#1 – Because physical threats are primary targets 98% of the time. Such is the sad reality in the game of Survivor.

#2 – Here, Here to THAT!

#3 – The several upward cooch video shots beneath Ashley during the first IC does not help Jeff’s case. Granted Jeff was not the camera man, but as Executive Producer, the buck stops there. It would not be a sympathetic Jury if our pal Michel serves as Foreman. If he was contemplating charges against the Aruba Commission a few weeks back, the Michel-led Jury would deliver a quick “Guilty” verdict against Probst. And the sentencing would be just as swift. Strap Jiffy to a chair, place a TC Dinner in his lap, and flip the switch!

#4 – Devon would have really pissed Lauren off if he moved forward on Ashley’s pitch to blindside her best bud Ben. Fortunately Devon was “smart” enough to nix that plan (for now) and spared himself a brutal bitch-slapping.

#5 – That “master stroke” will be tough to top this season...but anything’s possible.

#6 – If Ashley’s “giggle” to the new catch phrase was a little “orgasmic,” then Chrissy’s reaction to a crummy veggie wrap might register a XXX rating.

#7 – Production was probably counting on a medi-vac or two. But since no ailments were near any “joints” *SNORT*, or no steroid users succumbed to heat exhaustion, the ‘ole double-episode bailed them out.

#1: You ask why JP and Aruba can't come up with a better explanation than he was a physical threat but there's another possibility: Lauren and JP had been seen as a power couple at the start of the season so I'd say Ben wanted to test Ashley's loyalty by pointing to JP first or Ashley wanted to prove she was not part of a power couple by suggesting JP. Editing wanted to leave us in the dark so they cut all the talk about their final pick.

#2: Joe contributed more than most to this season's enjoyement. I'm really disappointed in the both of you for not commenting on his classy exit..

#3: If Ashley or Chrissy press charges against Jiffy then we'll talk but they seemed very happy with the way Jeff handled the...situation. Aruba, I've always been for "innocent until proven guilty" and due process.

#4: I'm once more disappointed in the fact that neither of you pointed to Devon's extremely brilliant and completely original plan to plant Ben as a spy. That was the move of the season.

#5: Yes, when Lauren doesn't have to do a thing but stand or sit, she isn't bad. I'll have you note that Baylor Wilson of San Juan del Sur, not exactly a challenge wiz, won the first iteration of this challenge. And again, the really smart part of the discussion came from Devon.

WHOOOOOAAAAA NELLIE...Easy does it!

You didn't give me a chance to post my rankings. As a matter of fact I was typing up this week's ranking while you replied on this thread and I posted those rankings before I had a chance to come back to this thread.

When you read my rankings your disappointment pertaining to Devon and Joe should switch to rare agreement.

Sorry, but bullying your geekyist tribe mate on Day One, verbally attacking a girl by erroneously referring to her as a "goat," and using Ben's service to country as a low blow is NOT "enjoyment" in my book. But hey, different strokes for different folks.

JP being targeted as a physical threat is not an "explanation;" it was SPECIFICALLY STATED by the majority alliance during their decision-making process. And the final vote confirmed the ultimate decision.
YOUR "explanation" is a fan-fiction theory conveniently camoflauged by the all-unproven Edit Card.

Come on now...as much as you don't like Lauren, her RC win involved a heck of a lot more than just "standing and sitting." Accomplishing what she did with her feet faster than the other players deserves a little more props.

LAST EDITED ON 11-30-17 AT 10:41 PM (EST)

#1. If any explanation could be considered reasonable, that might be it. But still, why JP when Chrissy was available and HI-less? Her strategic thinking and smartness (OK, that was on purpose) has been mentioned by these idjits more than once.

#2. What caused enjoyment for you was like needles in the eye for me. And you do realize that your approval is not exactly what I live my life for?

#3. You both may have missed the underlying meaning in regard to current events. I didn't present it clearly enough, I guess.

#4. See Number 2. But both his plans were impressive.

#5. She won. Twice. A possibility that you would have derided at length earlier in the season. And simply standing or standing is all anyone had to do, but they didn't, and she did. And you seem to have missed the herculean effort she made pushing the blocks in one of the RC's. That wasn't just sitting or standing.

The Rebel Alliance™ of four was Laurens idea, and the spy plan that was Devon's was a sub-plot. And a very good one, I was impressed by him even though when he explained it it was like listening to a 12YO making a Spy vs. Spy backyard plan with his playmates. Also very well carried out by Ben and orgasmed to by Ashley.

