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Original Message
"Love/Loathe List - Episode 10"
Posted by Aruba on 04-24-09 at 06:30 PM
Well it had to happen eventually. Can't complain too loudly considering Episode 10 was the first time this season the Anti-Darwin Syndrone (ADS) came into play. As soon as they focused on and did a close-up of Benji's and JT's handshake, I was 99.999999% sure at that moment Tyson was a goner.

1) STEVE (3,2,2,3,3,4,3) - Has been a factor in every decision to turn the game around and seems to come out of it unscathed. It doesn't happen by chance; he's a solid player...and he has the HII and in all likelihood another idol will not be hidden as long as he has it. Question is can he be another Yau-Man and have the intuition and the smarts to play it at the right time?

2) DEBBIE (5,6,6,8,7,13,14) - And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson. Assuming the word "feast" in the RC clue was clever; and a clutch shot in the IC forced Sierra to beg for more mercy (which I considered the "highlight" of this episode.) As I stated last week, if the ADS continues to play out, she could be a force.

3) JT (2,3,7,4,6,6,1) - Disappointing episode for him. He brands himself a liar and decides to feed his face more even after coming back from a RC feast. The good 'ole country boy image has been shattered and is now the #1 target as a challenge threat. He'll need a lot of things to fall in place for him now.

4) BENJI (6,8,8,9,9,11,9) - When Jeff was trying to make Benji look like an a$$ (which isn't hard to do) I thought he handled himself well. What Jeff doesn't realize is Brendan was not booted because he was feared as a threat in challenges; it's because he was percieved as a sneaky player who would decieve to advance presenting a serious trust issue. And Brendan was gunning for Benji, so why not? At any rate I was also impressed with the way he contained himself at TC after the Tyson blindside.

5) ERINN (7,9,10T,10,11,12,11) - You did a fine job jogging after JT while he carried the puzzle pieces; and even a better job listening to Debbie tell you to spell out the word "feast." But the reason I moved her up is she's making me look like a prophet when "telling her story" weeks ago to fan(s) eagerly awaiting to hear her purpose this season.
Question: Was she yaking at the RC because of a combination of overeating and dancing?...Or was she paying personal and appropriate homage to Jerry??

6) TAJ (4,5,5,2,2,5,4) - She went from an early season strategizer, a valuable competitor in the team contests, and possessor of a HII...to follower, horrible in challenges, and no HII. Where else do I rank her?

7) SIERRA (8,7,4,6,4,3,2) - It was pretty pathetic (in an entertaining way) watching her bellycrawl and beg like some homeless person. But it's a non-entertaining pathetic having nothing to do with saving herself and advancing in this game. Now she can partner with Erinn and through mere circumstances be called upon to sell their bloc vote to the highest bidder(s). Long live Monte Hall!

BOOTED) TYSON (1,1,1,1,1,2,5) - Yeah, you would have been a "Bad A$$" if you won another IC...problem is you would have had to retain that "Bad A$$" label up to the F3 to have a chance of winning. That's what happens when production casts lame and inept applicants to set the ADS in motion. Will miss his confessionals dearly, but I expect some more classic lines from Tyson at FTC.

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Messages in this discussion
"RE: Love/Loathe List - Episode 10"
Posted by iltarion on 04-24-09 at 08:56 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-24-09 AT 08:57 PM (EST)

And so it begins. I predicted last week that if Tyson didn't win the IC it would be very tempting for Stephen to take him out. Exactly. The surprise of the night was that the foursome who turned the tables didn't even bother letting Sierra in on the move. Haha... talk about disdain.

