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Original Message
"Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by Krautboy on 04-06-05 at 00:49 AM
LAST EDITED ON 04-06-05 AT 03:31 PM (EST)


What is it that we won’t be shown? Was there injustice at the Fire-starting Challenge? Was it too close to call? Did they have to film the best two out of three, but only show us one? Is this why Bobby Jon was reported to be upset after his boot? We may never know, but it appears that those who have sources this season have gotten wind of a controversy that takes place at TC…which we may never see…

Here are a few of the cryptic clues on the subject from a few of those with reliable sources:


VolcanicGlassRegistered User(4/5/05 8:35 pm)Reply
Re: Just some spoilers...

There is nothing hidden that will not be exposed,
nothing concealed that will not be known and brought to light. Take heed, therefore, how you hear: to the man who has, more shall be given; and he who has not, will lose even the little he thinks he has.


quartzeyeMESS member(4/5/05 10:16 pm)Reply ezSupporter
Re: Just some spoilers...

See the truth, it won't be shown
Double fire starts favors one
Smoke and mirrors of deception
Will send the true victor home
Instead of two out of three,
we'll only see one,a subjective decision,
Bye, bye Bobby Jon


WezzieMESS member(4/5/05 10:26 pm)Reply ezSupporter
Re: Just some spoilers...

It's My Show (It's My Life)by the SEGanimals

Baby (baby)
Remember (remember)
It's my show and I'll do what I want
It's my beach and I'll film what I want
Build me a fire and I'll videotape it
But only if you're really fine.


Trixiego
MESS Moderator
(4/6/05 6:10 am)
Reply
ezSupporter

Re: Just some spoilers...

Will Bobby Jon
feel he's wronged?
The question unknown
is will it be shown?

Bobby's going home, but it appears we will never get to see what really happened...



Krautboy

Table of contents
Messages in this discussion
"Sigh..."
Posted by LookeeLoo on 04-06-05 at 01:09 AM
Yes, most cryptic...

My take on the criptic...:

VG implies an error in the live calling of the IC or perhaps personal IC between Steph and BJ. BJ is called the winner, but is later called the loser.

quartzeye and Wezzie imply Bobby Jon is sent home after a 2 out of 3 competition with "someone", but we are not shown the whole competition, and BJ was the actual winner but got sent home...

3 very reliable sources, making very criptic innuendos.

hmmm....

LookeeLoo

Another Dicey Original 2004

"RE: Sigh..."
Posted by SFGW on 04-06-05 at 01:27 AM
Whether it's 2 out of 3. Or just a do-over when BJ wins the 1st time and Jeff makes them do it again, then the second time Stephanie wins.

If this happend, according to the hints, it still might not be shown. It all depends on whether CBS will show it or not.

Remember, Jeff has made bad Judgement calls before. So it wouldn't be the 1st time if something like this happens.

"RE: Sigh..."
Posted by emydi on 04-06-05 at 11:15 AM
Yeah, but this is a whopper of a "bad judgment call" if Jiffy says it's BJ and then no, sorry, it's not...I think he would have reason to biotch...like Tom and Lex did in S3 after the Fallen Comrades IC that Mama Kim won...maybe they'll give him 2nd place istead of 10th place cash....


I know I would biotch...but that's just me

"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by Brownroach on 04-06-05 at 10:22 AM
Is this why Bobby Jon was reported to be upset after his boot?

Krautboy, have you actually heard or read anything to this effect? Several people mentioned that they've "seen this somewhere" but the source has never been cited.



Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.

"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by Krautboy on 04-06-05 at 11:19 AM
BR: I haven't ever seen the original source, and now that you mention it, didn't you ask someone else here at SBlows the same question when they originally mentioned it? That's probably what I'm remembering...

I did hear that "Liz kick's butt in the challenges"...


Krautboy

"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by Devious Weasel on 04-06-05 at 11:27 AM
The same comment was made about Jeff before the season started, which led many of us to believe he didn't get picked for a team.


"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by knuckles487 on 04-06-05 at 11:48 AM
I mentioned that last week but not sure if I was the first one here to do so. And of course, since I opened my mouth I haven't been able to find the exact article I had read, but I have been able to find this. It's not exactly confirmation but at least it shows I wasn't crazy in bringing the subject up.


http://www.survivorfever.net/s10_bootsheet.html


If you scroll down to the first box, you will see all this about BJ. This has been here for some time, and notice that the same thing was said that I said. They attribute it to a confidential email, but the article I originally seen it in sure wasn't confidential. lol I just wish I could find the dang thing now.