Lauren's plan would have worked IMO without the Devon's spy plan, but it wouldn't have been nearly as entertaining and it did increase the odds.

#1: If they were still worried about Ashley wanting to play with JP, this was the best way to test her loyalty. Ben might have also wanted to keep Chrissy around in case something went wrong.

#2: But you seem to need my approval... especially regarding Lauren.

#3: No, I got your underlying meaning but I think there's enough public condemnations going around.

#5: The list of players who won mickey-mouse challenges is very long. I included Baylor just to show how little impressed I am with these challenges.

As for the rebel alliance, it was 4 players going up against 9, at least one of which had an idol, so it wasn't immediately applicable. And with the animosity between Joe and Ben, the odds would have been good to see Mike and Joe run to Chrissy and Ryan to foil the plan. Remember what Joe said at the merger: Including Ben in the Healers' plan was dumb. He may have dcided not to vote with Ben this time. Making it look like Ben was on the outs is what really made the plan work. And it worked for TWO Councils

#1. Weak reasoning. Clearly Chrissy should still have been the most important target.

#2. Inference is not implication. Big difference.

#3. Good.

#5. That's not all it shows.

4 against 9? (Check your math) It was 4 (Rebel Alliance™) against 2 (the Coconut Comedy Troupe) against 3 (The leftovers). Ben actually voted for Mike, so he actually negated one of the Rebel Alliance™ votes and needed both of the Coconut Comedy boy's votes. Which, fortunately for him, he got. Still, the overall plan was Lauren's. Not to diminish the ingenuity of Devon's contribution (I was thrilled by it too), but it was a sub plot in support of the overall plan, and the fact that it worked perfectly due to Ben's acting job assured success for Lauren's Rebel Alliance™

Also, the Commission is being notified about your careless and willful omission of the ™ when using the legally protected phrase Rebel Alliance™. I will be requesting all moneys derived from said misuse as well as 3X Damages and lawyer's fee reimbursements in addition to a new bicycle.

While Chrissy was a more important target for you sitting on your sofa, she clearly, wasn't the target for those playing the game. If that makes them idiots then remember, you see it as your gal's plan! I'm trying to explain why Chrissy wasn't the target and, for me, that means Ben and Devon guided the decision away from their former number ones while forcing Ashley to show JP wasn't her number one.

#5: I don't know what you are reading in my words but I am really only saying that winning a Survivor challenge isn't much of an accomplishment. I'm not Aruba, I've never put much weight in the Individual Immunity challenges until we get down to the last 2 or three.

4 is smaller than 2+3. The 2 and the 3 could have joined forces so they needed to be kept in the dark. Devon's plan did just that. And what exactly was Lauren's plan? She simply picked the people to go on reward but those four had already "Come Together" when Ben and Devon agreed on the F3. Then Lauren talked about getting rid of one of the three right away but tell me what difference did it make? Had Joe gone first then JP could still have been voted out next. They could even have waited for all Healers to be voted out. Maybe future events will show that this move was made too early. This alliance is based on deceit so how can they keep trust between each other?

LAST EDITED ON 12-03-17 AT 01:27 PM (EST)

I'm seeing it as I hope I would if I were playing the game. Again, you're making personal inferences, this time about me instead of about the person you seem to hold a grudge toward and refuse to give the credit she deserves. I can only assume that you are making this personal because I refuse to follow you down your misinformed path.

And, don't delude yourself, you're not trying to "explain why Chrissy wasn't the target", you're simply trying to make be believe that your guess is correct, unlikely as it seems. Even you, sitting on your throne, have to concede that you don't really "know" the reason for all this, and that you are simply speculating.

Chrissy has proven to be the most dangerous player, and with the choice between her, Ryan, and JP, she clearly should have been the target, and JP should have been last on their list. He just wasn't a threat, the worst case he offered was to win a critical IC and make it to F3. And no matter who from the RA™ he sat beside, at least as things stood at his final TC, he had the least chance of winning. So he just wasn't a threat. His boot could have come whenever, or never. If anyone could thwart the Rebel Alliance™ plans and convince one or more of them to change sides, it would be Chrissy. Or to a lesser (almost non-existant) degree, Ryan.

Ashley had been friendly with JP earlier in the game, but she actually voted with her allies to boot JP, showing just how tenuous that friendliness was.

