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Original Message
"Ami, a bag of tears and disappointment at the end"
Posted by iltarion on 04-05-08 at 02:45 AM
LAST EDITED ON 04-05-08 AT 02:47 AM (EST)

What a disappointment! One week after passing up the chance to pull off the most courageous coup d'etat since Tom and Ian decided to force a tie to oust Gregg or since Colby decided to do the same to oust Mitchell and break Jerri and Amber's control of the game, Ami got the boot. I was not surprised nor disappointed in the boot, which was preordained after Ami missed her chance last week. Listen, you get Tracy and Erik to vote for Cirie, the other 3 faves vote for Tracy, you force the 3 to 3 tie, and now you have a tie-breaker between Cirie and Tracy, in which I would take Tracy 7 times out of 10. And BAM, you are now in control of the game, both pre-merge and beyond. There are 2 equally poignant reasons for taking this risk-
1- you are already #6 in the pecking order
2- this is All-Stars! Your 2nd chance at this! Go for a home run!
Instead, Ami plays it safe, only to be booted the following week anyway, which was the worst-case scenario if she would have taken the risk the week before.
So, anyway, that was more deserving than disappointing, but what WAS disappointing was Ami leaving in tears. Here is a woman that I have constantly touted as one of the strongest women to ever play Survivor, and she's in tears because Ozzy said he doesn't trust her. Come on. What happened to that attitude you showed in Vanuatu? Stick up for yourself. Here are 3 people who never included you in their plans, never planned on doing anything other than dumping you as soon as they no longer needed your vote, and you're pleading with them? To ell with that. You should have either just admitted to playing the game or called Erik a liar. One or the other. The emotional breakdown instead was really a disappointment.
Loved Ami's exit interview though. Based off her comments about Ozzy, apparently she does like men after all. I guess she just likes women better, and we have that in common so I understand completely.


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Messages in this discussion
"RE: Ami, a bag of tears and disappointment at the end"
Posted by tribephyl on 04-05-08 at 04:26 AM
Hallelujah! Except for the exit interview gender preference thing.
What a dissappointment Ami turned out to be.
Sadly, I guess she was more concerned about being liked after the show versus turning this second chance into a winning situation. Looks like a "fairplay" exit.
"RE: Ami, a bag of tears and disappointment at the end"
Posted by Aruba on 04-05-08 at 09:37 AM
My biggest gripe with Ami is that this season is dubbed Fans vs. "Favorites" and she was ranked near the bottom of the popularity poll for her season (the only fav finishing lower than her in their respective season was Fairplay).

So IMHO given the name of the season, she should not have been there to begin with. Her exit interview was probably window-dressing to try to deflect a true image as a male-basher. I'm on the same page with you about liking women better, but I feel she still has issues with men.

I guess I had always seen Ami in a much different light than you but she was never anything close to "one of the strongest women to ever play Survivor." In Vanuatu when her tribe won a reward challenge they ate food in an area that had a poster board with all pictures from home (can't remember if there were letters also) but she cried like a baby when she looked at her pictures. Not that there's anything wrong with emotion, but never regarded her as "strong".

Any TC attended by Cirie where she doesn't get voted out is a big disappointment for me. So for that reason only, you got my agreeable vote as a big disappointment.

"RE: Ami, a bag of tears and disappointment at the end"
Posted by iltarion on 04-05-08 at 09:57 AM
In Ami's favor, I do have to concede the fact that she was injured down the stretch. She still had her knee wrapped during her after interviews. For someone who relies on their physicality as a strength, an injury can really be discouraging and stressful, leading to emotional turmoil.
I really encourage people to watch the TC clip showing everyone's vote. Cirie actually had a really hard time writing down Ami's name. What was she considering? She obviously is being pinched by Ozzy and Amanda and considered NOT voting with them this time.


