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Original Message
"Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Estee on 12-11-08 at 04:08 PM
{Please keep all sigpic-free discussion of tonight's wake-up call on this thread until either eleven tonight or Mattie realizes he's fifth in a five-person alliance, one of his 'own people' just turned against him, and he's either got to do something fast or he's very much doomed. (For all intents and purposes, read that as 'eleven tonight.)}

{Also note that we may not get tonight's episode to start on time, because we're still trying to track down Kenny and get him to approve the invention of television.}

{I think we can safely call this Cheat Code Syndrome now. If Kenny doesn't feel he has some part in running every aspect of his world, then that world falls apart. He's the wrong kind of gamer: we're looking at the puppetmaster for the pen-and-dice of your choice -- and he'd be insulted if you suggested he should just become a player. He has to plant the seeds: in the end, all trails must lead back to him -- just in time to take credit for all of it in front of the jury. But at the same time, he doesn't understand how people react: only the characters he's assigned to them. He doesn't see them as people. Mattie was just an accessory in his backpack which had outlived its usefulness: time to dispose of it, and who cares what you think of your tool (and vice-versa) when the time comes to put it away? Kenny is very disconnected. It's starting to become disturbing.)

(At this point, I think Bob's the only one who can see how people truly react. Crystal's too fogged by her own anger, Mattie's trapped behind rose-colored contacts, and Susie can't get any farther than 'If I make the F3, they'll have to respect that.' It makes Bob even more of a jury threat than he already was -- and you know what that means: Immunity or die.}

{Does anyone really think Sugar's going to pass the idol and make it work? If she does, who's she trying to protect? She may have an ideal jury partner in mind -- but that would have to be Crystal or Kenny, right? She couldn't be thinking of protecting Mattie. No one's that stupid -- at least, no one except Erik. Right? ...right?}

{Three arguments against her making it work: slightly too tall, definitely too small, and way too blonde.}

{I've never seen the vote-off thread this divided. We have too many threats left. Mattie as a challenge threat waiting in the wings, Crystal with the potential to come out of nowhere and please don't laugh, and Bob questing for jury votes with every breathe he continues to take. And then there's the idea that Kenny should be dumped as too obvious a self-proclaimed mastermind, especially if Mattie does somehow catch on to what happened and has the testicular fortitude to do something about it... The only person who's safe is Susie, and she's safe because she's useless. How sick is that?}

{Mattie's a little too busy picking out curtains to bother with gameplay right now.}

{As long as he's in the fabric store, he can look into a matching funeral shroud.}

{Tell him to check another shop: I used the last one here to officially bury the Good Vs. Evil storyline. Stoopid Jeff and his stoopid plot hooks...}

{What if Corinne's right and the Sith wind up controlling the jury? They vote as a block, and there's any number of people who get screwed. For that number, I count three.}

{I can't quite grasp the idea of Corinne being right about something.}

{At least we've only got three more days of this. And despite the fact that the next cast will be worse, the twists will be stupider, Exile Island will be mandatory, and Jeff will continue to blog without mercy, I will still look forward to the next season more than I'm looking forward to the end of this one.}

{Why?}

{Hope?}

{Stupidity?}

{Yeah. One of those.}

Table of contents
Messages in this discussion
"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by dabo on 12-11-08 at 04:12 PM
So?

Oh, that reminds me, I got to run out tot he dentest.

