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Original Message
"Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by vince3 on 04-13-11 at 07:14 PM
Please keep details on whatever the heck they plan on doing this week while Matt waits for the visitors to his shelter on Redemption Island show up...

Only one thing we know is guaranteed, Jiffy is almost gonna get nailed by Rob's tile SMASH!

Table of contents
Messages in this discussion
"Previously..."
Posted by vince3 on 04-13-11 at 08:03 PM
Matt returned from Redemption Island and the tribes were merged.... However, Matt wasn't sure if he would return to the Omes or defect to the Zaps...

Natalie took the Immunity Challenge.

Rooster played the HII for Mike, but it turned out to be wasted, since Matt got return blindsided...


Redemption Island Day 21: Matt blames himself for getting fooled AGAIN. He's mentally beating himself up as he talks to God about what's next for him...


Short Intro, commercials.

"RE: Previously..."
Posted by Travel_Queen on 04-13-11 at 08:05 PM
poor Matt!
"RE: Previously..."
Posted by Brownroach on 04-13-11 at 08:18 PM
They're sure playing up the pity angle with Matt. And the religious angle is more like an anvil.
"RE: Previously..."
Posted by byoffer on 04-13-11 at 08:08 PM
Did Matt just try to quote GW Bush??

"Fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Ya fool me... ya can't get fooled again!"

So Matt may be the most naive player on Survivor ever, but he is still smarter than the former POTUS.

"RE: Previously..."
Posted by Nume on 04-14-11 at 06:46 PM
I dont think he meant to quote GW Bush . It was an old Chinese idiom long before he messed it up lol. Matt at least said it correctly, saying "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
"RE: Previously..."
Posted by Flowerpower on 04-13-11 at 09:53 PM
The Intro..."
Last time on Survivor:
Sarita drops out of duel, Matt seizes the moment and returns...Rob and the Ome's had a narrow advantage, 6-5, but Ralph had the HII. At the IC the situation improved for Rob when his closest ally won, Natalie wins. Matt doesn't want to flip, Matt trusted Rob again, a 2nd blindside, Matt is going to RI, forgiveness not on his mind...

RI, night 21, he's congratulating himself for being the only person to go to RI twice, shame on me, I got blindsided twice by the same people....I'm a moron, God wants him to come back, so here he is, I trust you, if this is your will, you are using my stupidity, thank you for your glory and blessed be your name...practically NO Survivor music...they must have ALOT to do tonight!

"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by Brownroach on 04-13-11 at 08:11 PM
Ashley may be in trouble. She didn't tell Rob that Ralph approached her. Natalie ratted her out.
"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by michel on 04-13-11 at 09:04 PM
Quite the contrary: It's the best thing to happen to her story.
"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by Brownroach on 04-13-11 at 09:36 PM
I was describing what was shown, which was that Rob plans to get rid of her.
"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by michel on 04-13-11 at 09:40 PM
I was asking myself why it was shown, especially in an episode apparently so full of important things to show that we had no intro.
"Post Intro"
Posted by Flowerpower on 04-13-11 at 09:54 PM

Murlonio~ Day 22

Steve noting it was a smart play by them, David says, "don't say them", it was Rob...David says it was genius, a mob hit...up walks Rob, Mike tells Rob that it was a brilliant move, he hated it, but brilliant. Julie says that it was cold blooded, do you not have any feeling for a human being, when people like that are playing the game there's no breaking their loyal shield.

Rooster is asking Ashley if he's in the chopping block, he says that if you save me, I'll vote for you if you are in the top 3....they say it's too early, Rooster says how can we play a game, if we don't know where to start...Ometepe on the beach and Rob says don't talk to them without someone else there Rob says that the Ome's are closer together, separate shelter, separate eating time, it's us or them and we are going to be arrogant about it, I'm not, because I want their votes at the end of the day....

Nat to Rob, in the woods and she tells him Rooster has told Ash that he would vote for her, about Ash and Rooster.... he'll vote for her, Rob says that Ashley said she wasn't going to tell Rob...Rooster is going to vote for me, Rob tells her that Ashley is not going to be there now, you could have made it to the end, but now you aren't, it's my game, I'm in charge....you need to tell me EVERYTHING!!!

To the challenge...Phillip and his hawk feather...the challenge...dig to get club and smash tile, next head in trough, with water, crawl under trough and spit water - first three to fill move on....TC then RI where Matt waits...

1st 6 move on to next round....Grant, Rob, Hello, Rooster, Mike, David, Julie

Next round, first 3 to next round...Grant and Rob doing good job, Mike is third...
Grant very fast in this challenge, Grant very close, Mike very close, Grant moves on, Mike moving on, one spot left, DAvid moving on to the final! YIKES

A puzzle...from the first challenge, it's the block challenge from the first challenge...Grant and Mike....Grant wins! Goes right to Rob for a hug! Wow, Grant CAN do puzzles!

"Murlonio, Day 22"
Posted by vince3 on 04-13-11 at 08:15 PM
The Zaps half of the tribe discuss the post-mortem about Matt's re-blindside at TC...


Julie called it coldblooded as Rob and his girls relax in the shelter... Rooster wants to know if he's next up to be chopped with the girls, but they won't tell him one way or the other...


Rob huddles up the Omes about their game plan: Don't talk to the Zaps alone, use the buddy system. Us vs. them. Separate shelters, separate eating times, etc... have them don't talk to the Zaps... so that the Zaps vote for him instead of other Omes... Natalie squeals about Ashley getting asked by Rooster, and since she didn't report to Rob: Ashley won't make it to FTC...


Immunity Challenge, and Phillip tries to explain his feather.


Dig up a club to smash a tile. Top 6: Dunk head into tank, take water, crawl under tank to spit into cup. Top 3 solves a 3D puzzle....

Round 1: Grant, Rob, Rooster, Mike, David, and Julie advance.

Round 2: Grant, Mike, and David advance.

Round 3: Mini version of the first Challenge's puzzle... Grant wins Immunity!

"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by Brownroach on 04-13-11 at 08:15 PM

Grant wins first immunity.
"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by Brownroach on 04-13-11 at 08:23 PM
The Zaps think the flag moved so they think there may be an idol and start digging. Rob and Co. come running over. An idol is not found.

Mike and David are the potential targets.

"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 04-13-11 at 08:27 PM
Note to self:
no reward for double tribal cycles!
Misdirection with the idol dig ... no clue in circulation.
"Murlonio, Day 22"
Posted by vince3 on 04-13-11 at 08:28 PM
Zaps are digging around a moved flagpole after they discuss trying to talk to them...


They decided to screw around with them as the Omes now use shovels to re-dig there... Paranoia runs wild... Rob's worried since he got punted by an Idol in HvV...


They poll the members for who to get rid of... Mike/David/Rooster are possibilities... and do they have or can get a possible re-hidden HII?


TC time. Phillip's feather brought good luck to the Ome's and here comes another Phillip spiel... Seating at TC: Zaps on the left, Omes on the right, Rob in the middle....

Phillip likes it on the bottom of the Ome tribe pecking order... Phillip feels like he's family, Julie comments that Matt felt like family too... Rooster thinks maybe he'll find a feather tomorrow... and Phillip spiels rounds 2, 3, 4, ... etc.


Zaps: Who's gonna go out? One of us, that much we figure...


Time to vote! Steve shown voting for Phillip.

Jeff heads to tally them up.

Wanna play a HII? No movement.

Da Votes: Phillip, Phillip, Phillip, Phillip, Phillip, Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike. All along tribal lines.

Mike joins Matt on Redemption Island.

Halfway through the show.

"Post Challenge #1"
Posted by Flowerpower on 04-13-11 at 09:56 PM
Wow, Grant was amazing with that spatial puzzle, he was really rocking it, totally SMOKED David, and Mike came in second!

