"Cirie just had no idea that Tom would be able to get anyone to sway his way."

It was much more JT's move than Tom's. Nothing he said made JT switch. JT perceived, correctly, that Cirie was the mastermind of the majority alliance. There is more than enough chance that she would have gunned for JT, given that he's as big a physical/social threat as Tom, after Colby (and, who knows, possibly before).

Fiji: Not only did Yau Man playing his when he did save himself, it weakened the attempt to upstart an alliance that probably would've gone after Earl next.

That is a tough call. I would still maybe give it to Yul, who saved the Aitu4 without even having to play the HII.
However, if you count only the times it was actually played, then yes, this is probably #1. THAT was exactly what production had in mind when they came up with the idea of the HII.

>

LAST EDITED ON 03-05-10 AT 05:18 PM (EST)

Hello? What about Russell getting rid of....Kelly last season...that was the best use of the idol.

Now, I was also wondering how many of the 'old players' have caught on that once the idol is played, that I will be placed again to be found at camp?

Some of these players aren't as savy as true 'fans' of the show to catch all the details...?

Great thread Esquire! Even though it wasn't as dramatic as Amanda's or Russell's use of the HII at TC (of course both of those were more the element of surprise), I'd have to say this was the best strategic use of an HII at a single TC. What remains to be seen, though, is whether this is a game changer or just delays the inevitable for another week...which is why I tend to agree with Iltarion that Yul is probably the overall idol master.

"I would still maybe give it to Yul, who saved the Aitu4 without even having to play the HII."

The fact that he saved them (if he did, in fact, save them. Lots of the credit must go to Jonathan, who--despite Yul's insistence that he could negotiate on the basis of Jonathan's "rational self-interest"--basically gave up the game in order to let them win. And, yes, I know, Jonathan switched in part because of Yul's possession of the idol and Yul's all-around personability. But it's at least more complicated a situation than to say Yul "saved the Aitu4") without using the idol sorta disqualifies him from owning the title for "best use of the idol". Shouldn't you have to use it to win "best use"? Unless by "use" we don't mean playing it, but I think we do.

LAST EDITED ON 03-05-10 AT 08:44 PM (EST)

Probably Russell as Tom couldn't save Colby with the idol though loved his idea of targeting Cirie (no offense to Cirie). The purple tribe was sure Russell was gone, and if he had gone his tribe was gone too. Amanda's was pretty dramatic but not sure she saved anyone other than herself. Whether that was the difference in Parvati getting to final TC I don't remember.

Parvati makes the FTC regardless.

I already qualified it by stating Yul doesn't count if you only count those who actually played it. Jonathan never flips if Yul doesn't have the idol and doesn't approach him.

Russell playing the idol to save himself and boot Kelly wasn't impressive to me. Of course he was going to play the idol to save himself. That play more showed Galu's idiocy in still voting for him. Plus, Galu still at least had a 5-5 tie even after that. So, that play in itself wasn't a game changer.

>

Except Russell was the only thing keeping his tribe in the game. To that extent it was a game changer.

"Plus, Galu still at least had a 5-5 tie even after that. So, that play in itself wasn't a game changer."

I beg to differ. John wouldn't have flipped, at least right then, had he not been afraid of the purple rock. No Russell, no tie, no rock. I see it as a pretty straight causal line from Kelly's ouster to John's predicament.

What was so great about it? Tom was lucky to be the one to find the idol, he knew he was targeted and he was lucky that JT was willing to gamble his position in the tribe to make it work. JT's move was very gutsy but Tom's move was pretty straightforward if you ask me. It was a fun blindside for us but nothing genius required in pulling it off.

We haven't really seen a great use of the idol, something really creative. We came close once when Todd gave James an idol to counter Zhan Hu's plan to throw a challenge but ZH changed their plans. That would have qualified as great. Nothing we've seen of the idols at TC can qualify as great except in tricking the ones holding the idols.

"We came close once when Todd gave James an idol to counter Zhan Hu's plan to throw a challenge but ZH changed their plans. That would have qualified as great"

I think that was a supremely stupid move, actually. Wouldn't it have been infinitely better for Todd's tribe to throw the challenge? That way, the contigency of ZH changing their minds is covered, and Todd doesn't needlessly put power in James' hands.