"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Estee on 12-11-08 at 04:20 PM
Watching this show makes you want to have holes drilled into your head as a less painful option?
"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by suzzee on 12-11-08 at 04:23 PM
So far your post is looking more interesting the the show itself. I.can't.stop.watching. arrrrrg.
"Live post-episode discussion --"
Posted by Estee on 12-11-08 at 06:52 PM
-- will begin immediately following the closing credits at http://www.myinfochat.com/ in the Recreation & Sports room. Please have Java enabled before entering, and remember that you won't be able to change your chosen name once inside.
"Early swing from the Pickaxe"
Posted by vince3 on 12-11-08 at 08:04 PM
Crystal: It was really stupid to not vote for Matty at the last TC. Hopefully it doesn't bite me in the butt......
"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by HistoryDetective on 12-11-08 at 08:10 PM
Kenny is a tool.
"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Estee on 12-11-08 at 08:14 PM
'I betrayed you! I demand you feel guilty about that!' And Bob pledges to give him the next necklace if he wins it, not to mention admitting the idol was a fake. Add that to another Kenny 'I control everything' confessional, and we're officially at ye gawds.
"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Prof_ Wagstaff on 12-11-08 at 08:15 PM
But just a little tool.
"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by vince3 on 12-11-08 at 08:14 PM
Bob, Kenny, and Matty are the only ones to make a shot at all.

Crystal even tried to dunk it after the competition was over and it rimmed out.

Bob, as speculated takes Crystal and Kenny on Reward, which is a trip to a Gorilla sanctuary.

Susie heads to Exile

Matty's hatred for the Kenny/Crystal couple is confessionaled, and he hopes to swing Susie, once she returns from Exile, to get rid of one of them......

"Bob: challenge mega-whore!"
Posted by Estee on 12-11-08 at 08:15 PM
Seriously, who knew?

And Susie goes to ExI!

"RE: Bob: challenge mega-whore!"
Posted by vince3 on 12-11-08 at 08:17 PM
Gawd forbid Sugar doesn't go to her Sugar Shack.......
"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Estee on 12-11-08 at 08:25 PM
The gorillas are beautiful.

Majestic.

Capable of outsmarting Kenny.

"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by HistoryDetective on 12-11-08 at 08:30 PM
I was disappointed that the silverback didn't run up to Kenny and rip his spindly little arms from his scrawny little body.
"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Prof_ Wagstaff on 12-11-08 at 08:26 PM
They would be crazy to vote out Crystal for any reason.
She has got no game at all!
"Insta-poll."
Posted by Estee on 12-11-08 at 08:37 PM
Post under this message if you too no longer have any idea what's going through Sugar's head.
"RE: Insta-poll."
Posted by vince3 on 12-11-08 at 08:40 PM
"Any way the wind blows" *gong*
"RE: Insta-poll."
Posted by kingfish on 12-11-08 at 08:40 PM
Yo!
"RE: Insta-poll."
Posted by Prof_ Wagstaff on 12-11-08 at 08:55 PM
ROTFLMAO!

She just turned the game around.

"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Estee on 12-11-08 at 08:37 PM
And once again, the mental aspect of this game has kicked Crystal's ass.
"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by vince3 on 12-11-08 at 08:39 PM
I was waiting for Jeff to say "Your OTHER left!"
"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Prof_ Wagstaff on 12-11-08 at 08:40 PM
Add that to the physical aspect of the game and somehow she's sunk into negative numbers.
"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Prof_ Wagstaff on 12-11-08 at 08:39 PM
"Four challanges in a row. I'm 57 years old..."

Bob you rule!
Who could have predicted it?

"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by vince3 on 12-11-08 at 08:41 PM
Kenny and Crystal are looking to "Erik" Bob tonight.......
"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by vince3 on 12-11-08 at 08:42 PM
and they've now revealed the plan to Susie, Matty and Sugar.......
"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by mysticwolf on 12-11-08 at 08:42 PM
Kenny is slime.
"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by suzzee on 12-11-08 at 08:55 PM
Second that.
"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by michel on 12-11-08 at 09:07 PM
3rd
"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by HistoryDetective on 12-11-08 at 08:54 PM
Bye bye, Inexplicable Olympian!
"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by doomy on 12-11-08 at 08:59 PM
yeah, how does an olympic medalist manage to f*ck up so hard on every single challenge, physical or mental??
"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by michel on 12-11-08 at 09:08 PM
Steroid withdrawals?
"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by dabo on 12-12-08 at 09:12 AM
Welcome aboard!

