonded with Coach, who respects the warriors. He'll most likely be in trouble around merge time.

All in all I thought that the Upolu tribe seems like a cohesive group, as well as more physical tribe. They are thriving with one leader. But, with time, will more alphas rear their heads, and if they do, will they gun for each other? The Savaii's need a leader. Ozzy was late to start, but I really think this tribe will do better if a leader emerges. Will it be Jim? Could it be Dawn? This should be interesting. If I had to GUESS, I would put these folks in the early boot mode: Christine, Stacey, John Cochran, Papa Bear, Edna

Middle of the road boots: Brandon, Rick, Albert, Keith, Mikayla

Jury and beyond: Ozzy, Coach, Whitney, Jim, Dawn, Elyse, Sophie

We shall see...

"RE: Post Episode 1, Survivor 23"
Posted by Belle Book on 09-16-11 at 07:55 PM
Hope Edna lasts longer than you think, Flowerpower.

Come play my new game: Big Brother: What If? at the following link: http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID7/1612.shtml

"RE: Post Episode 1, Survivor 23"
Posted by michel on 09-17-11 at 12:36 PM
I'll be back to comment on your post FP, but I wanted to get my thoughts out before being influenced by yours:

This season opened with the returning “Heroes”.

Coach: “I’ve played this game twice, I haven’t been successful…It’s one more shot for me to prove that I can win this game and that it can be done with honor and integrity.”

Ozzy: “I’ve been the guy that’s able to climb coconut tress and hunt fish and I’ve been really strong in challenges but I don’t think I’ve had the best strategy…I need redemption because I feel I haven’t been able to lock my hands on the million dollars.”

Is this why, pre-season, Jeff said we’d see in the first few minutes that Ozzy may have learned a few things but Coach hasn’t? If so, I guess he didn’t watch the rest of the episode. I do find it interesting that Ozzy speaks of redemption though; a first indication he may spend time on its island.

Then, we meet the newbies, none had their name on screen but we started with

Cochran: “I am the most Survivor savvy player to ever play the game. I’ve never missed an episode…”

Elyse: “I don’t have a great background in outdoorsmen activities but I am part Native-American so I’m hoping that in my ancestral background the spirits will impart on me some wisdom.”

Now, if she starts wearing a feather and walking around in fuschia underwear, I’ll start to worry! But it is noteworthy that we had this personal touch from Elise on an episode where she wasn’t featured. Cochran had to be shown since he was a boot target but the personal touch gives the impression we will see him last a while.

Rick: “I’m 51 years old, I own my own ranch in Utah. If you didn’t train before you got here, if you didn’t run, if you didn’t learn to build a fire…pbbbbbt! You may as well spit in the wind.”

Stacey: “I’m 44 years old. I’m a funeral director mortician… Being the mother that I am, I will keep my eyes and ears open. You think I am sleeping, I am not sleeping. I’ll be nosey as hell.”

Brandon: “I’m Russell Hantz’s nephew. It’s like being related to Hitler…I came out here to change the course of the Hantz family name.

After Jeff’s usual lines, we went to commercial. Note that all 5 newby interview were designed to give us character background but had very little about the game or the theme of the season. They could all be early boots or go much further but only Cochran gave me the impression he could last a while.

While the players wondered who would be joining them, we saw Edna leaning over to Brandon and telling him: “I hope it’s not Russell.”

Brandon: “The lady next to me said she hoped it wouldn’t be Russell. I will never, ever, tell them my last name.”

That sounded like this could be the nephew’s main storyline. It made me think he will be discovered and then voted out.

Savaii agreed that they would greet these people as part of the family which could be ironic if things turn poorly for Ozzy.

Mikayla: “The helicopter comes in and you see Coach and you see Ozzy and, of course, right off the bat, you are like: Ozzyyyyy! He’s just an amazing athlete, someone you’d want to have on your tribe. Coach, he’s going to be so loony and out there, he’s just going to be nuts.”

Note that, besides Hantz’s nephew, Mikayla is the first true newby to get a credited interview and it also touches the theme of the season. And, as an editing staple, it was used for its irony because she wound up with Coach. That makes me wonder if Mikayla will thrive, ironically, because she happened to be on Coach’s tribe?

Asked for a reaction by Jeff, Christine said: “They are temporary players.”

That was the error committed by Francesca last season so I wonder how it will work for Christine.

Cochran was also pointed out and he explained why he’d like to be called by his last name. He also admitted he was a huge fan of the game.

Cochran: “I couldn’t be happier that it was Ozzy on my tribe…”

Rick: “I didn’t want to see Coach’s egg bleed blue…He’s in his forties.”

Interestingly, three people have now had 2 interviews. Brandon, Cochran and Rick seem to take more importance than the others…

Coach: “I’m not getting a good vibe from the blue tribe…”

Ozzy: “I felt I was received a lot more warmly than Coach. They look like a good, strong tribe.”

Could this turn out to be completely false?

When Jeff explained the rules of RI, we saw Cochran, Ozzy, Coach, Stacey and Sophie. When he talked about re-entering the game, we then saw Mark, Albert and Rick. Would the editors use the same camera work to tell us who would be going to Redemption Island and who would return? Maybe not but I still wanted to keep track of those that were shown.

The Hero Challenge.

Ozzy got stuck on the puzzle so he asked for help. Jim yelled out good directions.

Jeff: “This is how Survivor works right here: Teamwork. What started out as a Hero duel is now a tribe challenge.

In defeat, Edna came over and offered to help Coach carry his bags.

Coach: “I lost the challenge, my tribe walks off and one person stops and helps me. Everybody else is like: “Don’t let the door smack you’re ##### on the way out. I have to come face to face with that biggest fear: You are going home first.”

We know that Coach won’t be the first to leave, in fact the episode will show he could have found a nice niche in Upolu, so my idea is that he will thrive more than Ozzy.

Savaii
Day 1

Ozzy: “I think it’s nice to have played this game a few times and know what’s ahead of you… They want me to tell them how to do everything but I am trying to play a strategic game this time.”

Cochran, Whitney and Semhar got to tell us their occupation, Semhar even reciting a poem.

Semhar: “I was put on the spot.”

Ozzy asked her to repeat her name which would come in handy later in the voting booth.

Ozzy: “Semhar is not only beautiful to look at but when she did her poem, I thought it was beautiful…I respect her passion and I would like to have someone like that with me for the long haul.”

The irony of the first episode continues to develop and it didn’t help that Ozzy told the tribe they had the advantage and didn’t need to work too hard, that they should go swimming. As experience as he may be, he sounded like John from Galu! But his suggestion led to the funniest scene of the evening:

Cochran: “Ozzy’s suggestion was to just have fun in the ocean. The only option was to get out there in our underwear and I was really opposed to doing this. I have this really pale skin…I wasn’t crazy about the idea of going in the water; it’s only going to make me more like the pathetic twerp that I am with my clothes on… What I have to do is focus on the positive, visualize success and get these negative thoughts out of my head.”

This would be an amazing million dollar quote? Could Cochran’s little pep talk lead to what he will be doing in the game? I guess it would be too amazing but one can hope.
(His run in the ocean reminded me of Amanda running to meet a returning James!)

Upolu

Coach: “When I lost the challenge…I was afraid.”

Sophie: “I’m a Russian economics major, Coach… he’s ready to show off what he has but at the same time you cannot deny the situation: Coach has been out here twice before, he knows some things..”

Edna: “I like Coach. I think he’s a team player and he’s working well with others and he’s showing us little tricks. Right now, I think he’s an asset.”

Christine said she would go look for firewood but started looking for a hidden idol. The tribe noticed, so Christine, after repeating Francesca’s error with the returning players now makes Kristina’s error of getting caught looking for an idol.

Christine: “I’m a big fan of Survivor so I have to assume that there is an immunity idol. I don’t think I need it but it’s nice to have in your back pocket.”

Coach: “Christine scares me the most. She said, right off the bat: You are a temporary player. Now she’s looking for a immunity idol. When I came on the beach, I wasn’t thinking about the idol, I was thinking of putting a shelter up. So, no doubt about it, Christine is target number one.”

Savaii

Jim: “…We have three girls on our tribe that are as hot as hell. Bikini Time. Loved it…I’m not a teacher: I have a MBA, I won over 20 poker tournaments and I own two marijuana dispensary but I’m not going to tell them that. Why would I?”

Mark: “I’m here for the million dollars just like everybody else but I’m here for another reason. I’m older than most of them and I am experiencing life free of anything that would restrict me. Being gay is who I am if they don’t like that, Pfffut! It’s not about being gay, it’s about Surviving. I’m a team player so, hopefully, they will see that and they are going to keep me.”

Dawn: “It seems like the tribe is forming bonds but, coming here, I had these hopes that we would really be organized…When I don’t see the shelter up by day one, it worries me…I have 6 kids, I’m used to being in charge…We should have a leader and Ozzy is a little like Bob Marley. I’m a planner and I’m not sure Bob Marley is.”

Upolu

Coach and Mikayla noticed Brandon’s Loco tattoo.

Brandon: “…At one point in my life, I kinda was crazy…I was like Russell in High school, I was bullying everybody…I grew up a lot. God’s number one for me.”

Mikayla: “We are doing the shelter and we needed to get the top done. Me and my brothers used to climb trees when we were younger so I just got up there and started doing it. When the time comes, we got to get down and dirty. This is a game and you can’t be a little princess.”

Brandon: “I don’t feel comfortable around Mikayla, the way she carries herself, the way she flaunts herself off.”

Great! Not only is the devil’s nephew a God fanatic, he’s even a little bit of a taliban.

Upolu
Night 1

Coach: “There was five of us that was sitting out by the canoe (we saw Brandon, Rick, Albert and Sophie in Coach’s alliance) and it was kind of like a feel-out session, trying to get to know everybody.” To the group, he said: “If you have a strong five, you can go far even if you are down in numbers at the merge.” His interview continued: “There’s not going to be another chance in this game where the five of us to just sit down and talk so that’s why I pounced on it about how we can go and play this game together.”

Albert agreed, saying he liked the vibe between the five.
Coach added: “First day alliances are the most solid.” His interview ended with him telling us he was here to win.

What could be the purpose to show us this alliance in an episode where Upolu wasn’t going to tribal council? It’s strange that the editors let us see that Coach wasn’t in immediate danger anymore but this put some players in the underdog category: Christine, Edna, Mikayla and Stacey are in the minority and, while one of them will probably be an early boot, it could be good for a couple of them. Survivor loves an underdog so we will have to see how the four evolve from here.

Savaii
Day 2

Dawn spilled the pot of boiling water, extinguishing the fire in the process. It led to her breakdown.

Dawn: “I think day 2 for me started off really rocky. I really didn’t sleep and so I think I may have a mini-breakdown.”

She went to Mark for reassurance and he told her to be strong because they were the two oldest people.
Dawn’s attempts at gathering vines didn’t go well either as she fell.
She then went to Ozzy for comfort.

Mark: “Dawn was crying and that scares the crap out of me because Dawn and I are older than most people out there…Crying is viewed as a weakness but I will support her. I won’t turn my back on her because everybody has emotions.”

Ozzy: “I had a conversation with Dawn and she is a little bit scattered, a little bit frazzled… And, whatever I can do to calm her nerves is my job at this point. I am the anchor…If she can start to trust me, she could be a very important and crucial ally. If Dawn doesn’t get it together, she could very well be going home.”

That was a nice example of teamwork from Mark while Ozzy sounded good at first but we soon heard his cold-hearted side. What does this scene mean to Dawn’s story? It could go in one of three directions: She’ll be an early boot like Tocantins’ Sandy, she will quit like Micronesia’s Kathleen or she will recover like Nicaragua’s Holly. It’s too early to tell but there was a nice feel to Dawn’s story, nothing of the silliness associated with Sandy and Kathleen’s early showing so I think she can last.

Savaii
Day 3

Semhar distributed some sticks to serve as toothbrush while Ozzy was working on the shelter.

Ozzy: “I definitely feel like we have to get things together. I know, for my own sake, I am going to be OK. For everbody else, the elements, the stress, the not eating the daily labor of camplife of is wearing on people and it already has. Right now, we just have to keep a strong tribe. That is just Susrvivor 101.”

Next, Cochran asked Elyse to give him advice on cutting a coconut. Elyse was the one that said she didn’t know the outdoors so there was irony in seeing her showing Cochran what to do. It didn’t escape Ozzy’s eyes.

Ozzy: “I’m a little skeptical of Mr Cochran. He doesn’t seem he has the most to offer on the physical side of things.”

Cochran: “I’m not the strongest guy but I think I have enough social game to overcome any deficits that I have. People seem to like me a lot. Is charm and humor enough to keep somebody around? I hope it is.”

And, with that, we have the first real conflict on Savaii. It seems like an unfair fight but our experience with the way this show is edited says that Mr. Cochran could very well come out ahead of Ozzy. The scene felt like it had more long-term implications than only to set up this episode’s boot.

Upolu
Day 3

Brandon while he was seen fishing, gave us this interview: “My uncle Russell lacked in the social game but I want to do what my uncle never did: I’m trying to provide for my tribe. It’s just going to be to my advantage.Even if we have our alliance of 5, I will never reveal that I am Russell Hatnz’s nephew… I don’t want to be judged by my uncle’s reputation.”

Sophie: “I think I have a really great advantage right now because I have this really strong alliance where I think that at least a couple of people there are really, really sincere. Brandon, I am a little more worried about because I have this gut feeling that he is hiding something.”

With Brandon wanting to keep his identity secret and Sophie telling us she knows he jas a secret, we are witnessing a storyline reminiscent of the one in Guatemala where Gary’s secret was discovered by Danni. Will Sophie be as successful?

Immunity Challenge.

I think it was important to note that Coach gave instructions to his tribe, something Mariano was often shown doing.
For Savaii, we heard that Ozzy was interrupted by Semhar who said she was good at shooting basket. Their huddle was less efficient.
We saw that Cochran had trouble at the wall while Albert showed his strength, pulling Brandon all the way up by the arms.
Jeff said: “Ozzy’s going to go at it alone.” (what about Teamwork?)
After making a shot, Semhar started to get tired.
Mikayla was “a scoring machine” and she was shown making the shot that won it for Upolu.
Semhar had to apologize to her tribe while Mark was heard saying they would get them next time.

Asked how she felt by Jeff, Semhar said she felt sort of bad. That caused Jim to shake his head in disbelief. He commented that: “Sort of bad? I feel worse than sort of bad. I feel sort of bad when I’m out of milk, I feel like crap now that we have to vote somebody out.“

Jim: “I’m pissed that we lost. She shoots two baskets and she wants a sub? This isn’t tag-team wrestling, this is Survivor and she chose to do it. She was adamant about what she wanted to do. She failed so there’s no reason to keep Semhar.”

Upolu

Christine had an interview while Coach was speaking about the tribe’s success: “We won the challenge today but I think that. underneath the celebratory tone, there is an uneasiness because Jeff mentioned the immunity idol clue hidden at camp. The game has started and it might get ruthless.”

Everyone started looking for the clue.
Stacey: “That immunity idol is here somewhere but there is a lot of somewhere it could be... It could be right in our face and we don’t know it.”
Indeed, the camera showed us that Syacey had looked in the right spot, a hollow tree, but had missed the roll of paper.

Savaii

Semhar apologized to the tribe but went after Jim for pushing her down when she already felt bad.

Semhar: “Something that might hold me back is that I am extremely honest…”

Dawn after talking to Mark about keeping each other safe, told us: “Having started this game very emotionally I think the tribe is going to be looking at me and think that outbreak, being emotional like that, is a liability to the tribe…”

Mark and Dawn agreed they should be voting against Semhar.
Ozzy had a different idea. He didn’t think that Semhar should go just because of one challenge. While Whitney, Elyse and Keith listened in silence, Jim spoke up, saying the tribe wouldn’t agree with Ozzy.

Ozzy: “You got Cochran on one hand who didn’t show much in the physicality sense and you have Semhar on the other, she basically blew the challenge for us. It’s not fair to blame Semhar.”

Jim: “Semhar knows she’s on the chopping block tonight. Here’s my concern: Ozzy wants her around for a reason. It’s round one and it scares me that he already has a reason to keep her around. I’m concerned that Ozzy could get in an alliance with all the girls. He’s got charm, I can see that happening. But, Semhar is pretty much useless. Her body is mesmerizing but it isn’t hypnotizing. It blows my mind that Ozzy could be factoring in the snuggle factor in a million dollar decision.”

Semhar went to Whitney and Keith for reassurance.
Jim told Cochran that they wanted him gone. Mark tried to reassure him.

Cochran: “My Achille’s heel is crippling insecurity and anxiety. It’s heartbreaking to learn that apparently Ozzy thinks that I am the weakest person and that they should get rid of me for that. Right now, I am in high alert, paranoia mode and extremely depressed. To be the first person kicked off when I’m on a tribe with Popa Bear and Semhar and all these girls? This is insulting. This is a nightmare… Tribal council is going to suck… I’m probably going to hear that the tribe has spoken, my torch will be snuffed and I’m going to be sent to redemption island like an idiot. It’s just going to be a sad conclusion to my Survivor story.”

Tribal Council

Asked about Redemption Island, Dawn said: “It’s hard with 9 people so solo? Tough.”
She told Jeff about her breakdown.
Elyse told Jeff that Semhar was concerned because of how the challenge went.
Jim explained that he hated losing. “Semhar wanted to prove herself and she was confident in her abilities and I think the only people who are good losers are people that are good at losing.’
Whitney said she was glad the attention wasn’t on her, adding: “I definitely thought I could do it but when she was so vocal about her abilities, no one else really had a chance to jump in and say I can do it.”
Semhar said she knew she would have been safe if she hadn’t stepped upo but she wanted to give it all she had.
Ozzy said he prefered to play with the person that had the guts to step up and try.
Dawn told Jeff that Cochran was another target.
Cochran, stammering, said: “It’s easy to say that I’m one of the weakest but I flew over that net portion like a hummingbird. I had a snaffu climbing the wall but it lasted like a half second.”
After telling Jeff he liked to be called Popa Bear, Mark explained that Cochran hesitated. It wasn’t a fatal mistake but he’d need to make a decision and go with it.
Semhar said that Cochran’s name had come up.
Turning to Jeff, Cochran pleaded: “You better not say it’s time to vote right now.” Cochran then questioned Semhar’s working abilities while he was learning what to do. He explained his 11 year passion and that it would be mortifying to be the first one voted out.
Keith said the vote had to be based on what they had seen for the last 3 days.

During the vote, the camera focused on Ozzy, Semhar, Cochran and Jim: The two targets and the leaders of each faction.
When Jeff went to collect the urn, we saw Mark hugging both Semhar and Cochran who were sitting next to him.
With a 8-1 vote against Semhar, we saw that Ozzy had to give in to Jim’s side. Was it a capitulation, a coming to terms or a battle delayed?
While we heard Semhar’s tears as she walked down the stairs, we heard Ozzy saying he should have taught her how to make a fire and we had Cochran thanking Dawn.

Jeff’s final words were: “It appears that you made the decision to believe that a person can improve. Let’s hope it goes for the entire tribe.”

The Story

Jeff comment about Teamwork made me think that a big theme of this season was going to show that cooperation works while selfish actions turn against their authors. It could lead to an alliance of hard-working players going to the end.
Another theme to explore was delivered by Cochran when he said he had to “focus on the positive, visualize success and get these negative thoughts out of my head.” If this is indeed a theme this season then the winner will probably have a much harder road to victory than a Fabio or a Rob.

The Characters :


Semhar: She could return to the game but it is highly unlikely so I won’t waste time analyzing her episode.

The Bench Warmers
Elyse : She did have an opening confessional but her role in the episode was so limited that I think her confessional was just to add to the comedy of seeing how poorly Cochran was doing. She has no outdoors skills yet she was teaching him how to open a coconut. Until we see a story developing around her we have to assume she is not an impact player, just another member of the roster that sits on the bench.

Edna: She had only a small role but it was interesting that it tied her with previous players. Her first comment were to Hantz’s nephew, telling him she didn’t want Russell in her tribe and then she helped Coach after his defeat. It could indicate that her future is closely tied to one of those players in that, either like Stephanie, she goes down because she is too close to Coach or, like Natalie, she goes far by hanging on to him.

Stacey: Although seen as one of the players yelling out directions during the first challenge, Stacey was mostly shown fso that the audience could laugh at how close she came to the clue but didn’t see it. Her opening confessional about keeping her eyes open could simply have been to set up that scene.

Keith: Despite a intervention at Tribal Council, Keith was mostly a non-factor in this episode. He was on Ozzy’s side, reassuring Semhar that she was safe but he had to give ground to Jim’s army. Can he recover or will he remain an outsider? His strength will be needed because Jim’s army isn’t very impressive, strength-wise.

Whitney: Just like the attention wasn’t on her during the challenge, the attention wasn’t on her during the whole episode except to show that she looks good in a bikini. There wasn’t anything in Whitney’s first episode to suggest she will have an impact down the road.

Albert: Although his role was insignificant, his demonstration of strength at the challenge makes him a player that you can’t leave on the bench too long. I see a challenge domination by Upolu because of Albert who could be this season’s Grant: The true hero that is hidden so the audience can root for someone else.

The Individual Players:

Christine: Her first episode made me think of a combination of Francesca and Kristina. It was nice for character development but not good for her longevity. She seems set up for an early departure because her search was followed by Coach who had a thematic interview, saying he was thinking of the team’s well-being, while she was acting selfishly, trying to find an idol for her safety.

Brandon: His story seems all tied to his secret. We have to assume that he won’t have the impact of his uncle but will fall as soon as his identity is revealed. If he survives that then we will have to reconsider his story. His attempts at being the provider could put him in the team player category but let’s say I am judging him on the reputation of his uncle. And did you see the size of that fish?!!

Ozzy: Despite some words of compassion and some actions to help the tribe, we were reminded that Ozzy is mostly about Ozzy.

The Team Players:

Rick: This season’s Jimmy T seems much more relaxed. We know he is a no-nonsense kind of guy that is also in Coach’s alliance even of he didn’t want to see Coach at first. It could be fun to see how their relationship evolves.

Dawn: I was interested to hear a negative comment about Ozzy coming from a player that had such a tough episode. And no one can argue against her assessment: As leader, Ozzy is indeed more Bob Marley than say Yul or Mariano. Her contributions during tribal Council could be the beginning of a narrator’s role for Dawn. She seems to be on a journey to prove herself but I don’t know how long that journey will last. It feels like she could have legs but it’s too early to tell.

Jim: He told us a little about himself but we mostly saw a strategic player. He immediately saw that Ozzy was building his numbers and quickly countered, building his own army. He will be a force in this game.

Sophie: She was presented as quite a player. The only character background she gave us was more to highlight Coach’s ability to speak Russian but this woman should go far. She is in Coach’s 5 and she has her eyes on Brandon so something should develop between them.

Mikayla: She had a solid episode where she was shown to be a good worker but still became the target of no less than Hantz junior. The fact that his rant came while Mikayla was taking charge of building the shelter tells me that she will outlast him. If his interview had been heard while the camera showed Mikayla sunbathing or flirting with some guys in the shelter then I’d say she was in trouble but the way it was presented favored her. Jeff’s comments at the challenge also made her noticeable in a favorable manner. She finds herself outside of Coach’s alliance but her opening confessional tied her into the returning players so there could be an interesting twist to that story.
Right now, we know that Mikayla is a beautiful woman that works hard in camp, is great at challenges and is in an underdog position. That kind of impact usually denotes long-term players.

Mark: He had the most solid episode as far as teamwork is concerned. The Popa Bear was the comforting shoulder that Dawn needed and he proved to be a force in rallying votes to save Cochran. Just considering his age, he does face a hard road to the end so he would even fit in the second theme. In addition to his connections to the theme, Mark had a very personal interview where he revealed he was gay, told us he was a team-player and it even contained a winner’s quote. Mark is someone to keep our eyes on.

Cochran: Clearly, this survivor fan seems to be on a coming-of-age story as he told us himself. Despite his fears, I think his story will come to some kind of happy conclusion. Can he win? I think it’s very unlikely and would be the biggest turnaround ever, even surpassing Chris for episode #1 target to Sole Survivor, but somehow, Cochran should come out of this adventure feeling satisfied. His vow to be a hard worker, Ozzy’s genie in a bottle, works well with the first theme of the season.

Coach: He had a solid episode, both in positioning himself within the tribe and working on the season’s theme.



"RE: Post Episode 1, Survivor 23"
Posted by Belle Book on 09-17-11 at 03:21 PM
Here are my thoughts:

Since we have reason to believe that Brandon will come clean soon about his connection to Troll, unless he has a new storyline after coming clean he'll be voted out soon afterwards.

If Coach decides to get rid of Brandon, I suspect Edna will take Brandon's place in the alliance. This means that her story will pick up once Brandon's gone. That's good news for me, as I want to root for Edna.

I doubt Cochran will win but I do think he might go far in the game!

Come play my new game: Big Brother: What If? at the following link: http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID7/1612.shtml

"RE: Post Episode 1, Survivor 23"
Posted by Round Robin on 09-18-11 at 03:22 AM
Brandon won't get the gate that soon. As much time as Uncle RussHell got on SeeBS, they won't let Brandon wash out in Ep. 3 unless he royally effs up a challenge. Probst will do what he can, maybe by the questions he asks or comments he makes at TC, to influence them to keep him around a while longer.
"RE: Post Episode 1, Survivor 23"
Posted by Flowerpower on 09-18-11 at 09:59 AM
Michel, nice to see you, sure hope you had a lovely summer. I love your take on things and as usual, you don't disappoint. I love how you separated them into team players and individual players. As always, I find myself agreeing with most of what you have to say. Thanks! I sure hope you will keep your thoughts and ideas coming.

You know, I wrote that long ep 1 post, and I really felt it was disorganized, and I didn't like posting thoughts on early, mid, and late game players. Then, I went to dabo's confessional count thread, and forced myself to look at what each person with a confessional had to say, and the story that that told. I found it lead me in a far more CLEAR direction with my thoughts so I would like to post that response here. For example, Cochran was an enigma at first to me. I found him extremely inept and even more so with his argument at TC, so it lead me to believe that he could not survive, and that perhaps he was given alot of time in the beginning because he's a character that will soon be gone. But, all of the Jiffy hype definitely made me think otherwise, he was really perplexing. But now, after sitting on all of this for a few days and then really looking at what he said, and him getting the first confessional, I feel like I have cracked it. I also posted this in the confessional thread, but clearly I think it belongs in here. In fact, I may use the meat of the confessionals along with visuals to support or negate the story from here on out.

I thought I'd try and come in and differentiate the kinds of confessionals the daws had:

The Stars: As the stars of the show, these players are featured, and most likely will be featured as long as they are in the show...they most likely will have the most confessionals. The classic example was RussHell in his season, and then Rob and RussHell last season.

Ozzy: (7) His confessionals were all about how he was going to change his game this time. He realized albeit late that his tribe did need a leader and provider, can he do it? Ozzy started out with a bang and fizzled.

Coach: (6) Coach started out rocky but landed on top, and sitting pretty. His confessionals were mostly about the vibes he got from his tribemates and how he had to woooo them. Coach 3.0 started out rocky and shined...at least in the first ep.

The semi-celebrities:

Brandon: (5) As the next semi-celebrity, at least according to SEG, he received the next most confessionals. And, every one of his confessionals was about not divulging his heritage and Uncle RUSSHELL. The lone confessional was about the God fearing Christian boy who is afraid of Delijlah.

I think Brandon's story is all about RussHell and how he's different. I think he's setting himself up to be quite a nice little goat-boy. As long as a relative of Russhell's is around, they will aim for someone over me. When he divulges his name, I think he'll be a goat that has legs. BAAAAAAHHHHHH!

Cochran: (5) He is one of Jeff's favorites. He asks can someone be kept around on their basic charm, comedic skills and humor alone? The way he was one of the stars on the first episode, I would now bet on it. We know how Survivor loves an underdog, and let's face it, they painted him an underdog with a serious UNDER. So much so, that my first impression of him was TOAST. Now, I'm on board that he will be a real player in this season.

Supporting players:
Dawn: (3) Had a meltdown and we heard it in her confessionals. She also spoke about Bob Marley, Ozzy. She's used to being in charge and a planner. She's telling us she's a leader in RL. Ozzy told us she could be a "crucial ally". Can't help but to wonder if these two will align. If Ozzy wants to survive he needs to let someone else lead, at least strategically.

Dawn is also intertwined with Papa Bear (3). He was seen as a very supportive and nurturing character to Dawn and to Cochran. It appears that the three underdogs may stick together? They are all tied together and I wonder if they will bond more so and become a force within their tribe. Cochran needs a mother and a father out there, will Papa Bear and Dawn rise to the occasion? If they joined with Ozzy, they'd have their "Savaii 4", and we all know that Ozzy could power house them through in challenges. As the ones with the most confessionals after Ozzy, I can't help but to wonder...

Jim (3): Jim emerged as a strategic player when he recognized the weak link in the tribe as Semhar, and then noted the opposition from Ozzy. He speculated that perhaps Ozzy wanted to align with her, with all of the girls, and he led the charge to nip that in the bud. He's personable, not too bullying. I think he could be a player. Controlling the vote takes a leader, and he stepped it up. I'm sure that Cochran will owe him some kind of loyalty. He could be a force to be reckoned with. Ozzy went along with him, will Ozzy let him lead the tribe strategically?

I would like to know who talked/swayed Ozzy into voting for Semhar? I would bet that Dawn did, or was it Jim? (Alliances revealed do not succeed, but if they are not shown???)

Players that had confessionals and how they were relevant to the story...

Christine: (2) She had 2 confessionals and they were both all about the idol. Wouldn't surprise me if she found it....could be her story, maybe her only story.

Stacey: (2) She got one of the first confessionals. It said she was going to be nosey. Then she said she probably wouldn't recognize the clue if she was staring right at it, and we saw that that is just what happened. A nosey, clueless player? She could be toast soon, imo. Her confessionals could be her feature in her pre-boot ep???

Edna: (1) Her confessional was admiring Coach. She was used to tell Coach's story. Supporting player...will she align with Coach?

Elyse: (1) One of the first confessionals and it was about her native American ancestors...She was present in the episode. I doubt she is the next boot.

Mikayla: (2) She spoke about Ozzy and Coach in the beginning, and then later about her Tomboy skills. She could be a player. Any of the players could have been chosen to speak about Coach and Ozzy, I'm sure they were all asked about them, but she was chosen...

Rick: (2) Spoke about how ridiculous Coach was as a Dragon Slayer, then about himself in the intro, as a Rancher. While he spoke about ridiculous Coach, I think we saw him fitting in, contributing, and being an asset in the challenge, and getting along with Coach very well. Despite his first impression, will he and Coach align, sure looks like it. I think Rick could last a while and be a big asset. Kind of reminds me of what JT said about the city boy, Stephen, and look how those two ended up.

Sophie (2) Also had 2 confessionals, and one was about Coach, the other was suspicious of Brandon. She seems like a sharp player and I expect her to last a while.
Sitting pretty.

Under the Radar:

0 Confessionals:
Whitney, Keith, Albert

Conclusions from the Confessionals:

At Savaii: I think these players all look to be able to survive to see episode 3. One could argue that Cochran could be next. He asks, can someone be kept around on their basic charm, comedic skills and humor alone? If the answer is no, then he'll be toast. If the answer is yes, then he's going to survive. With the hype Jeff is giving him, and with the first confessional of the show, and being clearly the biggest underdog right out of the gait, I'd bet that Cochran is safe.

I think Dawn, Papa Bear, and Jim are all safe as well. In fact, I would bet that the boot will come from the Upolu tribe next week.

At Upolu: Safe: Coach, Sophie, Brandon, Rick, Albert, Edna, Mikayla.

I think that either Christine or Stacey will be the next boot. I wouldn't be surprised to see Christine find the idol, and then they force her to use it, and either her or Stacey will go. They will split the votes between the two. I think Stacey was set up to be the next boot a la her confessionals...she's nosey, and not observant. Two horrible attributes to start off the game with.

The confessional tally was a great way for me to listen to the confessionals and what the Survivors had to say. I think I was able to look at the story they are trying to tell more accurately than via my first impressions. Now watch, I'm probably WAYYYYY off base! If Savaii goes to TC, then I'll hang it up!


"RE: Post Episode 1, Survivor 23"
Posted by michel on 09-18-11 at 01:42 PM
Hi FP,
I finally had some time to read your posts and I liked them a lot.

I don't like to use Jiffy's take on the players to analyze editing. We don't know his agenda except that he is promoting the show. Last season, he was high on Natalie so some thought she would win! I'm going to stick to what we are shown and that's why I didn't contribute to the early part of the thread.

As for counting the confessionals, that reminds me too much of Sucks' Edgic analysis which is the biggest mess you can find. They count visibility and tone but, in the process, forget to consider what the player is telling us. To me, that's analyzing the container instead of the content.

I am glad that you have come around on Cochran. His episode has all the set-up for a long-term journey. This show is at his best when it makes us laugh and, for that, no one seems better than Cochran, not even Coach.

I think Dawn will be more inclined to gravitate towards Mark, Jim and Cochran. Jim should be their leader and Ozzy will be forced back to his Cook Island role: No numbers on his side so he will be reduced to being the provider. He will be kept only as long as he is needed.

"RE: Post Episode 1, Survivor 23"
Posted by Corvis on 09-19-11 at 12:54 PM
Good stuff as always, michel and Flowerpower.

I find Cochran to be the most interesting character from an editing point of view so far. The big question in my mind: Is he a journey player who will discover something about himself? Or is he a player who will go far (even win...)?

We'll need another episode at least to really get a feel for that, but my instinct is also to say he is a player. I think Cochran knows who he is, his weaknesses and his strengths. I don't think he has to really discover anything.

And I think Ozzy told us what this season may be all about. He was talking about Semhar when he said it, but I think it applies far more to Cochran (and would be perfect in my view of not-the-brightest-bulb Ozzy if he expressed wisdom about the wrong person!)

He said:

Philosophically, it's better to play with the person who has the heart to stand up and try. That ability to harness your passion and stand up to what everyone says is impossible and say I can do it, it's a huge, huge advantage in this game.

What is Cochran's passion? It's playing the game of Survivor.

"RE: Post Episode 1, Survivor 23"
Posted by michel on 09-19-11 at 06:20 PM
I love that interpretation of Ozzy's words. I will certainly keep it in mind when I look at the next episodes.



"RE: Post Episode 1, Survivor 23"
Posted by Flowerpower on 09-19-11 at 07:55 PM

Well done, Corvis. Very observant! I think you just nailed this season's theme.

"RE: Post Episode 1, Survivor 23"
Posted by Belle Book on 09-19-11 at 08:39 PM
Very interesting! You may have something there!


"RE: Post Episode 1, Survivor 23"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 09-20-11 at 07:01 PM
I've just done some reading here and loved these comments. I'm short on time and can't give them the response they deserve just now. Maybe next week!

I wrote a post in the MESS story arcs last week on Sava'i (mostly), so if you don't mind I'll just slap it in here as my first impressions written before what I got from you. Despite what I wrote, FP's post has made me see that Ozzy did do a course correct on Day 2 when it came to getting the camp together.

SAVAI'I

The Savai'i that I felt had legs (post-merge) were Ozzy, Dawn, Cochran, Papa Bear. I would add Whitney because she got so much attention pre-show, and she had a nice bit saying that she didn't get a chance to do the basketball because of Semhar, which let us know that she is ready to step up.

Ozzy -- I don't have anything much to say that you haven't covered. Except, having his tribe get in the water may not be a horrible move. First day shelter building can be a bonding experience, or it can be where things go horribly wrong with personality conflict. He took the approach of getting them to take a breath and look at the beauty of their surroundings, and that isn't necessarily bad. He did that in the Cook Islands as well.

However, I do think he forced tribe members who were not so comfortable "in the wild" to sleep on the ground when it may have been a comfort to someone like Dawn to have some structure. This shows how Ozzy is not really in tune with the others, even though he is willing to be there as a listener after the person has become distressed.

We were shown with Ozzy that he is still looking at the strong tribe model, and anyone who cannot get with the "nature" experience is at risk with him. It is not only about challenges.

Ozzy is already all about the girls, even though he gave a confessional saying he was NOT looking for another showmance. Neither was Boston Rob (being married), but he still stuck with his MO of the girl ally, and Ozzy may too. In Cook Islands, Sundra was his close friend, even though he flirted with Parvati near the end. Yul had Becky and Ozzy had Jamaican actress Sundra ... which may have attracted him towards Semhar as there is some resemblance between the two.

OTOH, Ozzy's attempt to get a beautiful but weak girl ally has already failed, so perhaps the story is that he'll try something new. Otherwise, let's see if he turns to Whitney or Elyse next time.

Dawn -- What did strike me that I'd like to add is that Dawn could be getting the Holly edit. I read that Dawn was to be cast for 21 in the spot Holly ended up in, so they were already similar in the eyes of casting. As we know, Holly was shown breaking down and recklessly failing to keep her cool, but after surviving long enough to get over her separation angst, she turned into a very fine strategist in terms of finding unlikely allies and firmly establishing herself as the Mom of the season.

Dawn's issue is also separation anxiety as well as having her body chemistry go bananas on her. She is used to living within a certain network of loved ones and it is not her strength to be alone, similar to Holly. Another thing we were shown with Dawn was that Papa Bear was committed to protecting her, even though that could cost him.

As Holly made it to F4, I think Dawn can go far with this beginning.

Cochran -- Definitely see him as a major character. A second or third boot who is out quickly doesn't get that much face time. Also Jeff fawned all over him in assessments. I think he is being presented as the next Cesternino. Rob C was not embraced by his original tribe either. He doesn't seem like a Todd, because Todd had the pulse of his tribe from the get-go. Another great student of the game who was not so physical was Rafe.

I think one has to compare him to Stephen Fishbach, who was immediately shown as out of his comfort zone in nature, but who embraced the chance to learn. (Note: as Stephen is one of my favorites of all time, must say that Stephen always appeared smarter and funnier and less insecure IMHO). While the two share ivy league brains, Stephen was not a superfan. He was recruited.

So in that sense Cochran is more of a RobC or Rafe. My question is whether Cochran will find that ally that Rafe and Stephen found, or whether he will squeak through like RobC. So far, he does not have a best friend. He is trying to play with the whole group. His closest associates, Dawn and Papa Bear, were shown as quite bonded already to each other.

Ozzy clearly saw Cochran as a city boy who might need to be cut. This stands in contrast to JT and Stephen, where JT like Ozzy was extremely comfortable in the environment, but took to the city boy. So far it does not look promising for an odd couple pairing of Cochran and Ozzy.

Papa Bear -- Sympathetic character, well aware of his underdog position, spent a good amount of time in his head, and I definitely saw him as a protagonist. Had a lot of face time and his bonds were focused on.

Jim -- I felt the Jim/Ozzy conflict was being set up very quickly, so it may come to a head quickly, pre-merge. Because pre-merge is the wrong time to make a move on Ozzy, this could lead to an early demise for Jim. Probst called Jim slimy I think, so it is likely that even though he is one of the stronger members, that he won't be trusted.

Elyse -- I did not get a feeling she has much going for her, but we were introduced to her.

Keith -- the obvious physical strength of the tribe who they need to hang onto, yet I didn't feel like we got in his head at all. We saw him from outside his head, giving Cochran a reality check at TC, showing he could be blunt. His edit so far reminds me of Grant. He's got a ticket to the merge, especially with the RI twist, yet his personality wasn't important to the plot of Ep 1.

UPOLU Short and preliminary thoughts ...

The players with legs for me were Coach, Brandon, Sophie, and Mikhayla. They deserve a better analysis than I can do right now, so here is something on the others.

Albert -- like Keith, is the clear brute force, but like Grant, not a personality at the get-go. Almost certainly has ticket to merge.

Edna -- was featured only in so far as she befriended Coach, but I got the impression there is more to come. Maybe legs here too.

Rick -- I am not so sure about Rick, as the Sears player seems to get an automatic feature, but JimmyT didn't last very long despite all the exposure he got as a character. I need to see Rick DO something to show he is adapting.

Christine is the Kristina this season, but she is way less likable in her edit. We saw Kristina in a good light at the beginning, I think, but we weren't inside Christine's head or given any insight to her feelings about returning players other than she doesn't like it. Actually she is in Francesca's role when it comes to opening her mouth in opposition from the get-go, but Francesca was likable.

Stacey -- she has physical strength, but she's different from everyone. The missed idol clue could be foreshadowing, or it could just be she provided the editors with a humorous moment. She could even go back to that spot and this time find the clue, as she was there once.

Quick note on Coach -- I liked that Coach wasn't playing the buffoon. It was a merciful relief. I like that he didn't gather his alliance together with philosophical crap. He told them this is the way to get far in this game, and that's a very good way to sell it.

"RE: Post Episode 1, Survivor 23"
Posted by michel on 09-20-11 at 09:56 PM
Nice analysis OFG.
I wanted to point out though that Rafe, while he didn't look athletic, turned out to be the one that won the most challenges in Guatemala. Also Rafe was in an alliance with the returning player right away. So, Rob C is the best comparison for Cochran but I believe he really is like no other.

"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by Dangerous on 09-20-11 at 04:02 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-23-11 AT 03:58 PM (EST)

I have been lurking for some time (since Gabon) and have always found this thread very enlightening. However this is my first time posting. I hope that you find parts of it interesting. There may be overlap with other posters – I have however tried to compile this from scratch and come up with my own objective (if there is such a thing) view of the episode. Hopefully I can continue to contribute as the season continues.

I’d like to begin my analysis by referencing some key moments in the episode. One thing that I have learnt from this thread is the importance of identifying key themes of the season. Often these themes can be identified early on, even in the first episode. With that in mind here goes:

1)In the introduction by Coach and Ozzie there is a reference to previous failures. Coach refers to “one more shot” to win the game. Ozzie says that he has “learnt from his mistakes”.

Right up front, could this be the theme to this season? Despite previous failures/shortcomings, learning from mistakes and getting another chance to overcome them to win the game?

2)Semhar: “I got put on the spot. Immediately I had to step up. It’s important when people challenge you that you step up to that, that they can trust you and know that your word is real.”

Ironic that she was voted out after stepping up but failing to deliver. She appeared to have passion as referenced by Ozzie, but gave up when it counted. Overconfidence not a good thing in this game? Could the theme be that looks and initial perceptions can be deceiving. Could our winner be somebody who initially appears to be weak and a failure but steps up when it counts?

Immediately afterwards, during the swimming scene

3)Cochran: “What I have to do is focus on the positive, visualize success and get those negative thoughts out of my head.”

4)Mikayla: “When the time comes you gotta get down and dirty. This is a game – you can’t be a little princess.”

Interesting commentary on the 2 approaches of the tribes led by Coach and Ozzie (“Bob Marley”). Action will be rewarded. Stepping up is key, despite your self-doubt!

5)Coach (after the chat with the 5-member Upolo alliance by the canoe): “Good to see the difference a day makes”

Rocky starts can be overcome!

6) Ozzie to Dawn: “As long as you don’t quit, as long as you stay strong and keep fighting, you’ll be in this game. You have what it takes to keep going. But you have something inside of you that’s unsure and you need to confront it and tell it to get the hell out.”

I think that this could very well summarize the story of the season, and (if I may be so bold as to predict) our winner’s story!

7)In Tribal Council, Semhar to Cochran: “You are so mesmerized by the game, you forget how important it is to be that person, just working and doing things”

Once again the importance of action emphasized.

8)Jeff at the end states that the tribe has taken the view that people can improve

Will our winner improve and step up after a rocky start?

I’m going to go out on a limb and say “yes”. With that in mind, who are our key candidates for a possible win?

Possible winners

1)Coach

Coach’s story starts off badly. He is referred to as a “temporary player” by Christine and disparagingly by Rick, who did not want to see him. He is referred to by Mikayla as “loony and out there”, and negatively compared against Ozzie.

His initial confessionals state that he is “not feeling a good vibe” and that “it’s going to be rocky”. After he lost the initial challenge, the tribe walked off and only Edna helped him. He references his “biggest fear “. He’s “going home first”. He’s “afraid”, on the tribe that gave him “the cold shoulder” and “face to face with fear". Not an auspicious start.

And yet, Coach steps up when it counts, leading his tribe to build a shelter, in comparison with Ozzie, who was received more warmly by his tribe, but did not lead them. Sophie refers to Coach as having “been out here twice before and knows some things” Edna refers to Coach as a “team player”, “working well with the others” and “an asset”.

Coach also has a great potential winning quote: “Coach is here to play the game this time. I’m not going to do anything sneaky or dishonourable but this is Coach 3.0 and I’m here to win.”

2)Dawn

Dawn also has a rocky start. She is upset that the shelter is not completed on the first day (and the editing leads us to agree with her). On Day 2 she is suffering from lack of sleep and has a “mini-breakdown”. She “feels old for the first time in forever” and “woke up today without being able to contain emotions”.

Confiding in Ozzie she still displays enough game awareness to comment “The person who has the breakdown goes…” It is telling that the confessionals from other players are sympathetic. Mark states that crying is “viewed as weakness”. But he “won’t turn his back on her” because “everybody has emotions”. Clearly the audience is intended to sympathize with Dawn and not give up on her either.

Ozzie’s encouragement in terms of not quitting, as referenced above, is key.

In a confessional a little further in the episode Dawn states that having started the game in a way that was pretty emotional there is a real possibility that she may be viewed as a liability for the tribe. She is hoping the tribe will be basing their decisions on “today looking forward”. Her gut tells her that Semhar is going home. (Interesting that she is correct. Despite her weakness, her head is in the game and she can be counted on to give an accurate assessment).

In line with the theme of stepping up when it counts, Ozzie refers to Dawn as having done really well in the challenge (despite her breakdown). Interesting little comment – it didn’t need to be included there. Part of building a positive edit for Dawn as someone who steps up despite failure/weakness/a rocky start. Could this be our winner?

An interesting little “Thank you” by Cochran after Tribal Council gives the credit for saving him to Dawn. Interesting. Why?

3)Cochran

Despite being the “most savvy Survivor player ever to play the game” Cochran has a rocky start. He appears to be so “mesmerized by the game that he forgets how important it is just to be that person working and doing things” as referenced by Semhar at Tribal Council, and as “hesitating, needing direction” by Mark.

Ozzie references his lack of physicality and not stepping up. A key lesson that Cochran needs to learn if he is to win.

His swimming quote (as referenced above) about focusing on the positive is important, given his “crippling anxiety and insecurity”.

However, at Tribal Council, Cochran recasts himself as an “eager student”. He will “learn things once and then do it. This is the culmination of 11 years of passion for the game”. He says that he “will do anything he needs to do around camp” and that his “eyes are opened to the perception that people have” of him and he will “take that into account”

A key theme for the winner could very well be overcoming initial bad first impressions. If Cochran can do that and harness his passion, stepping up when it counts, he could very well be our winner. Time will tell.

Jeff’s quote about taking a chance on somebody is specifically directed towards Cochran but indirectly could be applied to whoever our winner is.

4)Mikayla

Mikayla could be viewed as getting off to a rocky start through immediately being targeted by Brandon as a “Delilah” and “flaunting herself”.

However she has a positive edit and is shown getting in there, helping to build the shelter. Her quote about “getting down and dirty” as referenced above, highlights a key attribute that the winner will be expected to have. Her edit will be interesting to watch, particularly in relation to Brandon.

5)Brandon

At the moment, Brandon’s edit appears to be rather one-sided, very much linked to his desire to redeem the Hantz name from the evil exploits of his uncle Russell. If as seems likely, his relationship to Russell is revealed early on, that can be very well considered to be off to a rocky start. Already Sophie is suspicious of him, that he is hiding something. If he manages to survive the reveal and recovers within the game, his story could yet fall within the proposed theme of the season. Time will tell.

I tentatively would propose that our winner will emerge from the 5 listed above, but may revise my opinion as future episodes reveal insights. I have thoughts around each of the other players, and hope to share in a future posting. For now, my posting focuses on my thoughts around the key themes and potential winners.

"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by dabo on 09-20-11 at 04:31 PM
Welcome to the boards!
"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by Flowerpower on 09-20-11 at 05:45 PM

Well put, Dangerous! I think you are indeed on to something. Very astute observations and assessments. Survivor seems to love the underdogs and it sure loves people that go above and beyond their first impressions, a la Tocantins.

Welcome to Blows and I look forward to reading your future posts.



"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by Krautboy on 09-20-11 at 05:45 PM
Welcome Dangerous! Very insightful! Hope you will continue to contribute...


Krautboy

"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by OllieKat on 09-23-11 at 08:16 PM
Hi editing gurus I've lurked around this thread for a few years now and have learned quite a bit thanks to those who regularly post. It's changed the way I view the show for the better that's for sure. I was wondering what the rules are about asking questions of the experts here - the first two eps this season have left me with some that I think y'all could help me with. I'm spoiler-free so the stuff I'm wondering about comes solely from watching the show and, so far, one post-showing interview with Jeff in EW.
So yeah, I didn't want to just throw the questions out there in case there's a place more suitable to ask them but I am hoping it'll be ok to ask them of the regular posters here. Let me know
"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by michel on 09-24-11 at 07:27 PM
Welcome to the boards Olliekat.

As for the question go ahead and we will try to answer them.

"RE: Post Episode 2, Season 23"
Posted by Dangerous on 09-24-11 at 07:23 AM
The key themes in Episode 1 appear to be revisited in the 2nd episode.

Some key moments:

The recap voiceover focuses our attention on the important events of the last episode: ”After Ozzie defeated Coach in a head-to-head battle, Edna became Coach’s only friend. He forged a bond with Brandon and suddenly he had two friends. Still in trouble he worked his way into a conversation and walked away with an alliance of five, consisting of all four men on his tribe and Sophie”

Friendship and loyalty is a key theme

The recap continues: ”Cochran saved himself by promising to improve. The pressure is on Cochran to make good his promise before it’s too late”

Improving from a rocky start is once again re-emphasized.

Some key confessionals follow…

Ozzie: ”Tonight we decided, we’re going to let Cochran try and redeem himself…..If you don’t put in the effort….then you might be the next one to go”

The redemption theme comes through again, with the warning that stepping up is key.

Coach: ”Initially things didn’t look good for the Dragonslayer. Right off the bat I was already on the outs with my tribe. However, I feel like I’ve been given a second chance”

Coach: ”You never have too many friends…….You want to keep the tribe strong, but to me, loyalty is the most important thing. Loyalty sometimes outweighs strength in this game”

Friendship and loyalty is key. We see this explored a number of times in this episode. I would venture to predict that our winner will get to the end through a social game, depending on the loyalty of others.

This theme is reiterated in a number of scenes:

At the Immunity challenge, Coach boasts:”The team that eats pandera together sticks together and wins together”

Interestingly, they did not win the challenge. Not always a foolproof principle. There will be disappointments.

We see that a social game provides struggles of its own….not everyone can navigate its potentially treacherous waters:

Mikayla: ”The hardest part of the game is the social aspect–you gotta have a thick skin.”

Humility is also required:

Brandon””We were really overconfident. You get too cocky, you get knocked off your pedestal.”

A warning to those who think they are in control of this game.

However, in Coach’s words: ”The game is simple. Find people who are loyal to you. It’s that simple. Loyal or disloyal.”

Just in case we had missed this, Coach repeats this at Tribal Council:”Survivor is a simple game. Find people who are loyal and stick to those people.”

