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Forum: DCForumID2
Thread Number: 7513
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Original Message
"Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 10-19-10 at 02:30 AM
Don't go if you Don't Wanna Know the Final Three!
*******************************************************************
and now, to fill up the first 200 characters and keep this pure ...

"I am the very model of a modern Major-General,
I've information vegetable, animal, and mineral,
I know the kings of England, and I quote the fights historical
From Marathon to Waterloo, in order categorical;
I'm very well acquainted, too, with matters mathematical,
I understand equations, both the simple and quadratical,
About binomial theorem I'm teeming with a lot o' news,
With many cheerful facts about the square of the hypotenuse."

That should do it, now will Chase cry in front of the jury, or will Jud, and what the heck sin did Sash commit?. Will a rainbow hover over all three?

I am starting this topic for people who are willing to open this topic because they already know the F3 or want to know. I want a place for these folks to speak freely about how the new "customs' in this forum are working for them -- without fear of hurting anyone's feelings in the unspoiled community.

If it seems like there are enough people who care, we can start a more general topic or maybe the mods will give a ruling on whether guidelines are changing?

Remember when we didn't post warnings that we were including spoilers in Spoiler forum topics? When we didn't need two topics to discuss episode teasers, or a third to discuss the season as a whole? When we could incorporate source spoiler knowledge in our analysis of vidcaps and teasers in the topics of the week? When we could vote and refer to future episode considerations? I do, and I miss that!

Here are the current guidelines at RTVW concerning Spoilers.
_________

XI. KEEP "SPOILERS" IN THE SPOILERS FORUMS... OR OTHERWISE CLEARLY MARKED
Much of the discussion in this community revolves around "spoilers" -- known upcoming events in one of the TV shows that the discussion forums follow. However, some of the members of the RealityTVWorld.com community prefer to enjoy these shows without knowing about the upcoming events until they are broadcast.

Therefore, for certain shows, we have created a special forum dedicated to spoilers (such as the "Survivor Spoilers Forum"). For those shows with a spoilers forum, please limit discussion of spoilers to that forum and do not post spoilers, or links to spoilers, in other forums. For those shows without a dedicated spoilers forum, we ask that you clearly indicate in the subject line of your post that the topic contains spoiler information and ensure that no spoiler content is revealed within the first 200 characters of your message body (since this text may also appear on the forum's topic listing page.)
-------

The Guidelines are clear enough. Only for shows with no dedicated Spoiler forum is it necessary to put warnings in headings and clean up the beginning of the message body. It has now become the practice here, due to pressure from members who don't want source spoilers, to do the same in Spoilers.

What this means to me is that I have to censor my knowledge and thoughts in most topics on this forum. Makes it really hard to have a conversation that isn't fragmented. I don't want to discuss how the season shapes up in the confines of a 200 post topic. It becomes too difficult when the topic is that long.

But where are people to hide from source spoilers for Survivor? Well, there happens to be an entire forum where spoilers are banned -- Survivor Fanatics. A safe place for all.

I started posting in Spoilers in 2001, 9 1/2 years ago. There were no limitations on posting spoilers -- other than if you spewed idiotic babble you would get flamed by Shakes the Clown.

I have every respect for people's desire to remain unspoiled, and I have no problem confining spoiler knowledge to this forum. I don't understand why those who want to remain unspoiled are finding it necessary to put down spoiler folks as if we are too lazy to think for ourselves, and so forth.

I look at spoiling the game a bit like having a conversation about current events and how they will affect the future. While I could try making predictions without any knowledge of what's up in the world, I'd rather not. I'm not trying to prove that I have psychic or predictive powers. I'm trying to use the best information I can get to figure out stuff that is still unknown.

If I know the boot, yes it's boring to speculate about who's the boot. However, I'd still like to figure out who is the alt target, and why. I'd like to know who comes in second place in the individual immunity. There is still plenty to figure out each week, but it's getting hard to have a spoiling conversation here without feeling like I'm tiptoeing around a minefield.

There are a number of folks choosing to go unspoiled recently whom I simply adore. I miss having conversations with them, but what can I do? With some posters, just the fact that I am known to follow source spoilers makes anything I say subject to scrutiny for content that is "under the influence." And I'm not ashamed of being influenced! I'm not vying for fame, and frankly I feel I have already proved my ability to spoil adequately in seasons where we didn't know anything.

I spoke to Veruca about her wishes for the editing topic, and she told me that she always knew and expected that people posting in the topic would be posting under the influence of source knowledge, and she had no problem with that nor did she wish to exclude them. ALL she wished to exclude was the posting of actual spoilers. A very realistic goal, and one I have always respected.

It is just not fun to post in that topic if some of the people in it announce they won't read anything written by posters XYZ. It gets in the way of having a group conversation. What if ABC want to incorporate what XYZ said in their post? It's gone too far, IMHO.

Am I the only one who wants a Spoiler forum where spoilers aren't treated as the equivalent of spoiling the fun? There is no "Source Spoiler" forum, so that leaves a) Sucks; b) private boards; c) emails. Wow, I never thought I would consider Sucks as the better forum for spoiling the show.

Despite my obvious bias, I'm definitely interested in hearing what you all think. I don't imagine I'm indispensable, and I know the forum will go on without me around. It is possible, though, that there is still a group of Blows posters who wants to spoil "by any means available" -- thus I bring it up.

I hope it goes without saying that I defer to whatever the mods decide. I did PM all three of them, but that was three or more days ago and I didn't hear anything back yet. Perhaps they need more people to say that they want a ruling.

Here are two current conversations in Fanatics on remaining unspoiled, to present the other side of the conversation:
http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID4/5014.shtml
http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID4/5017.shtml
Reading these topics makes me feel akin to a toxic contaminant that got maliciously released into the community.

But these topics also tell me that people who seriously want to remain unspoiled don't look at ANY topics in the Spoiler forum other than Editing, so all our efforts to segregate stuff in the rest of the forum don't matter to them. The segregation does matter to a third group who wants to spoil enough to be exposed to whatever spoilers are in play for the current week only. That group is my biggest concern, as I really would prefer that everyone is happy on the playground.


My only partially confirmed spoiled/spec list as of Ep 6:
Kelly B/Yve, Jill, Alina, Marty, Brenda, Na Onka, Kelly Purple, Benry, Dan, Jane, Holly, Sash, Chase, Jud -- JUD wins! Subject to change.

