It seems that Outwitting meant nothing this year. Those that love the players who win challenges should be happy that a jury completely disregarded the strategic game and simply used a score card to see who had the most IC wins and awarded her the million.

I believe that the jury is always right but a stupid twist removed a juror who certainly had it right. I really liked Neal's final words and I wonder how much influence he would have carried if he had been in the final discussion.

As for the jurors that actually had a vote, I respect Nick a lot for recognizing the best player.

I can understand Julia's dislike of Aubry. Those two never got along after Aubry wrote her name only to cross it out in order to boot Peter.

Debbie and Cydney however are a different story. They knew how much effort Aubry put in the game so not voting for her makes them look petty. Cydney played side-by-side with Aubry so if she thinks Aubry didn't deserve the win then she's admitting that she didn't deserve it either. It's pretty ridiculous to be upset that Aubry voted her out at F4 when she tried to do the same.

As for those dumb jocks, Scot and Jason, it seemed that they were so upset that Aubry outwitted them, they decided that ouwitting wouldn't be their voting criteria. Stupid people.

• RE: It's now only Outplay, Outlast.,Aruba, 08:27 AM, 05-21-16
  • RE: It's now only Outplay, Outlast.,michel2, 11:15 AM, 05-22-16
    • RE: It's now only Outplay, Outlast.,Aruba, 07:02 PM, 05-23-16
      • RE: It's now only Outplay, Outlast.,michel2, 04:22 PM, 05-24-16
        • RE: It's now only Outplay, Outlast.,Aruba, 08:07 PM, 05-24-16
          • RE: It's now only Outplay, Outlast.,michel2, 02:04 PM, 05-25-16
            • RE: It's now only Outplay, Outlast.,Aruba, 08:56 PM, 05-25-16
              • RE: It's now only Outplay, Outlast.,michel2, 01:04 AM, 05-26-16
• RE: It's now only Outplay, Outlast.,kingfish, 08:58 AM, 05-23-16
  • RE: It's now only Outplay, Outlast.,michel2, 04:08 PM, 05-24-16
    • RE: It's now only Outplay, Outlast.,kingfish, 05:30 PM, 05-24-16
  • RE: It's now only Outplay, Outlast.,Aruba, 08:17 PM, 05-24-16
• RE: It's now only Outplay, Outlast.,kingfish, 07:46 PM, 05-23-16
  • RE: It's now only Outplay, Outlast.,michel2, 04:09 PM, 05-24-16
  • RE: It's now only Outplay, Outlast.,Aruba, 08:19 PM, 05-24-16

Pretty good assessment.

When it’s Outplay and Outlast sportsmanship has a much better chance coming to the forefront. Consequently when it’s Outwit, the Bitter Bettys come out of the woodwork. Not all the time; but enough times to deprive a more deserving player the win.

Point well taken a clear dislike between Julia and Aubry was evident, but the alliance of Scot/Jason/Julia walked into Tribal knowing which name they were writing down. Jason and Scot were more upset at Tai than at Aubry. The F4 tie made to clear as crystal that Tai and Aubry were together so any animosity toward Tai would spill over to Aubry by association making Michele golden.

Just as you questioned why Cydney would be bitter at Aubry for voting her when Cydney did the same, I found it even MORE ridiculous Jason/Scot/Julia would be upset at Tai when we ALL saw and ALL heard during the season those three getting together and CLEARLY stating when they made the F4, all would vote out Tai so they could secure a Scot/Jason/Julia F3. Simply out, Tai beat them to the punch. Translation: SOOOOORE LOSERS! Hypocrisy at its worse.

As stupid and horrible as the removing a juror twist was, I don’t believe it altered the outcome. Perhaps Neal’s influence MAY have had a shot of changing Debbie’s mind, but I doubt it...Debbie, Scot/Jason/Julia and Cydney as well would all still be sucking on their bitter pills even if Neal remains on the Jury.

