URL: http://community.realitytvworld.com/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/rtvw2/community/dcboard.cgi
Forum: DCForumID57
Thread Number: 4527
[ Go back to previous page ]

Original Message
"Antonia's debt all due to Daddy issues??"

Posted by snowflake2 on 05-01-06 at 02:30 PM
Antonia is being encouraged to believe that all of her financial issues are a result of her Daddy "abandoning" her. She's being told, in effect: Explore your relationship with Daddy=Heal your financial problems. The idea is that Antonia's father always gave her material things; now that he's out of the picture, she feels compelled to give them to herself, running up debt in the process.

Do y'all agree with this Daddy angle, or would you rather see her acquire more practical skills that would allow her to become more financially responsible...meeting with debt specialists, learning how to budget, determining the difference between necessities and frivolities, acquiring regular employment, etc?



Table of contents

Messages in this discussion
"RE: Antonia's debt all due to Daddy issues??"
Posted by Juliejo on 05-01-06 at 02:48 PM
There goes' Iguana again everything is daddys' fault. I do not agree with this angle at all.
She is a spoiled brat who has been caudled all of her life and has never taken responsibility for her own behavior. She needs to learn to budget, throw away her credidt cards and see a debt specialists or she will spend her life in debt. Her daddy being in prison has nothing to do with her debts. I do think she has some issues with her father but I dont think this is compelling her to run up debt and reward herself by giving herself material things. She said in the begining she feel entitled to whatever she wants. NOT... grow up Antonia.. Get a job... Work for what you want and you maight feel some pride and accomplishment in it. /You will also grow up in the process. We have a generation of kids coming up who feel entitled.. because their parents have given them whatever they want, whenever they want it and they think that is the way life is. Antonia is a trip and I will enjoy watching her progress. Laughing at her everyday and her immaturity.
PEACE

"RE: Antonia's debt all due to Daddy issues??"
Posted by Zoey on 05-01-06 at 03:00 PM
When I first started watching today, I thought "Jeez, does everything have to be blamed on the father in all women's lives?"

As I thouth about it more though, I didn't feel like it was about blame but realizing where Antonia started developing these patterns.

While thinking this, I also wondered if it was important to know where the behavior came from or if it's just important to fix it. Then I wondered if it could be fixed without knowing the root of the problem. Then I succumed to "Iyanla is far more wise than me and probably knows what she's doing". *shrugs*

SnowFlake,

I feel that this is just stage one, a foundation, and that your second paragraph is what she really needs to work on and that it will be the hardest for her because it will take the most out of her. I think she will be a tough nut to crack. It will be interesting to see what she can learn.


"RE: Antonia's debt all due to Daddy issues??"
Posted by Baxtera on 05-01-06 at 03:06 PM
Time will tell. I've met plenty of kids with her attitude and entitlement with intact two parent families who have tried unfortunatley to give their kids too much. I think IV is hyper focused on the Daddy issue but I'm not sure it's the reason for the spending.

"RE: Antonia's debt all due to Daddy issues??"
Posted by newgirl1 on 05-04-06 at 10:06 AM
I like Antonia because she isn't so quick to accept the process and everything Iyanla tells her. I am always amazed at how easily led these women are and how they will accept everything the life coaches throw at them as fact. At least she challenges what Iyanla says. I do think Iyanla is so quick to do the whole you didn't have a father thing and that is why you are so messed up. I also think that some of the stuff that the life coaches do gets a little too close to psychotherapy which isn't the role of a life coach. I saw life coaches being interviewed on the today show and Al Roker asked them the difference between a life coach and a therapist and the life couch said that a therapist deals with healing the past and a life coach helps to create a more successful future. Those words always stick with me when I see Rhonda and Iyanla doing their pseudo-psychology on those women.

"RE: Antonia's debt all due to Daddy issues??"
Posted by Twinkles on 05-01-06 at 04:08 PM
I read a book a long time ago about women with shopping addictions and absent fathers who buy to fill the gap. It made sense at the time in the examples given.

