I'm going to go through EnglProf's post point by point, and I should warn everyone not going to be very exciting reading.

>More than ever I think Bran & Nic are your winners....

<snip>

>I don't see what this has to do with anything at
>all and frankly, this is just plain ridiculous. The
>network's programming over the years has no impact or
>connection to this reality tv show.

Actually, on virtually all the other shows I've seen, I would agree with you - editing plays virtually no role, and whomever wins wins.

However, this time around, they've emphasized Brandon & Nicole's religious comments SO much that I'm starting to think there's a connection.

>Actually, I don't even get your point. Are you saying
>that they filmed this whole season, but only decided to
>show it because Brandon and Nikki won (thus appealing to
>a religious audience?) Are you saying the show somehow
>helped Brandon and Nikki win because otherwise the religious
>audience would be upset? Or are you saying that they
>are editing in all of Brandon and Nikki's comments because
>they turn out to be the winners and they know this will appeal
>to the religious audience?

Short answer: No. No. Yes.

Longer answer:

1) They were going to show this season regardless of who won, or what happened. The things that happened during the season influences the "slant" they put on things (editing).

2) I firmly believe the show and its producers are not biased in any way toward any team. If I didn't believe it, I would stop watching.

3) The other reason why WRP is putting in those comments by B&N is because this is who they are, which would mean they made lots and lots and lots more religious comments that DID NOT make it to the screen. It could have happened that way, but I'm guessing that the editors collected many (if not most) of their comments and stirred them into these episodes for a reason.

>Furthermore, you are grossly generalizing about the CBS
>audience. Joan is watched by a secular and non-secular
>audience alike. It is fantastically popular among
>people who aren't in the least religious. (Do you
>even watch Joan?) I, myself, love Joan, and am not
>at all religious. (In fact, I am turned off
>by the extent to which Brandon and Nikki discuss their
>religion).

First, I agree that B&N have talked about their religion a lot, and I too am getting weary of it.

Second, I can't say that I've ever watched "Joan of Arcadia", so I'll defer to you as far as its true themes and appeal.

But as for overgeneralizing, I don't see it. I said:

a) that CBS has had some shows with religious themes over the years,
b) some of the viewers of those shows also watch TAR, and
c) some of them are not likely to be happy if the most obviously religious team is eliminated.

I would say that all of those are safe statements, for whatever it's worth. CBS has a variety of shows, and each of those shows appeals to a multitude of groups - the mix is a little different for each one, but it's a mix for all of them, nevertheless.

>So your premise is flawed. If B and N win,
>it's not because of the CBS audience. *We* have
>nothing to do with who wins.

I agree with you here. Neither CBS nor its audience has anything to do with who wins.

BUT... how the winners and non-winners are slanted, that's in the hands of WRP. Who is paid by CBS. Who wants to appeal to as broad an audience as possible.

I've merely been postulating a theory here, and we will see in three weeks (or less) how much merit it has.

"This is realitybites and I approved this post."

I swore I was off this show and these boards after Shmirna bit the dust, but here I am to say that I totally agree with everything Reality Bites said, and more so! Except saying that editing plays no part. Editing is often a total giveaway of the outcome. In Survivor, although obviously outcome is known before airing begins, the editing is everything in determining who will be voted out each week.

If there is any reality show I have wondered about (in terms of producers influencing outcome) it is this one. Why in the world would they previously decide to schedule two non-elimination episodes in a row?

If I were really suspicious I would think that the producers didn't realize how popular Charla and Mirna would be with the viewing public, so they switched the non-elimination. I don't really think that happened, but I can't say I'm certain it didn't. And if the hapless twins had lost again, would they have not been eliminated again? Of course we'll never know. In past seasons, I have seen penalties assessed or not assessed that influenced the outcome in a big way and didn't seem fair.

On a different tangent, Brandon and Nicole are the latest example of someone/some group feeling that "God wants me/us to win. God is on our side" etc. And as a full-on churchy boy, I find this offensive. God doesn't "want" anybody to win anything, or lose anything. How demeaning it is for arrogant people in sports, television, politics or whatever to claim that God "wants" them to win more than the other team. To thank God for giving strength, or ask God to give strength, is one thing and what pretty much all of us who say we're Christian do, but to say that "I won because God wanted me to" is just wrong.

