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"Discussion Thread Ep. 6.07: "Dr Linus""
Posted by mrc on 03-04-10 at 12:40 PM
This thread is for discussion of the episode once it airs on the Left Coast or for spoiler-free discussion prior to the episode. Please keep all spoilers in the designated thread.

(Note: The episode description and guest casting are in the spoiler thread.)

Table of contents
Messages in this discussion
"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.07: "Dr Linus""
Posted by Breezy on 03-08-10 at 09:12 AM
Is it Tuesday yet?
"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.07: "Dr Linus""
Posted by Max Headroom on 03-09-10 at 02:51 PM
This is the episode focused on Sayid, right?
"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.07: "Dr Linus""
Posted by CTgirl on 03-09-10 at 03:19 PM
Glad to know you are consistent!
"Just a comment"
Posted by moonbaby on 03-09-10 at 10:53 PM
Michael Emerson is amazing.

"RE: Just a comment"
Posted by CTgirl on 03-09-10 at 11:25 PM
Word. His acting was phenomenal tonight.

And he is still walking the edge between good and evil. Loved it. More tomorrow.

"RE: Just a comment"
Posted by zombiebaby on 03-10-10 at 06:04 AM
Oooh, the scene when Jack and the others came back on the beach? All his acting in his posture. Amazing. He looked liked a humbled outsider.
"RE: Just a comment"
Posted by trigirl on 03-10-10 at 07:05 AM
totally! Get that man an Emmy! I wanted to go give him a big hug.

Regarding Jack and Guyliner, it was a bit disconcerting to see Richard so out of sorts. Jack sure is getting the "Candidate" edit. Makes me worry, as I have always been on team Jack.

So Jacob's touch give you a gift. Eternal life? Want to know more about Richard's story now. If he met Jacob before coming to the Island on the Black Rock when did he meet Smokey?

"Crazy, huh?"
Posted by moonbaby on 03-10-10 at 09:57 AM
I wanted to go give him a big hug

Never thought my heart would break for him!

Have to add that nobody but nobody plays a reunion scene out better than these guys. No words, simply the characters' expressions and music. Gets me every time. *sniffle*
Those bastards

"RE: Crazy, huh?"
Posted by emydi on 03-10-10 at 10:22 AM
ditto I love Hurley
"me too"
Posted by moonbaby on 03-10-10 at 11:54 AM
he's almost afraid to mention that Jacob is still talking to him-you can see how he anticipates everyone else's response to it.

Jorge Garcia rocks-no matter how small a part he may have in a particular scene he lights it up.

"RE: me too"
Posted by emydi on 03-10-10 at 11:59 AM
I don't know what being a candidate all entails but Hurley is my vote if it's good
"RE: Just a comment"
Posted by BrassFan on 03-10-10 at 10:18 AM
>So Jacob's touch give you a
>gift. Eternal life?
>Want to know more about
>Richard's story now.

You only have to wait two more weeks.

"I gotta add BEN to my siggie!!!"
Posted by Flowerpower on 03-10-10 at 10:40 AM
LAST EDITED ON 03-10-10 AT 10:51 AM (EST)

This was a phenomenal all around episode and I agree, GREAT acting by Michael Emerson. I loved some of his lines, and Miles' as well. "Where's Jarrah?"
"I'm fine, thank-you for asking!"
"Where is he?"
"Considering he just killed Dogan, I don't think he's going to be joining us."
"Who's Dogan?"
"The leader of the Temple"
"Sayid killed the interpreter, too"
"Are you sure?"
"He was standing over their dead bodies holding a bloody dagger, so yeah, I'm pretty sure."

Then Miles' noting that "right before you stabbed him with that dagger he was still hoping that he was wrong about you"...

His acting was brilliant. And, I just loved the whole episode from start to finish. His Flash: Sideways mirrored him to the letter, I thought. Right from the beginning when he was teaching his class and spoke of Napolean's fall from power, he might as well be dead, and it all happened on the island!

And, Arzt comment, "you're a real killer".