Bobby Drinkard

For Boot
- No weight loss (confidential email)
- Upset about what happened to him on show (confidential email)
- Pre-jury (Mersaydeez poster at SurvivorSucks <http://p085.ezboard.com/fsurvivorsucksfrm2.showMessage?topicID=18326.topic>;)
- High facetime
- Returned from Australia at game end (indicates pre-jury travel) (news article source)

Against Boot
- Hard worker in camp

Vulnerability : 'Very Vulnerable'


I hope this can be of a little use to some of you.

"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by Brownroach on 04-06-05 at 11:54 AM
Thanks, knuckles! I think you were the first person I saw mention this. I had never seen the item on Fever (I didn't even know they did a boot sheet), so it's good to know there really was a "spoiler" about this.


Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.

"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by knuckles487 on 04-06-05 at 12:03 PM
You're welcome. Now if I can just find the picture I seen of 2 people during a fire challenge, I will be all set. lol It looked more like a bonfire type set-up than the usual contraption they use on survivor. Also, it was taking place during daylight, which to me would rule out doing it at the TC. This was back when I first started looking at these boards a few weeks ago and didn't realize that it was important to write all this stuff down. I know better now and have been looking like mad for it.
"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by toddE on 04-06-05 at 12:27 PM
OK, I am sure this is a dumb question that I am asking without having read enough other threads, but wouldn't the simplest explanation be that there is a merge and BJ and Steph are fighting for individual immunity, which Steph wins?

I realize that voids the "one night alone" spoiler, which I assume is why everyone figures there is no merge?


"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by Devious Weasel on 04-06-05 at 12:46 PM
All the photographic evidence, and the promo voiceovers, focus on a tribal competition, not an individual. (For instance, the Immunity Idol stool is pictured in the challenge pictures. Bobby Jon is standing by what appears to be two puzzle tables with the tribal colors. We see a picture of Bobby Jon and Steph walking back wet and dejected.)


"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by emydi on 04-06-05 at 12:28 PM
ok, YOU SAW A PICTURE OF this fire challenge??? Where was it on another spoiler board? are you sure it was a picture of BJ and Steph during this competition? I find it odd that a picture like that would be out there and it hasn't surfaced on any of the boards yet...

This post not meant to be an attack on you NYUKnuckles ...I'm just trying to figure this out

If it is during the day, maybe they determine there who gets to vote at TC...and Steph wins (I guess 2 out of 3 ) and Bj's torch is snuffed...I stil don't think that they would forego TC unless someone quit...


"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by Brownroach on 04-06-05 at 02:38 PM
Knuckles, I don't think this is what you are referring to, but there are some caps of BJ in front of a flame at Phoenix:

http://resources.survivorphoenix.com/graphics/gallery/S10E08short10B/S10E08shortC35

I wonder if these could be from the challenge.


Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.

"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by Devious Weasel on 04-06-05 at 02:46 PM
Interesting that the entire promo seems to be Steph vs. Bobby Jon.


"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by knuckles487 on 04-06-05 at 03:28 PM
Nope, seen that one a little while ago in my frantic search trying to prove my sanity. lol That one COULD be from the challenge I suppose, but it looks more like BJ sitting in front of the campfire to me. I don't know.

The one I seen showed both players, and both fires. Steph and her fire were in the foreground, and the other person and his fire were in the background. The back portion (I guess you would call it) of the pic was fairly blurry because the lens was focused on the action closer to the camera. I'm assuming that is the main reason the other person wasn't easily identifiable, and only referred to as Ibe/BJ. Lots of difference in the two of them to me, but you really couldn't distinguish which it was because of the focus. The fires themselves, and maybe film crew lighting could have given the impression of daytime (looked like late afternoon or early evening) but it was definitely outdoors.

Emy, I know that isn't an attack on me. With no proof, I would doubt me too. As a matter of fact, I already AM doubting me and I SEEN the darn thing. lmao I swear it on Twilas sons life. It was when I first started looking at these boards and just kinda figured that if I was seeing it, then it must be common knowledge. Now, back to my quest for that holy grail.