At Tribal Council, Jeff re-opens the first impressions theme and Coach responds: ”After losing the first challenge the first impression was pretty bad. Then I thought – let’s try to pick up the pieces and keep the tribe strong because we’ve got a long way before we get to the merge”

In my view the key themes to this season are that negative first impressions/a rocky start can be overcome through:
a) Stepping up when it counts and putting the effort in
b) Building relationships with loyal people and sticking to them (a good social game)

I tentatively propose that our winner will be someone who will have struggled early on and given a negative first impression. The winner will not be overconfident or cocky – they may struggle with insecurity initially and may start this game on the outside looking in. However, through stepping up and putting the effort in, and through a good social game and aligning with loyal people) they will overcome.

So who are our contenders for the win. I have expanded my list by two and removed one after the 2nd episode:

Contenders

Coach: The recap focuses on Coach’s isolation and rocky start, his going to work back at camp and his building friendships. This fits in perfectly with all 3 winning themes. Coach must be considered a favorite to win and will be around for the long haul in my view.

Edna: Her initial bonding with Coach is highlighted in the recap. This is telling – Edna will be a key player.
Her confessional is revealing:”I think my place in the tribe is probably at the bottom……Coach I think he’s a strong player so I wanted to solidify my relationship with him.”

This covers 2 of the 3 themes, namely coming from a place of weakness, where first impressions are not good, and focusing on relationship-building with a loyal team-mate(Coach).

Coach has an interesting confessional:”My job is to protect her.”. I believe that he will, possibly to the end.

Mikayla She is off to a rocky start with Brandon. Not in the core alliance of 5 highlighted in the recap, she’s on the outside looking in. She received focus in the recap as a ”scoring machine”. Not prone to cockiness, she showed insecurity and vulnerability when she realized that she might be a target before Tribal Council.

”I don’t see myself as a girly girl. Guys see me as a strong, solid player and I think that’s going to help me in this game”

The relationship theme is highlighted. Will Mikayla go far in a guy’s alliance?

All three themes are covered in Mikayla’s edit. She must be considered as a strong contender, particularly if we take Brandon’s quote into account: ”I will get her voted out of this game. Ain’t no chick getting in the way of me, my family and a million dollars –ever.” Given that his later pronouncement: ”I’m going to make sure Mikayla goes home tonight” is proved false, things look good for Mikayla.

Dawn I am a little worried about Dawn’s chances. Invisible this episode after a strong focus last episode on her ”mini-breakdown” she has yet (unlike Coach, Edna and Mikayla) to outline her gameplan/strategy for getting to the end. There are however 2 interesting moments that fit squarely within the ”negative first impression/rocky start” theme.

At the Immunity Challenge, Jeff criticizes her:”Dawn needs to pick up the pace. This is not a picnic.” Will Dawn step up to Jeff’s challenge?

Jim’s confessional is also good for Dawn’s chances, taking this season’s proposed theme into account: ”At this moment we have the next 3 people going home. Cochran, Dawn and Papa Bear. Each for their own idiosyncracies or weaknesses. They just don’t fit in.”

It will be interesting to see how Dawn is edited next episode. This will provide a better assessment of her chances. She needs to demonstrate improved performance and a social game in order to be a contender.

Cochran A focus of the recap, and referenced by Ozzie (see above), Cochran needs to put the effort in. We certainly see Cochran stepping up, which bodes well for his long-term future. ”I need to make them think of me less as a liability or drain on the tribe and more as a potential survivor.”

Jim’s confessional highlights his difficulty in terms of his position on the tribe. His edit certainly continues to be consistent with that of a potential winner on this season.

Mark I had overlooked him last episode. His storyline seemed more geared around the experience rather than winning the game. However, his recap focus and his being referenced as an outsider by Jim, is consistent with a winning edit. I will include Mark in my list of contenders and keep my eye on him.

Non-contenders

Brandon Brandon’s edit is not looking good. He has an unhealthy fixation/obsession with Mikayla. As referenced by Coach: ”I think he has demons that we don’t know about that he’s facing on a daily basis.” I think that Brandon’s story may involve redemption, but as Coach articulated: ”redemption for the Hantz family” and overcoming his demons. His quote about a ”chick” not getting between him and a million dollars seems prophetic. I believe that Mikayla may very well be his nemesis in this game.

Ozzie Referencing Micronesia: ”I squandered the opportunity to get really far in that game. I’m sure as hell not ever going to let that happen this time….If I can make it to the merge and use it at an opportune moment, this might be my ticket to the win”

A winning quote in another season possibly. However, Ozzie’s overconfidence, strength and positive first impression does not fit in well with the proposed winner’s edit. And as referenced by Keith, the other players will ”watch him like a hawk”. Will history repeat itself with another blindside boot? I think so.

Keith After an almost invisible first episode, Keith shows himself as a intelligent, strategic player. He displays savvy and that he will not be a dupe by recognizing that he needs to watch Ozzie, and he also displays insight in his reading of Jim’s desire to be in control. His references to the other competitors and the game show a possible lon-term future in the game. However, his edit is not consistent with my reading of this season’s key themes. While I see Keith surviving post-merge and being a player in this game, I do not see him winning.

Jim His overconfidence(”I’m a World Poker Tour champion. I’m already thinking a few moves ahead” and ”I’m the orchestrator of this plan. I’m the architect”) does not bode well for this chances in this game.

Keith pops his bubble with this slightly mocking assessment: ”Jim has made this little alliance of 5 that he wants to go to the merge. He doesn’t suspect that Ozzie and me are already talking to each other. It’s great because it lets him think that he’s in control.” Jim may leave this game sooner than he thinks.

Sophie My concern with Sophie is that her narrative seems confined to assessments of other players, namely Coach and Brandon. The only insight she gives us into herself or her gameplay is that she is a ”strong woman”. However her strength and insider status as a member of the core group of 5 alliance on Upolu are not in my view consistent with a winning edit.

Stacey Despite being on the outside in Upolu, Stacey has not had a sympathetic edit. She was made to look slightly foolish in the first episode when she missed the clue to the idol, despite it being under her nose. Her angry and frustrated protestations at Tribal Council also do her no favors. A short-term player in my view.

Albert, Elyse, Rick and Whitney are all supporting players in my opinion. I cannot see any of them winning – they certainly do not fall within the the ”negative first impressions” theme. While players have previously been under-the-radar in the first few seasons and ended up winning (see Natalie White in Samoa) the winner of this season (if my mooted theme is correct) must have received an initial edit in the first couple of episodes that highlights initial struggles/weaknesses. These 4 have, to all intents and purposes, been ignored.

Semhar and Christine On Redemption Island. Their edits do not foreshadow a miraculous, successful return.

"RE: Post Episode 2, Season 23"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 09-24-11 at 12:41 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-24-11 AT 12:41 PM (EST)

>At the Immunity challenge, Coach boasts:”The
>team that eats pandera together
>sticks together and wins together”

This was a comment that resonated with me - it tells me that the Ulolus as a group won't do well in the end game since they didn't win the challenge, and we might be seeing no more than 1 of them in the final four or five of this season.

Welcome to our boards, Dangerous! I hope you've found a new home to share your thoughts for at least the rest of the season and I look forward to seeing much more of your {dangerous} thoughts on here.

"RE: Post Episode 2, Season 23"
Posted by Dangerous on 09-25-11 at 09:02 AM
Thanks PepeLePew, FlowerPower, KrautBoy and the others for your welcome! I look forward to our interactions over the remainder of this season.
"RE: Post Episode 2, Season 23"
Posted by Belle Book on 09-24-11 at 03:44 PM
This certainly bodes well for Edna, who is my favorite so far. And it also bodes well for Mikayla, who is far from a Parvati (although Brandon wrongly sees her as like Parvati). They are among my favorites, so I'd like to see either one win. If not Edna (my favorite), then Mikayla.


"Episode 2, Editing thoughts"
Posted by michel on 09-24-11 at 07:10 PM
Thanks for getting this started Dangerous.
Here are my thoughts:

The recap started with Cochran’s story… “I’m the most Survivor savvy player ever…”
…Jim’s lie about his job… “I won over 20 poker tournaments and I own 2 marijuana dispenseries.”
…And Popa Bear’s honesty: “I’m a retired New York city detective and I am gay.”

They found out they weren’t alone. They were joined by two former Survivors: Coach who went to Upolu and Ozzy, who went to Savaii.
We heard Cochran’s positive take on the returning players but Jeff added that “not everyone was thrilled with the new arrivals, Christine even challenged them”: “They are temporary players.”

After Ozzy defeated Coach in a head-to-head challenge, Edna became Coach’s only friend. (We heard Coach talk about his predicament.)
Back in camp, Coach went to work: He forged a bond with Brandon and, suddenly, he had two friends.
Still in trouble, he worked his way in a conversation and walked away with an alliance of 5 consisting of all for men in the tribe and one woman, Sophie.
Coach: “I think I’m sitting pretty right now…”
The wildcard in his alliance was Brandon who was struggling with a dangerous secret.
Brandon: “I am Russell Hantz’s nephew…I will never tell them my last name.”

At Ozzy’s tribe, Cochran had no secrets…

In one of the closest immunity challenges on record (we heard that Mikayla was a scoring machine while Semhar fell short), Coach’s team squeeked out a win. (We saw Mikayla make the winning shot.
At tribal council, it came down to the two weakest: Semhar and Cochran.
Cochran saved himself by promising to imrove.
Now, Semhar is banished to Redemption Island and Cochran is under the pressure to make good on his promise before it’s too late.

Interesting that Cochran was said to have saved himself. Nothing was said about the role played by Jim and Mark in turning the votes. That seems to confine those two to being characters, not impact players.
In Upolu, we were mostly reminded of how quickly Coach had improved his situation. That is very important to note.
Although she wasn’t singled out by Jeff’s narrative, Mikayla was once more shown as a strong challenge player.


Like a network does with it’s programming, this episode of Survivor took some stories off the air, served us some old favorites that had jumped the shark, gave us very few new hits and filled the air with a lot of…

Reruns

For many players, this episode simply served to repeat the stories that emerged in episode one. There didn’t seem to be any real progression to their story arcs. It all felt very static.

Redemption Island

Semhar lamented about being abandoned by her tribe then she was given another opportunity to present her art.

Upolu-Night 3

Cochran: “Tribal Council was kind of a disaster for me…I will have to turn on the cool, mellow Cochran instead of the antsy, paranoid nerd kid that I have been for the last few days.”

He told the tribe he was happy that they kept him.
Whitney tapped him on the shoulder and said she was glad he was still there.

Ozzy: “Today, we decided we would keep Cochran so that he can redeem himself. I identify with his passion to play this game. He needs to understand that if you don’t put in the effort around camp…and in the challenges…then you might be the next one to go.”

Isn’t that a nice interview for Cochran; the tribe’s star turning the themes of redemption, improvement and passion into an integral part of his story and painting him as an underdog at the same time. And I noted that it was a very choppy confessional, telling us the editors worked hard on it so that it could deliver the desired message.

We then heard Keith and Ozzy, the two strong guys of the tribe, saying they will like to see the challenges get more mental because “Hopefully, this is where Cochran can shine.” They also agreed that Jim would be good in puzzles and he was a hard worker so they needed to talk to him about an alliance the next day.

Keith: “I really like Ozzy a lot. I think an alliance with Ozzy could be the best bet to stay strong, physically. Ozzy has played this game before and he is in it to win it just as much as we are so I have to watch him like a hawk.”

Although a new development for Keith who had very little presence last week, it all sounded like a rerun of the tape where Matt talked about Mariano last season. Keith even sounded like Phillip at the end there!

Upolu
Day 4

Coach was walking with Edna, telling her he had some bad vibes from some of the women of the tribe.

Coach: “Initially, things didn’t look too good for the dragon slayer…I feel like I have been given a second chance. I have a solid alliance with Rick, Sophie, Brandon and Albert. When it comes to friends, you never have too many, so there is Edna…Maybe I’m just a big fool but she seems like a genuinely nice person.”

The two talked about the immunity idol and how tight Christine and Stacey were.

Edna: “I think my place in the tribe is probably at the bottom. I am not one of the physically strongest girl in this tribe so I need to align myself with a stronger male player. Coach, I think he is a strong player and he has a history of playing well. I wanted to solidify my relationship with him.”

Coach: “Loyalty sometimes outweighs strength in this game. So, it is my job to protect her.”

Coach told Edna: “I’m the biggest fool in this game because I am always hopeful that I will find somebody out here that will play honorably.”

Coach has indeed learned from his previous mistakes where his original alliance with Brendon and the subsequent battle between to two, led to Timbira’s downfall.

Savaii

The new era of Cochran had begun

Cochran: “My mom will have mixed feeling about the new Cochran. She will be thrilled that I took the initiative and am doing work but, the first thing she said when she learned I was going to be doing Survivor was: I don’t want you handling the machete without supervision…New Cochran doesn’t follow mommy’s advice all the time… I need to make them think less of me as the liability and the drain on this tribe and more as the potential Survivor.”

Have you noticed that the first three scenes were all about Cochran and Coach? The two players that were in trouble and needed to improve have already done so. As for the last part of Cochran’s interview, his words may have been addressed to his tribe mates but it felt as if the editors were directing them to the audience, starting to lay the groundwork for us to accept this nerdy kid as the Sole Survivor.

Ozzy then told the tribe he was going to look for some fish but he went hunting for the idol and he soon found it.

Ozzy: “I think the idol could already be on this beach…Three times around, you start learning what to look for…I had one of these little guys in my possession before…I really squandered the opportunity to get really far in that game. I’m sure as hell not going to let that happen this time…If anyone senses that I have the idol, there’s a really big possibility that they are going to try to flush it out. If I can make it to the merge and use it at an opportune moment, this could be my ticket to the win.”

The set-up and the words we heard were much less triumphant than what we had last season when Rob found his idol. Ozzy talked mostly about the dangers the idol can bring to its holder. Maybe the editors wanted to cover their tracks but it really felt like Ozzy will have to use the idol sooner than he would have wished.

Upolu

Brandon: “I really like Coach, I think he is a good guy and he’s played the game twice with honor and integrity and I want to play the same way. How much of a hypocrit do I look like to have made an alliance with Coach and he doesn’t even know that I am Russell Hantz’s nephew? Lying to Coach was tearing away at everything I believe in…”

Brandon showed Coach his “Little Hantz” tatoo.

Coach: “He tells me that his uncle is my number one nemesis…My jaw literrally drops! I had a sinking feeling in my stomach…He voted my ##### off. So, it scared me.”

Brandon: “I don’t plan on stabbing Coach in the back. He’s my alliance and I am a man of my word.”

Coach: “I’ve been watching Brandon from the first day because I felt like we had a connection right off the bat and, clearly, he has nothing to gain by telling me that information. I think that he is true to his word. So, it’s going to go one of two ways: It’s either going to be Coached duped once again in this game or it’s going to be redemption for the Hantz family. I hope it’s the latter.”

Savaii

Elyse was still trying to channel her ancestors while Ozzy, Keith and Jim went fishing.

Jim: “It’s a lot of fun having the guys out there doing their thing and don’t think it happened by chance. I’m a world poker tour champion so I am already thinking a few moves ahead. You want to amass as many chips as you can… for the rest of the game. The fishing trip gave me a chance to put in place my 3 plus 2 plan. The three are the guys: Me, Keith and Ozzy as the core and the plus two are the two girls that we like which are Elyse and Whitney.”

Keith: “Jim has made this little alliance of 5 that he wants to go to the merge but he doesn’t suspect that me and Ozzy, we were already talking to each other. It’s strange because it lets him think that he is in control.”

Jim: “I like the plan that we have in place. I’m the orchestrator of this plan… the architect…I feel, at this moment, that we have the next three people that are going to be going home already set. Obviously Cochran, Dawn and Popa Bear. Each for their own idiosyncracies or weaknesses…I’m at the cool kids’ table but I’m barely at the table.”

Once more, Jim assembled his army but, somehow, it seems he should have stuck with his previous group. Hearing Keith say that Jim was being played tells us that Jim will be sent away from the cool kids’ table.


Upolu
Day 5

Mikayla: “At home, I bartend and I also play in a professional women’s football league… I’m a pretty tough chick. I’m kind of a tom-boy. You’ve seen me at camp: I’ll be right in with the boys, doing all the dirty work. The hardest part of the game is the social aspect: You got to have a thick skin, you can’t be a little princess. I don’t see myself as a girly-girl. I see me as a strong, just solid person and I think it’s going to help me in this game.”

Brandon in an interview after the camera showed him staring at Mikayla in her short shorts: “There’s a particular person that I don’t like and her name is Mikayla. I don’t feel comfortable around her and you can tell by the way she acts that she wants to be a model… I call her Parvati because she is using her seductive ways and her young girl attitude to get people in and get attention. It’s the ones that are good-looking and seductive that you want to get rid of. I’m a married man so I have to get away from that kind of stuff… I swear to you: I will get her voted out of this game. There ain’t no chick in the world getting in the way of me, my family and a million dollars, ever.”

This scene was the return of Taliban Brandon but note that, just like in the previous episode when he complained about Mikayla using her feminine ways to cause trouble, she was shown doing basic Survivor work and doing it well. I think that the story isn’t about Taliban Brandon but about Mikayla, the non-princess, who is proving to be a tough chick. Note also that this scene came in direct opposition to the previous scene in Savaii where the strong guys had gone fishing alone, deciding the fate of “the women they liked”. Those women weren’t working, they were just bathing in the ocean. Mikayla is meant to be seen as more deserving than the women of Savaii and she was shown to be in more danger than them. These are all good points for her future.

There are however, two details that indicate it could go Brandon’s way: When Mikayla said she wasn’t a princess, the camera showed her getting practically naked in order to go fishing which gives a bit of credibility to Brandon’s words and, by talking about his family and winning, Brandon reminds the audience of Russell’s “unfinished” business even if he was talking about his wife instead.

Christine: “At the last challenge, Jeff told us that there is an immunity idol clue…Whether there is a target on my back, I don’t know <Right then we saw Sophie wielding the machete to tell the audience in a funny way that indeed there was a target on Christine> I found the clue. I’m freaking out…I have this clue and I don’t know what to do: Do I tell them, do I not tell them?”

The Challenge

When Upolu learned that Savaii had eliminated Semhar, the camera went to Brandon as if to show his pleasure at seeing one good-looking woman voted out.
Coach told Jeff about the fruit they had found and that it would help them win together.
Edna was designated to sit on the bench and we heard that she was fine with the team’s decision.
Cochran was the only man doing the pole “dance”. All the other men would handle the crates.
Jeff said: “Upolu, working well together. Cochran is getting tied up in a ribbon.”
We also heard that “Dawn needs to pick up the pace. This is not a picnic.”
“Upolu has a big lead…Savaii has some catching up to do.
Upolu really taking their time…Savaii is flying through this puzzle.”

Just as Savaii was getting close, we clearly saw Cochran giving the proper instructions to solve the puzzle.

Maybe I am over-analyzing this challenge but none of the men of Savaii pushing the crates were highlighted in this huge come-back victory. Jeff never said Ozzy is leading the team, Jim is working hard or Popa Bear doing great. In such a dramatic win, the eventual Sole Survivor would have received some glory if he had been part of that effort. Instead, with subtlety, Cochran was the one shown directing the tribe, giving credence to Keith’s words about him, that they need him for the puzzles. Therefore, I would tend to say that the winner isn’t one of the 4 men of Savaii that handled the crates. No one from Upolu received blame directly for losing the challenge so it didn’t hurt anyone’s chances.

Brandon: “We were definitely over-confident in this challenge. You get too cocky, you get knocked off your pedestal. Now, we have to vote somebody out and I’m going to make sure Mikayla goes home tonight.”

It’s interesting that the last sentence was said with arrogance. Will it be the beginning of Brandon’s fall?

Upolu

Chrisine: “We lost the challenge…It started out well but the guys were just walking…”

Coach: “We need to flush the idol if the idol is out there so that’s why we are going to split the votes. We are going to put 3 votes on Christine because I haven’t forgotten what Christine said on day 1. Coach is a temporary player. That really pissed me off plus I haven’t forgiven her for running around looking for the immunity idol. Christine and Stacey are thick as thieves so we will get one or the other.”

This isn’t editing analysis but I am always amazed that the players always decide to split the votes. It tells one person that they are clearly seen as an outsider. The best strategy is to go to the person that might have the idol, give him or her a target and then you don’t have to worry about an idol bounce. Sort of like what Brandon did with telling Christine to vote for Mikayla but he wasn’t doing it as part of a plan to flush the idol.

Brandon told Coach of his doubts about Mikayla and that he wanted to be faithful to his wife. He added: “I keep think of Pavarti, Pavarti, Parvati. She screwed many a man.”

Note that, once again, Mikayla was shown catching a fish while this exchanged took place, something not very Parvati-like!

Coach: “Mikayla is our strongest female player but Brandon has a wife and family and she makes him uncomfortable. A young, good-looking girl, I understand but, to vote her off immediately? Come on. I just think that he has demons…” <Just then the camera showed us the Loco tatoo on Brandon’s neck.>

Sophie: “For some reason or other, Brandon wants to vote out Mikayla. I don’t know what his deal is, Maybe Brandon is threatened by Mikayla because she is a strong woman. If that’s the case, it worries me because I think I am quite strong as well.”

When Mikayla approached the group, Coach asked her to give them privacy.

Mikayla: “There is a mad scramble right now and all of a sudden they think that I am not trustable. Are you kidding me? I didn’t do anything.”

Christine asked Edna about the discussion and caught her in a lie.
Brandon told Christine and Stacy to vote against Mikayla.
Christine was confused.
Coach and Brandon had another discussion and Brandon said that Christine and Stacy were voting Mikayla.

Brandon: “I hate to do this to people but I just walked up to Coach and I lied to him. I don’t like Mikayla, I don’t trust her. Mikayla has every guy wrapped around her finger but me. It’s just not going to happen.”

Coach: “I hear that Stacy and Christine are going to vote Mikayla and that pisses the heck out of me because she has done nothing wrong. Brandon wants to control the situation and, if he wants an outcome, he is willing to risk X, Y and Z to get that outcome.“

Then, adressing Rick, Albert, Sophie and Mikayla, Coach said: “I hate being like this but this game is simple: You find people that are loyal to you and that is it. You are loyal or you are disloyal.”

Coach: “I hope and pray that the 6 persons I have aligned myself with have the character that I judged them for. If not, there’s going to be an #####-whipping at tribal council tonight.”

The question is whether or not Coach was counting Mikayla or Brandon as part of his 6 at this time.

Tribal Council

Brandon said he thought he had made a good first impression because he was a hard worker.
Coach quickly jumped from the bad impression he had made after losing the first challenge to the rumor he had heard before TC; that Stacy and Christine wanted to vote out Mikayla. He added: “Don’t look like you think I’m crazy because Coach at tribal Council just lays everything out on the table.”
Stacy said she hadn’t told him that.
Jeff said he was glad Coach was back.
Coach continued: “Survivor is a very simple game: You find people that are loyal and you try to stick with those people. Right now, I don’t want Mikayla going home tonight, putting a bigger target on my back but I want to see this tribe to win the next challenge.”
Mikayla said she was nervous: “You never want to hear your name come up.”
Stacy and Christine wanted to know where Coach had heard that they were after Mikayla.
Caoch remained silent, protecting his source.
Albert interjected: “For the record… I didn’t tell him… but if you are going to question the idea of loyalty look at how you are going about that. Him not saying who told him that is demonstrating loyalty. As for paranoia, I think the idea of the idol and who might have it…that is the raindrop that started the monsoon…”
Coach said he saw Christine looking for the idol.
Christine thought Coach was threatened by her and that it went back to day 1.
Jeff was surprised that Mikayla hadn’t asked Christine or Stacy if they had said it. He added: “If you go home tonight, it will be the quietest exit I have seen in a while.”
Mikayla asked and both denied it vehemently.
Then Brandon decided to come clean. He told everyone that he was the one to say vote for Mikayla.
Coach and Sophie seemed to have a revelation.
Jeff welcomed Mikayla to Survivor.
Albert said they received more information than they had bargained for but that it was great to have everything surface. “A person’s character will creep to the surface no matter how hard they try to mask that.”

During the vote, the camera focused a few times on Mikayla even if she didn’t receive a single vote. Sophie and Edna received the stray votes.

Once the votes were read, we saw Coach’s expression of satisfaction, Brandon’s defeated look and a sigh of relief from Mikayla. Nothing from Stacy, Sophie or Edna.

Jeff left them with the thought that their biggest obstacle was trust and that they needed to work on that or they would be coming back to TC.

The Story

The first episode left us with some ideas to the themes of the season. Namely, we had:
- The importance of Teamwork. In this episode we noted that the women of Upolu worked well togheter but the team still lost and one woman was voted out. The men of Savaii had a huge come-from-behind victory but received no recognition from Jeff. In fact, their victory could have been subtly attributed to Cochran: Keith told us he counted on him for puzzles and we saw him giving advice to move the crates.

- The need to focus on the positive, visualize success and get rid of the negative thoughts: The story of three players can be analyzed in light of this theme: Cochran, Coach and Brandon.
- Facing fears: The only instance that I saw this theme come into play was when Cochran let go of mom’s advice and used the machete on his own.
- Learning from mistakes: Ozzy talked about his previous mistake with the idol but it is yet to be seen if he can do anything about it.
- Stepping up. If anything Elyse failed to connect with her ancestors and couldn’t catch any fish.
- The need to be prepared: Ozzy was prepared to find the idol without a clue even if he wasn;t in immediate danger.
- A person can improve: Cochran did provide for his tribe. It was only a coconut but still…
- That need to harness your passion and stand up to what everyone says is impossible and doing it: Here again three players had connections to this theme, Coach, Cochran and Mikayla.

The Characters

Their Stories are either still in development or have been rejected:

Whitney and Elyse: They were presented as part of Jim’s alliance and they are liked by the men of the tribe so they could last a while but they don’t have a story of their own.

Keith: We saw that he was close to Ozzy like the episode #1 voting discussion had revealed. He did expose part of his plans so he could develop into an interesting player but his story hasn’t taken off yet.

Albert: He is Coach’s trusted sidekick and his lack of airtime definitely reminds us of Grant.

Stacy: Her presence served only to explain why the vote had to be split between her and Christine. There really is no reason why she shouldn’t be the next one voted out of Upolu unless Brendan becomes insufferable.

Stories that were pulled of the Air

Popa Bear, Dawn and Rick: After an interesting premiere last week, it was troubling that they were forgotten in this episode. It doesn’t look good for their future.

Stories that Jumped the Shark
Ozzy: Maybe some will say that Ozzy jumped the shark a long time ago but, in this season, this episode left me with the impression that he had nothing else to offer his fans. He found an idol but there was very little excitement or drama in that scene. It was all very factual: We had to know that Ozzy had the idol but that seemed to be all that mattered. Ozzy isn’t showing good teamwork and, as for passion, he seems to be simply going through the motions. He told us that he wanted to have a better strategy this time but the strategy talks have been left mostly to Jim with Keith of all people as his only rival.

Jim: After an interesting first episode it seems that Jim, while a good poker player, isn’t prepared for the intricacies of Survivor. (He wouldn’t be the first, n’est-ce pas, Jean Robert?) He seems that he will be outwited by Keith and it was troubling to hear him put the target on those that had formed his army last time.

Reruns: We didn’t learn much new from these contestants but they are still on the Air:

Brandon: He is stuck in a two note tune. He is Russell’s nephew and he has bad thoughts when he sees Mikayla. He really can’t get rid of those negative thoughts so his story is in opposition to what appears to be a major theme this season. He was revealed as a liar and Coach’s words about honesty and wanting to see if people were true to their characters leads me to believe that Brandon could be the next to go in Upolu. Maybe his desire to change the Hantz legacy will be limited to winning a redemption island duel or two!

Sophie: There wasn’t anything new to Sophie’s story since we had already seen that she was in Coach’s alliance and that she had doubts about Brandon. The only new development was a suggestion that she could team up with Mikayla.

Edna: She did solidify her alliance with Coach but that wasn’t really new. If she does turn out to be Coach’s Natalie then she will certainly be better at presenting her arguments to the jury but she needs to have some connections to the themes before we can talk about her chances of winning.

Potential Hit

Mikayla: There is a nice story built around Mikayla. She is connected to the preparation theme by telling us she came to Survivor ready to do the dirty work and she is displaying good teamwork. That means she could be a journey player, out to prove that she is a valuable tough person.
The passion theme works against her though: Jeff called her out for her quiet demeanor at Tribal Council, surprised by how she was taking the news that she was a target. The beginning on the next episode will show if she can get rid of those negative thoughts.
It seems that she will outlast her tormentor as we always see her working when Brandon is saying that she is only using her charms but Jeff’s assessment puts her chances of being the Sole Survivor at risk.

The Season’s Hits (The two Top Contenders)

Coach: His passion for the game is evident and he has improved a lot since last time. Not only is he more cautious with the people he approaches but we haven’t seen him telling a single campfire story or even doing Coach things; meditating and stretching by the ocean. He reminds himself of his previous failures but he is able to get over it and make interesting deals. Coach v3.0 is a lot less dramatic than the original even if his approach at tribal council was typical Coach behavior. He had a plan in mind and he did expose the truth. If trust is what Upolu needs, Coach’s tactic will be very helpful to the team.

Cochran: Ozzy connected Cochran directly to the theme of passion that the veteran had introduced in the last episode. That is a very strong indication that Cochran could be our winner. Add his ability to get rid of negative thoughts and do the work that helped the team while facing his fears and we have a very interesting story.

"RE: Episode 2, Editing thoughts"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 09-25-11 at 00:10 AM
excellent analysis, michel,
I completely agree with you character assessments above. I had not thought them all through to the degree you have, but in reading your thoughts it all jibed with my impressions.

It is striking how well Coach is doing this time. And this from one who had no desire to ever see him play again.

Ozzy I have always liked more than you. I think the women like Ozzy more than the guys do here at Blows. But as you say I don't feel that his story is very compelling. It was more exciting when Rob found the idol. Ozzy was better as an underdog, in the Cooks.

The emphasis on Cochran is unmistakable. I know that Jeff was rooting for him, and I think they wanted to feature him before it started, but I think he must do very well to get so much attention.

The only area where I might differ with you is that some people who have gone to the end have been prominent in Ep 1 and disappeared in Ep 2, because they didn't have any big part in the story early on. They were shown in Ep 1 so that we would know the winner.

While I can't think of all the examples, Bob in Gabon was one who had some visibility in Ep 1 and then really almost disappeared until he had to step up and play. I think it is worse to be neglected in Ep 1 and speak in Ep 2, unless you are Tina or Natalie White. I feel like Keith would have had a little more meat in Ep 1 if he were going to win, as they always showcase winning alpha males in Ep 1 as far as I can recall.

Rick OTOH got the Ep 1 nod, and although I doubt he wins, his disappearance in Ep 2 mostly says to me that his story will ripen later on.

I feel the same way as you about Elyse and Whitney. Supporting roles.
Sophie could come into play later.

In general I do not get a winner vibe from Upolu. Their vibe is weird. Savai'i is the golden tribe.

Belle, sorry but I don't see a winner in Edna. She reminds me of Liz in Samoa, and not because she is Asian, but just that she is a little stiff in her social game, and she is weak -- in trouble if Upolu keeps losing. (Liz was dynamic in challenges, not weak.) I can see Coach trying to bring Edna along, but I don't know how much support he would get from Albert, Rick, Sophie.

The main thing with Edna's edit, for me, is that I'm not seeing the story though her eyes at all.

"Cochran"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 09-25-11 at 02:38 AM
Even though Cochran is an important character, with stoopid RI, he is not safe. It is possible that he does get voted out of Savai'i next, and redeems himself. After all, his edit thus far is all about redemption for his rocky start. Well, the redemption may not be successful in camp, it might be at RI.

Matt got booted out at the merge because he was awful as a strategist, too honest. Also, Matt felt betrayed by his alliance. Cochran is not a kool kid now, so if he did get voted out it could just be, sorry kid, we need people who are better in challenges to get to the merge. It doesn't have to be personal, and if it's not personal, he could be welcomed back by those who liked him.

Just a thought. He really does seem to be in danger as of Ep 2. I don't see what would save him short of Jim trying some kind of rebellion against Ozzy-wan and getting bounced for it, or either of Dawn or Mark having a breakdown.

"RE: Episode 2, Editing thoughts"
Posted by michel on 09-25-11 at 01:19 PM
Thank you OFG,

Just as a precision, I'm not saying that Dawn, Mark and Rick are eliminated from contention, just putting a question mark on their edit. Mark played a big role in the strategy of episode 1 and, if he is our winner, it would have been nice to underline his implication. As is, Jeff said Cochrane saved himself.

Bob was a special case; the second episode of Gabon was presented back-to-back with the premiere.


"RE: Episode 2, Editing thoughts"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 09-25-11 at 11:13 PM
michel, I understood what you were doing with the question mark.
Really I agreed with what you said.

I only wanted to make the observation that it is usually better to have a confessional in Ep 1 and disappear in Ep 2, than to be ignored in Ep 1 and maybe get some story in Ep 2, especially if you are a strong male like Keith or Albert. For UTR female winners they have done it.

I had completely forgotten how Gabon premiered, not one of my favorite seasons. I put the most stock in an early confessional in Ep 1, which I thought that Bob had -- once they get back to camp it is not important to me. But that is my "rule" and it may not hold this season anyway.

"RE: Episode 2, Editing thoughts"
Posted by Belle Book on 09-25-11 at 09:15 PM
Unfortunately, you're probably right about Edna, but I'm still holding out hope for her. She needs to improve her social game and fast if she can overcome her weakness in challenges!

I think either Coach, Cochran or Mikayla will win. And for once, I wouldn't be upset with Coach winning!


"RE: Episode 2, Editing thoughts"
Posted by Dangerous on 09-25-11 at 08:59 AM
Very interesting analysis Michel. I have always waited for your editing analyses with bated breath. The theme of passion is an interesting one. It ties in with "stepping up" but is much more assertive and proactive. I will try to look at the next episode with that as another filter.
"RE: Episode 2, Editing thoughts"
Posted by michel on 09-25-11 at 01:27 PM
Thank you Dangerous,

I do want to point out that the passion theme was first highlighted by Corvis, When Ozzy had his confessional about Cochran, it really resonated in my head.

I think you are doing well with your analysis also. It's nice to see that the clues are leading us in the same direction: You talk about Friendship and loyalty, I use Jeff's words at the first challenge to roll that into Teamwork. You speak of recovering from a rocky start, I use Cochran's interview where he said he had to get rid of his negative thoughts and forge ahead.

"RE: Episode 2, Editing thoughts"
Posted by OllieKat on 09-25-11 at 06:58 PM
Since no one has said no to me asking question I'll take that as permission to go ahead and ask them and see if anyone has any answers
My questions to start revolve around Brandon's edit. Basically it comes down to what in the heck is the intent of the edit. I ask that because I'm really wondering if the editors had a clue just how negatively his obsession with Mikayla has been received? It doesn't take much searching around the 'net to see posts that are calling Brandon a potential rapist, TaliHantz, etc. - I personally find his actions vile.
I get that TPTB intended for him to be seen in a negative way (or at least I hope they knew it'd be negative) but do you think that they had any idea just HOW badly this guy would be seen? Is there any chance they were hoping for the reaction they've gotten as a way of retaliating against Russell for his spoiling ways? I guess another way of stating it is to ask if the editors are not aware enough of what they're doing?
The other part of his editing (and this is me trying to actually add something to the thread) that I noticed is that as far as the first two episodes go, I'm not sure the Mikayla stuff HAD to be included since she didn't actually receive any votes in the last ep. I assuming they had enough TC footage to tell a different story. Since this stuff was included I assume they're trying to tell us that B and M end up in a "one of us has to go" situation. If that happens, my vote is that B goes since they've gone out of their way to make us not like him.
Does that make any sense?

BTW, thanks for all the posts - I'm really looking forward to seeing Wed. through the lens of what I've read so far!

"RE: Episode 2, Editing thoughts"
Posted by michel on 09-25-11 at 10:02 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-25-11 AT 10:04 PM (EST)

I can only give you my interpretation of the editor's intent with Brandon's edit but it is clear that they want it to be perceived negatively. The camera focuses on Mikayla's shorts or her breasts and then goes to Brandon watching, nearly twitching, telling us exactly what he has in mind.

We will know more how to interpret it when we know which player outlasts the other but I am guessing Mikayla will win that battle. Brandon's edit gives her a wonderful underdog story, especially considering she is quite similar to Marisa, Russell's first victim.

Were you a fan of his uncle? There are still a lot of them out there so obviously SEG was hoping for something similar when they cast the nephew but he isn't the same at all. Therefore, I think the edit is also telling us that Russell was one of a kind.

The spoiling may have explained part of Russell's edit in RI but I don't think SEG really minded, certainly not enough to hold it against Brandon. There are less than 100 spoilers on this board, at most 1000 at Sucks. Add the other sites and the lurkers; the spoiling community still represents less than 0.1% of the audience. All-Star and Palau were the two most spoiled seasons before Hantz/missyae came along and they were still 2 of the most popular so SEG's stance must be: Why bother?

As for what needed to be shown, the interaction will prove necessary if Coach, Sophie and the rest of the alliance turn on Brandon and boot his sorry @ss all the way to RI next time. SEG also knows that many viewers like the pretty girls so they don't want a bounty placed on their booty! That could be why they want to hammer the idea that Brandon's obsession is dumb.



Thanks Agman!


"RE: Episode 2, Editing thoughts"
Posted by OllieKat on 09-25-11 at 10:44 PM
Thanks for your thoughts Michel!
No, I'm not a Russel fan - I didn't even watch the first season he was on. When it comes to him I go between "whatever" and "ewwww".
I had no idea that his nephew was on until I saw the episode and when he was introduced I just rolled my eyes but then quickly formed a very negative opinion of him because of the Mikayla stuff.
My problem is that I have a really hard time separating what the editing is trying to tell about him and what I'm personally feeling about him because of what they're showing me. The shot of him (from the first ep I think) peering through the palms or whatever was the one that stands out. To me as a woman it was scary. Maybe other women her can share their opinions but look on Brandon's face in the shot I mentioned made him, to me at least, the man that women are taught/conditioned/socialized to avoid at all costs.
And it's the "scary to women" shot that made me wonder if the editors really understood what their final product had the potential to convey.
For me the "creeper" story has far outweighed the "nephew" story and, again, I wonder if the editors realized that that could happened.
All of this probably has nothing to do with how he did in the game. But I think it's an interesting discussion about how an editing team has the power to really destroy someone's reputation and how they have to take care of crafting their story.

To try and add to the overall editing discussion: We were shown Coach agreeing with Brandon when B was talking about Mikayla (can't remember exactly what B said). Since the editors are painting B with a negative brush when it comes to that are we maybe supposed to feel something negative about Coach since he agreed? If so, I think maybe it actually balances Coach out a little since I think he's been shown positively so far. Maybe it's just me but I don't like a perfect winner, so if it turns out Coach won I'd like it more if he had some balance. Then again, I might be making a mountain out of a molehill

"RE: Episode 2, Editing thoughts"
Posted by michel on 09-25-11 at 11:23 PM
Survivor really doesn't care much about reputations. Just to name the three most obvious; they destroyed Jerri's character in the Outback, Silas in Africa and Ami in Vanuatu for the sake of their stories. The contract spells out that they are allowed to make the contestants look stupid.

As for Coach, he agreed when Brandon compared Mikayla to Parvati so the audience could understand his reaction. Then, Coach strongly defended Mikayla at Tribal Council and exposed Brandon's duplicity so the viewers must not see him too negatively.



Thanks Agman!


"Post ep 2 thoughts..."
Posted by Flowerpower on 09-27-11 at 07:01 PM
I was away for 4 days over the weekend so I haven't had a chance to post my thoughts, but I thought I'd try anyway, however late. I am SURE that there may be a lot that is redundant in this post, for that I apologize.

The stars:

Ozzy: (2 confessionals) I noticed that Ozzy had a good first confessional noting that they let Cochran stay and try to redeem himself....remember it's ALWAYS good when tribe members speak about other tribe members and then it's validated with the visuals.....I identify with his passion for the game but if he doesn't step up and make an effort at camp and in the challenges, he could be the next to go. Ozzy spells it out, he's narrating here, and he's dead on.

Ozzy's second confessional was really a narration and unlike some of you, I was quite impressed. He noted once again how he's played the game before and he's learned, 3 times around and you learn what to look for, then we see him finding the idol! So, again he's learned from his prior games and it's getting him farther in this game. His experience is paying off.... I look at that as quite positive, especially when combined with the second half of his confessional: I’ve had one of these little guys in my possession before and I was stupid enough not to play it. I squandered the opportunity to get really far in that game, I am sure as hell not gonna let that happen this time, but can’t let anybody know that I have the idol, If anybody senses that I have the idol there’s a very strong possiblity that they are going to try and flush it out. So, if I can make it to the merge and use it at an opportune moment, this might be my ticket to the win...

Ozzy is once again noting what happened in the past and that this time will be different.....he will play it if he needs to, he will NOT tell anyone about it, and it could be his ticket to the win. I'd say Ozzy is in good standing for now!

I would also like to point out that when the action cut to Savaii, we had our cheerful island music playing as the camera zoomed in on Ozzy as he was preparing to go out fishing with the guys....this music was associated with him as well in Micronesia. Ozzy is a real survivor and he makes for a happy tribe!

He had 2 confessionals which was a big drop from last ep, but I feel like all of the drama was at Upolu...they lost the challenge and Brandon, the drama queen, is there as well. Ozzy is safe!

Coach: With most of the action happening over at Upolu this week, Coach was a star of the episode. He had 6 confessionals. His first confessional brings us up to date...he started off in a bad way, Things didn't look too good for the dragon slayer, but now I feel like I've been given a 2nd chance....solid alliance of 5....but, with friends, you cna't ever have too many....

He notes he had a very humble beginning....and now, he's making a new friend with Edna...because you can't have too many. He notes later, loyalty sometime outweighs strength in this game. Coach is providing alot of experienced observations to the audience, almost like Boston Rob did last season...With Boston Rob, it was like we were shown, through his words and actions how to win the game of Survivor. If Coach keeps making prophetic observations and we see them come to fruition, then I'd say Coach may indeed be following Boston Rob's path...

He then moves onto the drama queen, Brandon. Noting that Brandon scares him. Brandon reveals his tats and Coach is really shocked, but in the end he's assessed the situation and it'll go one of two ways, either Coach will be duped once again or it's gonna be redemption for the Hantz Family. I hope it's the latter...

Then later Coach gets confessionals regarding the voting strategy, that they should vote 3 and 3 to flush the idol because they don't know if it will be in play. He's aiming for Christine, because he still remembers her calling him out, he hasn't forgiven her for searching for the idol when they were all working, and he's not her friend. He notes that it will be split between she and Stacey as Stacey and Christine are "thick as thieves" as we saw Edna inform him earlier....

Later Coach goes on to note why Mikayla needs to stay... Mikayla’s our strongest female player but Brandon has a wife and family and she makes him feel uncomfortable, young, good looking girl...I understand. But, to vote her off immediately...come on...Brandon, I think that he has demons that we don’t know about that he’s facing on a daily basis

Coach is narrating the events going on now at Upolu....and his assessments are validated with the visuals. Remember, always a good sign when other Survivors talk about another in a positive light, and we see the one spoken about validating it with their actions. A positive sign for Mikayla.

Sophie also validates Mikayla's worth with her confessional: For some reason or another Brandon wants to vote out Mikayla. I don’t know what his deal is. Maybe Brandon is threatened by Mikayla cause she’s a strong woman...if that’s the case then that worries me cause I think that I’m quite strong as well.

We now have Coach assessing Brandon and betting on him being a man of his word. Then we have the drama of Brandon...Brandon had 5 confessionals. First they were about how he really liked Coach and wanted to play the same way as him, with honesty and integrity, but he feels like a hypocrite because he's lying to him about his Uncle. So he discloses the info to him. Then he tells us that he' s not going to stab Coach in the back, he's in his alliance and he's a man of his word.

Later, with the Mikayla drama however we see Brandon blatantly go up to Christine and Stacey and tell them to vote for Mikayla, once again, he's going behind Coach's back...Brandon says he's a man of his word, but clearly is not, by his actions. The editing is telling us he's more like his uncle than he wants to be. He's a liar and he's conflicted.

Brandon's remaining confessionals were all about how he doesn't like MIkayla, he doesn't feel comfortable with her around, she's like Parvati, he swears to us that he'll get her voted out of this game...Ain't no chick getting in the way of me, my family, and a million dollars!

Later, when it all blew up at camp and then at TC, we see Brandon coming clean, and he didn't do what he said he would do...get her voted out of the game. Brandon is not seen succeeding. Mikayla, despite her minimal defense of herself, survived...despite Brandon. Will Mikayla outlast Brandon? I think so.

One thing I noticed in particular was when Coach had his last confessionals..I hear that Chris and Stacey are gonna vote for Mik and it pisses the heck out of me because she’s done nothing wrong, but Brandon just wants to control the situation and if he wants an outcome he’s willing to risk XY and Z to get that outcome....Then we see a storm and lightening coming as we hear thunder...
This all implies that the controlling Brandon is going to wreck havoc in regard to the strong female Mikayla, setting up a great conflict at Camp Upolu.

Coach is clearly defending Mikayla and validating her as a strong player....he's validating her own assessment of herself...Mikayla (who had 2 confessionals) had noted, At home I bartend and I also play in a professional womens football league...it’s full tackle we hit as hard as the guys so I think I’m a pretty tough chick, I am kind of a tomboy, you see me at camp I am right in there with the guys doing all the dirty work, the hardest part of the game is the social aspect, you can’t be a little princess, I don’t see myself as a girly girl I see myself as a solid person and I think that is gonna help me in this game... Then we see Mikayla go off with the guys to fish...

Another positive sign when Coach is talking about Mikayla and describing her as she sees herself...and more importantly, as we, the audience, are seeing her.

Regarding Coach at the end of the camp drama with Brandon and who to vote for, we see Coach gathered around Rick, Mikayla, Sophie, and Albert....Coach says to his tribe...it doesn’t need to be like this btw. this game is simple, you need to find people who are loyal to you and that is it...then the camera pans to Rick, Sophie, Mikayla, Albert. It’s simple...you are loyal, see the group, or you are disloyal.... as the camera pans to... Brandon.

I thought this scene spelled it all out. Rick, Mikayla, Sophie, and Albert will be loyal to Coach and to each other....Brandon will not.

The Celebrities:

Brandon: As noted above Brandon had 5 confessionals. He noted that he really liked Coach and that he wanted to play the same way, with honesty and integrity, but he's a hypocrite so he has to tell Coach. And he does. He says he's not planning on stabbing him in the back and he's a man of his word. This is all conflicting with the drama scene that played out at camp regarding the boot. This is NOT a good sign for Brandon and his longevity... !

Brandon then goes on as noted above about his dislike of Mikayla, she's like Parvati, she's tempting all of the men, meanwhile we see Mikayla working and getting "dirty" with the guys and going fishing. His assessment is not congruent with what we are shown of Mikayla. Another bad sign for Brandon.... !

Brandon's 4th confessional was in regard to the challenge...We were over confident, we got too cocky.... I can't help but to wonder if this is what will happen with Brandon, he'll get over confident and too cocky and proceed to get the boot...

His last confessional is again about Mikayla. Brandon doesn’t like lying but it’s got to be Mikayla. She’s got every guy here wrapped around her little finger but me...it’s just not gonna happen, she better be going home tonight. I took it as a very good sign that she indeed did NOT go home. I believe that Mikayla will indeed outlast Brandon.

Cochran: Cochran got the first confessional of the show. He had 2 confessionals. His first told us that TC was kind of a disaster for me, I went into flight or fight mode, i guess I chose fight which really didn’t have the outcome I wanted, even though I did stay in the game. MY tendency to turn into this anxious debate mode wasn’t helpful I am going to have to turn on the cool mellow Cochran rather than this antsy paranoid nerd kid that I’ve been the last few days... He is telling us that he needs to change....

Then we see him thanking his tribemates and then going to bed to sleep on it...

His second confessional: This is all part of the new era of Cochran, my mom’s going to have mixed feelings about the new Cochran, she’ll be thrilled that I’m doing in work but the first thing she said to me when she heard I was doing Survivor was that she didn’t want me handling the machete without supervision I appreciate her advice but new Cochran doesn’t always follow mommies advice. New Cochran cuts open a coconut when he needs to , he does it by himself. I need to make them think less of me as a liability and drain on the tribe and more as a survivor.

I’m certainly never gonna become the big survivor, I’m never going to be Ozzy, I’m never going to be Keith, I’m never gonna be Jim but I can be a new Cochran.

During this confessional we see Cochran trying to implement the "new Cochran"...it's also what Ozzy noted he needed to do...this is a positive sign for his longevity...he's changing to be more of a "survivor". Bodes well.

Mikayla: While she had only 2 confessionals, she gets a starring role this episode because the drama was wrapped around her. She told us in her first confessional that she's not a girly girl, she's not afraid to get dirty and work with the guys, and she's a tomboy, a solid player, as well as a tough football player. Then we see just that as she excels at the challenge and she's a worker bee at camp, catching fish.

Her second confessional is in reaction to being on the hot seat regarding who to boot out...it sounds alot like Cochran did last week, imo.... It’s like a mad scramble right now. And all of a sudden they think that I’m not “trustable”...are you kidding me? I didn’t even do anything, you’ve gotta be kidding me!!!...

At TC she was very present as the others were talking about her, I noted that she let Coach do her defending, and was content with that....did she trust Coach? Clearly. Now, will she repay him with loyalty? We know Coach feels like you can never have too many friends!

Supporting cast

Keith: He had 2 confessionals where last week he had none. He was shown conspiring with Ozzy in the beginning after TC, and then later with Jim. He is attached to Ozzy and he tells us why...I really do like Ozzy alot I think an alliance with Ozzy could be the best bet to stay strong physically but he’s played this game before so I have to watch him like a hawk...

So, while Keith is with him for now, he will have to watch his own back. Then later Keith goes out fishing with Ozzy and Jim. Jim and Keith talk about aligning while Ozzy is seen swimming and fishing. Keith notes at the end...Jim has made this little alliance of 5 that he wants to go to the merge, he really doesn’t suspect that me and Ozzy were already talking to each other which is great because it let’s him think that he’s in control... I'd say that Ozzy and Keith are already one up on Jim.

Jim: Jim had a great start last season. He directed the vote, and rallied to boot Semhar thus sparing Cochran. I think his edit took a severe downturn with this episode. His 2 confessionals were all about "me". We went fishing, don't think it happened by chance, I'm a world poker champion, I'm thinking a few moves ahead, I've got the 3 + 2 plan...the 2 guys and me are the core, then the girls. Wow, what an ego! We see JIm set the 3 + 2 plan in motion. Then he says to Keith, "I don't see any of the 5 of us flipping, definitely all of us to the end!"

That last sentence spells doom to me. If he says that he doesn't see any of them flipping, clearly, someone is indeed going to flip as he is taking full credit for this plan, but we've already seen Keith and Ozzy discussing it just after TC. He finishes with more egocentric talk...I'm the orchestrator of the plan, I'm the architect....Cochran, Dawn, and Papa Bear, they don't fit in. I know because I used to not fit in, but now I'm at the cool kids table, barely there, but there.... Clearly, someone will flip and Jim will be toast...or at least kicked off of the cool kids table. Jim will not win Survivor.

