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"Discussion Thread Ep. 6.10: "The Package""

Posted by mrc on 03-30-10 at 08:44 AM
This thread is for discussion of the episode once it airs on the Left Coast or for spoiler-free discussion prior to the episode. Please keep all spoilers in the designated thread.

(Note: The episode description and guest casting are in the spoiler thread.)


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Messages in this discussion
"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.10: "The Package""
Posted by zombiebaby on 03-30-10 at 09:10 AM
Hey an episode about Phil's "golf equipment"!

"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.10: "The Package""
Posted by Breezy on 03-30-10 at 11:12 AM
*snort*

"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.10: "The Package""
Posted by Tummy on 03-30-10 at 02:19 PM
And here I was thinking it would be Sawyer-centric.

"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.10: "The Package""
Posted by mrc on 03-30-10 at 03:19 PM
'bout time. The driver hasn't gotten enough screen time this season.

What is Phil's golf equipment?


"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.10: "The Package""
Posted by zombiebaby on 03-30-10 at 10:36 PM
Loved it. Best episode of the season.

I loved how it was back to the people stuck on the island. Everyone was shown. I felt like things moved.

Emotional. Jin with the camera *sniff* These two get me again.

Sideways flash was good too but I happen to like all of them so far. Do you think pregnant Sun will be going to see a certain doctor that specializes in babies?

Was Flocke turning into the smoke monster on camera when shasing Sun? I swear I thought I saw that but DH said he didn't.

Well we know that Sun has a package all her own. Those girls looked good!

I was almost certain it would be Sun who puts Mikhail's eye out.


"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.10: "The Package""
Posted by michel on 03-30-10 at 11:18 PM
"I was almost certain it would be Sun who puts Mikhail's eye out."

He shouldn't have looked straight at the Sun!!


"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.10: "The Package""
Posted by blacknwhitedog on 03-30-10 at 11:23 PM
Whew good episode! Loved the flash sideways!

Totaly see where this is going- the candidate is not Jin or Sun- but their daughter.

Desmond is back- when he was pushing the button was he somehow keeping Smokey contained on the island? Now that Widmore brought him back to the island- is he going to tell Desmond he needs to stay on the island to contain Smokey and keep Penelope safe?


Handcrafted by RollDdice 2005


"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.10: "The Package""
Posted by blacknwhitedog on 03-31-10 at 09:46 AM
LAST EDITED ON 03-31-10 AT 09:50 AM (EST)

I didn't say the daughter will be "the" island protector- just one of the 6 candidates. (they keep wondering which Kwon- Sun or Jin- but it's the baby) I also don't think it will be one that is chosen (Jack-) but all six- they are all going to have to stay.


"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.10: "The Package""
Posted by PackMan on 03-31-10 at 10:08 AM
I think the purpose of showing Jin the photos was just a way to bring him back into (or ensure he stays in) the "Jacob Fold". Jin has been separated from Sun for a long time, and I think this was a way for Team Jacob to help boost his faith and keep him going. I don't think the daughter becomes a candidate at this point... I think those have already been introduced, and now we're being taken down the path to complete the end game.



If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when are you going to find time to do it again? - Anonymous


"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.10: "The Package""
Posted by Breezy on 03-31-10 at 07:37 AM
Yay a good episode again!!!

Sun and Jin are just a great story no matter which timeline/view we get of them.

Desmond looked horrid. Poor guy.

I agree with Zombs, this episode felt like it moved us along again. I liked that.

I don't agree with Bawdy about Sun/Jin's daughter being the island's protector. I still say it's Jack. When Jack asked Sun why she didn't go with Locke, it was about trust. And she trusts Jack.


"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.10: "The Package""
Posted by trigirl on 03-31-10 at 08:13 AM
Do you think pregnant Sun will be going to see a certain doctor that specializes in babies?

Exactly what I thought. So it wasn't the Island's mysterious power that help Jin get his mojo back?

I don't agree with Bawdy about Sun/Jin's daughter being the island's protector. I still say it's Jack. When Jack
asked Sun why she didn't go with Locke, it was about trust. And she trusts Jack.

Have always been on team Jack!

If baby Kwon is not the candidate, she is still important. I thought there was a possibility that she was the package.