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"RE: Ami, a bag of tears and disappointment at the end"
Posted by Aruba on 04-05-08 at 10:54 AM
Good point, Iltarion. With all the focus on Jonathan's gouged leg and Parvati's fat lip to match her monster teeth, we forget that Ami also got injured in that same challenge.

But the problem I have with Ami (or anyone from Vanuatu) being considered a "physical" competitor is that season we had nothing to really gauge physicality to. Vanuatu, more so than any other season, was the worst example (or for you social butterflies out there, the "best" example) of "Anti-Darwin Syndrome". The top four or five physical competitors were taken out right from the start, so challenge wins that season get a big fat asterisk in my book. The winner Chris was a perfect example. He single-handedly loses early team challenges which started this targeting of the strong players. Then he goes on an immunity run in the end?...It all comes down to competition and the competition was heavily depleted in Vanuatu.

As for Cirie...I understand what she was considering. Vote the way SHE wanted to or be a coattail rider. She wanted the last Fan gone (Erik) plain and simple. She probably was not 100% whether Amanda would vote Ami. Cirie was thinking if she voted Ami and Amanda voted Erik (perhaps doe-eyes would be emotionally swayed by Ami's tears) Cirie would have been sick at the thought that Erik could have been gone if she stuck to her guns. So what does she do??? Vote who SHE really wants to go (Erik) or ride coattails (Ami). This is Cirie we're talking about, so after some consideration it's pretty certain which way she would go.

"Correction"
Posted by smokedog on 04-05-08 at 08:09 PM
It's Parv's gums that are monstrous, not her teeth


"RE: Correction"
Posted by Aruba on 04-05-08 at 08:42 PM
Are you sure...I could have sworn I saw an "R.I.P" engraved on one of her front teeth!
"RE: Correction"
Posted by Karchita on 04-06-08 at 01:20 AM
It's the total effect of teeth and gums and fakey smile that frightens and nauseates me.


"RE: Correction"
Posted by PsychoKitty on 04-06-08 at 08:35 PM
You are all right! Her look is "disturbed." Such a fake and slutty smile - gums and all!

Not that I have an opinion one way or another ;)
Signature by tribephyl

"Ami was always a Favorite"
Posted by michel on 04-05-08 at 12:21 PM
"you force the 3 to 3 tie, and now you have a tie-breaker between Cirie and Tracy, in which I would take Tracy 7 times out of 10."

I see there is still confusion about tie-breakers. The fire challenge only happens at F4 where the purple rock can't be used. In a tribe of 6, we still have to consider that a tie would be handled this way:

1- A revote
2- If the vote is still tied, the 2 vote-getters become immune and the 4 voters have to pick rocks.

That's how a final 6 tie in Palau would have been decided and we have had no indication that it has changed since. Forcing a tie at 6 is a bad idea. It shows your hand if you change your vote or it exposes you to the purple rock of death.

That being said, I always liked Ami more as a person than a player. I liked her calm and her strength in Vanuatu where she should have been even more determined instead of trying to appease Scout by voting out Eliza.

In Micronesia, she wound up on the wrong side of the tribe divide but it wasn't that evident at first. She missed her chance well before the Tracy vote. She should have hopped on the couples' alliance immediately when Ozzy wanted Eliza out instead of Yau Man. That would have squeezed out Cirie and given Ami more latitude in moving against Ozzy at the right time, i.e. after merge.

Her exit was touching, revealing the softer side of Ami. It concluded a nice story that was the editors way to repay a debt to her. Ami was used as the Vanuatu "Villain" when all she did was try to lead her alliance to the end. Just like any male leader. The problem was that Ami made for a more natural villain than the really devious one; Scout. Look at Vanuatu again and you'll realize that, from day 1, Scout manipulated events to throw discord in the tribe. It started immediately on the trek to the camp.

This time, the editors gave us the opportunity to hear Ami expressing her plans, showing she knows how to play this game and we heard her compassion for the fans when she said the fan-bashing had to stop. A much nicer edit for one of the serie's Favorite "Villains".