Table of contents
Messages in this discussion
"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? "
Posted by kircon on 10-19-10 at 05:31 AM
Thank you Outfrontgirl for voicing the thoughts in my head. I have been quite confused by the attitude of my friends also. I came to this site because of the SOTS. I could not sleep after my son took his life. This site was safe for me. I could not have survived Sucks. I spent time reading and lurking and spoiling on my own. I was not good at it but I fell in love with it. I determined that I would write a SOTS some day. I did! I believe the first three I wrote, I (we) got the boot wrong. I feel that I have matured as a spoiler. I have studied for many years. And this season, I decided to spend most of my energy on spoiling. However, like you, I feel like toxic sludge. I do not understand why it is evil to “want to know”. Nobody wants to write the SOTS’s because of so many rules.

I have known the Boot List for the last few seasons. I have enjoyed each and every show. A lot of the time, I can’t believe how they got from point A to point B. Spoiling does not take away any joy or fun from watching Survivor. I feel for me it enhances it.

I am having the same issues with the PTTE game. For seasons, I have been trying to work out how to make it a fair game. I came up with the idea of using PM’s this season. A green game. I thought about posting a game in the Fanatics forum for the unspoiled. But, we have a Game Forum for games.
What to do?

My feeling is:
This IS the Spoiler Forum.
The SOTS could focus on weekly events but still link any important future spoiling with a warning.
I believe many come to read and gain insight for whatever reason.
It is called: State Of The Spoiling to report what we have found and discussed.
It includes total spoiling of the game and not just the week to come.
I am proud when Krautboy receives kudos from missyeye for good spoiling.
I love when TDT’s mentions us.
You and many others would be a great loss if you left.
I am not responsible for others lack of self-control.
Do not blame me if you click on a boot-spoiling thread and find out the final three.
I love Blows. It has played an important part in my healing from my son’s death.
I love the friends I have met.
I love to spoil!
I want to spoil "by any means available"


"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by samboohoo on 10-19-10 at 09:07 AM
I think the fact that you click on the link that says, "Spoilers Forum" should be enough to know you are entering a forum where there will be spoilers, no matter what they are.

I miss the old days of hard core spoiling, but I'm also in a position where I can't devote that much time to it.

I always try to read the SOTS, I can't always read the SOTS. I come into Spoilers to look at Vidcaps, to look at clues, to read the SOTS. Some of the threads - especially the Missyae threads are so long, I don't have time to really get through them. So there are many weeks I go in knowing the likely boot, but still being surprised by something.

I would love to read the editing threads, but I just can't.


Samboobree, brought to life by Arkie


"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by GOOU on 10-19-10 at 09:16 AM
wow - since the forum is titled "Survivor Spoilers Forum" it seems to me that everyone should understand there will be spoilers (whether sourced or educated, and very often correct, guesses based on detailed analysis)

I am definitely a "lurker" - have been for years - but this is my favorite site and I would hate for you "OFG" or any of my favorite contributors to move to Sucks or another spoiling site.

Geesh - I hope this works out - I love to read everyone else's thoughts and observations (and even their comments on the sourced spoilers).

Like the previous comment, I find it enjoyable to know ahead of time whose torch might be snuffed - for example, I had no idea why Tyrone would be the one going and was anxious to see what he might do during the episode to make the majority vote for him - I was not disappointed - the episode explained it.

Anyhoo - please don't leave - I suspect there are many, many lurkers like me who enjoy all the comments but just don't post.

I love this site!

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by Travelor on 10-19-10 at 09:20 AM
LAST EDITED ON 10-19-10 AT 09:24 AM (EST)

I want to thank you for doing a section strictly for spoilers. For me personally, the show is so much more interesting when I know somewhat what is going to happen. I am relatively new to spoilers as I did not know they existed, but once I found such information it was a whole new world for me. Keep up the great work and I love this forum.

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by Snidget on 10-19-10 at 09:29 AM
I certainly don't want the spoilers to leave or feel the are contaminating the forum.

I do like when they don't announce the spoiler in the title of the spoiler because I use the "read new" and so I get all the headlines of all fora whether I want to be spoiled or not.

I'm one of those that likes to be a little bit spoiled, but sometimes find there can be "too much" some seasons and it does become hard to be lightly spoiled when a bunch of people already knows every detail of everything and you shouldn't be expected to hold your tongue.

So while I'm not avoiding spoilers completely, I'm lightly reading on occasion. I'm not keeping track of who is how spoiled so I tend to avoid whole threads rather than specific posters.

I don't know how much of the drop off in ECST is from DVRing and how much from people just avoiding the spoilers forums all together, and you can't really put them anywhere else. Not sure how to get people to participate more. I like "talking" to people during the show, but it seems that isn't something people like to do anymore.

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by samboohoo on 10-19-10 at 10:17 AM
For me, I'm DVRing. I would love to watch and talk, but we're not set up at home that way.

The 8 p.m. hour is a hard hour for me to be able to just sit and watch and talk. It's the heart of shower/bed time for a first grader. Also, our laptop is downstairs, and DH is usually on it then. He doesn't really sit down to watch Survivor anymore. I miss it.


Samboobree, brought to life by Arkie


"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by emydi on 10-19-10 at 10:01 AM
amen

I agree on your boot list exactly!

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by Estee on 10-19-10 at 11:48 AM
"You can't fight in here! This is the War Room!"

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by Rayne on 10-19-10 at 03:28 PM
OFG - Even though I am a lurker not a poster I totally agree with you. I used to love reading the editing thread just to "hear" people's thoughts. This season it seemed so venomous in there I stopped reading it. I explored all the boards about 5 years ago when I started watching Survivor and as soon as I stumbled on blows I felt like I was among friends even though I don't post often. Over the last 2 seasons it has become very petty and it seems like the posters here would rather argue than debate. I slowly see blows becoming more and more like sucks so I am even more tentative to post for fear of being ridiculed.
"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 10-19-10 at 09:21 PM
It's great to get feedback! I'm so pleased to have voices appear from those of you who read but don't post much.

Kircon, wow, what a touching post.

Hope to hear from some more people, and would really like to hear suggestions on how it could best work. Snidget, so what you are saying is you don't need warnings on the topics and you don't need to have spoilers restricted to certain topics, but you don't want spoilers IN the main topic headings?

Most of our topic headings are pretty generic anyway. Now if skierdude from S2 were still around, he would post a subject like "I Called Brenda as the Black Widow!" or "Jud Wins, Dude" -- but we don't get that sort of thing these days.

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by Snidget on 10-19-10 at 09:38 PM
Usually the only time we have a lot of issues with the spoiler headlines are more when there is something that uproars a bunch of newbies.

Most of the regulars are good about keeping the headlines pretty generic. That does make it a bit safer to pop in for an ECST or to look at the vidcaps and stuff like that. Mostly as the generic types of threads tend to get more discussion going than a way too specific headline.