Bravo, toddE, for that last paragraph!!! I wish that I had been that articulate in making some of my comments in another thread.

Warning: Since you offered a critique of B&N, oh_sama might accuse you of Christian bashing and hating...

The Bible frowns on vanity. Hair grows back, and who knows Nicole may have looked as good as Demi Moore. Brandon needs to get rid of the sheep dog/blue lagoon look.

The trains in India are just factual. Why should there be any extra security? Certainly these racers have seen past series. Quit your whining Nicole, it's very bad on your image.
But then again modeling doesn't always show the ugly on the inside.

Now what really irks me is that they were in now hurry, and didn't think about the idea that it may have been a non-elimination leg. Even Mirna and Charla competed til the end "just in case". I wonder how far behind they are from the other racers now.

And I won't even start on the fact that a fast forward and a non elimination were in the same episode/leg. Not good TV.

I am so sick of the prayers and the cutesy crap from them. My hubby and I were about to vomit watching them last night. We are Christians and believe in the power of prayer.

However, they abuse this!!!
Examples: Pray for me that I find the scarab
Lord help her (on the train)
I can't think of anymore but I know there are several per episode. I try to ignore what they say because it sickens me.

Brandon is ugly in my opinion and may even look better without hair!!

Would I shave my head? No probably not.

UGH!

HP

The producers set up this fast forward in the hopes that Marshall and Lance would still be in the race and go for it. The only way to recreate the magic that was the Festers.

But how mean would it have been if Brandon/Nicole did actually shave off their heads and thereby hurt their modeling careers (they do seem to have their pictures on a lot of ads lately) -- only to find that they did it all for a non-elim leg.

LAST EDITED ON 09-01-04 AT 09:45 AM (EST)

They are just vain immature little twerps.

Did you hear ole Nic on her way to Dubai--There's like a, what do you call it, MOSQUE on every corner, it's like Starbuck's!!!

HELLO--you're in a foreign country and Mosques are places of worship-not overpriced coffee shops. I bet if you drive down Nic's hometown there's a Protestant church on every corner!!! UGH.

And on the train, I wish a bunch of people would have carried Nic off on another station before little "Lord Help Her" Brandon could save her!!!

And for them to be SO VAIN as to not even consider shaving their heads to get to the Pit Stop First! For a million dollars, hair grows back!!!! They can't possibly be that in demand!!!

I would have been in the chair faster than I could say:

"MAKE ME LOOK LIKE THAT SEXY POSTER FESTER!!!!"

Courtesy of the Amazing Slice & Dice Chop Shop 2004
**SMOOCHIES** to my fellow almost 36 yr. old Indian Trendsetter, FESTER

et change a word

Nicole pissed me off the most last night when she was griping about being stared at. HELLO!! I bet most ppl in Calcutta have never seen Americans and when she was bi**ching on the train. Did she not watch the past seasons where other racers got on crowded trains?? I hope this race was a huge wake-up call to Nicole about how lucky she is to have a "Starbucks" on every corner and to have to ride crowded trains every day. In short, I think Nicole is a spoiled brat and all the God talk needs to go. Pray when you have dying relative or when you need it most, Not when your whiny woman wont shut up or you cant find a lost scarab.

I am not in the least bit offended by their references to God or their obvious comfort with prayer. I consider myself a Christian yet I cuss, drink, smoke, fornicate, etc.. but I pray throughout the day, treat people with respect, value my family and friends, work hard in my community, express my gratitude and acknowledge the presence of God in all I see and do. Does that make me a hypocrite? I don't know. I think it makes me a person with a lot of growing to do and enough sense to know no one is perfect. I admire Nic and Brandon for knowing it is not "their will" and recognizing prayer should not be reserved for "when you have a dying relative or when you need it most." (Be thankful for not having a sick relative.)

