Be they one-legged models, one-armed bandits, one-eyed pirates, or wheel-chair bound seniors. DO NOT DO THIS TO US AGAIN!

What's the point? They come into this game with a huge target on their back, and they waste camera time, time that someone else could be using, whether physical or mental, AND they starve themselves and try to prove they are 'just as good as anyone else, and a role-model for all handicaps everywhere' for NAUGHT!

It's ridiculous. I know you can't discriminate. BUT, you don't see one-legged people doing the Amazing Race. Midgets, yes, but someone who's had a knee replacement? NOPE.

This is a game of PHYSICAL challenges. And, although this poor girl was just as good, if not better than most, no one on her tribe (or the other for that matter) cared! They did NOT want to face off with her in the finale. Why? Because handicap=pity votes.

IF she had been a huge beyotch, it would have been a different story. But she was not. She was nice, easy to get along with, and pulled her weight. But, because she had an appendage missing, she was a threat to them all. HOW SAD IS THAT?

In the game of Survivor, sadly, only the creeps really survive. Just ask RussHell. Oh, and Perverti.

• RE: Note to MB and Jiffy: No more disabled survivors...,jbug, 01:02 PM, 10-21-10
  • RE: Note to MB and Jiffy: No more disabled survivors...,dabo, 01:10 PM, 10-21-10
  • RE: Note to MB and Jiffy: No more disabled survivors...,tribephyl, 02:36 PM, 10-21-10
    • RE: Note to MB and Jiffy: No more disabled survivors...,iltarion, 05:52 PM, 10-21-10
• RE: Note to MB and Jiffy: No more disabled survivors...,Snidget, 02:27 PM, 10-21-10
• RE: Note to MB and Jiffy: No more disabled survivors...,michel, 06:54 PM, 10-21-10
  • RE: Note to MB and Jiffy: No more disabled survivors...,suzzee, 07:47 AM, 10-22-10
    • RE: Note to MB and Jiffy: No more disabled survivors...,MizJazmine, 10:36 PM, 10-22-10
• RE: Note to MB and Jiffy: No more disabled survivors...,CTgirl, 09:37 AM, 10-22-10
  • RE: Note to MB and Jiffy: No more disabled survivors...,PepeLePew13, 01:53 PM, 10-23-10
    • RE: Note to MB and Jiffy: No more disabled survivors...,iltarion, 03:56 PM, 10-23-10
      • RE: Note to MB and Jiffy: No more disabled survivors...,PepeLePew13, 05:30 PM, 10-23-10
        • RE: Note to MB and Jiffy: No more disabled survivors...,iltarion, 07:10 PM, 10-24-10
          • RE: Note to MB and Jiffy: No more disabled survivors...,PepeLePew13, 08:19 PM, 10-24-10
• RE: Note to MB and Jiffy: No more disabled survivors...,kingfish, 09:47 AM, 10-22-10
• Please define 'disabled'.,Estee, 10:22 AM, 10-22-10
  • RE: Please define 'disabled'.,kingfish, 12:03 PM, 10-22-10
    • RE: Please define 'disabled'.,PepeLePew13, 01:53 PM, 10-23-10
      • RE: Please define 'disabled'.,kingfish, 02:22 PM, 10-24-10
• RE: Note to MB and Jiffy: No more disabled survivors...,Aruba, 06:10 AM, 10-23-10
  • RE: Note to MB and Jiffy: No more disabled survivors...,iltarion, 03:48 PM, 10-23-10
    • RE: Note to MB and Jiffy: No more disabled survivors...,michel, 01:12 PM, 10-24-10
      • Disagree,dabo, 06:48 PM, 10-24-10
        • RE: Disagree,iltarion, 07:24 PM, 10-24-10
          • RE: Disagree,michel, 07:56 PM, 10-24-10
            • RE: Disagree,dabo, 04:35 PM, 10-25-10
• RE: Note to MB and Jiffy: No more disabled survivors...,udg, 01:09 PM, 10-23-10
  • RE: Note to MB and Jiffy: No more disabled survivors...,michel, 11:34 PM, 10-24-10

Someone is bound to remember the season with the guy who had a prosthetic leg better than me.