I don't care so much if people who know source spoilers refer to them in other threads as part of their discussion of things that happen in other threads.

I don't think we have too many who just use their posting time to restate the source spoilers all over the place. Basically as long as the discussion is the main thing I don't mind some source spoilers showing up in other spoiler discussion. I mean I want to hear what you think, not just people parroting that such and so said such and such. It is nice to have a thread that collects all the spoilers from a particular source, but I don't feel that people need to pretend they never read that thread in the spoiler forum.

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 10-19-10 at 10:20 PM
Makes sense. A lot of times there is a reason to mention future spoilers in the argument. Bear in mind that for most of the season, it hasn't been clear at all how alliances would play out and why certain things would happen. In figuring out how things will go this week, spoiler peeps pull from the entire bank of spoilers.

Other times it is simply not useful to get involved in spec along certain lines because we know it doesn't go down like that.

I don't gratuitously insert spoilers, and don't know of anyone here who does. The problem with not being able to talk about later in the game is it's a royal pain to only use partial logic, and I simply don't want to have that constraint.

I feel the same way about the vote topic.

Another thing that should be said is that missyae has not put out a boot list. He has said the boot during the week of ...

Someone else spoiled the F3 -- ooberfan. missyae wanted to leave suspense on that, and has left suspense in a lot of things. Figuring out the boot order that I spec on in my sig line above has taken a heck of a lot of work, collective work. It has been everything that I consider spoiling, putting together nuances and clues to figure out the whole picture. It's hardly been a case of sit back and get told everything and have it handed over with a bow.

Krautboy has done some particularly impressive work, but we've all done good. So I suppose that makes it more irritating to encounter the "I prefer not to have everything handed to me" line that has been in the air.

The long missyae topic has been really difficult to work with -- very cumbersome. I like the idea of having one topic to collect the actual spoiler comments, but I think that our spec on those comments should be in separate topics. Actually, it would be a lot easier if we could label those topics.

Sample topics -- how does the Brenda boot go down?
Why does Na Onka quit?
How Does Dan survive?
How Does Fabio Make it to F3?

We shouldn't be trying to work out questions that could take up entire topics in the main spoiler compilation topic. It's just a nightmare tangle.

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by Snidget on 10-20-10 at 09:31 AM
I kind of assumed (bad I know) that the source spoilers this season gave everything away as that was how the last couple of season felt.

Hard to know if they are going to change their ways and leave something to the imagination this time when it seems that hasn't been the general source spoiler M.O. for awhile, at least collectively.

That may be where the "I don't want it handed to me" is coming from.

I can understand why a source spoiler might feel the need to prove they know all, or know more than someone else. It can be hard to balance the feeling people believe you know what you are talking about with how much is fun and how much is being a spoil sport. (and I do think there can be people that find being the spoil sport is what makes it fun for them. )

Add that and each person reading has their own line where they stop having fun and there is likely to be some blow back from a few seasons where things felt too spoiled for too many people.

While I did enjoy the seasons even knowing too much (for me), I kind of am enjoying not knowing so much this season and I've not been seeking out info like I usually do.

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by kiki_k on 10-19-10 at 11:25 PM
I have been a lurker here for years (I used to post a long time ago mainly in the Off Topic Forum but life has gotten in the way of that; I do enjoy lurking here, though).

However, I am taking the time to de-lurk to beg you to please keep spoiling here -- I can't abide those other spoiling
site(s) and this is the only place I like to go for spoilers. The spoiling by OFG, KB & others makes my viewing of Survivor much more enjoyable.

Like others in this thread, I really don't understand the controversy -- this is the Spoilers Forum -- it is in the name. The Survivor Fantic and Survivor Basher Forums are for those who don't want to be spoiled (or so I thought).

A solution may be to move Veruca's editing posts (which I love, btw, but on which I only read Veruca's posts because the thread gets too long, so I probably missed the fighting others in this thread have mentioned) the Survivor Fanatic Forum, because it isn't really a "spoiling" thread, it is more of a "speculation" thread. If it was in the Fanatics Forum people should be warned and/or know not to put spoilers in the thread.

I hope this controversy can be solved because I would hate to lose this place, even though I only lurk. So, basically, I'm saying to OFG, KB & all the others who work so hard on spoiling Survivor on this board: keep up the good work! It is greatly appreciated even though I don't post.


compliments of GeorgiaBelle

All happy families resemble one another, but each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 10-20-10 at 09:50 PM
thanks so much, Kiki, and everyone who is posting (don't want to be dominating topic by replying to each post or I would say thanks to each).

I do want to say this is not about ME saying I'm going to run off if I don't get my way. I probably shouldn't have mentioned leaving. I said so because I do find the current system nonfunctional -- but I want it fixed so it will be functional for all spoilers, not because I think I'm important. There have been numerous seasons that I was barely around, and something I love about this forum is that it keeps on rolling even though individual posters take breaks for IRL reasons or whatever.

Second, I want to be clear where I stand on the editing topic being in Spoilers. I have no problems whatsoever with giving that topic special treatment. The way Veruca analyzes edits, her comments are close to science, and belong in Spoilers.

I wish, since it is her topic really, and she herself welcomes spoiled peeps to post in it, that all the participants would be equally accepting. The rule is no spoilers posted, such as "this is the boot; this is the winner; this is the F4." The rule isn't that only people with "pure" thoughts can give their editing impressions. The consideration in that topic is given to Veruca, and only Veruca, and if other people want a more pure topic, maybe they should post their own editing topic in Fanatics.

Third thing, I know at least two people who are major contributors to the forum who are going semi-spoiled, on a weekly basis, CTgirl and FlowerPower. Probably there are more, but I happened to see CT say so on the Fanatics topic, and FloPo mentioned something to me, not sure how much she is reading. Obviously we want the weekly vidcap topic up and running.

Perhaps it's time for a conversation where everyone can vote on how to make it work. I know I would like for the weekly episode topic to be open to all spoilers. I don't have a problem with keeping them out of the ECST. Maybe the vidcaps topic could have the current spoilers for the week but hold back on the spoilers that go more into the future.

As for the SOTS, that's a tough one. The STATE of the Spoiling ought to include an update on what was learned this week, ought it not? It's for people to catch up on the progress who may not have time to read all the topics.

Maybe the long term spoilers could be put in hidden font, so that it's there but you don't see it unless you highlight?

Oh, and before anyone suggests doing hidden font in other topics, please please no, I cannot stand having to highlight everything in case there might be something invisible. If we do any hidden font, I would hope it will be clearly marked that it's there.

Looking for solutions that will include all the people who keep the major topics going week after week.