Interesting to note that we only saw Keith agreeing to his plan, no one else. Not Ozzy, not Elyse, not Whitney....

Christine: Had 3 confessionals...about finding the clue, about the post challenge assessment that was indeed accurate... We lost the challenge and the reward. It started out well but the guys were kind of you know, walking...I just think they could have had quicker feet. So now we have to vote somebody out, I just hope it’s not me tonight.

This was an enlightening confessional for me. She was dead right. The girls did well in the challenge, yet one of the girls was going to be voted off...This tribe may self destruct if they continue to not vote out the poor challenge performers. But, we did have Coach tell us that loyalty is better than strength in this game, so maybe it will work out ok?

Her last confessional was that she didn't know who was going, she thought that they were supposed to vote out the weak, a shot of Edna, but it could be her. And, indeed it was!

Sophie She only had one confessional and it was to validate Mikayla as a strong player....as noted above.

Edna. She had one confessional, she's knows she at the bottom of the tribe totem pole so she thinks Coach is a strong player, so she'll align with him! I say, good choice, Edna. I think this bodes well for her...

Under the radar:

Papa Bear: disappeared, no drama at Camp Savaii...identified by Jim as weak and expendable.....in trouble.
Dawn: Disappeared, no drama at Camp Savaii...identified by Jim as weak, expendable....in trouble.
Whitney: No sign of Whitney yet...Kelly Purple? Jim wants her to be one of the five, not identified as weak....safe
Elyse: Shown calling on her native American ancestors to help her catch a fish, but didn't. Jim wants her to be one of the five, not identified as weak....safe.
Albert: Seen but not heard. Seen in Coaches "loyal" five.....safe.
Stacey: Identified as with Chrisitine, expendable....in trouble.

In sum, I agree with most that point to themes of loyalty, friendship, and especially with what Corvis pointed out....

That ability to harness your passion and stand up to what everyone says is impossible and say I can do it.

Taking this theme to heart, who are our underdogs at the start or rather who have started out with strong odds against them for whatever reason: Cochran, Coach, Ozzy, Dawn, Mikayla, Brandon, Edna. Will one of these folks be our winner?

Coach and Ozzy are underdogs because they have both played the game 2 other times before. So far I feel like Ozzy and Coach are noting things that they have learned from their past and applying in this game with success. I think that bodes well for them both. Coach is clearly making alliances and underlining loyalty and friendship, and noting that loyalty may be more important than strength in this game. This bodes very well for him, imo.

Ozzy on the other hand is not seen as strategic in this game, yet he's found another idol using resources that he learned from other games. To me, Ozzy always represents the underdog. I would not be surprised at all to see Ozzy align with underdogs on his tribe.

Cochran is a blatant underdog and I think there is no need for debate. Will "new Cochran" be the survivor he dreams about in episode 2? I think he just could!

Dawn is an underdog, she had a meltdown in episode one, and now is on the endangered list.

Mikayla is an underdog as it seems she's not in with "the cool kids" either. She is not in the stargazer alliance, but I would bet she will replace Brandon at some point. She definitely is exemplifying passion, and she's going to have to stand up to Brandon. She is in a great position to fulfill that theme.

Edna is an underdog because she is the weakest, as identified by Christine, and herself, when she noted she's at the bottom. She's aligning with Coach another underdog. I think she will continue to be aligned with Coach through the game, but I don't see her as winner.

Finally, Brandon is an underdog because he's related to RussHell and his tribe will soon know about it. I think Brandon will not last to end game. He will be a liar and disloyal and his alliance will cut him...at some point.

This leaves my list of end game players that could fulfill the theme as having passion and an ability to stand up to what everyone says is impossible and quite possibly win it as: Coach, Ozzy, Cochran, Mikayla, or Dawn. We'll see.



"RE: Post ep 2 thoughts..."
Posted by michel on 09-27-11 at 09:08 PM
Nice read, FP. You validate my impressions. There are a few things I would point out though:

About Ozzy, you write: "he's learned from his prior games and it's getting him farther in this game."

I think you are getting a little ahead of yourself. Look at his confessional:

"I can’t let anybody know that I have the idol, If anybody senses that I have the idol there’s a very strong possiblity that they are going to try and flush it out."

Already that was telling us that trouble would be brewing and the previews confirm it. I'm not sure Ozzy will make it as far as he did in Micronesia.

For Albert, you write:
"Seen but not heard."

I thought he had a nice presence at TC where his words were wise. It's just that he looks so much like Grant v2.0

And this sentence from Brandon:
"Ain't no chick getting in the way of me, my family, and a million dollars!?

I had noted it but it's only now that I made the connection: Two "chicks" have already gotten in the way of his family and a million dollars: Natalie White and Sandra!!! Brandon is doomed, doomed, doomed...


Thanks Agman!

"RE: Post ep 2 thoughts..."
Posted by Flowerpower on 09-28-11 at 03:46 PM

Great observations, as always, michel. I particularly liked what you said about Brandon and the chicks that have gotten in his way! Ha!

Regarding Ozzy, it just seemed like he had noted that he'd played the game 2 times before and he kind of knew what to look for, and those instincts served him well....led him right to the idol. I think last time he divulged his idol to Amanda or his alliance. This time, he's keeping it closer to the vest...but, you may be right about him and his finish...time will tell!

Yes, Albert indeed does seem like Grant. He was seen with Mikayla as well as they were getting ready to fish...one thing I have noted about him is that when they talk about RI, they always seem to have a shot of him. Look for it! I wouldn't be surprised if he goes to RI, yet is returned, at some point. Could he be the "Matt" of this season?


"RE: Post ep 2 thoughts..."
Posted by Brownroach on 09-28-11 at 04:35 PM
Please, don't let there be a "Matt" this season.
"RE: Post ep 2 thoughts..."
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 09-28-11 at 06:25 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-28-11 AT 06:40 PM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 09-28-11 AT 06:28 PM (EST)

As you guys might know by now, my feeling about Survivor early season themes is that they don't always work out in terms of defining the end of the season. Even though there is a ton of footage for the editors to pull from, the outcome of the show is not as completely manageable as a novel or a 100% scripted show.

I also believe in a shifting theme. That is, what may be a theme early in the 39 days may shift to something else, and yet another theme. I actually prefer this. Part of my excitement with Survivor was not knowing how people would change as they go through the ordeal and the game. I don't really like the idea that characters are defined at the beginning and that will be the dominant note of their character. I would agree that we see this more and more, but I don't love that kind of editing.

My take on Mikayla is that she will be gone early if Upolu loses enough challenges. Stacey should be gone first if not for Brandon, but it's possible that Mikayla will. I think that what we are being shown is that Upolu has the eye on the prize of getting that dominant alliance to the merge. As does Savai'i. The outside three on each tribe are going to have a very tough row to get to merge.

The tough facts are, the alliance doesn't consist of the nicest people, or the underdogs, on either tribe. It consists of a mix of strong challenge performance and a certain early "click" that forms "cliquies."

If Brandon were weak in challenges, his demons might get him sent home, but he's not.

If Mikayla had made friends with Coach's group right away, her athleticism would have given her staying power, but she did not.

The edit showed her being reproved by Jeff for possibly going out without a whimper much less a fight.

Mikayla stands in contrast to Cochran, who was shown asserting himself and saying, look, I see how it's going -- I didn't start off right, and now I'm in danger, but there has to be a way to fix this.

So I would say that Mikayla will be a casualty of the early alliance formation, but Cochran is somehow going to make it. Stacey the Mom is not going to successfully integrate into the group, but Dawn the mom will somehow succeed.

Brandon will be the character that America loves to hate on and every week they tune in to see his alliance get it together and send him packing -- like Jerri in Season 2. This type of character is excellent for ratings. America is more likely to watch hoping to see the villain crash and burn than to watch the good people carry on.

On Upolu, the chemistry of sexual attraction is all haywire. Brandon finds Mikayla too attractive and she is a Delilah.

On Savai'i, in contrast, we have guys who like the hot girls. I think that Ozzy has now gravitated towards Elyse, and that Keith likes Whitney. Ozzy and Keith are tight. That leaves Jim on the edge of the "cool kids" as he acknowledged, without a strong one on one bond. Jim likes the hot women, but they don't look at him. Jim will most likely be the one who goes so that an underdog can make merge, IF that happens.

We are shown Jim being overly confident, and also we see Keith explaining that Jim doesn't really know jack about what's going on. Keith did not clarify how he feels about the two girls. We are being left in doubt whether the two girls are dispensable to the bro's the way Jim conceptualizes the alliance. At the moment, Elyse and Whitney are a question mark, as we don't see the game from their POV very much.

Savai'i has some potential for turning into a two "couple" tribal alliance core such as what we had last season with Rob + Natalie and Grant + Ashley. Grant and Ashley were never a real couple, as Grant was married and Ashley had a boyfriend at home. Both of Ozzy's prior seasons he fell into this pattern. Yul + Becky and Ozzy + Sundra -- even though there was no romantic relationship, was somewhat of a paired model due to Yul and Becky being so tight.

Then in Micronesia, we had Ozzy + Amanda and James + Parvati set to dominate the game, but Parvati knew that she couldn't go to the end that way. Whitney and Elyse, still unknown, look for now to be followers like Natalie, Ashley, Becky, Sundra.

Upolu, in contrast, is shaping up to be a bro's alliance. Coach, Rick, Albert, Brandon are at the core, with Sophie as the intellectual boyish girl. Mikayla's efforts to play tomboy didn't work, because her body isn't tomboy. Edna is seen by Coach as maybe someone who will do what he says, so she is an asset.

The contrast between tribes sets Upolu up as the tribe that is focused on business despite the personality flaws of one alliance member. Savai'i is the pleasure tribe. We continue to see them congregating in the beautiful shallow water. We see Upolu having its convo's in the woods.

This season, I don't get the sense that either tribe is doomed pre-merge. It feels more like both tribes have members that could be a force post-merge. I don't have the sense there will be a swap this season that neutralizes these early alliances, but of course I don't know that. I'm not so sure that a swap would mix well with the RI twist.

Back to Mikayla and Brandon, a rift like that poisons the tribe, so it needs to be dealt with, but I think that Mikayla will go. She may be sort of like Kelly B -- a valuable tribe member in many ways yet targeted by the despicable Na Onka and offed pre-merge.

"RE: Post ep 2 thoughts..."
Posted by Flowerpower on 09-28-11 at 07:35 PM
OFG: You raise some great points. As Veruca always used to confirm for all of us, that all of us can view the show in different ways, we see different things, we catch different perspectives. You make great comments. Yes, I have to agree, just because these themes at the beginning of the show are being offered up, does not mean that they will be the "themes" of the entire season. And, these themes at the beginning are all themes that have been done before.

Survivor Tocantins was all about first impressions, and how deceiving they can be. I felt the whole crux of the Cook Islands season was indeed the underdog. And, it could have started out that way as they had four diverse tribes. Nothing could have pleased the producers more when Aitu got down to four and proceeded to go on a serious challenge run. Ozzy pulled that tribe through all of the challenges, against all odds.

Underdogs, loyalty, wrong first impressions, yes, they are common threads that really are woven through all of the seasons, imo. So, I can agree that themes may indeed shift and change as the story evolves. But, due to the title of the show, redemption most likely will be one of the biggest themes. It sure was last season. I suppose I should have prefaced my thoughts in that I applied the themes that had been identified by the collective group so far. I do have to say that I thought Corvis made an astute observation when he called attention to what Ozzy had noted about finding the passion to play when everyone else says it's impossible, and you rise to go on....or something like that. A very "meaty" quote and applicable. Especially when we have such a character as Cochran. It's also applying who needs "redemption"....

You could be so right in your thoughts that Savaii may turn out to be a "couples" tribe, and Upolu could sway toward a "bro alliance". But, I note things that the editing puts in front of us. Like when Coach was talking to the group regarding, it's simple...either you are loyal, and then there is a shot of Rick, Albert, Sophie, and Mikayla, and he continues on to note, or you are not, and then there is a zoom in on Brandon. It's stuff like that that leads me to "believe" that Brandon won't be "loyal" to Coach, while Mikayla will. But, I suppose you can argue that Mikayla could indeed remain loyal and still be booted off before Brandon. Mikayla, for me, just fits best with what we've been served up so far. And, I must admit, that this includes for me what Jiffy has noted about them all as well, but I do try to take that with a grain of salt. Brandon could indeed redeem the Hantz family, as Coach so eloquently noted last episode. Mikayla could get some redemption after starting out on the wrong side of the numbers...

I do agree that I get the feeling that neither tribe will be decimated either. I also get the feeling because of the editing this week and all of Jim's comments about himself being the mastermind, made me feel like his edit took a turn for the worse. I also feel like Ozzy may align with some of the "weak" ones on Savaii. When Keith and Jim were talking, Ozzy was off swimming. Ozzy was not "meant" to be seen conspiring with Keith and Jim on the "3+2 plan". He was seen confiding in Keith, however.

I agree Brandon and Mikayla are certainly pitted against each other. On the surface one could predict that Mikayla will lose that battle because she is "not" in the stargazer alliance. But, the promo for ep 2 even gives us a tease when Brandon faces off with her at camp and tells her she doesn't even have an alliance....he's calling her out in a way that makes me think it will be ironic when she ends up with "his" alliance. Just my thoughts. It will be fun to see how this conflict is resolved once and for all.

No question, Brandon is becoming a villain for me.

I love reading your thoughts, OFG. I hope you keep offering them up!



"RE: Post ep 2 thoughts..."
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 09-29-11 at 09:18 AM
You're too kind, FloPo.
Actually I agree that Corvis' note of the Ozzy comment was great, and I think the theme of passion for the game could well continue, at least with a key player or two. Whether the winner will have it, I don't know.

As for Redemption, oh yes they will make that fit if they have to pound the proverbial square peg into the round hole. On one level, anyone who has been voted out needs Redemption, plus we have Coach, Ozzy, Brandon bringing their required sound bytes on redemption.

Let's face it, Jiffy put himself behind the RI twist, and he is extremely invested in having it work out, so in some sense, redemption will be vital to the season.

I am writing post Ep 3 now, and I still don't like Mikayla's chances. I noticed that Stacey stayed quiet.

In the Ep 3 press photos, there was this photo

and in the previews there is talk of Upolu splintering with Mikayla, Sophie, Albert getting independent from Coach, Brandon, Rick, Edna ... so it seems this story of tension is going to continue to be the key issue with Upolu.

With this new angle of a couple people perhaps siding with Mikayla, I don't know what to think, as it is just a promo. If the alliance really fell apart, Mikayla would have a chance ...

but as far as pure editing goes, I think her edit is poor because we are shown Brandon's struggle through confessional, but we see Mikayla being confronted. I think the character getting the major confessional action is more likely to last.

"RE: Post ep 2 thoughts..."
Posted by michel on 09-29-11 at 05:36 PM
"my feeling about Survivor early season themes is that they don't always work out in terms of defining the end of the season."

I have to complete opposite view and, just to go back to the last three seasons, we had the winner's theme spelled out in episode 1 each time.

S22 RI: It came from Rob's own voting confessionals: I love playing against newbies; they give away so much.
All season long, Rob kept his game hidden while everyone else talked too much

S21: The people that take charge make mistakes and are voted out.
Time and again the person making moves got the axe leaving the innocent Fabio as winner.

S20 HvV: It came from Rob who said: Our women are much stronger than theirs and Jeff who asked if anyone felt they were on the wrong tribe.
Sandra was on the Villains' tribe but many thought that she should be with the Heores and she wound up trying to play with the Heroes.

I could go like that all the way back to Palau. Certainly, the themes evolve and certain things can shift but episode 1 is truly the first chapter of the winner's story. Even Samoa's premiere told us that a dumbass girl had to win. It's just that Ashley appeared to have the better edit up to episode #4.



Thanks Agman!

"RE: Post ep 2 thoughts..."
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 09-29-11 at 07:10 PM
Those are good points. I agree that Ep 1 has been consistent in giving us the winner's story.

I don't regard all the things you list as "themes." To me those are more key remarks (except for 21). And I applaud you for culling them out.

By themes, I think more of the ideas that they try to beat into the game, like the first impressions thing. To me a major theme is something that is consistently repeated, whereas the statements you quote are what I would call Easter eggs.

But my understanding of a theme may be quite different from someone else's. That is one thing we don't have here with our terminology; we don't have definitions of how we use these terms.

"RE: Post ep 2 thoughts..."
Posted by michel on 09-29-11 at 07:29 PM
Semantics are important and here's why I prefer Theme to Easter Egg: An easter egg would be a one time thing that we are shown. A theme is repeated.

For example, we saw Ralph unable to resist the envy to one-up Russell, telling the other side he had the idol. Matt and Andrea showed their closeness and the threat they posed. Kristine and Francesca showed their hand, Francesca challenging Rob immediately. Upon his return, Matt confessed to Rob his plan to backstab him. Rob didn't even say a word when he heard that Russell was gone.

"Post EP3 Thoughts"
Posted by Krautboy on 09-30-11 at 00:31 AM
After EP3, what stuck in my mind was that the groundwork was being laid for an Ozzy boot and his eventual return to the game.

We were shown Keith' betrayal of Ozzy's trust, when he told Whitney about the idol, followed by Jim betraying his alliance to make a deal with Cochran.

Jim was already shown feeling like an outsider at the "cool kids table", setting up next weeks strategic move.

It seems that Jim, Cochran, Keith and Whitney are about to be in a position to blindside Ozzy.

The editing has also made a point of reminding us that Ozzy was voted out previously when he had an idol, perhaps foreshadowing the same fate again?

The curious thing is that Ozzy appears to have a good long term edit as well, with a strong redemption theme. This tells me that if Ozzy is voted out, he will probably use the same advice he gave to Dawn, to get back into the game...probably at the merge.

Christine's edit showed her making reference to "doing a Matt" in order to get back into the game...I think the editors selected those comments to set the stage for an Ozzy comeback.



Krautboy

"RE: Post EP3 Thoughts"
Posted by kiki_k on 09-30-11 at 01:48 AM
And this time Ozzy's HI in his pocket would still be good if/when he comes back into the game. I remember Jeff saying something to that effect when this whole b.s. RI facade started last season. So no chance to "Matt" him if he doesn't win that first IC when he comes back in.

"RE: Post EP3 Thoughts"
Posted by dabo on 09-30-11 at 01:59 AM
So far only weak challenge people have been sent to RI, and it stands to reason that a strong competitor sent to RI has a good chance of running the duels to get back into the game. As far as editing goes, Ozzy's Savaii alliance is very shaky, Keith and Jim are just waiting for their chance to stab Caesar in the back. Or front. No one likes being second, or fifth.

One thing I thought revealing in the last Tribal, Papa Bear brought up that they are all type A's. That's a valid observation, the game has always been about throwing type A's together in an extreme situation, and a lot of situational drama turns on the fact that type A's aren't normally in a situation where they have to deal with all others being type A's.

"Type "A"'s"
Posted by Flowerpower on 09-30-11 at 07:49 AM
Papa Bear brought up that they are all type A's.

This is an interesting statement. I don't know if I agree that Ozzy is a type A at all. I think the others are looking to him to lead as he is a survivor, and is experienced in the setting. It's not like he is commanding the team, he's quite deferential. I think he's trying to lead perhaps because it's expected of him. But, I don't think he wants to or is doing it very well. He is not a natural leader, he is a natural survivor though.

Jim: Definitely, he's type A, and quite egocentric
Keith: He doesn't strike me as a type A either
Whitney: Could be a type A
Elyse: Could be a type A, just haven't seen enough of the girls to draw to any conclusions
Dawn: Type A, she told us she's used to being in charge
Cochran: I would call him a type A as well, he's driven, and full of anxiety...doesn't need anymore anxiety in his life. He could be a little passive/aggressive though...I don't really know him that well either. Hard to tell when he was in "fight or flight" mode.

I agree with this combination that they are all vying to be top dog...or perhaps rather they are all looking to hedge their own way at the expense of the others. This could be a very colorful season if all of these independents make it to the end game. Perhaps Coach's words regarding how it's all about loyalty will become prophetic. Maybe the ones that are loyal will indeed outlast.

"RE: Type "A"'s"
Posted by dabo on 09-30-11 at 11:11 AM
Cochran, passive-aggressive, hm. He's also a student of Survivor. Sandra is the two-time winner who had the most successful passive-aggressive game both times she played, she wasn't above leading/sabotaging a friend into a brick wall if it got her further in the game. But she also found an enemy/villain to be a foil both times she played. Hm. This could have possibilities, though no one at Savaii has yet emerged as a villain, Jim is potentially the friend who could be manipulated into a faceplant.

As a sociological study, Survivor has always been about throwing type A's together and seeing what heirarchy develops, and in general it can be concluded that younger defer to elder, inexperienced defer to experienced, and weaknesses (real or perceived or simply the result of the extreme situation) are punished or exploited.

"RE: Type "A"'s"
Posted by michel on 09-30-11 at 05:16 PM
"younger defer to elder...

The mallrats don't agree.

"RE: Type "A"'s"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 09-30-11 at 07:19 PM
I imagine that dabo said "in general" because he knows there have been exceptions, notable exceptions too. That doesn't make his observation wrong.
"RE: Type "A"'s"
Posted by michel on 09-30-11 at 08:07 PM
When the show itself puts the cut-off between young and old at 35 years of age, you know it isn't a game where younger defer to elder. The young ones have "generally" voted out the elders.
"RE: Type "A"'s"
Posted by Naked on 10-01-11 at 00:56 AM
Actually, this isn't really the truth. People who are the very eldest have been targeted, but generally the winners of the show have been mid 30's and above with a few notable exceptions. I would be shocked to find out the median age of survivors who won to be less than 35.

VOTE NAKED 2004

"RE: Type "A"'s"
Posted by dabo on 10-01-11 at 01:18 AM
The sociological aspect of Survivor isn't about how they vote, because essentially all players vote in their own self interest. Jane was voted out in Nicaragua, for some reason all the players were convinced she would win if she got to Final, she had a lot of respect. (Actually, the only way she would have definitely won would be getting to Final with Holly and Dan.) In terms of camp life older players often fall into Mom and Pop positions when they aren't in leadership positions.
"RE: Type "A"'s"
Posted by michel on 10-01-11 at 02:15 AM
Again, what is old for you? The Moms and Pops that could be called old include Rodger and Mama Kim and, while they were of comfort to some, they weren't involved in much of the strategy. No one defered to them to play the game.

Most Moms and Pops were really not elders: Tom, Deena, Sandra and Cirie come to mind. These people saw younger players defer to them but I completely disagree with calling them elders. Actually, when Tom returned in HvV and was a little bit over the hill, very few listened to him anymore and JT made it a point to eliminate him.



Thanks Agman!

"RE: Type "A"'s"
Posted by michel on 10-01-11 at 01:57 AM
LAST EDITED ON 10-01-11 AT 02:26 AM (EST)

But that's my point exactly. In which other warped world are elders considered to be about 35??????

When I think of elders, I think of BB and Willard. No one ever defered to them. Their asses got booted the first chance they got.

We had a season of Young vs Old and even the Old tribe was dominated by its youngest members; Marty and Jill. When the tribes swaped and later merged, the young ones decided on their own, Holly and Jane used more as tools than as wise guides.

ETA: Winners in their 20s: Ethan, Jenna, Sandra, Amber, Aras, Todd, Parvati, JT, Natalie, Fabio.

Winners in their 30s: Hatch, Tina, Vee, Brian, Chris, Tom, Danni, Yul, Earl, Sandra, Rob.

Winners over 40: Bob.

To me, the median looks much more like it's 30.

"RE: Type "A"'s"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 10-01-11 at 03:25 AM
More semantic differences ...
dabo said that younger defers to elder, experience to inexperience, in general. He didn't say "elders." "Elder" in relation to "younger" may be just enough years to feel the difference in maturity and experience.

When I was 18 (I was married and had a baby), my husband was 24, and for a short while we shared a house with his 24 year old best friend and his lady, who was an astounding 28 years of age.

To me, she was very much the elder, in fact I remember saying that I had never hung out with such an old person before and was surprised that such an old lady could be "cool." Yeah, I really thought that and I may even have said it to her.

I had been on the planet 18 years and she 28, that meant she was more than 50% older than I was. She had a decade of adult life under her belt, and I had about 18 months.

I also had friends who said they would probably kill themselves when they got to be 30, because life as they knew it would be over.

I imagine that many of the players who are under 25 do look to the players who are somewhat older (but not ancient, because they can't even comprehend those people as having a life) ) as guides with valuable experience.

"RE: Type "A"'s"
Posted by michel on 10-01-11 at 09:54 AM
All discussions need proper definition. I will simply quote Iltarion in this week's love list over in Fanatics. His remark fits perfectly here:


"Maybe Survivor should just go the American Idol route and not have anyone over 30 on, then we wouldn't have this seasonal rite of the young bonding together against the old."

http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID4/5095.shtml

That says it all.



Thanks Agman!


"RE: Type "A"'s"
Posted by dabo on 10-01-11 at 12:17 PM
LAST EDITED ON 10-01-11 AT 12:28 PM (EST)

In a Boy Scout troop the elder boys are 16 and 17, the younger scouts look up to them, it's the same phenomenon. I used the term elder because it isn't simply a matter of being older, it refers to the phenomenon. Dawn and Papa Bear certainly received some respect as elders. Papa Bear 20 years younger and in the same physical condition would almost certainly have been in danger of being first voted out same as Cochran, and there probably would have been more comments about his size, but because he is an elder allowance was made for it and it was only mentioned in respect to his challenge contributions. A younger Dawn having that emotional breakdown might have received no sympathy from anyone because what did she expect when she signed on for Survivor, but she is a Mom outside her personal natural environment and gets a break.

Arguably, even the mallrats could have been responding to a premise that younger cannot beat elder in the game, a different response to the same phenomenon which in their case was a valid premise since they collectively couldn't outwit a dung beetle.

"RE: Type "A"'s"
Posted by michel on 10-01-11 at 05:24 PM
Same phenomenon? When boy scouts backstab each other in order to win a million dollars, the comparison will have some value.

In survivor, the young have gone after the older players time after time. And you can respect someone without letting them make your decisions for you.



Thanks Agman!

I make a joke and everyone jumps on me! This is fun!

"RE: Type "A"'s"
Posted by dabo on 10-03-11 at 00:28 AM
LAST EDITED ON 10-03-11 AT 00:31 AM (EST)

I do not know why you seem determined to ridicule and disregard this, but I think this is interesting and has a place here so I will make one more stab at explaining. The same sociological phenomena, cultural memes if you prefer, occur in Survivor tribes as occur in all other groups in the actual real world. They influence how the players think about and treat one another, how they interact as groups, are part of the edit, and influence public opinion.

Do they manifest differently, in some ways yes and in some ways no. But they do manifest, they are the same core sociological phenomena. And it would also seem that the outliers come of the worse for it in public opinion, as with the mallrats.

In survivor, the young have gone after the older players time after time.

True, and so what, that's not what I'm talking about.

And you can respect someone without letting them make your decisions for you.

True, and that is what I'm talking about. The game does that because it is a game. But the respect is still there.

"RE: Type "A"'s"
Posted by michel on 10-03-11 at 07:37 AM

>In survivor, the young have gone
>after the older players time
>after time.
>
>True, and so what, that's not
>what I'm talking about.
>
>And you can respect someone without
>letting them make your decisions
>for you.
>
>True, and that is what I'm
>talking about. The game
>does that because it is
>a game. But the
>respect is still there.

Why do I continue? Simple logic: You didn't say the younger respect the elder, you said the young defer to the elder. While deference implies respect, respect does not imply deference. If you agree that it is true that the young go after the elder then they cannot be defering to them. They may, at times, respect the elders but they will make their own decisions and boot the old players, most often very early in the game.

The successful older players have to work hard to be accepted and, most of the time, their success depends on being totally UTR.


Thanks Agman!


"RE: Type "A"'s"
Posted by dabo on 10-03-11 at 07:45 PM
So I got out the thesaurus and looked up the word defer and, yep, just as I thought, there was the word respect. Deferential treatment, you can give it without it having to be asked for.
"RE: Type "A"'s"
Posted by michel on 10-03-11 at 08:02 PM
That's what I said, deference implies respect but you can respect someone without defering to them. Defering to someone means letting them decide for you.

Said another way: You can respectfully disagree but you can't deferentially disagree.

Younger players usually respect the elders like Dawn but they very rarely defer to them. The Aitu4 and Koror defered to Yul and Tom respectivelly but they weren't what I'd considered elders. And even if you do, those two represent exceptions, not the norm. A wise player like Cirie knew that she would only get her way if she could make Aras and Danielle think it was their idea first.

"RE: Type "A"'s"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 10-03-11 at 09:03 PM
LAST EDITED ON 10-03-11 AT 10:04 PM (EST)

22 posts on Type A's, just over 20% of the total posts for the whole season to date!

"RE: Type "A"'s"
Posted by dabo on 09-30-11 at 11:13 PM
In general, yes. Phillip was an exception because he made himself a source of ridicule with his antics. In Savaii, though, Papa Bear seemed to be liked well enough, he just didn't fit into an Ozzy style alliance. Cochran was more a source of ridicule, lacking in social skills, but he's trying to work his way out of that. And Dawn made an impressive comeback from her early emotional breakdown.

"RE: Type "A"'s"
Posted by michel on 10-01-11 at 02:00 AM
But the point is: Did they defer to Popa Bear? Of course not. And neither are they defering to Dawn.
"RE: Type "A"'s"
Posted by kiki_k on 09-30-11 at 10:36 PM
In all fairness, the mallrats are idiots.
"EP3 Editing Thoughts"
Posted by michel on 10-01-11 at 05:09 PM
In the recap, Jeff said: “In a battle between two tribes, each with a legendary former player, Upolu, led by Coach, narrowly won the immunity challenge.
So Ozzy’s tribe, Savaii, blindsided their weakest player, Semhar, and sent her to Redemption Island.
Meanwhile, Ozzy strenghtened his position in the tribe by finding the Hidden Immunity idol…
(Ozzy: “This could be my ticket to the win.”)
…and joining an alliance of 5.
(Jim spelling it out: Me, Keith, Ozzy, Elyse and Whitney)

At Upolu, Coach built his own alliance of 5 and Brandon felt so close to Coach that he revealed his secret.
(Coach is shown telling us that Brandon’s uncle is his number one nemesis)
After Upolu lost the second immunity challenge, Coach wanted to get Christine out…
…But Brandon innately feared Mikayla…So he took a page from his uncle’s playbook to spread false rumors to get her out.
At Tribal Council, Brandon shocked everyone by confessing his sins.
In the end, Coach got what he wanted.
We then heard Jeff saying: “The biggest obstacle for this tribe is trust.”
With that, the camera went directly to Brandon, telling us who is the cause of the problem.

I noted that Ozzy is simply presented as a number in Savaii’s alliance while Coach was said to have built his own. That, again, tells me that Coach will outlast Ozzy. Note that Jim got the credit for the alliance, Keith’s point of view meant to be forgotten.

In the battle between Brandon and Mikayla, it was troubling for her story that we didn’t hear Coach coming to her defense. In this version of the story, she supposedly stayed only because Brandon came clean, sparing her. The adjective “innately” was also a bad sign for Mikayla when “irrationnally” would have been the better choice. We can take this as indications that Mikayla’s story is heading towards making her a Victim instead of someone on a journey.

Redemption Island

Christine: “I don’t know what happened. I think my tribe wasn’t ready for someone that wanted to play the game.”
Telling Semhar that Coach was a pain in the ass who saw himself as King Farouk, Christine continued: “Coach had it in for me from the beginning and he would do anything in his power to get me out and he succeeded.”

This is a warning sign for Coach’s story: Christine is also starting to take on the characteristics of a Victim and with her win at the duel, the audience may get to like her more and more over the weeks. Fortunately, Coach had a good reason for targeting her but editing doesn’t always care for reason. If, as viewers, we continue to connect with Christine, meaning if she continues to get these well presented interviews, we will start to resent Coach.

Upolu
Night 5

Mikayla: “Tribal council was nuts tonight. I didn’t expect to hear Brandon say “let’s vote for Mikayla. I kept thinking what did I do? I couldn’t pinpoint a thing. Brandon may seem like a country boy but he really stirs stuff up. I am not happy about it. Coach took the heat off of me and I hope it stays off.”

Unfortunately for her, we saw Coach hugging Brandon.

Brandon: “I was 150% sure that Mikayla was going home. Unfortunately, the plan back-fired. It was a blatant lie and I regret doing that. I came into this game not wanting to be like my uncle Russell who is a big villain on Survivor. I wanted to be a Hero, someone that you could look up to. I’m completely guilty of what I did and I reap what I sow.”

Note that the editors are using the same pattern with Brandon as they did with Russell: We see his despicable actions and then we repeatedly hear his explanations. It turned a potentially detestable player into a fan favorite once, are they trying to do it again?

Upolu – Tree mail

Hearing about the duel, Coach asked to go.

Coach: “I will go to the duel with Stacy. The best part of this day would be if Christine lost...”

This isn’t good for Coach’s character. It makes him look petty and vengeful. It would have been better if he had just shown up at the arena like Ozzy.

Nothing was said between spectators and duelers except that Christine voiced her disdain for Coach, adding: “I was just articulating what everybody else was saying.”
There was a funny moment when we heard Jeff’s sigh and saw the glance between Coach and Ozzy as Semhar recited a poem.
During the challenge, Jeff said: “Nothing would be sweeter than to get back in this game” the camera went from Christine to Coach. When Christine beat Semhar, those words sounded like a warning sign for Coach.

Christine: “Coach was at the duel only to see if I would lose. He’s just a dope. I’m hoping to pull a Matt here and get back in. I know I’ll win”

The only interesting nugget during the challenge happened when Semhar said “burn’ while throwing her red buff in the fire making me wonder if the red tribe will indeed go down in flames.

Upolu
Day 7

Brandon: “This morning, He was not pleased with me, I wasn’t pleased with me and I know my family wouldn’t be pleased with me. I lied blatantly. I knew they would believe me and I lied to them. They wanted Christine to go home but I wanted Mikayla to go home. There are certain things that I cannot allow to go on: I won’t lie anymore, I won’t play games anymore with these people.”

With everyone on the beach, Brandon removed his shirt, revealing his secret. When he said his full name, Stacy almost had a seizure!

Mikayla: “He comes out and says he’s Russell’s nephew. I’m like Wo! I knew there was something behind this kid. He says he doesn’t want to lie but he keeps doing it. I think it’s an easy out for him, like he does something bad, he says: “Guys, it’s not me…” Maybe he is covering his track before he makes ‘em but I don’t trust him. I think he’s just a sneak and I don’t know what’s his problem with me.”

Brandon then took a walk with Coach, apologizing for not preparing him for what he had done.

Coach: “Brandon told the tribe that he was Russell Hantz’s nephew. A mistake in my eyes but he needed to get it off his chest. That shows Brandon’s age a little bit. He lets personal things get to him and weigh him down. Brandon is a valuable asset in my alliance. I still trust Brandon, absolutely but maybe not in with both feet now.”

The scene ended with Brandon’s words captioned: “I had a relapse of what my uncle used to do and it sucked.”

Savaii

Mark had an interview while the camera showed him observing the tribe from the hammock: “We have a good camp life. We have food, we have shelter, we get along but the reality is that, in every tribe, there is a pecking order. I think the minority is me Cochran and Dawn. Me and Dawn, because of age, Cochran because he is the nerdy kid nobody hung out with in school, sorry John. I didn’t click with anyone here so every challenge is important for me. I am not safe at all.”

Ozzy was interviewed while we saw him showing the big fish he had caught: “The five in my alliance right now, Keith, Whitney, Elyse and Jim but Keith and I have a brother type thing going. There has to be a point where I have to trust somebody to tell him that I have the idol and who better than Keith. I just think he will be a strong ally and, as far as I know, he’s really trustworthy.”

Ozzy told Keith he had the idol.
Although he said it was cool, Keith immediately turned to Whitney to tell her that Ozzy had found the idol.
The censors blurred the mouth of the country singer as she let out an expletive telling us she wasn’t thrilled by the news.

Keith: “I’m mad that Ozzy has the idol because it gives him all the power or most of the power right now. It gives him a better hold on the alliance. So, I told Whitney because I want her to trust me just in case, down the line if something were to happen where I need the numbers because I thought Ozzy might be making a move.”

A full third of the episode had passed and this was the first scene in Savaii. It served to set up this week’s boot and to prepare the stage for a possible move against Ozzy. Both appear short term story so it should tell us that Upolu is the important tribe except the main story there revolves around Hantz as we would witness once more. I think it is noteworthy that the two scenes paralleled each other: Brandon and Ozzy revealing secrets that, just the episode before, they had vowed to keep to themselves. Both were edited for the audience to see them as snafus.

Upolu

Mikayla asked Brandon if he had a minute so they went for a walk in the jungle.
Mikayla: “I just want to know what you have against me.”
Brandon said he wanted her to go home because he didn’t like her, that she had an attitude and that people didn’t trust her.

Brandon : “Mikayla was coming at me like she was a bulldog like she was going to attack me… but, as a Christian, I am supposed to be meak, I’m supposed to turn the other cheek.”

The two went back to the beach where Brandon gathered everyone. In an accusatory tone, he said: “It sounds to me like you don’t have much of an alliance.”
He wanted no more of this, requesting to be left out of the drama.
Sophie and Albert exchanged a questioning glance.

Sophie: “Oh! My God! I was in so much shock. We didn’t say anything after that. He is such a loose canon. There is a lot of tension between Brandon and Mikayla. I think that, in Biblical terms, he would call her the whore of Babylone. I think Brandon, right now, is really torn between following whatever crazy religious beliefs that he has and yet, at the same time, inherentaly, in his blood lines, he is a devious jerk.”

We then saw Mikayla crying alone at the beach but the camera quickly went to Brandon who had another confessional: “I was told by my dad to not lose my temper… Being a Christian, I shouldn’t have lost my temper. I should have been able to control myself but I didn’t; I failed…This is a constant battle with me: Good/Evil, Good/Evil and I want to do good.”

Showing us Brandon’s accusations in front of the whole tribe and especially letting us hear that he wants to be left out of the drama when he is the source of that drama should tell us that he will be voted out before Mikayla, For example, his venom is similar to the one Tyson spewed on Sierra. The problem here is that we have a Hantz and the editors proved once that gross behavior can be accepted by the audience, even relished by it, if there is enough repetition, explanation and justification. The tribe could sacrifice Mikayla in order to keep the alliance intact, making her a classic Victim.

We then saw Coach talking to Sophie, telling her that Brandon had spooked both his own alliance and Mikayla.

Coach: “This situation greatly concerns me. It is the epitome of snafu. I am worried that Brandon’s outburst causes uneasiness in the tribe, uneasiness in the alliance and we are all hoping and praying that Brandon has no further such outburts. It’s a different kind of aggression that Russell had but it’s an aggression nonetheless.”

The scene between Coach and Sophie ended with Coach saying: :I hate to say it but I do see a little Russell in him.”
Sophie added: “I just hope it doesn’t bite us in the butt.”

After Semhar’s “Burn”, we now have a clue that things could go bad for the Upolu tribe. The editing is telling us that things will go bad for the two main alliances. Note that Albert, Edna and Rick were shown during Coach’s interview so these three could be part of a tribal realignement with Sophie and Mikayla.


The Challenge

Out of the numerous flaws in the concept of Redemption island, one that is rarely noted is the fact that there is no more surprise when the two teams meet for the first challenge of the episode. From Corinne and Charlie’s realization that Marcus had been voted out to Eliza’s “Who?” after hearing that Mary was gone, the moment after Jeff calls “come on in guys” often delivered great scenes, ranging from the dramatic to the comical. It even served as clues once in a while.

Jeff: - “If you are not managing your rope, it’s going to cost you.”
- “Ozzy cannot run, he doesn’t have any rope.”
- Ozzy lost his floater, opening the door for Upolu.”
- “Coach and Edna working with Mikayla and Sophie trying to figure this puzzle out.”

We saw numerous times Ozzy being slowed down by his tribe. It was telling us that they don’t work well together. It seemed that Dawn was better for Savaii until she fell in the water just before she reached the platform. For Upolu, we had another clue that there could be a shift in alliances with Mikayla once more shown giving directions to Coach to figure the puzzle.

Jim: “Papa Bear is the weakest link, It’s not even that he is a zero: He slows us down. He should have been the first one out.”


Savaii
Day 8

Ozzy: “We lost the challenge and it does suck for moral. We are going to tribal council… and that means cutting people that aren’t good at challenges. Dawn did a great job today. She kicked ass. So, it’s basically between Papa Bear and Cochran.”

Papa Bear and John were having a talk, realizing they had been put on the Barbie doll and Ken team.
Note that when we heard that it would be easier to be in the group, the camera showed Jim, Keith, Elyse and Dawn!
Mark said: “It’s obvious: If I go tonight, you are going tomorrow. If you go tonight, I am going tomorrow.”

Keith, Whitney, Ozzy, Elyse and Jim decided on Papa Bear. Keith added that they should tell him it will be Cochran but, since he wasn’t on screen at the time, the captions made it look like it was Jim’s idea.

Cochran: “Ozzy approached me and said “we are going to tell Papa Bear that it’s you but it’s really going to be Papa Bear.” The fact that my name keeps coming up is very upsetting. I don’t want to be sent to Redemption Island. I know it can be viewed as a chance to get back in the game but I view it as a chance for extended failure and more depression. I might do some last minute scrambling but the problem is that I already have this reputation as the nervous, neurotic scrambler. If I resurrect that before another tribal council, I think it’s going to hurt me so…I just don’t want to go home.”

Jim and Ozzy told Papa Bear their lie but he didn’t buy it. He figured his best chance was to find the immunity idol. His sprint in the jungle surprised Elyse (and gave us a nice chuckle!)

Elyse: “I was on my way to the shelter and I see Papa Bear in a dead sprint from the water to the woods and Papa Bear doesn’t sprint…ever! Jim and I walked into the woods and peeked around and he’s just digging through the dirt like a gopher... Wouldn’t it be wild if he found that clue or the idol?”

Unable to find it, Mark put a rock in his underwear to make them think he had the idol.

Cochran: “Jim and Elyse saw Papa Bear digging for something near a tree. About five minutes later, Papa Bear comes waltzing in with a big smile on his face and a extra large bulge in his underpants. He clearly wants us to think he has the idol.”

Jim: “Papa Bear came up to me and said he had the idol. All of a sudden, we have a variable: Let’s say he does have the idol. Why not plan against that? The plan has to change and Cochran could be going home tonight.”

Cochran: “I hope my tribe sees through this charade but my fear is that, even if they don’t believe him, it wouldn’t be any sweat off their back to shift their vote… and I’d be screwed.”

Ozzy: “It’s quite funny seeing everybody scrambling around thinking Papa Bear might have the idol because I already have it. I can’t let anyone else know that I have the idol. I’m just hoping that nothing goes wrong.”

With the audience knowing that Whitney has learned his secret, the last part of Ozzy’s interview is a clear sign that something will go wrong for him.

Tribal Council

Cochran started off by saying he was trying to be more of an asset to the tribe.
Mark said that John’s biggest problem was that, physically, he would be a threat to himself.
Asked about the leader of the tribe, Cochran talked about multiple layers of leadership (the camera seized the hint and showed us Keith). John added that Ozzy was the most obvious leader.
Papa Bear countered: “Everybody wants to be the leader and this is a game for A type personallities…I like to be a leader but, for some reason, in this team I am not a leader. For some reason, the five have taken control and I don’t have anything in common with any of them.”
Dawn explained: “I think any group is based on siminlarites…I think Papa Bear, myself and Cochran might not have anything in common but I see it shifting throughout the day so I don’t know that I see it as locked.”
Papa Bear warned: “Dawn… we are not in the five, we are not in their group and we know that so it’s ok to say it because it is real.”
Jim disagreed: “I think that Dawn is right on and that Papa Bear knows that he is on the chopping block so a lot of his comments are meant to stir things up.”
Papa Bear, turning to Jim: “I don’t need to worry about it because I am in the three… You need to worry about it because you are going to be in the five.”
Jim told us about his concern for the idol, noting that playing the idol this early only gives you three more days but that is what the game is about.
Jeff turned to Ozzy, noting he had been voted out holding on to an idol (Actually Jeff, Ozzy hadn’t even brought it to TC that time!!). Jeff pointed out that what Jim said about 3 more days wasn’t entirely true.
Ozzy, seemingly feeling uncomfortable, agreed that it could change the game.
Cochran said he could possibly find the idol but that “you have to weigh the pros and cons of searching frantically for the idol. It makes you look very suspicious and it shows that you don’t trust anybody else in your tribe. It’s all about fostering a culture of trust in the tribe and searching for an individual immunity idol is not necessarily the best way to avoid the chopping block.”

After the vote, Jeff asked them: “Are you voting out the right people?”

The Story

Overall, the main theme of this episode was delivered by Dawn at TC. The first two episodes had established strong alliances of 5 but this episode prepared us to see some shifts in both of those alliances because I don’t know that I see it as locked either.

Upolu dominated the screen even if they didn’t go to Tribal council. That is usually a good indication that the winner is on the blue beach. It will be interesting to see if Savaii gets a lot of airtime when Upolu goes to TC.

That story on Upolu is about Brandon but I don’t believe it is Brandon’s story, if that makes sense. We saw three different approaches in dealing with this loose canon:
- Mikayla confronted him.
- Coach appeased him
- Sophie stayed back and analyzed.

In Savaii, the story is mostly about Cochran and how he will deal with the fractures that we have seen in the alliance.


The Characters


Papa Bear: His words about turning on Savaii gives him some connection to a story down the line but Christine has the stronger connection, being in direct conflict with Coach. It is unclear which one will win the next duel and it is even less clear if either will eventually return. At least, we are getting a better presentation than last season when it was obvious that Matt was returning.

The Background Players:

Elyse: All she has received so far is the chance to add a bit of flavor to the episodes. Her intervention during Papa Bear’s search for the idol was a funny moment but that seems to be the extent of Elyse’s contribution. She hasn’t given us an indication that she has doubts about the alliance so, if it is to break, she should be part of the collateral damage.

Whitney: Being aware of Ozzy’s secret and being on Keith’s side gives more substance to Whitney’s game than Elyse but the country singer doesn’t get any confessionals. Either some huge development will come soon for her or we aren’t meant to root for Whitney. The latter is much more likely.

Rick, Edna, Albert and Stacy: All have lost their speaking roles. They could play integral parts in the alliance shift that we are expecting to see in Upolu but it does not appear that either will emerge as our eventual winner.

The Loose cannons

Keith: Despite receiving a very limited character, Keith is shown playing an interesting game. The camera showed him as the behind-the-scene leader of Savaii when Cochran talked about multiple layers of leadership. He knows where Ozzy stands and he controls the numbers over Jim so he appears to have all the cards in his hands. Since there is no substance to his character, he must not succeed with all that power.

Jim : His presentation reminds me a lot of Marty in Nicaragua. A smart businessman that is used to wheeling and dealing, he is poised to make big moves in this game but, as with his predecessor, arrogance is the dominating trait we see in him. Granted, arrogance didn’t prevent Hantz from reaching the end but that was an exception and all of Hantz’s arrogant confessionals were preceeded by some tactical moves. Jim, like Marty, as yet to deliver anything of interest.

Brandon : The very definition of a loose cannon the guy creates drama and then asks to be left out of it. A troubled teenager needs counseling, not an appearance on Survivor. If his character reminds Coach and Sophie of Russell, his edit reminds me of his uncle. Explanations, repeated often enough, become truths. The story is set-up for Upolu to shift the center of gravity in the power make-up of the tribe but we are dealing with the Hantz legacy so it could be that he gets his way and makes Mikayla his first victim.

Players on a Journey or Victims?

Dawn: Twice now, we have heard Ozzy, the challenge king, compliment Dawn on her own challenge skills. Add the numerous times we have heard that the group of five is solid and we are prepared to see Dawn survive a long time in the game. Her initial confessional about being a strong mom and her subsequent breakdown set the stage for a wonderful Journey of Perseverance. However, she could still fall Victim and have her Journey presented from Redemption Island instead. She has mostly disappeared from our screen so it doesn’t appear that this will be her story in the end.

Mikayla : Will she prove that she is a strong person or will she fall to Brandon’s attacks? The story of the first half of the season seems to revolve around that question. The picture will be much clearer when we know how this chapter will end but our job is to try to see through the fog of war. The themes of underdog and teamwork still plead in her favor so I think she will outlast Brandon.

Diminishing Returns

Ozzy : I was never impressed with Ozzy’s presentation this season and this episode really showed us why he will fail. Just like previously, his allies are scheming behind his back and he is completely unaware of the danger. Being a popular player, it will be interesting to see who gets blamed or credited for eliminating him.

Coach : After an impressive start, Coach’s edit regressed in this episode. We heard many negative comments from Christine, we saw his pettiness when he wanted to witness Chritine’s exit and we saw him hugging and appeasing Brandon when the nephew imitated his uncle’s vile behavior. The editors had turned around the poor impression Coach had left with the audience so the intent couldn’t be to have us see him as a Villain once more so where is his story heading? The question will be answered once we know if he is part of the shifting alliances or it the shift is done to his expense. I see him as the narrator of the tribe, his role leading him well into the merge but not as our winner.

The Players of Interest:

Sophie : The player I see taking over as a contender in place of Coach is Sophie. In fact, if Cochran didn’t have such a good story, I’d be inclined to declare her the winner. Where Rick, Albert and Edna have disappeared to leave room for the conflict in Upolu, Sophie has always commented on it and told us how it affected her directly. The story of Brandon versus Mikayla appears to be Sophie’s story; Sophie’s choice between an alliance formed on day 1 and the other strong woman of the tribe. I will watch closely to see what role she plays in that battle. It will tell us if she is indeed the winner.

Cochran : His intervention at Tribal Council about the Hidden Immunity Idol touched on many themes that we had unearthed up to now. He talked about Trust and Teamwork. With Papa Bear’s warning that John will be next, he has a great underdog story and, if Jeff said he was smart enough to find an idol, he is also smart enough to turn things around.



Thanks Agman!

"RE: EP3 Editing Thoughts"
Posted by Flowerpower on 10-02-11 at 04:36 PM
Awesome observations as always, michel! You are really so good at all of the this, and your opinions do carry alot of weight with me.

Here are a few observations that I have. Jeff has made a big deal about Ozzy finding the HII, he quoted, "it's huge, huge, huge." In the intro of this episode he noted, "Ozzy strenghtened his position in the tribe by finding the Hidden Immunity idol…
(Ozzy: “This could be my ticket to the win.”) Clearly, Ozzy finding the idol is going to be huge and save him.

We also know that Jim is the one that came up with the 3+2 plan outside of Ozzy and Keith. Last week he emphatically stated to Keith that he, Keith and Ozzy were the "core" of the 5...very obvious that while he is laying out his plan for Keith, that Ozzy is so far out of earshot catching fish...to me, it was if Ozzy was never part of it. Jim continued on particularly noting that "none of us would flip, none of the 5, I don't see any of us flipping". Now for the previews for next episode we see JIm making a deal with Cochran and being the first to flip of the 5....IMMEDIATELY. For me, this exemplifies how disloyal he is to everyone. He's playing his own game and in a social game I think that he'll be the one that bites it. Will Ozzy play his idol and burn Jim with it?