But, I don't remember the other survivors being worried about a pity vote for him. Am I dis-remembering?

I've not been able to figure out the reasoning.

Kelly B has one leg
I have to vote for her to win
I hate her for that
everyone hates her for that
We have to get rid of Kelly B before we make her win!

It's more demented than Sue Hawk. I can just imagine Sue Hawk getting up

We all hate Kelly B, she's a snake and she's a rat, we have to vote for her to win, let's respect the one-legged spirits and vote Kelly B the win because we have to even though we all hate her forever and ever!

Vanuatu: Chad Crittenden. (emydi's beau)
While the subject of his handicap was somewhat of an issue early on. The fact that the guys were down 4 to 6 at merge made it kind of a moot point. Rory, Sarge then Chad were taken out at F10, F9 and F8. Chris survived solely due to the intertribal dynamics of the remaining ladies. Had the guys had more numbers at merge, Chad's "worthiness due to handicap" would definitely have been an issue and would have done him in eventually.
But really, prosthetic appendages are no more dangerous than likeable personalities. No one wants to sit next to someone who highlights their downfalls.
Those who are not likeable don't want to go up against those who are, those with two legs don't want to go up against those with one, those who have money don't want to go up against those that do, etc...

LAST EDITED ON 10-21-10 AT 05:54 PM (EST)

No, I have to disagree. True having a disability and having a great personality can both be strikes against you, but I don't remember anyone saying pre-merge, or heck, even from the VERY FIRST day in camp- "That person is too nice. No one will want to sit next to them in the FTC. So, we'll have to get rid of them."

Yes, now postmerge we have had people targeted for being nice, but that is usually only an endgame consideration. And ironically, two of the main people I remember who were targeted for being too nice- Lil and Amanda, both made it to the FTC anyway and neither won. So, people's concern appeared to be unwarranted.

JT was so nice people actually WANTED him to make it to the end.

So, yes, being nice can get you targeted near the end, but it can also help you win the game. I'm not sure anyone has ever won Survivor without being nice to someone. Even Russell was nice to his inner alliance, though it wasn't enough to get him a win.

In the inverted morality world of Survivor, where lying is looked at as good and telling the truth or trusting someone is looked at as bad, it has become perfectly okay for people to not only NOT treat the handicapped like normal human beings, but rather, it is acceptable to actually single them out BECAUSE they are handicapped.

>

BUT, you don't see one-legged people doing the Amazing Race. Midgets, yes, but someone who's had a knee replacement? NOPE.

How soon we forget
http://www.realitytvworld.com/realitytvdb/sarah-reinertsen/biography

I would be surprised if all of the athlete types or older folks on the Amazing race were surgery free.

Anyone who wants to play should be allowed to play. If alliances had worked out differently, if Kelly B herself hadn't switched the first boot from Na'Onka to Brenda, then the whole season may have turned out differently for her. Or, if she had gone to Marty with Brenda's plan, she may have saved herself. Players can always maneuver, can always find a way to change their position IF they are allowed to play. Kelly B was a good casting choice.

As noted by Tribephyl, Chad's disability wasn't the reason for his boot. I always believed that Twila wanted to outlast Chad in that F8 endurance IC because she wanted to save Chris, her F2 alliance partner. If Chad had made that F2 deal with her, maybe she wouldn't have fought so hard to win the IC because jury appeal should only be a consideration around F4-F5, certainly not day 1!!

How the heck do you remember this stuff? Really how? LOL

LOL...I know really huh? I can hardley remember the last episode I saw let alone "xyz season"! Remembering the names, season AND specific details is amazing!

There was a "one-legged" person who did The Amazing Race - Sarah. She was a triathlete and did fine in the physical challenges. Her problem was her partner, he was a real tool.

In Survivor, Christie Smith, who is deaf, finished 6th. Chad, the other Survivor with a prosthetic leg, finished 8th. I don't have any problems with Survivor casting impaired people, they have all done fine. It appeared that Kelly B's downfall was Naonka and the fact that she had a prosthetic leg. Maybe the real problem was her personality. We didn't get to know her at all. Every group of people is different and you're going to get a different response every time so IMO, CBS did a good job of casting Kelly B.