Heear thunder...Steve talks about the close IC, Mike says it will be one of us unless we can pull a hail Mary...Now they are looking for another HII, just randomly. Rob has them on lock down, He is like a prison guard, Phillip runs up and he's looking where they were digging, David says, lets play with them...Phillip gets the shovel...David says that Mike and I looked under the flag, but the Mariano crime syndicate dug 3 feet under the flag....they are playing with them, Mike says the Ometepe all came running back, he thinks Rob thinks that they have it.

Rob says that he can't shake this idol paranoia, it killed him the last time, so he believes there could be another one in play. He says it could cost him his survivor life...now who are they going to vote for, who has the best chance to beat Matty...Rob has to gamble, get your buddy as they move out....it's either Mike or David...

To TC, see Phillip with the feather...Phillip your prediction that your feather would bring luck to one of the Omes at the challenge, his full indian grandfather came to him, blah blah....Mike, you have 5, you are in trouble now...David, of this six, who's on the bottom...Phillip. Phil says he loves being on the bottom, he has a new family, they all pat him on the back, Julie says Matt thought you guys were his family too...

Ralph...

Phil says it takes courage and determination to get a feather...Ralph speaks back. Mike says that it's an insecurity thing that Phillip needs the feather, Phillip says he's in the secret service, David says he sounds desperate, they are really getting down on Phil....can't vote for Grant...Steve votes for Phillip, he's one odd duck, brother....the camera keeps focusing on David....

Votes:

No one plays an idol...

Phil
Phillip
Phil
Phillip
Phillip
Mike
Mike
Mike
Mike
Mike
9th person out, Mike
Now to RI, where you will have a chance to get back in the game. Clear that the former Zap are on the wrong side of the numbers so you have to find a way to keep digging to stay in the game...

Wow, the Zaps were really mean to Phillip, I thought...

"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by Brownroach on 04-13-11 at 08:29 PM
They are discussing Phillip's feather at TC.

Phillip gets 5 votes. Mike is out.

Ralph voted for "Philite."

"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by michel on 04-13-11 at 09:09 PM
Isn't it dumb to vote for the one that they perceived to be on the bottom? They wanted Phillip to leave the Omies but they vote against him? Crapatera is dumb.
"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by Brownroach on 04-13-11 at 08:35 PM
Interestingly they did consider who could beat Matt at RI. That's why David was considered.

Rob wants Phillip for his F3.

Phillip is quite aware of how Rob is probably thinking.

"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by Brownroach on 04-13-11 at 08:37 PM
Next Ic.

Only Phillip and Steve eat.

"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by Brownroach on 04-13-11 at 08:39 PM
No immunity for Rob, he's out.
"Murlonio, Day 22"
Posted by vince3 on 04-13-11 at 08:42 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-13-11 AT 09:35 PM (EST)

Rob tells Phillip that he's at the top of the alliance, and Rob's happy that he's behaving and obeying his orders... He declares in confessional that Natalie/Phillip are in Rob's Final 3.


Phillip realizes that he's a good goat right now for the FTC...

Rooster wants to make inroads, David tells him that they've got only one shot to make inroads... Don't do something stupid...


Phillip shuts game talk down with Rooster and such... and arguments continues...


Immunity Challenge #2!

Food temptation! Everyone will have an opportunity to feast on cheeseburgers!


Hang from a bar for as long as you can. After 20 minutes it's legs only.

White rock and black rock... Show black to play. White to eat.

Phillip and Steve are gonna eat, everyone else is gonna play! (Will this come back to haunt Steve?)


Everyone else is hanging out. 26 burgers, huge bowl of fries. Rob almost instantly loses his hat.

Rob's in the drink. 20 minutes have elapsed, so it's now legs only.

Julie drops. Grant and Rooster drop almost at the same time. 45 minutes have elapsed. As long as your hands don't touch the bar, you're still in it... David drops! Only Omes left, so they discuss who's gonna win it, and it's Andrea who'll take the necklace!

"RE: Murlonio, Day 22"
Posted by michel on 04-13-11 at 09:11 PM
This challenge went against the whole spa girl edit. Not only they didn't eat but they won the challenge.
"RE: Murlonio, Day 22"
Posted by Flowerpower on 04-13-11 at 09:58 PM
Rob tells Phil that he was a soldier, and he then whispers that you are not at the bottom. Rob thinks that Phil is becoming a very loyal soldier that it's good for me, Rob is very happy that Phil is doing as he's told and he'll be rewarded for it. Phil is not really crazy, he's a little crazy, he's thinking about his end game, Confessional: Rob says Phil is his number one, Natalie and Phillip are coming with me...

Phil: Everybody thinks that Phillip is naiive, everybody wants to stand with me at the end, knowing Boston Rob he wants me. I know it, I am smart, I have to make something happen, but today is not the day for that...(WOW, Phillip really does have his number!!!)

David says you get one chance to talk to them...Dave tells him not to do something stupid. Phil says the tribe that sticks together stays together. Rooster is talking to Phillip.David is listening...Andrea is there too, Ralph says this is a game, David says they are not willing to play the game, no garuantee he's not next on the list...

Challenge: Everyone has a chance to feast on cheeseburgers...Hang from the bar for as long as you can, after 20 minutes must hang from your legs only...can take a white or black rock...keep this secret till I ask you...black rock means I am playing, white means I'm eating...2 people opting to eat, Phillip and Steve.

In positions, and Phillip and Steve are at the table, eat....burgers and fries, Rob loses his hat. Steve says they are amazing....Rob is struggling to get comfortable, Rob is out...sits in inhaling distance. Phillip says that David's head is turning blue, Jeff asks think you will be friends with david after this is over? David says, best friends.

20 minutes, legs only....Julie is out...Grant out, Ralph out, David is the last one of the Zaps against the 3 Ome women, up there 45 minutes. It's about will power, David is hanging by one leg, Rob tells the girls to keep it up, and David falls, They let Andrea win....Phil congratulates David, good job. Andrea is feeling pretty good. The spa girls ROCKED IT!!!!

"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by Brownroach on 04-13-11 at 08:42 PM
Julie Grant Ralph all out.

David and the three Ome girls left.

Phillip razzing David, he's out.

Andrea wins.

"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by HitmanPayne on 04-13-11 at 08:44 PM
WOw. I randomly guessed Andrea for the 2nd IC, and I somehow got that right. I actually thought David might have that with that triangle hold locked in so tight!
"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by michel on 04-13-11 at 09:13 PM
Trapeze artists use both legs so I liked the girls' tactic better.

"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by Brownroach on 04-13-11 at 08:46 PM
Steve has been low profile so he's probably safe. Ralph and David are likely to be the choices post-commercial.
"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by Brownroach on 04-13-11 at 08:49 PM
Grant is his own man and will eat fish despite Rob's orders.

Actually Rob is considering David vs Steve.

"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by Brownroach on 04-13-11 at 08:51 PM
Phillip gives another hilarious Stealth speech at TC.
"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by byoffer on 04-13-11 at 08:56 PM
Stealth-R-Us
- Rob is the Mentalist, full of strategy
- Grant is the Destroyer, destroying the aspirations of the other team
- the girls are the Three Degrees

Too funny.

A couple of interesting comments at TC from the Zaps:
- Julie comments that Rob is like a cult leader, which seems to get some ire from Rob.
- David comments that Redemption Island may be a better place than being in the game. I am not sure that I agree, but an interesting comment (would running the tables at RI be a better end-game strategy than sitting and getting pagonged?)

"Murlonio, Day 24"
Posted by vince3 on 04-13-11 at 08:55 PM
Was day 23 TC?

Rob's happy that his alliance won Immunity again.