To stop the habit, sure you need new financial skills but first you need to heal some wounds. I don't see it as an either/or question. I think it's both. There can be a cause and first you address the pain and you can soothe the damage and then you can more effectively move on to practical current implementations of how to manage your money.


"RE: Antonia's debt all due to Daddy issues??"
Posted by MizJazmine on 05-01-06 at 05:35 PM
Twinkles...that's my take on it too. After all Antonia was the one who used a dollar bill to represent her father when she first came into the house. So there is some kind of connection between Antonia, her father, and money.

I think Iyanla is actually doing both practical and emotional work with Antonia. I'm not seeing a problem here....


"RE: Antonia's debt all due to Daddy issues??"
Posted by eire_heart74 on 05-01-06 at 03:18 PM
LAST EDITED ON 05-01-06 AT 03:19 PM (EST)

My concern is with someone like her, she just going to keep this as her ongoing excuse for her behavior. Oh I'm in debt because he's in jail. I don't work because my dads in jail, I don't take resposiblity because he's in jail. Just like she's setting her up for an easy out.

The show as of late is just being a way for all of them to keep on doing what they have been doing with some psycho babble thrown in to justify their actions !


"RE: Antonia's debt all due to Daddy issues??"
Posted by beautyboyknockout on 05-01-06 at 04:15 PM
When she first came to the house and met with the author she said she was in debt $24 grand, and today Iyanla said her debt is $41 grand, anyone else notice that??
Obviously she spends to fill up an empty void somewhere in her self, to make her feel better. I hope she doesn't take the easy way out and declare bankruptcy. If she works hard for 3years and gets the interest lowered, she can be debt free for life. She needs to take responsibility for her actions.

"RE: Antonia's debt all due to Daddy issues??"
Posted by snowflake2 on 05-01-06 at 04:21 PM
Wow! Iyanla changed it to $41,000 today?? Did she get Antonia mixed up with Allison?



"RE: Antonia's debt all due to Daddy issues??"
Posted by EMTBGRL on 05-01-06 at 04:29 PM
*sigh* I do not believe that ONE factor or person is responsible for another person's bad habits (regardless of what that "habit" is) Do we learn bad habits from our parents? Sure. Do we learn GOOD habits from our parents? (even if they are bad parents?) Arguably, yes. At what stage in life do we tell someone, "Look, you might have spending issues because money was taught all wrong to you at home, BUT now that you are an adult, and it is your money, YOU are the one choosing to be a financial disaster."

I understand exploring the root cause of a problem to fix it. I also think this one is off-base for Antonia. At this point? I think the blame-finger needs to be pointed at Antonia. The point should not be how and when this started in her life. Antonia needs to accept that she's a financial disaster, not her father (though he may be one) HER, Antonia, has spending and entitlement issues. Period.

I am not interested in whacking daddy dearest over the head with a stick. I am interested in Antonia being taught how to get her life, finances, and sense of entitlement under control. So, yes, I think Antonia could be better served with learning about retirement plans, delayed gratification and entitlement issues.

But, where oh where would be the conflama? That's the problem. IMHO that's why Daddy is brought into this story. That's too bad for Antonia.


"RE: Antonia's debt all due to Daddy issues??"
Posted by Baxtera on 05-01-06 at 04:40 PM
IV doesn't like practical. I was really waiting for her to pop one of those balloons and make it Daddy's fault some how. She likes drama not practical exercises like money management and learning about finances. You watch Antonia will be out there in some vodoo ceremony soon screaming to the universe to solve her financial problems. Mabye she and Allison can be roomates in NC when the show is over.

"RE: Antonia's debt all due to Daddy issues??"
Posted by Zoey on 05-01-06 at 05:02 PM
I just hope that, either way, she can come to a point where she will accept responsibility for the mess SHE has created. While her father may have created a pattern, she has continued on this path and the only one who can save her is HER (with some help from SO).

In Antonia's case, I think this needs to be hammered into her.

Actually, I think if this was someone else (with a less defiant and self-entitled attitude), this may not even be so much of a question on people's minds. But with Antonia's attitude and feelings of entitlement, I think the thought of placing blame elsewhere will seem to prohibit her progress more than help it.

I guess I'd have to agree that the most important thing for Antonia is her own involment in her own mess.