LAST EDITED ON 10-23-10 AT 01:58 PM (EST)

"Impaired"?

"Handicapped"?

"Midgets"?

Folks, please refrain from using these words.

Christy, Kelly B, Sarah, et al, never used their disabilities to garner sympathy in the game and they all tried to act like everyone else ... so let's treat them like everyone else. To exclude them because they're disabled is discriminatory and, frankly, quite stupid.

We don't discriminate based on posters starting a pointless and discriminatory thread, do we? Why should that be any different from being on Survivor or working in an office, etc.?

I golf and bowl with a "handicap," and I do both of those quite well. I can drive a car while "impaired" and get home safely just fine, as stupid as that may be. On the other hand, if something or someone is "disabled" that means it doesn't work altogether. Did anything about Kelly B or Chad or Christy appear "disabled" to you?

So, no, I don't see how using the word "disabled" is more PC. If anything, it should be less, or it is just inaccurate. Kelly B was completely "able."

I am not trying to be self-righteous, just logical regarding the semantics. Anyone who lives or works with "the disabled" if you wish who wants to edumacate me is welcome to go ahead. I'm listening.

>

LAST EDITED ON 10-23-10 AT 05:31 PM (EST)

I'm deaf, and I'm also a college professor and serve on a committee for a provincial agency for the advocacy of rights for the disabled.

So, yes, I think I'm more than qualified to determine what is PC and what isn't.

If you want to be proud of being able to drive while impaired, then more power to you.

LAST EDITED ON 10-24-10 AT 08:02 PM (EST)

Didn't say I was proud of anything. Guess I deserved that though.

Indeed, you are more than qualified. You can trust that I am very qualified, professor, to advise you that you will find the quest to make online message boards a kinder, gentler, more PC place a very discouraging and thankless job.

>

Not just pointing at you in particular, but a general outline to point out the differences:

These are taken from online dictionaries.

Impaired = "damaged, diminished, weakened, functioning poorly or incompetently"

Handicapped = From Answers.com: Handicapped, a somewhat euphemistic term, may imply a helplessness that is not suggested by the more forthright disabled. It is also felt that some stigma may attach to the word handicapped because of its origin in the phrase hand in cap, actually derived from a game of chance but sometimes mistakenly believed to involve the image of a beggar. The word handicapped is best reserved to describe a disabled person who is unable to function owing to some property of the environment.

...

Term used to describe individuals with some form of disability. Use of the term is regarded by some as a form of negative stereotyping that prevents those with physical or learning disabilities from achieving their full potential.

Midget = an outdated term, 'little people' is the preferred term nowadays.

Disabled = Disabled is the clear preference in contemporary American English in referring to people having either physical or mental impairments, with the impairments themselves preferably termed disabilities.

Big difference between the words above, no? I'm not able to hear (ditto for Christy), so being labeled as one with a disability is very much true there. We can't hear! Kelly B hasn't had a leg since she was an infant, so she uses a prosthesis in order to be able to walk and run, which is no different from a deaf person wearing a hearing aid or a blind person using a cane. Now compare that to "impairment" which suggests that I am in some way damaged, diminished, weakened (okay, don't answer that!) and incompetent, according to the definition given above.

I think we can all take a cue from people like Christy, Sarah, Chad and Kelly B. They didn't make a big deal out of their abilities or disabilities, just focused on playing the game and for the most part, they survived or got booted/eliminated because of their game play, not because of any pity votes. Luke, well, he did show he was quite capable in terms of gameplay but did let some drama build up over perceiving that certain others were discriminating against him.

If I was on the show, I would almost certainly be inclined at some point to target the handicapped man/woman.

First and foremost because of the “anyone but me” principle.

Second (sort of a corollary): If I felt that I might be targeted at any point in time, it might be easier to deflect votes to the handicapped person using the "weak link" and the "sympathy vote" arguments.

Third, remembering the first BB when one legged Eddie won it all because America couldn't bring itself to vote out the poor guy. I know that America's voting tendencies and the tendencies of a jury of people that you've directly competed against would be different, but still, that would be in the back of my mind.

