Keep all discussion of tonight's show on this thread until it airs on the West Coast.

• Recrap,Snidget, 08:02 PM, 10-20-10
• Next Day,Snidget, 08:03 PM, 10-20-10
• RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,Brownroach, 08:05 PM, 10-20-10
• RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,Brownroach, 08:06 PM, 10-20-10
• More next day,Snidget, 08:09 PM, 10-20-10
• Immunity Challenge,Snidget, 08:10 PM, 10-20-10
  • Espada,Snidget, 08:12 PM, 10-20-10
  • La Flor,Snidget, 08:13 PM, 10-20-10
  • Toss off,Snidget, 08:14 PM, 10-20-10
• RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,Brownroach, 08:11 PM, 10-20-10
  • RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,Outfrontgirl, 08:22 PM, 10-20-10
    • RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,Brownroach, 08:30 PM, 10-20-10
      • RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,Outfrontgirl, 04:08 AM, 10-21-10
• RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,Brownroach, 08:17 PM, 10-20-10
• RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,Brownroach, 08:21 PM, 10-20-10
  • RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,emydi, 09:51 AM, 10-21-10
• La Flor,Snidget, 08:22 PM, 10-20-10
  • RE: La Flor,CTgirl, 10:05 PM, 10-20-10
    • RE: La Flor,dabo, 00:33 AM, 10-21-10
    • RE: La Flor,emydi, 09:53 AM, 10-21-10
• Espada,Snidget, 08:26 PM, 10-20-10
• Nature Shot,Snidget, 08:29 PM, 10-20-10
  • RE: Nature Shot,CTgirl, 10:06 PM, 10-20-10
    • RE: Nature Shot,michel, 10:15 PM, 10-20-10
• RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,Brownroach, 08:34 PM, 10-20-10
• RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,Brownroach, 08:39 PM, 10-20-10
  • RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,emydi, 10:06 AM, 10-21-10
• Tribal La Flor,Snidget, 08:39 PM, 10-20-10
  • Da Votes,Snidget, 08:41 PM, 10-20-10
  • Revote,Snidget, 08:47 PM, 10-20-10
    • RE: Revote,Brownroach, 08:56 PM, 10-20-10
      • RE: Revote,Snidget, 09:03 PM, 10-20-10
        • RE: Revote,Brownroach, 09:11 PM, 10-20-10
          • RE: Revote,michel, 09:26 PM, 10-20-10
            • RE: Revote,Brownroach, 00:22 AM, 10-21-10
              • RE: Revote,emydi, 09:57 AM, 10-21-10
      • RE: Revote,michel, 09:05 PM, 10-20-10
        • RE: Revote,Brownroach, 09:15 PM, 10-20-10
          • RE: Revote,michel, 09:18 PM, 10-20-10
            • RE: Revote,Brownroach, 09:27 PM, 10-20-10
              • RE: Revote,michel, 09:29 PM, 10-20-10
                • RE: Revote,Brownroach, 09:38 PM, 10-20-10
                  • RE: Revote,michel, 09:42 PM, 10-20-10
                    • RE: Revote,Brownroach, 09:57 PM, 10-20-10
                      • RE: Revote,michel, 10:10 PM, 10-20-10
                        • RE: Revote,Brownroach, 10:16 PM, 10-20-10
                          • RE: Revote,dabo, 00:39 AM, 10-21-10
                          • RE: Revote,emydi, 10:09 AM, 10-21-10
• RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,Brownroach, 08:44 PM, 10-20-10
  • RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,emydi, 10:11 AM, 10-21-10
• RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,Brownroach, 08:46 PM, 10-20-10
  • RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,emydi, 10:13 AM, 10-21-10
• Tribal Espada,Snidget, 08:52 PM, 10-20-10
  • Da Votes,Snidget, 08:54 PM, 10-20-10
• Next Week,Snidget, 08:59 PM, 10-20-10
• RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,Brownroach, 09:00 PM, 10-20-10
• RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,Brownroach, 09:04 PM, 10-20-10
• RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,SquidProQuo, 10:54 PM, 10-20-10
  • RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,Outfrontgirl, 04:30 AM, 10-21-10
    • RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,CTgirl, 08:49 AM, 10-21-10
      • RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,Outfrontgirl, 09:05 AM, 10-21-10
        • RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,Toban, 10:09 AM, 10-21-10
        • RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,emydi, 10:24 AM, 10-21-10
      • RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,Brownroach, 11:32 AM, 10-21-10
        • RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,CTgirl, 12:23 PM, 10-21-10
          • RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,dabo, 01:02 PM, 10-21-10
    • RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,emydi, 10:22 AM, 10-21-10
    • RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,Brownroach, 11:01 AM, 10-21-10
      • RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,SquidProQuo, 11:17 AM, 10-21-10
        • RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,Outfrontgirl, 04:45 PM, 10-21-10
      • RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,Outfrontgirl, 04:42 PM, 10-21-10
  • RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,emydi, 10:20 AM, 10-21-10
    • RE: S21 Nicaragua Episode #6 ECST,SquidProQuo, 11:59 AM, 10-21-10
    • Agree, agree, and agree,Flowerpower, 05:28 PM, 10-21-10
• HI Question on Revote,samboohoo, 09:24 AM, 10-21-10
  • RE: HI Question on Revote,Brownroach, 10:46 AM, 10-21-10
    • The players know the rule,kiki_k, 05:40 PM, 10-21-10
      • RE: The players know the rule,Brownroach, 06:45 PM, 10-21-10
        • RE: The players know the rule,dabo, 07:24 PM, 10-21-10