I have felt that Ozzy and Dawn could be aligned especially after the first episode. Perhaps Dawn will get wind of the plan to knock out Ozzy and she'll prove her loyalty to Ozzy and tell him. Someone has to show some loyalty on this tribe and I really think it will be her. Her comment that you noted, I see it shifting throughout the day so I don’t know that I see it as locked.”, could be quite telling indeed!!! Showing loyalty to Ozzy which leads to him saving himself, imo, would bode quite well for Dawn. Ozzy's got some nice strong coat tails to ride, and she could be quite a leader as well. They'd be a great team.

Then with Papa Bear's comment to Jim, I don’t need to worry about it because I am in the three… You need to worry about it because you are going to be in the five....wow, this is really what makes me think it will indeed be Jim that's burned by this betrayal, and not Ozzy.

I know others have seemed to think that this sets the stage for a Ozzy boot and shot at RI, but I am leaning the other way....Jim.

Clearly, the Savaii's are in trouble, because they are not working together. It has been this way from the start, they are a leaderless tribe with a lot of people out for themselves. It will be interesting to see if Ozzy can pull them through. If Ozzy were to be booted to RI, I don't see how this tribe could win challenges...someone really does need to emerge as some kind of leader soon.

Over at Upolu, I agree with your assessments. Things are starting to shift. Brandon makes me sick to watch. I can't get over how much drama this one creates. With his disclosure I do think he could be in trouble. But, otoh, I can't help but think in the end the disclosure will indeed solidify him as the perfect goat-boy. UGH.

As for Mikayla, I don't think she or Edna will be going anywhere before Stacey. After Stacey, it could get interesting. That's when the big shift will occur, if there is to be one. Sophie gets consistant confessionals and she seems to echo what the audience feels. One of the biggest questions that editing set up last week was would Mikayla take Brandon's place in the alliance? Especially when we heard Coach talking to Mikayla, Sophie, Albert, and Rick, that the secret to this game was that you are either loyal, and it showed all of them, and he continued on, "or you are not"...and it showed Brandon.

After this episode, I don't know if the editing was foreshadowing or misdirecting. She had one confessional that noted she didn't trust him. I would feel better if other folks were talking about how great she is or something. So far we do have Sophie talking about how much of a jerk Brandon is. Clearly Mikayla and Brandon are on a collision course. Last week I was feeling good about Mikayla's chances of making end game, but with this week I am more conflicted.

Edna and Mikayla are the 2 outsiders if Stacey is booted this week. I would think there could be some kind of a shift the next time they go to TC. I am not confident that Mikayla will last anymore, but I sure hope that you are right! That's encouraging!

I agree that Coach being fixated on Christine leaving, and then she persevere's is not a good thing for Coach.

Right now I don't know what to think of Cochran either. I thought his comments were good though, noting that scrambling was not the way to instill trust from the tribe. Now we see him concocting a plan to undermine Ozzy. As a fan favorite that doesn't paint him too well in my eyes. But, he's got to show us some kind of game and I suppose a strategic and clever plan that's conceived and executed successfully will go a long way in turning him into a "player". But, as you noted, it will be interesting if Ozzy is booted, who will the editing give the credit to?

I can't help but to wonder if Cochran is our journey player...

it's really amazing just how many players are really non-entity's in the game so far. Sure, their story's may not be front and center yet, but clearly they won't be end game players either...not enough character development. I think of the following in this catagory: Elyse, Whitney, Keith, Edna, Stacey, Albert, and now Rick.


"RE: EP3 Editing Thoughts"
Posted by KObrien_fan on 10-02-11 at 05:12 PM
it's really amazing just how many players are really non-entity's in the game so far. Sure, their story's may not be front and center yet, but clearly they won't be end game players either...not enough character development. I think of the following in this catagory: Elyse, Whitney, Keith, Edna, Stacey, Albert, and now Rick.

Define end game? Natalie in Samoa had 0 confessionals through 4 episodes of the season and when shown her alliance with Russell it was from his viewpoint and she was part of his "dumbass blonds alliance". There wasn't anything flattering or winneresque in her early season editing.

For the record I think she was edited that way because of all of the turmoil and the game that Russel was playing. They needed to edit her win as not so much one of deserving as one of Russell's lack of social skills in the final TC.

Interesting to note that when they edited Russell early in the game they flashed shots of him and then shots of the Survivor logo, only you could see just the Outwit, Outplay words, never the "Outlast".

Brett was another one who was virtually unheard from early on but ended in 4th place. Denise in China was invisible and finished 4th. Grant was fairly invisible at the beginning of last season.

I consider end game to be final 5, but that's just my own definition. I wouldn't count out everybody who is invisible in this season so far as not having a chance, just based on all of the early drama and it overshadows the need to develop the others stories quite yet.

I wouldn't


I'm not sure who came first hosting games, you or Tribe, but you are both nefarious! - CTGirl

"RE: EP3 Editing Thoughts"
Posted by michel on 10-02-11 at 06:45 PM
I wouldn't want to answer for FP but since I don't see much chance for Elyse, Edna, Stacey, Albert and Rick I'd like to say that I mean for them winning.

There usually is one player that reaches the end game without development but it's impossible to analyze their story when there is none. Butch, Lydia, Denise and Brett were ignored because they didn't win and the editors didn't want us to cheer for them.

And Natalie had zero confessionals through 3 episodes because the 4th episode was where she delivered her key confessional and Russell told her (and us) that she had it made. Samoa was the Russell show because they were pimping him for HvV. I sure hope they aren't doing the same with Brandon.



Thanks Agman!


"RE: EP3 Editing Thoughts"
Posted by Flowerpower on 10-03-11 at 06:43 AM
Well, KO, you bring up a valid point. You really scare me with the Natalie and RussHell editing. God forbid that there is so much drama with Brandon that a similiar scenario enfolds. If it were to happen that way, I'd say Sophie would be sitting in the best spot....ride the drama out and let them eat each other.

RussHell was like a bulldozer though. He came in strong and hard with a plan and he executed. Natalie may have been perceptive to recognize his game play and to hop on board. Brandon is so darn conflicted, and he seems more like a journey player...he has had a winning quote though...."no chick is going to stand in the way of me, my family and the million dollars".

Who knows maybe a theme for this season could also be no matter how hard you try to change, you are who you are. Example, no matter how hard Brandon tries to change his ways, he's still a Hantz.

No matter how Ozzy tries to change and play a different game, he can't, he's still a challenge whore with no clue how to play strategically.

Regardless, perhaps I worded my statement wrong. At this point, I just don't see Elyse, Whitney, Albert, Edna and Stacey, and even Keith as having much substance. Characters that perhaps won't get much development. I don't see them winning, but perhaps they could squeek in there till the end. I see them more as pawns in the game then players. This edition of Survivor may not reflect their stories.


"RE: EP3 Editing Thoughts"
Posted by KObrien_fan on 10-03-11 at 07:19 AM
Thanks for the clarification. There are other distractions to the beginning of this season besides Brandon. In their own way, Coach and Ozzy are also distractions, at least from the editing and that leaves us with less time in the current season to flesh out the invisibles.

I think that 1 of the invisible group will make it into the final 5, and if you look at who was highlighted in Episode 1 first set of confessionals it was Elyse and Rick. Sophie also got a couple of confessionals and left a good impression. So it could be any 1 of the 3.

FWIW- I feel very strongly that Cochran will be the winner this season, I don't think we will have an invisible winner. In addition to his confessionals he has been highlighted by the musical edit including the telltale light bell dinging that usually indicated the person is saying something of value or that the person has significance.


I'm not sure who came first hosting games, you or Tribe, but you are both nefarious! - CTGirl

"RE: EP3 Editing Thoughts"
Posted by Flowerpower on 10-03-11 at 07:03 PM
Agreed that Ozzy and Coach are clearly distractions from other characters, as the stars of the show. But, don't forget, last season one of our stars was also winner. I still count Ozzy and Coach as possibles.

Very astute observations regarding Cochran and the musical edit with the light bell dinging! Wow!

"RE: EP3 Editing Thoughts"
Posted by KObrien_fan on 10-03-11 at 07:43 PM
I'm not forgetting last season. Rob had a different edit from day 1 than either Ozzy or Coach is getting. Although if I had to pick one who has a more similar edit it would be Coach. I think he will surpass Ozzy this season even with all the distractions.


I'm not sure who came first hosting games, you or Tribe, but you are both nefarious! - CTGirl

"RE: EP3 Editing Thoughts"
Posted by michel on 10-03-11 at 07:48 PM
The best part of Coach's edit, as far as his chances of winning are concerned, is that we haven't seen him doing "Coach things".


http://funny115.com/v2/15.htm

Of course, he was funnier when he did.

"RE: EP3 Editing Thoughts"
Posted by dabo on 10-03-11 at 07:51 PM
He may be saving it for RI, where for once something watchable might actually happen, negligible impact though it would have on the game.
"RE: EP3 Editing Thoughts"
Posted by michel on 10-02-11 at 06:34 PM
Thank you for the compliment FP.

Interesting point of view on Jim versus Ozzy. It would be quite something if Dawn warned Ozzy of the danger but where would that leave Cochran? His edit up to now doesn't fit with having his big move foiled. He is the smart nerdy kid, not the dumb schemer. I'd be more inclined to think that Cochran is setting up Jim, getting him to talk about blindsiding Ozzy only to turn around and reveal the poker player's scheme to Ozzy.

However, even that doesn't quite fit the edit because watch Tribal Council once more, especially when Jeff talks to Ozzy about being voted out with an idol in pocket. I noted that Ozzy looked uncomfortable but it was more than that: Ozzy was turning away from Jeff and his hand went to his ear. Then the camera went to Jim because Ozzy's movement, in poker terms, was a tell. Jim knows Ozzy was lying, bluffing, hiding something. That could be key and if the editors are that subtle about Jim then we will have to adjust the way we are looking at his chances.


Thanks Agman!

"RE: EP3 Editing Thoughts"
Posted by dabo on 10-02-11 at 07:58 PM
Jim does have a better tell, actually. They went to Tribal without a plan to split the vote in case Cochran and Papa Bear teamed up and planned to use the HII to knock out one of the five (even more dangerous if Dawn had made it the three v the five). Jim throwing a vote on Cochran as insurance tells us a lot as well, since he had the choice of Dawn.
"RE: EP3 Editing Thoughts"
Posted by michel on 10-02-11 at 09:15 PM
Here, I'm more interested in what the editors are telling us than what the players can figure out. I have no idea if Jim saw Ozzy's tell or if he figured that the absence of a plan to split the vote meant that Ozzy had the idol. What I did see is a scene cut in such a way to make us think that the poker player read Ozzy's tell.

Technically, Savaii had a better plan than splitting the vote since they had told Papa Bear to vote for Cochran. You don't need to split the votes if the one that could have the idol is voting for someone that isn't in your alliance.

"RE: EP3 Editing Thoughts"
Posted by Flowerpower on 10-03-11 at 07:27 AM
Interesting, michel. I will have to rewatch the TC when Jeff questioned Ozzy regarding being voted out with the idol. I think it did make him uncomfortable. I just may not have given Jim much credit, as he boasts that he's a world champion, yet he is not. But, as always, you raise an interesting point...maybe there is some substance to Jim. So far, the editing has me doubting his chances. I could be wrong, as I'm not a poker player! I just get vibes that Jim will be the one "played"...

"RE: EP3 Editing Thoughts"
Posted by Krautboy on 10-03-11 at 11:25 AM
LAST EDITED ON 10-03-11 AT 11:27 AM (EST)

It's very possible that your intuitions are both correct...Ozzy gets burned, gets sent to RI, makes it back into the game, and THEN Jim gets played...


Krautboy

"RE: EP3 Editing Thoughts"
Posted by michel on 10-03-11 at 06:12 PM
Why do you think I hate RI?!
"RE: EP3 Editing Thoughts"
Posted by michel on 10-03-11 at 06:24 PM
Here are the 3 key vidcaps of the sequence:

Jeff has just mentioned that ozzy had been voted out with an idol in pocket so what Jim had said about the idol guaranteeing 3 more days wasn't entirely true.
Ozzy's reaction as he tries to answer, a classic poker tell:

Then, the camera goes to Jim who is looking in Ozzy's direction:


If that isn't meant to tell us that a lightbulb just went on in Jim's head, what is?

"RE: EP3 Editing Thoughts"
Posted by Flowerpower on 10-03-11 at 07:12 PM

Wow! Quite impressive...it is telling, even for me! Thanks for posting!


"RE: EP3 Editing Thoughts"
Posted by Dangerous on 10-04-11 at 06:09 PM
Thanks for a very interesting analysis, Michel. In particular your commentary around Ozzie's "poker tell" is fascinating. What a wonderfully subtle editing job.

I wish that I had more time this week to comment on everybody's thoughts and to offer up analysis of my own. Unfortunately I have been moving house and this is the first time I have been online in almost a week. So before I hasten back to complete my unpacking, a couple of thoughts:

1) I am still unconvinced of Sophie's chances - I would like to understand what her story is and how it relates to the themes of the season as I see them to date. I will be however keeping an open mind and watching the next couple of episodes with interest.

2) I still see Coach as a strong contender despite some negative elements to his edit - the overall edit is certainly one of redemption. And I have not completely eliminated Edna despite a lack of visibility to date - she has a long-term edit and her game seems to be tied to Coach.

3) I agree that there has been a lot of focus on Upolu. However, a great deal of the drama, as centred upon Brandon, has occurred in Upolu. It would not surprise me if the winner is from Upolu. However I think that there is a possibility that the winner may emerge from Savaii - to some degree the editing of the tribe interplay is more subtly crafted than is the case for Upolu. Or perhaps I am reading too much into this?

4)Cochran is certainly a strong contender for Sole Survivor - your points are well made Michel.

5) However, Dawn still intrigues me. I have questions around the editing of her breakdown in the first episode, especially given her lack of visibility in the last two episodes. Two comments about her strength in challenges seem oddly placed and her only confessional (at Tribal Council)I believe (as you stated) will be an accurate assessment of the alliances this season. I am also intrigued by the amount of facetime she receives, despite a lack of confessionals. The amount of attention Dawn receives in close-ups is puzzling, and to my mind reminiscent of Danni in Survivor Guatemala, who despite a marked lack of confessionals until late in the game, was always in the forefront of the camera shots. Am I reaching? Possibly. Probably. We'll see - still watching her edit with extreme interest!

"RE: EP3 Editing Thoughts"
Posted by michel on 10-04-11 at 07:07 PM
I like your comments, Dangerous,

You write: "...to some degree the editing of the tribe interplay is more subtly crafted than is the case for Upolu."

I have to agree: When I rewatched the episode, I was struck by the subtlety of the edits in Savaii compared to the in-your-face presentation in Upolu. Everyone in Savaii has a connection to a possible story down the road while Upolu has many invisible characters and its story could be resolved with one vote.

Mind you: Sometimes the winner is in the tribe with the most invisible characters (Jalapao and Ometepe come to mind) while sometimes the winner is on the opposite tribe, (Galu had the invisible players) so we can't make a rule out of it.

But for Savaii, we have:

- Jim is a schemer, he may have realized that Ozzy was hiding a "good hand" but he has no tone: He isn't a big villain but it doesn't seem that we are pushed to root for him either. Earl had a "poker face" theme associated to his story but, even as early as episode 3, we had seen him as a positive character. Todd had a devious schemer edit but we had connected to his story, knowing he was a big fan of the show and seeing all the alliances developing around him.

- Cochran has the biggest story going on in Savaii yet his role isn't really defined yet. Nerdy kid trying his best or big player?

- Whitney is connected to the 5 but we know she is closer to Keith. The girl cursed when she learned that Ozzy had the idol. That is much more interesting than whatever intentions people imagined Andrea had last season but we know nothing of her personally. Considering she is a minor star, that is surprising.

- Keith is seen as a brother by Ozzy and a follower by Jim yet we know he is planning something behind their back. Yet Keith himself is an enigma.

- Ozzy says he wants to improve his game but we see him repeating the same mistakes yet there isn't the arrogance so obvious in Micronesia.

- Elyse seems to be connected to everyone in the tribe but not to the audience. She helped Cochran with his first coconut, she is close to Whitney but we haven't heard them talk, she is apparently well liked by the guys but we haven't heard a single friendly/ flirtatious exchange.

- Finally Dawn had the biggest premiere outside of Ozzy and Cochran yet her story has been put on the back-burner since. If you are rooting for her, then I would see Mark's elimination as troubling. Like her, he had a good premiere, was ignored in the second episode and revived in his boot episode. The same could happen to Dawn and the challenge praise she received could simply have been the editors' way of thanking her for being an interesting character that they couldn't really feature. Don't forget, her episode #1 breakdown may have been shown only because, for once, the editors had 90 minutes to work with. You compare her to Danni but don't forget that Danni had been involved in the two biggest early season stories: She had uncovered Gary's big secret and she told us that the women had endured the trek better than the guys who had all fallen ill.

Still, Dawn does have substance on a tribe that is more interesting when we look closely at it. She has to be a contender.

What if Savaii is shown as playing a game of poker, each remaining an enigma because we do not yet know which cards they are holding?



Thanks Agman!

"Quick Ep 4 thought"
Posted by OllieKat on 10-05-11 at 11:34 PM
One thing stood out to me on first view and I'm not entirely sure what I'm supposed to think about it. The big Jim/John scene. I felt like I was supposed to be somewhat impressed with the game-awareness they showed when it came to recognizing that Ozzy/Elyse could be a formidable threat as a pair and also recognizing that Ozzy could be following in Rob's footsteps. I think I was supposed to appreciate that Jim is, at the same time, taking a page from Rob's playbook by having a few different deals and remembering that "the game respects big moves". But for all of that I also feel like the editors made them look kind of stupid because I'm sure at least 75% of the people watching were saying "hey guys, you can team up all you want but 2 or 3 votes is STILL less than 4!" They were shown acting like they were getting ready to pull off one of the biggest moves ever yet we haven't been shown anything to suggest that they'll be able to get Keith/Whitney on board, so how do they think they're going to vote Elyse out???????????????? I think perhaps the whole point of showing the scene is just to have us tuck it away for later when they may be able to team up with some Upolo to actually affect a vote the way they want. Otherwise, based on what we've been shown so far, there's no way for them to pull it off.
"RE: Quick Ep 4 thought"
Posted by kiki_k on 10-05-11 at 11:41 PM
My thoughts exactly -- big whoop you've got 3 votes against 4 and are already counting your chickens before they're hatched. Not a flattering edit, IMO.
"RE: Quick Ep 4 thought"
Posted by dabo on 10-05-11 at 11:45 PM
The alliance is crumbling. We already know that Keith is just waiting for his chance to de-throne Ozzy, Keith and Whitney both know about Ozzy's HII, meanwhile Jim is trying to mastermind himself into the control position. There are a lot of possibilities here. If Jim follows through and tries to get something going, no matter how it works out the alliance gets reshuffled.
"RE: Quick Ep 4 thought"
Posted by kiki_k on 10-06-11 at 04:00 AM
Jim's edit this episode didn't bode well for him, IMO, even with his lifting 240 lbs. Way too cocky when he doesn't have the numbers. He's probably the next boot -- now *that* would be a blindside in the great Survivor "pride goeth before the fall" tradition.
"RE: Quick Ep 4 thought"
Posted by Flowerpower on 10-06-11 at 07:29 AM
meanwhile Jim is trying to mastermind himself into the control position.

Yes, but in the preview it was Cochran that got the mastermind label from Jeff...

at Savaii, the new mastermind is...
Cochran (shaking hands with Jim): Alright, it's a done deal.
Probst: ...Cochran.

It wasn't Cochran's plan, it was Jim's. Something is very fishy here. Will Jim's plan turn into Cochran's plan...will Cochran spin the plan?


"RE: Quick Ep 4 thought"
Posted by michel on 10-06-11 at 07:29 AM
"hey guys, you can team up all you want but 2 or 3 votes is STILL less than 4!"

But that's where Dawn's Tribal Council quote comes into play:

"I see it shifting throughout the day so I don’t know that I see it as locked.”

Already, we know it isn't an alliance of 5.



Thanks Agman!

"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by michel on 10-08-11 at 07:01 PM
Jeff’s recap reminded us that, at Upolu, Coach thought he had assembled a solid alliance of 5.
He had Edna as a spare 6 while leaving Stacey at the bottom of the pecking order.
But Brandon started behaving erratically…
…He went against Coach’s plan and covertly targeted Mikayla.
Later, he blew up in front of the entire tribe.
Brandon’s loose cannon behavior put everyone on edge…
<Mikayla shown crying>
…Especially Coach: “Brandon worries me. You are either loyal or you’re disloyal.”

In Savaii, Ozzy was also in an alliance of 5 and he thought he was in charge.
Keith and Jim made up his core 3, Whitney and Elyse were his plus 2, leaving the oldest and the nerdiest on the chopping block.
<Cochran is heard saying he didn’t want to go home>
At the immunity challenge, Coach led Upolu to a landslide victory…
…sending Savaii to Tribal Council where Papa Bear tried to save himself by steering votes to Cochran.
In the end, Cochran prevailed, sending Papa Bear to join Christine on Redemption Island…

The recap tells the story almost completely from the point of view of the returning players. As Ozzy said about his position in the tribe, they are the anchors of the story. Or maybe it would be more accurate to call them the frame of the story because the picture is slowly coming into focus:
- Brandon is the story of Upolu. Note that, subtly, the recap gave Brandon the role of the potential Victim instead of Mikayla. Coach was heard calling him disloyal which put him in danger.
- Cochran is the story of Savaii. Note that, again, Cochran is credited with saving himself, Jeff saying that he had prevailed when, in reality, Ozzy’s alliance had agreed from the start to spare him.

Both “stars” are distractions, big characters used to build a story from which someone else will emerge. Cochran’s character continues to hit on all the right themes. This episode showed us one story that can rival his.

The theme of this episode came from Jeff’s words at Tribal Council:

Trust and Unity are Hard to Maintain

Savaii
Day 9

Note that by starting in Savaii and in the morning once all TC discusions had ended ignored Papa Bear’s arrival at RI and his significance to the tribe. It was a big hint that Christine would prevail. Mark’s story was already over.

Elyse and Ozzy were cuddling in the hammock, Elyse asking about Ozzy’s family.
He told her that he was the only one into Survivalism in the family and that it had come from reading Robinson Crusoe’s adventures.
Much like Rob had witnesses to bond forming between Andrea and Matt, we saw Jim spying on the new couple.

Jim: “I’m thinking right now that Elyse and Ozzy have a tighter bond than people realize. I know the game well enough to know that a pair is very powerful and the thing is that Ozzy is powerful enough as a physical presence in this game that you can’t give him that physical presence and that voting presence because he is going to run it like Rob did last year. So, I am thinking that I can’t get Ozzy out so Elyse has got to go.”

He presented his strategy to Cochran, telling him that Elyse was a variable and he liked constants.
The pair was excited about pulling a big “survivor move”.

Cochran: “Jim is kind of a sketchy character. He has this used-car salesman smile with pearly white teeth that appear suspiciously white to me but he wants Elyse gone next which is absolutely music to my ears. If Elyse goes first, that buys me another 3 days and who knows what Ozzy is going to do?”

The editors, letting us hear this very interesting confessional by Cochran, stole a big part of Jim’s thunder. The sequence makes Jim look somewhat like a kid, eager to pull the big survivor move when it could be too soon. For Cochran, nothing is too soon because, as he said, he needs those next 3 days and he is also considering that Ozzy would want to retaliate against Jim. While Jim was at the origin of the move, it was Cochran that saw its full potential and planned on using it to his own advantage. If anyone doubts that we are supposed to see Cochran as the real mastermind, just consider that we heard Jim hesitating because Elyse is “so freakin’ hot”. Cochran wasn’t hesitating and he even joked about Jim’s loss of focus by saying he’d put on a seaweed wig!
This plot will come to fruition.

Upolu – Day 9

Brandon had a confessional that was introduced by the sound of bells (were they AC/DC’s Hell’s Bells?): “This game, to me, is so jacked up when it comes to people’s feelings. I came into this game with good intentions but it was ruined by my pride. I let my pride get a hold of me and I started gravitating towards lying to people. Every day is a struggle. I can’t tell you, tomorrow, that I won’t be upset but from here on out, I promise to be a better person, a better player, a better survivor.”

I’m afraid that this is the start of a Journey edit. Brandon’s story is turning into his personal struggle to get out of Survivor’s hell. Witness the smoke all around him and the tribe at the beginning of his interview. His story will be rehashed every week until he leaves as a “good person”, redeemed from the sins of his family. His conflict with Mikayla came to an abrupt end with his apology and it wouldn’t surprise me if she is soon presented as the evil one, bent on getting him out.

Mikayla (her confessional was taken at least slightly out of sequence because she already has the bikini that will only be delivered with tree mail.) : “I understand that you are doing the right thing by apologizing but, dude, maybe you should think two or three times before you talk because he does this thing that he shouldn’t have done then he apologizes and that makes him look like a fool but look whohis uncle is!”

Brandon’s next apology was for Edna. He told her that the tribe had lied to her, that the real alliance only had 5 members and that she wasn’t counted in it.
He told her: “The people that you trusted, including me, lied to you.”

Edna: “Brandon pulled me aside and told me that I actually wasn’t part of the alliance of six. He said that the other people in the alliance have basically just tolerated me and that, given the opportunity, I’d be the next to go. It was a terrible feeling because you think you are part of this group but it is easier to believe a lie sometimes than it is to accept the truth.”

Note that, while Sophie and Albert were seen during this confessional, Coach was not. However, as far as the audience knows, Coach assembled that alliance of 5 and Edna has only been talking with Coach so he is the one receiving the blame for lying to Edna.


Tree Mail – Savaii

Dawn: “Being Mormon, I was never comfortable swimming in my uderwear and bra.”

Interesting that, while Elyse and Whitney are the bikini models in this group, it was Dawn’s impression that we heard first

After some hesitations, Jim and Cochran were designated to go watch the duel.

Jim: “I want to go but, at the same time, I didn’t like the idea of Cochran and I going because nobody knows that Cochran and I are together and guilt by association is not a way to win this game.”

Watching Whitney and Elyse parading in their new swimsuit, Dawn had another confessional: “I honestly think that the thing that concers me the most in this game is my age. As I watched the other people that would be playing, I asked myself: “Am I Rudy on this tribe?” I mean, I love Rudy but for 40, I’m on the old side. But, I feel I have to show the Savaii tribe what I can do because there are already some comfortable pairings and groupings and there could already be some alliances so I believe that I absolutely have to perform. No question, I can’t be the weakest.”

This confessional pretty much confirms that Dawn is a Journey player, wanting to prove that she fits in. The confessional, although probably taken from day 1 and presented at a very opportune time, lacked some of the game awareness that is usually associated with an eventual winner.

Jim talked to Ozzy about planting a seed in the minds of the players from the other side but Ozzy felt it was too early.

Ozzy: “If you plan on going far in this game, you definitely try to think a few steps ahead” Note that Cochran is shown at this precise moment! “But Jim is trying to play the strategy point too much.”


This aligns well with the impression we had during this episode’s opening confessionals. We can now say that Jim is playing too much, Ozzy not enough while Cochran is thinking a few steps ahead.

Soon after, (Not immediately because, somehow, Whitney and Keith had taken over Elyse’s spot in the shelter) Jim and Cochran left.
Ozzy mocked Jim by repeating: “Strategy, strategy, strategy…”
Whitney chirped in: “No more strategy.”

Dawn: “While Cochran and Jim were walking out, Ozzy was saying we are not going to talk strategy. He was kind of mocking Jim like, don’t think too much strategy but I’m not sure that’s how I’ve seen Ozzy play this game in the past. I think he is strategizing but he does it at a different time and place. He doesn’t want us strategizing and that just irks me to no end.”

This confessional has more game insight. Note that she used the word “us” which indicates she was already part of a Jim, Cochran, Dawn group when she said that.

The Duel

Papa Bear took the opprtunity to tell Jim and Cochran that he would flip to Upolu if given the chance.
Jeff turned to Brandon saying it must be nice to hear they could have a new ally.
Brandon was more interested in pursuing his Apology Tour so he told Christine he was sorry for what he did at their Tribal Council and for being ruthless.
It was a close duel with most of the reaction shots going to Jim. He was surprised by Christine’s success. I wouldn’t say that suggest they could team up later on but I thought it should be noted. Maybe Jim faces Christine in a duel instead.
Mark had a nice exit, the editors giving him time to express how much he wanted to live this adventure.

Christine: “I want the spectators to see that I am not out.

Upolu
Day 10

Edna: “Knowing what Brandon told me is going to make me more cautious in trusting other individuals in my alliance. So, for me, it is important to be cordial and polite. It’s a social game and I have to emphasize the social aspect of my strategy because, physically, I can’t win this.”

She offered to clean Rick’s shirt while Coach requested that she walked on his back.
Edna had a good reply: “I don’t mind, I’ll walk on anybody.”

Stacey: “Edna is annoying. The girl goes on and on and on…She needs to be disconnected.”

The women went to the ocean to do the laundry so Edna started asking Mikayla about her modeling gigs.

Mikayla: “Edna asks so many darn questions… We couldn’t shut her up.”

Edna then massaged Coach’s back by walking on him.

Mikayla: “Her little laugh is going to haunt me when I get home.”
Stacey gave us an imitation of that laugh.

Even if this scene served to make us think Edna could get voted out, it also showed us that she doesn’t have the right social skills needed for this game. However, it was important to note which players were used to talked negatively against Edna: Stacey who has been voted out and Mikayla who, just last episode, was the tribe’s punching bag and is now delivering some punches herself. That turnaround in her story is bad news to her fans.

Savaii

As soon as Coachran returned, he went to Dawn to learn about any discussions happening while they were gone.
Dawn told him that Ozzy put the clamp on any plans to strategize.
Cochran said they would need to get something going to save each other.

Cochran: “Jim and I developped a good partnership moving forward but, numerically, it doesn’t look straighforward that we are going to be able to get rid of Elyse. Right now, there is only Jim and I on board with voting out Elyse. So, we are going to need to find somebody who is willing to do this or else we’re screwed.”

He asked Dawn what would be her next move.
Dawn said she wanted Ozzy to go but that, if Jim and Cochran wanted Elyse gone, she would go along.
During this discussion, Elyse was shown in the ocean close to Ozzy who had taken off his swim suit and was holding it up high.

To me, that was a clear signal that Ozzy will get caught with his pants down!!

Cochran’s confessional continued: “It turns out that Dawn is on the same page and wants Elyse out. For somebody like me who thrives on big strategic moves and loves seeing that in a game like Survivor, I have been dying to be part of something like this. Getting rid of Elyse is going to devastate Ozzy and it might make the other pretty people feel a little bit less secure. This is finally the time that the Savaii tribe makes a move that is going to change the game and is going to surprise a lot of people.”

During this scene, Jim was shown a few times sitting in the shelter or looking out at the ocean. The intent obvious: While the poker player wasn’t doing a thing to improve his hand, Cochran was thinking ahead and working on the details. He doesn’t have it all worked out yet but this confirms the earlier impression that Cochran is to be viewed as the tribe’s mastermind.


Immunity Challenge:

The players chosen to hold the weights were:
Jim, Keith and Dawn for Savaii
Albert, Brandon and Stacey for Upolu.
It was a surprise to see that the two self-proclaimed strong women of Upolu didn’t take Stacey’s place but it’s possible that Stacey insisted in order to save herself.
Brandon being picked instead of Rick was another minor surprise.

After 26 minutes, Keith was shown struggling and he was the first to drop.
As he has done during the whole season, Albert fell off his perch without drawing any attention.
Jeff said that Jim and Brandon both broke Survivor’s record. In actuality, Brandon outlasted Jim so he should hold the record himself. Should we take note that Brandon wasn’t truly credited for the record or is it simply the way Jeff thinks?

The game came down to the two women and, after a valiant effort, Stacey dropped her bar.

Dawn: “I had a really tough day 1 and day 2 but I came back strong and I think I can contribute. By being the last person standing in that challenge today, it felt so good. I couldn’t breathe, I couldn’t believe it.”

By winning the challenge for her team, Dawn became the star of the episode but how far reaching is this story? Was she highlighted in the episode’s opening sequence because this is the start of a great story arc or was it just so we would cheer for her in her duel against Stacey? It could be a bit of both. That confessional included a reference to being the last person standing so we could say Dawn has already told us how winning Survivor would feel but, on the other hand, it also tells us that she has won, has reached her real goal which was proving she was strong. Some will see it as a winning quote, the others as her story’s destination.
As an aside, the reward chicken didn’t get nearly the same amount of airtime as their predecessors in Australia, Africa, Samoa, etc…Call them Purple Chickens.

Upolu – Day 11

Stacey: “We didn’t win the challenge…but I think I proved that I have strength. More than anyone of the girls…I could be blindsided.”

Edna: “I felt pretty confident within my alliance but, at the same time, I have this little voice inside of me that says everybody perceives me as the weakest link in the tribe so I want to make absolutely sure that I am safe. I won’t feel safe until after Tribal tonight.”

I find it strange that Edna is still talking about being confident in her alliance after what Brandon told her. It makes me consider that, in reality, Brandon talked to her after this Tribal Council. If the editors manipulated the timeframe of Brandon’s apologies, it reinforces our thoughts that Brandon is on a Journey to make amends, a journey of redemption.

Stacey: “Edna is like on an Easter egg hunt right now. She is scrambling like scrambled eggs on a hot skillet…You haven’t talked to me since day 1 and now you want to talk to me? We know it’s either me or you. They should vote out Edna over me.”

After what seemed to me like a poor attempt at lifting the tribe’s spirit, Coach continued to do some coaching by going to Stacey.
Stacey wanted to know where she stood.
Coach could only say it was between her and somebody else.
Stacey understood that meant Edna to which Coach replied he couldn’t lie. He ended by saying he liked her.

Stacey in confessional, told us what we should make of Coach’s words: “I am not buying Coach’s BS at all. That loyalty game playing stuff and all, I don’t buy that whatsoever… I’m not a very big liar…but I have to lie to get in to fit in.”

Stacey went to Brandon.

Brandon: “Stacey told me to keep my eyes on Mikayla, Sophie and Albert. I would really like to think that everybody is keeping their promises as far as final five but it’s Survivor and everyone is looking out for themselves. It’s a really selfish game and you have to do what you have to do to win.”

Brandon told Coach that they might not have an alliace of 5: “It might be the end of the road as far as that goes. Stacey came up to me and said Mikayla, Sophie and Albert might have something going on.”
Coach stopped him: “This game is going to get so much crazier than this and, if you believe somebody…that is on death row like Stacey knows she is over somebody that is on our core alliance then you may as well throw in the towel right now...”
With a lot of à propos, Brandon asked: “I’m just curious how many people screwed you over the last two games you played?”
Coach tried to explain why it happened but, like Brandon, the audience wasn’t meant to believe he really knew why and how to remedy it.

With Coach’s story going downhill fast, we see that his elimination is already being set-up. He should heed the warning that Bradon just relayed because Mikayla, Sophie and Albert could indeed have something going on. You only get blindsided by people that are in your core alliance.

Sophie who had been watching from nearby had a confessional: “I thought I had a five strong plus Edna alliance going but it seems like we will have to do some reshuffling. Only because our alliance is based on trust and just because you are in it doesn’t mean we are always going to trust you. We’ll trust you until you do something wrong and now, it seems that Brandon is only a small, small Russell Hantz.”

Coach: “I think Brandon is a great guy and I want to be with Brandon every step of the way but I am worried that he will kick the kettle at the most inopportune time and ruin the game for everybody. That’s why I have to also protect myself. I have to remember that I am out here for the third and possibly (jeez!) final time. This has got to be my game and I can’t let anybody or anything mess it up.”

For the first time we heard Coach having one of his patented dramatic confessional, complete with hand gestures and self-importance. That isn’t a good sign. It is quite possible that, in an attempt to be with Brandon all the way, Coach loses Sophie’s trust and the reshuffling will be at his expense.

Tribal Council

Stacey told Jeff she did all she could during the challenge.
Turning to Coach, Jeff looked at both sides of the medal: “You can say Stacey gave a great effort or you can say that Stacey lost to Dawn.”
Coach said that if he was looking for warrior spirit then Stacey would be safe.
Saying that this tribe had always talked about staying strong, Jeff asked Sophie to define strength for the tribe.
Sophie: “I think you look at strength in numbers as well as physical strength because, if you come to the merge and you are not certain about somebody, that’s not a number, that is less of a tribe.” <The camera was on Brandon as she said this.> “We are trying to balance physical strength and team unity strength.”
Doing a bit a team therapy, Jeff asked Rick what was most annoying about Albert.
Seemingly not knowing him any better than we do, Rick hesitated, only able to say that Albert snores.
Brandon said Edna was annoying because she had a lot to say about a lot.
Edna disagreed.
Mikayla and Stacey frowned.
Edna said it was difficult to engage Stacey.
Stacey said it wasn’t hard for her to open up.
Asked about Brandon, Mikayla said: “He’s a great kid but it’s always in the back of my mind who is uncle is.”
Put on the spot, Brandon said he was proud to be a Hantz. “He came on the show and did a great job. His strategy doesn’t have to be my strategy.”
Jeff wanted to know how difficult it was to hear people talk ill of Russell.
That brought on a long tearful tirade where Brandon said he only wanted to be somebody that God is proud of. He ended it by telling Jeff that he would reclaim the family name in a positive light.
Albert said that Trust would be a big factor in their vote.

As Stacey stood to get her torch, we heard Coach telling the group to give her a hug.
She turned him down flat, pushing him away.
She explained to Jeff that the hug wasn’t real that everything was a lie.

The camera made sure we knew that she was talking specifically about Coach.

Jeff sent them back to camp after saying: “…Trust and Unity are two of the qualities you are trying to base this tribe on but they are two of the most difficult aspects of this game to maintain.”

In her final word, Stacey told us that Coach was running things and that she would spill the beans during the next duel.



The Story

While the story is still framed by its two “legendary” players, we see some of the new players taking over the spotlight. This episode set up both Coach and Ozzy to be voted out the next time their tribe goes to tribal Council. Ozzy is still blind to the strategy around him so he will be caught with his pants down while Coach was shown lying and ignoring warning signs. Somehow, I feel that Edna’s words will come into play soon: “It is easier to believe a lie sometimes than it is to accept the truth.”


The Characters

The Players Without a Story:
Whitney: That is 4 episodes without a confessional and now she is only shown as one of the pretty people in the tribe. It seems like a strong possibility that Whitney will last a while but we are not meant to root for her.

Elyse: Although she always had a minor role in each episode, Elyse is now a target by association. Mary was eliminated for being close to Mikey B, Matt for being with Andrea so this is a proven strategy. That means we can’t even say that Elyse would be a Victim in this game. To paraphrase Cochran: For viewers who thrive on big strategic moves and love seeing that in a game like Survivor, we would want to see her voted out. Unless there is a bigger fish in the ocean!

Rick: Even when prompted by Jeff, he can only deliver a lame two word answer. This guy won a contest to be on the show?

Albert: It seems certain that, like in the challenge, Albert’s stay in the game will come to an end without fanfare, much less glory.

Keith: Never a big character, Keith was reduced to a being one of the pretty people in this episode. The small game awareness we saw from him in the previous episodes makes him a prime candidate to believe a lie that he would be fed by the mastermind of his tribe. Keith seems to have some knowledge of the game but in very limited supply. A little knowledge is a very dangerous thing.

The Players with a Story but no Game:

Christine and Stacey: Each received a nice opportunity to be on TV. They must have been proud enough to show their adventure to their families but they aren’t part of the game anymore. Neither has the big character development that enabled us to see that Matt had a shot to return. Their edits merely serve to keep our interest in what is happening on Redemption island. (As such, I’d say it is failing miserably) Soon, they should be joined by a player that will outmatch them

Mikayla : I find it interesting that she is so caught up in Hantz’s family ties when the story is making her out to be the product of learned behavior instead of genetics: She was once bullied so now she, in turn, becomes a bully. Her conflict with Brandon ended as abruptly as Tocantin’s vaunted cross tribal alliance which is poor story-telling in my opinion. From commiserating with her plight, we are now meant to be upset with her as she lashes out against Edna. Mikayla may have had a story but it is coming to an end and she was never really part of the game’s strategy.

Brandon : His story is following a clear trajectory, the only question being how long it will drag on. I think most viewers are still far from seeing him as someone that God would be proud of. So, from an execrable almost taliban-like bully to an apologetic Christian, there has been care given to his edit which tells me we could see him last a while.

Stories Coming to an End:
Ozzy : We see him resting in the shelter as Jim proposes a plan to fool the other tribe. Then he is frolicking in the ocean as a plan is set in motion to target his closest ally. Yet, we are presented with a player as arrogant as ever, believing he is the anchor of his tribe. Jim and Cochran opened the episode by telling us that Ozzy sees himself as invaluable. Same kid, same edit, same result.

Coach : After a great start it was always a question of wondering when the true Coach would return. Announced in the previous one, his arrival happened in this episode. We see him staying with the wrong people, we see him ignoring a possible move against him and we hear his lies despite his claims of honesty.

Characters with Game ties:
Edna : Edna, from the start, has had some character development and now she is trying to get involved in the game. With the knowledge that Brandon has given her, she could really turn things around in this tribe and blindside Coach. He’s the one that lied to her so she could tell Sophie and the others that he had wanted to go to the end with her. That would certainly end the trust they have for Coach. With Stacey promising to tell everyone that Coach is running things, Edna would get a great assist to help her convince the tribe to eliminate Coach. I don’t think that would be enough to turn Edna’s story into that of a winner but it would make things interesting. Imagine, the one that came to Coach’s aid in episode 1 would become the dragon-slayer’s slayer.

Jim : He is a smart guy but we hear that he is a sketchy car-salesman. We once had a sketchy car-salesman win this game but his negative qualities were evident only to the audience. None of the players ever called Brian sketchy until it was too late to stop him. There is plenty of time to stop Jim. Cochran is already considering that Ozzy could retaliate against Jim if they go after Elyse. It is even possible that Cochran could turn the tables on Jim if he can’t get the numbers against Ozzy’s alliance. Jim is portrayed as playing the game too hard too fast.

Sophie: The question with Sophie centers around her plans to reshuffle the alliance. Does she have something brewing with Mikayla and Albert? She has been portrayed as a smart player so there probably is something behind all that smoke. She still has to be considered a contender, the only good one left in Upolu, but the editors will need to show us more of her involvement in the game.

Dawn: As I said above, our task, in analyzing Dawn’s story, is to determine if her confessional after winning the immunity challenge was a winning quote or if it established what her goal was in this game. Until further evidence, I will see it as clearly setting Dawn on a Journey to Prove herself and that story was pretty much contained in this episode. She will evolve from this as someone we are meant to root for but I don’t see enough of the strategy being told from her point of view to consider her the winner.

Cochran : If we judge his chances by the amount of credit he is given by the editors then it’s easy to call Cochran this season’s winner. Jim and Mark saved him in episode 1 but the following recap told us that Cochran saved himself. The same pattern was used in this episode where Cochran was said to have prevailed even if Ozzy’s alliance never targeted him. In addition, Jim’s big move was credited to the new “mastermind”. He got the important confessionals to explain the plan and its ramifications. He even hinted that Jim’s move could turn against Jim, depending on what Ozzy does. This character has substance, an edit that is carefully manucured and the game’s strategy is explained from his point of view.

It is still early (and he may get voted out the next time Savaii goes to TC!) but, with the evidence before me, I declare that the Next Sole Survivor will be Cochran.


This was the first vidcap I have ever created so be gentle! I have many people to thank for teaching me how to do this, most notably cahaya but the quality suggests I have more to learn!

"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by Belle Book on 10-08-11 at 08:01 PM
I'd like to see Edna be the Dragon-slayer's slayer! I think Mikayla still has some legs on her, however. And I wouldn't mind Cochran winning, as he's a nerd and I think I'd like him.


"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by Flowerpower on 10-09-11 at 10:06 AM
Great insights, as always, Michel. And, GREAT JOB on your first video capture! It is very satisfying to get your own, well done, and I sooooo MISSED that. What an eagle eye you have!

An interesting turn of events for our stars, Ozzy and Coach. Ozzy's edit, has gone down hill steadily from episode one, imo. I think Dawn pegged him well, right off the bat. He's a little "too" Bob Marley. And, I think he's gotten worse since his earlier seasons. I look at him and feel the same way that Papa Bear did about him, in his post game interviews....FOCUS, bro! Just don't see it happening until perhaps his eyes can be opened. He's being set up to be blindsided with an Elyse boot, but could her boot lead to his boot? No doubt about it, if his back pocket girl is cut loose, Ozzy is up for a very rude awakening. It could be worse, Ozzy could be met with his own demise and banishment to RI. Lucky for Ozzy that he is capable of going on a challenge run, it could save him, but would it be too little, too late to end up in the F3?

Coach also took a turn downward. And, in the previews we see him searching for the idol. I suspect that his enemies on RI are out to spill it all, and it's having a paranoid effect on Coach. But, unlike Ozzy, Coach does seem focused. "This has got to be my game and I can’t let anybody or anything mess it up.” He's being proactive, and searching for something that could buy him time.

I found it odd that the disclosure that Brandon made to Edna regarding her standing in the tribe had no follow through. Seeing Coach searching for the HII with renewed interest in the promos makes me feel he's aware of this disclosure. He's got to be furious with Brandon, and needs to do some damage control with Edna. It also seems that Sophie noted that Edna is the +1 in their alliance, and therefore she'll get wind of it too.

For me, both tribes are starting to play the game for themselves...Coach and Ozzy got them through the initial set up, but now they are using their own ways and means to play the game. I don't think they will all stay "loyal". Coach seems more aware of it, Ozzy is clueless. I'd say it bodes better for Coach than Ozzy.

Regarding our other central characters, Brandon and Cochran. I agree, Brandon does appear to be on a journey, he's out to rectify the good vs. evil personas on national television. While he's erratic at camp, he consistanly shows that he indeed has worth in the challenges. He was great in the weight lifting challenge. Which, imo, is what is saving him. Disclosing his heritage to the tribe is what will make him the great little goat boy.

Cochran is interesting to me, because he's being given so much more credit than what he deserves, as you point out. His edit is being manipulated for the better. I feel like he's being forced down our throats as well, just as Brandon is. It's almost like they are forcing us to like him. He's not doing that much for me at this point. Regardless, if he's the winner or not. I do think that Dawn and Cochran will be bound to each other for the duration of this game, most likely it will be Dawn that enables Cochran, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was Cochran that was edited to be the "mastermind". He already has been given that label, and I for one, think it's too forced, I just don't see it. He's lucky to have been placed on a tribe that has stronger players both physically and personality wise, because they will over shadow his meeker presence, imo. He's like an opportunist. But, we all know there IS more than one way to get to the end of Survivor.

Great post, michel and GREAT eye! Thanks for sharing!

"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by OllieKat on 10-09-11 at 12:20 PM
Awesome insights everyone!

The only thing I kind of disagree with and would like to discuss if anyone's willing is how the Edna/Mikayla/Stacey thing was edited.

Michel said about Mikayla "From commiserating with her plight, we are now meant to be upset with her as she lashes out against Edna."
I didn't see it like that in regards to Mik (or Stacey). I felt like the editors gave us visual/audio to back up everything the two said about Edna and that we were meant to agree with them.

I heard Edna laugh for just a little bit four days ago and I can still recall it so I'm sure Mik still hears it in her sleep. Edna reminded me of a small kid asking "why is the sky blue? why is the grass green? why is the sun yellow?" And on and on and on - I've been there with small kids and it can be exhausting. So when Stacey wanted to find the disconnect button on Edna I agreed. I also thought Mik's story about Rick telling everyone about shooting a buffalo (I think) and then Edna asking all the questions was really funny and showed us a different side of Mik.

Maybe it's just that I personally find Edna's laugh and endless questions annoying so that's why I sided with Stacey and Mikayla. But I still think there's a good shot that the editors meant for most people to side with them.

"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by michel on 10-09-11 at 01:16 PM
Thank you FP and OllieKat for the feedback.


As for Edna vs Mikayla and Stacey, I don't doubt that Edna must be hard to live with. It really didn't need much reinforcing but it's the people that the editors chose to tell us about it that is important. Sophie and Coach had been the tribe's narrators so why use someone else? Had Sophie told us that Edna was annoying, I would have accepted it as just another of her observations. It actually would have created more doubt for the upcoming TC.

Had they chosen Rick or Albert to tell us about the annoying Edna then I would have concluded that we weren't meant to like those guys. After 4 episode, wasn't there anything more constructive they could have done instead of complaining? That would have put a (bigger) black cloud on Rick and Albert's edits.

Choosing to use Stacey's words after she had done a great job in the challenge had to be done to tell us that the tribe eliminated the wrong person. Remember, those were Jeff's last words at the previous TC. They had been addressed to Savaii but they can be applied to Upolu as well. I sided with Stacey, ageed with her that it must be frustrating to step up like she had done but see this other woman stay in her place. But I don't care about Stacey anymore because she is out of the game (Ok, not entirely but have I told you how much I hate RI? )

So, Mikayla's comments were completely superfluous. We already had reinforcement of Edna's annoying social game so Mikayla's intervention was like a late hit in Football. Worse, Mikayla had been shown as someone that needed support herself so now we see that she can dish it out but she can't take it. You don't use a sympathetic character to bring down another likable one. Therefore, the intent had to be to sever our ties a bit to Mikayla.



Thanks Agman!

"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by parathor on 10-11-11 at 12:59 PM
Mikayla's story is entirely tied up with Brandon... much like his seemed to be more focused on getting rid of a player instead of winning the game (Survivor 101).

Mikayla is easily the next to go from this tribe - you kick out the strongest non-alliance players just before the merge (Survivor 101). Brandon's story would thus be complete - he would have forgiven (and vanquished) the evil woman. But does he stay around for the end-credits after his story is over? Hmm...

Prediction: Mikayla turns invisible this episode, and next episode is given a prominent role before her vote-out.

"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by dabo on 10-11-11 at 01:20 PM
LAST EDITED ON 10-11-11 AT 01:20 PM (EST)

Mikayla, like Sophie, managed to get out of the drama zone this time. She also went negative on Edna's public social campaign, but on the positive side that did show she understood the need to get her own social game running more smoothly. Possibly she did, though not as publically, and that was what led Stacey to put a bug in Brandon's ear. It was smart of her to try to put the drama queen into play and shift the drama back onto Mikayla if possible, but she waited too long since she was walking the last mile at that point. Stacey may have correctly pegged what was going on with Albert, Mikayla and Sophie, or it may just have been her own invented reality, at this point there's no way to tell.

"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by kiki_k on 10-09-11 at 02:45 PM
Thank you so much michel & FloPo -- your insights are great as always plus THANK GOD I'm not the only one thinking John (stupid punk asking to be called Cochran) is getting way too much credit. I agree 100% the editors are forcing him down our throats & the obvious manipulation of his edit does make me think he probably gets to F3 (at least) and I have to say: I hate it. Arggh! We could be seeing that good looking Albert but all they're giving us is Taliban-Hantz and nerd-boy John Cochran. It's going to be a long season with little eye-candy.
"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by suzzee on 10-11-11 at 02:53 PM
Good analysis, enjoyed reading your take on the season so far.