And, I especially loved their conclusions....YES, I was thrilled to see Ben make the right choices. I have viewed him as a victim forever.

Loved his interaction with Locke and then again his scene with Ilana.

All he wanted was a chance to explain. The thing with Ben is that for me he has always been a victim. He has always tried to take "shortcuts". He even said to Sayid when he went to get him to join Ilana and her group, that he knew a "shortcut...it's not too late". Ben always tried to take the "shortcut" through trying and difficult times, ending up doing the wrong things for the right reasons.

Now we see his story coming to an end, a GREAT end at that. In the end in flash: sideways and on the Island, Ben chose the right path. He is showing that all of his actions in the past were the wrong ones, and he sees it and wants redemption. He recognizes that he killed Jacob because he was "angry, confused, terrified that he was about to lose the only thing that had ever mattered to him, his power. But, the thing that really mattered was already gone, Alex." He is truly sorry for his actions, regardless if they were done for the right reasons. In the end, he chooses the right path, in Flash: sideways and on the Island. GREAT end for Ben....

We also saw him tempted by evil incarnate with the one thing we thought he always wanted, to be left in charge of the Island. But, we know that MIB/XLocke will tempt and lie to recruit.

So regarding Jack, Hurley, and Richard....when Jacob touches you, you can't die...it's a gift. Who has received the gift:

1. Hurley
2. Sayid....so, is this really the reason that Sayid came back to life, because he coudn't die? But, I thought that someone else could indeed kill you?
3. Sawyer
4. Kate
5. Jack
6. The Kwon's


7....LOCKE???? No longer a candidate. Crossed off

What about John Locke? We did see him come back to life when touched by Jacob. Richard said he wasn't able to kill himself, but someone else could....so if Jack had not been touched by Jacob, he would have indeed been able to kill Richard. So Locke, was killed by Ben.


Thus, Richard, MIB, Jacob all never seemed to age. Now our hero's will not age. Wonder if that applies to them off of the Island as well. (Richard and Jacob have both appeared off of the Island)

And, at last, Widmore has arrived. We knew he was coming. I won't be surprised when Desmond shows up later as well???

Wanted to add that the scene with Ben and Ilana where he "explains" was one of the best scenes ever....very moving and touching. I also LOVED his return to beach camp, where he asks Sun if he can help, then they look over and see Hurley, Jack and Richard coming, and the joy that they all feel together. A GREAT Lost moment!

Just loved this episode.



"RE: I gotta add BEN to my siggie!!!"
Posted by BrassFan on 03-10-10 at 01:08 PM

>This was a phenomenal all around
>episode and I agree, GREAT
>acting by Michael Emerson. I
>loved some of his lines,
>and Miles' as well. "Where's
>Jarrah?"
>"I'm fine, thank-you for asking!"

For some reason, I found that to be the line of the night..

"RE: I gotta add BEN to my siggie!!!"
Posted by Carezy on 03-10-10 at 05:14 PM

>
>So regarding Jack, Hurley, and Richard....when
>Jacob touches you, you can't
>die...it's a gift. Who has
>received the gift:
>


I think that it isn't that you can't die, but more you can't kill yourself. So the reason the dynamite didn't blow up was because Jack lit it, but didn't leave. If he had left, he could've killed Richard (that's how I understood it). Jack's being there stopped the fuse from hitting the explossives since he is also unable to kill himself.

>
>What about John Locke? We did
>see him come back to
>life when touched by Jacob.
>Richard said he wasn't able
>to kill himself, but someone
>else could....so if Jack had
>not been touched by Jacob,
>he would have indeed been
>able to kill Richard. So
>Locke, was killed by Ben.
>
>

John Locke was about to try to kill himself, but was interupted by Ben... who then ended up killing Locke in the hotel room (not making it a suicide).

>
>Thus, Richard, MIB, Jacob all never
>seemed to age. Now our
>hero's will not age. Wonder
>if that applies to them
>off of the Island as
>well. (Richard and Jacob have
>both appeared off of the
>Island)
>


I don't know if the gift that Richard received is the same gift that the others have received too. I just took it as being that his particular gift was that he didn't age. Sawyer and Kate were both "touched" as children, but they have grown up since then.

