This season has been quite boring. With two alliances of 6 forming on Day 1, there hasn't been much surprises. Rob's buddy system is the only thing new we've seen as far as strategy goes. But the worse is the very concept of Redemption Island.

This Insider Clip from David explains as well as anything why I hate RI.

"If I go to Redemption Island tonight, I've kind of accepted it. I'm not out of the game yet, it's just the next stage.

"I think I have as good of a shot as anybody to win out there, so I'm not real worried about it. But I'd much rather not have to deal with that, but part of me is kind of looking forward to going there, in a way. It's time to relax, to spend an evening with Mike or Matt, different perspective on things, won't have the animosity that's going on here. Won't have to listen to Phillip. Probably have more than enough rice and nobody that will complain about how much I have to eat tonight."

"I won't have to depend on anybody else to do or not do things. I don't have to clean up anybody else's messes. I don't have to explain to anybody else the rationale for things. I just have to go out and win a simple task. I'm not gonna be hanging upside down with a couple of 90 pound girls."

Basically, he's saying he won't have to play the game of Survivor but could still win Survivor.

And, add what he doesn't say: The returning player, especially if he goes on a run like Matt did pre-merge, will have a chance to bond with the jurors in a context where, as David put it, they "won't have the animosity that's going on" in the game.

Ils sont fous, ces Romains!
Thanks Tribe!

• RE: I Hate Redemption Island,dabo, 00:57 AM, 04-18-11
• RE: I Hate Redemption Island,Travel_Queen, 12:00 PM, 04-18-11
  • RE: I Hate Redemption Island,iltarion, 11:34 PM, 04-18-11
    • RE: I Hate Redemption Island,michel, 09:42 AM, 04-19-11
      • RE: I Hate Redemption Island,dabo, 10:32 AM, 04-19-11
      • RE: I Hate Redemption Island,iltarion, 03:30 PM, 04-19-11
        • RE: I Hate Redemption Island,michel, 04:45 PM, 04-19-11
          • RE: I Hate Redemption Island,iltarion, 08:55 PM, 04-19-11
            • RE: I Hate Redemption Island,michel, 09:33 PM, 04-19-11
              • RE: I Hate Redemption Island,iltarion, 00:14 AM, 04-20-11
                • RE: I Hate Redemption Island,dabo, 11:27 AM, 04-20-11
              • RE: I Hate Redemption Island,kingfish, 01:21 PM, 04-20-11
            • RE: I Hate Redemption Island,dabo, 12:28 PM, 04-20-11
• RE: I Hate Redemption Island,kingfish, 02:55 PM, 04-19-11
  • RE: I Hate Redemption Island,michel, 08:38 PM, 04-19-11
    • RE: I Hate Redemption Island,iltarion, 08:58 PM, 04-19-11
      • RE: I Hate Redemption Island,michel, 11:01 AM, 04-20-11
        • RE: I Hate Redemption Island,dabo, 11:29 AM, 04-20-11
    • "Eyebrow raise?",suzzee, 10:23 AM, 04-20-11
      • RE: "Eyebrow raise?" ,michel, 10:59 AM, 04-20-11

I've tried to give this nonsense a chance, really I have. The skeptic in me takes a hard line with this, though, especially in light of the absurd and extensive hype Probst has larded out, because it was obvious even before the season started that this was a gamechanging twist in a purely literal sense. And I have tried to be fair and even ignore the trouble it has caused me in trying to do the vote threads. Here's what I think:

Survivor used to be a game, a pretty good if somewhat mean and difficult game. Redemption Island does not contribute more game to the game. Redemption Island detracts from the game that previously existed. For those retractions Redemption Island does not substitute any game, not better than game, not equal to game, not even worse than but different game. It substitutes competition in place of game, and nothing else whatsoever. Nothing against competition, but this competition isn't game, it is more sport. They have ruined Survivor, they destroyed the game.

I'm with you Michel. At first I thought it would be nice to have something fresh, but that was before I realized the consequences like you've pointed out. I'm surprised it's not getting more criticism. If for instance Rob or Russell had been the ones in Matt's position, I think we would have seen more people being vocal on how it's so unfair.

The challenges on RI have been so lame, and apart from the loneliness, I don't really see any downside to RI to anyone going there. If they continue this "twist" next season, people will be lining up to go (espicially if the winner ends up coming back from RI and winning). And I can see them adding an II on RI as well!

LAST EDITED ON 04-19-11 AT 01:25 AM (EST)

I cited the biggest problem with RI way back when Francesca anticlimactically dropped her buff in the fire. Dismissing players from RI takes away from the drama of the TC, which is the show's main point of drama, though there can be others. When you take away the finality of the vote at TC, you lessen both TC and the power of the vote, and in doing so, you drastically change the game.

Now, that being said, I can see two potential benefits to RI.

1) Another potential dramatic story line.
2) A balance against any possibly unfair twists in the game.

The problem is that we have had neither of those benefits this season. Matt's story line has been a serious dud since he wasn't able to leverage his 6 challenge wins into any kind of stamina within the game, and since there was no tribal switch or other twists, there has been no need for #2.

Very understandable that David, or any other Zap, would invite a trip to RI. In fact, one could argue the exact opposite side of Michel's seeming argument, and I say "seeming" as in what it "seems to me," by saying this season is the PERFECT time for RI. Certainly, if you are pulling for anyone on Zapatera, then RI gives you some sort of reason for hope; whereas, there would be zero hope without it.

Let's keep in mind that in Ometepe we have tribe that is so fascist they make Chapera look like Casaya. With them in the majority, the minority has no shot of avoiding the axe. One could argue that RI provides us with the ONLY chance for drama prior to the F6.