"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by Krautboy on 10-20-10 at 02:23 AM
Outfrontgirl, the fact you started this discussion and that the members of the SurvivorBlows have the common courtesy and respect for each others concerns and opinions is exactly why this has been my favorite board since I first started spoiling late S1. This is my spoiling home, and I am proud of the friends I have made, and the spoiling we have done here together over the years. The people who post here have created a culture that encourages common courtesy and respect, thoughtful spoiling, and a mutual interest in the same hobby. That should never change.

The thing that has changed is the nature of the sourced spoilers, the amount of information provided and the reliability of it. Spoiling and speculation used to go hand in hand, without knowing for sure what was fact and what was rumor. Our speculation filled in all the holes between the occasional rumor of a sourced spoiler, but doubt was always present, and confirmation was always up to us. We were all "unspoiled" until the actual airing of the episode, when we found out if we had bragging rights or not.

The last few seasons Spoiling the Spoilers is all we've really been left with, but for many, that was unsatisfactory and they chose to stay away from the Spoiler forum and go "unspoiled".

"Spoiler Alerts" and warnings have evolved as a courtesy to allow those who are in the gray area between being spoiled and unspoiled, to continue to participate in this forum.

It seems apparent now that while it was a nice gesture, it failed to satisfy the needs of either camp, and now no one is really happy because the rules are not clearly defined.

I think the best solution would be for this Spoiler Forum to go back to being the place where spoilers, including sourced information, can be openly discussed without concern for the unspoiled. Those who chose to be unspoiled should steer clear of this forum, but continue to post freely in the other forums which are to be spoiler free, and clearly labeled as such.

As for Verucasalts Editing thread and other spoiler free threads, they would probably be better posted in the other forums, where spoilers with sourced knowledge would still be able to read them, but encouraged not comment on them.

If we need to include a "Spoiler Alert" at the top of each thread in this forum, as a courtesy, that's fine, but it would be nice to discuss and spoil freely without worrying about offending those who would prefer to remain unspoiled.

Those who want to remain unspoiled, have the best chance of achieving that if they know where spoilers are being discussed and are clearly warned to avoid that place.



Krautboy

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by marebear79 on 10-20-10 at 09:18 AM
Hear hear Krautboy! I am also a long-time lurker--I love this spoiling community and I don't go a week without catching up on all the threads here. I would hope that the fact that it is a spoiler forum would be enough to keep those who wish to remain unspoiled away from it. If they choose to read and then become spoiled, well-what did they expect?

I hope that all of the wonderful contributors to this board remain--although I don't know any of you personally, I feel a connection with all of you as we discuss and analyze a show we all clearly enjoy and into which we have invested ten years of our lives!

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by Nightsky on 10-20-10 at 10:01 AM
I am also a long time lurker. I love the spoiling. I feel if someone does NOT want to be spoiled then they should not go on any survivor threads.
"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 10-20-10 at 09:56 PM
Another brilliant analysis by Krautboy.

>>> "Spoiler Alerts" and warnings have evolved as a courtesy to allow those who are in the gray area between being spoiled and unspoiled, to continue to participate in this forum.

>>> It seems apparent now that while it was a nice gesture, it failed to satisfy the needs of either camp, and now no one is really happy because the rules are not clearly defined.

Yes, that is exactly how things came to this point. Out of consideration for others that was not requred, which then became expected by some.

I think a lot of it started with the first missyae topic for HvV. Because it was such a long time in advance of broadcast that the whole boot list came out, it seemed natural to quarantine the boot list until at least the premiere of the season.

I remember though, that after the premiere, there was at least one complaint when a source spoiler came out of the quarantine -- as if there was now a protocol for source spoilers to be confined to specially marked topics.

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by SquidProQuo on 10-20-10 at 11:40 PM
It's great to see so many newer posters participating in this thread -- I really hope all of you please stick around .

Seems to me there's a clear consensus that the main reason we all participate here is because of the congenial atmosphere and the excellent spoiling in a friendly (vs. flaming) environment. To me, that's what always set Blows apart -- and that's why it has felt kinda weird lately that there's been a bit of an "us vs. them" vibe (from only a few people) about those of us who are "spoiled" and how we can or cannot participate in certain threads.

OFG, I agree, I'd love to see the Weekly Boot Discussion thread open to all spoilers. And we should be able to bring at least that week's spoiling info in to the Clues, SOTS and Vidcap discussions as well. Also, I noticed recently that Sucks has a "Speculation" Forum -- just wondering if we need something like that here at Blows for those people who want to do their own spoiling but stay "pure"? Or is Fanatics enough? Maybe that's a separate discussion for the Fanatics thread.

Thanks again for bringing this conversation out into the open!

P.S. Kircon, your post really touched me. I've had several losses this past month so I know how having an outlet like this can help take your mind off things.

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by ReefHopr on 10-21-10 at 01:41 AM
I used to go to Sucks but got tired of the constant disrespect shown to people and the language. So I started coming to Blows and have never regretted the decision!

I don't mind spoilers in the least and I can understand people that don't want to read spoilers. However, if they want to read other postings in Blows, they are and have always been clearly marked. Part of this site after all is for spoiling!

There are so many people on here that have amazed me with their spoiling abilities because I am the world's worst spoiler which is why I lurk. Everyone here makes the site enjoyable whether there are flat out 'this this and this will happen' spoilers or if you all figure it out yourself.

So keep up your usual great work and thanks for making Survivor my 'never miss' show of the week!

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 10-25-10 at 01:16 AM
Seems like this discussion has died down, and the consensus is that people who read the forum expect spoilers and want them. Wow, a lot of nice things were said that I never expected, so thanks very much! It's a real pleasure to see new faces emerge.

I posted an S22 topic today without scary warnings. At the same time, I did keep the big surprise info from showing up under the heading, and the topic is clearly labeled Source spoiler. No Don't Go if ... I don't think it is necessary.

I won't have time to start any new conversation this week until near the end of it, but I still want to broaden the discussion to include people who didn't want to open this topic, so it's on my list.

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by Smoochie on 10-25-10 at 08:41 PM
As you can see I don't post often, but have to agree with many here. I have been lurking here for I don't even know how long and would hate to see it change. It's a spoiling site and that's why I come here, be it a more confirmed spoiler or speculation based on available spoilers. I choose which threads I read and how closely I'll follow them. I originally found Sucks but, honestly, can't stand that site and the time it often takes to sift thru the flames, insults and garbage to find something worth reading.

For what it's worth, I love, love, love the editing thread by Veruca and others and read it all every year, amazing what they see and I miss weekly! However, if those in it choose not to be spoiled or don't want to be spoiled to read it, maybe it would be better served posted in a different forum as it is purely speculation based on the show as it airs and the editing, not influenced by any spoiling.