"RE: Antonia's debt all due to Daddy issues??"
Posted by Twinkles on 05-01-06 at 05:48 PM
Let say that Antonia's Dad has nothing to do with why she grew up feeling she had to spend and overspend. I'll go with that for a minute.

What I think is very valuable is pointing out to her that she has no compassion for people who can't "get it together" yet she expects people to pay for her and accept her. I thought this was a highlight of the gripes she had with Cassie, actually. I imagined what would happen if Antonia found herself pregnant and no one bailed her out financially? That phrase "you couldn't get it together for your son?" would then become her issue.

This may be a way to address Antonia's denial about her own incompetence. She's so harsh about other people's weaknesses. She might separate drugs and alcohol as different from her own problems but I don't think she's far from simply saying she can't afford to have a kid (if she were in her father's or Cassie's earlier shoes). At this point she can't afford to have herself. Heck, even employers aren't hiring her because they judge you based on your credit record.

And the only reason she can't afford it is because she's become overindebted. Well there's that and also refusing to grow up for whatever other reasons. I really don't feel like I know much about her to speculate why she's so lacksadaisacal (sp)

People can have a variety of reactions what appears the same situation. I went to college with a girl who dreamt of being a veteranarian. We were both broke and it was an expensive school. She wouldn't take a dime in loans though. Her dad was alcoholic, deadbeat, and spent time in jails. She clearly carried a huge chip on her shoulder and perservered in very technical, difficult majors - but more Engineering type degrees and multiple majors.

She had nothing material, no one gave her anything, but she didn't run up credit cards and wasn't lazy for a minute. She was stunningly pretty with naturally pale blonde hair and blue eyes but never played on her looks to get anywhere, either. It was like the opposite of Antonia. I lost touch with her but saw in our alumni publication that just... (drumroll please)... opened Veteranary practice near the university.

So maybe the difference - just speculating here - has to do with what a young woman lets herself get away with doing? At some point you pull things together and you choose to take an easy road or you don't.


"RE: Antonia's debt all due to Daddy issues??"
Posted by SeasonedRefinement on 05-01-06 at 06:28 PM
LAST EDITED ON 05-01-06 AT 06:30 PM (EST)

We've all laughed with and at Antonia while watching her try to convince Iyanla, the audience, and herself, that she is actually a classy woman who NEEDS to be dressed in the best the designers have to offer. I think Antonia actually wants to believe that - but a lot of her noise is about playing to the cameras and making herself memorable. She wants to be seen as an incorrigible, sassy young woman.

Is Antonia's out of control spending her father's fault? Well, Iyanla may think so, but Antonia's creditors will only care about that connection if daddy co-signed for any of her debt, lol.

Iyanla doesn't do financial workshops, so she has to address this from an emotional/spiritual place. But that's OK because Iyanla seems to believe that every woman loves and needs "her daddy" - whether she knows it or not. Antonia's father's absence and "box of money gift" are probably elements that have gone into forming Antonia's self-concept, but are they the primary factors? If not, Iyanla may spend a lot of time addressing issues that won't help this girl with her lack of self-control. While I don't think that Antonia's father is completely irrelevant, I'm just not convinced that Antonia's entitlement problems begin and end with her father. So, let's hope that Iyanla augments her coaching with some serious financial education from a pro.

I have to say, there is one thing that sets Antonia apart from all of the other HG's. Where Iyanla is concerned, Antonia actually says the things that a lot of people are thinking. It's usually pretty obvious that a HG is confused or just disagrees with something Iyanla does or says - their facial expressions usually give that away. But not too many of them actually say what they're thinking, so this is a little more interesting.

And whoever picked it up was right...Iyanla almost doubled Antonia's debt today, LOL.

*******************************************


"RE: Antonia's debt all due to Daddy issues??"
Posted by Baxtera on 05-01-06 at 08:02 PM
Antonia is very quick to see the fault in others but fails to see any faults in herself as evidenced by her comments to Cassie about not being able to get it together on her own but the reality that even with the SO help she hasn't gotten it togehter either.