If nothing else, it would have been fun to watch two tribes (minus James) trying to throw it at the same time.

All the things posted about Russell were true, but that doesn't change the fact that he HAD to play the idol or go home so that's why I'm unimpressed. John was an idiot. If he "does the math" that he was so fond of, he would have realized the odds the purple rock was giving him were the clear best. He was like the traitor you see in movies, who helps the villians defeat the heroes and then is the first one disposed of immediately afterwards.

True, Tom was in the same boat as Russell. I'm not saying HIS play of the idol was impressive. What I am saying is JT's use of the idol WAS. Did JT not tell Tom to use his idol? Yes.

I agree that Todd's plan to use the idol could have been a creative one, but I disagree that Yul's use was not creative as well. He went to the exact right person and told them join us or you're gone. He used the idol's power without ever even having to play it. I'm not sure how you can do better than that.

Of course, some people refuse to give Yul any credit. Maybe they went to Harvard or something.

>

I don't think John was an idiot, because the Purple Rock gave him bad odds. With Mick having Immunity and Natalie not drawing a rock, there were only three (counting Shambo) of the Foa Foa Alliance who could get a rock, while there were four Galu. Even if he wound up safe, the odds were that Galu would be losing a member, so he made the best move he could, which was to make sure it wasn't him.

I think Yul is probably the guy who used his idol the best. Sometimes the best weapon is the one you can use without firing.

Well, I'm giving Yul plenty of credit for his use of the idol. I'd put him in a tie with RussHell for best use of the idol since they both used it to save their tribes.

With that said, however, I think Yul is smarter than RussHell because RussHell has such a huge ego. Yul was smart enough to downplay whatever ego he has and to come off as a real nice guy, and that's why he won and RussHell lost.

"All the things posted about Russell were true, but that doesn't change the fact that he HAD to play the idol or go home so that's why I'm unimpressed."

Yes, the play itself was not impressice. What impressed me was being able to find the idol, not to mention bothering to look for it in the first place. Once he had it, the rest was elementary.

"John was an idiot. If he 'does the math' that he was so fond of, he would have realized the odds the purple rock was giving him were the clear best."

There's a reason a purple-rock tie has only happened once. Odds or no odds, nobody wants to go out like that. Once in a while, players will gain leverage by pretending they don't care. Rob and Amber used it to turn Jenna, and Ian used it to oust Greg, as I recall. None of them actually wanted to go through with it, I'll bet. I don't blame John for being just like everyone who ever played the game. Especially since he wasn't like the traitors to whom you allude. His ouster was a matter of happenstance, as I don't think it was editing slight-of-hand that Dave was next to go.

"True, Tom was in the same boat as Russell. I'm not saying HIS play of the idol was impressive. What I am saying is JT's use of the idol WAS. Did JT not tell Tom to use his idol? Yes."

I think it was more a matter of he knew Tom was going to play it anyway. So I guess you could say he used Tom's idol by proxy.

"I disagree that Yul's use was not creative as well. He went to the exact right person and told them join us or you're gone. He used the idol's power without ever even having to play it. I'm not sure how you can do better than that."

Yul went to the right person, yes. But whether Penner turned because of the idol, because of Yul's persuasion, or for other reasons is unclear to me. It all depends on whether or not his subsequent attitude that he had thrown the game away for a noble cause was an after-the-fact rationalization.

At best, I can say the idol was necessary but not sufficient for Jonathan's flip. There were two other, interrelated, factors. First, he liked Yul, felt Yul was the only other person who spoke his strategic language, or whatever. Therefore, he felt he was in a better position to win if he was on Yul's side. Second, he hated his own alliance and felt strongly enough about their unworthiness to give up the game in order to give Yul's side a chance to win. Whatever slot you place the idol, his respect for Yul, and his hatred of Candice/Parvati/Adam, respectively, in the hierarchy of his decision, one thing is clear: it was not the idol alone.