Rooster inspects the nets on the rocks, and lotsa fish! Rob says, if they're dead, you can't eat them... Julie figures that Rob doesn't want any of them to eat from the Zaps... Grant gets to taste some of the fish anyways... David realizes that there might be a cult-like situation now for the Omes...


Steve says aloud that he might not last much longer... Rob says he's done a mercy kill/vote on occasion, right?


Back at Tribal Council, and back to the Phillip spiels... and it's *facepalms* aplenty as he goes on....


Steve figured that he might not be long for the world, so that's why he ate... We get the cult accusation from Julie and David wonders if it's better to now advance at this point through Redemption Island where you can control your own fate better....?


David puts down Rob's name 4 times hoping it counts for 4 votes... ain't gonna...


Da Votes: Rob, Rob, Rob, Rob, David, David, David, David, David, David.

Mike, Matt, and David are now occupants in some form or fashion at Redemption Island. Only 3 Zaps remain: Rooster, Julie, Steve. Other than that, it's the 'Stalth R Us' Omes...

"Next time on Survivor:"
Posted by Flowerpower on 04-13-11 at 09:03 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-13-11 AT 09:10 PM (EST)

Phillip takes issue with Steve,as he sits on the cliff with his feather. Then, we see them back at camp, "If you don't start none, there won't be none, but if you start it, I am going to finish it", he's telling him that's what some white men like to take a black man and make him crazy, and you know what I have to say about that, You are crazy!

David says the last few days have been crazy, every time the wheels start to spin, and I start to be able to play the game that brakes get put on it by somebody else...knock knock, who is it, David, David Murphy....hear Matt say, WHATTTT? What is Survivor doing?

"WHAT the HECK???"
Posted by Flowerpower on 04-13-11 at 08:55 PM
vince, your killing me!

Murlonio, day 24, a SNAKE, Phillip says what a great job they did. Rob doesn't wnat the Zaps to get the IN, he wants someone from his side to win...uh oh....not good words...Rooster says they have all kinds of fish, Rob says if they are dead you can't eat them, they are all dead...Julie says if Rob were to catch all of the fish, they are all eating the fish....not the Ometepe, Rob says he's the general and they are all doing as they are told, Grant is starving, he's his own man, Rob calls him over...Rob controls the tribe, does Rob want to keep them weak, it's cult like...instilling fear over them, if you are not loyal he'll cut your head off...

Rob says what it comes down to is David or Steve...the biggest strategical threat or Steve, give the old guy what he wants, send him home, I've been known to have a mercy killing in me from time to time...maybe he'll vote for me...

TC:

Phillip: Stealth-R-Us: Boston Rob the mentalist, then Grant the destroyer of aspirations the assisin, 3 degrees, the girls, able to focus their mind like they did today. Ralph, it's hard to beat Stealth r us? Ralph asks was it hard to sit on the bench and eat hamburgers today.

Steve made the decision to take the food, and hope for the best. Phil tells them they have a buddy system, Rb has complete control over them, it's a cult.

David says that RI may be a better tactic to advance yourself that way...

They are voting...

David is voting for Rob

Vote Tally:

No one plays the HII
Rob
Rob
Rob
Rob
David
DAvid
David
David
David
David is out!

Ashley says, "and then there were three..."

Zaps, you have to find a way to crack the Stealth R us organization...good night

"RE: WHAT the HECK???"
Posted by vince3 on 04-13-11 at 08:57 PM
I tried to tell you 4 different times... Didn't you notice that the opening was changed on that other thread to only 'alerted'?
"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by Brownroach on 04-13-11 at 08:55 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-13-11 AT 09:39 PM (EST)

David votes Rob.
Rob does not play the idol when Jeff asks.

And the tally

ROB
ROB
ROB
ROB
DAVID
DAVID
DAVID
DAVID
DAVID
DAVID voted out

"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by Brownroach on 04-13-11 at 08:58 PM
Congratulations to ajglitch!

Next


Phillip takes issue with Steve. That's it.

"Next time..."
Posted by vince3 on 04-13-11 at 08:59 PM
Phillip vs. Steve...


Phillip was seen meditating on the cliff before he starts arguing with Steve.


David is seen joining Mike and Matt at a now crowded RI shelter...

"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by Brownroach on 04-13-11 at 09:30 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-13-11 AT 09:43 PM (EST)

There were quite a few hints tonight that Rob's game will get derailed. There was a lot of emphasis on how he is controlling everything the Omes do, which has been noticed by everyone. Toward the end Grant was shown somewhat chafing against this.

His vendetta against Ashley seemed like more overblown Godfather posturing .

He was paranoid about there being another idol after the Zaps played their little trick. They were able to psych him out.

Most importantly, Rob believes what Phillip says about being happy at the bottom of the heap. Phillip is becoming a "good soldier," so much so that Rob wants him and Natalie in the F3. But Phillip is not with Rob at all, and, I think, will eventually get Rob out.

"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 04-13-11 at 09:51 PM
Agree, I have felt for maybe 3 episodes now that Rob is being set up for a fall - just this feeling that I have plus the subtle hints out there in the editing. I would not be surprised if it's Philip and Andrea teaming up in some way (we've seen their interaction) and perhaps even Grant if he finds out that Rob has been keeping his HII a secret.

Alternatively, I've posted that I thought it was interesting that we're now starting to see signs of Andrea being in close proximity with Rob, perhaps setting up a story arc where she eventually topples him or at least goes all the way to the end with him?

"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by michel on 04-13-11 at 10:14 PM
You're right, this wasn't a good episode for Rob but who did get a good episode? No one except the two guys voted out!
"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by SquidProQuo on 04-13-11 at 11:05 PM
BR and Pepe, I totally agree with your comments. We got a glimpse with the Godfather music, etc. in the preview, and now Rob's edit was totally over the top tonight and seemed to foreshadow his cockiness and downfall. Heck, I love Rob but even I'm starting to dislike him after this episode and root for the underdogs. I thought Rob was a slam-dunk for Fan Favorite but after tonight it's not looking so good...of course there's still time to turn things around.

A few interesting tweets from Jeff Probst tonight that might hint at what's to come (since the preview didn't give us much):

"great comment from David. RI could be the best back door to the final... so much to discover yet with RI." (Squid editorial comment: I think the average viewer is going to be rooting for the winner of the Matt/David/Mike duel after tonight's episode.)

"Grant doesn't seem to realize what Rob is doing. Natalie has no idea. Andrea and Ashley might..."

"Natalie just got "made" - she is now in the inner circle of the Rob Mafia. Somebody is going for a drive in a car very soon."

P.S. Phillip actually made some sense tonight, which is scary. Don't think he's going anywhere anytime soon.

"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 04-13-11 at 11:22 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-13-11 AT 11:23 PM (EST)

Well, I have believed from the beginning that Rob will dominate and then fall, but my efforts at Rob wins resistance have gotten not one agreement or even slight consideration in the editing topic, so I've kind of lost interest in posting my take on it.

I haven't been right about much lately though, .

I think that Andrea and Phillip will outlive Rob, but I don't have a firm idea about Grant -- other than he will be backstabbed by Rob or he will wake up and help get Rob out. I originally thought that Matt would take out Rob, but there seems little chance of that now.

I do expect Rob to make it to the Finale, just not to the Final 3.
I expect Natalie and Andrea will both be F3, and maybe Phillip? I was hoping for Matt, but he had his shot.

I expect to hate the ending of this season.

"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by SquidProQuo on 04-13-11 at 11:53 PM
Sorry, I haven't been keeping up with the editing topic (or much of the spoiling). I'm lucky to even watch the episodes this season. But in general this is a tricky season to analyze the editing because of the RI twist (and also all the Rob adoration).