Just my 2 cents!

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by Lolly on 10-28-10 at 02:02 AM
I'm late to the party, and I rarely post, but I would like to ditto KB's response.

*smooches*

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by Brownroach on 10-28-10 at 02:26 AM
And yet *another* someone who never posts on this board has responded specifically to this thread. This is great, I do expect to see all of you contributing to the spoiling from now on, since you feel so strongly about this. Smooches!
"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by Lolly on 10-29-10 at 02:43 AM
I started reading SB not long after Webby (along with the Ayatollah and maybe Sleeeve, too, IIRC) graciously set up the site as a safe haven for Sucks-abused fans of the new reality show. I'm sure Ayak can set me straight on that. *grin*

I'm primarily a reader. Frankly, my brain works too slow to contribute much. I have contributed in other forums, but it's insignificant.

You guys are amazing and I love to read your insights. I took a two-year hiatus from Survivor and started back with this season. The Spoiler forum is my home base, the place I always go to first when I come here. Throughout the years, the place changed: people come; people go;the game changed;and spoiling evolved. When I came back from the hiatus,however, it seemed to me that the Spoiler forum had devolved.

As I said before, KB succinctly expresses my response to OFG's questions. Yes, I do feel strongly about the issues OFG presents to the community. And I probably should be more vocal in expressing my deep appreciation to all of you who share your clever brains with the rest of us.

But, darlin', if you insist, I will make a contribution . . . somehow. Most of the time the only thoughts I have are "Hmmmmm," "Yeah," "Huh?," and "Jeez, s/he is brilliant." *grin*

muchas smooches

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by grit on 10-28-10 at 11:09 AM
I never post in Spoilers - well, except for today.

I read Spoilers a lot.

I'm an adult - I know that spoiler information exists in the Spoiler Forum.

Anybody who complains that they read spoiler information in the Spoiler Forum should be mocked unmercilessly.

I like to know who goes home each episode or who wins the entire season in advance because I love to watch how the editing unfolds. I hate it when the editing strings you along - I like to be on the inside of what they're showing us.

So, people, keep spoiling for me. I may not be posting here but I'm enjoying everything I read.


I got sliced!

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by Brownroach on 10-29-10 at 04:34 PM
I think you meant "mercilessly", Upstater. (ducks)
"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by Brownroach on 10-28-10 at 12:26 PM
Since this thread is still more or less open, something occurred to me that I thought I'd mention.

First of all, I agree the warnings are out of hand -- I mean the idea that Kircon felt the need to post a warning on the SOTS thread is comically absurd.

To me, warnings are unnecessary in this Forum, but I think they initially served another purpose in the source spoiler threads. If you title a thread "The So-and-So Spoilers" it's obvious what's in the thread, but I think the warning just became an easily-remembered way to open the thread to ensure that nothing spoilerish would leak onto the index page, where it can't be deleted. So if people want to continue to use it for that purpose in the source spoiler threads, then fine.

As long as spoilers aren't posted in a way that they're visible on the index page, I feel that's a sufficient accommodation to the folks who don't want to know everything. My feeling is that those folks have already decided which threads they are and aren't going to read anyway.

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by CTgirl on 10-28-10 at 01:24 PM
Ditto. Well said BR.
"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 10-28-10 at 04:47 PM
CT, I guess if you opened this thread you are OK with the season spoilers. Good, you were one I was most concerned about.

BR, to go back to a problem that doesn't relate to the topics of threads:
a perception has emerged that weekly episode related topics won't have spoilers going beyond that week. I have had at least two vocal complaints this season in such topics when there was a mere mention of a later development that we know from spoilers.

So my question is, do we just go back to having all threads but Editing spoiled equally? I would vote for that. The vote topic as well? I would like that too. Sometimes the reason I would vote for so and so this week is that this other person goes next week.

How do the rest of you feel about vote topic reasoning?

Like BR, I find it very cool that you guys who are normally readers are posting. I hope you know that just because some of us (like me) like to talk a lot, doesn't mean we don't welcome other voices. OTOH, I totally get just liking to read, as there are forums that I read but am not even registered.

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by LFJ on 10-29-10 at 09:57 AM
The distinction of "Source Spoilers" is a helpful red flag for those who like to do it themselves.

Some of the people that contribute to this forum have unique, artistic methods of evaluating/analysing the material presented to them vis a vis the Vidcaps, Editing, Titles - all of the minutiae that is involved in an Episode. They prefer to think their way through the episode based upon the particular talents they bring to the Forum, as opposed to accidentally stumbling upon a copy of a post from another forum that details the boots.

When I first started reading the "spoilers" a few years ago, the SOTS was my favorite thing to read. It was entertaining to see someone lay out all of the "evidence" and from that, extrapolate a boot. Now, not so much fun. "Time To Vote" was also fun to read, to see who was voting for what player. Now, everyone (almost) votes for the same player. I loved the Editing Thread. You don't see many posts from the talented Spoilers on a lot of the threads anymore because there IS so much pollution (Missy, BW, TDT, etc.) copied onto these threads.

I understand why some of the posters want to maintain their "innocence", if you will, for lack of a better word, and think that this "Source Spoiler" type warning is the best way to mitigate the situation. This allows everyone to enjoy the Forum in their own way.

Rather than confine a lot of the really good analytical minds to one or two threads, why not keep the "Source Spoilers" safely tucked away in one place? Like this?

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by Chez on 10-29-10 at 12:33 PM
I too read spoilers a lot but don't post too much because I am not very good at spoiling.

Some of my friends who watch Survivor can't understand why I like to read spoilers and know ahead who is (most likely) going home, or going to win the game. One reason for me is I was so, so, so disappointed in the seasons before I found this board at who won the game that I practically hated Survivor. This was in Marquesas and Thailand. I was extremely disappointed at both those winners.

Then during Amazon I discovered this board, and gained the insight of Chill One. I still was not a fan of the winner that season but knowing ahead of time helped me to brace myself.

Then there have been the seasons where I was hoping against hope that an unlikely but "heroic" outcome would occur (the Aitu 4 in Cook Island), and I enjoyed resting more easily by knowing it would work out against all odds.

It's strange, I love reading mystery books and thrillers, but I never read the last page before I get to it. In fact sometimes if I think something exciting is going to be revealed on a page I'm reading, I will block it out with a piece of paper so I'm forced to read 1 line at a time.

Oh, well, guys, keep it up.

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 10-29-10 at 10:04 PM
>>> Rather than confine a lot of the really good analytical minds to one or two threads, why not keep the "Source Spoilers" safely tucked away in one place? Like this?