Cochran winner? He certainly has the face time. On the other hantz...

Brandon .... we could see him last a while.

You're killing my brain cells, I may miss half the season by hitting the mute button.



I miss Lodge Life

"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by Dangerous on 10-11-11 at 03:18 PM
LAST EDITED ON 10-11-11 AT 03:21 PM (EST)

Before examining Episode 4 I would like to revisit my summary of the key themes to this season. Negative first impressions/a rocky start can be overcome through:

a) Stepping up when it counts and putting the effort in
b) Building relationships with loyal people and sticking to them (a good social game)

This episode continues to explore these themes. In particular, trust and unity is examined, with particular reference to the 5-strong alliances on both Upolu and Savaii.

An interesting recap reminds us of the ”loose cannon behavior” of Brandon which worries Coach: ”Either you’re loyal or disloyal”. We see further indications in the episode of the destructive potential of Brandon to Upolu’s alliance through his conversation with Edna.

Edna: ”Brandon pulled me aside and said that I was actually not part of the alliance of six. He said that the other five people in the alliance have basically just tolerated me and that given the opportunity I’d be the next to go.”

Brandon, despite his protestations of turning over a new leaf articulates a different theme to the one of loyalty:”Everyone’s out for themselves – it’s a really selfish game so you got to do what you got to do to win”.

If our key themes are to be believed, this is not a winning strategy

Sophie correctly identifies the importance of trust and loyalty and the threat posed by Brandon: ”I thought I had a 5-strong and Edna alliance going. And it seems like we’re going to have to do some reshuffling. Only because our alliance is based on trust and right now it looks more and more like Brandon is just a small small Russell Hantz”.

Coach is also concerned: ”I want to be with Brandon every step of the way, but I’m worried that he’s going to kick over the kettle at the most inopportune time and ruin the game for everybody”

The scene is set for Brandon’s disloyalty to destroy the Upolu alliance. Will they get rid of him before it is too late?

The themes of loyalty are commented on disdainfully by Stacey (”I’m not buying Coach’s BS at all. That loyalty game-playing stuff – I don’t buy that whatsoever”)

Jeff summarizes the challenge that lies ahead for Upolu: ”Trust and unity are two of the qualities you’re attempting to base this tribe on. They are also two of the most difficult aspects of this game to maintain”

In my view, the Upolu alliance’s success in this game will depend on whether they confront the disloyalty within and cut Brandon loose. If Brandon stays, it seems likely that he will turn on them. Coach and Sophie are not unaware of the danger. There are unfortunately already signs that they will either ignore this threat or be unable to take decisive action until it is too late.

On Savaii, the themes of loyalty and unity are explored more subtly. We see Ozzie’s arrogance (”I am the anchor”) emphasized with his placing of the ”oldest and the nerdiest on the chopping block”. His lounging about the shelter, frolicking in the sea and mocking of Jim highlight a selfish, individual game that is correctly assessed by Dawn. ”I think he’s strategizing – he’s just done it somewhere else or in a different time and place and so he doesn’t want us strategizing – and that just irks me to no end”

Much like Brandon (except more subtly) Ozzie is presented as a threat to tribal loyaly and unity. As Jim articulates: ”You can’t give him that physical presence and that voting presence, because then he will run it like Rob did last year”

A significant confessional by Cochran sheds lights on the direction that the game may take for Savaii. ”This is finally going to be the time when the Savaii tribe makes a move that’s going to change the course of the game and it’s going to surprise a lot of people”

I believe that, unlike Upolu, Savaii will be more successful at eliminating the identified threat to unity. Ozzie is on borrowed time and his elimination in my view may be the turning point that propels a Savaii member to victory.

The theme of stepping up after a rocky start is also developed further in certain characters, particularly Dawn: ”I feel like I have to show the Savaii tribe what I can do. It’s absolutely critical for me to perform – I can’t be the weakest.”

After a grueling immunity challenge, with apt encouragement by Jeff that mirrors Ozzie’s initial encouragement of Dawn in the first episode (”You have to find it inside yourself. You got more inside that tank”),Dawn wins for Savaii.

Dawn: ”I’ve been through a tough day one, day two – come back feeling really strong and like I had a lot to contribute. And then to be the last person standing in that challenge today…”

Will she be the last person standing at the end of the game?

At Tribal Council this theme is summarized succinctly by Brandon: ”It’s not how you start….it’s how you finish”

With the key themes in mind, let’s examine our cast:

Out of contention

Christine and Stacey are both on Redemption Island. Neither of their edits suggest a successful return and long-term stint in the game.

Whitney, Keith, Albert and Rick do not have a starring role in this production

Elyse is relegated to ”Ozzie’s backpocket”. Her game will not end well.

Ozzie’s selfish individualism is presented as the biggest threat to Savaii unity. His elimination seems imminent and I predict a pre-merge boot.

Brandon is shown to be Coach’s (and Upolu’s) nemesis. He directly opposes the themes of trust and loyalty. While his chances of winning are zero, his longevity in the game will in all likelihood be inversely related to Coach’s (and Upolu’s) ultimate success.

Sophie and Jim are both interesting characters. In particular, the ”used car salesman” with ”suspiciously white teeth” may be pivotal in ousting Ozzie, with a story that seems to have legs. However, for both of them, their lack of relationship to the season’s themes in my view eliminates them from contention.

Unlikely

Edna had a very bad episode. In a game where I believe a good social game is key to winning she is shown as being socially unaware. Is there time for her to redeem herself, to step up and learn how to play the social game. Possibly, but it will probably not be enough to win the game.

Mikayla A promising start has fizzled out. An outsider who is shown to step up, and is thus strongly connected to the season’s themes, her one-note victim edit, interspersed with sniping criticisms of Edna, does not appear to be a winning one. She needs a story, unrelated to Brandon, fast!

Slipping

Coach had a magical start to the season. Shown to overcome a rocky start, and to be a positive leader, with winning quotes aplenty, this season appeared to be a rerun of Redemption Island, with another returning player taking the spoils. Recently however, his edit has taken a subtle turn for the worse, with his sincerity questioned by Stacey (and the viewers) and his unwillingness to confront the biggest threat to unity within his tribe possibly foreshadowing his undoing. Can he turn this around, bring Brandon under control (either by voting him out or leading him to redemption)? It is possible. But his fate in this game seems strongly tied to his relationship with Brandon. Is Brandon his nemesis or will he work out a way to neutralize the younger Hantz? I will watch future episodes with interest.

The Contenders

Cochran Strongly tied to the theme of overcoming a rocky start, Cochran’s game savvy and strategic awareness has been highlighted thusfar. With good social skills and a willingness to step up and make the big moves, Cochran is a very strong contender.

But there’s just something about Dawn. Similarly to Cochran, she was strongly tied to the theme of overcoming a rocky start. I was waiting for her to step up and put the effort in, and she did (and how) this episode. I keep being reminded of Ozzie’s comments during her breakdown in the first episode(”You have something inside you that is unsure….and you need to confront it…”

If I may venture a bold prediction (inspired by Michel) I will put my money on another Savaii tribe member to win it all. In my view (and I’ve held this view since the first episode) Dawn will be the ”last one standing” and will be the Sole Survivor.

Looking forward to seeing whether future events support my interpretation!

"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by OllieKat on 10-11-11 at 03:47 PM
Great post Dangerous. Something you included triggered a thought.

First you gave us an Edna quote:
”Brandon pulled me aside and said that I was actually not part of the alliance of six. He said that the other five people in the alliance have basically just tolerated me and that given the opportunity I’d be the next to go.”

And then Sophie:
”I thought I had a 5-strong and Edna alliance going."

So according to Brandon Edna is the next to go while Sophie seems to think Edna's safe for now and, by default, Mikayla would be the next to go. So are we to assume that one of them doesn't have all the information about who is going when?

It could mean nothing but if one is shown as being in the dark does that hurt their overall chances in terms of going far/winning?

"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by Dangerous on 10-12-11 at 00:24 AM
That is interesting OllieKat. There could be a few reasons.

a) Edna is not correctly articulating what Brandon has shared.
b) "Next to go" could refer to the next to go once the core six
remains.
c) Brandon and Sophie have differing views as to the boot order.
d) One of them is in the dark, as you have shared.

It will be interesting to see how the Brandon/Sophie plotline develops. She is certainly onto him. But will she do anything about it?

"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by michel on 10-11-11 at 09:44 PM
Pretty awesome post Dangerous. Good luck with your pick! (If you turn out to be right, you know I'll use the line that I inspired you! )

This sentence caught my eye:
"The scene is set for Brandon’s disloyalty to destroy the Upolu alliance. Will they get rid of him before it is too late?"

Brandon's disloyalty is caused by his desire to be honest. In Tocantins, Coach destroyed his own tribe and his own game because he wanted to play with honesty and integrity. Wouldn't be strange if his demise comes from Hantz's honesty, especially since he was burned once by the other Hantz's dishonesty?


Thanks Agman!

"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by Dangerous on 10-12-11 at 00:27 AM
Thanks Michel. That is very interesting. I have been struck by the number of references to past seasons/players (particularly in this last episode, but throughout the season)but haven't been quite sure what to make of them. This is certainly food for thought!
"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by dabo on 10-12-11 at 00:29 AM
Let's be specific.

Coach 1.0 in Toncantins was loyal to his own warrior concept of the game, nothing else. He never had any loyalty to his tribe, to any team concept, and in the end he not only lost, he threw the game to a loyal team/tribe. Coach 1.0 was an idiot, and the only thing more idiotic was that his tribe allowed him to lead them to destruction..

History repeats itself. Coach is trying hard this time to get it right, and he is doing better. What he does not recognize is that Brandon has something above tribe loyalty and unity. Drama queen Brandon is all about redeeming the Hantz name, and manipulating others into his own self-invented reality.

Fortunately, the editing this time is allowing eveyone to see just how pathetic Brandon (ie. self-invented reality) happens to be.

"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by michel on 10-12-11 at 07:34 AM
The editing in Tocantins certainly allowed to see just how pathetic Coach really was. They gave us plenty of cinfessionals from Erinn and Taj to realize it.

As for loyalty to tribe, you are forgetting that Benji's first alliance was with Brendan. At the beginning of episode 1, Brendan was the first that Benji approached. It was only later, when first Brendan threatened his authority and especially whenTyson realized that Brendan had a cross-tribal alliance, that Benji turned on him. So, yes, Benji had loyalty to tribein mind as part of his warrior concept.

Even Debbie, in the end, voiced that Coach's honesty was what brought Timbira down.



Ils sont fous, ces Romains!

"FYI re: Cochran & Jim's edits"
Posted by kiki_k on 10-11-11 at 03:28 PM
This is only anecdotal, but I always talk with my cousin (completely unspoiled "average" viewer of all Survivor seasons) to get a take on what people who don't obsess over the game like we do think & she & her husband can't stand either Jim or Cochran.

Now Jim we can pretty much agree is being edited as a disloyal weasel(her word "weasel") but I was surprised she said that about Cochran because even though *I* don't like him & can see the obvious manipulation by the editors to try to make him look better than he is, she & her hubby (who, like I said, doesn't pay attention to these things like we do) sees it too. SO, if Cochran is our winner (I'm not convinced of that one), the editors aren't doing him too much of a favor with the forcing him down our throats. And my cousin isn't that big of an Ozzy fan (as I said, she isn't as invested in the show as more than entertainment) so it totally isn't out of any loyalty to Ozzy that she feels this way.

I'm writing all of this to point out that perhaps what we are seeing in Cochran's edit is more along the lines of trying to make him a new "villain" for the franchise & not as a winner's edit.

Another thing she pointed out to me re: Jim is that Jim wants to have the main 2 person alliance with Ozzy, which is why he targets the girls who are close to Ozzy (Semhar, now Elyse) because he is jealous of their position in the game re: Ozzy. Pretty interesting take that I hadn't considered. Could it be jealousy? Really, why not target Ozzy himself?

"RE: FYI re: Cochran & Jim's edits"
Posted by michel on 10-11-11 at 09:52 PM
Thanks for sharing. The views of casual viewers are important but let's not forget that shaping an edit is done over time. The question will be to see how they feel about Cochran by episode #12 (if he lasts that long of course)

Here, we are trying to see how the story arcs will develop in the long run, trying to see where the editors are bringing their characters. We are trying to see what casuals don't at this point. (We do it to the point of confusing ourselves sometimes!)

"RE: FYI re: Cochran & Jim's edits"
Posted by kiki_k on 10-12-11 at 02:14 AM
Here, we are trying to see how the story arcs will develop in the long run, trying to see where the editors are bringing their characters. We are trying to see what casuals don't at this point.

Thanks. I'm aware of that, which is exactly why I stated that perhaps we are missing and/or should consider looking at Cochran's edit as that of a "villain" not as a "winner" because I'm seeing an attempt to fit his edit into the category of "winner" just because it is being so obviously manipulated to make him look like some kind of mastermind.

"RE: FYI re: Cochran & Jim's edits"
Posted by Georjanna on 10-12-11 at 02:56 AM
My impression of Cochran's edit is that we are being encouraged to view him, ultimately, as the intellectually-gifted, game-savvy mastermind who should have been the Season's winner.

As opposed, perhaps, to his more entrepreneurial, avaricious and deceitful partner in crime.

A sort of, but only a sort of, Stephen to Jim's JT ... ?

"RE: FYI re: Cochran & Jim's edits"
Posted by Modesty on 10-12-11 at 03:16 AM
I have to say I agree with you Kiki. I watch the show with my casual viewer family each week. Their perceptions of these survivors have been very different to those being analysed on the various Fora.

For example:

They view Dawn as slightly close to the edge and very highly strung. (I call her awesome)

They see Jim as the next Penner, Cochrane as a poor man's Kenny and Sophie as the only person on Upolu who isn't annoying as hell.

It's interesting to say the least.

"RE: FYI re: Cochran & Jim's edits"
Posted by Flowerpower on 10-12-11 at 09:16 AM
I have to admit that I don't like Cochran much at this point because despite his editing, he's really shown me nothing. I'd say, so far his game has consisted of sheer luck.

Now Jim is a different being. He strikes me as a character, who is quite full of himself yet at the same time, I'd call him insecure. He came up with the 3 + 2 plan, on his own and presented it to Keith. Then, we see him coming up with the plot to take out Elyse and bust up the 90210 alliance, to which he was a member.

However, I found this to be quite interesting...there was a video, from the CBS website, along with other insider clips that had Jim talking about how wonderful he was to have the best partner with Elyse. She cuddles up to me at night, we spoon in the AM, not too shabby cuddling up with a Miss America runner up, etc, etc. I tried to go back and find it, but I couldn't?? He spoke about if something happened with the "5", then maybe he and Elyse would be good till the end....

Obviously, something went awry...Elyse obviously has rejected Jim and attached to Ozzy. Jim is threatened by Ozzy. He's been rejected by "the cool girl". This is what is motivating him to seek out Cochran and plan revenge on Elyse. Interesting that this was not shown in the show. It's a very shallow rationale, shows his insecurity, yet one that we can all relate to...somewhat. So the editing of the show is hiding his insecurity, yet, it was still placed in the insider clips. Things that are chopped from the show perhaps because of time, but yet they still want us to see it.

If Jim and Cochran's plan to chop Elyse comes to fruition, then most likely Elyse and Ozzy would want to naturally seek some type of revenge. Jim is placing a target on his back as long as Jim receives the credit for orchestrating the blindside.



"RE: FYI re: Cochran & Jim's edits"
Posted by Modesty on 10-12-11 at 09:34 AM
LAST EDITED ON 10-12-11 AT 09:34 AM (EST)

I agree Flower. Jim could have been made to look petty and foolish but they chose to make his decision, to want to boot Elyse, to be strategic and calculating. I'm not sure if that's because he's being carefully crafted to give his character audience appeal, or if it fits with the story they're trying to tell better.

For me I think he's being sculpted as a likeable villain - like a Penner or an early Mariano? If he were our winner I think they'd show him exactly the way they're doing, within the 42 minutes. For this reason he's high on my list of candidates.

As you say though, they're showing us another side on the insider which could have easily been left out. Would that do THAT if he were our winner? I'm not so sure. He has enough presence in the actual show that his character doesn't exactly need 'fleshing out'. The insertion of those insider videos raise questions for me.

"Listening to Cochran & Jim's edits"
Posted by michel on 10-12-11 at 06:52 PM
LAST EDITED ON 10-12-11 AT 06:55 PM (EST)

FP, if you ever find a youtube link to that Jim-Elyse clip, I'd love to see it.

What I did notice on watching the episode again was that the sound editors clearly favor Cochran.

Listen to Jim's key opening confessional: His words are accompanied by all sorts of noise, not really musical, more like the old Kooky theme that Applejack first noticed. We even hear the noise Jim makes while chopping a coconut.

Mikayla's "look who his uncle is" and Dawn's "I'm Rudy" confessionals are also edited with that kooky theme.

Cochran's confessional have practically no sound behind them. It is especially noticeable in his first one which comes right after Jim's. There is also a clarity in his voice that suggests we should think: This is important. His second, after returning from RI, even ends in a cymbal crash to underline its importance.

"RE: Listening to Cochran & Jim's edits"
Posted by Flowerpower on 10-12-11 at 07:54 PM
Nice comments, Modesty. Interesting, you note that Jim's edit is indeed being manipulated as well.

michel: Thanks for noting the musical editing...ah yes, I wonder how ole Applejack is doing? Sure would love to have him back! Great observations...I'm going to have to try and pay more attention this episode! Do you notice that any other daws have similar sounds as Cochran does, maybe over at Upolu?

We all know that they do like to show some vulnerability of their winners, show them in some kind of danger or something like this...you never know...I'd say Cochran looked very vulnerable, especially in the first episode. Jim having some kind of insecurity would certainly fit as well, but we are not seeing it in the show...

I will try and find the link to that clip.

"RE: Listening to Cochran & Jim's edits"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 10-15-11 at 11:16 PM
great catch on the clip about Jim. He did say, when they discussed her boot, something like what a shame, she's smoking hot. In the earlier ep he expressed how he likes being on the tribe with such hot girls.

Both hot girls had paired up by Ep 3, leaving him odd man out with no girl prospects.
May indeed have influenced him to go another direction.

"RE: FYI re: Cochran & Jim's edits"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 10-16-11 at 09:32 PM
I just looked through all the Insider transcripts by James Barber trying to find that one, but couldn't. They must have pulled it fast.

I did find this from Jim's intro Insider on his interest in finding a love connection:
"My relationship status - single. 100% single. Usually there's a level of dating somebody in there. But yeah, 100% single. I fit that prototype of been there, done that. I would trade the million if I could find a life partner through this. Not on this show, necessarily, but maybe afterwards."

So he wants "love" more than money ...
I agree he would feel reactive as you suggest when he was replaced by Ozzy.

"RE: FYI re: Cochran & Jim's edits"
Posted by OllieKat on 10-13-11 at 05:43 PM
>This is only anecdotal, but I
>always talk with my cousin
>(completely unspoiled "average" viewer of
>all Survivor seasons) to get
>a take on what people
>who don't obsess over the
>game like we do think
>& she & her husband
>can't stand either Jim or
>Cochran.


Any word from your "focus group" this week kiki? I was happy to see you post this 'cause I can't stand John but was assuming the average fan actually liked him. After last night I'm very close to preferring Brandon as a winner to John (and THAT's saying a whole lot).

"RE: FYI re: Cochran & Jim's edits"
Posted by SereSurvivor on 10-14-11 at 12:30 PM
Thank you, thank you. There is something slimey about Cochran. I want to like him as I usually like intelligent geeks, but he has too much ick factor. Gotta believe his edit would be making him more likable if he is the winner. I think he is being groomed as a future villain instead, tho maybe top 2 or 3 but not the winner.
"RE: FYI re: Cochran & Jim's edits"
Posted by dabo on 10-14-11 at 12:43 PM
Welcome aboard! Cochran is becoming a mix of lovable underdog and annoying whiner, if he lasts deep into the game (which is a good bet should he make the merge) maybe he'll grow some confidence, get better.
"RE: FYI re: Cochran & Jim's edits"
Posted by SereSurvivor on 10-14-11 at 12:51 PM
Good point, I have to remember the editors can "redeem" a character anytime they want to making him/her lovable! It is obvious they are making Cochran a player, so far. Noticed Coach is slipping a little and Ozzie is becoming the focus of the shows future "drama"
"RE: FYI re: Cochran & Jim's edits"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 10-15-11 at 11:22 PM
I seriously doubt they have any tricks in the edit bag that would cause me to like Cochran. I'm typically a huge fan of the intellectual player, but he's not intellectual the way Stephen or Rafe were. He's pure insecure and petty nerd who is obsessed with his own image, which is not likable. He has zero charisma.

It's like they harvested all of Rob Cesternino's most annoying attributes while omitting all the parts that made Rob cute and a likable underdog, and also omitted Rob's ability to break new ground with strategy, replacing that with a tendency to talk about how he would love to be a mastermind and make big moves ... thank you Jim for bringing a big move my way.

Cesternino made the moves; he didn't say where can i sign up to play sidekick and hopefully get all the credit for posterity.

"RE: FYI re: Cochran & Jim's edits"
Posted by michel on 10-16-11 at 01:47 AM
I haven't watched Guatemala in a while but, from what I remember, Rafe was a fairly invisible character in the first few episodes. It was really only after the merge that he stood out as an intellectual player.

As for Cesternino, I do remember that my only impression of him early was that he was a stupid, funny guy with a magic 8 ball and a burning desire to get in Heidi's pants instead of playing the game. It took a while for him to emerge as a great player. For me, it was the Deena vote that finally showed him as a smart player.


As for Stephen, I do see similarities with Cochran: Stephen admitted to stumbling ass-backwards into a good alliance, he was very negative towards Sydney and he really didn't break new grounds as far as strategy is concerned.


Thanks Agman!

"RE: FYI re: Cochran & Jim's edits"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 10-16-11 at 03:32 AM
Agree about Rafe. But I always knew he had the potential, so I included him in the list. He was a huge fan who had done substantial online Survivor game-playing.

Your memory of Rob C is essentially the same as mine. I would add to that the cool girls were "mean" to him in that they made it clear he wasn't in the league. Like Cochran, he barely escaped an early boot.

He also tried to sell himself as The Goat, but Jenna saw through that.

Stephen was my favorite in Tocantins, and I still follow Stephen's tweets and writing. He is not only super smart and literate but has great humor. Cochran's humor doesn't cut it for me. It's like he's supposed to be funny, but he isn't. He wants to be Woody Allen in his self-depracatory phase, but he doesn't come up with great lines.

Big difference from Stephen -- The Wizard never ran his mouth off and wandered into pits like the Herpes moment. He was cautious. And even though it was clear he was intelligent, he downplayed that and instead took on the poor city boy out of his element role without bragging about ivy league schooling.

Stephen did a great job of helping to get the Jalapao remnants out of a pagonging. He helped cement Erinn's move to get out Tyson. He built a relationship with Coach. He was never a target after the merge. He got JT, Taj, and himself to F4 without the three ever having to play the HII, which is amazing -- consider what Russell had to do with idols to keep Foa Foa in the game.

I know you were an Erinn fan and may not see it that way, but I really don't want to get in a Tocantins discussion, want to focus on this season.

My point was simply that Stephen was endearing and John isn't.

"RE: FYI re: Cochran & Jim's edits"
Posted by michel on 10-16-11 at 10:31 AM
I agree this isn't the place to discuss Tocantins but I want to explain how it relates to Cochran. His similarities with Stephen that I mentioned were only after the first 5 episodes of S18. At that point, we didn't know about any of Stephen's post-merge decisions or his post-game contributions. It takes time to create a good character.

Even without something like the herpes discussion, we were shown Stephen unable to make a fire while Sydney was very good at it, making Stephen jealous of the... how did he call her? The woodland goddess or something like that. In survivor editing, which is worse?

PS. As for Erinn, I wasn't a fan, I liked the fact that she was the Anti-warrior and I thought the story was going to make Coach look like a fool to the end. Big mistake!


"RE: FYI re: Cochran & Jim's edits"
Posted by kiki_k on 10-16-11 at 03:48 AM
Sorry OllieKat -- no info from my "focus group" (and, btw, LMAO at that one!) this week. Cousin's hubby was out of town for work & she was so busy between her job & having to take care of their two boys by herself that she DVR'd the episode to get to bed early last Wednesday & hasn't watched it. She might not even watch it as I gave her a little recap & just pick up with this week's episode. Like I said, they aren't "invested" in the show like we are. I should have some more to report next week.
"Episode 5 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by michel on 10-15-11 at 07:19 PM
The recap reminded us that this had been a see-saw battle between two of the most evenly matched tribes.
At Savaii, Ozzy found a hidden immunity idol and he thought he was in control of the dominant alliance but one of his allies, Jim, was plotting against him.
Jim teamed up with Cochran and Dawn to undermine Ozzy by targeting his closest confidant, Elyse.
<Cochran in confessional: “If Elyse goes, that buys me another three days.”>

In Upolu, Coach was safe in his alliance but not everyone was a Coach fan.
Stacey was on the chopping block so she looked in vain for the immunity idol.

At the challenge, Dawn, the oldest member of Savaii, proved that she was one of the strongest competitors.

Upolu went to Tribal Council where Brandon, the nephew of the notorious Russell Hantz, broke down.
Brandon was heard saying he would redeem the family name.
In the end, Stacey was voted out and she passed on a hug from Coach on her way to Redemption island.

The recap showed that not everything was going well for either of the returning players. At that point, there were only clouds gathering but, by the end of the episode, Ozzy would be struck by lightning. Both Jim and Cochran were given confessionals to explain the move so both got credit but Jim was only heard asking if he should make a move against his ally. It suggested that he was simply jealous of Ozzy’s power. For Cochran, we heard how that move would benefit him, giving him three more days. We have been told how important those three days can be.

While Coach ended this episode on a good note, can we assume he will also get a bad surprise soon? If we assume that Jeff is right and these tribes are evenly matched, we should expect Upolu to go to tribal Council next.

This episode was all about:

Ups and Downs

Redemption Island

Stacey woke Christine and told her that Coach was running Upolu.

Stacey: “Tribal was so fake. It isn’t one big happy family on the blue tribe. Coach…he is nothing but a joke.”

Upolu – Day 12

It was morning, violins were playing a very dramatic melody while Brandon went to wake his tribe because tree mail had arrived.

Brandon: “Tribal Council was very emotional. The way Mikayla answered Jeff’s question when he asked what she didn’t like about me the most, She said: “I don’t like that he is a Hantz.” It was pretty prejudiced. The way she handled that showed that she had very little class at the time.” From a voice-over, the confessional continued with Brandon on screen, tears in his eyes: “These are real people; they have feelings, you know. I don’t care what people think about me, it doesn’t matter. I’m a good guy. If I can’t win the game like that then I don’t need to win.”

The destruction of Mikayla’s character has begun in earnest. Hating someone for who they are is, by definition, prejudice. Forgotten is Brandon’s own immediate attacks on Mikayla. Those aren’t part of the story anymore because now is the time to start redeeming the Hantz family name.
(Can I say that I hate this storyline?)

Coach: “Today, Christine and Stacey are battling it out and the other tribe could get intel from us. That’s what is I’m most afraid of today. I’m hoping that when Albert comes back with Mikayla, he says that Stacey and Christine kept their mouth shut.”

Coach really underestimated Stacey’s anger!

The Duel

Whitney and Dawn were the spectators from Savaii.
Dawn was shocked to see that the woman that had gone up against her in the previous immunity challenge had been voted out. Whitney wasn’t.

Stacey told the red team to be careful with them – The Upolus – because they were liars. Note that Mikayla was shown on screen as we heard those words and she didn’t protest. Stacey added that it wasn’t a team but really only Benjamin, Albert and Sophie. Jeff didn’t seem sure who Benjamin was so he had to ask if they meant Coach! Stacey and Christine were calling him Benjamin whether he liked it or not! Dawn and Whitney found that funny but Mikayla and Albert frowned. After the rant, we saw Albert whispering: “Sour grapes.”

The players’ reactions seemed to favor Christine and the camera showed us some close-calls on her side while Stacey looked unshakeable even if she wasn’t thinking of the space between the balls. It’s a good sign for Christine that the audience is encouraged to pull for her.
In the end, as Stacey was departing, we heard Mikayla telling Albert not to say anything.

Is Mikayla unaware that Stacey’s words were true? It would have been beneficial to her if Stacey’s rant had caused fractures in the tribe, so it seems it would have been better to encourage a fight. Stacey did say that Mikayla and Albert were working together so maybe even Mikayla believes that. We will shortly see that Albert is in fact with Coach and Sophie. So, he seems to have fooled both Stacey and Mikayla.

Christine left with a “I hope to see you soon” addressed to Savaii.

Albert: “Benjamin is doing everything, Albert is his right-hand man. Those are the things I was hoping we were going to be able to keep under the radar pretty well so it pissed me off because it made us look bad in front of the other tribe and I know Coach is going to be pissed.”

Not a very positive confessional for the first one of the season. At least Albert got one before Whitney! It tied him to Coach even more closely than we had been led to believe up to now.

Upolu

Immediately, Albert told Coach: “It was bad, dude.”

When Albert reported Stacey’s words that Coach, Sophie and he were running the tribe, the camera showed Mikayla vehemently shaking her head and frowning to indicate that the very thought was foolish.


We are definitely being shown that Mikayla has no grasp of what is going on around her.

Coach was furious when he heard he was being called Benjamin saying that even his parents call him Coach.

Now that is the definition of arrogance. Even Jimmy Johnson didn’t ask to be called Coach and who is the real Coach between those two?!

Benji: “Stacey went on a rant saying that Coach was running the show. So, if it comes to the merge, I am probably going to be hit number one. It just ruined my day, it sucks. Could this day get any worse?”

Savaii

Elyse in confessional after we saw her resting in the shelter with Ozzy: “The alliance with me, Ozzy, Keith, Jim and Whitney is still pretty strong. We didn’t even have to talk about the next vote and what it will come down to at the next tribal council which is Great! - if you are one of us. Then there is Ozzy and myself. I just follow his lead and I believe he will take me far in this game. We see the game the same way, we feel the same way about the alliance, about the merge, about making it far. We’re pals.”

Wasn’t that an interesting choice of words from Ozzy, calling Elyse his “little omen”. Granted, omen isn’t negative in itself but it is more often used to foretell negative changes. Considering what happened to Ozzy’s “little omen”, it certainly isn’t a good sign that we heard he was playing the same way that Elyse was. Ozzy, once more, is shown not putting enough effort in the game. That is a bad omen for his future.

One person that was putting the effort was Cochran. The two pals mocked him as he approached with firewood. Ozzy even asked how Cochran was spelled. Cochran replied: “You are not going to have to spell it any time soon, man.”

Closed-captioned, those words sounded like another kind of omen; Ozzy could have to remember how to spell Cochran 25 days later, during the final vote. I found it interesting that, while Upolu’s scene started with the arrival of the duel spectators, the editors thought of showing us a bit of what Cochran was doing and thinking even before Dawn and Whitney returned.

Cochran: “I work my ##### off around camp even if I am not a big provider like Ozzy…And then to see Ozzy and Elyse sleeping all day. They are still wrapped in their love blanket well into the late morning, I find every little thing about them irritating now.”

Just then, Dawn and Whutney arrived with the news that Upolu wasn’t going after the weak players but were actually Team-Coach.
Ozzy seemed pleased to hear that. He blurted: “If Coach is smart, he will get rid of Albert soon.”
That surprised Jim.

Jim: “Ozzy made one big mistake: He revealed that, if he were Coach, he would get rid of Albert. That’s huge information because, if Ozzy is saying that Coach should get rid of one of the stronger people on his tribe that’s saying Ozzy should get rid of one strong person on this tribe. The two strong people are me and Keith. Once I heard that, I knew what I had: Nothing sells like fear. I am going to put that fear in Keith, tell him to get Elyse gone next.”

The two after duel scenes paralleled each other in that it made the “legendary” players look foolish. While Upolu’s scene was merely about drama, Savaii’s scene was much more strategic. We do have to consider that the vote had to be set-up but that set-up had begun in the previous episode. This forces me to consider Jim as more of an important character. Last episode, he looked like an eager kid, wanting to pull a big survivor move but this week showed him in a more flattering light: The poker player read the mistakes of his rivals and knew how to use them. The problem with Jim’s scene however was in the way it ended: Elyse was shown sitting and he was shown standing above her, an evil grin on his face, the vulture hovering its prey. I still expect Jim to be portrayed as the scheming villain before this is done.

Upolu

Albert: “The duel was definitely painful to hear some of the things that were said. Not painful personally but painful towards my cause. Despite how Stacey isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed, she said that me and Coach were running things so I am going to have a target on my back after the merge. That clue is still out there and that idol is still out there. I need to find it now.” Even if he was able to find the clue quickly, Albert didn’t find the idol. His confessional continued: “I figured I could kill two birds with one stone: I could further garnish Sophie and Coach’s trust by letting them in on this idol and I can also get them to be helpers for me to find that idol because, frankly, I don’t think I can do this by myself.”

Coach: “Albert…didn’t want to tell the whole alliance and so only the three of us know about the clue: Albert, Sophie and I. It’s going to be our little secret. If you want a job done right, you got to do it yourself so I told myself that I had to take this in my own hands.” After praying for divine intervention, Coach found it: “Coach Wade has found the immunity idol. Look what we have here: A little gem for Coach to hold on to. Are the stars aligned for Coach or what? This is the most exciting moment in 67 days for Coach playing this game. This morning, I thought to myself: Could this day get any worse? But now Coach is a happy man, things couldn’t get any better. I have to get a hold of myself and say: “Dragon, get back in there. I can’t get too crazy, I am not running the show but, at the moment? Pretty close!”

He showed the idol to Albert and Sophie.

What I found most interesting in Coach’s search was its very beginning where we were shown him stumbling over a root. I think that, even with the idol, this was telling us that he will stumble in the game.

Savaii – Day 14

Cochran as he was preparing to go fishing with Ozzy, had an interview: “I don’t have any outdoorsy skills but I figure I got to step up…I want to see this as a bonding experience where I am not seen as one of the girls that hang out around camp while the true men are out fishing.”

We then had an extended scene of Ozzy’s underwater exploits. Maybe it was just to show the beauty of the sea, maybe they had extra time to fill but it sure looked like an hommage to Ozzy, showing us one last time that he was, in the eyes of many viewers, one of the greats of this series. He was good at certain things but certainly not at reading people as his confessional showed:

Ozzy: “I think my reputation in Survivor has been that I am the guy that can go out and hunt fish…But fishing isn’t easy…I’m totally happy to play the provider role and I think it’s going to put me in a stronger position than anyone else. I feel that they are truly becoming my tribe.”

Cochran: “Having watched Cook Islands and Fans versus Favorites, Ozzy is a superhuman, mogli-esque guy that can do no wrong but Ozzy has kind of faded into the middle-age Ozzy that has a few moments of glory each day where he runs and gets us some fish but otherwise, he is kind of a lazy ##### becoming the arrogant fisher-boy, jungle-boy who feels he can do no wrong and is entitled to our deference. The more he acts like this, it’s going to come and bite him in the #####.”

Cochran’s detractors are going to jump on this confessional and say that he is portrayed too negatively for people to like him and therefore he cannot win. To that, I look back on how many winners had very negative confessionals or how many fans some villains had over the years. The editors know that the viewers of this show like a little snark in their players and, as long as the camera agrees with the statements, it isn’t really “too negative”. Can anyone argue with this?


The Challenge

Jeff noted that Dawn showed teamwork when she pulled a piece of meat from Keith’s mouth.
“Ozzy is getting in there, trying to go deep…”
I noted that, with a challenge won by only 2 ounces, Mikayla picking up the piece that had fallen out of Rick’s mouth could have been the difference. Unfortunately, Mikayla didn’t get any recognition from her tribe and we heard Jeff saying that it showed she had no pride. With the editors usually splicing words together, there had to be a way to give a more positive spin to that effort if we were meant to like Mikayla.

Upolu – Day 14

Brandon was preparing the meal.
Edna observed with a smile: “He is all business, look at him.”

Brandon: “Watching my dad and my mom cook, my grandma and a bunch of cajuns, they just cook, cook cook. There are a lot of ups and downs in the game of Survivor but I think that today was more of a positive energy. I believe we are a team and we are a family.”

This scene showed that Upolu, to a certain point, liked Brandon. (I guess it’s easier when you haven’t seen the edited version of the show.) It also showed how important it is for his mood to have positive energy around. Nothing spoils that energy more than a loss so we have to be prepared for his next explosion.

Coach: “Aaaah! This is the taste of victory! The best thing of today’s challenge is that, beep-beep, we are back in the driver’s seat, baby! We own it now.”

The words: “Do not sell the skin of the dragon before you have killed it” came to mind

Savaii

Dawn was complaining of a broken molar, Jim of the randomness of the challenge while Ozzy and Elyse talked about cuts on their lips.
That’s when Cochran interjected that they could all have oral herpes.
That startled the group. Elyse wondered if he was saying he had given them herpes.
Cochran replied that he thought he had gotten it from one of them.

This uncomfortable conversation reminded me of Peter Harkey in Marquesas. He certainly wasn’t a winner!

He then went to open a coconut which led to Elyse’s remark to Whitney: “He’s trying so hard.”

Ozzy shown resting in the shelter, had a confessional: “As soon as we got back from the challenge, Cochran made it a point of putting on a display of working. He worked harder than I have seen him work this whole time. It sucks because it is a little too late. I think everyone on the tribe feels he is the weakest link and I think everyone feels good about letting him go tonight.”

Dawn: “Ozzy is pretty clear that he wants Cochran gone but, in my opinion, it’s time to break up that alliance with Ozzy and Elyse.”

Jim: “I feel that I have Cochran and Dawn but in a tribe of seven, you need four. I got to find that fourth vote to get Elyse out.” Jim went to Keith and told him about Ozzy’s remark. Keith agreed they needed to get Elyse so Jim’s confessional continued: “Keith and I got on the same page in about 30 seconds so it looks pretty strong that Elyse is going to go next.”

Jim told Keith that they wouldn’t tell Ozzy. The zinging sound effect and Keith’s expression told us that Keith wasn’t ready to get on that page.
I think this tells us that this decision will not turn out well for Keith. Maybe he will receive an idol bounce.

Keith: “Tonight’s vote is suppose to go Cochran, Jim and Dawn and they vote Elyse. Ozzy and Elyse are going to vote for Cochran so that leaves me and Whitney with a little room to play. The first alliance that I made was me and Ozzy so tonight’s vote is going to be scary because if Elyse gets blindsided, in a sense, Ozzy gets blindsided. So, how is Ozzy going to trust me when he thinks we are all voting for Cochran? That’s the question that I have to figure out.”

Whitney: “Elyse and Ozzy are like this. I don’t think Ozzy is going to like it if we vote her off so there goes our alliance. Keith and I are still trying to figure out how we can weasel our way around this and still come out with our alliance with Ozzy. It’s hard. I wish we could let those three vote Elyse and us two vote not Cochran, just someone else.”

Weasels rarely wind up in a good position in this game and aren’t appreciated by fans. This being Whitney’s first confessional of the season, she is receiving a harsh treatment. The editors really don’t want us to connect with the country singer.

Cochran after Jim assured him that Elyse was going: “For the first time, I am not feeling that bad about my chances going into tonight’s Tribal. Worse case scenarion, I get sent to Redemption Island but I really don’t want to get sent to Redemption Island. I don’t care if Ozzy thinks that we are all against him, we ARE all against him and we will vote him out next time. He’s going to hate me more after I vote out his hammock sweetheart which is what I hope happens tonight.”

Tribal Council

Jeff asked Ozzy about the state of the game after 14 days.
Ozzy said that the merge was still too far off so it was still a question of keeping the tribe strong.
Elyse said: “A strong player is someone who is strong across the board.”
Jeff wanted to know if Cochran was expecting more votes.
Cochran answered: “The novelty of attending Tribal Council as long worn off for me and seeing my name come up twice is alarming. I hope it isn’t three times in a row.”
Jim noted that everyone gave 100% in the challenge.
The tribe members told Jeff about their injuries, Cochran joking about his retainer and how his teeth were shifting. He then grimaced to show Jeff.
Jeff asked Dawn if Cochran was charming or if he was annoying.
Dawn: “I think Cochran is endearing, he is a little bit of a character to me. I think this is a game of bringing together people that would never be together. So, a part of me is learning to really be tolerant.” She then mentioned the herpes talk. She concluded: “I don’t know where he gets that. It was hilarious but not.”
Jeff noted that everone else was laughing except Keith.
Keith explained: “It was nasty…The intention was to make everyone laugh but I think that, in the end, it grossed everyone out.”
Cochran felt the heat, saying he would obsess about what was said later on that night, “if there is a tonight.”
Elyse sympathized with Cochran. “We’ve all been picked last for soccer.”
Cochran replied: “I don’t put myself in a position where I am playing soccer but all the neuroses and self-deprecation aside, I think I get along well with people. I may have certain quirks that people find annoying but people, or a good number of people do take to me.”
Elyse said: “Whether he stays or goes to Redemption Island, he will appreciate the experience.” (will she?!)
Jim said that all votes have a personal aspect to them.

As the players cast their votes, the camera focused often on the troubled faces of Keith and Whitney.

We saw Ozzy’s puzzled face when the second vote against Elyse came out. When the votes against Dawn came up we saw, in order, her shock, Whitney’s smile, Keith’s blank expression, Cochran’s questioning stare and Jim’s face as it must be when he is all in and the river card is about to get shown. Then, we saw Ozzy’s head sink as the last vote was read. Cochran’s expression, even if this had to taste like a victory, didn’t change.

Jeff said: “Judging by the look on Elyse’s face, I’d say this was your first blindside and this game just took a big turn.”

The Story

Comparing the tribes, Upolu is definitely the Soap Opera tribe. Their actions and decisions center around the drama that grips them. Savaii is the Survivor tribe, the one where players are shown working on survival and thinking about their position down the road. As such, despite being down one member, I believe Savaii will come out on top. There are no indications that there could be a cross-tribal alliance that would prevent a pagonging if not for a possible connection between Coach and Ozzy. However, since those two players are portrayed as losing their hold on their tribes, I expect both will come together at Redemption Island, not as part of a new, dominating alliance.

With Jim, Ozzy and Keith all portrayed as leader-types, the stage is truly set for a follower to win this season and, despite some manipulations indicating that he is a mastermind, Cochran is definitely portrayed as a follower. It seems that the whole story of the season was told during this Tribal Council. Jeff asked the question that the jury will debate: Is Cochran charming or annoying? Dawn had all the characteristics of a juror, telling us that, despite everything, Cochran was someone that would receive her vote. Keith will not vote for him. Those are the two votes that are “revealed”!

The Characters

Christine and Elyse: The residents of Redemption Island are getting close to the merge so, if this works like last season, one of them has a good shot of returning to the game. Of the two, Christine has more hooks for a future storyline. Once more, we heard her talk to the Red team as if she was part of them already. In a season where both teams are evenly matched, her vote could be crucial.
Elyse was Ozzy’s sweetheart and that is over.

The Failed Tribe:

Rick: We now know that he isn’t part of the inner core.

Edna: She had been the alternative vote in the previous Tribal Council but her thoughts and reactions weren’t heard. Ultimately, this confirms that, overall, Edna isn’t key to the story. She is an interesting person that gets to talk only when the story comes in her direction.

Albert: His story finally started but it was only so that he could tell us that events were hurting his cause. Just as he feared, I expect him to be the first casualty after the merge.

Sophie: After a start that kept a bit of mystery regarding her future chances, this episode stopped any build-up we could have imagined. She was called out just like Albert and Coach as one of the players running the show, she was part of the search for the idol but we weren’t privvy to any of her thoughts or reactions. If she had the winning story this would have been a critical episode so her role would have stood out.

Mikayla: Despite being at the center of the early drama in this episode, Mikayla wasn’t given a confessional. Worse, she was repeatedly shown as being unaware of the true politics in her group. She doesn’t seem aware that she isn’t in the alliance. Her story truly ended when Brandon apologized so it is only a matter of time before she exits.

Brandon: From drama-queen, Brandon became the appreciated cook of the tribe. It does connect to his earlier confessional about wanting to be the tribe’s provider so, even if we don’t see this tribe at work, we have to assume that Brandon is useful in camp. His moods swing wildly depending on the energy around him so it will be interesting to see how he reacts when he learns about some of the secrets that have been kept from him.

Coach: Now that Benji has an idol in his pocket, I am interested to see how he manages to stumble in the game. As I said last week, I expect Coach to fall because of Brandon’s honesty. He did announce that his fate in the game depended on Hantz when he learned his identity.

The Survivor Tribe
Whitney: The first we heard from her told us that she was indecisive and planned on weaseling her way out of a tough situation. The editors haven’t been kind to Whitney and one possible explanation is that we will see her sitting in the final 3 where she would lose the vote.

Keith: His hesitation when Jim suggested they shouldn’t tell Ozzy and his concerns about keeping Ozzy’s trust tells me that he will bear the brunt of jungle-boy’s wrath.

Ozzy: We had seen the arrogance already but showing us the middle-aged Ozzy was new. As the images had shown last week, Ozzy was caught with his pants down but targeting Ozzy’s sweetheart instead of him directly means he will not be voted out with the idol in pocket. We have been shown the hommage that Survivor owed Ozzy so, even with a reprieve, he doesn’t have much time left in the game. The repeated scenes of him just relaxing in the shelter told it all.

Dawn: After such a great episode, one cannot draw conclusions from this relatively quiet one except for its content. Her role was concentrated on her interventions during Tribal Council and that was all about her appreciation of Cochran. Although positive, she did parallel most of the comments the viewers must have about the Harvard student. She will most likely sit on the jury and will be the audience’s barometer, probably being the deciding vote in his favor.

Jim: Jim’s story has enough substance to make us consider his three possible outcomes:
- He will be voted out before the end
- He will lose during the final vote
- He will win the vote

If Jim were to be eliminated early then there would have been no reason to make this schemer look as good as we are being shown. Yes, we heard he was sketchy and that he was playing too hard but still, the overall impression as to be that he is playing well. However, if he were to win the vote, there would have been no need to prop up Cochran, making the nerd share the credit with the poker player. With the first big move under his belt, Jim could now start receiving the negativity. Certainly, Ozzy’s anger will not be directed towards Cochran since he was being targeted so, while Keith’s betrayal was the deepest, Jim’s actions certainly hurt the returning player. Ozzy will have some strong words agains thim, no doubt, so the audience will start to understand why Jim will lose the final vote.

Cochran: This interpretation of the story leads us right back to Cochran. It was particularly telling that this latest Tribal Council centered on the definition of a strong player and on Cochran’s likability. Those are the questions, the doubts, that will surround his selection as Sole Survivor. We have seen him stepping up and improving his work around camp. He is even going out fishing so we are starting to see him as, if not a worthy, at least a capable Survivor. In contrast, I find it interesting that we have seen Jim drinking out of a coconut but never working to open one. I’d have to look back but I don’t think Jim has been shown doing much work at all.

In a tribe full of Type A personalities as Papa Bear told us, it’s important that Cochran is portrayed as a follower but not just any follower; we have seen the strategy often presented from his point of view. So, even if he reminded me of Peter Harkey, even if his edit contains some negativity, I still see Cochran as this season’s Sole Survivor.


"RE: Episode 5 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 10-16-11 at 00:20 AM
michel,
I really liked your title of "ups and downs."

Could have been a Winnie the Pooh story:

"In which Coach has a horrid morning but all is well when he finds a new toy in the Hundred Acre Wood."

Or

"in which Piglet makes a Very Big Move, with a help from Kanga and Roo, and Tigger's Best Girl gets Bounced."

"RE: Episode 5 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 10-16-11 at 00:34 AM
As always, it's hard to make a short reply to a long, thoughtful analysis.
There is much here that I liked. New thoughts included how you picked up on Mikayla being out of the "Coach is running things" loop. I only saw it as her being bummed at Stacey. I agree with your take.

>>> What I found most interesting in Coach’s search was its very beginning where we were shown him stumbling over a root. I think that, even with the idol, this was telling us that he will stumble in the game.

well, he may certainly stumble. However, Coach has a certain Joseph Campbell approach to life, it is all a Quest to him. The Hero's Journey is always going to contain stumbles and setbacks; that is how Quest narrative genre goes. So if Coach does manage to pull it out -- and I'm not saying he does as I have no idea -- I think a stumble would be fitting and not necessarily a foreshadowing of failure.

Re the negative edit:
I am not in the camp that has convictions that winners are not shown negatively, so that doesn't really concern me.

Re Whitney:
yes, her edit is harsh, I think that our sympathies for Savai'i females are supposed to go to Dawn, not the young pretty girls.

I totally agree with your assessment of Ozzy, and I think I posted right away after the episode that the fishing segment was a clear "farewell to the master" homage.

Re Dawn:
>>> Her role was concentrated on her interventions during Tribal Council and that was all about her appreciation of Cochran.

I would disagree there. She is a professor, Cochran is a student. I think that her greater maturity was highlighted. She did not speak to give him "appreciation." She gave him an instructorlike assessment of his strengths and weaknesses. She said he has his endearing side and his flaws, and that his flaws don't thoroughly outweigh his strong points.

Having been an instructor myself, I know that is not a high assessment. It's actually a really bad assessment. If he were a top student, it would have been much better. This had the ring of "I'll throw in something positive because I don't want to crush the poor kid even though he is pretty much failing the course."

"RE: Episode 5 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by michel on 10-16-11 at 01:31 AM
Thank you, OFG, I always appreciate feedback.

As for Dawn's appreciation, I meant it more neutrally than you took it. Appreciation as in analysis. She expressed both compliments and reproaches but, in what looked like a Final TC rehearsal, it certainly seemed that she would vote for Cochran. I hope that clarifies my comment.

There is a "I don't like Cochran so I doubt he's edited as winner" current in the thread so I wanted to address that issue. Like you, I remember many winners that weren't really likable.

Thank you for introducing me to Joseph Campbell. Coach's stumble reminded me of Kenny tripping while he was flirting with Michelle. It's a less educated comparison but the scene was a very short one. I think it's safe to assume that the editors had slapstick in mind instead of Campbell.


Thanks Agman!

"RE: Episode 5 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 10-16-11 at 03:17 AM
You are typically way ahead of me in thinking about the winner, michel, and I appreciate all these things you notice.

I only watch the episodes once, and I admit don't watch them looking for the ultimate winner. I do think about the episodes more afterwards.

Some seasons the winner leaps out at me, but this isn't one of them.

I see what you mean about the rehearsal for a final TC. Jeff has been very aggressive in soliciting the other Savai'i to give an analysis of Cochran. It is bizarre really. I don't know whether he does it to others and the editors pick Cochran because he is the winner, or whether Jeff is trying to save Cochran by giving him a chance to talk his way out of the hole.

Yes, I understand that Dawn could be considered a potential vote for Cochran in that she was cast in that role at TC.

I have this feeling that the F3 for this season could be mixed tribes. I tried to think if that had ever happened in a season with no swap (a swap muddies the tribal identification so I don't count those). HvV was the only one But they all knew each other going in, so that's not a pure example.

It would be sort of a first.
Anyway, I get a F3 sort of vibe from Brandon, Dawn, Cochran, Coach as far as visible F3 folks go -- and from Sophie or Whitney as an invisible type F3 who gets no votes.