You see, being at the bottom of the popularity pole is a good thing, it means the fans react to a character.

PS: Fact = Tina decided to oust Mitchell.


"RE: Ami was always a Favorite"
Posted by iltarion on 04-05-08 at 06:33 PM
"That's how a final 6 tie in Palau would have been decided and we have had no indication that it has changed since."
Inaccurate. In that very season, Stephanie and BJ had a tie-breaker to decide who goes and who stays, well before the F4, it was the fire challenge. Ian and Tom only assumed it would be the purple rock. Prior evidence earlier that season indicated it would not have been. Or do you believe they would have had a fire challenge decide one tie-breaker and then go back to the purple rock for the next one? I don't follow the logic in that. It is especially illogical when you consider that the original violet rock debacle was IN the F4. So, if Exile and Cook Island clearly show that the F4 will no longer be decided by the punked rock, there is also no logic in assuming that a tie at F6 or before would be decided by such a method. No, we haven't seen the puke rock since Marquesas. Is it quite possible that MB and company realized the debacle of having an F3 decided by picking a stone? History seems to indicate yes. Every tie-breaker challenge, 3, have been fire challenges since. Logic would indicate that a fire challenge is the most likely tie-breaker.
Secondly, James Polk was the 11th President is a fact. Tina deciding to boot Mitchell is an opinion or perception of events. Maybe even she thinks she decided to boot him. However, since Kieth is gone if Colby votes with Jerri and Amber, and since Jerri and Amber and Mitchell all thought Colby was voting with them, not Tina, I defend my perception is more factual as to what actually happened.
Lastly, I agree with most your comments about Ami. However, again, I think you give the edit more blame than deserved. It was Ami who had an alliance-mate booted for simply asking Ami to teach her something "in case Ami at some point was no longer around." It was also Ami who point blank told Twila that she couldn't trust her, thus setting herself up for the betrayal by Twila an yes, Scout.

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"RE: Ami was always a Favorite"
Posted by michel on 04-05-08 at 06:58 PM
"In that very season, Stephanie and BJ had a tie-breaker to decide who goes and who stays, well before the F4, it was the fire challenge."

That was a F2 situation for Ulong. Of course the vote doesn't work, you need a challenge. F4 in a tribe cannot be decided by the rock if one has immunity but, when more than 2 voters are tied after a revote, the rock is still in use.

Jonathan said that he didn't want to vote alone at F9 to eliminate Yul's idol because he knew that at F8 the votes would go 4-4 with him facing off against Yul. He also knew that Raro would fold because of the purple rock.

The rock still settles the ties when more than 4 players attend TC.

I don't want to discuss Outback but listen again to my all-time favorite episode: Jerri, Amber, Colby, Mitchell AND Tina were in a five block of votes established on Day 1. They mention it twice in the first 4 episodes. It has been documented in interviews and on the DVD that Tina changed the vote during the walk to TC and was the one to convince Colby to keep Keith.

PS: Lisa wasn't an alliance mate. Scout was ready to let her go home if that was the twist for not being put on one of the tribes. Lisa became part of the alliance only when Scout saw how Eliza, Ami and Leann didn't trust her. Scout wanted disharmony and that was one way to achieve it. With no mix-up, Lisa was next to go anyway. That little scene was shown to help turn Ami into a "Bully".


"RE: Ami was always a Favorite"
Posted by Aruba on 04-05-08 at 08:51 PM
I believe you are right, Michel. The season before Palau (Vanuatu) Chris explained in a confessional (I think it was also F6, although it could have been F8...I can't remember) in detail how specifically the two involved in the tie are exempt along with the II holder and the others must draw the purple rock.

I think it's a horrible rule and apparently so do the players thus we don't see any ties until F4. I'm sure that's why that rule is still in effect...the producers don't want to see ties either.