If it were working to do that, I wouldn't have started this topic.
If a topic is source spoiler free, that means that we can't use the best available evidence and generally don't take the topic to the level that interests me. People are working to figure out stuff that I already know, and while they may enjoy that, I don't, and neither would most spoilers. Spoilers by nature are looking for a challenge.

In order to start with what we know and figure out the next level. we have to start a separate vidcaps topic, teaser topic, interview topic, blog topic, etc.. It's way too clunky. As for the season-long source spoiler topics, they become too long and convoluted to navigate very quickly. There's a reason that we start new spoiling topics for each episode.

The result of these restrictions is that people who are spoiled may prefer to just use emails or set up private forums where it's not necessary to deal with complaints.

My question is, what's keeping the unspoiled analytical minds from working in Fanatics, which is by guidelines spoiler free?

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by LFJ on 10-30-10 at 00:55 AM
"My question is, what's keeping the unspoiled analytical minds from working in Fanatics, which is by guidelines spoiler free?"

Well...obviously nothing, if, they want to. I don't see many, if any of their names here. When they do post in Spoilers, it is on specific threads, like Editing, Vidcaps...where they are not apt to stumble upon copies of Missy/BW/TDT spoilers.

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 10-30-10 at 04:37 AM
I think source spoilers should be a normal part of the conversation in the Vidcaps topic. For years those topics have been open to any and all spoilers. An unspoiled vidcaps topic could be posted in Fanatics if anyone wanted to do it.
"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by LFJ on 10-30-10 at 10:07 AM
Yes. I see that. Where everyone was speculating, there is now, no more speculation. But...everyone to their own spoilage.
"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by dabo on 10-30-10 at 10:06 PM
My question is, what's keeping the unspoiled analytical minds from working in Fanatics, which is by guidelines spoiler free?

Webby and the blues are entrusted to enforce bans on spoiling in designated forums such as Fanatics. Why should anyone risk violating those bans simply because they are avoiding source spoiling?

Where is it written that analytical spoiling is not spoiling? While it is true that not everything analytical is spoiling, this is the forum for spoiling regardless of whether that spoiling employs rumors, leaks, hoaxes, analytical tools, vidcap analyses, game theory, astrology, airplane/hotel reservations, yadda yadda yadda.

I think you have reached the point where you should open this discussion to all concerned.

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by Round Robin on 10-31-10 at 00:43 AM
For Pete's sake, this is the freaking spoilers forum. When you see that word in the title, you oughta know you might encounter spoilers of any type here, and if you want to guarantee 100% that you avoid all source spoilers, there are other forums both here and elsewhere where no spoilers are allowed. A forum that is specifically titled the Spoilers Forum should be open season for all spoilers, and non-spoiler topics should be posted elsewhere, and those of us who want to post or read spoilage should not have to walk on eggshells here. End of story.
"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by dabo on 10-31-10 at 03:54 PM
It doesn't bother me when I encounter those spoilers, I expect it. I am ignoring missy and source spoilers in general this season for one reason: I am responsible for how I have my own fun around here. So much detail has been coming from sources the past year or so that it has taken some of the fun out of the hunt, the pastime of spoiling. But, as I say, I do expect to encounter some of that, it is pretty much unavoidable, always has been. On the other hand I am fully aware that source spoilers are not absolutely reliable; Roger never broke his leg falling from a horse, except maybe for the wooden kind he never even got near a horse, thank you Uncle Cameraman.

The conversation on this thread by design, by OFG's intent when she started this thread, excludes almost everyone except those who are paying attention to source spoilers. Most people aren't going to bother to figure out that source spoiling isn't really the topic here, it's pretty safe to switch to expanded mode and bypass OFG's initial post to follow this thread; most people avoiding source spoilers are going to just see the warning and be warned away. Fair enough. This is pretty much an exclusive thread, and it is nice to see so many people showing up in support of OFG and source spoiling.

If, however, this conversation is going to degenerate into some lunacy regarding what is and isn't valid spoiling, in fairness that conversation should not exclude anyone. But let's be clear, also, that the administration of this site is self-empowered to determine what is and isn't spoiling, that it is so empowered for the sole purpose of keeping spoiler-free certain forums here where spoiling is banned. Is spoiler-intended analytical speculation not spoiling? This is divisive. I would prefer to see the posters of Blows come together, to understand that everyone is responsible for having their own fun around here, different strokes for different folks, live and let live.

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 10-31-10 at 08:40 PM
dabo, I hear you about the topic being ready for more posters. My intent in making this topic more exclusive was to give people a chance to say how they feel without feeling the need to censor themselves so as not to hurt feelings. I think it accomplished that. I also wanted to conduct a bit of a survey on our demographics, to see who was willing to read this topic.

Also, there are entire topics discussing going unspoiled in Fanatics. which I linked, so rather than look at it that people were excluded, I look at it that this offered a chance to speak to people who felt unwelcome in the other topic(s), which I certainly did feel.

As to starting a new topic, please feel free to do so. Seriously, I'd love it. I have a whole bunch of stuff on my plate --including a wicked toothache and the imminent prospect of oral surgery, so I don't have the energy to start a new topic.

I will say in response to your "everyone is responsible for having their own fun around here" thought.

1) I thought I was taking responsibility for that by choosing to post mainly in a Spoiler forum.

2) It is one thing to "play" amidst spoilers and semi-ignore them or take them with a grain of thought. It's not comparable to being put in the position where my analysis has to be altered in order to censor out stuff that is integral to my thinking -- which is what has been happening more and more over the last three seasons.

I'm willing to do that in the Editing topic, but not the balance of the forum.

3) Analytical thinking is not spoiling in the sense that is discussed in spoiler bans. A spoiler is a (claimed) piece of knowledge about what will happen on the show, that comes from someone who has obtained that knowledge from some source other than thinking about the show.

Analytical thinking is speculation that may be right, part right, or dead wrong.

Whether previews, interviews, and press releases (and the analysis thereof) are considered to break the "no spoilers" ban depends on the forum guidelines. I don't post in Fanatics much, so I can't say what the rules are there.

While I understand your community-based POV and your desire to see an all-inclusive space, I truly think you are pushing that desire too far. This site has many forums, and the basis for dividing it into forums is to allow people to specialize and focus the discussions.

Show forums are not like OT, where the ideal is to have an all-inclusive community. Shows with multiple forums have multiples so that people can hang out with others who have the same approach to being fans. Some gush, some bash, some want to know what is going to be on the show before it airs. The organization of this board reflects the idea that fans are happiest if they have different playgrounds. Also, any one can choose a different playground at any time.

Messing up the dividing lines between the forums does not make for more fun, IMHO.