Tribe swap
New-Espada votes out Tyrone

Looks like rain, Dan wants to pack it in.
Short Opening Credits.

Dan is the first person to threaten to quit this week, before they even get to the nonexistent credits.

Yve not happy at being left out.

Yve feeling out of the loop, talks to Holly about it.
Discuss Danny feeling done.

La Flor--Old vs Young, older tribe feeling out of place except for Jane who seems to blend in. Plan to flush out he idol with Marty and Jill votes.

Individual Immunity, both tribes going to tribal.
One from each tribe will be safe.

Dig up rope ring with paddle and toss into butt-basket. First to three wins immunity.

Ring toss for reward. Winning tribe gets to eat and watch the other tribal council.

Espada goes first

Holly in the lead with 2, Dan struggling with one.

Alina gets three first, Holly gets her third in the basket first and wins immunity.

Purple Kelly last one to get one, several people on their second.

Jill gets the third ring first, wins immunity.

Man that went fast.

Tied 2-2

Jill vs Holly

Jill wins feast for La Flor

Brenda wants to split the vote between Marty and Jill at the next TC.

Challenge time already! Must be lots of drama coming.

you called that one, BR! Just popping in to say you were right, I was wrong!

Hey ofg --but it took like half a second for them to slide Kelly B in so they clearly wanted her out as well. (I'm on my Droid so I can't post a Smiley)

yeah, I think you were right (again) when you predicted they would want to keep Kelly B's name out of the pre-immunity discussion. Put Jill under more risk, then she is safe, then hit us with Kelly B.

Jill, Marty and Kelly B all did well in the challenge. Uh-oh on Kelly B.

Sash speaks! They are swapping in Kelly B for Jill and telling her that Jane is the other target. Go emydi!

I still don't understand why Kelly B didn't think a little and wonder what they told Jane. The only thing I can think of is KB just went along to get along and paid the price (be proactive in this game!!) and she didn't even approach Jane. OR she did and Jane told her she was voting Marty and that Kelly P was the other target. Maybe that is how Kelly P was part of the boot??? We didn't see Kelly P at all of course.

now 3 votes Marty and 3 for Kelly B and hope to flush the idol.

NaOnka's hatred of the leg still in effect at La Flor.