And to spell out the meaning for #5, it was that you response indicates how predisposed you are in minimizing Lauren's accomplishments simply because you initially made fun of her appearance and do not feel that you cannot back down from those statements now. I recognize that you would probably find a way to diminish her even if she won the Mill. Probably blaming it on some lucky fluke, or on the producer's secret plan, or on the glint from Jeff's eyes blinding the jury. Whatever it might be, it will be that somehow she didn't deserve the win.

She won two Challenges that you minimize, and she used a reward that she won to form an alliance that upended Chrissy's game at the perfect time when Chrissy was vulnerable that you also refuse to credit her for. Yet, you still have her last in Aruba's rankings.

Well, it's certainly your right to your opinion, but you really cannot reasonably deny that you have a personal agenda.

.

LAST EDITED ON 12-03-17 AT 05:09 PM (EST)

>I'm seeing it as I hope
>I would if I were
>playing the game. Again, you're
>making personal inferences, this time
>about me instead of about
>the person you seem to
>hold a grudge toward and
>refuse to give the credit
>she deserves. I can only
>assume that you are making
>this personal because I refuse
>to follow you down your
>misinformed path.

Your logic is faulty here: First, YOU made it personal by stating how YOU would have played the game. YOU are the one saying that the alliance made a big mistake in booting JP instead of Chrissy. I'm trying to explain why they did so how am I not giving credit to anyone in that alliance?

>And, don't delude yourself, you're not
>trying to "explain why Chrissy
>wasn't the target", you're simply
>trying to make be believe
>that your guess is correct,
>unlikely as it seems. Even
>you, sitting on your throne,
>have to concede that you
>don't really "know" the reason
>for all this, and that
>you are simply speculating.

I am not saying that my guess is correct but one thing is correct: JP was voted out, NOT Chrissy. Instead of bellyaching over a supposed mistake, I try to explain the tactic.

>Chrissy has proven to be the
>most dangerous player, and with
>the choice between her, Ryan,
>and JP, she clearly should
>have been the target...

She wasn't. So maybe YOU should rank Lauren last for making that mistake!!

>JP should have been last
>on their list. He just
>wasn't a threat, the worst
>case he offered was to
>win a critical IC and
>make it to F3. And
>no matter who from the
>RA™ he sat beside, at
>least as things stood at
>his final TC, he had
>the least chance of winning.
>So he just wasn't a
>threat. His boot could have
>come whenever, or never.

The plan for the four was to knock out ONE member of the threesome then switch back and knock out the two remaining Healers. That meant they'd be down to Final 6 before returning their attention to their two former allies. By Final 6, JP would have been only 3 IC wins away from F3 and even if he couldn't win the vote, he'd still be taking someone's seat and the foursome already has a seating arrangement problem without letting an uninvited guest crash their party. At F6, if the four is solid, JP is indeed a much bigger threat to crash that party than Chrissy or Ryan!

>If anyone could thwart the Rebel
>Alliance™ plans and convince one
>or more of them to
>change sides, it would be
>Chrissy. Or to a lesser
>(almost non-existant) degree, Ryan.

The Rebel Alliance's plan can only be thwarted by someone from inside the alliance. That's why I think Ben wanted to keep Chrissy while Devon wanted to keep Ryan. Neither was quite sure of this new alliance so they wanted options. Of course, that's something neither could admit. If all four don't give Chrissy (or Ryan) an ear, she can't do a thing.

>Ashley had been friendly with JP
>earlier in the game, but
>she actually voted with her
>allies to boot JP, showing
>just how tenuous that friendliness
>was.

Exactly!! She did have to prove that her friendliness wouldn't interfere, didn't she? Only the vote is truth out there so she couldn't convince her new allies that she wasn't part of a power couple before voting against JP.

>And to spell out the meaning
>for #5, it was that
>you response indicates how predisposed
>you are in minimizing Lauren's
>accomplishments simply because you initially
>made fun of her appearance
>and do not feel that
>you cannot back down from
>those statements now.

I do not not feel that I cannot back down (!!) Lauren is fat but most of the fun I poked at her came from your line of "it isn't a big thing" which it seems is actually becoming a huge thing for you.

I've always minimized the importance of winning individual challenges in Survivor. It goes all the way back to Darrah in Pearl Islands and she certainly wasn't a "big thing"! I also say that you should never win Individual rewards, only team ones. So I am not focusing on Lauren, just saying that her wins don't impress me.

>I recognize
>that you would probably find
>a way to diminish her
>even if she won the
>Mill. Probably blaming it on
>some lucky fluke, or on
>the producer's secret plan, or
>on the glint from Jeff's
>eyes blinding the jury. Whatever
>it might be, it will
>be that somehow she didn't
>deserve the win.