So, considering this unique situation, I think it is going too far to suggest that people WANTING to go to RI could somehow become the norm. I don't know about you, but being sent someplace alone, with only a small shelter, a lamp, and some rice to eat does not sound inviting to me, in the least bit. Just imagine sleeping out there, in the jungle, at night, by yourself. Screw that.

>

"Certainly, if you are pulling for anyone on Zapatera, then RI gives you some sort of reason for hope"

See, that's one of the differences between us: I never pull for anyone more than I pull for a good game and a good season. Those on RI aren't playing the game. As for a good season, it comes in part from good strategy but mostly from the laughs that the interactions provide. You'll never appreciate Survivor the way I do if you don't embrace Casaya, Coach, Chris, Sandra, etc... There is no entertainment value on RI. Maybe Coach could find a way to make us laugh but that is about it.

As for insurance against unfair twists, there were always other ways to prevent a twist from screwing your game. For example, if Aaron had become friends with Jaime when she came over to Fei Long, he would have stood a chance to survive that season's twist. Instead he acted like a crazy boss around her, picking fights with Jean Robert and then booting Leslie, the one person that had connected with Jaime. Even if you don't agree, there is nothing more unfair than having been booted twice and still have a chance to win the million.

PS. If you were pulling for anyone on Zappa, I'd suggest you find another band because, like Frank, they are dead.

I basically agree, I love the game and the strategy. Twists up until now have been mainly to challenge strong strategies, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. This Redemption Island twist, though, is a game killer, it effectively just kills the game. Had not Matt been sent back to Redemption Island, there was a chance that two booted players would make Final. TWO! Game * Killer!

I would think it would be pretty obvious that I am pulling for B-Rob.

I would also think it is already established that I don't "appreciate Survivor the way" YOU do, and that is fine. I suspect there is a rather lengthy list of things we don't appreciate the same.

There COULD be entertainment value on RI, especially by your definition of it, there just hasn't been any this season.

There is always a way "to prevent a twist from screwing your game" in hindsight. No doubt.

I suspect being booted twice GREATLY diminishes your chances of winning the game. Lil was only booted once, and yet she could only get 1 harebrained vote against the most disliked player to ever win the million.

>

Funny thing about Lil though: The Outcasts voted her back in the game mostly because they didn't want her to stay with them in Loser Lodge. Lil wasn't easy to live with, wasn't very likable because the game made her crazy. Matt and Mike are much more likable and, what is truly unfair, they will have a chance to become friends with future jurors without worrying to vote them out.

And, if there was a way in hindsight then that implies there was a way, period. Maybe not so easy to see but it always revolves around something that Yau Man borrowed from Shakespeare: “Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none.”

PS. Sandra still won two jury votes so most disliked from your POV but not where it counted.

Sandra in PI was the most disliked person to ever win. Sandra in H vs. V was much more likable, though she didn't win either vote by being liked.

>

Just to amuse Kingfish, I'll object that no winner was hated more than Brian. At least two people liked Sandra. Helen voted for him but wanted to strangle him! So, can we please get back to hating RI!

LAST EDITED ON 04-20-11 AT 00:16 AM (EST)

No. Brian was liked by everyone in his tribe. In fact, I would say he was easily the most liked person in his tribe. Of course, considering his tribe and their distaste for one another, that doesn't exactly make him JT.

Sandra was despised by some members of her own tribe and was only tolerated by members of Morgan.

RI has been a failure so far, but maybe we should wait until the finale before reaching a conclusion on this topic.

>

Well, Clay was hated by everyone. Brian actually had a good game, he played nice in camp but he didn't let emotions rule his game moves.

Thank you. I am amused.

Sandra perfected a passive-aggressive strategy in Survivor, as long as there is a Fairplay or Hantz in the game for her to take potshots at she's in good shape for a win. Rob v. Russell, feh, make it Cirie v. Sandra, that I might really enjoy.

I don't really mind it. I kinda like the idea that there is a twist that can ruin someone's strategy, like a merge advantage that can lead to a straight pagonging. It might not defeat a pagonging, but the possibility is there.

I have become bored with the strategies anyway, after this many seasons it becomes same-ole-same-ole, and what is really entertaining to me is the strange personalities and the acts that these personalities actually think we will buy into.

Whether or not Phil, Coach, Lil, Fairplay, Judd, or any of the rest are acting out for us or are honestly wacko matters some, What is really entertaining is when they, like psychopaths everywhere, have the hubris to think they can put their act over on the millions that watch.

I enjoy making as much fun of them at their expense as I can.

And then watching those that do buy into those acts argue passionately (here and elsewhere) that they aren't nutjobs, that they are actually geniuses, or something else.

Basically, I like the party, RI twist, Exile Isle, or whatever or not. And I like that they do attempt to vary things with new twists.

But, without strategy, isn't it only a soap opera?

And, as for one that likes to argue, I see it as adding to the fun, sometimes imagining what I would do in those situations, other times laughing at other's favorites.

Did you notice that the longest scene we've had from RI was when Krista and Matt talked about her bible. Varying things or wasting time?

That was the longest scene because it was Krista's redemption. It was also used to foreshadow Andrea's split from Matt.

>

That was the longest scene because nothing ever happens there.

No, it was the hype machine demonstrating how wonderful this all is. I did love Krista's redemption but it served no purpose in the game other than to give Matt a Bible to take back with him when he returned to the game.

And, as for one that likes to argue,...

no.way! not you!!

agman makes me hot