One thing though, what's that NYU in front of my name???? lol

"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by emydi on 04-06-05 at 04:07 PM
Well, Curly , if you read my SOTS Last week, you'd know

I even gave you a shout out in it...it's probably on page 2 by now....


(NYU)Knuckleheads...Tom called him Ian and Gregg that....and I just added to it...

"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by emydi on 04-06-05 at 11:42 AM
I know Knuckles said he/she saw it in an article, but couldn't find it after BR asked for the link...

But I don't know, I'd be upset when I got voted out no matter what happened (KT, Scar, OKJohn, etc. can vouch for me on this ) now whether BJ was quoted as saying he was treated unfairly (like Tom and Lex in S3), then that would be something...



What a world, what a world....

"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by Seraphaem on 04-06-05 at 12:42 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-06-05 AT 12:43 PM (EST)

So much was said and sent.

S.

"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by emydi on 04-06-05 at 01:06 PM
Ok, what does that mean, S?


If you tell me, I'll make you one of my flying monkeys

"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by Devious Weasel on 04-06-05 at 01:12 PM
I think it means that many emails claiming knowledge of Bobby Jon's fate were sent to many spoilers that were, in fact, not actually sent by people who actually had knowledge of Bobby Jon's fate.


"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by emydi on 04-06-05 at 01:18 PM
Ok, I thought maybe S knows what was really said...


Ok, Dweeze you can be one of my flying ferrets...I'll need to sew some wings on you though

"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by Seraphaem on 04-06-05 at 01:34 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-06-05 AT 01:34 PM (EST)

To this day some still rely on portions of the GinaS spolier even though it was outted a long time ago. Information (be it true or false) can remain in one's mind like old trivia, and when an event triggers said memory it is called into use and narrowly focused.

There is much "weight" to this theory. ;)

S.

"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by Flowerpower on 04-06-05 at 03:14 PM
I just wanted to go on record as saying that the source I had never once mentioned any hard feelings whatsoever on BJ's part. Take that for what it's worth...

"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by Krautboy on 04-06-05 at 03:14 PM
Sera, are you saying that Liz doesn't actually kick butt in the challenges!?!?


Krautboy

"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by Wezzie on 04-06-05 at 03:13 PM
You can delete the 'edited by Wezzie'. I just misspelled SEGanimals. I'd written SEGamimals.

..AND you missed THIS!!! The plot thickens!

Trixiego
MESS Moderator
(4/6/05 6:10 am)
Reply
ezSupporter

Re: Just some spoilers...

Will Bobby Jon
feel he's wronged?

The question unknown
is will it be shown?

"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by Seraphaem on 04-06-05 at 03:47 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-06-05 AT 03:48 PM (EST)

If i had to hazard a guess (a loose guess, mind you) I'd swear these cryptic posts point to some sort of screw-up during the fire competition, whereas BJ should've been the rightful winner yet Stephanie wins via poor judging thanks to Probst.

S.

"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by Wezzie on 04-06-05 at 04:38 PM
You're pretty good at this, Seraphaem. lol!

It doesn't affect JTS or the CBS Fantasy Game.

"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by Seraphaem on 04-06-05 at 04:51 PM
Such a compliment from a lovely woman makes me blush. Thank you. love.

S.

"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by Wezzie on 04-07-05 at 11:21 PM
Well, that sucked. Poor kid.
"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by Round Robin on 04-07-05 at 11:34 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-07-05 AT 11:36 PM (EST)

No controversy there, apparently. BJ just got his a$$ kicked.

"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by Seraphaem on 04-07-05 at 11:37 PM
In all, it was an entertaining show tonight. I love how throughout the episode we see BJ focused on fire only to have it bite him in the rump at the end.

Upwards on onwards to next week.

Seraphaem

"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by Wezzie on 04-07-05 at 11:45 PM
Apparently an agreement was reached.

"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by Brownroach on 04-08-05 at 10:45 AM
I thought the whole TC segment was strange. Granted it was only two people but it seemed oddly truncated. And there was NO SUSPENSE WHATSOEVER edited into the fire-starting, it was over in like 2 seconds. It certainly looked like Stephenie won (*from what we saw*?) but there was something odd about the whole thing.


Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.

