What was the deal with those wrestling matches? With all due respect to Jason, no way could he beat Josh - he had no muscle tone and was easily outweighed. Even Avg. Joe Josh almost taking down Michael (did you see how juiced he is)-don't think it's possible. Don't remember the other pairings (besides the last one with Dante-also not very realistic, but he definitely had a weight edge.

• Mind over matter I guess,BlueLies, 11:24 AM, 07-13-05
• RE: bogus wrestling matches,Reeflex7, 01:15 PM, 07-13-05
• RE: bogus wrestling matches,mmm_link, 01:26 PM, 07-13-05
  • RE: bogus wrestling matches,mickeyvon, 03:20 PM, 07-13-05
• RE: bogus wrestling matches,RDIheath, 03:55 PM, 07-13-05
  • Yeah, the matches were 'real',tamarama, 04:53 PM, 07-13-05
• RE: bogus wrestling matches,LawSchool, 09:02 PM, 07-13-05
  • RE: bogus wrestling matches,Reeflex7, 12:07 PM, 07-14-05
  • RE: bogus wrestling matches,mickeyvon, 01:11 PM, 07-14-05
    • RE: bogus wrestling matches,LawSchool, 05:47 PM, 07-14-05
      • RE: bogus wrestling matches,mickeyvon, 08:00 AM, 07-15-05
      • RE: bogus wrestling matches,mmm_link, 08:34 AM, 07-15-05
        • RE: bogus wrestling matches,LawSchool, 05:43 PM, 07-15-05
          • RE: bogus wrestling matches,DonnaLynn, 11:56 AM, 07-16-05

It was probably just to see if working out their aggressions towards one another on the mat made any difference...

it didn't.

I feel the same way re: jason's match. Even if the Jason does manage to take him down, there's no way he pins him for 3 seconds. I have to think the guy let him win just because he felt sorry for him, or to score points with Anna, or maybe the producers asked him to throw the match to create drama. All the others I thought were legit.

Lets look at it the way it was: Two challenges that are won by the Hunks 100% of the time means the Joe's didn't have a prayer, unless they ran the IQ test they did in AJ2 instead of the wrestling match.

Who were the other match-ups? (Who went against whom?)

I am / was a wrestler. Jr high, High school, international (Greece) and then college and I can tell you that the doped up guys, unless they have wrestling experience are very beatable by a much smaller guy any day.
its all about leverage and balance not all about strength. Im TALL for my weight class wrestling guys that looked like fire plugs and could easily outbench me but I rarely lost.
The dante match was a FIX all the way. FIRST Dante got the take down , and the reversal and was never on his back long enough to record a pin by ANY stretch. he got rolled and immediately bridged and got the reversal. The ref has a lightning wistle and hand and should have pinned the BONEHEAD Dante was wrestling when he rolled as well. Dante won hands down on points alone just from the 90 sec they were on the mat.

>>unless they have wrestling experience are very beatable by a much smaller guy any day. its all about leverage and balance not all about strength<<

This is exactly what I was thinking. Wrestling is a skill, there is a technique...it's not just brute force. I too noticed they weren't going for a 3 sec pin.

PLUS, something I've noticed on Survivor in particular, that applies a little bit here...

There's a big difference between muscles/strength that you get in a gym and muscles/strength that you get from living life.

Compare Osten to Rupert.
Compare Ibrahim to Tom.

I think there's a coordination that comes from using your muscles in real life situations versus gaining mass by pumping a lever up & down.

Now I'm not saying that all of the Joes have the same kind of strength that Tom or Rupert have, but "most cut" doesn't always equal "strongest" or "most athletic." Some guys who do nothing but lift weights, tend bar, and pick-up women are completely uncoordinated.

>What was the deal with those
>wrestling matches? With all
>due respect to Jason, no
>way could he beat Josh
>- he had no muscle
>tone and was easily outweighed.
> Even Avg. Joe Josh
>almost taking down Michael
>(did you see how juiced
>he is)-don't think it's possible.
> Don't remember the other
>pairings (besides the last one
>with Dante-also not very realistic,
>but he definitely had a
>weight edge.