I do get a good laugh watching her resist IV because it's always bothered me that these women climb right into the swamp without so much as a word of complaint or request for an explanation from IV. Complaince like that always concerns me. I don't think we'll be seeing that from Antonia.

That being said Antonia's problems with or without Daddy aren't going to satisfy the debt she has just like crying to the Universe didn't solve Allison's entitlement/money issues. It requires an understanding of income vs. spending. You can believe your entitled to better but that only should motivate you to getting a better job, training for a better career or motivation to improve in some way to earn more. It isn't about deserving more so you spend more.


"RE: Antonia's debt all due to Daddy issues??"
Posted by Sues on 05-01-06 at 09:08 PM
I agree with the idea that it needs to be both. Little girls are very much affected by the deeds of their Daddy's.

She also said that she wasn't going to use that as an excuse, so I think she gets the responsibility thing more than her actions say. She just needs to figure out how to curb her youthful wants for her maturing needs. Oh, and I LOVE that she says what she feels...she may end up my favorite house guest this year!

So far, I like Iyanla's approach..tear it all down and rebuild it. Makes sense to me and since Antonia is still so young, it's a great time to do so...now if they end her journey with some serious debt counseling, I will be happy!


"RE: Antonia's debt all due to Daddy issues??"
Posted by DeltaDarkStar on 05-01-06 at 10:20 PM
Since we're blaming parents for their adult children's bad financial decisions, can we blame the parent who was in Antonia's life -- her mom. I don't care where daddy was or wasn't, as a mother suposedly wanting to see her child have the best, she should have taken the initiative for teaching her child fiscal responsiblity. No, Antonia, your daddy didn't turn you into the "entitled" princess you think you are. Your mommy started that train to rolling, and you've kept it going. That said, I do like seeing that you at least question everything now. That's the first step to becoming financially sound.

DeltaDarkStar


"RE: Antonia's debt all due to Daddy issues??"
Posted by VelvetElegance on 05-01-06 at 11:14 PM
No one can deny the profound impact the loss of Antonia's father has had on her life. Clearly it's a mess. I was a bit amused today when Iyanla thought she was going to elicit that ephiphanal moment where the woman breaks down and Iyanla is there to mother them. Antonia wasn't having any of that today. She's a pretty tought cookie. BUt I fear Iyanla wil only escalate in her ridiculousness in an effort to break Antonia down. Only then, will Iyanla feel her point has been sufficiently made.

"RE: Antonia's debt all due to Daddy issues??"
Posted by Lanna42 on 05-02-06 at 04:02 PM
Oh, and I LOVE
>that she says what she
>feels...she may end up my
>favorite house guest this year!

She is already hands down my favorite HG this year for that reason!In the true spirit breaking tradition of Iyanla's exercises I'm sure this won't last for long.But we'll enjoy it for as long as Antonia can keep it up.LOL. She is immature but I can forgive that.As for Daddy being the reason behind her debt even Antonia isn't buying that story.



"RE: Antonia's debt all due to Daddy issues??"
Posted by PanchoVilla on 05-02-06 at 07:01 PM
Shes no better than christie blaming her family for her drug problem, Jodie blaming her dad for being fat, Niambi blaming her dad for her inability to date decent guys, whine whine whine,, blame it on someone else,,,

"RE: Antonia's debt all due to Daddy issues??"
Posted by ChristinaJB on 05-02-06 at 00:55 AM
I think it is possible to try to 'fill yourself up' by buying things to make you feel special, pretty, good about yourself if you are feeling empty inside from a lack of love. Parental love? Self love? HMM. My brother is a male Antonia, only he is in his 40's and had two, maybe three bankruptcies, con'd every member of our family out of hundreds of dollars and another one out of hundreds of thousands of dollars. That being said, unless she makes the connection in her heart and head, it won't stop, it will get worse because it is an addiction (oh here we go again, right?).

Because we had the same lovely mother that was an alcoholic, I have had the same problems, but was always too frightened to get too far into debt, and snapped out of it. I've also had counseling too, so I dunno. One of us had to be the 'responsible one', so I tried my best.

