Hold it. So if Melana or Larissa had approached the producers and said 'This shipment of hunks is completely unfair to the original contestant pool: I want them out of here. Now', they would have marched the himbos back onto the bus and aimed it for the nearest cliff? Of course, we are talking about Shallow 1.0 and 1.1 here, so the odds are just a little bit long on that event -- but honestly: all someone had to do was speak up?

Horrible, sick, nausea-inducing moment for a basher: over the space of several seconds, I was proud of Adam. How often have we seen someone cry foul on behalf of others? He may not be the first, but he's guaranteed to be in the original dozen. As far as I'm concerned, he did the right thing, and more power to him. In fact, that 'Wanna see a promo segment?' bit looks a little like the producers taking revenge.

Unfortunately, we did miss what was probably a classic comedy moment: the bus ride back to Vegas. 'No, you can't get me a drink! You said you'd get me on TV, and all I got was what, forty seconds? I only let people with actual power serve me drinks! Now get to the back of the bus before I say something I'll actually regret!'

• RE: 'You mean you could have taken your hand out of that cuff at any time?',ladro, 08:06 PM, 03-23-04
  • RE: 'You mean you could have taken your hand out of that cuff at any time?',Estee, 08:17 PM, 03-23-04
  • RE: 'You mean you could have taken your hand out of that cuff at any time?',SurvivorBlows, 08:24 PM, 03-23-04
    • RE: 'You mean you could have taken your hand out of that cuff at any time?',ladro, 10:48 PM, 03-23-04
      • RE: 'You mean you could have taken your hand out of that cuff at any time?',DRONES, 07:35 AM, 03-24-04
      • RE: 'You mean you could have taken your hand out of that cuff at any time?',SurvivorBlows, 04:04 PM, 03-24-04
        • RE: 'You mean you could have taken your hand out of that cuff at any time?',ladro, 05:03 PM, 03-24-04
          • RE: 'You mean you could have taken your hand out of that cuff at any time?',SurvivorBlows, 05:26 PM, 03-24-04
• RE: 'You mean you could have taken your hand out of that cuff at any time?',mmm_link, 08:39 AM, 03-24-04
• RE: 'You mean you could have taken your hand out of that cuff at any time?',SilverStar, 01:52 PM, 03-24-04
  • RE: 'You mean you could have taken your hand out of that cuff at any time?',Howard Dean, 02:29 PM, 03-24-04
    • Off-Topic here, but...,SilverStar, 11:12 AM, 03-25-04
  • I was waiting for someone to do that...,Estee, 06:42 AM, 03-25-04
• RE: 'You mean you could have taken your hand out of that cuff at any time?',AJ_for_life, 11:52 PM, 03-24-04

Neither Larrissa nor Melana had the option of getting rid of the Himbos.

In Adam Returns the entrance of the models was scripted to create buzz, the exit of the models was scripted to make Adam look like a hirsuite hero. Stubble played along because he is a DAW. There was never any intention of having the bikini models compete. It was all a sham.

Neither Larrissa nor Melana had the option of getting rid of
the Himbos.

Quite possible. I just don't think either one would have taken the option if it had existed.

In Adam Returns the entrance of the models was scripted to
create buzz, the exit of the models was scripted to make Adam look like a hirsuite hero.

Agreed that Adam has been edited into the good guy for a long time now, but I believe the producers would have prefered to keep the models around, just for the sake of future ratings. Call it the Fear Factor Factor.

Stubble played along because he is a DAW.

Not sure there. It's hard to edit someone into a decent person if there isn't a little bit there to begin with.

So while I firmly believe Adam is a DAW, and a world-class DAW for coming on the show twice, he occasionally strikes me as a somewhat decent sort of DAW. But a DAW nonetheless.

There was never any intention of having the bikini models compete.

Disagree: ratings again. In fact, I'm shocked they only brought five. (I was expecting fifteen -- equal to the contestant pool at the time.)