"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.10: "The Package""
Posted by CTgirl on 03-31-10 at 08:36 AM
I also thought baby Kwon could have been the package (especially after Widmore gave Jin the camera), but then I thought (hoped) there is no way Widmore would keep the girl locked up in the same way he would Desmond.

I thought this was a good episode - and like you Others (posters!) thought it moved the story along nicely. I liked the way Widmore reintroduced the electromagnetic forces of the island theme again. That is bringing us back to the beginning of our story - how the plane crashed - in a way that is more consistent with the first 4-1/2 seasons than just good Jacob vs. evil MIB controlling the island.

I wonder if Desmond has more knowledge of the electromagnetic forces than we were led to believe or if he just being used as a tool by Widmore. I listened to Lindelof's and Cuse's podcast this week and when asked when Desmond was coming back they pointed out that his name has been in the opening credits every week, so yeah he's going to be important.

Ben's episode was still my favorite, but this one is up there!


"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.10: "The Package""
Posted by zombiebaby on 03-31-10 at 08:53 AM
LAST EDITED ON 03-31-10 AT 09:15 AM (EST)

Yeh I don't think Ji Yeon is coming to the island. Though I do think she will "survive" the shooting in the flash sideways. Jack's tomato was a not so subtle clue to that.

One thing is really different though(among other obvious things), this flash sideways baby is concieved before the flight! In the original Jin is sterile off island and they did not concieve until post crash.

Jack and Sun's relationship has changed again since coming back to the island. She appears to no longer have anger towards him!

DH says the best Lost episodes are "when the pieces are moving across the board". He's another gamer!

Edited to add one more thing: Notice the hotel room? All black and white with lots of red accent colors thrown in. Don't know what it means but there are those colors again!


"Room 23!!11!"
Posted by mrc on 03-31-10 at 09:26 AM
Best part of the episode!


Bunnies eat nerds.


"RE: Room 23!!11!"
Posted by weltek on 03-31-10 at 02:01 PM
I was laughing that Tummy would be very excited to see this.


-A Tribetastic Creation


"RE: Room 23!!11!"
Posted by michel on 03-31-10 at 08:40 PM
But what did we learn from it? Nothing. It only served as a parallel to the restaurant fridge where Jin was also held captive.

"RE: Room 23!!11!"
Posted by mrc on 04-01-10 at 08:27 AM
Ease up, cowboy. Not everything on this forum is about deconstructing the show. Some of it is humour.

You've been hotpocketed!


"RE: Room 23!!11!"
Posted by Breezy on 04-01-10 at 08:32 AM
You are sooooo hawt.

"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.10: "The Package""
Posted by Max Headroom on 03-31-10 at 09:41 AM
Apparently I'm in the minority, but I didn't think much of this episode. About halfway through DW looked at me and said, "It's very slow," and I agreed with her. While it tied together some bits and pieces from other episodes, I didn't see much plot progression. Yes, I get it, things are building up to a big conflict at the end, but does that mean we have to wait through six more transitional episodes before it happens?

Overall much of this season has felt like a soap opera, where very little happens until the last 30 seconds, and then there's a big cliffhanger. While I'm sure the mystery of Locke's discussion with Widmore and subsequent reappearance on the main island will be explained later, I'm losing interest in always having to wait for answers. And Sun's bumped head and forgotten ability to speak English? Right out of the soap opera handbook.

I expected more out of this season, and especially out of this episode.


"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.10: "The Package""
Posted by blacknwhitedog on 03-31-10 at 09:52 AM
The return of Patch! and then Jin bumped his head and could understand English- loved it (yes it was very soap opera- still loved it) The tomato was just great! Go Jack!

"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.10: "The Package""
Posted by Breezy on 03-31-10 at 10:17 AM
Jin bumped his head and could understand English? Did I miss this?

"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.10: "The Package""
Posted by GOOU on 03-31-10 at 10:04 AM
You're not alone - This wasn't my favorite episode either. I have watched every episode from the beginning, and frankly I am ready to know how it ends and be done - have enjoyed it but am tired of all the cliffhangers at the end of each show.

"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.10: "The Package""
Posted by PackMan on 03-31-10 at 10:31 AM
Overall, I would have to say that I wasn't very impressed with this episode. There were some samll wins, but mostly the story just seemed to drag along.

