LOL, Ginger! Loved your comment about Sue. She does look the same! I'd be a bit p.o.'d if I were her, but I guess she didn't pay for it anyway.

I was surprised that all the people who made it to the final four didn't do very well in their first seasons. Although, it does make some sense that the underdog tribe (Chapera with no actual winners from any season) did the best overall. They hadn't tasted the sweet victory that some of the others had and I think it made them work harder.

I was surprised at Lex. I actually liked him in Africa. He sucked in All Stars. I think he's an idiot now, whereas at the start I was rooting for him to go farther.

I am surprised that Jerri is still so hated. I guess she wasn't on long enough to show a different side, but I thought she was doing better this time around. Remember, she was the only Sabogan who thought Rupert's shelter idea was a truly bad one. I think the producers paid him to make that stupid shelter-anyone could figure out that underground structures on the beach are the WORST idea ever!

Peace

You bet! Richard - I was surprised he lasted as long as he did as well, and completely agree he gets kudos for that.

And Sue - LOL - TOO TRUE! (Plus any slight improvment seems to fade even more as soon as she starts talking!)

>1) The 3 worst selections for
>the All star game were
>Amber, Jenna L and Shi
>Ann - I think just
>about all of you would
>have agreed with that before
>the game began. However,
>they finished 1st, 3rd and
>6th respectively. Each
>of them landed up being
>the last person standing from
>their original tribe. Both
>Amber and ShiAnn win important
>Immunity challenges when their very
>survival in the game was
>on the line. Amber
>even wins the whole thing

.....but here you hit on the fatal flaw in the game of Survivor, that being that it is a game that rewards the weak and punishes the strong....which is in direct contrast to the symbolic point of the contest, that being a microcosim of Darwin's "Natural Selection" theory.

Because this game rewards weak players it is no surprise that the three least deserving allstars did so well since they were teamed up with people who were more physically dominating and had stronger personalitities.

But, from day one I said the biggest mistake was the casting of Rudy. Its one thing to have Rudy in an 8 member tribe, but in a tribe of 6 with only 3 males there was no way to hide his inferior physical condition....and that is the reason for the early demise of Saboga. It was unfair to the rest of Saboga that they were essentially playing with one less male than the other tribes.

Additionally, I said from day one that MB screwed up by spreading out the winners. He should've had the winners all on one tribe so they could hide their collective "weak gazelle" status in this game by hiding out in the "strength in numbers" collective.

>Do any of you have any
>other unexpected surprises from what
>you expected to happen after
>you heard who the 18
>all stars were going to
>be?

Not really. I'm not suprised with the people who did well in the game, nor am I even slightly surpised that Chapera dominated early. Look at it this way, there were quite a few people in this game who didn't really have the heart or desire for it this go around. Namely, Rich, Colby, Ethan, Tina, JennaM, Jerri. Notice how they all have one thing in common, none of them were on Chapera. It made perfect sense then that Chapera would dominate the challenges since they had the most players who actually cared about winning the game. Coming into this game you could argue that no two people had more to prove this time around than RobM and Amber.....RobM didn't even make the jury and Amber was regarded as the dumbest player ever to make the jury. ShiA didn't make the jury either, but at least she can claim she got screwed by an unforseen twist.

RobM came into this game with a huge chip on his shoulder and was hugely motivated to not only win the game, but show America that he was tougher than Colby and Ethan in the process. And I think he accomplished what he set out for.

>
>.....but here you hit on the
>fatal flaw in the game
>of Survivor, that being that
>it is a game that
>rewards the weak and punishes
>the strong....which is in direct
>contrast to the symbolic point
>of the contest, that being
>a microcosim of Darwin's "Natural
>Selection" theory.
>
>Because this game rewards weak players
>it is no surprise that
>the three least deserving allstars
>did so well since they
>were teamed up with people
>who were more physically dominating
>and had stronger personalitities.
>
>But, from day one I said
>the biggest mistake was the
>casting of Rudy. Its
>one thing to have Rudy
>in an 8 member tribe,
>but in a tribe of
>6 with only 3 males
>there was no way to
>hide his inferior physical condition....and
>that is the reason for
>the early demise of Saboga.
> It was unfair to
>the rest of Saboga that
>they were essentially playing with
>one less male than the
>other tribes.
>
I don't understand your argument. First you say that the game rewards the weak and punishes the strong and that is why Amber, Jenna and Shi Ann did well. Then you say that the biggest mistake of Survivor All stars was the selection of Rudy because he is so weak. If being weak is a plus, then it should have been a big plus for Rudy. Obviously it wasn't because he was voted out in 6 days.

Being small and weak is generally a huge disadvantage to a person before the merge and I was surprised that neither Jenna, Shi Ann nor Amber was not voted out prior to the merge

>I don't understand your argument.
>First you say that the
>game rewards the weak and
>punishes the strong and that
>is why Amber, Jenna and
>Shi Ann did well.
>Then you say that the
>biggest mistake of Survivor All
>stars was the selection of
>Rudy because he is so
>weak. If being weak
>is a plus, then it
>should have been a big
>plus for Rudy. Obviously
>it wasn't because he was
>voted out in 6 days.
>
>
>Being small and weak is generally
>a huge disadvantage to a
>person before the merge and
>I was surprised that neither
>Jenna, Shi Ann nor Amber
>was not voted out prior
>to the merge

....if you can survive the first couple of tribal councils then being weak becomes a huge advantage in this game. But, by being weak I am also talking about weak personalities such as Amber's, not just physical strength.