I kind of agree with Mindy. In a game where personal survival is the prime goal, putting handicapped people on the show is sort of pointless. Since everyone will want to target someone else, the physically handicapped people are walking dead as far as the show goes.

I was hoping the girl would do well. But as a viewer I have more sympathy for her than I would if she were one of those in-between me and a mill. Then, I might float that fake leg out to sea one night too.

Because if you're including intellectual and emotional inabilities to perform on an average human level, this show will become fourteen hours of abandoned beaches plus a special finale with a camera pointed at vacant seats.

Which admittedly would be an improvement.

Even "physically challenged" would be a pretty broad brush.

Would it be un-PC to suggest they have a Special Olympics version of Survivor?

(I don't know how else to phrase that).

Yes it is rather un-PC.

LAST EDITED ON 10-25-10 AT 08:34 AM (EST)

Sorry Pepe.

I hope you take it as a compliment that I never think of you as challenged in any way.

Christy, the deaf girl from S6 Amazon made it all the way to the F6 despite her handicap. The reason she was ultimately voted out was because she felt too secure being a swing vote for the two alliances remaining in the game, but was punished for her indecision. So she was voted out not because of her handicap, but because she was too wishy-washy.

Even if she committed to one of the alliances and made it to the Finals, sitting next to Jenna M. or Rob C. I don't believe she wins..."sympathy votes" or not. If she sat next to Matt she would have won, but not because of her handicap...but because Matt was a wackadoodle.

Ultimately the final decision rests not with Production, CBS, or MB but with the castaways themselves. The is Survivor 21. Kelly B. was keenly aware of what she was getting into, yet she still applied, went through the interview process, endured the two-week sequester the fianlists are subjected too, and probably signed on more dotted lines than President Obama during a 4-year Presidential term.

The only way I would personally have a problem with it is if special provisions were made or the show changed its format in some way to cater to a handicap and/or conviction of a particular casted player. To my knowledge I don't believe CS or MB did that with Kelly B., so it's all good IMO.

I would think that you would agree that the game has changed A LOT since S6. I believe that Christy, Chad or Kelly B would have been given a fair shot on S6 or any season prior.

Since S6, we've had a guy become famous for lying about his grandma being dead. We've had a winner from that same season who swore on her kids' lives, a feat now oft-repeated. We've seen players appreciated and glorified for their ability to betray and deceive; today that is now referred to as "game play." Lying is referred to as "out-witting." Now, the better FTC is the one where the player admits to doing whatever it took to win. Anyone who sits in FTC and acts honest is looked at as a fake. We had a guy win the fan vote by being a scoundrel. THIS is a far different Survivor than the days of Christy. In today's Survivor, a player like Alina would probably be criticized for aligning with Kelly B. Players like Brenda and Sash are perceived as "smart" because they target the handicapped.

>

LAST EDITED ON 10-24-10 AT 01:28 PM (EST)

You won't be surprised to read that I don't agree: It's still the same game. It has evolved but it's still Outwit, Outplay, Outlast and "lying" has always been part of the strategy. It's like a war or even a football game, you can't be honest with your opponents and let them know your plans.

Did you know that the two Jennas were responsible for Grandma's "death"? True story from JFP himself: He saw how much sympathy JLew got in Borneo when she didn't receive any family video and when, in Amazon, Morasca got Jeff and everyone to let her have the letter from her sick mother. He saw a way to get the same sympathy by 'killing" Grandma. Nothing more than game evolution.

As for Sandra swearing on her kids, she was practically forced to do so by JFP who was swearing on his grandma. It was legitimate defense because, if she hadn't, she was out. Anyway, it isn't any different than what we see every day in real life politics and publicity.

And funny that you draw the line at S7 as if Pearl Island was resposible for all this. No one was better at lying than your favorite ex-porn star, puppy killer, car salesman, S5 winner Brian Heidik. He lied to Ted and Helen and, before you say it wasn't the same thing, I invite you to read this:

http://www.averdata.net/~locbaseb/funny/75.htm

In PI, JFP's lie was actually considered funny afterwards. No one, except Sandra (but she doesn't like nobody) had the level of hate that Helen had for Brian.