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by dabo on 11-01-10 at 02:21 AM
What are the rules in Fanatics? I don't know and it's not up to me to say anyway. What I do know is that spoiling is banned there so I don't do any sort of spoiling there, I can only police myself in that regard. I don't determine this is officially a spoiler and that isn't, that job has been reserved by the administration of this site solely for the purpose of keeping certain forums spoiler-free. How many times do I need to point that out?

So, I take a broad view about what are spoilers based on intent; speculation or analysis or whatever with spoiling intent, thar be spoilin' me bucko, ARRRRR!

As for inclusiveness: Why have the voting threads traditionally been on the Spoiler forum? It's to include people who are spoiling, not to exclude everyone else.

But, anyway, factionalism, what a drag. It is natural that factions develop, human nature, problems arise when it becomes divisive and confrontational. I'll try to figure out how to start a new thread for an inclusive conversation that can hopefully be more a civil and respectful debate, calm and cool, than an invitation to butt heads.

At the moment, though, there's a merge episode to spoil! This is one of the most strategically fascinating merges we've had in years!

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by dabo on 10-29-10 at 03:13 PM
Hi, all! So, this is where you've all been hiding. Great to see so many folks showing up.

Anyway, as I told OFG via email when she started this thread, since the topic isn't really source spoilers I can flip to expanded mode and jump in on any post here with relative safety of not encountering source spoilers. As I've also been trying to emphasize, in my opinion the reason for these forums is for us all to have fun. Everyone have fun!

As for the vote threads, there is no rule against spoilers being posted in the vote threads. What there is is simply a request for focus on the week in question, a civil observation that is usually followed anyway.

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 11-04-10 at 09:16 PM
An example of a clash from today:
______________

kiki_k 815 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"
11-04-10, 05:33 PM (EST)

2. "RE: Ep 8 Vidcaps"
LAST EDITED ON 11-04-10 AT 08:17 PM (EST)
I'm pretty sure missyae said Brenda wins one IC -- I'm pretty sure this is the one she wins.

eta: to take out boot list spoilers.


Slider 17 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson"
11-04-10, 07:05 PM (EST)

6. "RE: Ep 8 Vidcaps"
Hey,TMI. Not all of us in this thread want to know the next 2 boots.
______________

kiki obligingly edited, but why should that be necessary?

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by SpotTheDifference on 11-04-10 at 10:07 PM
kiki obligingly edited, but why should that be necessary?

Not sure if this was meant to be rhetorical, but I'd like to express my opinion anyway.

I've been reading spoilers, both sourced and unsourced, throughout this season. I also understand that this is a spoilers forum and that there's bound to be spoilers lying around. That said, I fully understand Slider's post, and depending on the boot list that kiki posted (I didn't see it), might even agree with Slider.

The topic in which the boot list was posted was a vidcap thread. While there aren't any rules prohibiting sourced spoilers from being posted there, I also think that people who do have sourced spoilers should know that not everyone who reads through a vidcap thread is source-spoiled or wants to be source-spoiled. Some people want to browse through a vidcap thread because they want to look at pictures, analyze pictures, and figure things out for themselves. When a boot list is inserted at some random spot in the thread, then yes, it can be TMI, even for a spoilers forum.

Am I suggesting that there be two separate vidcap threads? No. Too much effort. What I'm suggesting is that for threads such as these, a fair warning at the post title and a bootlist written in invisible ink might help. Sourced spoilers can still be viewed, but not necessarily by people who don't want to see them.

Peace.



"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by kiki_k on 11-04-10 at 10:19 PM
All I wrote was that since missyae said Brenda wins one IC & that she goes out at F10 that this (F11) has to be when she wins the IC. I don't think that is "posting a boot list" but whatever -- I'll be more careful. I don't think it should be neccessary in a SPOILERS FORUM but I'll do it, because I'm not a jerk.
"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by SpotTheDifference on 11-04-10 at 11:02 PM

I apologize, then. I never meant to pinpoint you or anyone in particular. Like I said, I never saw what you posted, and I never should have assumed that you posted a boot list. A boot list is what I would personally qualify as TMI.


"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by kiki_k on 11-04-10 at 11:13 PM
LAST EDITED ON 11-04-10 AT 11:15 PM (EST)

I apologize too if I came off harsh towards you. I don't want to make a big to do about this, because I don't want anyone to think I was actually upset about Slider's post. I wasn't & I did edit my comment in case anyone else felt like Slider does. But, in the context of that particular thread re: who wins immunity, I admit I didn't think about "spoiling" the next 2 boots as much as I was trying to make the case for Brenda having to win IC at F11. I really don't want to upset people on this board because I love this place and I sincerely meant it when I wrote that I will try to remember that not everyone knows who is going next, etc. & will be more careful.

And please remember, I'm not guaranting perfection, only effort.

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by SquidProQuo on 11-04-10 at 11:29 PM
No worries, Kiki! You didn't do anything wrong, and like you said, it is a spoilers forum after all. I think OFG is just using this specific example to show how some people don't want any mention of sourced spoilers and how we need to get clarity because the current situation isn't really working for anyone. We can't walk on eggshells and pretend like we don't know what we know. (If that makes sense )
"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by SquidProQuo on 11-04-10 at 10:31 PM
Spot, I definitely see your point about posting a boot list in the middle of a vidcap thread, but I don't think that's what happened in the example OFG mentioned. I believe it just mentioned the names of the next 2 possible boots. Many people think that all spoilers are fair game in a Spoilers Forum but others don't want Sourced spoilers, or maybe only week by week? As specific examples come up, I guess it shows that where we draw the line might differ.

OFG, as I recall, did someone suggest that we only talk about the coming week's boot in the vidcaps and clues threads? Or was consensus that anything goes?

Looks like there's still not clarity and perhaps we need to communicate more widely now? I'm not sure where we landed -- are we still figuring out what the "rules" are? Can posters decide on the rules, or do the Moderators have to make/approve any changes? (Not sure if what's being proposed is really even a change -- maybe it's just in keeping with the original rules.) Also, were you still planning to open the discussion to people in Fanatics as a next step?

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by dabo on 11-04-10 at 10:52 PM
I better figure out the new discussion thread pretty quick, I see. I did hear from one person before this wondering why source spoiling was necessary on Vidcap threads. Strictly speaking, just for visual analysis of what is shown in the promos, source spoilers aren't needed at all. But content analysis is something else and is somewhat conjoined. This is a source of frustration on both sides even though no one is doing anything wrong.

What I have to wonder is why is everything seemingly getting bundled up this season so that saying one thing sourced leads to saying the next thing and the next thing sourced? I have to ask because I have no idea what games or riddles or whatever are part of it this season, but whatever is going on does seem to be aggravating the situation.

