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Original Message
"The U.S. won the War of 1812?"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 08-09-06 at 00:13 AM
No, you guys didn't.

Methinks a little history lesson is in order.



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"Tsk, tsk. Pepe's messing with the newbies again." Spidey, 3/30/05

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Messages in this discussion
"RE: The U.S. won the War of 1812?"
Posted by ohmyheck on 08-09-06 at 03:41 AM
If we didn't, who did?
"RE: The U.S. won the War of 1812?"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 08-09-06 at 10:02 AM
See below in post #2. Nobody really won the war. The Americans failed to capture Lower Canada (as Ontario is now called) -- indeed, they were pushed back by the British after Laura Secord overheard the Americans' plans and then traipsed through the forests at night to warn the British.

Oh, and the Brits burned the White House and the Capitol in 1814, but were forced back when they tried to sack Baltimore and New Orleans.

What I took issue with was with the way it was portrayed on the show that "The U.S. won the War of 1812." Nope, I don't think so.



A Tribe siggie
"Tsk, tsk. Pepe's messing with the newbies again." Spidey, 3/30/05

"RE: The U.S. won the War of 1812?"
Posted by qwertypie on 08-11-06 at 11:09 PM
I like Laura Secord chocolates.



Yes It's Vintage Tribephyl!

But I like Bernard Callebaut chocolates even better

"RE: The U.S. won the War of 1812?"
Posted by michel on 08-09-06 at 08:21 AM
From : http://www.historycentral.com/1812/

"The War of 1812 is one of the forgotten wars of the United States. The war lasted for over two years, and while it ended much like it started; in stalemate; it was in fact a war that once and for all confirmed American Independence. The offensive actions of the United States failed in every attempt to capture Canada. On the other hand, the British army was successfully stopped when it attempted to capture Baltimore and New Orleans."

Doesn't that mean Canada won?


"RE: The U.S. won the War of 1812?"
Posted by Snidget on 08-09-06 at 09:36 AM
Stalemate tends to imply no one really won, but then again no one really lost.


It's a tribe creation!

"RE: The U.S. won the War of 1812?"
Posted by michel on 08-09-06 at 10:00 AM
Yes but a USA win = No Canada

"RE: The U.S. won the War of 1812?"
Posted by Snidget on 08-09-06 at 10:21 AM
OTOH, that it wasn't USA = gone, either (I thought it wasn't so much just Canada, more the whole British Empire fighting through Canada, I'm sure England would have prefered that we were totally crushed or at least lost a lot of land, afterward everything was pretty much exactly the way it was before they started)
"RE: The U.S. won the War of 1812?"
Posted by PagongRatEater on 08-09-06 at 10:29 AM
One could argue that the US won by simply not losing. The British goal was to make us back into a colony and that didn't happen. If we had lost that war we would have ceased to exist as a nation, so it would seem fair to me to say that we beat the British - if not the Canadians.


But, the four of us had a great time.


"RE: The U.S. won the War of 1812?"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 08-09-06 at 10:44 AM
Ummm, you guys started the war in the first place. Declared war and attacked the British first but the U.S. did get one concession -- the British revoked the sovereignty violations against the U.S. two days before the start of the war.

If somebody STARTS a war and STARTS the attacks, but fail to capture anything, then I'd say that somebody certainly didn't WIN the war.

Not losing any ground other than to more strongly reaffirm its independence is a more accurate description of the outcome of the war.



A Tribe siggie
"Tsk, tsk. Pepe's messing with the newbies again." Spidey, 3/30/05

"Holy semicolon, Batman!"
Posted by udg on 08-13-06 at 06:55 PM
Usually; only comma's and, apostrophe's; get abused that badly!


Slice n' Dice's Sigpic Chop Shop 2004

"RE: The U.S. won the War of 1812?"
Posted by AZ_Leo on 08-11-06 at 10:02 PM
According to the cliche history is written by the winners. Since all the US history books used in US classrooms are written in the US and approved for use by US school boards, obviously we had to have been the side that won. You wouldn't want us to start cluttering up our history with the facts rather than propaganda, would you?