Re expecting to hate the ending: I agree this season has been dull. My "dream" ending is either: a) Grant finally decides not to be Rob's sheep anymore and makes a move, or b) Mike or David (or even Matt) kick butt on RI and come back and team up with Andrea and Grant. I could also get behind Rob if he gets booted to RI and then makes a comeback -- but don't like the control freak Rob.

Ashley has been a huge disappointment for me so far (based on everything I read about her pre-season)...but tonight gave me a glimmer of hope. And also Jeff's tweet about her and Andrea.

"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by michel on 04-14-11 at 06:13 PM
Guys, while I certainly agree that Rob could fall, your take is more game analysis than editing analysis, at least as far as thinking Natalie, Grant and Ashley will be anything more than loyal or if Phillip will be anything more than a windbag. But I'd love to discuss it in the editing thread once I've made my post.

"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 04-14-11 at 11:48 PM
no, my posts on this were in the editing topic, and they were based on editing. I interpret things differently when it comes to editing. I don't post there all the time because I don't believe in a lot of the statements that are made there as more or less fact about how winning edits must work.
"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by Brownroach on 04-15-11 at 00:26 AM
Nope I said somewhere way back that he's getting edited the same way as in All Stars. Except this time he doesn't have the Amber love interest to soften him up so it's less complex, and therefore worse. He won't win, no way.
"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by michel on 04-15-11 at 07:40 AM
His all-star edit had Lex and Kathy hating him because he had betrayed their friendship. This time he has Mike and David calling him genius. There's a difference.

But I was talking more about his allies' edit. Grant, Ashley and Natalie are edited as Beckys. There has been nothing from those three that suggests they are about to flip on Rob. Even Andrea doesn't have that story now that she's decided to trust Rob again and vote out Matt. Phillip was the only one but Phillip was all talk and now he wants to be the goat! That's the edit.

"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by kiki_k on 04-15-11 at 09:09 AM
>His all-star edit had Lex and
>Kathy hating him because he
>had betrayed their friendship. This
>time he has Mike and
>David calling him genius. There's
>a difference.


I'm putting my 2 cents in. I agree with Michel -- the difference in Rob's edit from All-Stars is that this time he has "learned" from his previous mistakes.

IMO, the only 2 people who can win this game based on their edits are Matt & Rob. Really, who else could *possibly* win?

"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by parathor on 04-15-11 at 09:28 AM
- Natalie the coat-tail rider (precedence: Amber with Rob, Natalie with Russell)
- .... that is all. (I tried coming up with a second, but there are no heroic good-guys left except maybe Matt, and no one playing a great villainous game except Rob)
"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 04-15-11 at 10:27 AM
I think Grant just inserted himself into the discussion of "who could win?" with his mental IC win, plus his "I'm my own man" comment in choosing to disregard Rob's orders to not eat the Zapatera fish.

I wouldn't discount Andrea as well, I think she's got a better chance of winning the game than Matt.

"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by tribephyl on 04-15-11 at 04:47 PM
I'm with you 100%.

"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 04-15-11 at 10:25 AM
I would disagree that there's "nothing from those three that suggests they are about to flip on Rob". I'm not saying that they WILL flip, but we've been given some hints that they have some kind of ability to play the game.

Grant - "I'm my own man" and choosing to not listen to Rob about eating some of the Zapatera fish.

Natalie - willing to throw her BFF Ashley under the bus to Rob. Perhaps it's her naive side showing, but perhaps she was thinking to make sure she was higher on the totem pole than Ashley in the eyes of Rob, so if she was thinking that, no reason why she couldn't also be thinking of the end game.

Andrea - She's shown evidence of understanding the game and needing to make strategic decisions over heart-led decisions (voting out Matt), and who's to say she isn't playing a "keep your enemy close" approach with Rob?

Agree that Ashley has not shown any signs of engaging in gameplay where she might be capable of overthrowing Rob.

Phillip? Who knows with that crackpot? He might wake up on the wrong side of the bed and decide he's going to wage war with Rob all of a sudden! But if he ever finds out that Rob hid the HII from him and the others, I wouldn't be surprised one bit if Phillip immediately sets out to partner up with those who wouldn't mind to overthrow Rob.

Rob's playing a very, very good game ... but also a dangerous game that could get him overthrown at a moment's notice.

"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by dabo on 04-15-11 at 11:26 AM
LAST EDITED ON 04-15-11 AT 11:30 AM (EST)

Agree about Ashley, competitive but her edit shows no game. She could be either a follower vote or a sacrificial lamb in a plan to knock Rob off his perch (split vote, get him to play his HII and leave himself vulnerable next time unless he wins II, in which case it has to be a total frontside/blindside, Rob has to know but there's every reason to not tell Ashley she's the alternate boot, she would maybe even vote Rob herself if that's the way the wind blows.)

"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by michel on 04-15-11 at 10:05 PM
Sorry, I misread the name. Andrea is slightly better than the other spa girls but we've heard what she wants to do: Get back in the fold of Ometepe. She didn't elaborate about her plan to get to the F3 but she did trust Rob again when she voted against Matt.
"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by dabo on 04-15-11 at 10:44 PM
On the contrary. She kept her options open, when Matt came back in with his plan to take out the Ometepe she was on the fence, when Matt couldn't shut up and stop talking even to Rob she realized siding with Matt would only drag her game into the ground so she tossed him aside. Andrea is on her own game, Rob just happens to be a convenient tool, when he ceases to be useful to her he will simply be in the way.
"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by michel on 04-16-11 at 03:33 AM
A Tool!!! We've seen players edited as tools; Caryn in Palau, Boo in Fiji, James in China, Coach in Tocantins and Shambutch in Samoa are examples. Rob doesn't have any of those traits because it's his strategy that the viewers see not his stupidity used by others. If anything, Grant is edited as the tool and the girls aren't far behind.
"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by dabo on 04-16-11 at 11:41 AM
In the buddy system Andrea has been hanging with Grant when he isn't hanging with the boys.
"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by Round Robin on 04-17-11 at 02:23 AM
I think in the most uncomplimentary sense of the word Rob IS a tool, but in the sense of something to be used, he's not being edited as a tool. In that sense, Phillip is the biggest tool in the game. Ordinarily nobody would let a wackjob like Phil stay around, but all the other Ometepes are tolerating the old pain in the @$$ for one reason and one reason only: They're all eventually hoping to knock each other off and win the game themselves, and crotchety old Phil is a vote they need to do it, plus a final 3 foil. He's the ultimate dual purpose tool, and it's so obvious all the other Omes want to use him as that that I'm surprised he doesn't see it.
"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by Flowerpower on 04-17-11 at 10:27 AM
Actually, RR, Phillip does see it...

He notes it in the confessional he opened with after the first TC where Mike was voted out. After the confessional where Rob tells us that Phillip is indeed his number one... Here's what Phillip said...

Everybody (Zaps shown) thinks that Phillip is naiive, Phillip is an idiot, Phillip is a crazy guy...this is a game! Everybody wants to stand at the finals with a guy like me, who's been polarizing, insulting, (see Phillip standing drinking his coffee with all of the Omes in the shelter), so, knowing Boston Rob, like I know him...he's thinking, who can I have stand next to me? (see Natalie), and who doesn't look so pretty? He replies confidently, Phil Sheppard! Smiling! But, I'm a smart guy, I'm a complex person, I gotta make something happen, but, as he puts his hand up, there's a time for that, and now isn't the time. Cut to a spider in his woven web....hmmm? Makes me wonder if Phillip is the webmaster....?



"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by Round Robin on 04-18-11 at 03:08 AM
I don't think Phil is the webmaster. I think he's gonna get et by a bigger spider. And despite all the stuff he said that you quoted, I don't think he has a clue that his plans are gonna come to naught and that somebody will beat him. If he seriously thought somebody might knock him off, he'd be behaving much more conventionally. But he seems to me to have a little bit of Rob and/or RussHell in him, and that will IMO be his downfall.
"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by michel on 04-15-11 at 05:59 PM
Pepe, I always enjoy reading your posts so I'd love to engage this discussion in the editing thread because I don't want to get into it anymore before I'm ready to post but I'll just say two things:

First on Ashley, you wrote:
"who's to say she isn't playing a "keep your enemy close" approach with Rob?"