The things I liked:

1) The tomato from Jack to Sun was a great way to get a message across to her in a time of despair. It was also a good pairing with the camera from Widmore to Jin.
2) The meeting on the beach between FLocke and Widmore. I kept wondering when/where/if Sayid would show up during their exchange.

The things I didn't care for:

1) The flash sideways (while important to show the bond between Jin and Sun) was a bit of a letdown.
2) The whole "Sun bumps her head and can't speak English" bit seemed a bit unecessary. Maybe it will play out in a later episode, but I just didn't care for it here.
3) Desmond being "The Package" wasn't all that big of a cliffhanger. We've seen pretty much everyone else back on the island, so it was just a matter of time before he showed up.


Maybe when I go back and watch it again I'll feel differently. But with only a few more episodes left, I would like to see the writers pick up the pace a bit.



If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when are you going to find time to do it again? - Anonymous


"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.10: "The Package""
Posted by blacknwhitedog on 03-31-10 at 09:49 AM
I have to say I am so annoyed at the "V" countdown clock in the corner- we couldn't read what Sun was writing.

"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.10: "The Package""
Posted by Flowerpower on 03-31-10 at 10:41 AM
Sun wrote: "Yes", meaning that she was able to write English, yet not speak it.

When Jack asked her, "Locke, what did he say to you?", she replied, He has Jin.

Then Jack asked her why she did'nt go with him, and she replied, I don't trust him.

Then Jack asked, "Do you trust me", and she nodded her head up and down, yes. Then he responded, "Sun, come with us and I'll help you find Jin, and get you both on that plane and as far away as you can get....I promise."

I'll come back with my thoughts later, but I will say this now. Jack is the chosen one. He's the "stubborn" one, like the tomato in the garden that didn't know he was supposed to die..... The tomato is symbolic of the chosen candidate. And so far, it looks like Jack is getting them all to go along with him, they trust him. I think Jack is their protector.




"My Take...."
Posted by Flowerpower on 03-31-10 at 05:04 PM
LAST EDITED ON 03-31-10 AT 05:05 PM (EST)

Yes, it's DESMOND! YEAH!!!! I knew that he would return and I was convinced that it was he who was in the closet all along! And, I am so excited because next week it's ALL about Desmond with a Desmond centric episode. And, I think this season is indeed coming to fruition. With each episode I get a bit more validation.

I just can't wait to start...the show has an eerie start with the vantage point of XLocke's camp through the night vision goggles, and they zoom in on Sawyer and Kate and then Sayid, and then on XLocke as he approaches Sayid to tell him that he's going on an errand. Sayid notes that he no longer feels anger, happiness, pain. XLocke replies that perhaps it is for the best as it will help you through what is coming....again foreshadowing of the war that Widmore referred to when he saved John Locke from the desert.

Then XLocke goes and talks to Jin, telling him about the names on the wall. "The only way we can leave the Island is if all the names that are not crossed off go together." And, he tells him that he'll find Sun.

Cut to Jin and Sun at customs and their cash has been confiscated. Jin is upset and Sun asks him what the money was for. He replies, "I don't Know". "I don't ask any questions, I do what your father tells me to do."

They arrive at the hotel and we find out that they are not married, they get separate rooms that indeed have "the numbers" associated with them. All on the 8th floor...

Sawyer goes up to Jin and says, "Where are you going, Hoss?" And Jin replies that he's going to find his wife. That he is "not sitting around here listening to whatever that thing tells you...

**This is EXACTLY what Jin does in Flash: Sideways. He doesn't ask any questions and he does what he is told!, exactly the opposite of what Jin is doing on the Island.

Sawyer argues back when the drug darts first hit Jin, then Sawyer then the rest of them. Then we see Widmore's man and Zoe come up to Jin and ask if this is the guy, where she replies, yes, let's take him.

Cut to the beach where Ben is asking Ilana what they will do next. She replies that we wait. Jacob has never lied to her and Richard will come back and tell them what they need to do. She is the girl of FAITH. She trusts Jacob. She has faith that if Jacob said Richard will tell them what to do, then indeed Richard will tell them what to do.

Sun is pissed and leaves to go to her old garden when Jack arrives . Clearly Jack still believes that they were brought to the Island for a purpose, and Sun doesn't want to hear that destiny crap...she doesn't want to save the world, she wants her husband and her family back and off of that island. She stomps off. Jack seems to have come back to the "purpose"....he had faltered after Juliet's demise. But, it seems that Jack's experience at the Lighthouse changed his mind....all that pondering out to the ocean indeed led him to "see the light", as Jacob thought it would.