Marty tells Fabio that he is a grand master in chess, but not a grand master (but the guy's name he used is a tennis player). He feels he can say anything from the 70's and they'll believe me.

Fabio believes the chess thing, tries to pull him in with the three Espada people.

Using Guillermo Vilas's name was hysterical. I don't follow chess but I thought to myself, isn't he a tennis player?! Fabio is such a Spicoli!

Yes. But he's a southpaw.

I was laughing too...at least Marty is playing the game! and all the searches on chessmasters this past week were in vain!!

Also I think Marty got sort of an ally in Jud. From at least the editing, when KB got voted out instead of Marty, Jud was shown as having a smile on his face. Did Jud tell Marty not to play the idol for real? He may have. The underestimation of Jud is ongoing...

Holly feels have to go with the majority, between Dan and Yve.

Dan says he doesn't need the money, doesn't know why he is there.

Benry would rather go to the merge with Dan than Yve.

Chase and NaOnka discussing who needs to go.
Yve campaining, but if she has good relationships that may not be useful but dangerous.

Sloth then Dan

*snerk*

I love it when they use an animal to mimic a Survivor.

But I think the sloths didn't appreciate seeing one of their own being mimicked by Dan.

Sloth Survivor: Outwait, Outlay, Outsleep.

Jud is getting good face time as is Sash.

They are telling Marty it's Jane. We totally nailed this, Congrats to everyone!

Brenda is really sneaky.

ok but she may have been too smart for her own good. If she was really smart she would have switched her vote to Marty (and told no one for fear of what Jud might do) from Kelly B and it would have been a 4-2-2 vote and Marty would have left if he hadn't played the idol.

If he did then the 2-2 tie would have been either KB and Jane or KB and Herself. She had to know that in a revote that only Marty and Jill would have voted for her and the rest would have voted for KB. Possibly Jud may have voted for Brenda but then the dreaded purple rock would have come out and Brenda would have been safe anyway however her alliance mates Sash and KP would have been at risk.

Same if Jane had been the vote getter. Jane would have probably got no votes bc Marty still thinks he "controls" Jane.

Brenda was pretty cocky at TC and she convinced Marty and Jill to vote for her instead of Jane. So she was safe from going home. Maybe she didn't think of it.

ALso, why didn't they have a back up plan if there was a tie and Marty didn't play his idol? Didn't they know Marty would be barred from playing idol on revote? Jiffy didn't ask for any HI before he read the revotes. Why didn't they set it up so that if there was a revote Brenda and KP would switch their votes and for Marty and it would have been 4-2 and Marty left with the idol in his pocket?

Idol discussion.

Brenda says Marty and Jill are the ones voting Jane out, Marty says he didn't offer her up.

Marty feeling less comfortable, and now seeing some duplicity.

Marty suggests Brenda to Jane.

Marty does not play the idol.

Marty
Marty
Martie
Brenda
Brenda
Kelly B
Kelly B
Kelly B

Tie

Marty
Kelly B
Kelly B
Kelly B
Kelly B

Kelly B voted out.

LAST EDITED ON 10-20-10 AT 08:57 PM (EST)

Snidget didn't they show two votes for Marty on the revote?

I only did the read votes, not the ones where they showed who voted for whom.

They only read one Marty vote and the who voted for whom during final words is the first vote.

I could have sworn Jeff read two Marty votes. For maximum suspense he shouldn't have withheld any votes, and both Jane and Kelly B must surely have voted for him again.

KB and Marty weren't allowed to vote so there was only 6 voters. We only saw 5 of those votes and the votes shown while we heard KB's final words were from the first vote.

Oh right, brain fart, Kelly B didn't vote the second time. So Marty got only one vote presumably from Jane? Guess we'll find out on the Insider.

I checked the writing and it was Jane that voted for Marty. Sash (he spelled it Martie) was smart enough to realize that KB was leaving bc Jill was going to vote for her...I don't think Jane thought of it or cared and still voted for Marty she really doesn't like him. Also. next week...her hoarding a fish...not good...but it's Jane and it will seem quirky and wonderful...that's her edit.