1. Stephen- Very much looking like the winner now. Didn't they also bother to show Parvati lounging at Exile Island before she won? I don't think we've seen a player pull another's strings so thoroughly since Rob C controlled Matt. JT keeps making all the moves Stephen needs him to. Meanwhile, Stephen takes none of the blame and appears on no one's radar. Looking great right now, this season's editing has fooled me before though, so...
2. Coach - Continues to get a huge part of the screen time even when he is not targeted. With Tyson gone, he is the lone entertainment now. Compassion towards Sierra was his best moment of the season, and really seemed to be put in contrast to how the other players were treating her. His 'strong-aligning-with-the-strong' is a strategy I have been calling for years now. The problem is he is too up front about it to pull it off. When you tell everyone about taking "warriors" to the end, all the "non-warriors" immediately know they need to get rid of you. His and Tyson's fatal mistake was making an alliance of 3. That gets you no where. They needed a fourth or a fifth from the beginning.
3. Debbie- Coming on strong in both face time and performance. Clutch IC win and was instrumental in winning the RC as well. She is in the minority now, but I can still see her lasting a while. Coach is the next target and Sierra will be discarded as soon as Jalapao can afford it. After that, JT could very well be targeted instead of Debbie. We will see.
4. Erin - Made the big though predictable move after doing nothing for how many days. Her screen time took a big jump, looking good, and also looking good in the game. The move benefitted her and Stephen most. She was clearly not in Coach's band of "warriors" and therefore was no better than 6th with that group. This gives her a good shot at 4th, and if she can win that IC, then who knows. I don't think she has the story of a winner, but she made the right move at the right time and prolonged her time in the game.
5. Taj - Still showed very little and didn't get much screen time. She was quick to jump on the idea of getting rid of Tyson though, which was the better move for her. Coach and Tyson were clearly building a 'men-plus-Debbie' alliance; so she had no place in their plans. Her plans look just fine now. I don't see her winning this though unless her story gets a big rejuvenation.
6. JT- Took a stock market like tumble in my rankings, and the reasons are manifold. First, he stuffed his face at the RC and then sat out and stuffed his face at the IC. Pathetic. Then, he shook Coach's hand and pretended to be honorable, and then betrayed him as soon as Stephen said boo. Lastly, it was not the right move for him to initiate the booting of the strong. If he sticks with Coach's plan, he makes it to F4, and there one IC win gives him this game. Now, what happens if Coach wins the next IC? You are going to be looking pretty vulnerable, JT. Yeah, Debbie and Sierra might be in the offing before him, but the temptation to get rid of him will be there just like it was with Tyson. Wrong move.
7. Sierra- I don't know what is going on with her. I thought the abuse she took for merely being in an alliance was ridiculous, but it is obvious by everyone's reactions to her that there is more involved than that. She just rubs people the wrong way. The fact that the 4 who saved her never even bothered to let her know what they were doing shows what people think of her worth in this game. JT was almost more concerned with keeping her around than betraying Coach. She is weak, which could get her farther, but I also think she could be booted at any time. No one wants her there.

if there were any mormon stereotypes, they are gone now-
The Tysonater....an all time great confessional blowhard. His game? Never what he boasted it was. He was basically the entertainer in camp who had a good IC run. I fail to see how his game was much superior to Coach's when his only apparent plan was to ride Coach's coattails. Ultimately done in by the ADS and his own poor foresight. Some truly mean and pathetic comments about other players in the game, mostly Sierra. It was a little funny, but I don't see how these people can talk like that when they know the person they are talking about, and their family and friends, are going to see the show. Ultimately made him look like a mean-spirited rat. P/O


>

"RE: Love/Loathe List - Episode 10"
Posted by garcor on 04-24-09 at 10:28 PM

1) Steve - Appears to be JT's confidant and the biggest influence on his decision making. Also seems to be stoking his ego a little; didn't he suggest they were setting JT up for a challenge run (also setting him up as the next big target.) Always seems to be strategizing and does not look to have ticked anyone off yet. Still think there is a potential he could outsmart himself but hasn't yet.

2) Erinn - Wanted to confirm; it was Erinn who was first shown suggesting to Taj that they go after Tyson? Think it was; and her earlier confessional showed her ready to flip on Timbura. Likely smart move as pointed out above was not one of Coach's warriors. Closer to a spare vote than anything. But could be a spare vote used to move out JT and then who knows how far she might go. While does not seem to have any close relationships, does appear to have head in game and is willing to do whatever she needs to in order to improve her position.

3) JT - Don't think he made himself any more of a target than he would have been anyway. And I wouldn't have put too much faith in coach's warrior alliance if I were JT. Coach has said a lot of stuff that doesn't stand up to close (or any) scrutiny and appears to possess a real talent for convincing himself that his motives and behavior are always above board even when they don't look that way to others. As far as being honorable, to me Coach was just trying to manipulate JT to keep him loyal and JT was smart enough to see through it. Still should be the number one target and had better be suspicious of everyone, including close ally Steve.

4) Debbie: Good challenge performances. If Jalapao holds together a little longer and keeps Erinn's and Sierra's votes, Debbie could be the next one gone (assuming Jalapao's decide to keep Coach around as potential final TC opponent.) More likely he will go and a stripped of allies Debbie could hang around long enough to have a shot at winning important final immunities.