Whereas you make valid points with your questioning of the Jury’s decision, my biggest criticism is they focused on the final 3-4 day sprint as opposed to viewing Survivor as the 39-day journey it is. Had they objectively assessed the ENTIRE season, Aubry would be the deserving winner. And if you are going to focus on challenges and score cards then TEAM challenges should factor into the equation as well. With most tribe challenge wins an MVP or most dominant player usually emerges from the team wins. And if you did keep score this season, that one RC when they had to choose between advantage, food, love with THREE out of the seven winning something is NOT a full one individual victory in my book for any of those three castaways walking away with some reward.

Finally if Production wants to continue its orgasmic connection with puzzles and/or games you can find at any Chuckie Cheese franchise, please keep them out of the F4! I long for the days when the F4 IC(s) were blood and guts endurance tests. Not who could run/swim the fastest or whose innate gift allows them to solve puzzles faster...reward the competitor WHO WANTS IT MORE plain and simple. One can only wish.

Once again, I had a heck of a time sparring with you. The best part of the Reunion Show was a sneak peek at S33 and (without any returning players) knowing we’ll have another REAL season. So see you in September as our seasonal bantering will continue!

LAST EDITED ON 05-22-16 AT 03:47 PM (EST)

I always enjoy debating with you Aruba and while I don't like the idea of "Millenials vs Gen X" I'm sure we'll find topics to discuss. Do you remember the days when the location was the theme? Did Jeff even say where they were going? The last 15 seasons could have been filmed on Burnett's ranch for all we've seen. Now it's always gimmicks and we've seen old vs young before and it gave us one of the worse seasons ever.

Now you mention that Scot and Jason were bitter at Tai for no good reason because he did to them what they were planning to do to him. I think you're wrong because of two things: First of all, Scot and Jason said that to Julia so it could have been nothing more than a way to placate her. Also, in an alliance of 4, waiting for F4 to battle it out is the honorable thing to do. By flipping on them so early Tai reneged on their deal and in Survivor deals have only one clause: "You screw me, I'll screw you." They had every right to vote against him. It's voting against Aubry that totally disregards the strategic aspect of the game. By the way, did you notice that the players all agreed with me in that Tai was the goat!!

Where I agree most with you is in the fact that the game should be judged for the entire 39 days and even Julia said that Michele did nothing before well after the merger! Yet she's now the Sole Survivor. I've been telling you for a long time that those elaborate challenges are just a waste of time so I also agree that a simple "Keep your Hand on the Idol" should be the end of every season. and it should always be a Final 2

Much like they recycle challenges, the same recycling is done with locations making it difficult to have original themes. One approach taken in several earlier seasons included my favorite rewards—the winning tribe would have a day with the locals from that location who would show/teach the castaways basic survivor skills in that area. What a great way to incorporate the environment for that season with the elements of the game! Now they throw massive amounts of food at the winner (and who they choose to carry) to a reward. Sakes alive, if they offer any more food at the end of the reward they’ll have to provide a feather so we do not have a similar Joe-like scenario.

It wasn’t only Scot/Jason talking to Julia…it was Julia HERSELF who stated in confessionals Tai would go at F4 so she could have her dream FTC sitting next to Scot and Jason. Had those four coasted to the F4, Julia would have been the favorite to win that F4 IC in my opinion. Point being, Tai was obviously wise to that scenario, so he outwitted those before they had the possibility to eliminate him at the end. Yes I noticed in the end Tai was perceived as a goat…just a case of me hoping among all hope this would be a season where bitterness would not help decide the winner. But did you notice pretty much everyone else involved with Survivor agreed Tai owned the season!!

Yes, it would be “honorable” if the F4 alliance made a pact where they advance to the F4 and truly fight it out individually to the end and let the best castaway win. But it is not even remotely “honorable” when three out of the four propose beforehand they will unlevel the playing field and gang up on that other one at the F4. Want an example of HONOR: Do NOT display poor sportsmanship by disgruntledly punishing the player who outwitted you!