Cut to Flash sideways and Jin knocks on Sun's door, telling her he's going to the restaurant...she says it's late and starts to seduce him. She teases him about him making her button her top, he replies "you never know who's watching".....Sun says no one was watching them, but later in the episode, that they were wrong, that Mr. Paik was indeed watching them.

Cut to Locke coming to Sun while she is in the garden....he tempts her with Jin and she doesn't believe him as he killed those people at the temple. He says those people had a choice to come with him and they didn't, he would never ask her to do something against her will...come, Jin is waiting.

She cuts and runs away, and in the process knocks herself out on a tree...she gets a big bump on her head

Cut to Jin and Sun waking up in bed in the morning. Sun had a plan all along to runaway together in America, she's saved and has an account. She asks is he angry, and he tells her no, that he does love her. She says, "there is something I need for you to know..." and she is interrupted by the knocking on the door.

Jin hides in the bathroom and she stops to examine herself in the mirror, just as Jack did on the plane, as Sawyer did when he smashed it, when Sayid saw his reflection in Nadia's door, and as Locke did in the bathroom mirror. Definitely there is a thing with reflection this season.

Cut to Jin in the "room". The same room where I think Karl was held when they were doing the "psychological testing" on him. After flipping the switch, Jin quickly turns it off and Zoe comes in explaining that that is where the Dharma Initiative did all of the subliminal testing. He asks what do you want from me? And she brings out the Dharma maps with the grid and the locations of the Electromagnetic pockets. They are signed by Jin Su Kwon, and she says that would be a big help to her if he could explain the maps to her. He says he's leaving, and she stuns him with the stun gun. He says, let me talk to your boss, Charles Whidmore.

Cut to Locke returning to camp and finding them all out. He revives Sayid who explains they were attacked, but he doesn't know who. Later when they are all awake, Sayid and Locke plan to go to Hydra Island. Claire comes over and wants to know if her name were on the wall. No, but I still need you. Was Kate's name on the wall? No, but I am three people shy of getting off this island and Kate can help me. Once Kate helps me get theose other people here, "whatever happens, happens." This implies that Claire then has the green light to kill Kate. Which, imo, is another deception on XLocke's part. He needs to get all of the 6 candidates to go with him off of the Island because then he can kill them all when he's off the island, and there will be no more candidates, most likely. But, we also already know that they will all die if XLocke gets off the island. It's all moot.

Sawyer then approaches and asks where they are going and Locke replies they are taking the boat and going to Hydra Island. Sawyer says why do you need the boat, and we find out that the black smoke cannot fly off of the Islands. He responds that they took one of our people, so I'm going to get him back.

Cut back to Sun and Jin and their conversation with Leamy and Omar...get Danny's friend, Mikhail...

Cut to the beach and Ben asks Ilana why she doesn't believe him that he found Sun already unconscious, and she responds, "because you are speaking". Sun has aphasia and when she got knocked on the head and now she cannot speak English.
Richard and Hurley return, Richard says, "pack your bags, we're leaving"

Back at Hydra Island Locke lands on the beach. He is fired upon by Widmore's men, he says he comes in peace and says he wants to talk to Widmore. He walks down the beach on the outside perimeter of the pylons and Widmore appears...."Do you know who I am?"
"Charles Widmore, do you know who I am?"
"Obviously you are not John Locke. Most likely a combination of myths, ghost stories, and jungle noises in the night. Why are you here?"
"Where have you taken Jin?"
"I have no idea what you are talking about"
"A wise man once said that a war was coming to this Island, I think it just got here."

John Locke quoted Charles Widmore to himself, when he told John Locke when he was recovering from the broken leg....a war was coming to the Island....and if you aren't back there, the wrong side will win.

Cut to Richard asking Ben where Locke said he was going. ..."you said he came to recruit you, where did he say he'd be?"
Hydra Island.
"Which is exactly where you said you landed the plane that you flew back here, right?" Frank nods his head, yes. Richard continues that XLocke wants to leave the Island and that plane's the only way he can do it. You want to know where we're going, we're going to stop him."
"How are we going to stop him from getting on the plane?"
Richard tells them that they will destroy it.