That is exactly what I mean by game analysis instead of editing analysis. There's nothing wrong with analyzing her best move in the game but I'm saying that there's nothing foreshadowing that Ashley could be playing to overturn Rob.

And second, I knew someone would bring up Grant eating ONE bite of fish. If he saw that as a declaration of independence then I think it only reinforced that Grant is a sheep!

"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 04-15-11 at 07:46 PM
Actually, if you re-read my post, that was Andrea I was referring to (not Ashley) and we did get an inkling that she would consider making a move as we were shown her conversation with Phillip around the fire a few episodes ago and we were reminded in Episode 8 (through a repeat of Episode 3's confessional) of Andrea's comment that she couldn't trust Rob.
"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by Brownroach on 04-16-11 at 11:18 AM
I still think that earlier conversation with Phillip was important. We know Phillip still wants to make a move against Rob, and he doesn't seem interested in enlisting any of the Zaps to do it, at least not yet. When the time comes, he'll need Andrea.
"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by dabo on 04-16-11 at 11:39 AM
Agree. Andrea is his sleeper agent.
"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by michel on 04-17-11 at 01:57 PM
That's a very romantic view of her role. Are you sure she isn't a sleeping agent? Or a "put the viewers to sleep" agent?

"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by dabo on 04-18-11 at 01:08 AM
Yes, I'm sure. I don't know if she'll make a move when she should. I don't know if she'll be successful if she does make a move. I don't know if it will be a good move or a bad move, smart or whatever. But I have been watching and what I see is she has kept her head in the game. And even though she gets lumped in with the spa girls, that's simply a fact of gender. She moves within Ometepe to interact with everyone.
"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by michel on 04-18-11 at 11:39 AM
I'd much rather talk of editing in the Editing thread
"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by Georjanna on 04-14-11 at 01:19 AM
LAST EDITED ON 04-14-11 AT 01:44 AM (EST)

Well ...

After tonight, I think that I'm finally ready to attempt to further explain - to Michel - my comparison of Phillip to Bob ...

"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by dabo on 04-14-11 at 01:38 AM
If it helps, I think the Ometepe are just using Rob and have no intention of letting him get to Final. Not Phillip maybe, he seems to think he can get to Final with Rob and beat him, but they can't all be that dumb.
"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 04-14-11 at 01:57 AM
>If it helps, I think the
>Ometepe are just using Rob
>and have no intention of
>letting him get to Final.

I have always thought that, with a question mark next to Natalie's intent. I am not sure whether anyone has been brave enough to discuss it, because there is a lot of tattletale risk.

I think there have been confessionals where the Ometepe have individually said that they want to go with Rob to a certain point, until they have the numbers, but I think those confessionals have not been shown, because the editing is building up Rob's apparent sweep of the game.

Now they are switching it around to show the flaws in Rob's approach, and at some point very soon we should hear some of his loyal soldiers talking about their own end game -- which will include "can't let Rob be in the F3)."

"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by dabo on 04-14-11 at 02:04 AM
Natalie is very young. Maybe not as naive as Matt, but very young, not dumb but maybe not savvy enough to be playing with an expert like Rob. That may be why they are hiding her in the edit, to spare her some harsh criticism.
"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by SquidProQuo on 04-14-11 at 09:25 AM
>If it helps, I think the
>Ometepe are just using Rob
>and have no intention of
>letting him get to Final.

Dabo, I've been thinking/hoping this all along too. They can't be this dumb and sheeplike, right?!! But the edit's been very interesting as we've been given so little of the others' thoughts and strategy. I'm assuming it's for dramatic effect when they finally blindside Rob.

Now that "jury management" comes into play, Grant, Ashley and Andrea need to get out from under Rob's shadow.

The one thing I think we can take some stock in is that Rob, Phillip and Natalie WON'T all be the F3 as Rob stated last night.

"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by parathor on 04-14-11 at 09:53 AM
Totally agree. Actually, after watching the ep, I'd almost say that Phillip is soon to be sent packing (per the blatant confessionals from Rob & Phillip to the contrary), and that Ashley makes it to the final 3 (she's the only one who'd make the finale more dramatic)

Rob didn't have a very good edit last night. He's more likeable as an wily underdog (AS, HvV, first part of RI) than as a robfather (Maq, last part of RI).

"Rob's Story, Idol Paranoia, Etc."
Posted by samboohoo on 04-14-11 at 09:57 AM
I agree with you, but part of Rob's story last night was about the idol. A big part. None of the Omes (seemingly) know he has it. He was shown his most cocky last night. Could he really be that good? The idol was his downfall last time. Could it be his savior this time?


Samboobree, brought to life by Arkie


"RE: Rob's Story, Idol Paranoia, Etc."
Posted by SquidProQuo on 04-14-11 at 10:18 AM
LAST EDITED ON 04-14-11 AT 10:36 AM (EST)

Good point. I guess it all depends on whether the "sheep" are on to the fact that Rob has the HII or not (they are really really dumb if they don't realize it by now, but who knows) and whether they plan to blindside him before he uses it.

The one thing Rob can't control (even with the HII) is who comes back from RI. That's why Matt made him so nervous. And that's why he wanted to send someone to defeat Matt at RI. But I wonder if Rob's thinking through about how a Zap returning from RI could be even worse for him -- i.e. Mike, David or Rooster could return and win immunity at the end and most likely would get all the Zap votes + Matt.

ETA: When does the jury start? Is it F3 + jury of 7 or jury of 9? If the losers of this next duel are not on the jury, then that's good for Rob.

"RE: Rob's Story, Idol Paranoia, Etc."
Posted by Brownroach on 04-14-11 at 11:24 AM
It's jury of 7 so the next two evictees from RI will not be on the jury.
"RE: Rob's Story, Idol Paranoia, Etc."
Posted by SquidProQuo on 04-14-11 at 12:40 PM
That's a bummer if 2 of David/Mike/Matt won't be on jury. I like all of them and would especially love to see David the lawyer asking questions at Final TC.

Don't know if the Matt stand-in thing is a hoax or much to do about nothing, but surely they wouldn't need a stand-in for him if he's not even jury, would they?

"RE: Rob's Story, Idol Paranoia, Etc."
Posted by dabo on 04-14-11 at 11:35 AM
Yes. Jury of 7 this time. But the winner of the next duel is either jury or a finalist, bad for Rob either way.

Rob having the HII may be the worst kept secret in the game. There had to have been discussions about it, even people going to Rob wondering what they should do about it (who has it, can we find out somehow?), we didn't see any of those. If nothing else, not knowing where the HII is, they have to realize in order to get Rob out it has to be a total blindside.

Rob found the HII so he found with it the provenance which told him how long the thing was good for. Even if he gets through the game without having to play it, never revealing he has it, after it is no longer useful (and Jeff will certainly announce at TC when it is the last time it can be used) Rob can only rely on individual immunities after that. He cannot afford to allow anyone to get past that point who can beat him at challenges. Even if he plays perfectly up to the finale, someone comes back from RI who is the biggest challenge threat remaining in the game.

"RE: Rob's Story, Idol Paranoia, Etc."
Posted by SquidProQuo on 04-14-11 at 12:56 PM
Here's what Jeff tweeted last night re the HII:

A to Q - of course Rob can still use his idol. Up until the last episode.

So that means the HII can be used up to and including F6? Or F5? I'm unclear. Either way, Rob will need to take out Grant the challenge beast before that, but of course there's still the RI returnee to deal with. Just trying to figure out what's the best end game plan from Rob's standpoint.