"RE: Ami was always a Favorite"
Posted by iltarion on 04-05-08 at 11:25 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-05-08 AT 11:30 PM (EST)

I don't agree. Of course, the Steph- BJ tie-breaker was a different scenario; I don't think anyone needed to be reminded of that, but the fact still stands that EVERY tie-breaker since Marquesas has been a fire challenge. Every one. We have not seen the purple rock again. In Marquesas it was the F4 when the purple rock happened. We have had two F4 ties since then, and no purple rock. So, if the purple rock was removed for the F4, why would it still be the tie-breaker at F6 or beyond? Show me where the rule is written that it would be the purple rock. Or have someone involved with the show say that is the case. Then I would accept that as fact. Otherwise, I don't see the logic in removing it from the F4, but then keeping it for other times in the game.
And as it turns out, Ami was gone the following week anyway. So, obviously, even if it was the purple rock, Ami would have been better off to take a 50-50 shot versus playing it safe and being booted the following week.
Lisa wasn't in the alliance? Is Lisa a woman? Then, according to Ami, she was in the alliance. Even if she were not, she still was booted at that particular time for one reason only, because she got on Ami's bad side. So, yeah, Ami did have a bad side. No editing needed to show that.

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"RE: Ami was always a Favorite"
Posted by Aruba on 04-06-08 at 07:22 AM
Hi Iltarion...I don't know if you would consider Chris, the winner of Survivor: Vanuatu, "someone involved with the show." During that season when a TC tie was likely (either F6 or F8) he explained the purple rock scenario in a confessional. The two players who received the equal amount of votes would be exempt from drawing a stone as well as the holder of the II. All the rest would have to draw stones.

I will use the F4 from Palau as the logic of removing it from the F4. Tom Westman won the II so he was safe regardless. Ian and Jen both received two votes a piece. So by the rules they would be exempt from drawing stones too. That means Katie would be the only one drawing a stone??? It would make no sense so they had a firebuilding tiebreaker.

As was documented in Outback (and it also occurred once in Africa) a tribe went into TC knowing there would be a tie and would do nothing about it. After Africa they came up with this purple rock rule most likely to prevent players from using a tie vote as a strategy.

Yes Steph and BJ also had a tie-breaker earlier that season, but their tie vote had nothing to do with strategy...it was the rule that you are unable to vote for yourself so a tie was the ONLY outcome with the remaining two "SO-Long" tribemates. I guess the show could have said, Gee Steph and BJ...because you went up against Korrer (agruably the best tribe ever in Survivor history) we're going to "punish" both of you and make you draw a colored stone. But they decided on a firebuilding tie-breaker instead.

"RE: Ami was always a Favorite"
Posted by michel on 04-06-08 at 01:15 PM
I'll just add this: Probst said that using the purple rock at F4 in Marquesas was a mistake, that it wasn't the way the rock was intended to be used.

As far as people involved with the show, players are what matters since we have no rule books. Chris, Tom, Ian, Caryn, Katie and Jonathan all played thinking the purple rock was the tie breaker. I don't recall a single player saying a fire challenge would have broken a tie with 6 players at TC. So, we are left with 2 possibilities:

1- Those players know the rule and this discussion is over.

2- Those players assume the rock is the rule but aren't sure.

It really doesn't matter if option 2 is the right one because Ami would be in the same boat. She would also have to assume the rock is the tie-breaker. With the rock in play, forcing a tie at 6 is a bad idea for a voter that doesn't have immunity.