They only showed 5 votes, 1 for Marty.

Why didn't they vote Marty since they had him? That was one of the dumbest moves ever even if it would have left an angered Kelly B.

Jill was the one who had to make the determining vote on the revote. She wasn't going to vote for Marty.

Not sure about that. All those who voted for KB originally were free to switch to Marty so I was expecting a 5-1 vote on Marty. That would have been the thing to do.

Good point. They seemed sure he was going to play the idol so maybe they didn't think it necessary to make a revote plan in case he didn't.

LAST EDITED ON 10-20-10 AT 09:32 PM (EST)

Even if they thought he'd be allowed to play the idol, which he wasn't, why not flush it?

ETA. Sorry, I misread what you meant. Yes, they could have been confused and without a plan for this situation but was it that hard to figure out?

I don't know. It does seem like they just didn't think of it.

That seems to be the only thing that makes sense. They're not so brilliant afterall.

Well they did manage to disorient Marty sufficiently. There's always next time.

It's almost as if we had our own chat room! What happened to those?

Again I don't know but I have to leave now.

Maybe LaFlor did assume Marty could and would play his idol on the revote so a revised vote was unnecessary.

The chat rooms went kplooey quite awhile ago. I don't know why, but they were on a different server than the forums.

great minds michel and BR!!

I didn't read this little chat before I posted above about about Brenda being too smart for her own good

they did everything half-a$$ed I guess "chill" doesn't work all the time, huh?

Marty and Jill voted for Brenda.
This is really brilliant! Marty has no idea what's happening and Kelly. B is shocked. Tie vote 3 for Marty 3 for Kelly B.

hmmm....I don't know I think a little Fabio bird may have told him the straight poop to sit on the idol (although his eyes almost popped out of his head!) ...Jud is playing the fence nicely

Revote. Kelly B looks like she already knows she's doomed.

she deserved to go for not doing anything to find out what was happening...why not at least talk to Marty and Jill and Jane

You Don't just sit back in Survivor imho *unless you know it's inevitable that you are going but that was not the case here...she should have questioned the 3-3-2 plan more

Chase, hard to watch that, NaOnka you are not even looking.
Fabio, how is it...so good.

Dan says as long as the ice isn't plunking into a martini it doesn't bother me, says getting voted out would bother me.

Yve says you should hear him around camp, and he wants to quit.
Dan denies he wants to quit.

Jeff fires it up between Dan or Yve.

Off to the vote.

La Flor leaves.

Eve
Dan
Yve
Yve
Yve

Yve voted out.

Sash tries to get the Marty to give up the idol
Jane sneaks a fish by herself
Fabio reveals TMI.

Sash asks Marty for the idol next week. Jane gets sneaky. Jud takes a leak in the pool at a challenge.

LAST EDITED ON 10-20-10 AT 09:34 PM (EST)

Missyae was right, the LaFlor TC was excellent. You are going to love it. Marty is totally outclassed in the strategy department.

Brenda is REALLY slick. She should be the winner just based on tonight.

Glad to finally hear a little bit of game strategy from Chase. But LOL that he only trusts NaOnka. Guess there's still residual distrust from when Benry was pushing him to vote out Brenda over Shannon? It's also interesting how there's been zero discussion of the HII on Espada. And Nay's edit seems to have taken a bit of an upturn -- she actually seemed semi-sane tonight.

Loved Alina's take on Yve. Have to agree that Yve was dumb to play up how she can help them with her relationships come merge.

Loved to see Marty shaken up by Brenda at TC! Seems like he's finally met his match. I'm sure they thought they had rattled his cage enough that he would have played the HII. Can't wait to see the fallout next week.