As much as you keep telling me the elaborate challenges are a waste of time, I keep telling you without the challenges we would not be gearing ourselves for a 33rd season. I, for one, would have stopped watching a long time ago before waiting on a 33rd elaborate social experiment.

Trust me, I dislike the fact of the greatest divide in Reality TV more than you dislike the Millenials vs. Gen X, but my point is as long as that sad reality exists in the game you may as well try to minimize it as much as possible with this format. The season in Nicaragua divided by age had arguably one of the worst casts ever assembled that translated to a horrible season.

I loved those rewards also. Also memorable were the excursion in the inflated balloon over Africa, the night in the village during Marquesas, the visit to the Great Wall of China. Now, it's simply a make-shift Survivor pub. Boring.

Julia may have said they would take out Tai at F4 but if Jason and Scot were lying to her what does that prove. We only know that those two guys were sticking together. I believe that at F4 the three guys would have teamed up against Julia, not Tai.

Tai couldn't explain his game even to himself so it wasn't a question of bitterness. He was all over the place and, well before the end, everyone on the island knew that Tai had absolutely no chance of winning. Everyone involved with Survivor loved Tai-the-Character, very few considered Tai as a good player.

I would much rather have simple challenges that have something to do with Survival skills. That was a big reason for the show's popularity. Digging in the dirt or running around for puzzle pieces has nothing to do with Survival skills.

I can even give some suggestions: Give each tribe a map of the island and tell them that the first tribe to find the reward hidden in the jungle wins it. Simple. Have them catch the most fish. Have them search for a cave which would become their new shelter, etc...

Well I’m glad we see eye-to-eye on rewards. All your mentioned rewards bring back good memories, but my favorite reward all-time (from a cultural standpoint) had to be in China when the winning tribe visited local fishermen. I was completely floored at their culture on how to fish by tying rope around the neck of seagulls (obviously not so tight to cut off their air supply) but just tight enough so they would not be able to swallow the fish they caught. The fishermen would then open up its bill and retrieve the fish. I believe part of the reward was to eat the fish that were retrieved and prepared.

Granted Tai does not possess the ability to express himself in our language, and even in his native tongue one can assume his education as a boy was limited to none. Even so in a Scot/Jason/Julia/Tai F4, Tai wins regardless of which two he sits next to which is why I still contend in that scenario (where he wouldn’t have outwitted and rubbed others negatively AND Julia would have been perceived by most female jurors as a traitor) the other three would cut him loose given that opportunity at F4.

I hear all you’re saying about challenges having little to do with survival skills. I know I mentioned this numerous times on these Boards, if puzzle-solving was essential to survival skills, Daniel Defoe would have dedicated a chapter or two to puzzles when he wrote Robinson Crusoe. I like all your suggestions. Actually I believe the premier of S11 was giving both tribes a map to a destination leading to a more favorable camp area. It took over a day (probably a U.S. record for the longest challenge) and the first tribe to reach the destination won the benefit of the better shelter/camp. Also in S6 they did have a challenge where the winning tribe caught the most fish. And yes...it did contribute to the show’s early popularity.

You know what was the funniest thing about the Guatemala trek? Everyone agreed afterwards that the Yaxha camp, the losers' camp, was better. It was cooler and had much less mosquitoes!! I think they solved the mystery surrounding the end of the Mayan empire!

In a Tai/Scot/Jason scenario, I believe Jason had a very good chance of winning. By no way a certainty but his game would have held up

HMMMM, I thought the mystery of that empire was solved when it was determined the Mayans were really ancient aliens who decided it was time to go back to their galaxy...that is until they crashed in Roswell, NM. LMAO!!!

In a Scot/Jason/Julia scenario, I think Jason would have pulled out the victory. How sad would THAT finale have been for this season.