"RE: Ami was always a Favorite"
Posted by iltarion on 04-07-08 at 04:55 AM
That's wasn't the way the rock was intended to be used? hahaha... Whuh? Would it suck less if it were the F6 when it were used? I don't see how.
Aruba, Vanuatu was before Palua. So, since Ian and Tom thought it would be the purple rock, then it only stands to reason that Chris would have assumed the same thing the season before.
I would just point out again that we have not seen the purple rock since Season 4, and we are on Season 16, and in the meantime we have seen 3 fire challenges. If the purple rock is no longer good enough for F4, why would it be good enough for F6? It doesn't make sense to me.
However, michel is exactly right. Either the players know the rule, and it is indeed the puke rock, or they are as unsure about it as we are.
Either way, Ami is still better off with a 50% chance than she is with being booted the next episode!

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"RE: Ami was always a Favorite"
Posted by krismiss2us on 04-07-08 at 11:34 AM
nothing to do with the topic at hand, but am very curious: How do ya'll remember all these past episodes?
"RE: Ami was always a Favorite"
Posted by dreamerbeliever on 04-07-08 at 09:46 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-07-08 AT 10:17 PM (EST)

Because some of us are hardcore Survivor junkies.

Since season 1, episode 1, I have missed only 2 episodes when they originally aired on CBS, both in that doggy known as Thailand. Plus having all seasons and episodes on DVD or VHS helps the memory.

We are a subculture, it's more then just a silly TV show.

"yep!"
Posted by michel on 04-07-08 at 10:03 PM
Junkie is about right!
"RE: Ami was always a Favorite"
Posted by Aruba on 04-08-08 at 06:28 PM

>If the purple
>rock is no longer good
>enough for F4, why would
>it be good enough for
>F6? It doesn't make sense
>to me.

As stated in a prior post, the reason it is no good for F4 (with one having individual immunity) is because only one survivor would be drawing a stone...so that makes no sense. With a F6, three survivors would be drawing stones where one would be purple so that does make sense.

Why do you think Chris would go in detail about an "assumed" purple rock tie-breaker? And do you think arguably one of the best Survivors of all time (Tom Westman) would base his fate in the game on an "assumption" someone made the season prior??? Perhaps this is bias because I feel Tom Westman was the best Survivor ever to play the game, but I believe Tom is way too sharp and too savvy of a player to "assume" that fate.

The reason we haven't been the purple rock since season four is because with the twist in the rule that the two involved in the tie are exempt from drawing the stones it would deter any possibility of a tie (except F4 where it wouldn't apply). And up to now it has served its purpose.

"RE: Ami was always a Favorite"
Posted by ohmyheck on 04-05-08 at 07:00 PM
I think michel is right. Steph and BJ could not have done a purple rock tiebreaker for the same reason there could not have been a vote: Too few people. The purple rock, as I see it, cannot be used when there are less than four people eligible for the vote.

As for the perception of Ami as a villian, Probst has admitted that Ami was edited as a villian because with Chris as a winner, Vanuatu had no villian. I agree with michel's view of Ami trying to lead her alliance to the end, not this giant perception of Ami being a 'man-hater'. If she had been on a tribe with half men, she would have led her alliance, regardless of gender.

Lastly, perception is not fact, and it is not fair to call your opinion closer to the truth than someone else's opinion, because all it is is an opinion.

"RE: Ami was always a Favorite"
Posted by dreamerbeliever on 04-06-08 at 11:24 PM
Well said michel. Love Ami and found her exit to be truly touching.

"RE: Ami, a bag of tears and disappointment at the end"
Posted by Colonel Zoidberg on 04-05-08 at 01:43 PM
I was a little let down by Ami, and I set out to hate her from the start (look at the edit I gave her in All-Stars II - I avoided the man-hater edit, but wrecked her in just about every other way. I was an Ami-hater all the way.)

But to look at her exit here was a little sad. Here's someone who went down in a blaze of glory fighting with all she had in Vanuatu, crafting the ultimate tribal alliance (and if she told me that she had an all-female alliance because that was her original tribe, I'd believe her; it seemed like she had an all-Favorite alliance this season because that was her original tribe, and her lesbian man-crush on Ozzy was pretty amusing.)