I guess whoever is picked as the New Jacob will not age though.


"RE: I gotta add BEN to my siggie!!!"
Posted by trigirl on 03-10-10 at 05:59 PM
Presumably then Michael was touched once-upon-a-time. Remember Friendly said he could not kill himself. He tried twice, if I remember correctly.

"RE: Just a comment"
Posted by warp_core breach on 03-10-10 at 11:41 AM
>totally! Get that man an
>Emmy!

He missed out on the Golden Globe... boo!


A Gift from Agman


"RE: Just a comment"
Posted by Breezy on 03-10-10 at 08:15 AM
Emmy winning performance right there.
"Good Episode"
Posted by Breezy on 03-10-10 at 08:18 AM
No real answers, but it was a good episode.

Jack seems to be figuring out things on his own? How did he know Jacob wouldn't let him die?

So in the alternate timeline, Ben finally puts Alex first. *sniff* Also, he and his father were on the Island for awhile.

Widmore is coming! Widmore is coming!!!

"RE: Good Episode"
Posted by trigirl on 03-10-10 at 09:24 AM
Also, he and his father were on the Island for awhile.

Yeah, I assumed that in LaX there was no Dharma, but that is not the case. Ben and Roger were there but did not speak fondly about their time on the Island. Does that mean that Dharma was there, but smokey was not. If there was not smokey does that mean that dead mommy wasn't there either....which seemed to set things in motion for young Ben.


"Is Widmore"
Posted by moonbaby on 03-10-10 at 09:59 AM
the person Jacob was referring to? And if he is, then Widmore is a good guy?
"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.07: "Dr Linus""
Posted by Max Headroom on 03-10-10 at 11:28 AM
Great episode. Didn't have many answers, but it was very entertaining. And I agree, Michael Emerson's performance was outstanding.

Am I the only one who's worried about Widmore's arrival?


agman 2009

"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.07: "Dr Linus""
Posted by warp_core breach on 03-10-10 at 12:03 PM
Loved this episode but of course I've always been partial to Ben.

I am impressed at how his character has developed from villain to tormented man. He showed "Island Ben" traits when he tried to blackmail the principal but in the end finally chose Alex over himself. It would have been easier to go to Flocke but he decided to stay with Iliana. Loved his demeanor of being separate & apart from everyone on the beach. His story is concluding & I'm sure I won't be disappointed by the time the series ends.

So Dharma & the island still existed... hmm. That was a surprise.

So is Widmore the one Jacob was talking about? Is he there to save them from Flocke? To help Flocke? To help himself to the island? He didn't leave the island on good terms. Should be interesting.

They're finally in the same time period... I want Sun & Jin to finally reunite already!!

Onlt 9 more episodes left before the finale... is it me or has it been going quick?


A Gift from Agman


"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.07: "Dr Linus""
Posted by michel on 03-10-10 at 06:04 PM
I liked reading everyone's comments. To those who say Lost knows how to reunite people get a box of tissue ready for when Sun and Jin reunite!

I understood the gift much like Carezy: The gift depends on the individual's prayers. Richard wanted to live forever and Ben wanted power.

(I loved the comparison with Napoleon who lost his powers when he was sent to an island while Ben received his power on an island.)

The episode, to make a Survivor analogy, was great for character development but not so much for "strategy". We didn't learn much that we didn't know or suspect. Richard did come on the ship a very long time ago. We know what it means when the "Island won't let you die" like it happened to Micheal.

Now that we have proof that Jacob's influence is still very real (the dynamite did not explode) we can presume with more certainty that Jacob isn't dead.

I still wonder if Hurley isn't Jacob's loophole? When Hurley talks to Jacob, you could say it appears to others as if he is talking to himself, right? What if he really is? Maybe Jacob doesn't appear to Hurley but is a manifestation of his conscience. Like Bruce Wayne, Hurley had to leave the room so that his "superhero" character could come back and save Jack and Richard!!!