Amber may not have been the strongest person on her tribe, but she wasn't outwardly physically weak to the point where she hurt her tribe ala Rudy, plus she was able to hide in the background while bigger personalities such as Sue, RobC and Alicia put targets on their backs.

As for Jenna she was able to hide behind an even weaker tribe member in Rudy + a big target in previous winner Tina. And ShiAnn was lucky that she was on Lex's tribe and therefore benefitted from Lex's pre-season cheating attempts to rig the game the whole way through.

Usually, in this game we are dealing with 8 member tribes with at least a couple of weak members. One usually gets the boot early letting the other coast through to the end.

Therefore, when I saw the cast list and tribe breakdown I wasn't at all suprised that Amber, Jenna and Shi did well, since there were other obvious targets on their tribes to take the pre-merge heat. Both SHi and Jenna had 2 previous winners on their tribe while Amber had huge target RobC and idiots Sue and Alicia. That allowed them enough space to avoid the early boot and once they avoided the early boot it was just another case of weak people coasting to the end.

<<.....but here you hit on the fatal flaw in the game of Survivor, that being that it is a game that rewards the weak and punishes the strong....which is in direct contrast to the symbolic point of the contest, that being a microcosim of Darwin's "Natural Selection" theory.>>

Darwin's Natural Selection is not that the "strong survivor" but it is "that which is most adaptable" survives. And while the weak tend to be rewarded, Survivor winners can be physically strong. Ethan was much stronger than MamaKim and post-diarrhea Lex. And Brian took the weakest tribemates into F4 with him.

It is interesting that now that Amber has won, the Female/Male winner ration is now 5-3 in favor of the women. And of those women, most (if not all) of them were weak and poor challenge contenders.

<<Additionally, I said from day one that MB screwed up by spreading out the winners. He should've had the winners all on one tribe so they could hide their collective "weak gazelle" status in this game by hiding out in the "strength in numbers" collective.>>

Amen, brother! That was a MAJOR flaw in how this game was mapped out. Keep the same challenges and twists, even. Just keep the winners and near winners together. Take Shii Ann and maybe Lex or Kathy off of Mogo Mogo and replace them with Tina and Ethan. Even if the Mogos become the team to beat, at least they don't keep getting picked off so fast.

<<It made perfect sense then that Chapera would dominate the challenges since they had the most players who actually cared about winning the game. Coming into this game you could argue that no two people had more to prove this time around than RobM and Amber.....RobM didn't even make the jury and Amber was regarded as the dumbest player ever to make the jury. ShiA didn't make the jury either, but at least she can claim she got screwed by an unforseen twist.>>

Chapera (and Shii Ann) definitely had the most to prove. And Shii definitely would have gotten farther had there not been a fake merge. She definitely would have made F6, maybe pulled out an immunity when she needed it. She may have even gotten Ted, Helen, and Jan to open their eyes. Then again, she couldn't get Alicia, Tom, Rupert, and Jenna to open their eyes either. Ok, so she's stuck at F6 in Thailand now.

Rob was a dumb player in S4. He was a big mouth then, and he's a big mouth now. Only difference is that Rotu was a stronger tribe than Mogo Mogo. Rotu wouldn't shoot itself in the foot like the Mogos did. And that's why Rob lasted longer: because his tribe lasted longer. Plus as I already stated, Rob was the undisputed leader of a tribe of followers; they'd be too lost without Rob.

Amber definitely had something to prove, and she proved it. Good job, Amber!

I just want to say that I really liked the way you pointed out the difference between strength and adaptability. It irks me to no end to see post after post saying that only the strong guys deserve to do well. If that is the case, why bother casting anyone except strong guys? I also like the way you point out that both strong-challenge and weak-challenge players have done well. And now that the S1 DVD is out, I must review because I don't really remember Rich as a strong-challenge player. That season, the strong-challenge player (KellyW) was female, and didn't win (but did do quite well).

Additionally, I said from day one that MB screwed up by
spreading out the winners. He should've had the winners
all on one tribe so they could hide their collective
"weak gazelle" status in this game by hiding out in
the "strength in numbers" collective.

He should have based the teams on how each one was voted in his/her respective season with the "winners" each having a built in F2 alliance

Mogo Mogo

Ethan/Jenna M (both winners and dating)
Rich/Rudy (1st and 3rd S1 alliance)
Tina/Colby (1st and 2nd S2 alliance)

Saboga (the almost wons)

Lex-3
Kathy-3
Rob C-3
Tom-4
Sue-4
Amber-6

Chapera

Rupert 8
Jenna 8
Jerri 8
Alicia 9
Shii 10
Rob M 10

I know my could have beee MM has 4 men and Chap has 2 but 1 was Rudy and Rob M/Rupert's strength could have made up for it.

Would have been much more interesting

emydi

I like this distribution, emydi. I actually think the gender imbalances would have been cool. Cesterweenie being on Saboga also neutralizes the lack of a third male in Chapera. And your Mogo Mogo probably would have had the same dynamic as the real Mogo Mogo did, meaning one of the alpha males would likely go early.