Re the revote: I think Sash and Brenda considered the tie possibility and the revote. As Sash mentioned, they were obviously hoping to kill 2 birds with 1 stone, but they knew they couldn't necessarily count on Fabio (and Marty/Jill) to vote the way they wanted, so Kelly B was their safest bet tonight. Also, in one of Brenda's comments she said something to the effect of how they couldn't let a pissed-off Kelly B. stick around after tonight's TC....so I guess they knew that once they played their hand with her, they needed her to go.

I just don't know what to make of Jud. One week I really like him and the next week he just seems dumb...and the peeing in the pool -- yuch!

I feel similarly about Jud, but I keep thinking of that Scarlet Pimpernel guy. He was in a tough position because he didn't want to do what he was told in terms of voting, but he successfully acted like his rebellion had no strategy to it.

You notice they had to accommodate him and allowed him to be one of the Kelly B votes, so he got his way without raising any red flags. We know that he's playing the flake on purpose. He's told us that. He's also playing it in most confessionals, but not all.

As a skateboarder and surfer, he must have an excellent sense of balance. You have to hold yourself in position while the environment is turning upside down on you. He seems to blow with the wind, but he couldn't excel at those sports without the ability to be extremely centered. (Both of my sons were skating fanatics, my oldest one especially. He has a very high IQ (165) -- yet he could rad and dude with the best of them. I feel that Jud is intelligent and has his eye on that million dollars at all times.

Does anyone else feel that Brenda was edited as a villain? Were we not rooting for Marty, Jill, Kelly B, Jud to make it through the trap? Brenda, Sash, InvisiKelly, and Jane are not a very appealing alliance. The ones that are audible are mean and cocky both. Don't like them as edited. Don't want them to prevail. But maybe others think Brenda had a break through edit tonight?

Brenda reminds me of Laura in Samoa, a younger non-evangelical version, but still that person who is way too smug about having the tribe wrapped around her finger, and kind of mean to anyone she deems to be on the social fringe.

I agree OFG. While Brenda is a great player, I have found her way too cocky ever since her confessional a few weeks ago where she sat and proclaimed that everyone comes to her and she doesn't have to do anything.

yes, she's taking people for granted, instead of working on how to keep them with her for the long haul. Just being the young chill group is not enough to keep an alliance together to the end.

Successful alliance usually involve solid strategic players with a tight bond, a real loyalty. At some point there is usually temptation to ditch the allies and grab onto the goat. In Brenda's case, she seems to have allied early on with the goats. The goats are her whole game. Goats are no replacement for trustworthy honorable allies.

I dunno...I think Brenda is getting a Parvati edit. Remember Parv's catty remarks about Jason (or was it Erik?) in FvF? I, for one, was rooting against Marty and I was hoping he'd get the boot, even though he's someone I've ranked fairly high on my Love lists so far.

She may think that she has that tight core alliance with the four Brenda Sash Chase and Nay (with KP as a hanger on) but now that the 4 have been split up she's biding her time until merge and she really can't help herself being cocky and entitled..it's who she is imho

her confessional a few weeks ago where she sat and proclaimed that everyone comes to her and she doesn't have to do anything.

I didn't find it obnoxious when she said that, I thought she was just making an observation, and one that seemed accurate based on what we were shown. But by now it seems to have gone to her head.

I thought she was a little smug even back then, but that was just my perception. A lot of people (in the lvoe lists) loved her for that statement.

In my view it was more of a

"Well, this is working out somehow, I better not break it."

type thing.

But I agree with BR, it does seem to have gone to her head, she needs to step up her game. Dismissing Fabio as clueless, she previously said the same of Chase, not a good sign.

I def was rooting for Marty tonite WHat?

I don't like the chill + Jane alliance I like your comparison to Laura (in every way)

Does anyone else feel that Brenda was edited as a villain? Were we not rooting for Marty, Jill, Kelly B, Jud to make it through the trap? Brenda, Sash, InvisiKelly, and Jane are not a very appealing alliance. The ones that are audible are mean and cocky both. Don't like them as edited. Don't want them to prevail. But maybe others think Brenda had a break through edit tonight?