I'm sure I didn't introduce you to Joseph Campbell. When I write these things and go into areas like that, I know some people reading already know all about it, but some people might not, so I write it out -- because I don't like it when people talk about something as if everyone knows it. (For example, I never read the Nash theory or the Art of War, so I appreciate it when someone includes the Cliff Notes when they mention them).

You were taking a literal stumble and looking at it symbolically, so my comment is that a good Coach edit that is in line with his persona might decide to throw in literal stumbling blocks to have fun with the Hero's quest. Not being a Survivor editor, I really don't know what they're thinking.

"RE: Episode 5 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by michel on 10-16-11 at 10:59 AM
LAST EDITED ON 10-16-11 AT 12:08 PM (EST)

A Finale with players from mixed tribes in seasons without a swap is rare indeed. Pearl island with Sandra and Lil is the only one. (Although Stephen did want to go to the F2 with Erinn!)

Redemption Island and the F3 both favor pagonging (2 players from one tribe could split the vote leaving the win to the loner)

This season, I don't expect a cross-tribal alliance because there has been absolutely no interaction between spectators like we had seen with Stephanie, Krista and Rob last time. Certainly, something would have been set in motion, no? Maybe the final RI returnee forces his way to the end by winning a few immunities. Or Christine really becomes a Savaii.

ETA: I had never heard of Campbell before and I found it interesting to read about him.

"RE: Episode 5 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 10-16-11 at 08:11 PM
LAST EDITED ON 10-16-11 AT 08:20 PM (EST)

You are absolutely correct, michel -- we see no promise of cross-tribal connections as we were teased with last season. This makes me realize though that none of the connections last season materialized into anything of substance.

I hold out hope of a non-Pagonging mainly because CBS is billing this as the wildest Survivor ever ... now we all agree that SeeBS is mostly BS, but it often has a kernel of substance, and a pagonging doesn't make for a wild season. So I hope.

Joseph Campbell -- my bad.
His "Hero With a Thousand Faces" was very popular when it came out. Although every academic mythologist or psychoanalyst I have known denigrates his work for reasons I won't go into -- his structural model has worked its way into Screenplay theory and story arcs. So knowing Campbell is going to give you insight into Hollywood story arcs.

If you are interested, run a search on Joseph Campbell + screenplay (I also used keywords quest + plot). Here (linked below quote) is one hit of many that talks about the "Monomyth" character arc and how it has been imposed on the standard three act screenplay.

Stages after crossing the threshold, beginning with the stage of Tests, Allies, Enemies is what I was thinking of in a loose sense when I thought about Coach stumbling. Keep in mind that the Campbell structure wasn't fresh in my mind, more something I had read about in the past.

6. Tests, Allies, Enemies

Now finally out of his comfort zone the Hero is confronted with an ever more difficult series of challenges that test him in a variety of ways. Obstacles are thrown across his path; whether they be physical hurdles or people bent on thwarting his progress, the Hero must overcome each challenge he is presented with on the journey towards his ultimate goal.

The Hero needs to find out who can be trusted and who can't. He may earn allies and meet enemies who will, each in their own way, help prepare him for the greater ordeals yet to come. This is the stage where his skills and/or powers are tested and every obstacle that he faces helps us gain a deeper insight into his character and ultimately identify with him even more.

http://www.movieoutline.com/articles/the-hero-journey-mythic-structure-of-joseph-campbell-monomyth.html

I believe it is well understood that George Lucas (or his wife) borrowed heavily from Campbell's ideas when he wrote Star Wars.
ETA a link that talks about that:
http://moongadget.com/origins/myth.html

"RE: Episode 5 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by michel on 10-16-11 at 09:12 PM
LAST EDITED ON 10-16-11 AT 09:31 PM (EST)

Thank you for the information. I am French and I grew up reading mostly French authors. Especially when it came to philosophy and history.

Last season we did have teasers that never materialized so I have to wonder if something would materialize without any teasers. Survivor has always given us hints so that's why I am not thinking in terms of cross-tribal alliances. I don't like to use promos. Too much BS as you said. In fact, the recaps are my tools of predilection!


The question about Coach's edit becomes: Is he a hero or a zero? Showing us the "Even my parents call me Coach" scene makes me believe he is becoming a zero. However, Coach has been a blindspot for me once before so who knows?

You know, that stumble could also mean nothing.

"RE: Episode 5 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by kiki_k on 10-16-11 at 11:53 PM
You know, that stumble could also mean nothing.

Ha, ha! I just finished reading your & OFG's interesting discussion & was thinking the same thing. I remember last season much was made of Rob not winning the "day of luxury" game & saying "I almost won it but I waited til the last minute" (or something). So, best not to read *too* much into Benjamin's stumble.

"RE: Episode 5 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by michel on 10-17-11 at 10:14 AM
Do you know what was most interesting about the "Royal Treatment" scene? Many people used it to say that I was dead wrong in picking Rob as winner, that the scene was a clear indication that he would lose in the end.

This is what I had written:
Now, the results of the Royal Treatment game will surely give pause to many editing analysts. Rob was said to have blown it and we saw Andrea raising her arms in victory. So is she going to sneak in at the last minute and seize victory from the two big guys?
I think that we, as viewers, weren’t supposed to take that game seriously: It didn’t matter that Rob came short because we never even heard who actually won. Rob isn’t playing to win a royal treatment or even playing for Ometepe. He is playing to win the game and every episode shows that he is raising his game."

"RE: Episode 5 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by kiki_k on 10-17-11 at 01:58 PM
Oh, I 100% remember you were right about it; I was referring to the brouhaha by many, many others who used that scene to say you were wrong. That's is exactly what I meant about the danger of giving too much credence to the stumble.
"RE: Episode 5 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 10-17-11 at 01:33 AM
>>> You know, that stumble could also mean nothing.

but of course!

My larger point was that stumbles and even bumbles along the way are a part of the quest. On all levels.

"RE: Episode 5 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 10-17-11 at 01:49 AM
oh, and thanks for sharing about your reading background. Well, I wish I could say I were well read in French history and philosophy.

OT for a second, who would you say are your main influences/interests?

"RE: Episode 5 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by michel on 10-17-11 at 01:48 PM
Jules Verne and Alexandre Dumas were my favorite classics. As for philosophy, we must have read the same authors in different translations. Sartre and Rousseau were probably more discussed in my neck of the woods than in yours.

As for stories, I'd say my early influences were Hergé, Henri Vernes, Georges Simenon and Frédéric Dard!!

The French author that comes to mind after reading on Campbell is Claude Lévi-Strauss. His work really impressed me. He also wrote about myths and structures. Some have said that he influenced the way every author now writes a story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_L%C3%A9vi-Strauss

"RE: Episode 5 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 10-17-11 at 07:20 PM
Ah, we have some favorites in common!

I was all over Verne and Dumas as a kid and throughout my life I continue to read Dumas over and over -- in translation. Liked The Dumas Club novel too.

In college I was an English major, but my specialty was mythology, folklore, and epic. I took folklore from Alan Dundes and I did read Levi-Strauss. Another interesting structuralist is Vladimir Propp (Russian), who laid out a theory of plot structure in fairy tale and folklore.

Another sub-specialty I was into in grad school was the Romantic Poets and the French Revolution, and for that we began by reading Rousseau. Sad that I never read Rousseau until that late in life.

As a Joycean I read the odd philosophy of Giambattista Vico, whose thinking influenced Rousseau (and Joyce used Vico to write Finnegans Wake).

I have always been fascinated by tales of the French Revolution.
Sartre I read at some point, but am no master.
In grad school read Derrida, Foucault, Barthes, Lacan ... thick stuff Lacan.

I wish I had read more French literature. I have read Hugo and Flaubert, Camus, some Moliere, some Baudelaire, but I never did read Proust, although it is one of my father's favorites and I should have ...

thanks for sharing, michel.

"RE: Episode 5 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by Dangerous on 10-18-11 at 04:17 PM
I’ve been rather busy this week so will confine myself to a few comments rather than a full recap.

To review, my summary of the key themes to this season was that negative first impressions/a rocky start can be overcome through:

a) Stepping up when it counts and putting the effort in
b) Building relationships with loyal people and sticking to them (a good social game)

Last week we saw the themes of unity and loyalty explored. This week there seemed to be an emphasis on ”strength”, as first referenced by Dawn’s comments to Stacey at Redemption Island: ”Good job Stacey, good job….strong woman” and afterwards to her tribe ”I really thought they’d vote for weak, but they’re going for Team Coach”

Stacey’s portrayal at Redemption Island is interesting. Although shown as foolish in the challenge I get the sense that we are meant to view the elimination of this strong woman as a mistake for the Upolu tribe. This gives further weight to Stacey’s negative characterization of Coach (and by extension Upolu) as a dysfunctional family led by a “holier-than-thou” joke. Problematic for the Upolu alliance’s longevity in the game.

Ozzie’s faux pas with regard to his comment about voting out Albert, and the ensuing focus by Jim on the possibility of the strongest tribe members being voted out in future also touches on the theme of strength and its different meaning to different people.

We see strength explored further by Elyse (ironically) at Tribal Council: ”A strong tribe member is someone who is strong across the board….somebody who can deliver what’s expected in challenges, somebody who can contribute around camp life, somebody who has got social graces that can help unify people, keeping the group together”

An interesting definition of strength that encompasses stepping up as well as the theme of unity (explored in the last episode). I believe that this is a description of our winner, ironically coming from the contestant voted out. Despite a rocky start, our winner will come to exemplify strength as defined by Elyse. This strength will include stepping up at challenges and around camp, and involve a good social game that unifies people. Our winner may not possess all of these attributes at present, but in my view, through a process of learning, will grow into these qualities by the end of the game.

We segue into the sub-theme of ”stepping up” (closely correlated to strength in Elyse’s definition), presented by the editors to us via Cochran.

Cochran: ”I’m the little engine that could……I’m working hard every day….and then to see Ozzie and Elyse sleeping every day…..” and again:”I don’t have any outdoorsy skills but I figure I gotta step up”

Last week I put my stake in the ground and backed Dawn for the win. Despite a low-key episode she receives some strategic focus. Interestingly, the camera focus on her nodding and rapt attention, as Stacey conveys important information about Upolu tribal dynamics, presents somebody who is filing that information away for future use in the game. At Tribal Council, we have an illuminating comment that ties in with Elyse’s definition of a winner having good social graces and a unifying impact: ”This is also a game about bringing people together that would never be together. Part of me is learning to be really tolerant.” Dawn remains on track for a season ending finale as Sole Survivor.

In my view there is only one other contender that can wrest the title from Dawn, and that is Cochran. He had a very good episode. With numerous quotes linking him to the theme of ”stepping up” he is showing that he is learning from this Survivor experience, working harder and becoming more of a contributor around camp. One area where there is room for improvement is in the area of social graces – he has not been shown to unify the group, particularly in this episode. However, this is not a death knell for his chances. If he can overcome this rocky start, adapt his behavior and learn from his mistakes he stands a solid shot of being there at the end. In order for Cochran to win, however, he needs to demonstrate greater social awareness as well as some level of ”grit” in the challenges. There is still plenty of time.

Either Dawn or Cochran will win Survivor South Pacific. The other will be shown to have what is commonly referred to as a “journey edit”. It is still unclear who falls into which category. Based on the first episode, Dawn is still my choice for the winner and will remain so, until further conflicting information comes to light.

"RE: Episode 5 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by SereSurvivor on 10-18-11 at 05:13 PM
As a newbi I am really loving the great analysis this blog offers and so hesitate to jump in but here goes a couple of observatios. Cochran so far is looking like the weasel esp. to my casual viewer friends. His visuals are rather obnoxious so its hard to see where the edit takes him. He could go either way at this time. I like to remember that most of these shows at the heart are popularity contests and a lot of the jury members vote based on whether they like the person or not. Second it is difficult to make it to the final three unless they either win a lot of challenges or attach themselves to some one who does. Neither seems likely for Cochran, at this point!

"RE: Episode 5 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 10-19-11 at 02:21 AM
I agree he seems like a weasel. And welcome!

>>> Second it is difficult to make it to the final three unless they either win a lot of challenges or attach themselves to some one who does. Neither seems likely for Cochran, at this point!

well, there is another way, and that is to not be seen as any kind of challenge threat or jury threat. Cochran could do well in both categories.

These games have evolved from the days when a challenge ho could run the table. The all around challenge pro like Colby (original) and Terry Deitz is rare. Miss ONE win, and you're streak is done and you are gone.

Numbers in a majority alliance that stays loyal is really all it takes, OR, be the weak one that they don't bother to pick off at the end of the pagonging because they are now looking at eating their own alliance. This is how the "old" lady so often gets to the end or close to it.

However, a person with a good social and strategic game who has jury votes in the pocket, really does need an idol and/or immunities near the end to get all the way.

"RE: Episode 5 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by SereSurvivor on 10-19-11 at 10:08 AM
Wow, do I love this forum. Great insights, Outfrontgirl. I agree, as there is always a third solution to every problem! Cochran is such an enigma and absolutely genius edit by the shows producers. Bottom line tho I always do not pay too much attention to the "social game" until the merge in any reality show. After the merge the show often changes into a "new" show and sometimes the edit starts fresh. In fact if I were King (or Queen in this case) I would shake up the viewers and change the edit completely-do a cliffhanger before the merge then-BOOM! Would be awesome........
"RE: Episode 5 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by Dangerous on 10-19-11 at 03:13 PM
I'm a newbie too - need the company - jump in!!
"RE: Episode 5 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 10-19-11 at 02:23 AM
Dawn was my pick after Ep 1, so I agree with your choice.

"RE: Episode 5 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by Dangerous on 10-19-11 at 03:15 PM
Thanks for the encouragement Outfrontgirl. Michel makes a great argument for Cochran so I'm biting my nails over here!
"RE: Episode 5 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by michel on 10-19-11 at 05:58 PM
No need to bite your nails, Dangerous, it isn't a competition! Anyway, it's early enough that we can still get new info that would change our perceptions (and our pick)

For now, I wanted to add something that the discussion on Joseph Campbell has made me realize. I'm only starting to read on the author but ran across this definition of his Hero with a Thousand faces:

"A hero ventures forth from the world of common day into a region of supernatural wonder. Fabulous forces are there encountered and a decisive victory is won..."

Survivor was part of Cochran's common day but, like us, he saw it from his couch. By living it he is put in a "region of supernatural wonder" and he is confronted by forces greater than his. Cochran would be a new face to our hero, the Sole Survivor.

Certainly, other players this seasons are fans of the show, Jim Coach and Dawn most notably but the story of the superfan trying to fit in his dreamworld his Cochran's and Cochran's alone.

Coach is much too focused on the immediate. His problems with Stacey, Christine and Brandon have been the bane of his story.

For Jim, things have been too easy up to now. There has been no forces against him.

Dawn's edit is much closer to the Hero's but the main force she has faced was her age as she told us herself. Her victory in the challenge has removed much of the doubts in her story. She does fit in, she has "won".

Cochran, as we saw at the end of the last council is still concerned, He hasn't tasted victory yet.

(I know; a little knowledge is dangerous. I only have an introduction to Campbell so I could easily be refuted but I wanted to see where it would lead me.)

PS. There is room in the Cochran bandwagon!!


Thanks Agman!

"RE: Episode 5 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by Dangerous on 10-20-11 at 01:34 AM
Very interesting! I must do some reading up on Joseph Campbell!
"RE: Episode 5 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by Corvis on 10-20-11 at 09:16 AM
I strongly recommend reading Campbell. Fascinating stuff.
"RE: Episode 5 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by michel on 10-19-11 at 07:33 AM
Nice post, Dangerous.

Dawn certainly has a good edit but, since we agree that one of the themes is overcoming a bad start, I feel we have already seen Dawn Tasting Victory. Same with Coach. That image of Cochran still looking very concerned after a vote that went his way is in line with the way he formulated the theme: Getting rid of negative thoughts. He still has work to do which means he still hasn't tasted victory.


Thanks Agman!

"RE: Episode 5 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by Dangerous on 10-19-11 at 03:33 PM
Michel, you make a very good argument and I will not be surprised if you are correct.

If I were doing a pure editing analysis I'd probably be tempted to go with Cochran. However I have a "gut" reaction from the first episode, which leads me towards Dawn - I'm sure I'll find out soon whether my gut is to be trusted or not!

The scene which resonates with me and which I cannot shake is in the first episode where Ozzie encourages Dawn after her breakdown: “As long as you don’t quit, as long as you stay strong and keep fighting, you’ll be in this game. You have what it takes to keep going. But you have something inside of you that’s unsure and you need to confront it and tell it to get the hell out.”

I had the same emotional response I had when Fabio made his "You can call me whatever you want as long as I win the million dollars" comment in the first episode in Nicaragua, and when there was the fade-in to Natalie in the shelter in Samoa, as she murmured about Galu flipping post-merge. Immediately I said to myself: "That's the winner" (Granted, I had suspicions about Natalie already.) I cannot necessarily explain why those scenes stood out to me, given the number of red herring winner quotes that we are given during the course of a season.

Now emotional responses are dangerous to trust as they can colour one's objectivity, and I think we'll see pretty soon whether I'm being led in the wrong direction. But I am enjoying putting my stake in the ground and waiting as the mystery unfolds! (Don't worry - I'll get off this horse if it starts to buck too vigorously )

So looking forward to the next episode!

"RE: Episode 5 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by SereSurvivor on 10-19-11 at 04:33 PM
Thanks Dangerous, as a newbi this is one intimidating group but without a doubt the best out there. Have followed your insights daily since I originally logged on. Michel also has some formidable analysis, wow!

A thought- could Dawn be a total "Red Herring"- her story seems to be rather thin for a long term survivor. Her story after the merge will be critical and tell us a lot more about her journey, I hope!

Guess you can tell I love being the Contrarian...........

"RE: Episode 5 - Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by Dangerous on 10-20-11 at 01:42 AM
SereSurvivor, Contrarian is good - it's made Warren Buffett a lot of money! Sometimes I find that I can get locked into a certain mode of thinking and it's useful to have different perspectives that challenge my view....
"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by SereSurvivor on 10-19-11 at 10:12 AM
Wow, do I love this forum. Great insights. I agree, as there is always a third solution to every problem! Cochran is such an enigma and absolutely genius edit by the shows producers. Bottom line tho I always do not pay too much attention to the "social game" until the merge in any reality show. After the merge the show often changes into a "new" show altogether and sometimes the edit starts fresh. In fact if I were King (or Queen in this case) I would shake up the viewers and change the edit completely-do a cliffhanger before the merge then-BOOM! Would be awesome........
"Ep. 6"
Posted by OllieKat on 10-19-11 at 11:39 PM
I'm still learning (with the help of the experts here about reading the editing but I've come to one conclusion after this ep. I'm doubtful that the editors MEANT for me to feel this way but they did - as a woman I will be offended if either Brandon or John win this season.

I don't think I need to really get into why I feel that way about Brandon, his first three episodes showing his maladjusted attitude toward women are pretty clear. But if examples are needed, I'll be happy to provide them

The editors have been more subtle as showing John as a sexist but it's there. What I saw was: in ep.1 he whined about people daring to consider booting him before a girl; in ep. 5 (I believe) he commented about going out with the MEN fishing instead of being lumped in with the GIRLS staying on the beach (I'm not sure I can verbalize exactly what it was about him saying that that irked me so much, it may have just been his tone); and then the final nail in the coffin for me was tonight's episode when he said Ozzy was acting like "a little b*tch". Apparently the worst insult he could think of for Ozzy was to compare him to a female and to use an all-too-common put-down for women that I personally find offensive.

So yeah, whether the editors meant to or not, I find these two to be sexist pigs I want gone.

I'm curious if the women here have had a similar reaction or not. Also to the guys here - does this all sound like it's coming out of left field or can you see it as well?

And Kiki, if you get a chance can you ask your "focus group" about this? I'd love to get a casual viewer opinion

"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by Dangerous on 10-20-11 at 01:46 AM
I think that we are meant to view Cochran as immature and insecure. If he wins, part of his story will be developing social awareness and learning how to relate to others in a way that is unifying. There is still a lot of time for his edit to develop, particularly if he shows self-awareness and repentance.
"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by kiki_k on 10-20-11 at 03:20 AM
LAST EDITED ON 10-20-11 AT 03:36 AM (EST)

I'm with ya 100% sister!

Brandon, as you state, is obvs. Also John -- when he called Ozzy a little b-word tonight I had the *exact* same reaction as you for the *exact* same reason. It was actually worse, IMO, than Benjamin (aka the player formerly known as Coach) talking about Edna "doing as she's told" and we all know what a sexist pig *he* is. Great job there, Brandon & John -- you are actually making Benjamin look, if not exactly "good," at least not as "bad" in comparison.

There is no way they can redeem John at this point in my eyes -- I don't care if he matures into a hybrid of MLK & Sojourner Truth out there. Sadly, though, most viewers (male & female) will not care/will not see it & probably think John calling Ozzy a "little b" was "oh so funny" & that we are man-haters who can't "take a joke" because society has ingrained in us that it is not only OK to casually demean women but that (1) it *is* the most insulting thing to compare a man to a lowly female and (2) having a "hissy fit" is a female thing to do, so John "had a point." {rolls eyes}. Just look at the common name we call people who are cowardly -- begins with a "p" -- which is thrown around as casually as the "b" word to insult men & no one blinks an eye.

I'll be sure to talk to my focus group & report back just for you.

eta: @ Dangerous -- I'm sure you are correct that we are supposed to see John as immature & insecure -- and he is definitely that -- but the edit cannot hide that he's a sexist a$$ as well, at least not from me & OllieKat, even if we are the lone Cassandras. In fact, Jeff & MB have a long record of being sexist pigs themselves, so I'm sure they find that aspect of John's personality endearing, if they even noticed it.

"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by Modesty on 10-20-11 at 03:58 AM
I'm glad I've raised my two sons to be feminists. They really didn't have a lot of choice with a mum like me.

I agree about John's comment and don't forget his ep 1 comment about how insulted he would feel to be eliminated before "all those girls" and he spat the word out like it was burning his mouth. He's got a bad case of little man syndrome.

Instead of bashing though, I should focus my attention on those I've grown to love: Jim Ozzy and Dawn - for three very different reasons but at least none of them seem to be misogynists.

Interesting to see what my little focus group makes of this episode too.... but it's next week I'm really looking forward to.

Stay strong ladies xo.

"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by Flowerpower on 10-20-11 at 09:08 AM
LAST EDITED ON 10-20-11 AT 09:16 AM (EST)


I have to agree, ladies. I find Cochran very unappealing and he reminds me of a weasel of some kind. An opportunist. He's clearly a sexist. And, as michel pointed out, first Mikayla was pegged as a victim. A hard working girl member of the tribe, who gave her best at challenges was marked as a Delilah and a femme fatale from the troll boy, Brandon. But, as soon as Mikayla turned the tides and started bullying Brandon in her confessionals, she was no longer portrayed as the victim, she was marked as someone that was headed for the boot.

Isn't this the same thing? At first, Cochran was marked as a victim, especially by Ozzy, as the weakest member in the chain link Savaii fence. But, now, he's appearing like the bully, at least verbally, as did Mikayla. I know that they laughed at it, but me, the audience, thought him a little too arrogant for his britches. I really don't like him...He has had no original thinking...but, I am afraid that he could be the winner.

Regarding Ozzy. Clearly Ozzy's edit hit ROCK bottom this season, and especially in this episode. He was lazy, arrogant, etc, etc. There was NO way that he was winning this season with an edit like that! But, now, with the blindside of his girlfriend, and his rock bottom reaction, declaring himself a free agent and revealing his idol, I feel that this was a HUGE development for him.

This was like a huge slap in the face for him. Reaching rock bottom, then alienating himself and making the worst possible move (as we were told by Jim). But, then we heard him first note it as a big mistake, and how he wanted to get back with his tribe, and that he needed them and their trust. So he first makes amends with Keith, who tells him that he always thought they could go all the way together, get to the merge and run all of the IC's and take whoever they want to take. Then, Ozzy says he regrets telling them about his idol, and they share a laugh. He's able to re-evaluate his moves and laugh about how stupid he had been. This is what we call character development, right?

THen we immediately see Ozzy apologizing to Cochran, and the rest of the tribe, asking for their forgiveness and telling them that he wants to be one of them to the end. Jim again tells us that this is the best thing for him because Ozzy is the perfect tribe mate, he can help win challenges before the merge, and after the merge he's a bigger target than me...the perfect tribe mate. So, concerning Jim, we see that Ozzy will still have obstacles to surmount in the later game....but don't all winners have odds to surmount?

Then Ozzy is the one that talks first in the reward portion. We see the camera zoom in on them all as they have their arms around each other and one arm in the middle ready to do a cheer, and Ozzy says, "The most important thing about that challenge is we just had to stay calm...." Then hear Dawn say, "right!". Then Ozzy continues, "Even though it looked like we were gonna stay behind, just coming back and BOOM!" And they all cheer. Ozzy has his hand around Cochran and on Jim's shoulder, and Ozzy just seems to be now EMBRACING his tribe. This scene is ALL about team "reunifying" as Ozzy had called it earlier....

Then the scene ends with a "1, 2, 3....SAVAII" and we hear Ozzy say, "yes"!

Then they cut to Dawn's confessional:

"To win the immunity and the reward could not have come at a better time. We were coming off lots of hurt feelings, and lots of drama. So, winning was the BEST feeling!"

Then we see them on the picnic blanket and we hear Ozzy say..."SAVAII SIX, to the end, man!" and we see him raise his glass with he and Cochran in close up...

This reminded me of how committed he was to the Aitu 4. This is the Ozzy that we knew and loved. I can't help but think will the Savaii 6 get to the end...together? Is the HERO, Ozzy, reemerging?

Then Ozzy has the big confessional...A reward like this really brought us all back together. It really made me want someone (we see COCHRAN) from this tribe to win the million. (Now we see WHITNEY), then we see OZZY....I don't care if it's me....well, I do care if it's me, I want it to be me, but if it's not me, I do hope it's someone else from my tribe. Immediately we cut to Ozzy as he stands high among the rock cliff and prepares to dive in, head first from the rocks.

Then, immediately we hear Dawn's reaction...That was CRAZY!!!.... and she asks Cochran if he agreed. He replied, "I'm not physically or emotionally capable of doing that".

This was indeed a very significant scene. First of all, I wondered will Cochran, Whitney, and Ozzy be the F3?

Regardless....as Cochran was seen when Ozzy said he really wants someone to win from his tribe, clearly, Cochran could be the winner. BUT, the thing that gave me pause was if Ozzy wasn't meant to be a final contender, than they could have "cut/spliced" the sound bytes to omit the part where he says, "well, I do care if it's me, I want it to be me". But, they included it, and I can't help that they included that for a reason. I am beginning to think that Ozzy has a shot at this.

Then with his CRAZY high dive, it makes me think that Ozzy will do something very risky, "crazy", with his eyes wide open, head first to get to the end....does this foreshadow his volunteering to go to RI for the sake of his tribe, which we speculate may happen next episode? It sure could earn him some jury points in the end, if he makes it. Risking self sacrifice for the good of his tribe...it's a plan.

Also, it was an interesting repsonse from Cochran....I'm not physically or emotionally capable of doing that. Is this foreshadowing that he will not win, or is it misdirection. I think that there is argument to support both.

Then the scene ends with Cochran stripping off "the boundary between him and nature", his sweater vest, and take the plunge down the rocks to the water, where Ozzy, Dawn, Jim, and Whitney sat in judgement. Do they represent the jury that will sit in judgement later? Sure seems that way....

But, immediately after that scene, we have Ozzy following effortlessly down the same path, with the entire tribe sitting in judgement...Cochran, Dawn, Jim, Keith, and Whitney. Again, I can't help but to wonder if Ozzy and Cochran will be in the F3? Which one is the "journey" player and will fall short, and which one is the one that deserves the most redemption?

In sum: This was a very pivotal episode for Ozzy. He hit rock bottom and now seems like he is reborn. Will he take the commitment that almost won him the show in Cook Islands and apply it with a new unified Savaii tribe to dive right in, head first into another final showdown? Is this reformed Ozzy solid enough to win it, or is this too little, too late?

With a theme of redemption, I am now thinking that the old Ozzy I used to know and love may indeed re-emerge and could even possibly win this thing? OTOH, I think Cochran could be the journey player that hopefully has his dream come true by lasting till the end. With a less than stellar edit....self depreciating comments, sexist remarks and someone that can be somewhat socially inept himself ( a la the herpes conversation), I just don't know if he will win....he certainly has many qualities that could be redeemed. He could be our winner...?

With this episode, I think that Dawn will not be the winner. She is starting to narrate more than be talked about herself. She's used to validate the feelings and events...

I feel strongly now, that the winner is on the Savaii tribe. They became unified at a GREAT time, where as now, merge pending, it really seems like the previously unified tribe of Upolu is splintering, as was noted with the divided vote. Very telling, imo! This was a huge episode and most of it was because of OZZY. Yes, his stock has risen immensely with this show...fwiw.



"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by Modesty on 10-20-11 at 09:35 AM
As you know Flower I've been feeling the same vibes for quite a few episodes now. It seemed very odd that they'd throw Ozzy under the bus without any form of redemption.

Did you notice how they actually managed to make him seem like a completely different person? For the first however many days we've seen him solemn and serious only. Suddenly, there's happy music playing whenever he talks and he's laughing casually and and he's nowhere near as bland! They're letting him have a personality. Very strong editing intent to show two very different Ozzy's - the before and after if you will. I ask myself why.

"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by parathor on 10-20-11 at 09:36 AM
It's like you took the words right from my mouth! Er, fingers... typing... but yeah. Savaii wins this season!

Ozzy totally redeemed himself this episode. But does that mark the end of his story? It has been said that once you're redeemed, your story is no longer of importance. I'm still hoping he goes far... he's a compelling character. Much easier to cheer for him than Coach now, who had a bad episode in my opinion. I'm not sure how he can do basically the same thing that Rob did (have a secure alliance with a weak woman, keep the overall alliance strong) but appear less in control and more villainous.

(Rob probably would have knocked down all those posts by himself, though... so maybe that's the difference)

Cochran is totally a different sort of villain, and someone I'm not interested in cheering for. I cheered for Russell, I cheered for Coach, I cheered for Parvati... but Cochran has none of their charm. There doesn't seem to be anything worth noting for him. He's weak at challenges, weak at strategizing (despite Jeff's assertion, it was all Jim's idea to get rid of Elyse), weak at providing... he has story left, but I'm not interested in learning about it. And he's not funny or clever.

Mikayla is interesting... strong competitor that failed to strategize, failed to gain many supporters (that we could see), and ultimately failed at the final challenge (Coach also failed at this). I'm done with her. I hope she's safe, but that's about it.

"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by Flowerpower on 10-20-11 at 10:11 AM
Modesty and Parathor, sounds like we are getting the same vibes. Regarding your question...

But does that mark the end of his story? It has been said that once you're redeemed, your story is no longer of importance.

I don't think so. There are hints and foreshadowing of things to come for Ozzy. First of all, the conflict that Jim presents when he notes that Ozzy is the perfect tribemate as Jim is using him to win challenges pre-merge, and post merge he'll use him as a shield as a bigger target than himself. Thus, he is laying out the conflicts of the post merge. Clearly, Ozzy is the biggest challenge whore out there and is thus the biggest target out there, and don't forget, he, like Coach, has already had 2 previous shots at this.

Then, when we hear this from the first scene of the reward from Ozzy:
The most important thing about that challenge is we just had to stay calm...." (insert Dawn validating this assessment with her, "right!". Then Ozzy continues, "Even though it looked like we were gonna stay behind, just coming back and BOOM!

While he is recapping the challenge to the victorious Savaii tribe, might he also be foreshadowing his own strategy.....no matter how bad it looks, I've got to just stay calm, no matter how far behind it looks like I am, I can come back....and BOOM!

Sure sounds like it's good advice, a good plan, and a good strategy....will Ozzy employ it? I say YES, HE WILL!!!


"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by kiki_k on 10-20-11 at 12:50 PM
I'm glad you are seeing it this way. I also see a start of an Ozzy redemption back to the Aitu 4 Ozzy who overcame some impossible odds.

And John's "money quote" IMO was the "I'm not emotionally or physically capable of doing that." Yeah, he could be the winner, but after that quote I doubt it.

"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by Flowerpower on 10-20-11 at 02:24 PM
Yes, you are right, Kiki. I know that we are most likely seeing things that we want to see as we were great Ozzy fans, because of how he played the game in the Cook Islands. He has been taken to a new low, a low where all of us hard core Ozzy fans didn't even want to root for him anymore. I had even started to post and NOT use my Ozzy siggie. Because, I couldn't relate to "Bob Marley" anymore, he was a lazy, arrogant, entitled jerk. As Cochran pointed out. But, with this episode and glimpses of the Cook Islands Ozzy "hero" returning, of course we are all over it.

I will concede that perhaps my take on the editing could be colored by my admiration for Cook Islands Ozzy, one of my favorite competitors of all time.

Yes, that quote of Cochran's really stood out to me as well. Just as I was reminded of the "title" quote that Ozzy had in episode 1....I need redemption...


"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by kiki_k on 10-20-11 at 03:00 PM
I concede my bias about Ozzy as well. Cook Islands Ozzy should have won that season. IMO, there has never been a better & more deserving of the win player in Survivor history; his coming in 2nd (even to as nice a guy as Yul) is still the biggest injustice in Survivor history to this day, IMO, because without Ozzy as the engine that kept the Aitu 4 together & winning challenges there would have been no "Aitu 4" to make it to merge. I'm hoping that Ozzy comes back. After all, we've already had the FvF Ozzy for the first half of the season (lazy, arrogant, too involved with the pretty girl to see what was going on in the game); it will be perfect symmetry if we get the Cooks Island Ozzy for the second half.

And yes, you are right about the "I need redemption" quote from Ozzy that was the title for Episode 1 -- I meant to mention that as well. It isn't just that Ozzy needs "redemption" in the larger sense of the vet player who should have won & didn't (like Boston Rob last season), it may well be that Ozzy "needs" Redemption Island (which he referred to merely as "Redemption" last episode) to do it. The key to Ozzy winning this season (if he does) is going to be related somehow to Redemption Island, IMO.

"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by Belle Book on 10-20-11 at 07:20 PM
No offense, but although I like Ozzy, I don't think he should have won Cook Islands. Yeah, his challenge ability played a huge role in helping the "Aitu 4" make it to the merge, but the most important rule is, according to the Reality News Online editor David Bloomberg, "Make Machaivelli Proud -- Scheme and Plot." Ozzy didn't do enough of it in Cook Islands. That's why he lost Cecelia and one reason why he lost the vote to Yul -- Yul was able to scheme and plot enough to get a vote from Adam by agreeing to get rid of Jonathan before Adam and Parvati. That's why Yul was the rightful winner.

That said, I'd like to see Ozzy come back from these nearly impossible odds. He's done it before, he could do it again.


"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by kiki_k on 10-20-11 at 04:02 PM
One last pro-Ozzy point & then I'll give it a rest:

I know the easy conclusion when Ozzy said that although he really wants to win the $$ he wants a Savaii to win first & foremost (paraphrase) over shots of John, Dawn, Whitney then back to Ozzy taking the "crazy" high dive -- that it means that a Savaii, but not Ozzy, wins.

I think that same sequence could be taken as part of Ozzy's redemption. The main complaint about Ozzy since FvF & the first half of this season is that "Ozzy is all about Ozzy," big ego, selfish. Perhaps this sequence is showing the "maturing" of Ozzy, who is becoming less selfish, less ego-driven. The "old" Ozzy would *never* have been OK with (what he sees as "lesser") players such as John, Dawn or Whitney, all of whom have never really been with him winning over him regardless of the fact they were original Savaii members. Ozzy 2.0, OTOH, is OK with that -- he's looking outside of his own ego-driven game and putting loyalty to his tribe first. Taken that way, the sequence bodes well for Ozzy, because the overriding theme this season is definitely loyalty.

"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by Modesty on 10-20-11 at 06:55 PM
Just a thought Kiki, I think the high dive scene with that commentary from Dawn and Cochran was telling us one thing: Ozzy is prepared to take risks that others would not be able to. Couple that with his saying he wants a Savaii to win and you have someone who would do anything for his tribe. It's like they're showing two totally different people.
"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 10-20-11 at 07:17 AM
LAST EDITED ON 10-20-11 AT 07:19 AM (EST)

Oh, I agree about Cochran, he needs to come up with a more appropriate way to express his feelings about Ozzy. It didn't bother me, personally, because I've seen far worse that has been said about others on 'Survivor'.

It's worth noting, though, that when Natalie repeatedly called Jason a b!tch throughout post-merge in Fans vs. Favourites, most of us laughed about it and there were no comments about her frequent use of the word to describe Jason.

"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by kiki_k on 10-20-11 at 12:51 PM
I wasn't here then, but I actually stopped watching FvF because of Natalie.
"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by michel on 10-20-11 at 08:22 PM
Clementine was the funniest player in FVF post-merge. From an invisible player to the stone-cold bitch on one episode!!! And i had the good fortune to summarize that episode!

Ooops, used the bitch word but Clementine called herself that first!

"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by KObrien_fan on 10-20-11 at 07:16 AM
I'm a woman and I didn't take Cochran's comments in a bad way, in fact, yes I thought they were funny. He reminds me a lot of Rob Cesternino, he can poke fun at himself "my mom would kill me if she saw me out here with a machete", he can assess and re-evaluate himself and has constantly through the game so far. At the same time he gives open assessments of the others. Ozzy was being a whiny pouty b****.

Cochran's edit took another GOOD turn last night, he has been shown twice now adapting to his tribe and environment and getting the tribes blessing for it.

In episode 1 remember the let's go relax in the ocean scene? Pale Cochran didn't want to expose his weak pale frame to the tribe, he didn't want to go swimming and laying in the ocean, he admitted he was out of his element and that physically he didn't fit in with the 90210 bodies. But he did strip down to his underwear and when he joined his tribe they were all waiting for him and cheering for him, welcoming him. He even got the slow motion cameo.

Similar to last night, he admits he has never been out in nature much and the thought of sliding down mossy rocks didn't thrill him. But again he was shown taking off that Harvard sweater vest and being cheered on by his waiting tribe as he stepped out of his comfort zone to adapt with the others.

Cochran is evolving before our very eyes, he is growing up in a way similar to Jud did a few seasons ago.

There have been many survivors in the past who have shunned their tribe and not willing to adapt and go outside their comfort zone, Shambo being one of recent memory. By shunning her tribe for being different, she was shunned and became the outsider. When they all went in the water, she turned her head and said "I aint doing that".

The question is, is Cochran in the end going to be a journey player who falls short of the prize, or is his quest to learn and adapt enough to win him the million? I still think he is being edited as our winner, overcoming a rough start but having the passion to continually adapt in order to redeem himself.


I'm not sure who came first hosting games, you or Tribe, but you are both nefarious! - CTGirl

"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by SereSurvivor on 10-20-11 at 08:55 AM
You are right KO, Ozzie is incredibly immature for a man his age and it was very revealing moment, but I think what we are saying here is some words are no longer acceptable, ever. So when some one uses the n word, b word or even c word it gives us an insight into that persons true character and you better believe thats what the shows editors want us to see. It is what it is and these guys are being exposed by the producers deliberately, maybe to presage future outbursts coming.
"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by Corvis on 10-20-11 at 09:15 AM
While I don't disagree with the fact that the word "b*tch* is demeaning and never appropriate because of the misogynistic implications, I don't think the editors are thinking that way and trying to subtly push us in that direction. "B*tch" is accepted in our culture right now, though I do think that's changing (too) slowly, and it's more likely the editors are not aware of or care about the implications of that word.

I think Kobrien's analysis of Cochran's edit is much more likely.

"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by SereSurvivor on 10-20-11 at 09:56 AM
Of course you may indeed be right-I was just supporting the previous posters in the thread-on the other hand my husband said that when a guy "derisively" calls another guy a "b" in public it is usually a gay reference and hubby woulda slugged Jim, really! Still think the editors had another reason for including that clip. Time will tell, but I do want to support the previous girls in the thread. Still friends ?
"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by Corvis on 10-20-11 at 10:02 AM
Oh gosh, of course! I hope my post didn't come off as an attack. I was just offering another view. It's all good.

(I was also hoping my post was coming across as supportive of the previous posters point of view that the word is offensive.)

"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by Modesty on 10-20-11 at 10:09 AM
I can't speak for all the ladies but I'm not offended

I'm not a bra-burning man-hater (quite the contrary - I adore men). I guess I'm just from the era where women always struggled to be recognized as equal (far more so than today).

Although I was annoyed by Cochran, I found Benjamin's disrespect for Edna far worse. I yelled at the TV: "She's a doctor and you're a loser!" As an excessively over-educated woman myself, that seriously pissed me off.... even though I'd happily take the job of wiping Ozzy's a** myself, as he was suggesting at the time.

"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by Corvis on 10-20-11 at 10:16 AM
"Although I was annoyed by Cochran, I found Benjamin's disrespect for Edna far worse."

I agree with this 100%. Coach is an a**.

"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by SereSurvivor on 10-20-11 at 10:10 AM
Oh gosh yes of course-this is all such fun-sure hope no one takes this silly stuff personally, after all:
"Its just a Game!"

Luv ya,
if you're ever in Florida, I'll take ya surfin !!!!

"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by Corvis on 10-20-11 at 10:17 AM
If you're ever in Iowa, I'll take you... hrm. Why do I live here again?
"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by SereSurvivor on 10-20-11 at 10:59 AM
Corvis:
Thats easy-cause you have a Job !
Have great day everybody-I'm off to work
Pray for me, I'm a Computer Analyst......
! HELP !
"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by OllieKat on 10-20-11 at 12:12 PM
Wow! Thanks for all the discussion on this! I'm glad to know that I'm not seeing things that absolutely are not there - or at least it's good to know I've got good company in hallucinating

With my distaste of John (I refuse to call him by his last name - I'm a brat that way!) I kind of breezed by Ben's treatment of Edna. That, too, was offensive and I can only hope he ends up in her operating room one day With him I think I consider him delusional all the way around so his sexism delusion is just added in.

I did a re-check of my feelings on Jim because he's been given a few "oh look, pretty girls (in a Homer Simpson doughnut voice)" but I'm not finding him offensive. Maybe because he doesn't seem threatened by the "pretty girls" but is more worried what their presence could do to his game. He, to me, is coming across as a guy who likes women but who is putting his game first. Does that make sense?

Since I'm actively rooting against John I'm depending on y'all to tell me if I'm seeing bad things in his edit (that point to him not winning) because I dislike his character or if it's really there. Having said that....one thing that stood out to me last night that doesn't bode well for him was him saying that the longer Ozzy was being cranky the better it was for him (John). Well, Ozzy did manage to come around not too much longer after that so does that mean it's bad for John? I can only hope!

I guess I'll go ahead and put my stake in the ground (foot in my mouth?) and say that I think Jim is winning. I think he's been the one that's been edited as the player who understands the game and the strategy of how to win it. I think what sealed it for me was ep 5 when he was the one who recognized Ozzy's comment about Ben voting off Albert as a tool that could be used to get Keith on his side of the Eylse vote.

"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by Flowerpower on 10-20-11 at 02:35 PM
Good point, Ollie, you are right. Cochran had the confessional about the longer Ozzy behaves that way, the better it is for me. Then they cut to the scene where Cochran says Ozzy is acting like a "stupid bi+ch". Then the action cuts to Upolu and we had Brandon finding the clue at Upolu, then the RI drama, then back at Upolu with Edna and Coach, then as soon as we see Savaii again, it's Ozzy telling Keith he made a mistake and that is there anyway we can still work together.....So, you are right, Ozzy appears to immediately apologize and switch gears....fwiw. What's good for Ozzy doesn't appear to be what's best for Cochran.
"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 10-20-11 at 02:53 PM
Before we're too quick to condemn Cochran John's chances in the game because of a few choice words made about others, it's worth remembering that Brian won in Thailand despite being a rather offensive person himself (remember the middle finger he used to describe Clay while rattling off some names in his alliance?).
"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by kiki_k on 10-20-11 at 03:05 PM
Good point, Pepe. But I would say that Brian was a 100% complete & totally committed jerk from day 1 who didn't give a dayum who knew it. Unlike Brian, John doesn't know he's a jerk and would certainly care if he thought he was viewed as one.

IMO, Jim is more analogous to Brian than John.

"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by KObrien_fan on 10-20-11 at 06:34 PM
I agree BR. Also, nobody thought Fabio had much chance of winning when he always acted like such a goof and even peed in the pool during a challenge.


I'm not sure who came first hosting games, you or Tribe, but you are both nefarious! - CTGirl

"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by SurvivorFan101 on 10-20-11 at 06:39 PM
I don't comment very often, but I feel the need because all of you spoke of the one comment that struck me wrongly last night - John's name calling was entirely sexist and I actually believe that was probably a very candid moment for him.

From the start of the season there has been something that has bothered me about him. I think I've put it together. I'm actually a lawyer and I didn't love law school very much at all because of a certain element of people that I attended school with and John reminds me exactly of this element. There are people that go to law school who are bright people, but up and until that point had been picked on a little for whatever reason (nerdy, geeky, dorky, whatever) - these people end up in law school with a chip on their shoulders in wanting to prove how truly superior they can be. For this element the law gives them power over other people.

John, while having moments of self-deprecation, doesn't buy into that at all - I really believe he thinks he is smarter than everyone around him and he has a very high opinion of himself. Given what the editors showed last night, I think we'll all begin to see more of this John in future episodes.

"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by Flowerpower on 10-20-11 at 08:52 PM
LAST EDITED ON 10-21-11 AT 08:59 AM (EST)

Thanks for the input, SurvivorFan. And, thanks for dropping in with your 2 cents. I definitely get that vibe from him to. His self deprecation is just a ploy he uses to disarm others. I don't buy into it really. I also agree that he most likely thinks he's superior, I hope the editors do start to show this. For me, this would be even more annoying. He's a distasteful character, so far, for me. He is no Stephen Fishbaum, that's for sure.

I also wanted to comment that it's not that we are throwing out any other possible survivors as winners, it's just Ozzy had a huge episode last night. He made a 180, and as I noted above, the question that remains is, is it too little too late, or is it true redemption, and all that that entails in a season titled, "Redemption Island". Food for thought...

ETA: You know, the more Ozzy takes on a hero edit, the more villainous Jim and Cochran become, imo. They are the ones shown talking trash about him...

"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by suzzee on 10-20-11 at 03:15 PM
Corn?
"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by Corvis on 10-20-11 at 03:37 PM
The corn is very good...
"RE: Ep. 6"
Posted by SereSurvivor on 10-20-11 at 03:42 PM
LAST EDITED ON 10-21-11 AT 12:15 PM (EST)

Re: Corn?

My bad-we were having a 'showmance"
totally inappropriate-wont happen again

Ha Ha remember "its just a game!"

"Focus Group results"
Posted by kiki_k on 10-20-11 at 02:10 PM
Shocked, shocked that John would say that ("my jaw drooped I couldn't believe it") and he's getting "a little too high on his horse for me." (Not that she liked him in the first place). Still can't stand Jim -- "the biggest weasel of all" and Keith is an idiot. Glad to see it looks like the old Ozzy is making a comeback and "it's about time. I'd almost given up on him."

"What's the good looking guy on Coach's tribe's name again?" (Albert) "Has he been on the show the whole time?"* (I had to LOL at that one; good point, IMO).

Benjamin -- "I didn't see him making any shots so why was it Mikayla's fault they lost?" He reminded her why she can't stand him after starting to like him in HvV. "He's one strange cat and not in a good way."

Saw it as "nice" that Brandon kept his word about not voting Edna out. When Brandon finds out about the HII it is going to be "war" among the Upolus.

Nothing too earth-shattering. The most important thing from my perspective is that they see a start of a redemption arc for Ozzy (although they didn't call it that) *and* Brandon. Benjamin, meanwhile, took a decidedly negative turn in their opinion. Everyone else stayed the same or got slightly worse in their opinion (Jim & John).

*Remember, they missed the last episode where Albert got about 2 whole minutes of screen time.

"RE: Focus Group results"
Posted by Corvis on 10-20-11 at 02:24 PM
This is great! I love hearing how the average watcher sees things in contrast to we Survivor faniacs.
"RE: Focus Group results"
Posted by Modesty on 10-20-11 at 06:50 PM
hehe

Where does this focus group meet Kiki? I'll bring the wine and cheese! They sound like a funny bunch and I agree with their sentiments - except I like Jim. Interestingly my focus group hate Jim too.

"Since we are Off-Topic"
Posted by michel on 10-20-11 at 08:27 PM
LAST EDITED ON 10-20-11 AT 09:20 PM (EST)

This is my POV on the issue:

http://funny115.com/v2/76.htm

ETA: Strange that no one commented on Jim's "He threw a hissy fit" and Whitney's: "He needs to man up."
Both are sexist and the first is very negative.

"RE: Since we are Off-Topic"
Posted by SereSurvivor on 10-21-11 at 11:09 AM
LAST EDITED ON 10-21-11 AT 12:13 PM (EST)

Michel-first love your analysis, its what drew me to this site
Noticed your background in Westeren Philo, mine is Eastern Philo (Daoist) so I find I usually have a contrarian view here in the states of most everything!

Anyhoo, we were all discussing all of the discriminatory remarks shown in this episode-possibly the edit was to reveal the darker side of some of the players and what this may tell us is coming at us. ie: a throw down-there is usually one ugly incident in most reality series. Did you see the edit this way?

"RE: Since we are Off-Topic"
Posted by kiki_k on 10-21-11 at 01:30 PM
LAST EDITED ON 10-21-11 AT 01:32 PM (EST)

First, we aren't off topic.

Second, you seriously don't see the difference between a sexist comment that demeans women and the others insults you've listed? (That is a rhetorical question in case you feel the need to answer).

"RE: Since we are Off-Topic"
Posted by OllieKat on 10-21-11 at 03:01 PM
First, thanks for the report on the focus group kiki I think knowing what the "casuals" are seeing (even if we have a really small sample size) can be a good tool to use in deciphering the edit. Send my thanks along to them for giving reports!

Second, "hissy fit" and "man up" - to me (and maybe it's just because of where I grew up) "hissy fit" makes me think of a kid/teenager and not a woman. So when Jim said it, I went to the place where he's comparing Ozzy to a kid. In thinking about it I did realize that I've heard people use the phrase to refer to a hysterical/upset woman so I could give Jim a retroactive ding for it. But the big difference, again for me, is that I had to think about it referring to a woman where I didn't have to think about what John said. His was blatant. "Man up" - besides it being way overused in today's vocab, I find that one to reference an adult who's acting immaturely. That may also be a product of the area I live in but I didn't find anything sexist in it. The funny thing is that I can't for the life of me remember Whitney saying anything during that convo. The editors have done an outstanding job of making me not notice her

This is all just my personal response to what went down in the last ep. I'm certainly not claiming to be right, in bringing in up I was just hoping to find out that I wasn't completely making things up that weren't there.

"RE: Since we are Off-Topic"
Posted by michel on 10-21-11 at 05:22 PM
I find this discussion off-topic because, if I want to see what casual viewers are thinking, I go to fanatics.

As for Hissy fit, here's the definition: A sudden outburst of temper, often used to describe female anger at something trivial.
How is that not sexist?

