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Original Message
"Chivalry and the Double Dare Duh"
Posted by iltarion on 03-03-12 at 08:13 AM

CHIVALRY: to be or not to be. That is the question repeatedly raised throughout the first 3 episodes.

So, boys and girls, what have we learned?

Well, as a man, I'd say even for being already painted as irrelevant within the game, the men have been edited pretty well.

From Colton and Jonas offering that the women rough out the storm in the men's shelter to Leif giving Monica and Kat an ember for nothing. Clearly, chivalry is NOT dead.

In fact, I find it not surprising but telling that online I've seen women who have complained that the men have not been chivalrous enough. Really? Of course, what is almost comical about these expectations of the guys within the game is that the women are burdened with no expectations at all.

In short, the women expect chivalry, but they don't expect that they will actually be expected to APPRECIATE it.

Basically, what we have here is that same most modern and worldwide of problems: the expectation of getting something for nothing.

The women want to ruthlessly play the game, but they look down at the men for wanting the same.

As if starting with a 10-8 deficit and having to beat women at challenges that favor them wasn't enough. No, the men are expected to play the game with chivalry like a piano strapped to their back.

Chivalry was about treating women the way they DESERVED to be treated. Matt was right. In that sense he was the most chivalrous of all the men. He treated the women the way they DESERVED to be treated. And for that, he's an A-hole.

Don't blame me. I'm just the messenger.

JP has taken his lumps for taking his time away from the game, but his last two TCs have been classics. He ripped the best line from the cast last week with his exclamation that talking to the women was like "talking to 6th graders." Only to repeat the feat this week with his flaying of Colton, "You say 'duh' and I turn that around and say double dare duh right back at you." Hilarious in a Fast Times at Ridgemont High type of way.



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Messages in this discussion
"RE: Chivalry and the Double Dare Duh"
Posted by Aruba on 03-03-12 at 09:05 AM
Outstanding Post!

I've got to start calling you "The Carpenter" for your ability to "hit the nail right on the head."


"Basically, what we have here is that same most modern and worldwide of problems: the expectation of getting something for nothing."

Especially prevelant with gorgeous women...of course they would not agree with the "something for nothing" notion...they feel they ARE giving something--the mere appearance of their attractiveness.


"...to repeat the feat this week with his flaying of Colton, "You say 'duh' and I turn that around and say double dare duh right back at you." Hilarious in a Fast Times at Ridgemont High type of way."

It would have been MORE hilarious, in a Christmas Story type of way, if Jeff created a slight breach of etiquette and went right for the TRIPLE-DOG Dare Duh!

"RE: Chivalry and the Double Dare Duh"
Posted by byoffer on 03-07-12 at 04:56 PM
they feel they ARE giving something--the mere appearance of their attractiveness

I wonder if the guys would be as quick to help a tribe of less attractive women. My guess is not.


"RE: Chivalry and the Double Dare Duh"
Posted by michel on 03-04-12 at 02:52 AM
This post looks as if it had been written by Roger Sexton. All I have to say to refute all this is: Survivor = Social game.
"RE: Chivalry and the Double Dare Duh"
Posted by iltarion on 03-04-12 at 04:00 PM

Just pointing out what we've clearly been shown, regardless of how it sounds.

michel, that doesn't refute the point; it aids it. The men are expected to play a different social game than the women when it is men vs. women. That's the point. It isn't the women's fault. It's society's.

That has always been an interesting thing about Survivor; it reveals all the little social rules within our culture.

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"RE: Chivalry and the Double Dare Duh"
Posted by michel on 03-04-12 at 05:36 PM
LAST EDITED ON 03-04-12 AT 05:37 PM (EST)

Nice point but I'd say it's simply more evident in a season of men vs women. It applies to every season. Survivor isn't a team sport: A rival can become a teammate very quickly or can decide your fate with his vote so you should never antagonize him or her.

One World adds a new dimension but even if both tribes were coed, the one that gets a reward should always think of sharing. In a regular season, after a merge, you get fish for everyone and, if allowed, you bring back part of your reward to share with everyone. It should be the same mentality here but it obviously isn't.



"RE: Chivalry and the Double Dare Duh"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 03-05-12 at 00:18 AM
Chivalry? Sure, stealing stuff from the women right off the bat in episode 1 certainly ranks as a chivalrous moment.
"RE: Chivalry and the Double Dare Duh"
Posted by michel on 03-05-12 at 11:40 AM
Yes, that certainly was the casus belli that has torn the One World concept apart up to now.
"RE: Chivalry and the Double Dare Duh"
Posted by iltarion on 03-05-12 at 05:21 PM

Does a non-chivalrous act cancel out a chivalrous one? If I open the car door but then we split the bill, am I not chivalrous? Is it an all or nothing distinction? Exactly how high are the expectations?

And michel, your point regarding post merge sharing is the exact opposite of the way Chelsea handled the chicken. Yet, you didn't blame her at all for doing that. Nor should you considering you have always evoked the "in the game" defense for bad behavior.

So, unlike other people I am referring to here, I don't think you EXPECT chivalry from the men at all. You just expect them to play a smart social game, which may or may not include chivalry.

I would just point out that in both the cases with Chelsea and Alicia you seem to turn a blind eye to their social game. So, maybe you don't expect the men to be chivalrous, but it does seem to be a worse offense for them than it is for the women.


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"RE: Chivalry and the Double Dare Duh"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 03-05-12 at 05:38 PM
LAST EDITED ON 03-05-12 AT 05:39 PM (EST)

The point is that I don't think the guys should be complaining about chivalry when they haven't always been such themselves and they helped set the tone from the very beginning with the stealing of supplies and the cocky trash-talk from guys such as Troyzan.

And for that matter, I don't think the ladies should be expecting too much help from the guys in the first place - they didn't win the rewards, and if they were playing under the old rules of the previous 23 seasons, they would have had to find a way to survive on their own beach/island, far away from the other tribe's camp. Suck it up and find a way to make your shelter better.

Both tribes need to stop whining and viewers should just enjoy watching the show.

"RE: Chivalry and the Double Dare Duh"
Posted by michel on 03-05-12 at 06:00 PM
"I don't think you EXPECT chivalry from the men at all. You just expect them to play a smart social game, which may or may not include chivalry."

Very true and I've actually said that Chelsea's decision with the chickens could come back to haunt her. That's one of the reasons she isn't #1. But we saw so many people having trouble catching chicken over the years (Rob, Jonathan, Eric) that catching two as if it was nothing was special. She earned those chickens!

Alicia isn't close to the top of my list either because I certainly agree that she isn't playing a good social game. She has been funnier than most of the guys though so that's why she is rated higher than them.

However, I think there is a difference between the men's poor social game and the women's: The women always say that they have to talk to the others before deciding what to do. Matt, Jay and most of the guys gave their personal opinions. For example, Troyzan had invited the girls to their shelter yet Matt acted as if they had barged in. Jay demanded the use of the boat.