"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.07: "Dr Linus""
Posted by Flowerpower on 03-11-10 at 06:47 AM
Now that we have proof that Jacob's influence is still very real (the dynamite did not explode) we can presume with more certainty that Jacob isn't dead.

Well, I have suspected this since we saw MIB/XLocke see either a young Jacob/boy or the apparition of him...Richard didn't see him, but Sawyer did. Clearly, Jacob is definitely monitoring and active on the Island.


"I have a theory"
Posted by dabo on 03-11-10 at 01:38 PM
I'm beginning to think Jacob is still alive and hiding somewhere on the island. How could this be?

He's a telepath. Very powerful telepaths are supposed to be able to use their powers as a form of mind control to make others see and hear things that aren't actually there.

"RE: I have a theory"
Posted by weltek on 03-12-10 at 11:37 AM
I don't think Jacob or Smokey need to be physically alive to control things/have power. I think they need to be a physical being in order to use some powers (such as Jacob's power to touch people and them being unable to die at their own hands).

So, I can agree he's a telepath of some sort, but his own physical body is gone, IMHO.


-A Tribetastic Creation

"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.07: "Dr Linus""
Posted by CTgirl on 03-10-10 at 06:34 PM
Here are a few random impressions from last night:

As I said above, Ben was amazing. His character has walked that fine line between good and evil since we met him as Henry Gale. He can convey so much with just a dejected hunch of his shoulders! Early on Michael Emerson said that Ben wasn't bad; it must have been a sense he had about his character. Unlike Sayid, who was a killer in every life, Ben was able to choose the right path at last.

The show also had very dark overtones: Ilana wanted to kill Ben, Ben was digging his own grave; Richard wanted someone to kill him. We are reaching the lowest, bleakest part of the story in good versus evil!

Early on in his flash sideways Ben said it's about "taking care of the kids." To me this is a direct reference to the importance of kids on the island too. We've seen the importance of the kids on the airplane, Walt and Aaron. I hope we get the answer to why women can't carry a baby to term on the island. It seems that this theme of taking care of the children is reoccurring again this season.

I thought Ilana's comment "Jacob was the closest thing I had to a father" was very interesting. Each week I realize that she has more and more knowledge about the island and I find her more and more interesting. Did she live on the island or did Jacob spend a lot of time off island? Her "I'll have you" to Ben was a great moment. She is a woman with a mission.

And my favorite parts: the instrumental music on the beach as Jack and Hurley are reunited with Sun and Frank - so reminiscent of Season 1. And Hurley talking to Richard, "Are you a cyborg? Are you a vampire?"

Widmore is coming! Not a surprise to see him, but still! (Did anyone make out what Widmore said in response to the periscope guy when he asked, "There are people on the beach, do you want to go in?" I listened to it a couple of times and couldn't understand what he said, "No....?"


"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.07: "Dr Linus""
Posted by Flowerpower on 03-10-10 at 10:08 PM

I totally agree, CTgirl, with all of your thoughts. That was such an amazing scene with Ilana and Ben....he just wanted to explain! I loved the "I'll take you"! Just a very moving scene. And then, when they returned to the beach and the music started playing and Ben offered his help to Sun. An exhausted Frank throws a log on the fire and sits down heavily, while Miles admires a diamond, and then we see a shot of a grieving Ilana....wow. Then their arrival on the beach was just so powerful....I loved how Jack stepped back to acknowledge Ben as well.

Regarding Widmore, the guy at the periscope said, "Mr. Widmore, there are people on the beach, should we stop?" (Or, something like that?), and Widmore said, No, proceed as planned."


"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.07: "Dr Linus""
Posted by CTgirl on 03-10-10 at 10:40 PM
proceed as planned

Thanks. I knew he said something to that effect, I just couldn't understand him!!

"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.07: "Dr Linus""
Posted by blacknwhitedog on 03-10-10 at 10:33 PM
LOVED loved loved that episode!