"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by Corvis on 04-08-05 at 11:07 AM
Someone should ask him if there was more than one fire starting competition on Survivor Live. I bet he'll freeze up if he isn't supposed to talk about it.
"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by Pookie13 on 04-08-05 at 02:58 PM
I thought so too - it was so abrupt.
"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by Booted on 04-08-05 at 03:43 PM
BR:

The thing that struck me was that Steph put her big wood down first and the coconut on top. It burned fast but was right at the torch, BJ started at the bottom...

Boot Ed

"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by Brownroach on 04-08-05 at 03:59 PM
What struck me was that they were given 25 matches apiece. I remember the A$$ challenge where they were given 10 (I think?) matches to help get their outdoor fires going and they all used them up. It seems to me that there wasn't a great danger of them running out of matches in this challenge.


Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.

"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by LionChow on 04-08-05 at 04:08 PM
Maybe they just looked at the situation and said...

"Hey, this is Ulong we're talking about here. Better give em more matches just in case they mess this challenge up, too."



"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by montanagirl on 04-08-05 at 04:53 PM
Steph making a platform with the kindling for her coconut fuzz fire was brilliant. It positioned her whole fire higher to begin with. I wonder if she did this on purpose??

This photo struck me as curious...I don't recall this shot in the episode last night at all...could this have been one of the 'aborted attempts' at this challange?

Also - last night I saw BJ with the matches in his mouth, but I never actually saw him opening the match container...hmmmm.


-montanagirl

"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by Brownroach on 04-08-05 at 04:57 PM
We didn't see this shot last night. And there are no fires in the drums, only the torches are burning. Hmm, what is this?


Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.

"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by littletown on 04-08-05 at 06:23 PM
i dunno if this helps, but this morning on the early show bobby jon said he lost fair and square.
"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by Wezzie on 04-08-05 at 06:43 PM
Why give them matches at all? Why not flint? That's what they'd been using at camp.

BJ was the firemaker of Ulong. He would have had an advantage if they'd chosen flint.

"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 04-08-05 at 08:14 PM
... which is why they leveled the playing field by using something that both Steph and BJ haven't used thus far. They knew that using flints would likely have given BJ a huge advantage in this competition.



Scratch and sniff
"Tsk, tsk. Pepe's messing with the newbies again." Spidey, 3/30/05

"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by zazzy on 04-08-05 at 08:56 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-08-05 AT 09:20 PM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 04-08-05 AT 09:09 PM (EST)

So much for reality tv. No fire in the drums says something hinky is going on versus what was shown us last night. Steph's drum has a few pieces of kindling on it; BJ's is bare.

At first I thought it may be the difference in the camera angle but Steph was not sitting cross legged last night in the challenge and she is sitting cross legged in the picture.

Maybe they offered Bobby some industry contacts or modeling opportunities.

"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by braveheart on 04-08-05 at 09:06 PM
Plus the editing seemed wonky. Did anyone notice Steph blowing on her fire and the fire was getting bigger...the editing showed BJ looking over at Steph as she blew...clearly winning, but then BJ didn't blow at all...it was like he was just waiting to lose.


Braveheart

"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by Wezzie on 04-08-05 at 09:52 PM
Good point, Pepe. I hadn't thought of that.

In the contract it says that SEG can do whatever they want and the survivors aren't supposed to talk about it. BJ went on vacation rather than to Koror, but in the long run, he'll benefit from his time on the show.

Stephanie's a good kid, too. She put her all into the challenges. She'll go to Koror and face new dynamics. This is her biggest challenge.

There might be another firestarting challenge in a future episode. I'm checking on it.

"What happened to our caveman?"
Posted by Debberz13 on 04-09-05 at 08:10 AM
I know this isn't a spoiler but I just had to post...

Cat what did they do to your sexy caveman? If this is what he looks like cleaned up then its no wonder he isn't getting acting/modeling jobs.

Hint to BJ: The caveman look is good for you go with it.

"RE: What happened to our caveman?"
Posted by volsfan on 04-09-05 at 08:45 AM
If this is what he looks like cleaned up then its no wonder he isn't getting acting/modeling jobs.

What do you mean? This is a very attractive young man!

"RE: What happened to our caveman?"
Posted by biancaxxx on 04-09-05 at 08:52 AM
I think he looks gorgeous both ways. More sexy though with some growth.
"RE: What happened to our caveman?"
Posted by Flowerpower on 04-11-05 at 03:28 PM
I think BJ is a beautiful young man, and his smile is dazzling! He could do extremely well in the modeling field!