As for "Man-up", it demeans men that don't always show a strong facade, reduces them to kids (or maybe little girls) Since you wouldn't ask a woman to man-up, it's sexist.

At a certain point, words are used so commonly that they become detached from their original meaning and get new meanings. Thus with Bitch, which is used as much for men and women.

In France, a common expletive is "putain" which should, in the real sense, be awfully sexist but it's also used by women and men to express surprise in a wide range of emotions, from joy to anger (see def #3).

"RE: Since we are Off-Topic"
Posted by kiki_k on 10-21-11 at 05:31 PM
LAST EDITED ON 10-21-11 AT 05:34 PM (EST)

rhetorical question: (noun) a question asked solely to produce an effect or to make an assertion and not to elicit a reply.

I couldn't be less interested in mansplain'n sexism.

"RE: Since we are Off-Topic"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 10-21-11 at 06:22 PM
I didn't see anything wrong with either remark. I save my indignation for really bad ones. Laughed at the Ozzy hissy fit. As for "man up" -- that's something JT would have said, and he was a hero.

Why are we talking about these words?
If it's to argue that the speakers got a negative edit for using them, then I totally disagree. Didn't notice Whitney, but Jim's remark earned him humor points in my household.

Maybe if "hissy fit" were used as a rationale for putting down a woman's genuine emotions, but to describe the sulky poutfest by the Survivor provider god Ozzy, it was funny. When the high and mighty are brought low, that is one essence of comedy as it has been written for over 2000 years.

"RE: Since we are Off-Topic"
Posted by dabo on 10-25-11 at 11:10 AM
The three references really did come from the speakers' own cultural frames of mind. John is still in school, young enough to be comfortable using the b-word without thinking of it as gender-specific. Whitney is southern and part of the country music culture, "man up" is straight out of her world. "Hissy fit" may not be in common use much but it does come up in some sub-cultures, descriptive of the event not the person, and Jim as a pot dealer and poker player is just a sub-culture kind of guy.
"RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor South Pacific"
Posted by SereSurvivor on 10-22-11 at 03:04 PM
LAST EDITED ON 10-22-11 AT 03:05 PM (EST)

Yikes, I think we all can agree that bigoted behaviour is wrong and is obviously local. (ie. All politics is local")

Just came back from a lecture by the original 1960s Freedom Riders. The white and black kids that made those famous, incredibly dangerous bus rides to Jackson, Mississipi.

We and our opinions are all so insignificant compared to these heroes. So lets all drop it and get back to the game! Peace out...........

"Episode 6 Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by michel on 10-22-11 at 05:40 PM
Previously, the two returning players were heading in opposite directions.
At Upolu, Coach’s control of the tribe was growing…
He was on top of an alliance of 5 and had added Edna as his personal 6th.

At Savaii, Ozzy’s control was eroding…
<Cochran told us that Ozzy was becoming arrogant and felt he was entitled to their deference.>
Jim approached Cochran with a plan to undermine Ozzy by getting rid of his closest ally.

At the immunity challenge, Upolu narrowly chewed out a win…
<Mikayla shown picking up the piece of meat on the ground.>
…sending Savaii to Tribal Council.

Ozzy wanted to strengthen the tribe by getting rid of Cochran but the rest of the tribe conspired to keep Cochran and Ozzy was completely surprised by the result.
…Ozzy is left to wonder where he stands with his tribe.

The Ups and Downs continue as this recap and the upcoming episode indicate. Cochran received less praise in this recap than in the previous ones but he was still front and center here, only Jim and Edna sharing the spotlight with him as far as the new players are concerned.
Mikayla’s role was only mentioned in the play-by-play of the immunity challenge, not in Jeff’s scripted voice-over but I think it was important to have it included. More on that later.

For now, let’s look at an episode where, from Ozzy’s tantrum to Brandon’s final stand, we were reminded that:

It’s Just a Game


Savaii – Night 14

Arriving in camp, Ozzy addressed Keith, Cochran and Jim: “When you are on the wrong side of a blindside, you realize where the other people are.”

Ozzy: “I’m pretty pissed off. Keith, Whitney and myself had a pretty good thing going. They went behind my back and voted someone out without telling me and making me feel like an idiot. How can you trust someone who goes behind your back? It goes against every thing that an alliance is supposed to be.”

Ozzy then declared himself a free agent, the episodes official title.
The discussion continued and Dawn told him that he was witholding stuff himself.
Ozzy used that opening: “I have the idol. How about that?” He added that they were forgetting about Redemption Island.

Notice that the subject of the two votes against Dawn never came up. A big part of her story is being ignored and, usually, that isn’t a good thing.

Savaii Day 15

Ozzy: “I was pretty surprised that they voted Elyse out. The fact that they felt the need to go behind my back doesn’t make any sense especially when you are trying to build tribe unity. I’m just trying to be the provider, I am just trying to lead by example but they have to be forthcoming if they want me to be part of this tribe.”

Ozzy reacted the same way here as he did in the Cook Islands after Cecilia was voted out. After a night of anger, he slowly cooled down there also.

The tribe was disappointed with Ozzy’s behavior. Whitney expressed it thus: “He needs to man-up.”

Jim: “Things are coming together better than I could have ever drawn it up. Now, instead of Ozzy being the leader, he throws what could best be described as a hissy-fit. I thought Ozzy was going…to realize that he needs to apologize to everyone. That wasn’t the case…He went to the other side of the island, not talking to anybody... Not only that: He revealed that he had the idol and says that he is a free agent. The guy couldn’t have made any worse moves than he did.”

I could refer Jim to a few players I know that stay bitter a long time after the vote!!

Cochran: “I don’t know if Ozzy’s temper tantrum is going to continue well into the future but the less pleasant that he is, the better it is for me so I hope he continues being a cry-baby because it’s great for me.”

To the group, he concluded: “He is behaving like a stupid bitch.”

I read many comments from viewers who figured Cochran was sexist but that certainly wasn’t the editors’ intent for that scene because we clearly heard Dawn laughing at the joke. The woman present didn’t find it offensive.

Upolu

The tribe was enjoying another finely cooked meal.

Note that we didn’t see the chef but viewers were probably left with the impression that Brandon was handling the chore again. The editors are even using subliminal messages to make us like Brandon.

Coach: “It’s a beautiful day: There’s plenty of stuff to eat, I’ve got the immunity idol…Unfortunately, Brandon is a loose canon and he might tell anybody. I know he will feel betrayed at some point in time but that’s down the road.”

It might not be so far off down the road…

Brandon: “Jeff told us that there is going to be a clue to a hidden immunity idol in our camp but nobody’s found it. It’s important for us to find that clue because it means almost the game at the merge…Sure enough, it was stuck inside the tree.”

He went to Coach and Albert, saying: “Being a Hantz, I guess it paid off.”

Coach: “You know Brandon, he’s a Hantz. He’s got the nose and the bloodhound scent for the idol…I have the idol in my possession and Brandon doesn’t know it and the thing is that I talked to Brandon about playing the game as Christian men and we are going to do that but is withholding information lying?”

We saw Brandon searching while Coach and Albert observed, both laughing and worrying about the ressemblance to Russell.
Albert told Coach he wouldn’t want to be in his shoes when Brandon learns the truth.

Albert: “Brandon is climbing up trees and it’s kind of breaking my heart that he is on a wild goose chase because he’s never going to find anything. Eventually, it’s going to hit him. He’s not the sharpest tool in the shed but he’ll figure out that somebody has the idol.”

Just then Brandon asked Coach and Albert: “You wouldn’t think that someone’s already found it, would you?”
Coach replied: “I wouldn’t think so.”

That is a little more than just withholding information

Coach told us about having flashbacks to Russell in Heroes versus Villains was scaring the heck out of him.
Just then, we saw the image of Russell himself walking on a beach as if taking Brandon’s place.

Duel Arena

Since we hadn’t seen Elyse arriving at RI, it wasn’t surprising to see her lose the challenge.
Despite her blindside, we didn’t hear any comments from Ozzy and Keith.
Jeff commented that Christine had spent more time on RI than in the game.
Christine broke down, crying and telling us that it was hard: “I appear to be strong and I am but Redemption Island can break you. It sucks”
Once again, Christine showed that she had no love for her old Upolu tribe, showing Rick and Edna the finger.
As she left, Christine said: “I don’t want to go back.”

Rick: “Christine, if she comes back, I think she will flip in a hurry. I guarantee you that she’s going to have fire in her eyes. She’s going to be smoking and will be ready to kill us.”

With her tears before the duel and her words at the end, it seems that Christine’s story on Redemption Island his reaching its conclusion. We were presented with a determined woman that was doing her best but that is just braking down due to the rigors of the Island.

Upolu

Sophie: “At the duel, Christine was really pissed off so, no matter what she says, if she comes back into the game she isn’t going to be with us…I think Christine would be the worst person to come back from Redemption Island.”

Edna and Coach went looking for coconuts.

Edna: “Ever since Brandon told me I wasn’t part of the alliance of six, I definitely knew that I had to do something. So I’ve been cozying up to Coach because I want Coach to know that I haven’t wavered in my relationship with him and I think it’s working.”

Coach: “I really like Edna. I have this vibe like, I don’t know, it’s just weird. You pick up with certain people around here and you feel comfortable. I feel comfortable with Edna. She is the one person out here that I think would lay her Survivor life down for me. To vote her out before Mikayla who isn’t part of the six…that would be crazy.”

We saw a crab walking the beach and suddenly hide itself under a rock. I wonder if that was to tell us that there is something hidden in Edna, something that Coach hasn’t picked up and could surprise him down the road. Coach’s words certainly leaves him wide open to a backstab.

Edna: “Coach told me that I would be safe for a little while longer so I feel more reassured. He could be lying to me but, for right now, I feel reassured.”

Coach then asked her if she was prepared for anything in this game, if she would follow him in battle.
She answered: “Yes, even if it gets ugly.”

Savaii

Ozzy : “I felt like, after Tribal Council, I really needed to make a stand but, after my temtper tantrum, I realized I made a mistake. I still want to make something happen with this tribe because you got to have people that you trust if you want to make it to the end.”

With Keith, he agreed to look passed it.
They shared a laugh about Ozzy revealing he had the idol.

Keith : “Ozzy settled down a lot. I think he knows that, to get farther in this game, he needs us and we need him.”

Ozzy apologized to Jim, Dawn and Cochran.

Jim: “Ozzy finally realizes that he’s got nowhere to go. This whole speech after tribal council about being a free agent? A free agent for who? He’s got nowhere to go except for us. I like having Ozzy on my side. Ozzy helps me win immunity challenges before the merge. After the merge, he is a bigger threat than me. There is nothing more that I could want from somebody on my team.”

Jim sounded more like the sketchy used-car salesman here than the smart strategist. Now that Ozzy’s redemption story is starting, we have to worry where Jim’s story is headed.

Immunity Challenge

Jeff took his first dig (that we heard) at Coach, saying he was already meditating about that reward.
Once more, Edna was the player chosen to sit out the challenge.
Jeff said: “Savaii blows it, Ozzy runs into a post. Dawn and Ozzy have trouble working together.”
After she missed her second shot, Coach told Albert: “No more Mikayla. She isn’t even hitting the target.”
Coach wasn’t hitting the target either but that didn’t stop him.
Jeff pointed out that Mikayla’s technique of using one hand wasn’t working.
Coach asked if she wanted to rest. She said she wasn’t tired. He suggested she use two hands, she didn’t. Coach asked if she would sit out, she didn’t.
Jim and Keith got on a roll, each knocking down three targets and leading Savaii to victory.

Coach: “It’s Mikayla’s fault that we lost. I gave her direction in the challenge today and she wouldn’t take it. If I am going to coach this team to victory then I need people that, in the heat of battle, listen to me. She is a problem. She needs to go home.”

The Reward

Dawn: “Winning immunity and reward could not have come at a better time. We were coming off lots of hurt feelings, lots of drama, so winning was the best feeling.”

Cochran then was captioned saying: “Savaii 6 to the end.”
Is it going to go this way?

Ozzy: “Winning a reward like this brought us back together and it really did make me want somebody from this tribe to win the million…”

Cochran was on screen as Ozzy said this...

...then the camera went to Whitney as either a decoy or to tell us she will be part of the final 3 but this appeared as a big hint that Cochran would win.

Ozzy went on: “I don’t care if it’s me, well I do care if it’s me. I want it to be me but if it’s not me, I do hope that it’s somebody else from my tribe.”

Such generosity should mean something. This is a great indication that someone from Savaii wins and, as we saw right after, Ozzy is ready to take the plunge to see that happen.

Dawn thought Ozzy’s beautiful dive was crazy. She wanted to know if Cochran agreed.
He replied: “I am not physically or emotionally capable of doing that.”
Dawn was heard asking: “You are not a water person?”
Cochran, trying to be funny: “I am a sparkling water person.”

Cochran: “I am generally not that agile so sliding off these mossy stones is definitely outside my comfort zone. But I got into it today because the sweater vest was always kind of this boundary between me and nature. I had to strip it off.”

Dawn was then shown asking him: “Do you think you can do it?” The whole tribe cheered him on when he came sliding down.
The scene continued a while, showing us that Savaii was having fun.

While some may see this as part of Cochran’s journey and nothing more, it was very telling that Cochran was ready to get into it and we saw the whole tribe cheering him on (like they would do after Jeff announced his name as Sole Survivor). Dawn started the scene as the narrator for the reward so maybe she just told us how the season will turn out: Ozzy will take a huge risk and Cochran will be able to use it to his advantage.

Upolu – Day 16

Upolu returned from the challenge to the image of a dead fish, rotting in the sun and eaten by flies. That didn’t look too auspicious for them.

The tribe agreed with Rick and Brandon: “We loss as a team.”

Coach: “We loss the challenge, it sucks. Now we have to come back to camp and do the dirty work so we got to figure out who we are going to vote off: Mikayla or Edna. Neither one of them are part of the original five but Mikayla blew it in the challenge. She doesn’t follow orders so she is going home tonight.

Coach’s words coming after those of Rick and Brandon, show that he isn’t a team player. This is bad on a tribe that has been preaching unity.

Albert had a different take, telling Mikayla that he wouldn’t let Coach and Brandon vote her out.

Mikayla: “We loss the challenge now Al told me that Coach is doubtful about me. It really makes me laugh because these people are talking about strength and you are throwing my name up against the girl who is half my size and almost double my age? You’ve got to be kidding me. It sucks that I am always the one stuck but I definitely trust Al and I hope that, when it comes down to it, he will trust in me.”

Albert talked with Sophie and Rick, saying that, even if Edna was brought in as their 6th, she has no challenge value.

Albert: “If I had to do a Survivor draft and I had Edna and Mikayla standing next to one another, it’s a no-brainer: I’m going with Mikayla 11 times out of 10. On top of that, Edna is a freaking sharp, smart player that is going to be tactful and that is way too dangerous.”

After her scene with Coach where she said she was ready even if the game got ugly and now hearing Albert saying that she will be a dangerous player, I have to reassess Edna’s impact. We are being told to expect some big move from her so the Edna versus Mikayla Survivor draft may have been set up all along: Mikayla told us that she was ready to get dirty when it came to camplife and challenges but the real dirty work in survivor is at Tribal Council and maybe for that we should pick Edna “11 out of 10 times” (sic). What could be her move? I can’t tell yet but I’d bet it won’t be to sacrifice her Survivor life for Coach!

Albert told Rick and Sophie about his concerns about Edna post-merge. They both agreed they had to send Edna home but Sophie pointed out that they had to convince Coach and Brandon.

Brandon told Albert that he wish he could change things and not vote Mikayla out, that he was uneasy about Edna: “She’s got this look on her face like she is playing people and I don’t like it.”

Brandon: “I’m starting to trust Mikayla more because Edna is just acting too too sweet to not be playing us. I don’t know if Edna is fooling me, I don’t know what she’s doing but I don’t trust her but I want to be a radical for God when it comes to doing right, doing good, man! I would rather vote Edna out of this tribe today but I am not going to because I am my word.”

He ended telling Albert and Sophie that he will keep his word to Edna even if it costs him the game.

Sophie: “Brandon actually wants Edna to leave. He likes Mikayla better now. He’s changed his mind. She’s no longer the whore of the tribe now…but he’s still going to vote her out. I don’t get it. He’s nuts, absolutely nuts.”

Albert told Sophie they couldn’t talk strategy with Brandon.

Going to Coach, Albert didn’t have more success. Coach said that Mikayla didn’t listen to him while Edna would have stopped shooting. To illustrate his point, he added: “If, at the merge, we tell Edna: “I want you to follow Ozzy even when he goes and takes a ___ and wipe his ___ for him”, she would.”

This tells me that Edna will indeed follow Ozzy but not the way Coach meant. She will follow him in a Survivor way. As Albert and Coach were talking, we had a close-up of Sophie, eyes to the ground, looking completely dejected. A sign of what awaits this alliance.


Albert: “The reason Coach wants to keep Edna is because he feels she is in his pocket, he thinks she will listen to him in every thing that he says and will follow him blindly to the end. My cap off to Coach for actually having a little bit of strategy in this but, realistically, keeping Edna around is a bad play for us in winning the next challenge and it’s a bad play for me in my end game.”

Can we predict that Edna will be the deciding vote post-merge that will send Albert home? It sure looks like a good bet that she will end Albert’s game because when a player that has been invisible for so long talks about end game it’s to let us see how he will fall.

Coach had a confessional while he talked to Rick about being railroaded: “Number one is getting to the merge with numbers, number two is having somebody you can trust through thick and thin and Edna is loyal. Albert and Sophie might think Edna is going home but I will tell you right now that, if I have anything to do with it, that’s not going to happen”

Rick: “I thought we were going for Edna but then I had a talk with Coach and he wants to vote for Mikayla. So, I don’t know what’s going on.” Albert told the cowboy that the vote was in his hands. “These guys leave me sitting in the middle in this decision so all that does is put a big ol’ target on me. If I send Edna home, I’m going to ##### off Coach; if I send Mikayla home, I’m going to ##### off Albert. You are damned if you do, damned if you don’t. This sucks.”

Tribal Council

Coach said their loss was because they didn’t compete as a team. He added that he told Mikayla to stop and let Albert shoot.
Mikayla defended herself by saying Coach never directly told her to stop.
Edna said that she doesn’t like being kept out of challenges but knew that it’s the way it is for her.
Brandon said that they needed the numbers at the merge so that the next challenge was very important. He spoke out for loyalty.
Albert was more concerned about getting to the merge, worrying about loyalty after.
Sophie agreed you needed numbers at the merge.
Jeff turned to Coach, telling him he had a divided tribe.
Coach went back to his mantra: “Honor, loyalty, integrity.”
Albert intervened quite appropriately: “Loyalty can be faked. You can fake strength. A real good person can con people into believing they are loyal.”
<Edna was then shown, her expression looking impenetrable just like Brandon had talked about>

Brandon then took over: “I am trying to be quiet but I can’t. Last tribal council we talked about loyal, loyal, loyal and this council we are talking about loyal so how come we are split? We all made a pact to have six people that were going to make it, that were going to stay. We chose to keepEdna. I love you Mikayla but I want to keep everybod to their word. There should only be one vote being voted tonight but half of us are on one side, half of us on the other and it concerns me because that is not loyalty. That’s a house divided…Vote me out today if we are going to be disloyal. Money, you can throw in this fire and it’s gone. Character? You will live with it for the rest of your life.”
<That seemed to make a big impression on Rick>
Mikayla tried to defend herself but Brandon interrupted saying he was bound to what he had said.
Going back to Brandon’s wish of being voted out, Jeff turned to Coach who spoke of keeping some cards hidden.
Brandon laughed at the idea that there is such a thing as half a lie because it’s just a game. He called it lasciviousness. “There’s no grey. It’s black or white, period.

Jeff sent them to vote.
Mikayla, not showing any sympathy, voted Edna saying she didn’t know how she got that far,
Albert was also shown voting against Edna saying what sounded prophetic: “I hope it’s you tonight or else we are in a world of pain.” He urged the cowboy to vote for her also.
Edna wished that Mikayla’s time on Survivor helps her modeling career.
(Like Brandon, I don’t know if that was said with sarcasm in mind or plain truth. Edna is tough to read!)

As Mikayla walked off, Coach and Brandon exchanged “I love you”.

Jeff sent them off with a comment on the split vote: “Loyalty, as honorable as it may be, is not always the answer.”

The Story

Up to now, we had been shown Upolu as a N-tribe, following one leader but that was destroyed in this episode. We have received enough clues telling us that even if he reaches the merge with the numbers advantage, Coach will fail as miserably here as he did in the Tocantins. Maybe it will be Brandon’s commitment to honesty that will do him in which would be quite savory, maybe it will be his trust in Edna that will be betrayed or maybe both. After all, we already saw Brandon telling Edna that Coach wasn’t being honest with her. Ozzy declared himself the Free Agent at the start of the episode but, by episode’s end, we had more indications that, in the long run, Edna is the real free agent!

In Savaii, we heard Cochran mention that they will be the final 6 which usually means not all 6 will actually be there but they do seem to be the long term players. From the start, they have been an M-tribe, fractured between all their A type personalities. That makes it more likely that a follower like Cochran or Dawn would emerge as the winner but, in victory, they reunited to form one happy family. It won’t last of course but it seems that it will carry them through the merge.

As for our returning players, Jeff could still say they are heading in opposite directions but each in reverse to where they were heading at the start of this episode!

The Characters

Christine: Her opening episode was very weak so her nice edit since being sent to the island was mostly to keep us interested in the duels. We were given a player to root for and most did. This episode probably ended Christine story because we saw her breaking down for the first time. The editors want us to come to the conclusion that she made a valiant effort, gave it all she could but now it’s time for a player with a story to take over.

Mikayla: With a story filled with Ups and Downs, Mikayla should take over as resident of the island. Despite Coach’s claim that she did nothing for them in challenges, she was key in 2 of their three wins as the recaps reminded us. We also heard a confessional early in episode 1 which was about the returning players and how she appreciated Ozzy. The only way that confessional makes sense from a story-telling angle is if Mikayla joins Ozzy at some point. That can only happen if Mikayla defeats Christine first. Still, the way her edit turned from potential Victim to a Bully herself, with the way she talked about Edna, we can predict that her story with Ozzy will be short.

Rick: The cowboy laments that the tribe’s fracture puts a target on him because he is in the middle. The viewers lament that we don’t care if Rick has a target on his back or not. He is so insignificant to the story that we thought of his decision in terms of how it would affect Coach, Brandon and Edna. Since we have had an underlying theme of voting out the wrong person, it would follow that this decision will come to haunt Rick.

Sophie: From narrating the events on Upolu and how they related to her, Sophie is now limited to talking about the dangers that await her tribe. She told us that Christine would flip and Brandon was nuts. Something bad is looming in her future. Maybe someone worse than Christine will return from RI.

Whitney: She is shown and we do hear her take on the situation but it’s almost background noise. She could very well be the Becky of this final 3 as some visual clues have indicated.

Keith: His role is certainly not an important one but we saw how his words served to bring Ozzy back in line and the two are still close.

Coach: We heard him contradicting his tribe when it came to blaming an individual for the tribe’s loss. We also saw that he was just as bad as Mikayla during the challenge and didn’t stop shooting either. We know he is lying to Brandon despite his pledge of playing like Christian men. He was completely sure of Edna’s loyalty despite Albert and Brandon’s words that she shouldn’t be trusted. He was also very demeaning to “his little friend” out there. All those clouds gathering around Coach are telling us that he is headed for disaster. Anyway, in Survivor, the heat of the battle is felt mostly at Tribal Council and a big part of his alliance wasn’t listening to Coach so how could he lead it to victory?

Albert: If Albert talks about his end game that should tell us that the end is near.

Jim: Of all the Savaii players, he was the only one shown that didn’t welcome Ozzy back into the fold of the tribe with open arms. Jim’s villain edit will grow inversely proportional to Ozzy’s redemption edit. If Ozzy is really playing for Savaii instead of trying to get Savaii to work for him then Jim has no future but to be his antagonist.

Ozzy: It didn’t take long for Ozzy to return to the tribe’s fold and it gave us a new look at Ozzy. His confessionals about building tribe unity and wanting one person from his tribe to win show that the arrogant Oscar is gone and he hit on one of the major themes of the season. He is loyal to his tribe and despite being blindsided by them (not once but twice really) he is still on board with them. That could be perceived as naiveté but, for a player like Ozzy, it came out as redemption. Instead of the player that wanted his team mates to work for him like he did in Micronesia, we saw him working for his team mates much like he did in Cook Islands. Of course, there is still the question of Jeff’s quotes during the challenge, saying he was blowing it for Savaii but he told us the key was to remain calm to the end. Can Ozzy surprise us and win this season? It is a possibility that we have to keep in mind.

Edna: This undeclared free agent could cause a lot of problems for Coach. I believe that she will follow Ozzy after the merge like Coach talked about but not in the way he meant. She will vote with Ozzy against one of Coach’s allies, most probably Albert. Could that lead her to the victory? Again, her stock rose this episode but she has always had a good edit when the story’s orbit came in her vicinity. She would need more attention in episodes that don’t directly involve her as a vote option to really elevate her as a contender. For now, it wouldn’t surprise me that Upolu’s outsider became their last player standing.

The Journey Players

Dawn: Ever since she proved that she was strong, Dawn’s story has settled into a coasting mode. There are no tensions around her, no hooks leading her to the end game. The editors ignored her story by not resolving the question of the two votes she received. Becoming the tribe’s narrator is great for Dawn’s longevity but not good at all for her chances of winning. I noted that, once again, Dawn’s main interaction was with Cochran, once more showing us that, despite everything, she likes him.

Brandon: Despite his claim that he would want to be voted out if the tribe was disloyal, we were shown that Brandon is in for a long journey, a journey of family redemption. When we look back at episode #1, it was quite an editing feat that Brandon’s vote to eliminate Mikayla was perceived as a demonstration of honesty. It’s even more impressive that this episode showed us just how much he was similar to Russell in his demeanor, his walk, his resolve and that he finally got his way with the vote. Coach has already fallen in love with Brandon and the editors are working hard to warm us to him.

Cochran: Like Jim, it is troubling that Cochran was so vocal towards Ozzy. Cochran even told us that it would be better for him if Ozzy remained a cry-baby. However, we didn’t hear his take on the “new” Ozzy which leaves the editors with an opportunity to show Cochran adapting to the new reality. His story would require that we see him changing his opinion in a positive manner after a time of questioning, that he moves closer to Ozzy and distances himself from Jim.

For now, we still see the type of manipulations associated with a winner: He was on screen when Ozzy said he wanted to see someone from his team win. We saw the whole team cheer him on when he finally got rid of the sweater vest and took the plunge. We had been led to believe by the previews that his blunder could cost his team the challenge when the episode showed quite a different story and, finally, he continued to improve, breaking new boundaries. Cochran is on a Journey; one that will lead him to the title of Sole Survivor.


"RE: Episode 6 Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by Belle Book on 10-22-11 at 07:12 PM
I'd prefer to have Edna be the winner, but I could live with her being the last Upolu player left standing if Cochran wins it all and is edited to be a nice guy after all. Incidentally, maybe if her stock rises in the next episodes where she isn't a vote option, then maybe we can see Edna as a possible winner.


"RE: Episode 6 Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by michel on 10-22-11 at 07:47 PM
LAST EDITED ON 10-22-11 AT 09:13 PM (EST)

We'll certainly have to keep our eyes on her, particularly at the start of the next episode. If the discussion is only between Coach, Brandon, Sophie and Albert, it would be bad for Edna but if she gets a confessional about what she's thinking of her "next on the block" status, then it would be great.

"RE: Episode 6 Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by kiki_k on 10-22-11 at 08:39 PM
I think the single most telling thing about John's edit was his saying “I am not physically or emotionally capable of doing that.” after Ozzy did his (in Dawn's words) "crazy" dive -- the only one we saw do a dive like that (we saw Keith do a cannonball into the water from a lower cliff; that's not the same as Ozzy's "crazy" dive). John didn't do the dive; he did the water slide, granted, right after Ozzy "showed" him the way (according to the edit) but which everyone else on his tribe did.

Ozzy is the one physically and emotionally capable of making the big, crazy move that a person who is playing to win needs to do. John is only capable of tentative, tried-before-him moves to buy himself 3 more days in the game.

Now, I'm 100% sure via the edit that Ozzy is the one who shows John how to break out of that tentativeness to start making the moves to win and not just buy 3 more days, but at this point -- until we see just how Ozzy's promo'd "crazy move" shakes out (which we will not until Episode 8, although the edit in Episode 7 should help point it out) -- I think it is too early to tell if it leads to John winning OR if it leads John to be side by side with Ozzy, each helping the other to the finals by their mutual trust & loyalty (another big thing that John will learn from Ozzy -- loyalty), but with Ozzy winning (because if Ozzy's crazy move actually results in such a sweeping redemption that he ends up in the finals, I can't see him *not* winning). IMO, the camera being on John when Ozzy was talking about a Savaii winning could apply in either scenario (i.e, John being the Savaii who wins OR John being the Savaii who helps Ozzy win).

Right now, I'm only fairly certain that the winner is John or Ozzy. Both have a lot of things that need to happen to their edits, at least for me, to make it any more definitive than that. And, as I wrote, most of it is going to depend on how Ozzy's crazy move shakes out.

And I want to revist something from the first episode -- Dawn said Ozzy was "too Bob Marley." She meant it as a slam & I think everyone took it that way. Now, in my mind, Bob Marley is tied to Ozzy this season because of Dawn's comment. I just want to point out that while some see the Bob Marley association with "too laid back, not worried about things enough" (as Dawn meant her comment), Bob Marley is also associated with Unity (OneLove), getting back to nature (rejection of Western materialism) and, most importantly, his very famous "Redemption Song." If you look at Bob Marley that way, no one can really be too Bob Marley for Survivor, especially not Ozzy who is determined on redemption.

"RE: Episode 6 Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by KObrien_fan on 10-22-11 at 08:52 PM
John is only capable of tentative, tried-before-him moves to buy himself 3 more days in the game.

But what is wrong with that?

I know that you don't like John, but look at it from his perspective. The buying himself 3 more days strategy is what he has to work with. If it gets him to the merge, he then flips from being the weakest and a target to being the weakest and a non-threat. He knows this well.

Sandra won the game twice using the same "as long as it's not me" 3 days at a time strategy and it paid off.

John's overall edit, including the musical edit and cues has every indication that he has the passion to overcome that rocky start and make it to the end, and win.

I don't see Ozzy's edit from the start as a winners edit. Given the "I hope a Savaii wins" quote, I think he falls short of the mark but does contribute toward a Savaii winning.


I'm not sure who came first hosting games, you or Tribe, but you are both nefarious! - CTGirl

"RE: Episode 6 Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by kiki_k on 10-22-11 at 09:12 PM
If you take what I wrote out of context with what John said himself about him not being physically & emotionally capable, then I can't really argue with you about it, because that isn't what I said.

What I said is that John only being emotionally & physically capable of tentative moves to buy himself 3 more days is bad when contrasted to Ozzy being emotionally & physically capable of making the big "crazy" moves needed to win.

The exact same edit you see as making John the winner, I see as a Journey player edit. Nothing personal, but my interpretation is just as valid, IMO. But, as I also said, at this point, a lot more needs to happen to both Ozzy & John's edit to convince me either one is the winner.

I'm not going to argue with you about Sandra -- but Sandra was *always* playing to win, not just buy three more days. She did what needed to be done (flying UTR, occasionally putting a bug in someone's ear to get rid of someone, i.e, the Coach boot by Russell; the lie about the fish) but she was never saying in confessionals, like John has said several times "I just want to buy myself 3 more days." Sandra was saying "I don't care who it is as long as it isn't me and I'll do what I need to do to hustle & get my money."

"RE: Episode 6 Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by KObrien_fan on 10-22-11 at 09:18 PM
I hear what you are saying and I am not trying to diminish your opinion. I just disagree that a student of the game of Survivor isn't playing to win, I think that he is. He knows that after the really rocky start that he had, he has got to take it 3 days at a time in order to get the the merge.


I'm not sure who came first hosting games, you or Tribe, but you are both nefarious! - CTGirl

"General editing questions"
Posted by OllieKat on 10-22-11 at 10:16 PM
I have a question about the things Jeff says to a tribe at the end of a tribal council. Are those things he actually says at the time the tribe is walking out or are they recorded later after he's seen the edited episode? Second question is whether or not there is any value in what he says as far as predicting a winner? TIA for any responses!
"RE: Episode 6 Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by kiki_k on 10-22-11 at 11:37 PM
LAST EDITED ON 10-22-11 AT 11:38 PM (EST)

I know you are not trying to diminish my opinion & I'm not trying to diminish yours (I hope you know that). We are just discussing our takes, and I'm 100% cool with that.

As I expand on in post #240 below (please see if you are interested) I really think we are meant to look at/compare John and Ozzy against each other, not necessarily against other players on this or other seasons. They are foils. Complete opposites in every way & meant to be contrasted against one another re: story telling.

"RE: Episode 6 Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by michel on 10-22-11 at 09:19 PM
LAST EDITED ON 10-22-11 AT 09:20 PM (EST)

But you are also taking what John said out of context, In the context that John said those words, he was only talking about jumping off a cliff, nothing more.

Here, we take things out of their context to see what else the editors are telling us. My opinion of it, probably KO's also, is that they are telling us he still has self-doubts that need to be overcome. It's his episode one theme revisited. That's why I don't take it to mean he cannot win. If his opening theme had been that he would do crazy stuff to win at any cost then yes, the out of context interpretation would lead us to a failed edit.


"RE: Episode 6 Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by kiki_k on 10-22-11 at 11:01 PM
LAST EDITED ON 10-22-11 AT 11:24 PM (EST)

Dude, that's not at all the same thing. What we do here as far as looking at the edit does not give anyone leeway to read other posters' post out of context -- I'm not an editor trying to hide my meaning or give you clues. I wrote something specific that was meant to be read together & believed that KO took it out of context so that it lost my original intent, and in turn, asked me to justify something I didn't intend to say. I explained that to her & she understood what I meant by "out of context" -- i.e., that I'm specifically contrasting John with Ozzy as far as their edits go, not John against every Survivor ever to play the game.

And let me add, I think I'm right to do that because John & Ozzy are exact opposites. John is the beta-male, thinker, completely out of touch with nature and physicality. Ozzy, obviously, alpha-male, more spiritual than intellectual, completely at home in the elements (as he said episode 1) and a dominate physical player. They are natural foils and it isn't my "Ozzy bias" that is leading me to compare them against each other, regardless of my being an Ozzy "fan" and regardless of what you may think.

As to your point about how those words mean John wins, I will say this is day what 15-16? -- almost to the half-way point & John is revisiting his day 1 edit? That's exactly why I think it means he doesn't win (I never said "cannot" win, I said doesn't win). I think he should have learned how to be more physically & emotionally capable by now. And I'll say it again: John didn't dive off the cliff, which is what his words in context were referring to. The water slide (the thing everyone did) isn't a substitute for what only Ozzy did, which you are trying to make it.

By the same token, I would have liked to see Ozzy's edit take a turn to Cooks Island Ozzy before this point too. That's why I specifically said I think it is one of them but both need a lot more in their edits to convince me 100% either way.

You & KO might be perfectly right that John is the winner. I never ruled that possibility out. I just need to see more (again, like I said, specifically how Ozzy's big move works out) to feel confident picking the winner based on what we've seen so far from both of them.

"RE: Episode 6 Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by michel on 10-23-11 at 00:49 AM
LAST EDITED ON 10-23-11 AT 00:54 AM (EST)

Dude?

I wasn't talking about what KO wrote but about what you wrote. Saying that John's confessional meant that he is incapable of making moves is taking it out of context. That is fine because that is the essence of what we do here. I was just challenging your interpretation.

I'd even say that Ozzy has never been shown as being able to pull off the crazy moves needed to win. If we remember Yul and Jonathan's discussions in Aitutaki before the mutiny, Ozzy would have been the one that should have stepped off the mat instead of Candice. He was lucky that the mutiny made him Yul's ally. In Micronesia, he was lucky that Cirie was there to tell him it was dumb to go with Joel, that they needed to eliminate Joel instead.

For that matter, I'd say that crazy moves rarely lead to a win!

As for my interpretation of seeing Cochran slide down the cliff, I never said it was the same as what Ozzy did. I said he conquered his fears and the tribe was there to cheer him on. They were his audience much like they would be if he were to win.

Yes, we can see Ozzy and John as opposites but the same could be said of Ozzy and Jim or Ozzy and Dawn if we wanted to push the comparisons. One could even say that Brandon is the physical representation of Coach's character. Honor and Integrity pushed to a limit that even Coach never envisioned. Hypocrisy and Misogyny denied but visible to all. I don't know where it leads us though.

"RE: Episode 6 Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by kiki_k on 10-23-11 at 00:55 AM
LAST EDITED ON 10-23-11 AT 01:25 AM (EST)

DUDE -- I DID NOT say John is incapable of making moves, I SAID he's incapable of making THE SAME KIND OF MOVES that Ozzy is!!

I don't know how many times I can say it.

The fact that you took what I wrote & completely twisted it into "John is incapable of making moves" tells me I should no longer engage in any kind of discussion with you. Honestly, the fact that you reduce my use of the word foil to describe them to "just opposites" is frankly insulting. Besides the fact that, say Jim, isn't the opposite of Ozzy (he's an alpha male & strong physically) isn't even the worst part. A foil is a specific storytelling device in which 2 characters are meant to be contrasted with each other to examine what one lacks as compared to the other --not as compared to everyone else in the story, TO EACH OTHER. Fortinbras is Hamlet's foil, for example, not Polonious (and Polonious & Hamlet couldn't be more un-alike).
Seriously, I just can't with you.

But before I stop with you, I will say this, flat out -- your bias against Ozzy is the problem here, not my alleged bias against John. Ignore contrasting Ozzy & John at your own peril, dude. Because if you are right that John is the winner, it is for the WRONG reasons -- if John is the winner it is because Ozzy was there to *show* John what he needs to do to win. John needs to become physically & emotionally capable of doing what Ozzy can do.

"RE: Episode 6 Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by michel on 10-23-11 at 02:27 AM
Getting hot behind the collar, I see!!


You wrote: "Ozzy is the one physically and emotionally capable of making the big, crazy move that a person who is playing to win needs to do. John is only capable of tentative, tried-before-him moves to buy himself 3 more days in the game."

That's what you said and I simply abbreviated it. You don't think Cochran is capable of making the necessary moves to win. So whatever moves you concede he could make would be futile.


You may be insulted that I reduced your words to "exact opposite" but you did it yourself first. Your paragraph went:

"John & Ozzy are exact opposites. John is the beta-male, thinker, completely out of touch with nature and physicality. Ozzy, obviously, alpha-male, more spiritual than intellectual, completely at home in the elements (as he said episode 1) and a dominate physical player. They are natural foils and it isn't my "Ozzy bias" that is leading me to compare them against each other"

The "natural foil" expression seemed more like an afterthought and didn't make me think of Hamlet. I suggest that, to avoid being insulted in the future, you begin with: "Cochran and Ozzy are natural foils much like Hamlet and Fortinbras". It only needed a bit of editing!


I suggest you look at the Jim-Ozzy opposition: Ozzy himself in episode 1 told us that he lacked the strategic skills to win Survivor but that he hoped he's improve. From the start, Jim has been all about strategy and he is successful at it. And Jim's strategy is to use and abuse Ozzy. Makes a pretty natural foil, I'd say.

As for Ozzy/Dawn, I'll admit it is more tenuous but Ozzy has been Jungle boy from the moment we saw him 5 years ago. The first impression we had about Dawn was that she broke down under the stress of the living conditions. A weak comparison but Survivor is much simpler than Shakespeare.

My supposed bias against Ozzy didn't prevent me from appreciating his redemption story in this episode. And is it bias when we have seen how bad he is at the game's strategy on 3 different seasons now? And he has proven time and again that he is boring in confessional.

As for:

"if you are right that John is the winner, it is for the WRONG reasons -- if John is the winner it is because Ozzy was there to *show* John what he needs to do to win. John needs to become physically & emotionally capable of doing what Ozzy can do."

Now that's funny!

I am not looking for the reason why Cochran will win. I am looking for clues that tell us he is the winner. In addition, Cochran will NEVER be capable of doing what Ozzy can do but guess what? Ozzy, despite all he can do, has never won! Ozzy will win only if he is capable of mentally adapting his game. Maybe Cochran will be the one there to show him what he needs to do!

"RE: Episode 6 Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by SurvivorFan101 on 10-23-11 at 06:33 AM
"Ozzy, despite all he can do, has never won! Ozzy will win only if he is capable of mentally adapting his game."

I actually have to disagree with this statement, as I think strategy will never get Ozzy to end, he's not a strategic gameplayer, he is the provider and challenge winner. I know you hate the element of Redemption Island, but it exists and I think there are now more paths to victory than those laid out in previous seasons. I also feel like he was just as deserving, if not moreso to have won Cook Islands.

I'm not saying I buy that Ozzy wins this season, but I think given the editing thus far his shot at winning is much higher than Cochran's. I feel like from the very first episode Cochran hasn't been portrayed as well as he could be if he were the winner. The last few episodes where we are clearly shown that it was Jim making the moves and having the strategy, not Cochran. The editors of the show could have easily shown Cochran as the mastermind yet they didn't and I don't see much of a journey story there either as he hasn't been likable to me for 1 second of airtime. In addition to all of this, I feel like some of his comments have been a little mean - he called Ozzy middle-aged and a stupid ##### - Ozzy is 30 years old and I highly doubt the average viewer at home was meant to enjoy hearing that comment from him as most of us are middle aged and that doesn't mean 30. I also see he's trying to come off making fun of his flaws, but the funny thing is that we have yet to see one of his tribe mates say anything that was in anyway mean or demeaning to him. I think Papa Bear came the closest in his vote-off episode, but still it was couched in a very nice way. I just see him as a jerk I guess and I will not be happy at all if he wins, he is not redeemable at this point, for me.

"RE: Episode 6 Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by michel on 10-23-11 at 10:59 AM
>"Ozzy, despite all he can do,
>has never won! Ozzy will
>win only if he is
>capable of mentally adapting his
>game."
>
>I actually have to disagree with
>this statement, as I think
>strategy will never get Ozzy
>to end, he's not a
>strategic gameplayer, he is the
>provider and challenge winner.


Then you are disagreeing with Ozzy himself because he said from the start: “I’ve been the guy that’s able to climb coconut tress and hunt fish and I’ve been really strong in challenges but I don’t think I’ve had the best strategy…I need redemption because I feel I haven’t been able to lock my hands on the million dollars.”

>I know you hate the
>element of Redemption Island, but
>it exists and I think
>there are now more paths
>to victory than those laid
>out in previous seasons.
>I also feel like he
>was just as deserving, if
>not moreso to have won
>Cook Islands.

I hate RI from a game point of view. "Fire is life", "the tribe has spoken" used to mean something. It even affects the very structure of the show because the finality, the climax of a person's adventure, happens in the first 15 minutes.

As for editing, it makes our job harder so that's actually good. We have actually done a good job in spotting the players that will return and in assessing their chances of victory.

>I'm not saying I buy that
>Ozzy wins this season, but
>I think given the editing
>thus far his shot at
>winning is much higher than
>Cochran's. I feel like
>from the very first episode
>Cochran hasn't been portrayed as
>well as he could be
>if he were the winner.

I have given you the reasons why I think Cochran will win. It has very little to do with liking him or not. We'll see what happens.

>Ozzy middle-aged and a stupid
>##### - Ozzy is 30
>years old and I highly
>doubt the average viewer at
>home was meant to enjoy
>hearing that comment from him
>as most of us are
>middle aged and that doesn't
>mean 30.

I highly doubt that the average viewer was supposed to take it personally. Ozzy was repeatedly shown sleeping in the hammock and lying in the shelter while Coachran was shown working. Even Ozzy commented on how hard he worked. In editing terms, Cochran was justified.

"RE: Episode 6 Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by KObrien_fan on 10-23-11 at 11:45 AM
I'd have to go back and re-watch the episode to get the exact quote, but the way I heard Cochran say that Ozzy was middle aged was in reference to the game of Survivor. If Dawn at age 40 feels "survivor old" likening herself to Rudy, then a 30 year old would be considered "middle aged" in survivor years.


I'm not sure who came first hosting games, you or Tribe, but you are both nefarious! - CTGirl


"RE: Episode 6 Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by michel on 10-23-11 at 12:08 PM
Just for you, this is the quote:

“Having watched Cook Islands and Fans versus Favorites, Ozzy is a superhuman, mogli-esque guy that can do no wrong but Ozzy has kind of faded into the middle-age Ozzy that has a few moments of glory each day where he runs and gets us some fish but otherwise, he is kind of a lazy ass becoming the arrogant fisher-boy, jungle-boy who feels he can do no wrong and is entitled to our deference. The more he acts like this, it’s going to come and bite him in the ass.”

The interesting thing is that we now have a "new" Ozzy. He has stopped acting like that.

"RE: Episode 6 Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by dabo on 10-23-11 at 04:43 PM
Mowgli-esque
"RE: Episode 6 Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by SurvivorFan101 on 10-23-11 at 01:04 PM
>I have given you the reasons
>why I think Cochran will
>win. It has very little
>to do with liking him
>or not. We'll see what
>happens.

I am sorry if my post came across negatively, I should have prefaced it by saying I really have enjoyed reading your posts through many seasons now and have agreed with many of your assessments.

This season I am not agreeing simply because I don't see the same things in Cochran that you have. Reasonable minds can differ and I was just pointing out that as a viewer I don't find Cochran someone that I can get behind for the win. I personally don't see it.

"RE: Episode 6 Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by Flowerpower on 10-23-11 at 12:30 PM
LAST EDITED ON 10-23-11 AT 12:33 PM (EST)

Michel, as always, I thoroughly enjoyed reading your assessment of the episode. I find myself agreeing with alot of it. I found this episode very pivotal. It has turned the action upside down at both camps. The unified Upolu tribe is now a splintered tribe, with Coach right smack in the middle. I love your thoughts on Edna. I had not really seen what you have noted in the episode. I don't know if she will "sneak" her way over to follow Ozzy or not, but I found the prospect intriguing.

Meanwhile, the previously fractured, "every man/woman for themselves" tribe, Savaii, are now seemingly a very unified tribe. Very dramatic change of events. And, now with all of the speculation from the previews, and Jiffy's touts, as well as the promos and clues, we are all left in a heightened anticipatory state regarding the pre-merge, merge, and post-merge episodes. Well done, EPMB, for building the suspense!

But, just as the editing with the circling vultures up above the Zapatera beach, that picture of the dead fish with flies all around it was a horrible rotting image of destruction and deterioration at Upolu beach, imo. It's signs like this that do point to a positive outcome from Ozzy's impending big move...

For me, it sure seems like the tide has shifted and interesting how Coach and Ozzy are being contrasted in practically every single promo....First Ozzy starts out well, and Coach not so much, but Ozzy resorts back to his provider, lazy, keep the girls around self, while Coach builds a "loyal" stargazer alliance + Edna. Coach apparently has the loyal tribe, while Ozzy is blindsided by his. Now, with the pinnacle point when Ozzy throws in the towel and goes rogue free agent, then has time to cool off and then regrets his move. This is like an epiphany, and now with this renewed commitment to work for his tribe and not just within them, Ozzy is re-emerging as the old hero we knew and loved in Cook Islands....Savaii 6 to the end!

Meanwhile, Coach reigns over Albert and gets Mikayla out, while Brandon guilts Rick into Mikayla out, and Edna in...sure seems like the conflict between Brandon and Coach, the HII, is going full speed ahead. The drama is building and Coach sees it. Will this be his downfall in the game? I think so....

Regarding thoughts on Albert. I agree, I think Albert's number is coming up quickly, in fact I would bet that he'll be the post merge boot.

In fact, with this episode, I have a feeling that thoughts I had after the first episode that didn't seem like they would come to fruition, now may be about to be realized. With Ozzy having such a stellar edit imo, in this episode, and wanting to really be a team player, and diving into the waters, FACE FIRST, eyes wide open, making crazy moves, and warranting comments of awe such as I don't possess the physical or emotional ability to do that from Cochran, I'd say that Ozzy is going to do something radical that will endear him to both Dawn and Cochran. I suspected after ep 1 that somehow Ozzy and Dawn would work together, and finally, here is a sign that it may happen.

Regarding your assessment of the types of tribes, I have one comment regarding the Savaii tribe...From the start, they have been an M-tribe, fractured between all their A type personalities. That makes it more likely that a follower like Cochran or Dawn would emerge as the winner but, in victory, they reunited to form one happy family.. I agree this is a tribe with more alphas, and that a follower is most likely to outlast as the alphas go after each other. Ozzy was a leader by experience, only. In other words he is not a leader by personality. He is not an alpha dog, he's a live and let live, laid back, Bob Marley, as Dawn noted in the first ep. He was never good in the leader role, and with this move, I think Ozzy will work for the group, not lead, dictate to the group. Perhaps Dawn will get to step up soon and be the leader she sees herself being. It would be a very strong group with Dawn leading, Ozzy competing, and Cochran hanging on for numbers, as the under the radar "non-threat". We'll see if something like this comes to be....

My biggest take on this episode was that Ozzy's stock has increased immensely. Where I had no hope of him winning before the last episode, nor did I like him anymore....to the point of not even using my Ozzy siggie. I know see the "old" Ozzy that I loved re-emerge and I have hope once again, that he can get to the end with a small band of brothers/sisters! But, will getting to the end be enough? I don't know. But, one thing I think I do know....someone on Savaii is going to win Survivor: South Pacific!


"RE: Episode 6 Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by michel on 10-23-11 at 01:08 PM
"Well done, EPMB, for building the suspense"

I have to agree that I am surprised by the quality of this season. Maybe the best since China in my eyes. Maybe it has to do with the fact that the tribes alternated visits to Tribal Council but we have had much more balance this time around.

I read your comments about not liking Ozzy anymore and take it as a sign that we have something new, a more daring way to tell the story. Winners are always shown with warts but never to the point of making their fans turn on them. Maybe it's why that Cochran and Jim aren't so likable and Dawn is played down so much. The editors wanted us to connect with these newbies but not to the point we wouldn't reconnect with Ozzy once his story took an upswing. All this to say that Ozzy could indeed be the winner.

"Perhaps Dawn will get to step up soon and be the leader she sees herself being. It would be a very strong group with Dawn leading, Ozzy competing, and Cochran hanging on for numbers"

That would mean that they somehow get rid of Jim. It could be the way the story is going because we've had hints that Jim is soon becoming the villain. It may go something like: Edna votes with Ozzy at the merge to get rid of Albert. Coach tries to use his idol to retake the numbers but Brandon sells him out. Jim, after a few rounds of pagonging, realizes he needs to do something big to take out Ozzy so he makes the mistake of going to Brandon who sells out another player!



Thanks Agman!

"RE: Episode 6 Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by Dangerous on 10-25-11 at 02:08 PM
Some random musings:

1) An interesting exploration of strength versus loyalty, as encapsulated in Jeff’s comments at Tribal Council: ”Do you keep the players who will get you to the merge or do you keep the players who will be loyal after the merge?”

The stronger player, Mikayla, is voted off instead of the weaker, supposedly more loyal Edna. However, some care has been taken in previous episodes to portray Edna as a possibly devious player who will betray the Upolu alliance.