I'm not a big fan of the RI twist, but I gotta say that this coming episode I'm more interested in what happens with the 3 guys on RI vs. everyone else. I really, really hope that no matter which of the guys win, they share info and give strategic advice to help along the duel (or should we say truel winner.

"RE: Rob's Story, Idol Paranoia, Etc."
Posted by dabo on 04-14-11 at 02:20 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-14-11 AT 09:47 PM (EST)

The best thing for Rob would be if David wins the next duel. Not because Matt and Mike are bigger challenge threats, though there is that. Matt and Mike are noble players, their values would be antagonistic to Rob if they are on the jury. David intellectualizes the game and admires how Rob plays.

"RE: Rob's Story, Idol Paranoia, Etc."
Posted by SquidProQuo on 04-14-11 at 02:57 PM
Agreed -- great point, Dabo, from the perspective of who Rob would most want to sit on the jury.

From an RI returnee/general audience perspective, I think Mike is very promising in terms of a "great story" and possible winner's edit. In the Insider Clips this week, Mike talks about the story of his grandfather, who is his hero. (Grandpa's photo is his luxury item). He was a B17 navigator who was shot down during WWII and spent 2 years suffering in a POW camp. He wrote a book about his experience that was made into the Steve McQueen movie, "The Great Escape." Mike says his grandfather is going to be his inspiration on RI and was also Mike's inspiration to go into the military.

So my guess is that IF Mike can pull out an RI run, he's going to be the underdog/hero/do-gooder to Rob's current "evil"/Godfather/control freak edit and CBS will milk it for all it's worth. This show-down was sort of set up when Mike and Matt were talking about the bible and Rob made fun of them. (Need to go back, but as I recall, Mike had a great 1st episode and some good early quotes too. I had pretty much written him off of late, but this Insider clip is making me reconsider.) And I can see Mike doing very well before a jury.

Then again, this grandfather clip wasn't shown, which might mean it amounts to nothing. And I don't mean to jump ahead of things -- I'm not implying Mike's the winner. But I do think it would make for a very compelling story...and I do think that MB/CBS would love for someone to come off RI this season and make the F3. Will be interesting to see what happens next week.

"RE: Rob's Story, Idol Paranoia, Etc."
Posted by dabo on 04-14-11 at 04:02 PM
Interesting. The author of The Great Escape, Paul Brickhill, was an Australian Spitfire pilot who was a POW at that stalag. That doesn't mean Mike grandfather wasn't also there and didn't also write about it, the fact-checkers may have excluded the scene just to avoid it becoming an issue about Mike's character.
"RE: Rob's Story, Idol Paranoia, Etc."
Posted by tribephyl on 04-14-11 at 05:25 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-14-11 AT 05:38 PM (EST)

Interesting stuff. I did some sleuthing.
Seems while Paul Brickhill was indeed the author and basis of The Great escape. He was not one of the ones that escaped.
Also came upon a story from and about a B17 Navigator shot down on 29th mission over Stuttgart becoming a POW at Stalag Luft I.
2nd Lieutenant James B. Walden.
Excerpts from his article...
The Story Of A B-17 Crew Shot Down Over Stuttgart, Germany

James B. Walden, Bombardier and Navigator in the crew on the Robert H. Brown crew of the 306 Bomb Group, Squadron 369 at Thurleigh, England. We flew our mission July 24,1944 and another on the 25th to St. Lo, France in support of our ground troops in the breakout on the way to Berlin. My crew came from McDill Field in Tampa, Florida where we had to leave our navigator, Lt. C. Tucker because he broke his arm the day before we were to leave. He was later killed in a crash during a training flight with another crew.

When we got to England we acquired Lt. A.J. Trelford as navigator. We flew a few missions with Trelford then he was transferred to another crew, as navigators were in short supply. As I had navigator training as well as bombardier I became navigator for the rest of our tour. Trelford was killed a few days later when his crew crashed on takeoff for a mission. Our crew flew together for a few more missions and our pilot was hit in the arm by flak (no bones broken) so we individually flew with other crews when needed, not a happy situation. Our crew trained together for quite some time and knew each other and what to expect in an emergency. For example I could fly and land a B17 if necessary. We got our pilot, Bob Brown, back and we flew a good many more missions together. We had our ups and downs as did all crews.

We went to Merseburg 5 times and we heard that they had more anti-aircraft guns than Berlin. Our tail gunner, Sgt. Mike Ferrar was killed by flak over Merseburg and we came home at 12,000 feet as our oxygen was shot out. I did not think we would make it that day but we did. I made Sgt. Rosener our bombardier, an experienced man for that job, when I became navigator he was a 36 year old career man. We had our share of lost engines, flak damage, 8 planes lost to fighters and 3 trips home alone. I guess the last one to Stuttgart where we were shot down was the worst. Our first flight to Stuttgart, we got a lot of flak and lost Rosener for good with a split kneecap. Lt. Moore took his place.

The mission to Stuttgart was very cold and cloudy, but when we arrived the clouds opened up and we saw the target. As I recall we were at 28,000 feet. We were hit hard just after the bombs went out. We lost an engine and the oil pressure went too, so the engine could not be feathered. Flak hit the co-pilot in the knee and shattered his thigh bone. I was hit in the back of the neck and hit the floor. I got up with no helmet on so I didn't know if the flak hit the helmet or the plane first. Lots of blood but not serious. The pilot tried everything to feather the engine, but it was not possible. We were heading to France as there was an emergency field not too far away. We dropped out of formation, and the missing crew report said that we dropped down under control with no visible damage. We stayed with the plane for several minutes so no one saw what happened to us. We had had this situation before and an engine that not feathered will shake a plane so bad you have to hold on. At first we thought we were going to have to ditch in the North Sea but at about 50 feet the shaft tore loose and the shaking stopped like turning off a light and we were able to make it home. We did have a hole in the gas tank and as we pulled into our hardstand the crew chief came running out screaming for us to cut off the engines. I don't know why we did not catch on fire or blow up.


On our last trip somewhere between Stuttgart and the Rhine River we caught fire and because the flames were blowing back off the wing we had to jump. The engineer helped the copilot to the escape hatch in the floor of the nose, but he found that it was jammed shut by flak. He took off his gloves and tried his best to open the hatch. Since it was 60 degrees below zero he froze both hands. I got there and saw the problem and pointed to the rear then he and the bombardier helped the co-pilot to jump out of the bomb bay which was jammed open, thank goodness. I went up to check on the pilot and he was flying with both hands (no auto pilot) and did not show any wounds. He always said he would not jump and didn't.

I did a free fall to get down to oxygen and I guess I pulled the cord at about 3000 to 4000 feet. It was snowing and I could not see the ground until I got to about 500 feet. I could not see any houses, nothing but snow and trees. I thought I had it made. I was a few miles from the Rhine River and the Americans were on the other side, I rolled up my chute and was going to hide it in the snow when I saw the home guard with a huge rifle watching me from about 100 feet away. We walked down the mountain for 15 to 20 minutes to an old farm house, no paint and a wooden plow. Quickly a crowd gathered, men, women and children all talking to each other, German of course, and I had no idea what it was all about.

A young girl came up to me and spoke English. She asked if I was an American. It sure was good to hear English and I asked her if I could have some water and a towel to wash my neck. She turned to a woman (her mother) and spoke German. Then she told me to follow her into the house. I went in (not stopped by the guard) and she filled a basin with water and laid a towel beside it . She said I would have to do it for myself. I did because I quickly understood that they could not help a prisoner. She then gave me a strip of cloth that I wrapped around my neck and tied the ends. I then got back outside as fast as I could.