And clearly you don't know jack about wrestling. All of the wrestling matches were 100% legit. And yes I took down Josh. Josh doesn't have any wrestling experience, and when you don't know what you're doing, strength isn't that big a deal. As for the whole pinning and points thing - that wasn't the contest. It was just "first person to score a takedown." Josh didn't get out of the pin because I wasn't pinning him - at that point the match was over, he was trying to bridge to show that he wasn't down, and I was just waiting for them to blow the whistle.

I'll freely admit I don't know jack about wrestling. I must have missed the part where they explained the rules, because I assumed that you had to pin your guy for a couple seconds.

What I'm confused about now is why they let Dante and Carson roll around on the mat for as long as they did, since Dante had already taken him down. Shouldn't the match have been over then?

You took down Josh? Are you the real Jason? If so, good job.

LAST EDITED ON 07-14-05 AT 05:54 PM (EST)

Yes, I am the real Jason. I also beat a 6-4, 220 lb guy at sumo wrestling (it was a dorm activity thing). Why? Because I watch a crapload of sports, including sumo, including amateur wrestling, and I actually had a really good idea what I was doing. Believe it or not, I actually expected to win, assuming that Josh hadn't wrestled in school. And unlike some other segments (ahem), it's not like they could edit the result of the match to look like one side got slaughtered.

I'm not really sure why they let Dante and Carson roll around like that. We didn't actually know what the outcome was - we'd thought that Dante had won. But I guess they felt like Dante didn't really have control, and that Carson did. Then Carson claimed that Dante hit him while he was down on the ground and after the whistle blew, and that's why he was all pissed after it was over.

Hey Jason,
Thanks for responding-I really appreciate it. I apologize for sounding harsh and naive. I actually have an interest in amateur wrestling so I'm not totally ignorant. It's just that the way the show was edited, it looked like you had no clue/interest/experience in sports or wrestling, so going into a match with no knowledge, usually the stronger man would win. You did a great job both during the match and on the show. You're definitely the kind of guy I'd hang out with and want my sister to date. Sad to see you go (and unclear why). Good luck with everything especially the dating.

By the way, I agree with your call on the Dante match. He looked like he had the takedown and was then reversed, but by the rules you described, he was the winner.

How did they decide the matchups? (Was it solely weight based?)
How did Josh N. almost take down Mike?
Was it very staged or did it seem real? Were guys intimidated? I'd be interested to hear any other insights from the event and/or the show. Thanks.

I think the Producers didn't figure the Joes had a chance at wrestling, otherwise they would have had some sort of idiotic body admiration in the mirror contest instead. I was only partially watching but wasn't the Carson/Dante the deciding match? So in order to make the outcome for the hunks, they had to wait until Carson finally won?

LAST EDITED ON 07-15-05 AT 05:44 PM (EST)

Thanks for the kinder words, Mickeyvon. This was pretty much the highlight of the show for me, so you can imagine I wasn't too happy to see people claiming it was rigged. I have no idea how they decided the matchups, but it was clear that I was the lightest Joe and Josh, who certainly has a nice physique, wasn't near as built as the other guys, so I'm assuming that's why they put us together. And Dante - Carson was an obvious matchup. Not sure how they decided to match the other guys up.

Not sure how Josh almost took down Mike - it was definitely a surprise - but I don't think it looked as close in real life.

I can absolutely promise you that all of the wrestling was real. Some of the guys were pretty intimidated, others knew it was going to be a slaughter and were trying to laugh it off, I can never really tell what Nathan is thinking because he's always so chill, and then guys like Clay and I, both of whom are really competitive and used to surprising people with our athleticism, felt like we had a chance to win. I'm pretty sure that anything but bench pressing or arm wrestling and I'll be confident that I can win.

There were actually two winners - Nathan and I. Nathan beat Brad - Brad tried to slam him and Nate pretty much just sandwiched him. They enjoyed showing the hunks pound us more than they did, which is why Nathan's was probably left off, but I guess mine was just too big an upset to leave off. Dante and Carson really did go last, and by then, it was unwinnable for us.

It's funny what you said about the producers thinking it was unwinnable for us, because while I'm sure that's what they thought, some of the hunks started to freak out after I won my match. Carson could tell I had wrestled before just from how I handled myself, and he thought maybe we'd been training before they got there to make the hunks look bad.

On a side note, I love the fact that some of the AJ's are posting. I'm just wondering why none of the hunks are... Hmmm... Maybe none of them know how to read!!!

--Donna :~)