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"Near Drowning?"
Posted by Krautboy on 09-17-03 at 00:57 AM
From Sucks
VolcanicGlass
Registered User
(9/16/03 2:04 pm)
Reply A near drowing
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
THE MIAMI HERALD - http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/entertainment/6785735.htm
September 16, 2003
Associated Press

Meanwhile, the seventh edition of the show, from Pearl Islands, debuts at 8 p.m. EDT Thursday. It features the biggest whopper of a lie told by a "Survivor" contestant and a near drowning.
When a contestant started struggling during a water-based challenge, Probst was on shore telling antsy rescuers to wait and see if the person's teammates would come to the rescue.

"I was on the beach saying, 'Hold off, hold off,'" he said.
-----------------------------------------------------------------


Could this new vidcap be the “Near Drowning” mentioned above?
Does it occur during a water challenge next week?
Is this event what causes someone to consider "to Quit or not to Quit?"


Krautboy

Table of contents
Messages in this discussion
"RE: Near Drowning?"
Posted by anotherkim on 09-17-03 at 02:14 AM

It looks like Shawn, or possibly Burton, to me. I am not sure who on that team would rush to the rescue in that situation. Probably Rupert and which ever one of those two it isn't.

Miscellaneous Ramblings
--has unnatural fear of drowning

"RE: Near Drowning?"
Posted by TeamJoisey on 09-17-03 at 02:52 AM

From the lack of beard growth, I'd say this happens pretty early in the run of the show. Not all beards grow quickly, but look at the CBS portraits of our choices and they all have substantial five o'clock shadow.

The chin looks a lot like Burton, although it could be Andrew, Shawn or Ryan O.

If Ryan O had trouble in one of the water challenges, that might explain why we've seen clips of him lying about the camp half-dead.
Maybe he IS half-dead.



These reality show contestants need a reality check!

"RE: Near Drowning?"
Posted by PackMan on 09-17-03 at 08:43 AM
I'm thinking this might be Burton. Maybe it's just the way it looks on my monitor (not the best quality by far), but the rounded face looks more like Burton than Jon or Shawn.

I think it's Burton for these reasons:

1) The lie seems to come to the surfce in the first episode.

2) The person in question is probably on Drake. If our other spoilers are corect, and Drake wins immunity, this would lead to his survival of tribal council.

3) We can eliminate Rupert, assuming he comes to the island with his beard fully in place.

4) The use of the the term "whopper of a lie" seems too convenient, and with Burton being from Texas, it seems to match.


So the lie seems to be that someone can't swim, but has touted themselves as an adventurer-type. If I were on the team that lost the first immunity challenge, I don't think I would keep them around after causing my team to lose, so it would tend to elminate anyone from Drake as the liar.

Fire away. Feel free to shoot holes in any/all of my thoughts.



If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when are you going to find time to do it again? - Anonymous

"RE: Near Drowning?"
Posted by VerucaSalt on 09-17-03 at 09:10 AM
Well to narrow it down

Burton says he scuba dives and was an Eagle Scout so I have a hard time thinking this is him.

Ryan and Shawn do not mention water activities but I read somewhere (I'll have to look) that it could be Shawn b/c he isn't a good swimmer or something like that but don't quote me there. It looks more like Shawn than Ryan to me also.

"RE: Near Drowning?"
Posted by tamarama on 09-17-03 at 03:59 PM
>>1) The lie seems to come to the surfce in the first episode.

2) The person in question is probably on Drake.<<

I missed where this info came from --

Can someone point me to the thread?

"RE: Near Drowning?"
Posted by Brownroach on 09-17-03 at 04:17 PM
The lie seems to come to the surfce in the first episode

Very doubtful. I think PackMan may be interpreting the "it" in this sentence to mean the debut episode rather than the whole series:

It features the biggest whopper of a lie told by a "Survivor" contestant

And we don't know which tribe contains the liar (though I myself would lean toward Drake at this point).


"RE: Near Drowning?"
Posted by jkokoj on 09-17-03 at 09:50 AM
I think this person may be one of the 2 below. The face is too full to be Ryan S. and Shawn lists surfing as one of his hobbies. My guess is that this is Ryan O. From his profile at CBS he is really into motorcross and does not list many other hobbies. He seems more of a land type guy.

compare to Burton:

compare to Ryan O.:

"RE: Near Drowning?"
Posted by mistofleas on 09-17-03 at 10:08 AM
Looking at the chin and eyebrows it sure seems to be Ryan O to me. It would make sense that if listed motorcross as a hobby but nothing of swimming that either had can't swim or was only able to get a few lessons in before he left for the Pearl "Islands". (Islands buddy, you know, those things surrounded by "water"!)