5) Taj: Didn't seem to do much, but quickly recognized value of voting out Tyson while they had the chance. Note that Stephen seems to regard idol Taj gave him as now his. Doubt she could guilt or threaten him to give it back. Could figure in potential ladies alliance. They now have the numbers to start moving out the biggest threats among the men, which could spell trouble fo both JT and Stephen. Suspect at least one of them has noticed how smart Stephen is at this game and would suggest targeting him.

6) Coach: If a recap on ET was right, Coach's real reason for targeting Brendan wasn't suspicion of Brendan's ties with Taj, it was pure jealously at Timbura telling Coach Brendan was the better leader. Not sure of this but could believe it. Wouldn't say much for Coach as it would mean he helped blow up a tribe with a 6-3 lead for poor reasons. But Brendan did have another alliance so maybe the fault was Brendan's for thinking he could be part of two competing alliances at the same time. Looks on Coach and Tyson's faces at TC vote reading were priceless. Think if they were suspicious of a Brendan/Taj alliance they should have targeted Taj and made Brendan choose sides. And if they were moving out Brendan they sure should have courted Erinn and Sierra in order to keep numbers on their side.

7) Sierra: Don't think decision to not tell her about Tyson vote out was because they have no regard for her. Think it was a reaction to her choosing to beg Coach, Tyson and whichever other Timbura would listen, for her game life rather than try to use strategy (e.g. try to interest erstwhile ally Taj in voting out Tyson or Coach.) Thought they said they were concerned she might go to Tyson or Coach with the information if she found out about their plans. Still doesn't make her look good; or like a player at all. And did come across as childish and annoying to hear the constant whining and crying.

Gone Tyson: Had some funny lines but enjoyment at kicking the already down Sierra became ugly and made him look bad. Bad strategy on the part of Tyson and Coach in not trying to recruit the harmless Sierra and promise Erinn final four. They should have foreseen that the Jalapao's might prefer to stick together for as long as practical and go after the Timbura's once they saw the cracks in that tribe.

"RE: Love/Loathe List - Episode 10"
Posted by Aruba on 04-25-09 at 07:59 AM
I've been calling for the strong-aligning-with-the-strong strategy for years too. There are no less than half a dozen other reality shows where the weak and oppressed can apply and if selected be tossed like human hampsters in a controlled environment...then let the social experiment begin.

Yet in true "Survivior" fashion, aka Robinson Crusoe fashion, aka "Survival of the Fittest" have the warriors fight it out to the end...HMMMM How's THAT for a concept!!!

Although I don't think the problem is as much being upfront with this great concept or putting it out in the open as Coach did. The problem comes down to sheer numbers. No season is casted with enough of these players so they are always down in numbers from the word GO. Sad, but true.

I also agree with you that JT didn't do any favors for himself last episode, but after analyzing it a little more, not sure what other viable options he had? I think we can all come to the undisputable conclusion that JT doesn't call the shots or pull the strings. That being said, when Steve was able to successfully rally the weak and oppressed to target the strong it was four solid votes for Tyson. If JT keeps his word to Coach it creates a 4-4 tie and if still a tie after a re-vote someone's game is over because of the stupid purple rock tiebreaker. Even if JT casted a throw away vote, it is essentially the same thing as writing down Tyson's name. I think the "numbers game" victimized him as much as anything this episode.

"RE: Love/Loathe List - Episode 10"
Posted by bostonrobfan on 04-25-09 at 00:11 AM
First list of the season for me:

1. Stephen
2. JT
3. Taj
4. Erinn
5. Coach
6. Sierra
7. Debbie

"RE: Love/Loathe List - Episode 10"
Posted by Jims02 on 04-25-09 at 00:49 AM
LAST EDITED ON 04-25-09 AT 00:55 AM (EST)

1. JT - Still my favorite person on the show. He's entertaining to watch and really knows how to build strong alliances with people. I can't stand Coach, so I love seeing his own alliance flip against him.

2. Erinn - Gawd, she's hot. One of my biggest gripes with her is that she's been kinda worthless at strategy. It was really nice to see her make a significant move in the game. It's about time! Still wouldn't really vote for her if I was in a jury, though.

3. Stephen - Playing the game really well, recognizing he can't proceed if he goes into the Final 5 with JT, Coach, Tyson, and Debbie. Making this move was pretty much his only choice at the moment.