2005 PhoenixMons

"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.07: "Dr Linus""
Posted by Tummy on 03-11-10 at 11:57 AM
I cried when Ilana told Ben she'd have him.

On to Ilana - I find her character jarring for some reason, it's like she doesn't belong. I feel no emotional connection to her.

"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.07: "Dr Linus""
Posted by michel on 03-11-10 at 06:01 PM
LAST EDITED ON 03-11-10 AT 06:04 PM (EST)

Maybe it's the name but she reminds me of Liliana from Survivor: Strong woman, but very little substance.

I laughed when Miles couldn't hold the door that she busted open, she doesn't mess around but, except for a couple of lines, she's a stone.


"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.07: "Dr Linus""
Posted by weltek on 03-12-10 at 11:39 AM
I keep thinking we'll get her backstory (at least more than the snippit we got earlier). LOST is about building relationships between the characters and the audience. I find it hard to believe the writers would just flippantly ignore that we don't know anything about Illana.


-A Tribetastic Creation

"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.07: "Dr Linus""
Posted by michel on 03-12-10 at 05:25 PM
Is it possible that Ana Lucia was originally the one intended to play Ilana's role? After firing her, they had to somehow introduce another tough woman to act as protector so maybe that's why her character is so underdeveloped.
"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.07: "Dr Linus""
Posted by dabo on 03-11-10 at 01:29 PM
LAST EDITED ON 03-11-10 AT 01:31 PM (EST)

Great episode! I have to admit, the redemption of Ben Linus at the end was something I never expected.

So, Ben and Roger left the Dharma Initiative, but from the conversation they had it seems they are unaware that the island sank. Danielle and Alex probably never were on the island, if they were they managed to escape. I'm still left wondering when and how the island was destroyed.

Agree with the Gift of Jacob being different for each person he touched. Or it may be that off the island the gift was simply becoming a candidate and being destined to go to the island at some point. Richard's gift had a more specific purpose on the island.

Richard, typically, doesn't divulge anything worthwhile even though he is trying to get himself killed. Frustrating.

Ilana said there were only six candidates remaining. Presumably she meant Jack, Hurley, Sawyer, Sayid, Jin and Sun even though Austin and three other names were not crossed out.

GRRRRR!!!

Widmore's coming! With a small crew on the sub. More red shirts?

"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.07: "Dr Linus""
Posted by weltek on 03-11-10 at 02:48 PM
LAST EDITED ON 03-11-10 AT 02:49 PM (EST)

Ilana may assume Kate is dead back at the temple (and maybe the other names, too).

ETA: Hm. Or maybe Austen isn't Kate. Did she rename Aaron, so he's now Aaron Austen? A leap, but hey, it's LOST.


-A Tribetastic Creation

"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.07: "Dr Linus""
Posted by Tummy on 03-11-10 at 02:58 PM
I think it's Jin OR Sun not both of them.
"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.07: "Dr Linus""
Posted by dragonflies on 03-15-10 at 11:52 AM
I think somehow Iliana knows that Kate is with XLocke, and therefore assumes she was recruited by him, and therefore no longer a candidate


"RE: Discussion Thread Ep. 6.07: "Dr Linus""
Posted by mrc on 03-11-10 at 11:51 PM
Would zombs be surprised if I said that in real life, I look remarkably like Ben did tonight?

Awesome episode. I almost cried for Ben.

Tribefied

"Dude!~"
Posted by zombiebaby on 03-13-10 at 02:38 PM
I totally thought of you this entire episode! I felt like it was you! You do have cronies like Arzt right?

I also thought of weltek when Hurley woke up and said "cheese curds".

I loved this episode too. It's funny though, while I am enjoying this season it does not feel the same. Anyone else get this? I don't know what it is. It's like there is no mystery anymore even though we still have questions, does this make sense?

I felt like we used to rush to the boards with analysis and Easter Egg hunting and I just don't feel like there is that this year. Sure this still a bit. Mostly people comparing dialogue and imagery to previous seasons.

I miss those days when a new Dharma station film was found or even the term "Dharma Initiative" was introduced.