Next thing. This would have to happen in the first episode and fairly quickly. Like as they were thrown off the boat and made to swim to the island. There's no way he could keep his inability to swim from anyone, from both tribes AND from Jiffy and the crew as they were made to walk the plank and head to the island. Is this persons inability to swim the reason we see an orange raft in one of the other vid-caps?


--will find the vid-cap and edit

"RE: Near Drowning?"
Posted by jkokoj on 09-17-03 at 10:12 AM
LAST EDITED ON 09-17-03 AT 10:21 AM (EST)

Good thoughts Misto. What comes to my mind is maybe everyone (all the males) indicated they could swim or exaggerated their abilities. Then when they are told to walk the plank and swim to shore it comes out that someone can't really swim. This could be a lie of sorts. A big lie that could cost one team to lose many challenges. Although that did not stop Roger or Sean from being in the water.


Edited to add photos of Ryan O.

"RE: Near Drowning?"
Posted by mistofleas on 09-17-03 at 10:21 AM
As I looked at the preview vidcaps I see that they're given the orange life preserver thingys rigth off the boat:

So the "near drowner" would be saved the embarassement of revealing his inability to swim initially. Now, since EP1 will only have the IC and we know that will happen on land (cannon pulling) the "near drowning" will have to happen in EP2 (IMNSHO). I just don't see how a non swimmer would be able to keep it a secret much longer than 3 or 4 days.


--thinks maybe Ryan O. used her old gym class excuse of cramps to get out of swimming

"Episode 2"
Posted by bebekid on 09-17-03 at 10:36 AM
I agree with Misto. I think this happens in episode 2. I am not a strong swimmer, but I think I could manage to get to the raft.

And I agree with PackMan. This may be the "big lie" that is very regretable. Someone doesn't let the tribe know they can't swim, indeed, they brag that they are a good swimmer. Then said person nearly drowns, causing the team to lose a challenge. That person is subsequently voted off.

How much better for everyone had that person said up front at the beginning "guys, I'm not a real strong swimmer, I'll need your help"? The tribe would be prepared, and they would be able to trust the non-swimmer.

Have You Forgotten 9/11/01?

"agree on "big lie" candidate"
Posted by forehead on 09-17-03 at 10:44 AM
PackMan, bebekid,

Best explanation for the "big lie" I've read.

forehead

"Not a 'horrible" lie"
Posted by Krautboy on 09-17-03 at 12:16 PM
It would be a good explanation for a "big lie" but lieing about swimming would not be "horrible"...

JP:... "there are alot of things that play out. There is one of the greatest lies ever. It is a fantastic horrible lie."

A lie becomes horrible when it hurts someone else. Lieing about swimming puts the person themselves at risk but would not be "horrible"

I don't think lieing about swimming is what JP was talking about as "one of the greatest lies ever".



Krautboy

"Another JP lie quote"
Posted by AZ_Leo on 09-17-03 at 12:21 PM
On lying (by contestants, not producers): "There is the greatest lie ever told in 'Survivor' this season. It's brilliant. It's brutal and it's brilliant...My first reaction was, 'M- - - - -f- - - - -.' "

I don't think not being able to swim would elicit this kind of response.

I'll put the link to the full story in the Quote thread.

"RE: Another JP lie quote"
Posted by Krautboy on 09-17-03 at 12:31 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-17-03 AT 12:33 PM (EST)

Also sounds like a comment JP would make about one of the guys...
otherwise "b|tch" or some other phrases would be more likely used...


Krautboy

"RE: Another JP lie quote"
Posted by Brownroach on 09-17-03 at 12:54 PM
And also as if JP was not aware it was a lie, or was not aware that the lie was told, until it gets revealed after the fact.


"RE: Not a 'horrible" lie"
Posted by bebekid on 09-17-03 at 12:30 PM
You are right, Captain K. I guess that wouldn't be a "fantastic, horrible lie". I read speculation on another board that someone might lie about needing the money for a sickness in the family or something to that effect.

Anyway, IF a tribe member led the tribe to believe he was a good swimmer, and a near-drowning occurs, it could certainly have implications for the game.

AND we must remember that both Jiffy and MB tend to exaggerate, so who knows?

Have You Forgotten 9/11/01?

"RE: Not a 'horrible" lie"
Posted by kykate on 09-18-03 at 02:24 PM
I agree with Krautboy - Jeff said it was a "horrible" lie - a "brutal and brilliant lie". Not being able to swim would not qualify as brutal.
"RE: Near Drowning?"
Posted by FarmBoy on 09-17-03 at 11:16 AM
I know this is subjective due to monitor quality, etc....

The water in the "jump from the boat" caps is dark. Makes me think it was cloudy and the water is deep.