4. Debbie - She seems to have a pretty decent grasp on how the game works. It was definitely one of those "you made your bed" moments with Sierra.

5. Taj - Pretty invisible this week.

6. Sierra - I liked her a lot before this episode, but it was extremely disappointing seeing her grovel and beg. I hate it when people turn off their game and just go for the pity vote. She clearly had some options with Jalapao (as we saw), so her crawling back to Coach is pretty sad.

7. Coach - Wow, way to completely give away all the power to the smaller tribe. I'm just amazed at how poorly-thought his game is. Okay, let's annoy Erinn for twenty days and expect her to stay loyal to me. And Brendan/Sierra are being shady, but that's okay! I'm making a deal with JT and Stephan. But I'll make sure to tell them I'm taking them to the Final 5 at a 3-2 disadvantage! They'd be sure to stick through that kind of deal!

...Oh whoops, they decided they didn't want to lose the game at the Final 5. Stupid me. </Coach>

You know, I can get the fact that he had to rely on some people he just met with the Jalapao. With the way his tribe fractured (Erinn, Sierra/Brendan), it was his only choice. But to offer them such a terrible deal is stupid. They should've just made it a F4 deal.

Of course, JT & Stephen still would've wanted to keep Taj. But at least then, Coach could pick off Sierra and Erinn and then force a tie in the F6.

Seriously, it's a little baffling how badly Coach checkmated himself post-merge. I'd be pretty impressed if he could get out of this mess.


A 2003 IceCat original

"RE: Love/Loathe List - Episode 10"
Posted by garcor on 04-25-09 at 07:42 AM
Do think that's a sign of how irrational Coach really is. Note that Brendan made a comment in one of his post-boot interviews that he thinks Coach lives in a part fictional world.
"RE: Love/Loathe List - Episode 10"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 04-25-09 at 05:56 PM
This is hot?

"RE: Love/Loathe List - Episode 10"
Posted by michel on 04-25-09 at 09:26 PM
No...


But this is!

"RE: Love/Loathe List - Episode 10"
Posted by Jims02 on 04-26-09 at 00:22 AM
Oh, just wait until she gets her glasses on.


A 2003 IceCat original

"RE: Love/Loathe List - Episode 10"
Posted by Aruba on 04-27-09 at 06:50 PM
Atta boy, Michel

Keep us away from the Erinn close-ups! LOL

"RE: Love/Loathe List - Episode 10"
Posted by Aruba on 04-27-09 at 06:49 PM
YOWZA!!!!!!!!!!!

Last time I saw something THAT horrid was when a character popped up in Munchkinland following a cloud of green smoke...

"RE: Love/Loathe List - Episode 10"
Posted by michel on 04-25-09 at 10:03 AM
LAST EDITED ON 04-25-09 AT 10:04 AM (EST)

Mr. Prophet, I think your prophecy is leaking. As I recall, you announced to the crowd of fan(s) that Erinn would sell her vote to the highest bidder. You even added and I quote from your book of whizdum: "JT...a big THANK YOU for elaborating on my Erinn story from last week..."If I need her vote I'll call on her."

Now, what I saw is Erinn going to Stephen and Taj to proactively (I know you like that word!) change the vote from Sierra to Tyson. Through Stephen, I would even say that she called on JT and used his vote instead of the other way around. If you're not convinced, read what Iltarion had to say about JT's move. I wouldn't go as far as saying it was a dumb move for him but it wasn't his call and it could cause jury problems if he gets there.
So, as far as prophecy, isn't it like fitting a square peg in a round hole?

1) STEPHEN (4,5,6,2,2,2,3,2)- Everything is working well for Stephen. He's now the man in charge of the majority alliance through very little effort of his own. Talk about stumbling ass-backwards into something. The only question I have is why the need for the idols at this point? Holding on to Taj's idol can provoke a reaction against Stephen. Then the vultures would have something to chew on.

2) ERINN (7,1,1,4,3,2,3)- That was a nifty move by Erinn and certainly something she could bring up to the jury. It could cost her Tyson's vote but, judging by Brendan's reaction, it could earn her enough of the other votes to winn.

3) JT (3,4,3,5,5,4,1)- "JT is so fast", "I've seen people going on runs" were only a few of the quotes that could foreshadow JT going on an IC run. Only the last 2 ICs will matter because he's now set up perfectly for the F4. Weird choice for a warrior not to compete but it underlines what I always said about immunity: They are there mostly for audience and player amusement. They'd go insane without the activities and we'd be watching them rot in camp like Stephen in Exile.