Coach: ”(Edna’s) the one person out here that I think would lay her Survivor life down for me”

The seeds are sown to indicate that Edna will not be as loyal as Coach seems to think. It is interesting to note that Coach frames loyalty as an individual commitment to himself, as opposed to a tribe-based loyalty. This is very much a selfish, individualistic approach to the game, which if my take on the themes is correct, is not a game-winning one.

Given Jeff’s closing comment: ”Loyalty, as honorable as it may be, is not always the answer.”, Albert’s voting confessional seems prophetic: “I hope it’s you (Edna) tonight or else we’re in a world of pain”.

In combination with the “tribe divided” comments it seems very probable that Upolu will come to regret this decision.

2) Tribe unity is once again explored, with the Savaii and Upolu experience clearly juxtaposed in this episode. Upolu is presented as a conflicted, divided tribe. Brandon’s comments at Tribal Council about Upolu being ”a house divided” and that ”we cannot be divided and have loyalty” are ominous for the Upolu alliance. In contrast, despite being conflicted after the Elyse boot, Savaii reconciles at the reward challenge.

Savaii is clearly the tribe to beat. It seems almost certain that the winner hails from a unified Savaii and this is foreshadowed by Ozzie with the following unity-emphasizing quote:”Having a reward like this really brought us all back together and it really made me want somebody from this tribe to win the million dollars….if it’s not me I do hope it’s someone else from my tribe.”

3) The theme of ”It’s not how you start – it’s how you finish” appears increasingly as if it can be applied to Coach and Ozzie’s edit. We’ve seen Coach edited as a strong leader, building a strong, loyal alliance, while Ozzie has been presented as ”Bob Marley” and a ”middle-aged Mowgli”. It seemed apparent that Ozzie was destined for a short stint in the game and that Coach would outlast him and possibly claim the Sole Survivor title for himself. After Ozzie’s editing turnaround in this episode and Coach’s edit becoming increasingly mired in the swamps of hypocrisy and individualism I am wondering if the Survivor editors have been playing a little trick on us. I certainly would welcome it if this is the case. Too much predictability is not a good thing.

I hearken to both returning players’ introductory comments in the first episode:

Coach: ”This time I’ll try to control my sense of self-righteousness and judgment on the others. It’s one more shot for me to prove that I can own this game and that it can be done with honor and integrity.”

As I’ve stated above, Coach appears to be putting individual loyalty to himself above tribe unity and it has led to a divided weak Upolu. He has lied to Brandon (and ironically is called out by him at Tribal Council “There’s no grey….it’s black or white”). His sense of “self-righteousness and judgment on the others” is highlighted by his scathing attack on Mikayla after the challenge. His indignation at the fact that Mikayla cannot “follow orders” is the primary reason that she is sent packing. In contrast, Edna’s value is based on the fact that she will “follow him into battle” and perform distasteful tasks on his behalf. Coach 3.0 is in fact Coach 1.0.

Ozzie:” I've been the guy that's able to climb coconut trees and hunt fish and I've also been really strong in challenges. I don't think I have the best strategy. This time, I'm more mature and I've learned from my mistakes. I need redemption because I feel like I haven't been able to lock my hands on the million dollars. I've almost been there a few times, I haven't been able to finish...

Despite a poor start strategically, with his key allies either being booted or betraying him, can Ozzie learn from his mistakes and outlast Coach? He certainly seems to have recovered from his “hissy fit” and his reconciliation with his tribe and newfound focus on unity demonstrates a maturity not seen thusfar in his edit. While I do not see Ozzie winning, but rather “leading” a unified Savaii to victory, I cannot completely eliminate that possibility.

4) The contenders – Cochran versus Dawn. I must say that I have one leg on the Cochran bandwagon. Increasingly Cochran is shown to overcome obstacles in his experience of the game. His inadequacies are highlighted at the reward, with his discomfort at the waterfall emphasized. However, in a clear sign that he is learning and growing, he ”steps up” and takes the plunge, with the encouragement of others. ”The sweater vest is always this boundary between me and nature – I had to strip it off” Metaphorically Cochran could be considered to be stripping off the obstacles and barriers between him and the Survivor experience – perhaps the Sole Survivor experience?

However, my other leg is still in the Dawn camp (although it is itching) – I still am breathing the fumes of her first episode edit. Dawn however needs new obstacles/antagonists else her story is in danger of becoming the ”journey edit”, supporting the ultimate winner (Cochran). The next two episodes will be crucial in assessing her chances.

"The Dog that didn't bark..."
Posted by Krautboy on 10-23-11 at 11:46 PM
LAST EDITED ON 10-24-11 AT 00:12 AM (EST)

This season the editors have been surprisingly direct with the clues and foreshadowing from week to week. We have had very few surprises in terms of who gets voted out or wins challenges each week, and the reason for each weeks votee has been clearly set up in the previous episodes.

This season reeminds me of Survivor:Outback, when Colby, Keith and Tina made it to the end, but the Ultimate Survivor was hidden from us for much of the game. Tina was "the Dog that didn't bark", and this season feels like we may have a similar situation unfolding.

We have several main characters that demand the spotlight and make for interesting television, but who are probably all part of the smokescreen. Coach, Brandon, Ozzy and Cochran have all got interesting stories, but they also all have fatal character flaws that will probably be their undoing in the game of Survivor.

This week, we were finally introduced to Rick. His introduction featured him at the center of the Upolu vote, the swing vote who decided who went home. He is well positioned for a long term run in the game. A solid member of the Upolu 5, and able vote with either Albert and Sophie or Coach and Brandon. He has not alienated anyone and it appears that his development as a character will start after the merge.

Rick may be this season's dog that didn't bark...



Krautboy

"RE: The Dog that didn't bark..."
Posted by tribephyl on 10-23-11 at 11:53 PM
Tina?
"RE: The Dog that didn't bark..."
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 10-24-11 at 07:11 AM
LAST EDITED ON 10-24-11 AT 07:16 AM (EST)


Yeah, Tina was the only person who didn't speak in the opening episode - each of the other 15 contestants did. The show was dominated by outsized personalities -- Kimmi, Skupin, Alicia, Varner, Jerri, Keith, and we had Colby winning most of the challenges himself. Meanwhile, Tina was controlling the whole thing behind the scenes but we were shown little-by-little of what she did until it all started to fit together by the end and we realized exactly what had gone down.

ETA: Rick did have a couple of confessionals in the opening episode - one was about not liking Coach and making fun of the "Dragon Slayer" and the other was this: "I'm 51 years old, I run my own ranch in Utah. If you didn't train to get here...run, learn how to make fire....you better just spit into the wind..."

"RE: The Dog that didn't bark..."
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 10-24-11 at 07:41 AM
Dog that didn't bark was back when Burnett edited the show. He and Jeff have very different approaches. Burnett liked to obscure the true alliances so as to surprise us, but Jeff likes to show what is going on.

Long ago there was an interview where Jeff talked about their differences.
Jeff's vision is running the show now.
Mark is more engaged with other projects.

I don't think we will see a return to the type of Agatha Christie edit of a couple early seasons.

Jeff likes male players, and typically if a male doesn't get confessionals, he is not going to win. Look at what they did with Benry in Nicaragua. Invisible in confessionals, although visible in challenges. A solid F7, but we never knew what was in his head until his boot episode.

Even with Burnett, the winners that weren't featured a lot were women, and Jeff has continued that pattern. Rick probably finishes respectably on the jury, but they will hold back on his storyline until his own struggle to stay in the game comes into play. As they have done with Albert, and last season with Grant. The 3 episode arc, give or take a little.

Keith is another one who, as a strong male, started off too weak to be a winner. He too will finish in the jury, but he may never do a lot. Like Grant, he fits in the slot of guy in dominant alliance who is too inoffensive and strong in challenges to be allowed into the finals.

I will hold out some hope for a cross tribal betrayal and not a pagonging, but it's not as common when there's no swap.

If Ozzy wins this thing, the next time they do returnees, the newbies ought to vote them out first no matter what. Boston Rob, Rachel winning Big Brother, then Ozzy?

I still like Dawn as a finalist.

"RE: The Dog that didn't bark..."
Posted by michel on 10-24-11 at 07:02 PM
Totally agree with you here OFG. In fact, one could argue that the strong young man winner that had the quietest first 4 episodes was Brian.

As for women, most have had little visibility, Jenna, PI Sandra and Parvati being probably the only ones to rival the guys.

"RE: The Dog that didn't bark..."
Posted by michel on 10-24-11 at 07:33 AM
This is what the editors told us about the Upolu tribe:


Maybe it was only about its stargazer alliance which would leave Edna with a chance to win but Rick? No.

"RE: The Dog that didn't bark..."
Posted by Flowerpower on 10-24-11 at 09:03 AM
Thnaks for posting that picture, michel. That's exactly what I was talking about....this picture could be the beginning of the end of the Upolu tribe....it's a VERY ominous sign, imo. We will have to watch for more signs of "rotting" away start to appear there.

It reminds me of shots like this that started to spell the end for Zapatera...


"RE: The Dog that didn't bark..."
Posted by Corvis on 10-24-11 at 10:51 AM
You got me thinking, Krautboy. While I don't know that I agree that Rick is getting Tina's edit (the big deal with her edit is that she wasn't really in episode one but I don't think she could be described as hidden after that first episode), it occurred to me that there is a winner who had a similar edit early on - Bob from Gabon. Bob had some confessionals in episode one:

(from Veruca's editing thread)

"I teach high school physics…"

"I got a lot of stuff running in camp; it’s common sense, I’m from Maine, that is what we do in Maine."

And they kind of remind to Rick's confessional:

"I'm 51 years old, I run my own ranch in Utah. If you didn't train to get here...run, learn how to make fire....you better just spit into the wind..."

And then, similar to Rick, he went under the radar for a while.

Rick's other confessional in episode 1 was about not being a fan of Coach (which is why I was surprised he sided with Coach and saved Edna). I wonder if Rick has some buyer's remorse about that and ends up flipping on Coach later on. That could be how he gets to the end with the Savaii tribe (who in my mind will make up most of the end game players).

"RE: The Dog that didn't bark..."
Posted by michel on 10-24-11 at 06:49 PM
True but everyone was talking about Bob, saying he was amazing. We also had this image in episode 1 of Bob with both arms raised as if already in victory while standing on the shoulders of Marcus and Ace after he had finished working on the shelter's roof. Rick isn' Bob.
"RE: The Dog that didn't bark..."
Posted by Corvis on 10-25-11 at 08:58 AM
That's a really good point. I do remember a lot of positive comments about Bob early on from other Survivors.
"RE: The Dog that didn't bark..."
Posted by Krautboy on 10-25-11 at 12:54 PM
Rick has been hidden by the editors up to this point, but we know he is part of the core Upolu alliance, he is one of the "Good Ol Boys", and from the vidcaps he appears to be Coach's right hand man, working quietly in the background...This last episode we saw that he was also smart enough not to cross the irrational members of the alliance (Coach and Brandon), while at the same time explaining his actions to the rational members (Sophie and Albert).









Rick's only confessionals before this episode were EP1 when Rick talked about not wanting to see Coach's egg bleed blue, because he was in his forties and later making fun of Coach's Dragonslayer nickname. Since then however, Rick has worked well with Coach and positioned himself at the center of his alliance. He is the swingvote as his confessionals this week showed...in the end Rick may be the one to slay the Dragonslayer.



Krautboy

"RE: The Dog that didn't bark..."
Posted by dabo on 10-25-11 at 03:31 PM
A dog that didn't bark winner edit is an interesting idea, though it would of necessity be different from the Tina edit in S2. Which player it would be would, though, emerge in the post-merge game, so it would be too early to call. Examing the remaining players at this point:

Albert: Possible. He was in the background initially and only emerged in the last two episodes.

Brandon: No. Has received too much attention.

Christine: Possible. The RI twist puts attention on her, but we haven't gotten much from her outside the duels lately.

Coach: No. Has received too much attention.

Cochran: No. Has received too much attention.

Dawn: Possible. Emerged early with an emotional problem, resolved it, came to the fore in the weight-bearing challenge, won it, otherwise shown to have her head in the game.

Edna: Unlikely. On again off again edit, she's trying to play the game but her social game only goes so far.

Jim: Possible. Shown to be a player, has a consistant edit, hasn't been receiving the attention he should be getting considering how well in control of Savaii he has been up to this point.

Keith: Unlikely. A consistant edit shows him to be a follower not a leader, without a villain as a foil his game has nowhere to go.

Mikayla: No. Has received too much attention.

Ozzy: No. Has received too much attention.

Rick: Possible. Low-key player, stays on the periphery, emerged last episode when he was put in the middle and forced to take a position. That decision determines the rest of the game for the Upolu.

Sophie: Possible. Consistant player in terms of positioning herself, the alpha in the Albert-Sophie pair.

Whitney: Unlikely. Very much in the background, emerged as the mastermind of the throwaway vote, apparent alpha in the Keith-Whitney pair, but most likely to just quit. (Not that I think there will be a quit, just that from what little we've seen she would be most likely to just submit to defeat.)

"RE: The Dog that didn't bark..."
Posted by Krautboy on 10-25-11 at 07:32 PM
Ozzy appears to be emerging as a hero, although maybe a Martyr, while Cochran and Jim have taken a turn to the dark-side with more villan-like edits. No one has received a clear winner's edit the way that Boston Rob did, so that's why we should consider winner's edit that may not be all that heroic or strategic.

Tina won because she rode along with Colby, and in the end benefited from Colby's mistake of not taking Keith to face the jury.

This season's winner may be another "Dog that didn't bark", and
as dabo points out, Albert should also be considered a possibility. He and Rick have had very similar edits, and are in very similar positions in the game. Their stories have just recently started to emerge...

Coach appears to have surrounded himself with a whole pack of "Dogs that didn't bark"!



Krautboy

"RE: The Dog that didn't bark..."
Posted by Belle Book on 10-25-11 at 08:42 PM
Including Edna, I hope. However, I'd have to discount Brandon as a "dog that didn't bark". His story is front and center.


"RE: The Dog that didn't bark..."
Posted by michel on 10-25-11 at 09:37 PM
If we were to consider the possibility of Rick or Albert winning, they would have to fit in a theme. We have not heard anything about staying quiet or under the radar or not standing out in order to win.

Take Marquesas as an example where we did have a UTR winner: In that season, it was quite noticeable how many nicknames were being used and how many players were voted out just for standing out, starting with Peter. Vecepia was the only one that was always called by her name (or simply Vee) and to avoid standing out. That was the clue to her win.

What's the clue to Rick's win? His total absence of story? If it is then we may as well close up shop here. Remember; when Tapewatcher posted his "dog that didn't bark" spoiler it was because Tina, from total absence in the premiere, had been shown as a very important character by the merge episode.

"RE: The Dog that didn't bark..."
Posted by SereSurvivor on 10-26-11 at 08:34 AM
LAST EDITED ON 10-26-11 AT 09:49 AM (EST)

Qoute: "it was because Tina, from total absence in the premiere, had been shown as a very important character by the merge episode."

Checkmate-(IMO)
next Topic of conversation ?

"RE: The Dog that didn't bark..."
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 10-26-11 at 11:58 AM
I would argue that Tina didn't "ride along" with Colby, but rather that she initiated a lot of the boot decisions and she developed a strong rapport with Colby so that he ended up preferring to take her over Keith, instead of thinking of it as a Colby mistake to take her over Keith. I do think it was a mistake for Colby to do so, but Tina won because she maintained relationships in a way that most of the others didn't so in my book she has fully earned the win instead of backing into it like several others may or may not have done (Lamber, Vecepia, etc.).
"Episode 7"
Posted by Slider on 10-28-11 at 10:32 PM
The theme is definitely redemption this season. We have been hit over the head with it, especially this episode. I feel the winner will have to have redemption. Of the remaining players, this is how I see the edit.

Coach - spoke of redemption, but edited (probably accurately) to be selfish. Shown to be insincere in prayer and childish in actions. Doesn't fit the redemption edit.

Sophie and Albert - I like them, they seem to be getting along with others and rational, but they are in the minority, often silent, and don't seem to have enough of a story to be redeemed at this time.

Rick - Voted with Coach. No story.

Edna - Not shown to be valuable, hanging on to Coach. Not a favorable edit, but still surviving.

Brandon - Has been redeemed a little, I actually felt a little sorry for him this last episode. However, has been shown to be so irrational, it would be a stretch to redeem him.

Whitney - Not enough of a story to be redeemed.

Keith - His story has been hidden, other than to oppose Ozzy's plan.

Jim - Came out strong, but nothing from him lately. I really thought we'd here from him on this plan, maybe that he'd instigate it. Doesn't look good for him.

Dawn - Overcame the first few days. Has been a rational, dependable team player since then. Does fit the redemption edit.

Ozzy - Has overcome the lazy, self-serving edit to be the ultimate team player. In edit, he has been redeemed. He even talked about redemption.

Cochran - Did not show any growth or maturity this episode. His entire edit, although meant to be humorous, has been about his inadequacies and insecurities. Has not shown redemption edit.

At this time, the only players with enough story to fit the redemption edit are Ozzy, Cochran, Dawn, Coach, Brandon, and possibly Edna.

Of these, only Ozzy and Dawn have been shown to overcome obstacles, with Brandon showing promise and Edna hanging on.

I don't see how Coach can change.

If Cochran is going to win, he will have to be redeemed. Flaking out on going to Redemption Island, when compared with Ozzy's sacrifice, made him look too weak to win. He will have to make some heroic moves to overcome this edit.

I know a lot can change, there is still a lot of game to play. However, I feel that the winner will show some kind of redemption edit at some point, and it may be too late for some of them.

Still new at this. Would love to hear from some of you!

Slider

"RE: Episode 7"
Posted by Dangerous on 10-29-11 at 01:15 AM
Very interesting thoughts Slider. I agree that we saw redemption emphasized quite heavily this episode, particularly from Ozzie's perspective, which ties in smoothly with his initial confession.

Cochran had an interesting edit - we were definitely hit over the head with his failures. However, in a broader story arc of redemption I would expect his shortcomings and wekanesses to be highlighted, setting us up for an even more dramatic story of growth and redemption. If anything, this episode made me more suspicious that this season may end with Cochran as Sole Surivor. I do think that the next two episodes will be key in determining if Cochran is the winner, if Dawn (my early pick) will prevail or if we have a surprise, out-the-box contender (i.e. Ozzie) emerging.

"RE: Episode 7"
Posted by dabo on 10-29-11 at 02:08 AM
Coach: Agree, he is a selfish player trying to stay in control and over-playing it.

Sophie and Albert: A solid couple worth watching, they are definitely playing as a unit.

Rick and Edna: Outnumbered and playing the what is best for me game.

Brandon: tool.

Whitney and Keith: thanks for playing, good luck and no hard feelings.

Jim and Dawn: Keep in there!

Ozzy: DAW

Cochran: Lucky to have survived so far, the underdog of underdogs.

"RE: Episode 7"
Posted by Flowerpower on 10-29-11 at 06:35 AM
Welcome Slider. I'll just jump in here with a few thoughts. Ozzy, imo, has come full circle. He received a horrible edit after the start of the show. This was a stellar episode for him, sacrificing his survivor life for the chance to advance his tribe has moved him into the hero catagory. But, is it enough to win? I hope so, but it wasn't in Cook Islands. Redemption is a theme, and Ozzy fits that bill. Cochran could epitomize redemption as well later, but so far, he has not redeemed himself. He is the "anti-Ozzy", so it would appear.

I also want to note the theme of loyalty. Ozzy fits that theme as well. But, in a game where loyalty is the key, Edna is shining more and more.....fwiw....

"RE: Episode 7"
Posted by kiki_k on 10-29-11 at 01:41 PM
I agree -- Ozzy could have come full circle & already gotten the redemption he was seeking OR he is on the upswing on his redemption which does lead to the win.

Ozzy really has been the one actually talking about redemption the most (Coach has said it a few times as well, but not nearly in the same vein as Ozzy). First episode's title was Ozzy's "I need redemption." After the Elyse boot he brought up "redemption" (as in redemption island) and later spoke of redemption within his tribe for how he acted. The promos before the last episode showed the clip of Ozzy again saying "I came here for redemption." (or some such). When he told John he should be the one to go to RI he characterized it as a chance for John to "redeem" himself for causing them to lose. Ultimately, he asked his tribe to send him to RI because he wanted to redeem himself (prove his loyalty) and keep his tribe strong. Maybe Ozzy *needs* not just redemption in the large sense, but specifically "Redemption Island" to win (which he didn't have in Cook Islands).

If the themes this year truly are redemption & loyalty, Ozzy's been hitting the jackpot lately in both. Is his story over or just beginning though?

"RE: Episode 7"
Posted by SurvivorFan101 on 10-29-11 at 02:28 PM
>Maybe Ozzy *needs* not just
>redemption in the large sense,
>but specifically "Redemption Island" to
>win (which he didn't have
>in Cook Islands).
>
I think you just sealed the deal with this idea myself. Redemption Island is a way for a player like Ozzy to win the game. The longer he is on RI, the better his chances I'd say. Anyone leaving the game has no ill will towards him and has 1 on 1 bonding time with him as well - if he can be there with 5 jurors, the game is his I'd say.
"RE: Episode 7"
Posted by kiki_k on 10-29-11 at 02:40 PM
LAST EDITED ON 10-29-11 AT 02:46 PM (EST)

Well, he'd still need to win the (2nd)F5 & F4 ICs too, so that's a long way off. His edit on RI (barring a total IC run in the game, I don't see him not going there again at some point) should indicate which it is.

eta: Plus, Jeff *did* say he liked Ozzy's move of going to Redemption Island because it was a move "by someone playing to win."

Jeffy has shown a propensity to enjoy "giving" the outcomes to us, so there is that too, FWIW.

"RE: Episode 7"
Posted by SurvivorFan101 on 10-29-11 at 02:47 PM
Exactly, he needs to be sent back to Redemption Island soon I'd say for this scenario to come to fruition.
"RE: Episode 7"
Posted by Belle Book on 10-29-11 at 06:46 PM
He also likes Ozzy in general, so I would take it with a grain of salt or at least consider that your interpretation is more due to your liking Ozzy so much and wanting things to turn around for him. Personally, I think that if he returns to Redemption Island he has a chance of winning at least one duel but I'm not sure he can get all of them, return to the game and win enough Immunity Challenges to make it to the Final 3!


"RE: Episode 7"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 10-29-11 at 07:13 PM

>eta: Plus, Jeff *did* say he
>liked Ozzy's move of going
>to Redemption Island because it
>was a move "by someone
>playing to win."

Worth keeping in mind that "liking Ozzy's move ... because it was a move by someone playing to win" doesn't necessarily translate to "actually winning the game". Jeff has liked a lot of people and moves over the years but they haven't all translated into wins.

"RE: Episode 7"
Posted by Krautboy on 10-29-11 at 07:05 PM
Great point SF101! Especially if Ozzy faces the jury (which in the case of a Savaii Pagonging would be majority Savaii) siting next to Cochran the traitor or any of the Upolu who pagonged the members of the jury...If Ozzy gets to the final Tribal Council by way of Redemption Island, he is almost guaranteed the million!


Krautboy

"RE: Episode 7"
Posted by kiki_k on 10-29-11 at 01:23 PM
I agree with all of your points.

I will add some on the religion theme on Upolu.

For me, the most important thing you noted about Coach is the insincerity of his "religious" edit. Usually when we see "religion" on Survivor it is a positive thing for the edit of the person associated with it (Matt last season). Coach's is completely negative, IMO. Unlike Matt, who prayed for strength to face whatever "God's will" sent him; Coach is praying for HIIs, winning challenges & money. I'm not an Internet Atheist so take it from me, the contrast between how religion was associate with Matt is vastly different from how it is being associated with Coach. I really see this as a downswing from what had been a relatively positive edit (for Coach) back to Tocantins (even with the opening shot of him doing T'ai Chi in the water & praying saying "I'm not worthy"). I had been thinking Coach had a good shot at redemption & loyalty (the two themes this year) but after this episode I'm doubting he can recover.

Brandon is also associated with religion & again, it is negative, not positive like Matt, with his misplaced/perverted "Deliah" references to Mikayla. He, as well, was praying for HIIs and challenge wins.

On Upolu, the only one who came out positively for me with the religion was Sophie for voicing her concerns over the foolishness of praying for HIIs you've already found. At this point, I see her as someone who can emerge post-merge as a potential winner.

"Episode #7 Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by michel on 10-29-11 at 05:50 PM
LAST EDITED ON 10-29-11 AT 06:05 PM (EST)

I am sorry for starting a new curl but this thread is big enough that it is becoming hard to follow. I think a new episode needs a fresh start. Maybe Veruca could open a new one if the merge is coming next.
This is what I saw in this episode:

During the recap, we heard that Christine had become a force to be reckoned with…
…and she was dangerously close to winning her way back into the game.

At Savaii, Ozzy was on the outs with his tribe but after a big win, they all kissed and made up.

At Upolu, Mikayla was the only person not in the alliance of 6 so Coach wanted to vote her out but Albert and Sophie wanted to get rid of Edna.

At Tribal Council, Brandon erupted, making it the third council in a row where he suffered a meltdown but despite the outburst, Mikayla was sent to Redemption Island.
With the tribes now even and a merge looming, the outcome of the next immunity challenge could change the game.

The biggest revelation in this recap comes from Jeff throwing Albert and Sophie under the bus. Coach’s special bond with Edna wasn’t even mentioned. In fact, Edna had become a full member of the alliance, not just a vote in Coach’s pocket. The implication is that Albert and Sophie wanted to betray her. Brandon words of “Vote me out today if we are going to play disloyal” take on more power in this shortened version because they implicate directly Albert and Sophie. Also, we have to note that Rick’s pivotal role was ignored, as if we should simply erase it from our memory.

Christine got her first recap mention so that prepared us for another win but this could be as close as she gets.

In Savaii, we weren’t reminded that Ozzy himself decided that his tantrum was over. It was only the win that got credit for reuniting them. The omission would be cause to worry for Ozzy if he wasn’t going to have such a strong episode.

The last thing to note was Edna’s smile as Jeff said that a merge was looming. The hints that she will play some sort of role in the way the tribes break down at the merge continue.

Stepping Up

Upolu – Night 16

Edna: “It’s not a good thing to have your name come up on the vote every single time that you are at Tribal Council. Is Brandon’s reaction and unpredictable nature a liability? Yes. Definitely. If he continues this way, he is making my job here on Survivor easier by just being himself.”

Rick also was worried about Brandon’s next “blow apart”.
Coach assured him that he would be kept under control.

Coach: “If there comes a time when Brandon becomes a liability, just like ol’ Lenny in “Of Mice and Men”, there comes a time when you have to put a bullet in somebody’s head. In this game it’s kill or be killed.”

This is quite a telling scene. First, for Edna we note a very quick change of role: From a potential Victim, she became Brandon’s next antagonist. These words are very similar to those used by Cochran in describing Ozzy but the difference is that Ozzy was targeting Cochran while Brandon had just saved Edna. Instead of gratitude, viewers witnessed disloyalty. That isn’t a good sign for Edna. Sure, it reinforces the possibility that she will show just how smart a player she can be but it won’t end well for her.

As for Coach, we had just heard that Brandon was “definitely” a liability. Edna had used the same description of Brandon yet Coach is still waiting for the time when he will become that liability. Coach is definitely one step behind and it will cost him. “Lenny” will not be the one to get the bullet in the back of the head this time.

Duel Arena

Without any preparation, we were at the arena where we saw that Ozzy and Cochran represented Savaii while Albert and Sophie witnessed the duel for Upolu as Christine and Mikayla walked in.
Ozzy and Cochran shared a surprised look when they saw Mikayla.
Jeff didn’t waste any time, an indication of Mikayla’s little importance in the season.
Albert’s encouragements and advice to Mikayla didn’t escape Ozzy and Cochran’s attention.
After a close call, Christine won the duel.
When Jeff told Christine that she was becoming a legitimate force in the game, Christine replied that she has always been a legitimate force.

If Albert is an indication then we can expect that Upolu will not be able to hide their strategy at merge. Sure, Ozzy and Cochran could imagine that it was all a trick to fool them but Ozzy will soon learn all of Upolu’s secrets from Christine.

Ozzy: “Christine has been on a hot streak, She has won 5 duels in a row. If we do merge, she could go to the other side or she could come with us. People are thinking that the merge is coming after the next challenge so, if we lose the next challenge, it might be worthwhile for us to send somebody to Redemption Island that could beat Christine and come back in the game and even out the numbers. You got to make big moves in this game and, if we have to, that might be a big move worth making.”

Now we see that the comment that Ozzy made which cost Elyse the game had been misunderstood. He didn’t mean that Coach would be smart to get rid of Albert, he meant Coach would be smart to send his strongest ally to Redemption Island just to beat Christine. It’s also quite notable that, even if many players lost by making big moves, there isn’t any indications that Ozzy’s plan is dumb. The editors didn’t use a weird musical theme to accompany his confessional and there were no visual effects to make us think he would fail either.

Savaii

Before getting back to camp, Ozzy and Cochran talked.
Ozzy: “We are on opposite poles but still on the same side of the loop. We should help each other.”
Cochran ageeed.

Ozzy: “I wanted to let Cochran in on my worse case scenario plan.”

Cochran: “The general sense around camp is that a merge is happening sooner rather than later and now Ozzy has suggested that he would be willing to make a pretty bold move in the event that we lose our next immunity challenge. He is considering lending his hidden immunity idol to somebody else on the tribe, let himself be voted out so he can be sent to Redemption Island arena and duel against Christina and then hopefully win, come back to our tribe and keep our numbers intact, a 6-6 tie going into the merge. Ozzy seems to have gone from this bitter free agent temper tantrum throwing cry-baby of a few nights ago and turning into a new man. If Ozzy was being honest, if he is willing to fall on his sword for his tribe, that would be great for me because it means I wouldn’t be going home at the next tribal council.”

This would be the first in a series of confessionals where Cochran would talk about Ozzy’s move and quickly turn it into a selfish view of the plan, telling us how great it would be for him, that he wouldn’t be on the chopping block anymore.

Upolu

With a camera hovering above the beach, we realized that Coach hadn’t stopped doing some Coach things. In his prayer, he kept repeating that he wasn’t worthy
That makes our job easy when people eliminate themselves!

Coach: “This tribe is down in the dumps. We feel after the vote last night, that we are divided, we feel that we blew the challenge, we need a shot in the arm. We need something to boost our spirits. The only thing we can do is say: “Look guys, we’ve got the immunity idol. Go team! That’s what we have to do. There are ways within ways in the game of Survivor to survive.”

It needs to be noted that, immediately after Coach’s praying session, a beautiful rainbow was shown above the Upolu camp.

That is something to keep in mind before we completely dismiss this tribe. It doesn’t necessarily mean that the winner is on this beach (Galu also saw a rainbow) but we have to consider the possibility.

Coach assembled his tribe and gave them a pep talk, saying they needed to find the idol.
Brandon joined in telling everyone about the clue.

Coach: “Right now only Sophie, Albert and I know that I have the idol. People like Rick, Edna and Brandon want to find it so we got to pretend like we just found it.”

He gathered everyone in prayer, asking for rejuvenation for the tribe, help to find the idol and a victory in the next challenge.

Sophie: “You know that whole prayer thing… as long as I’m not the one speaking the prayer. I find Coach to be a little more questionable when he is the one saying God, help us find the idol when he already has the idol in his pocket. It gives me a bit of an ickey feeling.”

Coach: “Sophie and I went to retrieve the idol and lo’ and behold! It was two for the price of one. Tree mail had rolled up on our doorstep and now we are going to roll up victory in the challenge.”

Coach and Sophie returned to camp saying they had two pieces of great news.

Brandon: “We all said a prayer and asked God to help us find the idol and we got tree mail but not only did we get tree mail but we found the idol not five minutes after we had been done praying. It’s definitely an advantage having the Big Guy upstairs on your tribe.”

Immunity Challenge

When Jeff mentioned that the story of Jack and Jill has a connection with survivor, that he needs his sister to survive, we saw Keith putting his hand on Dawn’s shoulder.

Does it indicate something for the future? Will Keith need Dawn’s help to survive? Will she be there? Or should she worry that he won’t be there for her?

Jeff told us that Cochran was on rope management for Savaii and that didn’t go well. Savaii had taken the lead but “Cochran, having some trouble…Cochran…is all tangled up now…Upolu takes the lead, big malfunction for Savaii…Savaii has lost a tremendous amount of time…Ozzy and Whitney continue to struggle, Cochran was in charge of hooking them in and he did not do a good job.”

As soon as Jeff declared that Upolu had won the challenge, Coach started screaming for everyone to get on their knees to give thank while Ozzy showed his anger and frustration

Cochran: “Before the challenge, Ozzy had reassured me that, if we lost, Ozzy would say send me, Ozzy, to Redemption Island and come back to restore our numbers but after I lost the challenge, it seems like that plan went out to window. I knew immediately that I was the next target. I really did feel like crying but I stayed as strong as I could and put up with it.”

A Night at the Movies

Edna: “This reward and immunity is so important for our team and we celebrated.”

Coach: “I love Adam Sandler…there was a message and it was family comes first and it was a great message for us to be reminded… because it will get tough. There will come a time of compromise but we have to be uncompromisable as a unit, unbreakable and that’s what our tribe is and now we will be ready to play the second half of this game.”

Savaii

Cochran : “We get back to camp after this devastating loss which I guess apparently I caused. You know, I always felt like an outcast on my tribe but this was a real huge… this was a new level of ostracism. It felt horrible. The high that I have been experiencing from the knowledge that I wasn’t going home in any event; I was safe. No one was going to vote me off. That evaporated instantly and I knew immediately that I was the next target.”

In front of the tribe, Ozzy told Cochran that he had cost them the win.
Cochran said he should be held accountable.

Ozzy: “It’s a risky move to send Cochran to Redemption Island. It’s a riskier move to send me to Redemption and have the merge be delayed one more challenge. Cochran volunteered to go to Redemption. It’s going to be his chance to redeem himself.”

The whole tribe then told Cochran that they believed he could do it, that the key was that he believed it.
Ozzy added: “You got to believe in yourself.”
Cochran appreciated the words of encouragement but Dawn interrupted: “It’s not words of encouragement…It is time to redeem.”

Cochran: “Basically, it comes down to, instead of sending Ozzy to Redemption Island, the Trojan Horse, to shock everybody in a merge and destroy Christine and even the odds, they are sending the court jester and I don’t know what I am supposed to do apart from doing a funny little dance or shaking my hands around in a comical manner, it’s not going to win the challenge and it’s probably not going to get many laughs so I don’t know what they are hoping for.”

Ozzy added: “Feel it in your heart: You can win, man! You can win!”
Jim and Dawn also said he could do it, Dawn even saying that he needed to push fear out.

Now isn’t that a great hint that Cochran can indeed be the winner! It goes straight to his original theme except now he is the only one that isn’t ready to let go of those negative thoughts. The others see him as being capable.

Cochran: “Everybody was on board with voting me off and what made it worse was that they all had this weird Kumbaya rationale for voting me off that only confirmed their idea that I should go. I am terrified. I don’t need to be the hero at Redemption Island. I don’t need to be the person that saves my tribe. I’m not here to be a hero. I’m here to make it as far as I can, whether it means slithering on the ground or whatever. I don’t want to shine right now; I’m willing to shine later. And maybe not to shine at all: I just don’t want to go to Redemption Island.”

Cochran did make them laugh by saying: “I don’t know if I could pull off the whole “I am indestructable so you better be shaking in your boots, you stupid bitch”.

During the night, we shared in Ozzy’s dream.
(It reminded me of Shambo’s dream!)
The next morning, Cochran and Dawn were talking, Dawn mentioning once more that Redemtion Island should be taken litterally: “It’s to redeem yourself.”

Ozzy: “Yesterday, before Cochran cost us the challenge, I told him that I was willing to sacrifice myself, willing to go to Redemption, beat Christine and get back in this game and give our tribe an edge. Last night, I had some crazy dreams about actually doing what I said I would do. I had to bring the idol out of my hiding spot so that everybody actually knows that I do have it. Everybody thinks it’s Cochran’s opportunity to go to Redemption Island and that he should go to redeem himself but I came to redeem myself so it’s my opportunity really. The questions is: Will the tribe go along with my idea?”

When Ozzy said he should go, we heard Jim asking: “What do you think Cochran.”
He answered: “I agree with people that it should be me but I don’t have as much confidence in myself that I will do well.”

Cochran: “Ozzy comes waltzing into camp with this pearly necklace around his neck saying “vote me off, send me to Redemption Island”. Ah! It was like the Gospel. I could have died right there. The announcement by Ozzy that he should go to Redemption Island was met with some opposition so I don’t know what’s going on right now and it’s creeping me out.”

Keith: “Ozzy is talking about going to Redemption Island but I won’t agree with it. What worries me most about the plan is that the merge is not going happen like we think it will. We are only as strong as our weakest link and that is Cochran. So, if Cochran is left to pull the rest of the weight that Ozzy left behind then I don’t know really how much hope we have for another team challenge.”

Jim agreed: “If we are wrong about there being a merge after the next Redemption Island, the biggest deal would be if we have another challenge and we are down Ozzy so, all of a sudden, Dawn is our third guy, Cochran our fourth guy. Scary position to be in.”

Tribal Council

Ozzy started by saying there were a lot of emotions and finger pointing, mostly towards Cochran.
Cochran explained that he panicked when he saw that Dawn and Keith’s ropes were all tangled up.
Jim said he saw the frustration in Cochran’s expression.
Cochran said he was usually calm, cool and collected but this was a new, heartbreaking experience. He added: “We are going down in numbers but we are hopeful that Redemption Island will work in our favor in some way.”
Dawn explained they were hoping the person voted out would come back, leaving them 6 Upolu and 6 Savaii.

Jeff was a little confused: “On the one hand, you are saying: Cochran, Cochran, Cochran. Why is he going to put his life on the line if you vote him out?”
Ozzy replied: “The thing about it Jeff is that I am putting my life on the line…I saw my chance at my own redemption which has been haunting me since the last time I played…This time, my heart and my gut is saying: Get you’re ass to Redemption Island and prove to your tribe that I am worth keeping in this game. This is my opportunity…to play the biggest, craziest game that I want to play. I don’t only have the opportunity but I have the idol.”

Jeff was interested in that: “You have the idol..and this isn’t news to anybody? So what do you do with the idol?”
Ozzy: “I give the idol up. This is the part where it gets interesting.” <With his eyes almost falling out of their sockets, Jeff was showing his interest> “I’m going to tell Christine that Cochran, the little, smart weasel that he is… found the idol, kept it from us. We go to vote him out, he whips up the idol: See ya later Ozzy. Not only is Cochran the villain but he is now the double agent. I think that gives us the best shot at taking them by surprise and possibly getting in front in this game.”

Jeff simply asked: “What if we don’t merge tomorrow?”
Ozzy, recognizing the possiblity said: “At least, I go out on my terms.”
Jeff countered: “If you don’t win the duel tomorrow, you go out a bigger fool than you did last time.”
Ozzy accepted the possibility.
Keith said he had been the most vocal against this plan, saying it was Cochran’s time to redeem himself.
Whitney said that they wouldn’t be at their 100% without Ozzy in another challenge.
Jim was equally worried about another challenge.
Jeff sent them off to vote, wondering if they had the courage to pull off their big move.

Cochran’s voting confessional as interesting: “22 seasons of Survivor and I have never seen anything like this and I am thrilled to be a part of it, especially if it means saving my ass for one more tribe. Thank you.”

When Jeff paused for the idol, Ozzy joked with Cochran, saying he had changed his mind. They agreed the idol would go back into Ozzy’s hands the next day.
Ozzy raced off to the well wishes from his tribe.

Jeff was beaming: “You made one of the biggest moves in the history of this game based on one big assumption; that the merge is next. We will find out soon enough if you were right.”

Preparing us to see this stupid/iconic move work, we heard Christine falling for the first part of it; the story that Cochran used to idol to send Ozzy to RI.

The Story

With Upolu appearing as one big family, united under the rainbow (one of God’s sign) we could very well be seeing the redemption of this tribe and of Coach. However, we know that there are still fractures in this tribe and a loose canon ready to expose them. Worse for them, we don’t really hear long term plans. It’s always about Brandon and how to deal with him. Anyway, we have seen them savoring the taste of victory much too early. The second half shouldn’t go as well.

In Savaii, we have seen those long term schemes from the start. Maybe they did make a big blunder because we knew that Christine was going to side with them no matter what but there wasn’t any hints that Ozzy was supposed to be viewed as a dumb players. We didn’t see any snakes slithering on the ground ready to eat its prey or heard crashing cymbals indicating that this was about to blow up in the returning player’s face. The editors have used their influence to make us feel sympathy for this tribe so it follows that they will succeed.

The Characters

Christine: Her story most likely reached its conclusion now that she received her due from Jeff who called her a force in this game. Christine’s only hope, editing-wise, is that we heard someone telling Ozzy that they didn’t know if he really does have better odds to beat her. Upolu’s fall isn’t totally dependant on Ozzy’s return but the overall story has been leading us to expect it.

Rick: This could have been the episode where his story arc began: Rick had been the deciding vote in the previous Council so we could have expected to get into his head during this episode but all we heard were his worries about Brandon’s next blow-up. I’d say that it means he doesn’t get voted out immediately after the merge but he will follow soon afterwards. It’s very possible that Christine will tell Ozzy that Rick is a good guy and that Albert and Sophie are the schemers, the ones closest to Coach, the ones to target first.

Albert: Now that his small role as Coach’s antagonist vanished, Albert didn’t get a new one. His thoughts about losing Mikayla weren’t deemed worthy of airtime so Albert’s peremption date is approaching. The recap told us that he had been disloyal to the alliance of 6, Stacy told Ozzy that he was Coach’s right hand man, so his story is over.

Sophie: The recap threw her also under the bus and she lost her narration role to Edna so there isn’t much left to say about her.

Edna: An early confessional was necessary for her future but the excerpt we heard was terrible for her chances of winning. She took over Mikayla’s role, being the one concerned about Brandon instead of being grateful for his help during the last Council. Edna needs friends but she went after someone that was on her side. In a season where loyalty is a theme, we are led to believe that her move will be against her allies which can’t lead her to victory,

Coach: The first tribal prayer served to repair a fracture in the tribe and it allowed Coach to take care of the grey area concerning the idol. However, we heard Sophie telling us that it felt ickey. That feeling grew even more during their second prayer. Coach’s pressing demands that they get down on their knees was going completely over-board. Coach was also shown doing his famous Coach things; meditating alone by the beach, complete with special effects. Coach told us he wasn’t worthy and the events will probably show us that he was right!

Brandon: He keeps giving his trust to Coach, fooled into thinking that their bond is based on total honesty but we keep seeing that Coach is walking a tight-rope over the grey area. Brandon doesn’t allow any grey areas; his world is black and white as he told us. What will happen when Coach’s grey zone gets revealed? Seeing him resting peacefully while Coach was planning to do to him what George did to Lenny made it very clear that Brandon wouldn’t become Coach’s Victim.
In episode 2, Coach said: “It’s either going to be Coach duped once again in this game or it’s going to be redemption for the Hantz family.” The funny thing is that the story seems to be going in the direction of having Coach duped because the Hantz family will be redeemed: Coach fooled by someone more honest than him. At this time, I see Brandon outlasting all the other Upolus.

Whitney: We still don’t get the chance to know Whitney so, if the story does go in Savaii’s favor, we continue to expect seeing her in the F3 but losing the vote.

Keith: He served to put doubt in the outcome of this episode. His words made us think that there was a possibility that Ozzy would receive the same treatment as Shawna: Kept safe only for the benefice of the alliance even if he wanted to be voted out. As such, it made me think that Keith wasn’t thinking a few moves ahead.

Jim: The same myopic view was attributed to Jim and he served to put doubt in the outcome of the big move. What is bad for Jim is that he lost his role as the tribe’s strategist. That crown meant nothing. This episode put Jim in a box without foreshadowing that he can get out of it: If the move fails, Savaii and Jim are in trouble, if the move succeeds, Ozzy and Cochran have their hands on the wheel.

Dawn: She did have some comments that tied her to the Redemption theme but those were mostly to serve Cochran’s story, not hers. She has become his “mom” and his cheerleader. Her only ties to the end game come from her episode 1 meltdown but just staying strong and making it far is enough to satisfy her story arc.

The Case for Ozzy:

The first step in a case for Ozzy is to assume that he will win the duel and that the merge is coming next. While it isn’t a certainty, I will make that assumption. Candice made a similarly bold move when she mutinied but Candice had been shown as doing it for love instead of strategy. JT’s dumb move could have worked but we had been prepared to see, even enjoy, his mistake. Here, we don’t have this set-up. Also, even if the merge hadn’t been originally scheduled for the next cycle, Jeff’s eyes told us that he was ready and willing to change the “script” right there and then!

In episode 1, Ozzy told us that he needed redemption but his early portrayal made even his ardent fans think that Ozzy was over the hill. In one episode, Ozzy connected his story to all the major themes of the season and to his own. He said he wasn’t a strategic player but suddenly we see him pulling one of the biggest moves ever. That move showed his total loyalty to his tribe, he was forced to step up and show that he was a good team mate. After a rough start, his story has considerably improved.

Will Ozzy win Survivor South Pacific? Well, still have to consider…

The Case for Cochran:

On the surface, this was simply a terrible episode for Cochran. As a rule, a winner doesn’t get called out after a bad performance in a challenge. Here, Jeff was relentless, putting the full blame on Cochran and the whole tribe agreed. Worse, in a season of team work, Cochran ended most of his confessionals saying how Ozzy’s plan would benefit him personally. We should scrap our idea that he will turn out to be the Sole Survivor…except:

The whole tribe told Cochran that they believed he could do it, that the key was that he believed it. Ozzy said all he had to do was believe he can win and he will. That goes directly to his personal theme: What I have to do is focus on the positive, visualize success and get these negative thoughts out of my head.” We should also consider that Cochran said he accepted resposibility and the consequences of the loss. Ozzy said it: “Cochran volunteered to go to Redemption”. It was Ozzy’s determination that saved him, not Cochran’s lack of courage.

Even his own smarmy confessional can be seen as a preparation for his future redemption: “Everybody was on board with voting me off and what made it worse was that they all had this weird Kumbaya rationale for voting me off that only confirmed their idea that I should go. I am terrified. I don’t need to be the hero at Redemption Island. I don’t need to be the person that saves my tribe. I’m not here to be a hero. I’m here to make it as far as I can, whether it means slithering on the ground or whatever. I don’t want to shine right now; I’m willing to shine later. And maybe not to shine at all: I just don’t want to go to Redemption Island.”

If we take it negatively, we see that Cochran is truly incapable of winning, that he can only crawl to the end. However, that is also a way to outlast. From the start, those that didn’t see Cochran as a winner acknowledged that his edit was certainly good enough to be that of a “Player on a Journey to Prove himself”. Right now, even his journey would fail so we have to expect redemption. If he shines later, he will win.

There’s even a funny comparison with Stephen in Tocantins that could be made: Stephen was the mastermind as the editors clearly told us but the players never saw it. They gave all the credit to JT. Here, the editors have given Cochran some credit but attentive viewers know that first Jim and now Ozzy have done the strategic thinking. However, we see, through Christine’s reaction, that the players consider him as the smart player that religiously watched every episode. In addititon, by choosing him as his double agent, Ozzy is giving Cochran the key to the future plans. That could be good enough to get the necessary votes.

Finally, we have to consider Whitney: If she really is being kept invisible because she is in the F3 then Ozzy is certainly not the winner. Ozzy, especially after this move, wouldn’t need an invisible player for the audience to admit that he is a worthy winner. The same could be said of Dawn. If Whitney is invisible because she is a F3 loser then the winner cannot be a big Fan Favorite, just an acceptable one.

(Yes, Becky was invisible despite Yul and Ozzy being fan favorites but Becky had some interesting early confessionals establishing her as Yul’s second in command. What is Whitney’s role? Following Keith. Keith isn’t like Yul, speaking for two!)


"RE: Episode #7 Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by Belle Book on 10-29-11 at 07:01 PM
LAST EDITED ON 10-29-11 AT 08:02 PM (EST)

I'm still holding out hope for Edna.


"RE: Episode #7 Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by michel on 10-29-11 at 07:33 PM
How is that not a spoiler?
"RE: Episode #7 Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 10-29-11 at 07:43 PM
Belle, could you please edit your post? No spoilers or impressions that you might *know* something is to going to happen are allowed in this thread.

Michel, if Veruca isn't around over the next few days, I'd be happy to open up a new thread starting on Wednesday with a link to this thread - we're only halfway through with a presumed merge to come and we're up to 280+ posts already.

"RE: Episode #7 Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by Belle Book on 10-29-11 at 08:04 PM
I just edited it. Thanks for the warning.


"RE: Episode #7 Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by michel on 10-29-11 at 09:17 PM
Thanks Pepe.

As for opening a new thread, it's a question of etiquette. It has been Veruca's thread for 15 seasons now so I'd want to see what the others are thinking.

"RE: Episode #7 Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 10-29-11 at 09:53 PM
I agree, but the thread is becoming rather unwieldy and Veruca hasn't been around since this thread was set up. If Veruca doesn't reappear over the next few days, somebody's got to set up a new thread to keep the discussion going without clogging things up.
"RE: Episode #7 Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by Dangerous on 11-01-11 at 11:39 AM
Very good analysis Michel. You are making a believer out of me wrt Cochran.

The following quote resounded with me: “Everybody was on board with voting me off and what made it worse was that they all had this weird Kumbaya rationale for voting me off that only confirmed their idea that I should go. I am terrified. I don’t need to be the hero at Redemption Island. I don’t need to be the person that saves my tribe. I’m not here to be a hero. I’m here to make it as far as I can, whether it means slithering on the ground or whatever. I don’t want to shine right now; I’m willing to shine later. And maybe not to shine at all: I just don’t want to go to Redemption Island.”

At superficial analysis this appears to be an indication of Cochran not being willing to step up and confront his fears. Yet I believe the editing may be leading us to a place where Cochran steps up, confronts his fears, focuses on the positive and ultimately shines. Rather than being a death knell for his chances, I believe this quote sets him up for an ultimate redemption story arc. Will it lead to being the Sole Survivor?
I'd say there is a good chance - let's see how the story develops.

"RE: Episode #7 Editing Thoughts:"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 11-02-11 at 07:57 PM
Going against the grain here, but I disagree completely with the notion that the winner must find redemption. Editors will push that theme hard to justify the twist, regardless. They will indeed make redemption arcs out of the flimsiest of material.

But -- whoever won, won. That person may not have needed redemption. Editors might have to redeem OTHER players.

"RE: Supercilious Pomposity "
Posted by SereSurvivor on 11-03-11 at 02:50 PM
LAST EDITED ON 11-04-11 AT 06:54 AM (EST)

<[BR>Cochran, really, really? (I married an "Ozzy")
Coach? Dawn (Weepy)? Cochran? Anybody seen my Raid?
I'm oooout......

"RE: Supercilious Pomposity "
Posted by dabo on 11-03-11 at 03:39 PM
LOL. Survivor has never actually been about survivalism, it's a game in a contrived situation resembling survivalism at best.
"new thread"
Posted by dabo on 11-04-11 at 00:07 AM
please continue discussion on the new thread here

http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID2/7777.shtml