The second best liar I'd say was your other favorite BostonRob. He wasn't so bad in Marquesas where John was the big liar but he didn't need JFP to establish his gameplan in @SS. Even good guy Ethan had to lie to Silas and Clarence while "nice mom" Tina lied to Jerri and Amber at every turn.

And wasn't Chad in S9?! How did he manage to make the merge if he came in a season that occured after JFP and Sandra had "corrupted" the game?

As for:
>"the better FTC is the one
>where the player admits to doing
>whatever it took to win."

We must not be watching the same show because that only worked for Todd and maybe Parvati. All the other recent winners: Yul, Earl, Bob, JT, Natalie and Sandra won the old fashion way: They were more liked than their opponents.

BTW, I think Brenda is smart because she managed to build bonds with everyone on her tribe to the point that KB didn't realize she was still an outsider for having targeted Brenda while Marty thought he had made inroads within the group!

Outwiting isn't simply lying, it is making others believe that you are not against them in a game where EVERYONE is against each other.

Ils sont fous, ces Romains!
Thanks Tribe!

Jon Dalton and his buddy were entirely responsible for the "dead granny" hoax they perpetrated because they perpetrated it. They don't get to make anyone else responsible for it, they did it, they are entirely responsible for what they did.

The game changed gradually. It didn't all happen during S7. I only used S6 as a focal point because Christy was on S6.

Nearly every veteran from Heroes vs. Villians remarked how much the game has changed.

It has changed A LOT.

>

>The game changed gradually. It didn't
>all happen during S7. I
>only used S6 as a
>focal point because Christy was
>on S6.
>
>Nearly every veteran from Heroes vs.
>Villians remarked how much the
>game has changed.
>
>It has changed A LOT.

Yes, veterans like Rob and Colby who said the new game was about keeping people in your alliance instead of keeping the tribe strong like it apparantly used to be. Yet they had voted out Hunter and Kel, the two strongest guys on their tribe, right off the bat!!!! They were simply complaining, not actually thinking about what they were saying.

Anyway, the game hasn't changed enough that Sandra couldn't win again by using the same recipe! Or maybe you'd prefer I admit Rob probably wins by playing nearly the same game he had in @SS if one of the new guys, Tyson, didn't mess it up entirely.

And Dabo, I used the word responsible for shock effect. The sympathy that the 2 Jennas received was the inspiration for JFP's lie. It was his lie of course but he saw how Survivor was opening the door with its cheezy family visits.

Yeah, I knew what you meant, I'm OCD for semantics.

I don't think the intrinsic nature of the game has changed BUT...

HvV brought out that there are big differences between old school players and new school players, in fact that probably should have been the theme of that one but they didn't anticipate it would be as major a factor as it turned out to be. And for all the twists and changes they've introduced over the years, which mainly affect only the course of the game, one change was shown in HvV to have been a factor in changing how the game is played. The HIIs. New school players think of the game differently because there is that prospect of individual advantage presented so early in the game, it becomes power politics.

There are so many ways to play Survivor, that you really can't make predictions based on one season, and you REALLY can't make predictions based on one TRIBE.

- Vote out the weak, so we go into the merge strong.
- Vote out the strong, so he/she doesn't go on an immunity run.
- Vote out the likable, because you can't win against him/her with the jury.
- Vote out the unlikable, because you can't live with him/her for the next 20+ days.

Had the tribes been split differently, she could have easily made the merge, and from there, anything can happen. Heck, had Marty/Jill not TOTALLY alienated Jane for the first 4 episodes, K.B. could have flipped on the younger tribe when the switch happened. Unfortunately, Marty had the HII, so he knew he was safe, and it (apparently) didn't occur to him to work on an alliance w/ anyone but Fabio. Because 5-1+1 < 3-1+1 in the grandmaster's mind.

Slice n' Dice's Sigpic Chop Shop 2004

>"Because 5-1+1 < 3-1+1 in the grandmaster's mind.

That's what we call Lisi Math!