4) DEBBIE (12,13,8,8,8,7,6)- Wouldn't Debbie be a fun gal to have in camp? You got to like a school principal who does back-flips in her underwear!

5) TAJ (9,6,4,6,6,6,4)- I like Taj but where is she?

6) SIERRA (1,3,2,3,4,5,5) - I liked Sierra but who is this sad sack that took her place? A fighter would have gone to Taj and Stephen rather than begged to Coach.

7) Coach (8,8,11,10,10,9,7)- He almost sounded sane this week. Coach won the battle but he forgot about the war. You don't suppose his softened image is due to the fact that the editors got all they needed from egomaniac Coach and now we will have a clearer picture of "struggling Coach"?

Booted) TYSON (5,10,12,7,7,8,8): I will always maintain that it cannot go against Darwinism when the most stupid gets killed.


"RE: Love/Loathe List - Episode 10"
Posted by suzzee on 04-25-09 at 05:21 PM
You don't suppose his softened image is due to the fact that the editors got all they needed from egomaniac Coach and now we will have a clearer picture of "struggling Coach"?

This is exactly what I've been thinking. We certainly got different opinions of Coach from both Brendan and Tyson. Brendan said he's harmless and I got the distinct impression he's just a weird cookie and neither of those two took him as a threat or even annoying. More amusement then anything else.


Fear and Loathing Tribe style 2008

"RE: Love/Loathe List - Episode 10"
Posted by Aruba on 04-26-09 at 08:21 AM
Well I guess I threw the guantlet on this one so I expected a response. Now it's Mr. Prophet's turn to reply to Mr. Spin Doctor.

My prophecy had nothing to do with JT and everything to do with Erinn (and the lame castaways before her who fall into circumstances where their votes get solicited.) I'm not surprised Erinn supporters would spin this to suggest Erinn was the "Mastermind" of the ADS. Quite frankly there's nothing masterful or strategic about fearing a more solid performer and when most of the remaining characters are sadly the weak and oppressed they gang up on the few strong, regardless of who initiated it (which personally I give more credit to Steven.)

As far as JT is concerned, make no mistake about it...STEVE is the one pulling his strings. If anyone truly thinks anyone other than Steve is the driving force behind JT's manipulation, then I have nothing more to add on this topic.

As for Tyson and Darwinism...so Tyson is stupid...Whoppty-Do! Did I ever say he was "smart?" As a matter of fact I think the guy is as dumb as a doorstop. Although he was the first to exhibit some common sense and sniff out the EI alliance. But fact of the matter, Tyson was not targeted for his intelligence (or lack of it.) He was targeted for one reason and one reason only...he was a strong competitor whose strength was feared by the weak and oppressed. If you think there was a more significant reason for his boot then clearly you and I have been watching different episodes. And THAT, Mr. Spin Doctor, epitomizes Anti-Darwinism (purely in an "out-in-the-wild" Survivor context.)

"RE: Love/Loathe List - Episode 10"
Posted by iltarion on 04-26-09 at 01:20 PM
Tyson showed some intelligence in his confessionals. He was by far NOT the least intelligent player. He made some mistakes/foolish decisions game wise, true, but in hindsight, you can say that about every player who gets the boot. In the end, he was voted out because he was a challenge threat. You can say he could have made moves to safeguard himself, but so could have Coach and Debbie, and yet they are still around.
People are making too big of a deal out of whether Erin first suggested the booting of Tyson. Notice how the cameras never showed Erin speak those words? Then, Stephen is shown asking Taj- "Do you think Erin is 100%?" That doesn't really jibe with the notion that booting Tyson was Erin's idea. I doubt it was. I imagine Taj or Stephen initially suggested it, and then the voice over was Erin asking the other one if they liked the idea. That scenario would jibe 100% with what was shown.


>

"RE: Love/Loathe List - Episode 10"
Posted by garcor on 04-26-09 at 01:58 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-26-09 AT 01:59 PM (EST)

They did have the earlier Erinn confessional in which she spoke of turning the game around, though in the confessional she seemed content to see Sierra go first. Whether Erinn was the first to suggest it I'm not sure; the show suggested it but perhaps not. Maybe no one person did; Stephen, Taj and Erinn might have been thinking the same thing. One thing does seem fairly certain; Erinn was thinking ahead trying to figure out how she could stay in the game despite an apparent lack of strong ties with anyone else.