And she actually cries at TC. Granted, Ozzy was rough on her, and that was a bit unnecessary, and he is kind of arrogant, but then again, most tough-as-nails Survivor veterans would have bucked up and smacked him down right there. Is Ozzy somehow untouchable? Are people that afraid of him? Why not just write him the check now? As much of an Ozzy fan and Ami-hater as I set out to be, if Ami had turned around and smacked Ozzy down at TC, I would have applauded her.

I guess I can't be too rough on her. The two toughest females in the post-All-Stars era to play the game both cried at TC, if I'm not mistaken (Steph in convincing Janu to wuit and Danni when Brandon was ditched.) But Steph did it as strategy and Danni thought she was boned, and then she recovered and played a masterful game.

I don't know if it's game stress, injuries, or what got to her. But her interview (the one here at RTVW) didn't indicate anything other than that she thinks Chet's a big baby (take your own diaper off before judging, Cusack.) And the lesbian man-crush on Ozzy and the apparent inappropriate fantasies about Amanda and Parvati are still there.

All in all, glad to have her gone before the jury.

"RE: Ami, a bag of tears and disappointment at the end"
Posted by Jims02 on 04-06-08 at 02:34 PM
In Vanuatu, I summarized the final episode before the merge. It resulted in Ami orchestrating the boot of her tribemate Lisa, keeping Rory around instead for another week. It basically came down to Ami getting really paranoid about Lisa coming after her, even though Lisa violently denied this allegation. In the editing, it was never really clear if Lisa did anything at all.

Somewhere out there, Lisa's probably laughing right now. At least in this case, it was clear that Ami did do a bit of conspiring against Ozzy.

"RE: Ami, a bag of tears and disappointment at the end"
Posted by PsychoKitty on 04-06-08 at 08:41 PM
I was really surprised by all the tears too and wish she could have "kept her dignity" a bit. But maybe the stress of being out there all those days pushed her over the edge. Or maybe she was just trying a ploy. But too bad her exit was so emotional, it kind of undermined her persona. Oh well! At least she tried some strategy - unlike many of the other players!

Not that I have an opinion one way or another ;)
Signature by tribephyl

"RE: Ami, a bag of tears and disappointment at the end"
Posted by garcor on 04-06-08 at 10:39 PM
would have preferred to see Ami vote for a tie previous TC but figure she wouldn't if she thought it would do no better than force a tie. (wonder if the player's are sure of the tie breaker?) probably figured she was safe till merge if she voted with Ozzy etc. might have been a cause for her tears realizing she wasn't. not sure if she was play-acting some or not. figure there was some acting to Ozzy's anger though. could see him preferring to keep another guy in the game, especially if the guy would owe his presence completely to Ozzy.
"RE: Ami, a bag of tears and disappointment at the end"
Posted by JessicaRN on 04-09-08 at 07:24 PM
In an interview in our local paper (Denver), Ami said that she tore her ACL and meniscus on the challenge that took out Jonathon, which is why she was wearing a brace the rest of the time. She had knee surgery last week. I think that I heard that she is a nanny to the mayor of Denver's kid.
"RE: Ami, a bag of tears and disappointment at the end"
Posted by michel on 04-09-08 at 07:45 PM
"she is a nanny to the mayor of Denver's kid"

That's very nice of Denver's kids to pay for a nanny to their mayor.

"RE: Ami, a bag of tears and disappointment at the end"
Posted by iltarion on 04-09-08 at 11:21 PM

I doubt we will ever see a challenge of that nature again.


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"RE: Ami, a bag of tears and disappointment at the end"
Posted by JoshInSGV on 04-11-08 at 05:29 PM
After reading the interview eith Ami, I think the reason that she cried at TC is because she genuinelly liked Ozzy and she had a close relationship with him. That would also explain why Ozzy felt so betrayed by Ami's double dealings. I liked Ami and I felt bad that she was eliminated in such a manner. She seems like a genuine person and I wish her well.