Now who is making it personal?! First, let's wait to see if and how she wins. My problem with Lauren is that she is extremely boring: Before making that swing chair, she hadn't done a thing around camp, she doesn't go fishing, she doesn't look for idols, she doesn't make jokes and her way of talking is putting me to sleep.

>She won two Challenges that you
>minimize, and she used a
>reward that she won to
>form an alliance that upended
>Chrissy's game at the perfect
>time when Chrissy was vulnerable
>that you also refuse to
>credit her for. Yet, you
>still have her last in
>Aruba's rankings.

I explained why I put her last in Aruba's rankings. I also believe the alliance was already formed before that reward.

>Well, it's certainly your right to
>your opinion, but you really
>cannot reasonably deny that you
>have a personal agenda.

My only personal agenda is to have fun with this show. Debating with you is part of that fun so thank you!

An other mishmash of weak reasoning and circular logic. Especially in regard to Chrissy not being targeted and Lauren's placement.

Chrissy was the biggest threat to the any of the Rebel Alliance™, both to the group as whole and to each RA™ individual to win the Mill. They certainly seemed to think JP was the biggest athletic challenge target, and that's probably why he was targeted, but putting aside the fact that the final IC's are typically endurance types where he hasn't been as dominate as Lauren, even if that was a logical reason to target him, he simply did not pose a threat to any of the Rebel Alliance™ at F3. Whereas Chrissy was the the only one of the three with enough savvy to break up the RA™, and if at F3, to actually win the Mill.

So I ask you, is it more important to boot a athletic challenge threat who poses the least threat to winning the Mill, or to enhance your chances to win the Mill by booting the biggest possible threat to that win? For me, either as a contestant (imaginary), or sitting on a sofa, the answer is clear. Chrissy. I like her game play, she is very clever and slyly manipulative. Which is why they should have booted her instead of JP. The ultimate goal is to win the money. No other bias needed.

As to Lauren, my gosh man, your bias is so blatant, because in your own words, you thought she should be placed mid pack but you placed her last because of what you thought might happen in the future. Wow. Just Wow. Just put her as permanent last (as you seem to have already done) because you can always imagine a future scenario where she loses. So far, week after week, that hasn't happened, but I'm sure that won't stop you.

Right now Lauren's odds are 7 to one, odds which are made worse because Chrissy is still in the game. 7 to 1 is a bad bet. So it will not be a surprise to anyone if she doesn't overcome those long odds. If so, I know you will enjoy your smug "I told you Lauren would lose" dance. If she goes out this week, she will still have made it farther than you would have given her credit for in the beginning when you derided her for being fat, and no doubt you will come up with some really offensive and imaginary reasoning why she was booted.

.

I don't know what you want from me. In spoilers before the show aired, I voted against Ryan because I thought he'd be their target. I was wrong so I've gotten over it and tried to figure out why JP.

In Aruba's thread, you write the following about Lauren: "She took charge and successfully planned and implemented and kept her troops in line for the Master Stroke of the Season so far", yet here you say that booting JP instead of Chrissy was a big mistake. That's the flawed logic: Master stroke and big mistake don't usually cohabit.

Also, I ask how Chrissy could break the alliance if no one listens to her? Put a gun to their head?! Even the craftiest player cannot crack an alliance that is solid. A strong challenge performer can. Just look at Mike in Worlds Apart or even Terry in Panama who forced Casaya to turn on each other earlier than they wanted. While JP hadn't won individual immunities, he singlehandedly won enough tribal competitions to scare them all.

Even with that, I suggest that there were ulterior motives in keeping Chrissy and Ryan and even that doesn't satisfy you.

In Aruba's thread, I wrote that I would have placed Lauren third if, like the previous week, I had rated them in order of Contenders but I didn't rank them in order of contenders because I'm really not sure how that should go. If the game is about to flip again then Lauren isn't third, is she?! I ranked them in order of how they entertain me so of course it's my personal preferences. It's not that I have anything against your dear Lauren it's that she hasn't given me anything worth noting.

I take offense at your last remark: "If so, I know you will enjoy your smug "I told you Lauren would lose" dance..." If you look at my record, I don't gloat even when I've called winners after 3 or 4 episodes through editing analysis. It's fun to be right but no more than that. If Lauren is voted out, I really hope you'll read my comments in Aruba's thread.