Upon hearing this, Sun flips out, and stomps off, and Hurley notes, "I don't think she wants to come"

Cut to the bank with Mikhail translating, and Sun finds out that Mr. Paik has closed her account, she asks Mikhail why would he do that, and he responds, "Why do you think?"

Cut to Omar knocking Jin's head on the refrigerator door as he shoves him in...just as Sun was knocked in the head! Someone up above noted that when Sun gets knocked in the head she can no longer speak English, but when Jin gets knocked in the head, he can speak some English....I didn't really notice this, but I like it!

Leamy proceeds to tell Jin how unhappy Mr. Paik was when he found out about he and Sun saying that that was what the $25,000 was for, to pop him. "the heart wants, what the heart wants"...sorry, some people aren't meant to be together. this last statement reminds me of what Sawyer just told Kate after Juliet died....that some people were just meant to be alone.

Cut to Widmore arriving at Room 23, and he and Zoe are arguing, why didn't she stick to the timeline, blah, blah, blah. She responds, "maybe you should have ad a mercinary in charge...which is a direct referral to Keamy and that time the mercenary failed the task. He responds with what's done is done....an ongoing theme of Lost. Just like XLocke responded to Claire with Kate once she's served her purpose....whatever happens, happens.

Then we have the scene with Jin and Charles Whidmore. He apologizes for everything that's been done to him. Jin wants to know why he brought him there. He responds that he found the camera that belonged to Sun on the Ajira Airways plane and thought he might want to have it. He hands him the camera, and a wonderful scene follows. Jin sees Ji Yeon for the very first time. Great acting here by Daniel Dae Kim. Charles steps back as he views the film and then proceeds. "I understand you've never seen her before. I have a daughter too. I understand what it's like to be kept apart. I understand that one thing you want is to be reunited iwth your wife and daughter, but it would be shortlived if that thing masquerading as John Locke ever got off this Island. Your wife, your daughter, my daughter, everyone we know and love would simply cease to be. I came here to make sure that doesn't happen.
Jin says, "how?"
Widmore says "come with me. I think it's time for you to see the package"
"What package?"
"It's not a what, it's a who."

Cut to the scene where Sun and Mikhail arrive at the restaurant....Jin shoots Mikhail in the eye and kills him, but Sun is shot by a stray bullet in the abdomen, and she tells Jin that she is pregnant!!! This was a great scene, imo.
Most likely, the pregnancy will survive, as in the real time line, they have a daughter.

I think that in the sideways world Jin was not infertile. Also, I realize that the fact that they had no money was what indeed saved Jin's very life....the fact that everything went so wrong, made it right...

Cut to Jack and Sun on the beach...Jack gives her the one tomato that he found in her garden....one stubborn tomato that no one told it it was supposed to die. I think this is symbolic....of the one that perserveres to become the new Jacob. The lone candidate. Or, could this refer to someone that appears dead but may refuse to die....Locke? Don't know, but I still hold hope that the real John Locke will rise again.

But, Jack is indeed the stubborn one, imo. He tells her that she is not the only one to tell him to leave them alone.....Kate did, Hurley did, Sawyer did....

He wants to know what Locke said to her....she writes "he said he had Jin."
Why didn't you go with him? "I don't trust him"
Do you trust me? "Yes"

Jack says, "Sun, come with us and I'll help you find Jin and get you both on that plane and as far away as you can get....I promise." He offers her his hand and she takes it. Of course she trusts in Jack. Just as Kate has, just as Sayid did in the Temple when Dogan wanted to give him the poison pill. For me, I am almost convinced that Jack is the chosen one. He is the one that they all have faith in....

But, who else also asks people to trust in him....XLocke, MiB....but the difference between smokey and Jack is that Jack enlists trust for solid, valid reasons...for the good of them all. MiB/XLocke enlists trust solely for selfish reasons.

Cut to the submarine at night and we see Widmore's man and Zoe pulling out a very drugged man....we see Sayid swimming up to the pier. The man stumbles to the edge of the dock and we see that it is DESMOND!!!!, and he looks down and sees Sayid looking up at him! They pull "Mr. Hume" up and continue down the dock.....after all when Locke returned to the camp without Sayid or Jin, Sawyer asked him where Jin was, and he replied that Whidmore had denied knowing about it. Then Sawyer asked him if he had lost Sayid too, and XLocke replied about the locked room and how he didn't like secrets. Implying that Sayid was back addressing the secret room.