While I would have appreciated the irony, I'm not certain how much it would have hurt their modeling careers. Brandon might actually get new or different kinds of jobs with a new look. Nichole might as well. The look would certainly make both of them distinctive.

I watched the episode with some friends. They were worried that Brandon and Nichole would not shave their heads because it was a ritual from another faith tradition and they might think they were bad Christians if they participated in such a ceremony (kinda like you're a bad Christian if you drink a shot of vodka). We all breathed a sigh of relief when they refused simply out of vanity.

My favorite line was 'The Lord wants us to be in this race'. Yes, with everything going on in this world-terrorism, starvation, homelessness, war,etc. the Lord is worried about who wins a reality television show.

I knew there was one that irratated me!!!! that I forgot. That was it. I thought the same thing. Now you have me vomiting my breakfast after I already lost my dinner.

Those 2 are the reason people are sick of church. But that is a whole other topic not to be dicussed here

HP

I just don't see why people are so down with Brandon and Nicole and the praying. If that's how they deal with stress and difficult situations,great that's thier business. It's better than acting like a fricking abusive psycho like Coin.

I don't think anyone has a problem with their being devout Christians - but they seem to have adopted a "divine right" attitude which is both arrogant and downright annoying.

Their vanity is especially disturbing given their apparent devoutness. Nicole was willing to slurp back a kilo of caviar (remember that fiasco?) but will stop short at cutting her hair. Maybe they both have a Samson-complex.

Nicole was willing to slurp back a kilo of caviar

Good point. Hey, at least they are consistent. Gluttony and vanity are both sins. So's hipocracy.

There's nothing wrong with prayers and praying but at some point you have to put a lid on it.
When Nicole was in the train and screamed at him that she was being pulled away, all that he had to say is:"Lord help her"
C'mon, they are both putting everything that is happening on the good Lord's back.
God is there to help you but what you do with the help he gives you is your own doing not God.
And if they are such Christians they should of stayed home, because it's very obvious that they are in love with themselves. Did you see Nicole when at the end that Indian woman put a rose petal in her hair, the first thing she did was take it off, and then she stroke her hair about 3 or 4 times to be sure that it wasn't there anymore...2 words..GROW UP!!! And if they believe in God so much then they should of known that even without hair "God" would of let them find work in the model profession. So I think they used the word God too often and they used it only when they are in trouble or when they see it fit. They both need to grown up.

Thanks for a balanced look at this, bdsmom. I didn't notice Nicole taking the rose petal out of her hair. My friends and I were too focused on Brandon questioning "Oh, I get paint too...?" We weren't certain if he was taken aback because he thought that ritual was for women only so it threatened his masculinity or if he was just nervous about being touched by someone from another faith tradition and perhaps taking part in a non-Christian ritual.
I haven't heard so much testifying on a reality show since the fourth season of Survivor when everybody on the island was bullied into participating in the prayer circles lest they alienate the evangelicals who might then vote against them. As for the divine intervention that kept Brandon and Nicole in the game, it seems quite possible. After all, Jesus did tell Adria to nominate Marvin and Will on Big Brother... Now that we've figured out how God and Jesus spend their spare time, I'm waiting to find out which reality show the Holy Spirit prefers to watch and influence...

I think Jesus would be a really awesome reality show spoiler.

And
>if they believe in God
>so much then they should
>of known that even without
>hair "God" would of let
>them find work in the
>model profession.
>
Bwhahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!

"And if they are such Christians they should of stayed home,
because it's very obvious that they are in love with
themselves. Did you see Nicole when at the end that Indian woman put a rose petal in her hair, the first thing she did was take it off, and then she stroke her hair about 3 or 4 times to be sure that it wasn't there anymore... 2 words..GROW UP!!!"

I just watched the whole show for the second time, and remembered your above comments just as these two arrived at the pit stop. B&N got their flower petals and face paint, then stood there smiling and talking to Phil about how relieved they were...for a WHILE... and THEN Nicole seemed to absent-mindedly brush her hair (twice), as if she felt something up there. The Defense rests.