Her big mistake was picking Kenny as her coach.

"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by vince3 on 12-11-08 at 08:55 PM
Sugar wore her HII into TC, and Jiffy reminded her (and anyone else who had a HII) that this was the Last Chance for using it.

Bob..... keeps the Immunity Necklace

Sugar...... passes the REAL Hidden Immunity Idol to Matty and all votes toward him are neutralized

Matty
Matty
Crystal
Crystal

13th person voted out and 5th member of our Jury, Crystal.

(Corinne celebrates! She also loved seeing Sugar pass the HII off to Matty)

"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Estee on 12-11-08 at 08:56 PM
But was it necessary? Did Crystal have majority?
"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by vince3 on 12-11-08 at 09:02 PM
Crystal did. The vote would've been 4-2. It was more for show than go.......
"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by HistoryDetective on 12-11-08 at 09:11 PM
But how many of those votes were on-the-fly votes when it became apparent that Bob was off limits? Did Snoozie really plan to vote for Crystal before Tribal Council? Or did she scramble there when Bob kept the necklace?
"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Estee on 12-11-08 at 09:12 PM
Which, if Sugar knew for certain she had majority for Crystal, puts this in the same category as Randy. Insult to injury.

And thus Corinne's celebration. One more for the Sugar-hating crowd.

"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by HistoryDetective on 12-11-08 at 09:15 PM
I don't think that Sugar could know anything for certain as long as Snoozie was involved in the equation. That little oompa loompa woman is batshit crazy.
"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Prof_ Wagstaff on 12-11-08 at 09:27 PM
That little oompa loompa woman is batshit crazy.

I agree. Sugar couldn't trust her. Passing the II to Matty guaranteed that Crystal would go home.

"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Brownroach on 12-12-08 at 05:36 PM
I assumed Sugar figured: the idol is no good after this TC anyway, so what the heck? -- I'll give it to Matty to use, just in case...
"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by michel on 12-13-08 at 01:17 AM
And don't forget Sugar is an actress. A sense of drama never hurts.
"Corinne better celebrate now..."
Posted by WhiteHot on 12-11-08 at 09:00 PM
I have a feeling her last hopes, Kenny and Bob are next, and her two nemesises (sp?) Susie and Sugar are Final 2.

I think the producers have been showing scenes of Corinne (celebrating or predicting victory) to burn her at every turn this season.

"Did something happen?"
Posted by Estee on 12-11-08 at 08:55 PM
I thought there might have been an idol pass, but I just couldn't stop staring at Randy's nohawk.

That was not a typo.

"RE: Did something happen?"
Posted by vince3 on 12-11-08 at 08:56 PM
Sugar to Matty, as she hands off the HII: Please take this cursed thing away.......
"RE: Did something happen?"
Posted by Estee on 12-11-08 at 09:00 PM
I can't argue for the idol having its very own perma-curse: Yul stands counterpoint. But it's definitely been at least a minor lodestone for her, pulling in far too much attention.
"RE: Did something happen?"
Posted by Fishercat on 12-11-08 at 08:57 PM
Sugar passed the HII to Matty after the vote had taken place, which I have to question the legality of. I was sure that, at least in old seasons with the HII, it had to be in the possession of the potential user prior to getting to TC.

All four of them are morons for not voting out Kenny, who has proven capable in challenges, over Crystal. Only one of those two had a real shot at winning and they kept him.

"RE: Did something happen?"
Posted by HistoryDetective on 12-11-08 at 09:04 PM
But Bob can now say, "See, I knew that you were not in danger of going home, Slimeball Kenny. The idol would not have done you any good."
"RE: Did something happen?"
Posted by Fishercat on 12-11-08 at 09:15 PM
So basically, he votes out the lesser threat to he can look good to the guy he already lied to about giving the necklace. Glad to see his logic (after the Randy fake idol incident) is still intact. I don't recall him putting that caveat of danger in his original negotiations.
"RE: Did something happen?"
Posted by HistoryDetective on 12-11-08 at 09:18 PM
It's certainly not perfect logic, but it does have enough wiggle room for him to tell Slimeball to stop whining.
"RE: Did something happen?"
Posted by Estee on 12-11-08 at 09:04 PM
It would have been unfair for the landmine. 'This is who's just been voted out. Anyone want to stop it?' With the hand grenade, you still have to guess who's gotten the votes. Still -- weird to see.