The show ends with DESMOND!!!! Somehow they are going to ultimately contain the MiB/XLocke to the Island with the electromagnetic properties of the Island.

For me, Desmond is the KEY. He is the one that was at the root of keeping the electromagnetic pockets and forces at bay. Because of him, the plane crashed. He is the one that Daniel told how to survive the time travel, by getting a constant. And, the constant that Desmond chose was indeed a valid one and it worked, Penny, his true love.

While this story has many, many rivalries... Desmond vs. Whidmore, Ben vs. Whidmore, the others vs. the losties, Locke vs. Jack, Sawyer vs. Jack, the others vs. Dharma, etc, etc, it is all boiling down to keeping XLocke/MiB contained on the Island. If he gets off, then they will all be in hell, they will all die, and life as they know it will no longer exist. It is far more about saving the world then anything else. And Desmond is the key to unlocking the mystery of the Island...I think. We are already seeing most of the Losties coming to the same conclusion. Jack knows they have a greater purpose, Sun agrees to go with him. Ben has agreed to go, Hurley is clearly agreeing to go along. Jin clearly is rejecting XLocke and will be recruited by Widmore. Kate doesn't buy what XLocke is selling, and Sawyer sees it as well. Everyone but Sayid and Claire. But Sayid is the only one of the candidates that seems so lost at this point. I have hope that Sayid will even be brought around, and most likely by the one he trusts....Jack.

The task that is upon them in the here and now is the ONLY thing that matters. Nothing in the past will matter if they can not complete the task...they need to totally dump the past to face the present. They are all capable, imo.

They will live and fight together, or die alone!


"RE: My Take...."
Posted by michel on 03-31-10 at 08:34 PM
LAST EDITED ON 03-31-10 AT 08:36 PM (EST)

I do agree with a lot of your take FP. I just have a few comments:

When Xlocke talked with Claire about needing Kate for now but that later "what happens happens" it reminded me a lot of Survivor talk! We need Kate to form our alliance but, once we have the numbers, you can vote her out!
(Kate is so Amanda!)

I wonder if there was a specific reason why Widmore went after Jin. I understand that, by keeping the candidates apart, XLocke can't leave the island but why Jin? Why not Sawyer or Sayid or all three since all three were available? The only thing I see is that Widmore could use Jin to convince Sun to come his way. And, if he gets Sun, he may get Jack and Hurley.

I'm not convinced that Jack is the chosen one as far as protecting the island. Jack's destiny is to Outwit and Outplay MIB and get everyone off the island. Someone else is destined to be the island's protector and I still think it's going to be Aaron. Someone from the Shepard lineage and the only baby that was born on the island in many years. That could be why Claire is so important to Xlocke.

As for Desmond, the guy didn't know anything when he left the island, what could he possibly reveal now? I've always been very ambivalent about Desmond. I found him to be an incredibly dumb tool when he was pushing the numbers, I hated it when he introduced the "visions of the future" storyline but I did enjoy his story with Penny. Could Widmore just want to keep Desmond away from Penny?

Widmore also sees MIB as a threat to the outside world and he was more definitive than what we've heard up to now: Everything would cease to exist. Sort of like an Incident of unparalleled proportions.


"RE: My Take...."
Posted by Flowerpower on 04-01-10 at 09:16 AM
LAST EDITED ON 04-01-10 AT 09:20 AM (EST)

When Xlocke talked with Claire about needing Kate for now but that later "what happens happens" it reminded me a lot of Survivor talk! We need Kate to form our alliance but, once we have the numbers, you can vote her out!
(Kate is so Amanda!)

Ha!

I wonder if there was a specific reason why Widmore went after Jin. I understand that, by keeping the candidates apart, XLocke can't leave the island but why Jin? Why not Sawyer or Sayid or all three since all three were available? The only thing I see is that Widmore could use Jin to convince Sun to come his way. And, if he gets Sun, he may get Jack and Hurley.

Well, I got the feeling it was Jin primarily because of Zoe going "days" ahead of the plan. She wanted to get her hands on Jin first as he was the key to the maps that the Dharma Initiative had of the electromagnetic pockets. As the geophysicist, she is after the special properties of the Island. I am convinced that somehow these special electromagnetic properties will be needed to sustain the "cork", and to bound Smokey to the Island.