The water in the "drowning" cap is a brilliant color like you see near the beach on really sunny days.

Makes me think the drowning incident happens later on.


Bovinated- An Original Draco Masterpiece

"I just don't see"
Posted by anotherkim on 09-17-03 at 10:42 AM
the comparison to Ryan at all, but the rest of the theory sounds good to me. His nose looks a lot like Shawn to me:

Hrmmmmmm.

Miscellaneous Ramblings
--it should be easier after Thursday when we see them more mussed up

"RE: Near Drowning?"
Posted by kykate on 09-18-03 at 02:16 PM
From the eyebrows, it also looks to me like Ryan O. His eyebrows don't extend as far over his nose as do Burton's.
"I think it's Jon"
Posted by Brownroach on 09-17-03 at 10:44 AM
To me the drowner looks like Jon, who also doesn't list any proficiency with any aquatic activities in his bio or favorites. Here's another cap:

His hair looks longish, and you can see faint goatee stubble down the right side of the chin, which Jon appears to have:

If it's Jon, and the drowning cap is from a challenge, then these may be two different challenges since his buff is on his head in the "victory" cap and his hair doesn't look wet.



"EP2 Challenges"
Posted by Krautboy on 09-17-03 at 11:12 AM
BR: I think we may have identified two challenges from EP2. A water based RC and a dry land IC, which Drake apparently wins...


Krautboy

"RE: EP2 Challenges"
Posted by Brownroach on 09-17-03 at 11:23 AM
Yep, and Jon may be at the center of both. If the water challenge comes first and Jon screws it up, that might in part explain his delirium at winning the other challenge.

I'm wondering about that shirt, which as you pointed out, certainly looks different from Jon's ep 1 gray polo with white trim. The lighter blue shirt looks like Burton's.



"RE: EP2 Challenges"
Posted by FarmBoy on 09-17-03 at 11:52 AM

Maybe they won their clothes in the reward challenge(?)


Bovinated- An Original Draco Masterpiece

"Jon's shirt"
Posted by Krautboy on 09-17-03 at 12:22 PM
Looking more closely at Jon's shirt, and considering the non-existant waredrobe. The shirt is probably the same in all vidcaps being discussed, but the buff and the team mate wearing a blue shirt is different than how they were dressed at the end of the first challenge.

I would conclude that Jon's shirt is the same (just different lighting and vidcapping), but the challenges are definately different.


Krautboy

"RE: I think it's Jon"
Posted by wendyp on 09-17-03 at 11:51 AM
Not sure who is in the pic, but my DD has blonde curly hair ~ ringlets like Jon and when it gets went it is dark and long. Those curls stretch right out. Just and FYI about the hair

"RE: I think it's Jon"
Posted by Brownroach on 09-17-03 at 11:58 AM
The only other guy the hair could belong to is Rupert, and that ain't Rupert.


"agreed"
Posted by anotherkim on 09-17-03 at 01:07 PM

the second shot shows the hair and it can't really be any of the other.

Miscellaneous Ramblings
--wonder if he was pushed?

"RE: I think it's Jon"
Posted by tribephyl on 09-18-03 at 02:42 PM

This is undoubtedly Shawn. His ever present black rubber bracelet is making it's presence on the left side(his right wrist)of this shot.



Burton and Jon, neither one has the bracelet. Jon also has what looks like sand residue on his shoulder. They are both dry as well, Just look at Jon's hair. Meaning only, that he did no swimming.

... then these may be two different challenges ...

I believe you are right about this statement BR. Jon and Burton certainly are celebratory. Since Ryan S. is supposedly 2nd boot, we can assume Drake wins the 2nd IC.
Which leads to the Shawn "drowning" clip as being from the RC.
If Shawn is having trouble staying afloat (leading to JP telling the "lifegaurds" to 'Hold off!'in hopes of having the tribe go back to save one of their own) would his tribe sacrifice the RC to save his life?

Dare I say, Drake does not win the RC in ep.2.

As to Jon's shirt ... it does not look like the one he was dropped into the drink with.
Very prominent white stripes on that shirt.
He could have borrowed a blue t-shirt from someone else, yet, noone else on his tribe has a blue t-shirt.

If we can agree that these 2 shots are from ep.2, then it is possible(and from what Sue Hawk says. Probable.) that Drake wins the IC and is also rewarded with their personal belonings and luxury items. The blue tee was probably left behind in his bag and since Drake won the first IC he gets a different shirt to wear for ep.2.

tribephyl

"Shawn's Bracelet"
Posted by Krautboy on 09-18-03 at 03:41 PM
Tribephyl: Excellent vidcap analysis as always...

Here's another pic to support your observation:

Shawn with bracelet on his right wrist.