And at this point, they may be thinking of Kenny as jury goat.

"RE: Did something happen?"
Posted by Fishercat on 12-11-08 at 09:11 PM
It is still kind of unfair though, in this case. Basically, Sugar got to know whether Bob was going to give away his idol (and logically align with Kenny and pull Susie in that case, thus putting Sugar and Matty in a minority), or he wasn't (thus putting Kenny/Crystal in the minority and allowing her to make a safe giveaway.

Granted, it didn't matter because it was still 4-2, which makes it even more of a useless gesture, but still.

Kenny's less of a goat when Crystal when it comes down to it. At the very least, Corrine would vote him over the others not named Bob (it seems), Randy had some modicum of respect for him as well. No one seemed to like Crystal there (oh, he has Crystal's vote too).

"RE: Did something happen?"
Posted by Chez on 12-11-08 at 10:15 PM
It seems like a hidden immunity idol has an added power over a regular one. The hidden one can be assigned after the vote while the regular one has to be assigned (or kept) before the vote.
"RE: Did something happen?"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 12-11-08 at 09:06 PM

And about Kenny still being in the game, I believe this might have been a concession of sorts by Bob in that he convinced some of the others to boot Crystal first before Kenny so he could look good to the jury for upholding his promise -- I'm willing to bet that there were a bunch of wheedling and dealing by Bob that was left on the cutting room floor to hide this fact.

"RE: Did something happen?"
Posted by Fishercat on 12-11-08 at 09:16 PM
Thanks for the clarification on that (granted, I assume they've changed that last rule since Sugar seemed to be convinced this was her last week to use it).

The jury thing rings false to me unless Bob is a complete moron. Does he realize he has four strong allies on the jury already with his opponents split two ways? Are the Onions really going to vote for anyone else in that case?

"RE: Did something happen?"
Posted by vince3 on 12-11-08 at 09:28 PM
Jiffy told her that this was the last chace.......
"RE: Did something happen?"
Posted by Flowerpower on 12-12-08 at 06:45 AM
Hiya Pepe!

And about Kenny still being in the game, I believe this might have been a concession of sorts by Bob in that he convinced some of the others to boot Crystal first before Kenny so he could look good to the jury for upholding his promise -- I'm willing to bet that there were a bunch of wheedling and dealing by Bob that was left on the cutting room floor to hide this fact.

Actually, it was Sugar that named Crystal as the boot. She told Matty on the dock that it had to be Crystal before Kenny...Bob had nothing to do with it. She really does play with her heart and not her head...

"RE: Did something happen?"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 12-12-08 at 12:32 PM
But did Bob say anything about targeting Crystal instead of Kenny first beforehand? We don't know. I seem to recall that Sugar wasn't crazy about Kenny as he lied to her about Ace, but I don't remember Sugar having bad feelings towards Crystal. Why wouldn't she target Kenny first, considering he's a bigger threat?

I believe there were something behind the scenes that wasn't shown on TV where they may have discussed whether to go after Kenny or Crystal, and I can see Bob wanting to go after Crystal to uphold his promise -- then we were shown Sugar saying "We're voting Crystal" to Matty. How do we know they didn't plot this before we saw Sugar saying this to Matty?

"RE: Did something happen?"
Posted by citywitch on 12-12-08 at 04:38 PM
couldn't Sugar have just decided on Crystal because she couldn't completely be sure that Bob wouldn't give Kenny the immunity necklace?
"RE: Did something happen?"
Posted by Brownroach on 12-12-08 at 05:31 PM
I don't believe Bob was in on anything until Sugar clued him in later. Bob was still thinking that Matty was the target. Sugar's plan just turned out to be convenient for Bob.