>Neither Larrissa nor Melana had the
>option of getting rid of the Himbos.
>
>In Adam Returns the entrance of the models was scripted to
>create buzz, the exit of the models was scripted to
>make Adam look like a hirsuite hero. Stubble played along
>because he is a DAW. There was never any intention
>of having the bikini models compete. It was all a
>sham.

Ladro, you keep expressing this opinion -- but now you're implying that this is a known fact and not just your opinion.

If it's more than your opinion please point out a source. If it's just your opinion, please don't imply its fact with statements like the above.

-SB

I understand you wanting to have people qualify their opinions.

I thought the 'opinion' that Melana and Larrissa didn't have an option regarding how many of each himbo/AJs they cut each week was a well established fact on this board. The requirement for them to cut an equal number of AJs/Himbos was cited in a TV Guide article which is quoted in a thread that began at the beginning of AverageJoe Hawaii. It wouldn't have been much of a show if the Melana and Larrissa cut all the Himbos.

As to my 'opinion' that the entrance/exit of the Bikini Models (BMs) was scripted, well I just think there is a perponderence of evidence to support that hypothesis:
1. Only 5 or 6 (they all look alike) BMs arrived. This is inconsistent with the 'equal numbers' format followed in both AJs
2. The BMs showed up early in the day when only Adam was around, again inconsistent with the format followed in both AJs.
3. The BMs didn't appear real upset that they were being kicked out of the competetion.
4. While they were leaving, one of the FAJs (fat average joe's) commented that this was really just a character test for Adam.
5. The BMs showed up in Bikini's. That signals to me that they knew this was a one shot deal.
6. There are already quite a few hot, bikini model caliber women in the competetion (you pointed out Brittany's modeling history and Playboy experience). What would be the point of bringing in more women unless there is a clear contrast between the two groups.(this is the most compelling reason to me)
7. it is only a 4 episode/6 hour show. I am sure the producers could have streched that out had that been their intentition, but the producers didn't stretch it out. As it is, the cuts and dates move very quickly by comparison to most similar shows. Had five additional women been added to the mix, the pace would have been extreme.
8. The entrance/exit of the BMs has no effect whatsoever on the outcome of the show. There are no pictures of the BMs on the NBC site. The only reason to show their entrance/exit is to create buzz and make Adam look good. The entrance/exit was not only shown, it was hyped to the hilt.

I can't be sure what Adam knew and when he knew. But even if Adam didn't know explictly what was to transpire, the producers formatted the showdown in such a way, and gave Adam sufficent lattitude in the programs's direction, that Adam could have only one possible response to the arrival of the BMs. And I am sure there were people standing by to advise Adam what that response should be, should he fail to think of it on his own.

"I thought the 'opinion' that Melana and Larrissa didn't have an option regarding how many of each himbo/AJs they cut each week was a well established fact on this board. The requirement for them to cut an equal number of AJs/Himbos was cited in a TV Guide article which is quoted in a thread that began at the beginning of AverageJoe Hawaii."

Her being forced by the producers to dismiss equal numbers would imply that she was going to dismiss more joes than hunks. I think we can safely assume that the reverse of that was never true. There was never any indication that either M or L wanted to get rid of the hunks.

The rest of your post makes perfects sense to me. You make a great case and I'm inclined to believe you. A very well thought out analysis.

DRONES

LAST EDITED ON 03-24-04 AT 04:21 PM (EST)

Ladro, I understand your thoughts and already explained last week how due to his appearance on the previous series I thought Adam clearly had more "control" over this edition than either Larissa or Melana, I just wanted it to be clear -- particularly since there are lots of newbies here and we don't have saparate forums like we do for Survivor -- that the information you are presentig is opinion, not confirmed fact they simply missed hearing about.

Obviously Larissa and Melana were told to keep "equal amounts" -- as you said, TV Guide confirmed that -- just as Adam was told that some new women would be joining the show. The difference is that the two self-absorbed media whores apparently never tried to rock the boat and change the rules (likely fearful that they themselves would be axed) so obviously we'll never know what would have happened if they had approached the producers. But we do know for example that both of them complained bitterly after the initial arrivals of the joe's but didn't have the strength of their convictions to actually walk. The reality is that by the nature of the facts that Adam was now a "known star" and NBC had already announced the show, Adam had the producers over a barrel and both he and they knew it. Comparing his authority to that of two then-anonymous former beauty queens is like comparing apples and oranges.