Clearly, Widmore has a very well thought out plan. When he first emerged on the sub as it was passing the Lostie's beach, his captain told him about their siting, and asked him if he wanted to stop, and he definitively replied, "No, proceed as planned".

Jin, however, was indeed a part of the plan. He was very easy to manipulate with the camera that they had confiscated from the plane. And, one can assume that if you have Jin, that Sun will indeed follow and seek him out. Widmore is known for doing great reconnaissance and research on the Losties...remember he had large files on each of the Oceanic 6 that he gave to Locke to recruit them. He stated that he knew that he and Sun had been a part for a very long time, and knew that the one thing that he wanted was to get back to his wife and daughter. Somehow Widmore has been watching their camp....just as we saw them viewing the camp with night vision goggles. Jin was indeed getting ready to take off.

It wasn't really Widmore that ok'd this kidnapping though...as to why they didn't take all of the Losties at this time, I don't know. Clearly, it's not part of the plan yet. Perhaps they don't have the resources to have taken them all. I don't know, but I'm sure we'll be privy to the plan as it unfolds.

Regarding the final candidate who will resume the position of protector. I don't know, I could be wrong. As I said, I'm still holding out some hope for Locke. I don't think it's Aaron though, but I could definitely be wrong. I think it's one of the 6. I see Claire as valuable as Kate is valuable. As a pawn that XLocke uses to lure the other Losties. I don't think Jack or Hurley would leave Kate or Claire behind. Regardless, they are being used by XLocke.

Desmond, imo, is the key. He is the one that contained the electromagnetic powers for so long. Regardless of what he knew and thought he knew, I think there will be something to be gained from Desmond, and that will be the key to unleashing the mystery of the electromagnetic power. Widmore must realize this as well, otherwise why is he there. We all know the Island is not done with him yet. He's also the one that seemed to time travel with the stability that his constant gave him. Did anyone else on this show do it so successfully? The constant for all, imo, should indeed be the ones or one you love. I love Desmond and his character. I loved his whole back story. Desmond has so much in common with Jin at this point as well. He's now married, and with a child. And no one will want to get off that island more than Desmond and Jin, as they have too much to lose. I can not wait for the next episode!

I can't wait to see how Widmore recruits Desmond to effectively commit to the plan, after all that he's done to him. I can't help but parallel the way that both XLocke and Widmore operate. Very similiar indeed. The difference, if there is one, is their motives.

Could Desmond just want to keep Desmond away from Penny?

Well, you could consider that, but clearly, I believe that this quest that they are on is far more important than petty selfish motives. It's the big picture that's important now and all of our heroes are going to be needed to do it. It should be GOOD!


"RE: My Take...."
Posted by michel on 04-01-10 at 05:41 PM
"She wanted to get her hands on Jin first as he was the key to the maps that the Dharma Initiative had of the electromagnetic pockets"

I know that she said he signed the maps but when did that happen? Jin wasn't interested in EM forces, was he?

I still think Widmore only wants the island for his personal benefit. He wants to exploit it somehow. His concern with putting a cork on smokey is because of what would happen to Penny. I think all he's ever done was for the island and Penny so even the race he sponsored that got Desmond to the island is part of all this. He tried once to put a cork on Desmond, he may be doing it again.


"RE: My Take...."
Posted by Flowerpower on 04-02-10 at 08:11 AM

Yes, I hear you, michel. I don't quite get Widmore either. Up until now I have not trusted Widmore as having good intentions. I have never trusted him, especially when he sent the mercenaries to kill Ben and then everyone else on the Island...that makes no sense unless he indeed is out to exploit the Island for his own benefit somehow....still puzzling. Like I said, he operates like the MiB/XLocke. Clearly, he can not be pure black and white!

We know that Widmore wants XLocke to remain contained on the island.....but, what else does he want?



"RE: My Take...."
Posted by michel on 04-02-10 at 12:01 PM
"We know that Widmore wants XLocke to remain contained on the island.....but, what else does he want?"

I think this is all related to the Purge which may have been the biggest move in this game. I thought the Purge could have been orchestrated by Smokey somehow because we know Dharma needed protection from him. Since we also know that someone chased Jacob from his cabin, I speculated that Smokey took Jacob's place and started giving Richard new orders that led to the destruction of Dharma. The problem here is that Smokey didn't really get what he wanted despite the Purge.