According to the Insider clips, Sugar had wanted Kenny to win up until recently, so even if that has changed she may still have felt he deserved to stick around more than Crystal.

"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by suzzee on 12-11-08 at 08:58 PM
I feel like I've been watching S17 alternate universe. Matty loathing Ken & Crystal? They're the evil ones? Matty luffs Susie?

Well, Kenny would have one vote in the jury.


"Chat under way."
Posted by Estee on 12-11-08 at 09:07 PM
Come see The Amazing Emoticons That Don't Do Anything!
"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by kingfish on 12-11-08 at 10:37 PM
Once again I reflect on Crystal's being a Olymp. gold medal winner in 440 relay, an event in which staying in one's lane is a basic requirement.

Someone just has to be putting us on.

The sight of Susie off course, staggering around with no clue, no point of reference, was just a hoot. Gosh, if she wins this because of the interpersonal warfare between the others, I don't know......

OK. As it turns out, Crystal got the majority of the votes, and would have even if Sugar hadn't given the HI to Natty Matty. There's some irony there. I think.

"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 12-12-08 at 12:37 PM

>The sight of Susie off course,
>staggering around with no clue,
>no point of reference, was
>just a hoot. Gosh, if
>she wins this because of
>the interpersonal warfare between the
>others, I don't know......

Meet Sandra. Susie is Sandra Part II. They've even got the same nationality, same game strategy of "I'll vote for anyone as long as it isn't me" and the same task of taking advantage of staying out of the muck of interpersonal warfare of others (i.e. Jonny Fairplay vs. everyone else in camp).

"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Georjanna on 12-12-08 at 01:20 PM
Pepe,

I've never watched Africa, so I wonder if you (or anyone else) would be kind enough to tell me how Ethan's gameplay (and/or edit) compares to what we've seen of Susie's.

Thanks,

G

"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 12-12-08 at 01:31 PM
Nothing at all like Ethan - they're very different.

Ethan made friends with Lex and Tom very early in the game, and the three of them rode their alliance to the end before they were forced to start booting each other. Ethan used his athleticism to help him in challenges and his easy-going nature to get along well with others without putting a target on himself (he let Lex be the 'bad guy' in telling people they were going to be booted next, for example).

By contrast, Sandra was one of the worst challenge performers in Survivor history, didn't make very many friends with her sarcastic nature and sharp tongue, plotted to cut people's legs out from under them, hid food from the tribe (remember when she planned to hide the bucket of fish?), and voted whichever way the wind was blowing towards someone else. She didn't have much of an alliance, if she was even in one in the first place.

"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Georjanna on 12-12-08 at 02:02 PM
Thank you!

I am really challenged pre-Palau. That's the first Season that I watched in its entirety.

G

PS: Happy (belated but heartfelt) Birthday!

"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by Chez on 12-12-08 at 03:14 PM
LAST EDITED ON 12-12-08 AT 03:14 PM (EST)

Pepe-
I agree with almost everything you said about Sandra. But she did have an alliance with Rupert and Christa, which she was true to,and got angry when they were voted off.

"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 12-12-08 at 03:20 PM
That's true, but they were out reasonably early -- I was thinking more of an endgame alliance and she also clearly stated from early in the game that she would vote for anyone, anywhere, anytime as long as it wasn't her.
"RE: Survivor #17 Episode #12 East Coast Spoiler Thread"
Posted by squibb on 12-12-08 at 03:28 AM
There are some incredible sense(s) of humor at work here. Great stuff. I don't get to interact in real time with youz guys because the show doesn't even start here till midnight EST. But I just wanted to thank you guys for giving me a place to say "KENNY IS A INKY STINKY SLIMEY P-POOR EXCUSE FOR A HUMAN BEING". I thank you.