In a few minutes a couple of Gestapo, I think, came in a VW, searched me and took everything I had. I gave my parachute to the lady beside the girl as I went inside the house. We then drove for what seemed like 30 minutes to a town where I was put in a jail. Later my bombardier was brought in. That night about midnight a civilian came in with a suit and tie on, speaking perfect English and asked, " How are you boys doing?" To me this was an American phrase not German. He asked if we were hungry. We said yes and that were cold too. There was a ceramic stove in the jail, but no matches or wood. He said that he would see what he could do. We had no cover, only a wooden shelf just wide enough to lie on and no chairs. About an hour later a guard came in with an aluminum container. We had veal cutlets, potatoes, kraut, black bread and coffee, a full meal. He also brought wood and started a fire. We told each other that we had better eat as it might be our last meal because tomorrow we might be shot. The next morning we were taken to the office of a bigwig. He was smoking my cigarettes and thoroughly enjoying himself. He asked one question, what a CO cylinder in my life jacket was. We were then sent to Wetzler with two guards.

The Germans were moving out of the building in a hurry as the Americans were just across the river.
We had to walk for 3 weeks and finally ended up in a prison camp, Stalag Luft 1. We hoped that our pilot would show up there but he never did and we heard nothing about him or the plane.
The first of last year I got an e-mail that started off-- I was 4 years old when you were a prisoner at Stalag1 and I lived in Barth where the camp was located. It was from Helga Radau. I told her my story about our pilot and she said to contact Roland Geiger who gave her my e-mail address. I wrote him that my ship went down at Wolfach, but no crash site was ever found. He then got in touch with another German, Ottmar Erber in the Black Forrest. Mr Erber sent Roland 2 pages of a book about the Black Forrest that described 2 eyewitnesses telling what happened to the pilot. I am enclosing a copy of what Erber sent to Geiger. He sent it in German and Geiger translated it. Brown's name was in English and his serial number matched. I was able to follow the story through to his burial in Arlington Cemetery in Virginia. I have the grave number there.

Later Mr. Erber found the young girl that spoke to me in English when I landed in Germany. I have a letter from her and will enclose a copy. I wondered about her speaking English. I was shot down and the war was over for me. I didn't know what was coming next. It certainly was not a little German girl speaking English. The neighborhood watch took my parachute away from her mother. I didn't see hate in any of the people that surrounded me that day. I saw hate in the eyes of a mob that gathered behind us as we walked through a town that was still smoking. The people were screaming and had hanging us on their minds. We understood some of the things that they called us, like SOB and a few others. One guard told another guard for us to start running and he raised his rifle and pointed it at the mob. We ran until we were out of sight and I have no idea what he said to the mob of about 25 people. He caught up with us a little later without them.


The finding of the little girl, now 71, as per her letter would make her about 14 when all this happened. It was good to be able to say thank you to a total stranger who stuck her neck out to help me when I needed it most.

I made 29 missions. My co-pilot was on his 35th and last. He lost a leg and spent the rest of the war in the hospital. The engineer had both hands frozen and was also put in the hospital where German doctors saved his fingers after 6 months on treatment.

Trying to find ties between Mike's grandpa and James Walden now.
Wondering now if Stalag 17 isn't more closely related to Mike's Grandpa's story.

"Found It!"
Posted by dabo on 04-14-11 at 07:57 PM
http://www.100thbg.com/mainpages/crews/crews5/duncan.htm

Navigator Oliver M. Chiesl wrote a book published in 1948 entitled "Clipped Wings", experiences as P. O. W in Stalag Luft 3.

"RE: Found It!"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 04-14-11 at 11:51 PM
Good job, guys! Great catch by Squid and excellent sleuthing by tribe and dabo.
"RE: Found It!"
Posted by dabo on 04-15-11 at 01:03 AM
Thank you. I wasn't hopeful of finding anything without knowing the grandfather's name, but it was worth looking around. This kind of gives me hope that Mike has more of what it takes to survive RI than Matt. Love Matt as a nice guy type but he's really no match for Mariano, Mike was actually able to organize the unruly Zapatera into a team and make Rob work for it.

I found my old copy of Brickhill's book, but unfortunately no bibliography or suggested further reading so it was no help in that way. But Brickhill did work on the escape, hundreds of prisoners were organized in various capacities to pull it off, Brickhill was one of the "stooge gang" who kept tabs on the guards. Here's part of what he wrote:

And when I finally drew a privileged position for the actual escape, "Big X" debarred me and three or four others on grounds of claustrophobia, a correct, if infuriating, decision. A few weeks later I was deeply grateful.

"RE: Found It!"
Posted by SquidProQuo on 04-15-11 at 01:13 AM
Awesome! Way to go Dabo and Tribe -- thank you for digging. I never saw the movie or read the book, so definitely plan to check it out.

And yes, this is giving me hope about Mike. (As well as the clues that imply jury of 9.) Although apparently America doesn't love him as much as we do. On the CBS web site, currently 71% are voting for Matt, only 19% for Mike, and 10% for David.

"RE: Rob's Story, Idol Paranoia, Etc."
Posted by emydi on 04-14-11 at 03:59 PM
The call sheets say that at end of Ep 13 there are 6 people left presumably 2 on Redemption Island with the winner of Duel in Ep 14 returning to the the game and a second F5 TC. It would appear from Jiffy's tweet that you can use HII up til the 2nd F5 TC because that is on the Finale whereas the first F5 TC is on Ep 13
"Did Rob lose his advantage?"
Posted by Krautboy on 04-14-11 at 02:02 PM
After last night the Ometepe have a 6-3 advantage. I would argue that this gives the Ometepe a numerical advantage, but cost Rob his strategic advantage.

The Ometepe tribe needed Rob when the numbers were close and when they had to constantly worry about the threat of a defector. Rob was the master strategist and without him the rest of Ometepe were clueless...but now that then have the significant advantage and can see a clear path to the end. Suddenly he has become less important and vulnerable.

The Ometepe could vote him out now and still be at 5-3 with no worries, then finish off the last of the Zaps to make F5 and the finale.

Rob made a mistake by not voting off an Ometepe; without a strong enemy, the Ometepe no longer need a strong leader...



Krautboy

"RE: Did Rob lose his advantage?"
Posted by Corvis on 04-14-11 at 02:13 PM
I think they will turn on Rob, but the question is when? And will he realize it's about to happen and play the idol?

I don't think the Ometepe will turn on Rob yet because it would take all of them to do it and everyone would be scared to be the first to suggest it. All it takes is Natalie running to Rob and the suggester is voted out. The best plan is to take out one more Zappy leaving two remaining. And then three Ometepes team up with the remaining two Zappies. Five person alliance with an Ometepe core that can make final 3 barring an immunity challenge win. (And I'm ignoring the RI returnee for now.)

The question is are there three Ometepes who would be willing to do it? Phillip believes he is final 2 or 3 with Rob. But Grant is starting to chafe under Rob. Andrea would do it if she felt certain she had two other Ometepes. Natalie won't do it. Would Ashley? Probably, though I have the feeling she's tight with Natalie. Of course, if she learns Natalie ratted her out to Rob...

Still it'll take one of the Ometepes being willing to bring it up and risk having everyone turn on him or her. Who has the guts?

"RE: Did Rob lose his advantage?"
Posted by Krautboy on 04-14-11 at 02:37 PM
Good points Corvis. Rob's edit last night was like watching Russell...Both intimidated and controlled using fear of retaliation as their tool of choice.

I hope that Rob changes to a more jury friendly game, from here on. He has the numbers and control of the game...time for him to lighten up a bit. He has the skills and the charm, and needs to start playing a kinder gentler game to nuture potential jury votes...