As for your list of issues, I hope you realize that several of your points are "self fulfilling prophecy"-type things, but some notes:

1) "Average Joe 1" DID NOT have "equal numbers" of hotties/joes. THREE hotties were introduced when SIX joes were left and the next round cut the number of participants to SIX. "AJ3" introduced FIVE models just before cutting the number of participants to... TEN. Sounds similar to me.

2) Knowing the models were only going be on the show for 5 minutes, how did you possibly expect the producers to edit the show in post-production? Obviously they can't flat-out make up footage, so they really didn't have much choice in how the models were presented.

3) The models "didn't look upset?" Certainly you've seen enough reality TV to know that lots of footage ends up on the cutting room floor and not everything gets shown. As you said, the show has a time crunch, showing more than Angel's "I want a guy like that" comment would probably have been excessive given the limited time available.

4) The models were in bikinis the same why that AJ2's hotties were shown endlessly cruising around the harbor in their big yacht and Baywatch-like outfits. Because, unlike Aj1 and Aj2, they arrived at a non-ceremony event, it would have made little sense for them to arrive in eveningwear.

5) Honestly, I'd say Brittany was the only "average jane" who I'd say was anywhere in the phyiscal class of the bikini models -- and I don't mean that as a slight to the other janes, just fact.

...additionally I think the fact that out of nowhere the producers are suddenly showing the girls a "preview" of a "Adam Returns" commercial -- a commerical that from what I could tell, shows scenes that never made it into the REAL commericals that aired -- in an attempt to create drama is a clear indication that the models were at least originally intended to stick around until the janes got there.

Basically, they couldn't get him in hot water (literally) by being seen in the hot tub with 5 models, so they are going to try and do it by showing him making out with two of the janes instead...

-SB

LAST EDITED ON 03-25-04 AT 00:24 AM (EST)

i don't mind at all that you question my post.

For the sake of brevity I am going to focus only on your response to what I consider to be the most imporatant point.

<<<5) Honestly, I'd say Brittany was the only "average jane" who I'd say was anywhere in the phyiscal class of the bikini models -- and I don't mean that as a slight to the other janes, just fact.>>>

IMHO, Amy, Samantha, Anna, and Heather could all be described as model caliber in looks. I don't know how you could possibly describe them as 'average janes'. To the best of my knowledge, the producers and advertisers have never used the term 'average jane' in relationship to this show. I don't see how use of the term 'average jane' is less of an opinon or more of a fact than my claim that the arrival/departure of the BMs was scripted.

ps: I am starting to think that the job description of 'Teacher' is just an alias for 'model'/asspiring DAW when used by Reality Show contestants. I know Brittany described herself as a teacher and I think Anna and Heather described themselves as teachers.

edited to add: The 3 himbos in AJ1 did not enter until there were only 3 AJs left. http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID58/97.shtml

I agree that the word "average jane" is inappropriate here, as was just simply using it for simplicity, (because everyone else seems to be using it) brevity, and frankly laziness (because "the original set of women" was too long to type).

As for the four girls you mentioned, I'm not saying they are not attractive in their own right, certainly not, just that from what I can tell, they don't have the combination of drop-dead gorgeous face and knockout bodies that a bikini model typically has. Samanatha and Heather in particular look (at least to me) much older than they allege to be (Heather reminds me of another Heather... Locklear -- but since Locklear is now like 42, she probably doesn't want to hear that, LOL)

-SB

If the producers wanted an extra "real" episode, they should have brought in the "bikini clad ladies of the evening" on a day when Adam "knew" none of the average Janes were going to show up. That would have been the real test.

No, not at any time. Only when it was funny!

Proud Member RBBRTFHLA/Greasy Food Division
LVOE Roger Rabbit!! Oh, and I agree that even if L & M had been given the option, neither one would have taken it.