I loved how Brenda discombobulated Marty at TC, but I don't like her personally. I think her "breakthrough" was as the show's new villainess -- she took Marty down a peg, but she was shown to be as cocky as Marty once was. I sense she is going to replace Marty as the one we are supposed to root against now.

OFG and BR, I agree -- I love how Brenda discombobulated Marty, but at the same time I felt that she's becoming too cocky.

In general, I feel like the majority of players this season are not likeable. That's why it's been hard for me to root for anyone. Alina, Jud and Jane are the only ones I like.

I like Alina, Benry, Jud ... funny because I didn't care for the first two by their bios. Maybe I wouldn't like Benry if I heard lots from him, but generally all his comments are solid. He seems to be a little too grounded and practical for the crew he got cast with.

agree!

I'll have to see what your insider thread says about Brenda and her get out Kelly B bc she was pissed off. I still think the better thing to do would have been to take Marty out with the idol in his pocket on revote. KB was never with them anyway and they could deal with KB later (next TC they could even throw the challenge) or after the merge. They would have a majority with Brenda Sash Nay Chase KP Benry Jane and presumably Jane told them she has Holly which she does and so do Chase Nay and Benry

Kelly B had an astute comment in her Day-After clip -- she says that Brenda didn't want her (Kelly B) on the jury because she knows she didn't like her and would never vote for her, and that she'd rather have Marty on the jury. That might be the bottom line in all of this.

LAST EDITED ON 10-21-10 AT 05:29 PM (EST)

Late to this party, I know, but I am in total agreement with all of you. Brenda, as Marty put it, is becoming the black mamba, the black widow and some other kind of spider, and our new villainess. I am glad to see that most of you think she's coming across as smug and arrogant. When she commented about how everyone was coming to her without her doing anything, I took it as an observation. Let's face it, they were. But, since then, her edit is moving south quickly. Great plan for Sash and Brenda to ruffle Marty's feathers at TC, but clearly they had no plan to take him and his idol out of play.

Her own selfish vendetta was her motivation to get Kelly B out, rather than Marty who is far more of a game player and has the idol in his pocket? As I said in the other thread, clearly Brenda is cocky and we all know what happens to people that get too cocky, they get the boot! I sure hope she gets hers soon.

I must admit though, I do like to see Marty with his dander up

Was Marty allowed to play it? Jeff either didn't ask, or it was edited out.

Samboobree, brought to life by Arkie

Jeff says in his blog that Marty could not have played the HII on the revote.

It always seems unclear if the players know all the idol rules though. For example when the idols were found there was no message saying how long they are good for (F5? F4?). Or if there was, we haven't heard about it from anyone.

They have to have been explained the rules clearly from a legal stand point or MB could open himself up to lawsuits. Now whether they paid attention and/or remembered is another story. However I'm sure Jeff explains it at each TC and it is editted out. (ie somehing along the lines of "if anyone has the HI now is the time to play it, before this first vote. It cannot be played in case of a tiebreaker."
Also, it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever that you could play the idol at the revote-- the one disadvantage of the idol is that you have to decide whether to play it BEFORE you know for certain that you are on the chopping block. At a revote you know if you are one of the two names being written down.

Now whether they paid attention and/or remembered is another story.

Yes, and I also meant that in terms of what we are shown it's often hard to tell, as for example we didn't hear anyone articulate last night that Marty wouldn't be able to play the idol on a revote.

I'm sure they are given all the rules about the idol in advance, but when their judgment seems off, as it did to many viewers last night, it makes you wonder if they forgot something.

LAST EDITED ON 10-21-10 AT 07:24 PM (EST)

Or bother to read them at all. One of the big advantages Richard had way back in S1 was exactly this: he read everything they gave him, thought about the game, understood the game, no one else bothered to do that. Well, BB maybe, but he got stuck with Pagong.