But, what if Dharma wanted to help Smokey leave the island? They could have thought that, with Smokey gone, the island would be easier to exploit. Or what if opening up that pocket of EM forces was another escape route for Smokey? The Others, knowing that Smokey had to be "corked", could have been forced to put an end to Dharma.

Do we know if Widmore was banished before or after the Purge?

If he was still in charge of the Others at that point, he may have been interested to use Dharma's work for his own benefit while keeping Smokey in check. This could have been what Ben meant about Widmore's outside interest and this kind of double dealings would have led to his exile.

If he wasn't in charge anymore like I think we have seen, then he used what Dharma had learned to be in a position to exploit the island with the added knowledge that Smokey had to be contained.



"Widmore and Desmond"
Posted by weltek on 04-05-10 at 01:10 PM
I think it's quite possible Widmore so badly tried to keep Desmond and Penny apart because Widmore knew Desmond's fate...to "sacrifice" himself for the island. If Eleanor knew the island wasn't done with Desmond and "you can't change fate," of course Widmore also probably knew this and would want to keep Des & Penny from falling in love. No father wants to see his daughter go through that. It's not just simply about a father not liking his daughter's choice of a partner because he's a poor man with a sketchy background.


-A Tribetastic Creation


"RE: My Take...."
Posted by weltek on 04-01-10 at 09:52 AM
I don't think Jacob knew who the chosen one would be because it hadn't been "revealed" yet. There are actions yet to be seen. Even if Jack is "the chosen one," I don't think he'd stay on the island. That's not Jack. I can see an ending where it's built up that it's him, and he'll have to make a last minute decision to leave the island or stay. I have a feeling nobody makes the sacrifice and they decide an alternate way to end this all. I don't think Jack is enamored with protecting the island. I think he's still pissed off at it, but has reflected on his "purpose," and may realize his purpose is to be a free thinker and not choose sides, but rather come up with a different way to end this whole story of the island.

-A Tribetastic Creation

"RE: My Take...."
Posted by blacknwhitedog on 03-31-10 at 08:59 PM
excellent summary FP! see I thought that episode told us a lot


Handcrafted by RollDdice 2005


"RE: My Take...."
Posted by weltek on 04-01-10 at 09:39 AM
I have to say, I'm so, so excited that Desmond is back. He and Penny are the ones that have consistently given me hope and tears. I've never been connected to the LOST love square, Jin and Sun, Rose and Bernard, etc. Desmond and Penny have the ultimate love story, IMHO, and Darlton have always said this show is just as much, if not more, about the people than the mystery. I have no doubt that we are to fall in love with Desmond and Penny by design, thus telling me Desmond will be a hero in some way, yet again.

As Eleanor once told Desmond, "The island is not done with you yet." Also, Faraday once told Desmond (during a time travel where he knocks on the Swan door and Desmond answers in a yellow suit) that he has some miraculous, special ability nobody else has and is the only one that can save them. Guess Faraday meant that in a bigger sense than just that moment.

I'm still awaiting the return of the Faraday story. I keep going back to his girlfriend being kept alive by Widmore's money and him sitting in front of that tv crying at the Oceanic crash news. There is a deeper story there we don't yet have all the pieces for, me thinks.



-A Tribetastic Creation


"RE: My Take...."
Posted by Flowerpower on 04-01-10 at 10:09 AM

Great thoughts there, Weltek. Yes, I have to say that I have pondered the resolution to the Island and smokey without a protector as well. Something that possibly marry the resolution on the Island, and the Flash: Sideways. Definitely has something to do with the Electromagnetic powers of the island.

As Eleanor once told Desmond, "The island is not done with you yet." Also, Faraday once told Desmond (during a time travel where he knocks on the Swan door and Desmond answers in a yellow suit) that he has some miraculous, special ability nobody else has and is the only one that can save them. Guess Faraday meant that in a bigger sense than just that moment.

Yes, you are right, and thanks for bringing this up. I had forgotten the scene with Faraday and Desmond. I will have to go in search of that scene and replay it. I remember Faraday instructing Desmond then, and yes, perhaps that's why I knew that Desmond would indeed be the "key".

Also great to bring up the Faraday story again, and yes, it will hopefully provide a big puzzle peice to the resolution as well. Thanks.