At some point though, Antonia has to take and say the R word - RESPONSIBILITY. She still hasn't done that. It's the world's fault in general that poor Antonia isn't living the way she deserves! NO fair! I don't wanna work! They sent me the cards - they should've known better! I'm too pretty! UGH - I'm going upstairs and throwing myself on my bed like I'm 10!

I'm gonna need that bucket that poster Boots was using in another thread! HELP!
BLAAAAAAAAAAAEKKKKKKKKKKKKGUH!


"RE: Antonia's debt all due to Daddy issues??"
Posted by Boots12565 on 05-04-06 at 02:03 AM
*******Passes christinaJB the BUCKET*************Im agreeing with Ya!!PEACE

"RE: Antonia's debt all due to Daddy issues??"
Posted by ChristinaJB on 05-04-06 at 10:42 AM
;o) BURP *** (
I feel better now, thanks hon!

"RE: Antonia's debt all due to Daddy issues??"
Posted by elgin on 05-02-06 at 12:21 PM
Sure there is a PART of this in the daddy thing but the rest is total irresponsibility and lack of respect for others. It's like Jill with theft, we are all supposed to pitch in and pay for others who don't want to pay either by theft of outright taking or for theft by credit card fraud. Keep making excuses. People wake up.

"RE: Antonia's debt all due to Daddy issues??"
Posted by DCRealityWatcher on 05-02-06 at 09:55 PM
We often repeat or react to our parents' ways without realizing it, and that includes how we handle money. That's not "blaming" - it's seeing what you've learned so you can decide if it's a good or bad influence and make changes accordingly. Suze Orman and Olivia Mellan (a psychologist and recovering overspender who's been on "Oprah") both address the emotions of finance AND look at the practical side. I have found their books' exercises really revealing. I get annoyed at IV's Daddy focus too, but in this case I think she's right. I just don't agree with pushing Antonia to meet her dad, if that's what's coming.

"RE: Antonia's debt all due to Daddy issues??"
Posted by Cleverone on 05-03-06 at 08:28 PM
SF....I have to agree that it's a little of the father issue and a lot of Antonia's irresponsibility...and let's not forget to throw in the parent who was present thruout her life and should have taught this young lady financial responsibilities...."dear old mom".

Antonia set the precedent concerning her father when she displayed the "dollar bill" from day one and expressed that her father started her off with the desire for "material things"....this came out of her mouth and should be addressed because she I-S using this as an excuse of sort for her craving for the finer things in life, however, her father isn't the sole blame here because she had a mother and grand mother ( which is all that some people have and they manage to become responsible) who S-P-O-I-L-E-D her rotten. Her sense of entitlement was obviously encouraged or they were too inept to deal with her tantrums to the point of allowing her to believe that she is entitled to do as she pleases. I don't care how many parents were present during her early years, she should have been taught the value of a dollar and allowed to work for what she wants before she was turned loose on society. There definitely is alot of room for blame here...primarily, Antonia for lacking will power to control her spending.

I do believe the father issue would be a wise thing to explore because of Antonia's efforts to put blame on him and also because she's soooo resistant to it...which speaks volumes about there being some underlying current of a larger issue than what she has revealed so far.

Ultimately, Antonia has to step up and pay the piper and she needs to handle whatever the issues are while she's offered an avenue to do so...if she doesn't she's subject to repeat the same pattern in the future.

Obviously, she's beyond the age of spankings, but (IMO) she could use a good a$$ whipping...she's so disrespectful to people who are trying to help her after she came to them asking for help....I don't find her amusing at all ...I think it's ridiculous that she's reach the age that she is and is no more concerned about her own future than she is and considers everything a big joke...well, Antonia, the last laugh may be on you.

MizJazmine, DeltaDarkStar and Zoey...I agree with your assessment as well...Antonia is responsible for her actions and must clean up her own mess thru whatever means are necessary and if it must be hammered into her, then so be it.

****************************
"I walk in my own shoes..."
****************************


"RE: BTW..."
Posted by snowflake2 on 05-05-06 at 10:18 PM
Whatever happened to Antonia's credit card bracelets?? They disappeared...did I miss where Iyanla told her she didn't have to wear them anymore?