"RE: Love/Loathe List - Episode 10"
Posted by michel on 04-26-09 at 06:10 PM
Erinn said: "You know what we could do tonight? He doesn't have immunity." She had to be talking about Tyson because why tell Stephen that Coach doesn't have immunity? Is Coach going on an IC run even a consideration? He doesn't have immunity could only refer to the guy who had it for the last 6 days.

"RE: Love/Loathe List - Episode 10"
Posted by michel on 04-26-09 at 06:20 PM
Tyson was voted out because the smart players realized they didn't need to let the guy who was already thinking about spending his million dollars stand in their way.
"RE: Love/Loathe List - Episode 10"
Posted by Aruba on 04-27-09 at 06:57 PM
Now I'm thoroughly convinced we are not watching the same series.

Tyson was voted out because the weak and oppressed feared him as a challenge stud. End of statement.

"RE: Love/Loathe List - Episode 10"
Posted by michel on 04-27-09 at 08:23 PM
Aruba, we watch the same show except I don't only look at the challenges. Yes, Tyson was a challenge stud, a dumb one at that. Survival depends more on intelligence than muscle.

Here's from his day after interview:
"I was probably too confident after I won the first few challenges, and too trusting in my alliances. Yeah. Lesson learned. I should have probably snooped around a little bit more, even after I'd made my alliances, and probably not been quite as confident or so gullible."

In a post show interview, he admitted he was already thinking of spending his money.

"RE: Love/Loathe List - Episode 10"
Posted by sol on 04-27-09 at 09:08 PM
Hmmm, let me see, in a post game interview he admitted to already thinking of spending his money ... does that mean we should assume that's what the others were thinking about him too? That's too much of a reach for me. :shrug:

But then, I'm among those who do NOT see Erinn as a beauty and a cutie ... and a member of mensa.

"RE: Love/Loathe List - Episode 10"
Posted by michel on 04-27-09 at 09:58 PM
You think it's a reach to say that Tyson appeared cocky and over-confident to the others? They guy who told Jeff he would soon be wearing the necklace again? The guy who said he felt comfortable at TC? The guy who didn't bring his bag to TC?

I saw his interview about already spending his money and used it to illustrate his cockiness.

"RE: Love/Loathe List - Episode 10"
Posted by iltarion on 04-28-09 at 01:12 AM
The reach isn't that Tyson was cocky to overconfident. I think that is obvious to the wildlife in Tocantins. The reach is that it had anything to do with him being booted out. Everyone stated quite clearly why they voted him out- the threat of him going on an IC run. No one said anything about not liking Tyson or thinking he was overconfident. Tyson's overconfidence might have made him vulnerable, but it wasn't the reason why he was voted out.
Erinn was speaking of Tyson. She was probing Stephen to find out what he thought of the idea after Taj brought it up to her. Stephen was part of the "warrior" alliance and therefore had to be approached cautiously. The fact that Stephen asked Taj if she thought Erinn was 100% on board showed that the idea originated with Taj or Stephen. Erinn, of course, wouldn't have known if Taj and Stephen had already discussed it. Taj wouldn't necessarily expose her alliance with Stephen by telling Erinn that. My guess would be Stephen used Taj to recruit Erinn.
That's my version of events. It is the only sequence that fits everything we saw and heard. I guess it is possible Stephen thought Erinn was setting them up or testing their allegiance, but that seems very doubtful considering Erinn's obvious tenuous position in the Timbura alliance.


>

"RE: Love/Loathe List - Episode 10"
Posted by michel on 04-28-09 at 09:29 AM
"The reach is that it had anything to do with him being booted out."

Except that's what Tyson himself said caused his elimination. He was too confident and didn't talk to the others enough to find out what was going on. He made it easy for others to use the possibility of the IC run as an excuse to vote him out right away.

And don't forget that showing you're that strong is pretty dumb in itself. Tyson told us this in his interviews: Seeing Debbie's good effort, Erinn told Tyson he should let Debbie win the first one. Tyson had started to go down his pole and was halfway done when Jeff asked Debbie if she wanted to win that way. Debbie said no so Tyson climbed back up the pole and told her that he could stay there forever. That's when Debbie realized she couldn't win and got off the pole. That's the cockiness I'm talking about that killed his game.

Regarding your version of events, I'll say it's possible but you are reaching (!) beyond what was shown. Taj was never shown saying a thing about Tyson. I doubt that the woman who said "we'll let you do your thing" went on a recruiting expedition.