FP

"*cough-cough*"
Posted by IceCat on 04-09-05 at 09:19 AM
"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by knuckles487 on 04-09-05 at 10:51 AM
Definitely something was amiss here. I kept watching and rewatching the show but couldn't think of what it was. Finally it hit me, both torches burning, fire in the barrels, and then a shot of JP declaring Steph the winner. Then back to Steph and BJ, and JP telling him to grab his torch and Steph to come over and take a seat. But wait, torches both burning, but NO fire in either barrel. It was just there seconds before, but now gone. Kindling laid out all nice and pretty, but no fire. Not even a sign fire had ever been there. What the heck happened to it? Something screwy happened.
"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by kary1371 on 04-11-05 at 02:33 PM
ok now I have to watch the show again in slow motion!
"Tribal council isn't shot..."
Posted by IceCat on 04-11-05 at 04:47 PM
... in one continuous shot.

Nothing on the show is.

There are stops and starts for retakes, shot blocking, etc.

"RE: Tribal council isn't shot..."
Posted by Brownroach on 04-11-05 at 05:02 PM
I was thinking that maybe for some reason they decided to reshoot the part where Stephenie got up to go back to her seat and BJ went to get his torch. Maybe Jeff Probst flubbed some of his comments, or the crew thought the footage didn't look good, something like that.

Maybe by that time the drum fires and the torches had been extinguished, and so when Stephenie and Bobby Jon sat down again, they just relit the torches but didn't bother starting up the drum fires.


Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.

"RE: Tribal council isn't shot..."
Posted by DRONES on 04-11-05 at 10:41 PM
Steph does not have the look on her face of someone who just won. BJ and her look like they are listening to instructions or something. Steph is sitting with her legs crossed and up on her seat. She looks comfortable in that position and BJ is kind of hunched over with a blank stare on his face. This is indeed a very odd picture.

DRONES

"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by biancaxxx on 04-11-05 at 11:02 PM
I asked my source about this, and I found out that it wasn't a best 2 out of 3 or anything, they just had to go over the footage again to see who really won. BJ is mad at the producers right now, and believes that it was rigged. However, I don't think CBS or the people who watch over CBS to make sure that it's not biased, would allow for that to happen.
"Devil's advocate"
Posted by Brownroach on 04-12-05 at 10:48 AM
But...given the turn of events last week, who would the producers have preferred to see continue in the game?

Ian and Tom were talking about a final 4 alliance with Stephenie. For all we know this is not the first time they mentioned it. Perhaps it was felt that Stephenie continuing on would provide more of a hook for the audience since she had a pre-ordained shot at winning -- she would be someone to root for after the total destrucion of Ulong.

On the other hand, had Bobby Jon proceeded ahead, he probably would have been booted immediately or as soon as he lost immunity. Getting rid of him right away may have even been discussed at Koror but not shown.

Not saying the contest was rigged, but I could see why they might rig it in favor of Stephenie if they wanted to.


Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.

"RE: Hidden Controversy at Tribal Council?"
Posted by Devious Weasel on 04-12-05 at 11:08 AM
So maybe Probst called it for Bobby Jon, someone else watching (cameraman, observer, someone) thought it was Steph, and then they reviewed the footage and discovered it was indeed Steph.


"Nothing amiss"
Posted by Q on 04-12-05 at 11:30 AM
I read through this whole thread and watched the episode over and over and look at the screencaps, etc.

I think the board is really streching on this one. I don't think there is a conspiracy here. I don't think there was a mis-call, I don't think they would give out modelling contracts in exchange for botching a challenge.

I just think the way this was handled is what it is. Two people in a close race to decide who goes. I don't think the winner or the loser will be happy. The loser goes home without being voted off, and the winner is a lone person going home to an empty beach in an empty boat.

Even with the editing and cutting, I don't think this was rigged or done over, etc. And as to the barrels not being on fire, as in past challenges like this, the item to be lit (fuse, etc.) is usually covered in an accelerant, so it lights as soon as it is in contact with fire. So the fact that the torches are lit and the barrel fires are now out, is just that. The wood has gone out, but the torches are burning because they are very flamable.

IMO, this is a non-issue.


It is astonishing how foolish humans can be in groups, especially when they follow their leaders without question - States: The Bene Gesserit View. All States Are an Abstraction.