See, I think Julia wins against Scot and Jason so that's why I think they'd want to keep Tai.

I too am disappointed that someone who played such a magnificent game (not without flaws, but on the whole, magnificent) wasn't rewarded with the Mill.

I would like to raise a Coconut milk colada to Aubry, another really resourceful and tough woman who (along with Denise) will go down in the annals of Survivor history as being the best to play the game.

I would also like to propose a toast to Tai for being the most entertaining in a pleasant way character to ever trod the sandy beaches of Survivor, and for one of his final statements, paraphrased; "I like the conditions, that was fun for me..."

With this jury of eccentrics, school yard bullies, and blowhemians, I doubt that Neal's presence would have swayed anyone. Although (IMO) the jury vote nullification was an twist with out an effect (once again), I like it and I'd like to see it retained. On a close vote it could make a difference if used wisely, but the bigger impact would be on the strategic thinking of the survivors toward the end of the game. Just another device to screw with their thinking.

I admit that it could lead to unforeseen and unfortunate consequences, like maybe a goat winning overall (maybe?), but still, I like it.

I also liked that there were three HIs, and none were used, they all became souvenirs. Ha Ha!

I liked Nicks final speech, even with the condescension. Given his apparent Nick-centric view of the world, that was generous.

One can not predict what criteria a given jury will use at the end, we (or at least I) can only hope for more consideration given to Outwitting the game, it's much more fun for us and certainly more rewarding.

I appreciate your point of view, Kingfish.

I would put Tina, Sandra, Kim, Cirie, Natalie A. and a few more ahead of Denise and Aubry but I did enjoy Aubry's game.

As for the twist, my view is that there are 6 major steps in the Survivor experience:

- Being cast
- Hearing Jeff say: "Welcome to Survivor"
- Surviving the first vote
- Making the Merger
- Making the Jury
- Making it to FTC

Once you've made the jury, I think it's despicable to deprive someone of the FTC experience. It's even undemocratic given the sanctity of the right to vote. Neal may not have influenced the jury but who knows?

PS. I heard Nick's speech was even better than what was shown.

I would also group Sandra with the other two. You just don't win twice by accident. And I like Cirie's game, more for the entertainment value though.

Not Tina or especially not Natalie.

Right or wrong, being despicable is just part of the game, including producer's despicability. Neal was blindsided by that twist, so also he has my sympathy. He got screwed twice. But if it's to be repeated someone has to suffer being first. In the future though, the threat of being eliminated from the jury will play into both a player's social game and in his/her strategic game. It'll at least be a topic of conversation around camp. They'll all still be playing for the win, but they might not make their loyalties so visible in order to not be taken off the jury.

.

Just a point of reference: An idol does not have to be specifically played at TC to be used and to have an impact. Numerous times an idol was never played but the holder of the idol still advanced because of it and in some cases ultimately won the game regardless.

Tony possessed the “idol with special powers” and even though he cleverly made the others believe the idol had more power than it did, it was not played at TC. Colton’s idol that was literally placed in his lap completely changed the complexion of that season even though he was carried out of the game with the idol still in his pocket.

It’s ironic you used the word “souvenir” because the first player I recall using that term to reference his HII was Hantz who also did not play his last idol at TC but still used it to get plenty of mileage nevertheless.

I’m not sure anyone can sell me on the new “remove a juror” twist. Not only CAN it result in a goat winning the game, if this new twist becomes a staple in future seasons in all likelihood it WILL. But now that the cat is out of the bag, it will have an impact with future players who will never really know for sure if there’ll be a F2 or a F3 with this remove a juror twist.

I thought I heard Jeff say something about going back to Fiji.

I heard it will be Fiji also but did he say it during the promo or in interview? If h said it during the reunion, he barely brushed over it.

You heard correctly...yet another recycled location. Even though I know nothing of next season's cast, I doubt this upcoming season could be any more dismal than the other time Fiji was the site.