"RE: Love/Loathe List - Episode 10"
Posted by sol on 04-29-09 at 00:20 AM
"In a post show interview, he admitted he was already thinking of spending his money."

"I saw his interview about already spending his money and used it to illustrate his cockiness. "

I admit I have not bothered to watch the interview, I'm not that into Survivor, or any TV really. But what is a reach ...for me ... is to say that he said in his interview that he was already spending his money means that he said the same thing to the others. (That's the way I read your post - and on reading a couple times again I likely misunderstood your intention.)

Tyson is cocky, no doubt, and that cockiness was easily observable by the others as well; and I would believe that he knew he was cocky long before he got to Tocantins. He had the potential of going on an immunity run, and everyone there knew it ... that means he would definitely be there to the end, with only one other person with him. Obviously they all knew that to eliminate him improved their chances.

Debbie also said he was the entertainer, and that is an important role in Survivor - helps pass the time. IMO he was not eliminated for his cockiness, but for his threat of going on a run. Being cocky isn't really threatening. Being cocky can be annoying but I don't think they found him as annoying as Sandy - for example - so that wasn't the reason for voting him off. He may believe that he was voted off for his overconfidence, but that doesn't mean they think the same thing.

I'll miss him, he emerged as my favorite character this season ... I could laugh at his cockiness. I wouldn't be surprised if everyone there, except Sierra, also laughed at his cockiness.

"RE: Love/Loathe List - Episode 10"
Posted by iltarion on 04-29-09 at 03:58 PM
No, I think Tyson was quite popular. Even when he was being cocky, it seemed to be well received.
I think Tyson was just talking about his game and the mistakes he made in a macro sense. Yeah, again, overconfidence, lack of alliance building beyond the 3 person alliance he was in were the weaknesses in his game, which ultimately left him in position to be booted. But the specific reason why he was booted at this time, instead of Coach for instance, was due to being a challenge threat. That seems clear.
Taj did plenty of talking and alliance building at the beginning of the season. I wouldn't put it past her to do the same with Erinn, even if she has taken a back seat in the editing. Also, in the scenario I described, Stephen probably asked Taj to recruit Erinn; it isnt like she came up with it on her own. Have we ever seen Erinn and Stephen talk? I don't think so. Taj would make a sensible go between.


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"RE: Love/Loathe List - Episode 10"
Posted by sol on 04-26-09 at 08:08 PM
1A - JT (2,3,3,2,7,1) - combination of athleticism and game playing intelligence and in a good alliance ... as long as Erinn doesn't flip. But still has potential to win II, but that could put an ally at risk if Erinn and Sierra flip.

1B - Stephen(3,2,2,3,3,2) - has HII, a close bond with the strongest player left, and is playing a good mental and social game.

3 - Debbie(4,7,7,9,12,13) - starting to see her game ... she is intelligent, has good social skills, and even with the II she is not seen as a threat and is probably safe for at least a couple more eps.

4 - Erinn(5,8,8,7,11,10) - getting some story, but is only starting to build an alliance. With the JT, Stephen, Taj alliance she'll be 4th at best, she'd be better off flipping back to Timbits if - and that's a big IF - Sierra chooses to appease Coach - again.

5 - Taj (6,5,6,6,5,5) - hasn't been shown to do much in the last couple eps., but that may only be because the storylines of others are more pressing right now ... she could still be safe and just flying UTR.

6 - Sierra (7,6,4,5,4,7) - the first impression was that she was weak and even uninterested - because of her illness. The second impression was that she tried to build a camp and be accepted. The third impression was that she was trying to appease Coach. Now she's looking weak again. Perhaps in 'the outside world' she is strong and confident, but she's losing it at the latter stages of Survivor.

7 - the deluded one (8,9,11,12,13,14) - absolutely amazing, there's something he hasn't done before. He may even start to admit he has flaws - naw ... that won't happen. I still think he should be institutionalized for being so out of touch with reality. MB and Jiffy should know better too .... this is a reality show.

Gone, but not forgotten - Tyson. Damn, I was hoping to see what a man tiara would look like. In Gabon, Randy said he didn't care if people didn't 'get him'. I liked Randy because I got his sense of humor. I think Tyson says a lot of things just to see what the reactions will be; I often do something similar, so I really liked his comments - to me they weren't malicious, just his sense of humor.