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by SquidProQuo on 11-04-10 at 11:24 PM
Thanks, Dabo. I actually don't think there are too many instances of things getting "bundled" this season. But as an example, a sourced clue might be that Person X wins 1 more immunity before getting booted....or that 2 women get booted in a row (I'm just making this up -- not real spoilers)...so sometimes the clues overlap or span more than 1 episode.

Keep in mind that a boot list wasn't published this season (until Halloween). So it was just a bunch of hints and clues about people and their longevity and/or relationships.

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by dabo on 11-04-10 at 11:49 PM
I see, thank you. I know there was some sort of sandwich puzzle earlier this season, all I could do was look at the words and wonder what sort of games are going on in source spoiling this season. But I do understand the hunt and those moments of revelation like (hypothetically):

"Oh, this is the episode where Nay swipes the flour, it gets damp in the hiding spot, the next episode is the one where everyone gets high from the LSD fungus, Kelly starts speaking in tongues, then Dan's magic shoes wash up on shore and he starts his four challenge winning streak!"

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by SquidProQuo on 11-05-10 at 00:02 AM
Yeah, I forgot about the sandwich clue! It totally confused me so I didn't event try, but KB persevered on that one and nailed it.

You're right -- the clues are like a "hunt" and it's fun to put the pieces of the puzzle together.

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by LFJ on 11-05-10 at 10:02 AM
LAST EDITED ON 11-05-10 AT 10:04 AM (EST)

I am just throwing my 2 cents worth of observation in here - maybe not the perfect spot, but, here goes.

*ahem* BM (Before Missy, just as a point of reference), everyone on this forum would contribute here and there to most of the discussions. With the exception of Veruca (possibly one or two others), I would see WAAAAAAAAAY more posts from people who enjoyed the community effort of figuring out the boot. It was more like a Mystery Murder dinner party, if you will. For instance, the SOTS, while always well written and entertaining (my personal favorite read of the week) were frequently wrong, but, who cared? Coming to the wrong conclusion was just as much fun as getting it right (maybe not for the author). The same thing was true of "Vote". The Vidcaps and the Editing thread had NO spoiler info in them. It was pure conjecture.

My, my, my...how things have changed.

Personally, I don't care one way or the other if I find spoiler info in a topic, as I am not that invested in this forum. That being said, I cannot help but notice (I am a professional observer) the decline of posts and posters in many of the threads since I first started "lurking" here. This could be, in part, because people don't feel their contributions are necessary, or worthwhile, while others, like me, have simply decided to read a couple of lines, find out the boot, and then quietly go away.

Again, I don't have time to read everything, or even watch the episodes - sometimes days after they have aired. However, I know this has been a topic of discussion before, and I can't help but think that lots of fun and talented people are "confining" themselves to one or two threads.

I am not saying the is a "fault". It is more like a natural consequence of having introduced sourced spoilers into the Forum. Maybe they have been here for a long time, but they certainly have not been the foundation of most of the discussion in these threads. The Forum has mutated from a Forum of speculation and analysis into a Forum for the purposes of dissecting what Missy (and other sources) has written, when it was written, how a question was posed, how it was answered, copies of the exact date and time, etc. Sort of like a virus spreading through the Community.

Once you know something...you can't unring the bell. You will sometime, somehow, no matter how you try to suppress it, let that knowledge slip into a "conversation". This is especially easy for someone who is posting on many threads - jumping from one topic to another, and forgetting where they are, and losing awareness of who their audience may be.

I think this "Warning" - Source Spoilers Here" alert is likely as good a way to manage it as any - perhaps the invisible ink? Unless, people can confine their posts to the appropriate thread, this kind of dust-up will continue to occur (not to say anyone did anything wrong).

E. for my habitual sp problems

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 11-06-10 at 07:22 PM
LFJ, I appreciate your thoughtful analysis of what you see. I do find the observations based on history frustrating, because I think that you came in at a point in time that gave you an atypical impression of the place in terms of what it has been over the years.

I have been contributing to this forum for 9 1/2 years, and I've read the first season. It has not been the convention or guideline to mark any topic that has a source spoiler or to segregate topics for most of that time.

The Gabon season was the first season in a long time without any information. Tocantins did not have a lot of spoilage, but there was some, for instance that Coach finished 5th and Debbie made it far. These seasons got people accustomed to relying on vidcap and teaser analysis and editing -- and a lot of people liked that and were unhappy when spoilers came back.

When information began to emerge in Samoa, it was labeled as a courtesy but not a requirement. What's happened is that people are now making demands on how spoilers can be worked into the conversation -- demands that change what this forum has always been.

The mods set the guidelines. This is not a democracy. The purpose of this discussion was to air the issues and give the mods an idea of whether they want to make some sort of change to the guidelines, or an interpretation of the current ones.

My feeling about the people who have withdrawn is that these people came to this forum as spoilers. I've known them all for years. Now they have decided to go unspoiled, but instead of taking a break from the Spoiler forum, some are deciding that the Spoiler forum needs to accommodate their decision to go unspoiled by tiptoeing around them.

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by LFJ on 11-06-10 at 07:57 PM
Now that you have explained the history...I see your point. I think Gabon was the 2nd season I watched - so my memory of the boards would tie in with what you have said.

However it shakes out, I hope all of the "usual suspects" hang around, and continue to use their special skill sets to make contributions to the general well-being of the "Tribe"

"RE: Spoiler Forum Protocol? Warning! Here Be Source Spoilers!"
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 11-13-10 at 05:29 PM
I want to apologize to those of you who spoke up for keeping the Spoilers forum as it ever was. I should have gotten it together to post the new topic with all of your contributions in it as a starting point of where we were at, instead of handing off the new topic because I wasn't feeling well.

The new topic ignored all of your input, and the result is that the forum has gone the other direction now, to source-free vidcaps. I'm sorry that by my trying to talk about it, I opened the door to things getting even less functional for Spoilers.

dabos's topic "The Thread to Restore Sanity"

While I did get a topic up with your responses in it, by then the conversation was firmly in the territory of accommodating the anti-source folks, and not one person in that group gave any indication they had listened to or considered your comments.

OFG's topic "Spoiler-Free Topic on Spoiler Forum Protocol"

It is really unfortunate that we ended up having separate conversations, each of which was dominated by one school of thought, and never had a dialogue for everyone. I did want that, but clearly I didn't do it right by letting this topic run its course before the general topic went up.

This was not a battle I could keep fighting as the more or less lone voice, so I think it's best that I step away for now. I may continue to contribute to a few topics that are labeled with warnings. I know, that is ironic, it's the opposite of what I felt was workable. Oh well.


End of the Innocence