A tribephyl original

"RE: The U.S. won the War of 1812?"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 08-12-06 at 02:18 PM
Oh that's true... however, there's a reason why History Central said about it, "The War of 1812 is one of the forgotten wars of the United States."

Surely if it was a clear win for the U.S., there'd be a far bigger celebration and a holiday or something to commemorate it, given that it was against the mighty British, no?



A Tribe siggie
"Tsk, tsk. Pepe's messing with the newbies again." Spidey, 3/30/05

"RE: The U.S. won the War of 1812?"
Posted by AZ_Leo on 08-12-06 at 09:16 PM
What about Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture? He wrote that just for the US didn't he? Why else would we be playing it at 4th of July celebrations?

For the record, I do know that he wrote it about Russia's push back of Napoleon but I would be willing to bet that would come as a great shock to many Americans. After all, everything is all about us, isn't it?



A tribephyl original

"RE: The U.S. won the War of 1812?"
Posted by Jims02 on 08-12-06 at 00:18 AM
Ahem.

USA wins!


Hey, back early periods of US history a "non-loss" counts as a win. Right?
The show also tells us that the hunters are searching for treasure left behind by the founding fathers. So it's all flawed.

"RE: Just Wondering"
Posted by Dakota on 08-12-06 at 02:52 PM
If the US had gotten Ontario, would there still be poutine?

"RE: Just Answering"
Posted by michel on 08-12-06 at 03:02 PM
LAST EDITED ON 08-12-06 AT 03:06 PM (EST)

As a "Québécois", I have to defend the poutine even if I've never had one and say it was first created in Victoriaville,PQ. Ontario had nothing to do with it!

"RE: The U.S. won the War of 1812?"
Posted by lizardo99 on 08-12-06 at 00:43 AM
You know soon as I heard this statement on air, I wondered just how long it would take for some thin skinned dude watching up north to run his "We kicked your butt in the War of 1812" smack. From the time stamp it appears the answer is about 27 hours. Give it a rest; it was the British Empire. But since you guys still celebrate Queen Victoria's B-Day (and by extension "the Sovereign") maybe you still consider yoursleves part of Mother England! A word of advice: watch South Park The Movie to see what will happen next time you dare to cross the USA!!!!
"RE: The U.S. won the War of 1812?"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 08-12-06 at 02:13 PM
The problem, of course, is that I'd have to lower my standards significantly to watch some trash such as the South Park movie and go even lower to take a movie like that seriously.

FWIW, it was mostly Canadian soldiers that fought on the British side and turned back you guys.

I consider myself thankful to be from north of the border if it means people such as yourself are south of the border.



A Tribe siggie
"Tsk, tsk. Pepe's messing with the newbies again." Spidey, 3/30/05

"RE: The U.S. won the War of 1812?"
Posted by lizardo99 on 08-13-06 at 09:26 AM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A15638-2004Nov26.html
"Since we're off TH Topic, more history!"
Posted by michel on 08-12-06 at 07:12 PM
When did anyone claim "kicking butts." The people living in what was to become Canada mainly protected their homes. It wasn't just in Ontario or only British citizens. There were French-Canadians and native Americans also:

At Chateauguay (City in Québec) in 1813, Salaberry commanded a corps of 1700 Canadian militiamen including 250 Voltigeurs which forced 3000 American troops to retreat from the field, thus preventing a large-scale attack on Montréal and saving Lower Canada.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chateauguay

The Battle of Chateauguay was a battle of the War of 1812. On October 25, 1813, a force consisting almost entirely of French Canadians and Mohawks repulsed a much larger American force attempting to invade Canada.


"Locking... Off Topic"
Posted by IceCat on 08-13-06 at 07:41 PM
This thread has ceased to be about the show and more about conflicting history lessons. Locking as off topic.