Krautboy

"RE: Did Rob lose his advantage?"
Posted by emydi on 04-14-11 at 04:04 PM
well they don't need all of them to turn on Rob in Ep 10 but it would not be smart yet to turn because if 2 of them flip, say Andrea and Philip, as has been foreshadowed, they would be down 3-2 with their new alliance with Julie Steve Rooster.

If they vote say Rooster off next in Ep 10, then in Ep 11, 3 of the Omes could flip with Julie and Steve. If I were Philip and Andrea, I would pursue either Ashley or Grant, no way Natalie. Grant is BR's buddy but we saw some independence from him last nite with fish. Also we saw a bit of independence with Ashley with Rooster. However, Ashley is closer to Natalie (they're buddies) and I would be hesitant to let Natalie learn of it (although I am saying this after watching the show..do they know Natalie is the made "rat" to BR) However, going with Grant, you have a big immunity threat with a pretty likable guy. I might go after Ashley after all.


"Natlie"
Posted by samboohoo on 04-15-11 at 08:49 AM
We saw Natalie telling Rob last ngiht about Rooster's conversation and what he said to Ashley about voting for her over Rob. I think Natalie would give Rob information again - especially if/when Ometepe is thinking about dumping him.

Also, something that just stuck out to me. Didn't Rooster basically make the promise to Ashley - even though Natalie was right there?


Samboobree, brought to life by Arkie


"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by SquidProQuo on 04-15-11 at 01:49 AM
I miissed the 1st 10 minutes of this week's episode so just watched it tonight. One thing that really struck me is Matt's comment about being a moron. Also, last episode after getting voted out, he talked about how he's bad at Survivor, which I think most of us took as the kiss of death for his long-term prospects.

Now I'm wondering if we need to reconsider. As I watched Matt beating himself up for being stupid, it reminded me of Rooster's comment in Ep. 1 that maybe this time a dumbass will win (or something along those lines). Could there be something to this? Or am I reading too much into it?


"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by parathor on 04-15-11 at 08:39 AM
I love that line of reasoning... but hate the thought of some guy being legitimately kicked out - twice - being able to win the entire thing. I'd probably stop watching if that happened.
"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by SquidProQuo on 04-15-11 at 09:20 AM
Parathor, I was totally feeling like you -- i.e., anyone who gets kicked out twice (even once) and comes back from RI doesn't deserve to win. But after this last episode with Ome's/Rob's arrogance, and the way the whole edit appears to be going, I realized that I'm rooting for 1 of the 3 guys on RI to pull it out and at least make F3. I think CBS, via the very pronounced shift in edit, wants the "average viewer" to be pulling for the underdogs (at least at this point in the game). Maybe they're just trying to "sell" this whole RI twist, who knows.

Not that popular opinion has any correlation between good game play or who's going to win (Rupert!!), but apparently many people are rooting for Matt. On the CBS web site late last night, 71% were voting for him to win on RI (vs. 19% for Mike and 10% for David). There appears to be a big shift in opinion against Rob too -- lots of comments that they want Matt to come back and beat Rob; Rob's too cocky, etc.

There's still a lot of time and I wouldn't be surprised if things shift again. But I'm just saying we shouldn't rule Matt and the RI guys out. As BR notes, Matt's received a great edit despite his stupid gameplay. And Jeff keeps hinting in his tweets and blogs that there's more coming on RI and it could be the best route to the finals.

"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by parathor on 04-15-11 at 09:32 AM
Oh, I'm fine with Matt or someone making it to the finals... it happened with Outcasts. But even they realized that awarding the money to someone who hadn't played the game for half the time wasn't fair, so I'd suspect that the same thing will happen here - the RI person can't win -- unless they're, like, the last voted out and somehow make it back and win - that'd be fine, too... but if Matt wins the whole thing, then that's just crazy.
"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by SquidProQuo on 04-15-11 at 09:41 AM
The crazy thing with this RI twist is that in some ways the RI returnee has a unique advantage in getting to bond with jurors, etc. On the other hand, could easily get voted right off again unless wins those final immunities.
"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by Brownroach on 04-15-11 at 09:01 AM
I think Matt's gotten nothing but a consistently positive edit, his apparently stupid gameplay notwithstanding.
"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 04-15-11 at 05:48 PM
I think a person who does something stupid and shows awareness it was stupid, is getting a positive edit. Acting stupid and then making excuses for why or denying it was stupid -- bad edit.

I liked what Matt's quote of the fool me once, fool me twice maxim for possible foreshadowing. He said he is not making the same mistake again.

"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by Corvis on 04-15-11 at 05:59 PM
I agree with both of you. I want to go back and watch his confessional from the last episode again, but I remember thinking at the time that his story may not be over.
"RE: Survivor 22 Ep9 ECST"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 04-15-11 at 07:16 PM
I look forward to your analysis, Corvis!

When he first arrived at RI this time, he was crushed and defeated in terms of belief in his ability to play.

Now he has had time to regroup for this confessional, he seems to be thinking in terms of learning from the past and moving forward. Granted he tried to learn from his first vote off, but at that time he was grappling with whether or not to forgive.

Now he understands that forgiving the snake just gets you bitten.
Jeff mentioned the story of the Scorpion and the frog in his tweets, re Rob and Matt.

"The Scorpion and the Frog

One day, a scorpion looked around at the mountain where he lived and decided that he wanted a change. So he set out on a journey through the forests and hills. He climbed over rocks and under vines and kept going until he reached a river.
The river was wide and swift, and the scorpion stopped to reconsider the situation. He couldn't see any way across. So he ran upriver and then checked downriver, all the while thinking that he might have to turn back.

Suddenly, he saw a frog sitting in the rushes by the bank of the stream on the other side of the river. He decided to ask the frog for help getting across the stream.

"Hellooo Mr. Frog!" called the scorpion across the water, "Would you be so kind as to give me a ride on your back across the river?"

"Well now, Mr. Scorpion! How do I know that if I try to help you, you wont try to kill me?" asked the frog hesitantly.

"Because," the scorpion replied, "If I try to kill you, then I would die too, for you see I cannot swim!"

Now this seemed to make sense to the frog. But he asked. "What about when I get close to the bank? You could still try to kill me and get back to the shore!"

"This is true," agreed the scorpion, "But then I wouldn't be able to get to the other side of the river!"

"Alright then...how do I know you wont just wait till we get to the other side and THEN kill me?" said the frog.

"Ahh...," crooned the scorpion, "Because you see, once you've taken me to the other side of this river, I will be so grateful for your help, that it would hardly be fair to reward you with death, now would it?!"

So the frog agreed to take the scorpion across the river. He swam over to the bank and settled himself near the mud to pick up his passenger. The scorpion crawled onto the frog's back, his sharp claws prickling into the frog's soft hide, and the frog slid into the river. The muddy water swirled around them, but the frog stayed near the surface so the scorpion would not drown. He kicked strongly through the first half of the stream, his flippers paddling wildly against the current.

Halfway across the river, the frog suddenly felt a sharp sting in his back and, out of the corner of his eye, saw the scorpion remove his stinger from the frog's back. A deadening numbness began to creep into his limbs.

"You fool!" croaked the frog, "Now we shall both die! Why on earth did you do that?"

The scorpion shrugged, and did a little jig on the drownings frog's back.

"I could not help myself. It is my nature."

Then they both sank into the muddy waters of the swiftly flowing river.

What does it say about Rob's gameplay, if Jeff compares him to the Scorpion, who self-destructs because he can't help but play according to his nature? The Scorpion understands his best self-interest, and explains it to the Frog, but ultimately he forgets.

Not sure Jeff thought it all the way through when he pulled out the fable, but still doesn't reflect well on Rob's chances of winning. As for the frog Matt, we know that he has a third chance, although he wouldn't have prior to RI.

btw, the number 3 is highly symbolic. So far Matt has been all about Father and Son. Three is the number of the Trinity, the Holy Ghost. The new Matt.