Finally, the reason people hold back credit from Yul? It's pretty unanimous that the idol was too powerful in his day. That's why they changed the rules so that you had to play it before the votes were read.

>I think that was a supremely
>stupid move, actually. Wouldn't it
>have been infinitely better for
>Todd's tribe to throw the
>challenge? That way, the contigency
>of ZH changing their minds
>is covered, and Todd doesn't
>needlessly put power in James'
>hands.

Actually, that was Fei Long's original plan. Remember Todd had to go to Denise and Courtney to tell them that they had to win the challenge afterall. Jamie was much more dangerous than Sherea and throwing a challenge would have put doubts in Frosti's mind. Todd needed Frosti. Todd also needed James to trust him and that wasn't a given before that move. James could have flipped to ZH if, knowing his clue was what gave Todd an idol, he had been sent empty handed back to the other side.

Anyway Todd had an agreement to share the idols, he knew the power he was putting in James's hands and we saw how that power was wasted.

>If nothing else, it would have
>been fun to watch two
>tribes (minus James) trying to
>throw it at the same
>time.

The only fun in that would have been to expose how stupid the rules of Survivor are.

LAST EDITED ON 03-25-10 AT 10:21 AM (EST)

This is now the best use of the idol, EVER. Basicly, Russel used the idol in such a way as to get Tyson to vote himself out.

I am not a Russell fan, but you have to be awed by the confidence he has to have in himself to give away the idol in a plan like this. As they used to say on the A-Team - I love it when a plan comes together

LAST EDITED ON 03-25-10 AT 06:00 AM (EST)

It was fun to watch, and nervy, as Russell could have played it to save himself for one more week. Did depend though on Tyson being foolish. Yul was depending more on Jonathan's intelligence.

What's also impressive is that Russell just gave Parvati a strong motive for not abandoning him (if she needed it) unless she wants to appear completely untrustworthy. Might also prevent Rob's alliance from even trying to get her to switch sides.

It was a risky and gutsy move but we have to see how it develops before judging the value of the move. If Russ and Parvati don't turn the game around it was worth nothing. If some tribe mates see the move and think: "I want to be on Russ' side" then it will be a genius move.

We also have to consider how much Russell knew what Tyson was going to do. If he had a pretty good idea of Tyson's vote then the move gains in value. If he only trusted his gut, the move was very lucky to work. Interviews should tell us that.

PS: Yul counted on Jonathan's greed and stupidity.

>What's also impressive is that Russell
>just gave Parvati a strong
>motive for not abandoning him
>(if she needed it) unless
>she wants to appear completely
>untrustworthy.

His little charade of going to Jeff, thinking about it, and then giving to to Parv might also buy him Coach's loyalty...

However, at the end of the day, his play of the idol is inconsequential, because it was Tyson's remarkable stupidity that made it work. Tyson flipped his vote for absolutely no reason. The plan was a 3-3 split, with 3 voting Russell and 3 voting Parv. Russell told Tyson he was going to vote for Parv since he couldn't save her, and that caused Tyson to flip. But, Tyson flipping makes no sense, because his vote was a wasted vote. If Russell votes Parv, Parv goes home. Tyson's vote didn't change that.

I think Russell played Coach like a fiddle. That last comment to Coach was to remind him that honor is the only thing. Well played Russell on both Tyson and Coach.

Thanks Ag dahlin'!

"However, at the end of the day, his play of the idol is inconsequential, because it was Tyson's remarkable stupidity that made it work."

Tyson's stupidity was necessary, but the idol inconsequential? Hardly. If Russell doesn't give it to Parvati, Parvati's out instead of Tyson.

"Yul was depending more on Jonathan's intelligence."

Really? I think Jonathan would've placed better if he had ignored Yul.

I might be missing something but,
how did Russell know that Tyson's vote was supposed to be for Russell?
He told Tyson he was voting for Parvarti; hoping to get Tyson to vote for Parvarti.
But how did he know which 3 were voting Parvarti & which 3 were voting Russell?
If Tyson had been one of the 3 already set to vote Parvarti, nothing would change.


for talking a lot? me? Jan 2010