I agree, if the EP2 RC turns out to be a water based challenge, and Shawn is the "near drowning" victim JP described, then his tribemates probably do go back to help him, in which case Drake would probably lose the RC...

Early Spec for EP2: Drake loses RC.


Krautboy

"I'm contrary today"
Posted by tamarama on 09-18-03 at 04:16 PM
Do we know for sure the drowning incident is Ep 2?

The vidcap may not be from the near drowning, could Shawn just be coming up for a breath? Or was it apparent in the video itself?

"RE: I'm contrary today"
Posted by yensid on 09-18-03 at 04:25 PM
I had the same thought from the vidcap, but I didn't see the hole video so I am not sure. I haven't heard that the drowning incident takes place at the beginning, but if the drowning is due to not being able to swim (as opposed to fatigue or jelly fish sting maybe) then I would think it would most likely happen within the first couple of episodes.

YenSid

"RE: I'm contrary today"
Posted by Krautboy on 09-18-03 at 06:11 PM
Tamarama and Yensid: Contrary is good, it forces us all to be objective and consider all the possibilities!

You are both correct. It's very feasible that the vidcap we've been talking about is nothing more than Shawn coming up for air. It may even be him coming up after initially walking the plank. But if we find out there is an EP2 or EP3 water challenge, then we should revisit this speculation.

In afew hours the speculation will be flying fast and furious...


Krautboy

"RE: I think it's Jon"
Posted by Brownroach on 09-18-03 at 04:40 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-18-03 AT 04:43 PM (EST)

Nice catch on the bracelet, tp! Also, I like your explanation of Jon's blue shirt in the victory cap.

Now I'm confused, though. Shawn is a surfer -- he should be a good swimmer -- and the hair looks too long. Could that be Shawn's hand coming in to help Jon?

What do we think about this cap? (I can't seem to paste it in so here's the link):

http://resources.survivorphoenix.com/graphics/gallery/S7TVGuideHI/E01tvguide028

Successful rescue? Who is rescuing whom?


"maybe not a cap of the incident"
Posted by tamarama on 09-18-03 at 05:17 PM
The cap may be from a different challenge -- even though it looks kinda bad, he may just be coming up for a breath.
"RE: maybe not a cap of the incident"
Posted by Brownroach on 09-18-03 at 05:28 PM
Yeah, maybe. Or it might be the same challenge, but before the near-drowning occurs. Their hair doesn't look too wet here.


"RE: I think it's Jon"
Posted by Krautboy on 09-18-03 at 06:23 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-18-03 AT 06:25 PM (EST)

Great find BR. Here's the vidcap:

When I first saw this picture I couldn't figure out what Shawn and Jon were doing "holding hands". I like your theory that Shawn (the surfer dude, excellent swimmer) goes back to rescue Jon (who's hair length and goatee match the guy in trouble). The hand with bracelet is Shawn reaching around Jon's neck in lifeguard fashion to get him on his back and to help him back to shore.

Shawn may have swam back to shore with Jon on his back, hands around his neck. This vidcap captures the point at which the arrive back on shore...

In this scenario the result is the same, the guy in trouble gets rescued, but the Drake tribe loses the RC.



Krautboy

"RE: I think it's Jon"
Posted by mistofleas on 09-18-03 at 07:15 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-18-03 AT 07:15 PM (EST)

I'm gonna contrary here. I think that the vid-cap of the "drowning" is nothing more that someone coming up for air in a challenge. I think that if in the vid-cap of Shawn and Jon "holding hands" this was right after a rescue, they wouldn't have stopped in that deep of water and neither would be smiling so big.

If in fact as JP said, that he had to hold the rescue crew back from "saving" this person, whichever tribe member did go back to help would continue on to shore and make sure the drownee was alright.

Just my .02


--has put in so many .02 today that she's in debt up to her eyeballs

edited to say she happily got #69

"RE: I think it's Jon"
Posted by Krautboy on 09-19-03 at 01:39 AM
Even a stubborn German knows when he's probably reached a bit too far...have to say I probably agree with you Misto...especially since you've turned into Superspoiler Woman this season.


Krautboy

"RE: I think it's Jon"
Posted by mistofleas on 09-19-03 at 02:54 PM
have to say I probably agree with you Misto...especially since you've turned into Superspoiler Woman this season.

*swoon*

*faints from happiness*


--takes the above from Krautboy as a high high compliment

"RE: I think it's Jon"
Posted by Brownroach on 09-19-03 at 12:28 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-19-03 AT 02:12 PM (EST)

The cap in KB's original post is in the opening credits. Here's a clearer image -- it definitely looks like Shawn:

- 10

I concur: he's not almost-drowning here, just breathing. Whether the other cap is of Jon and whether he is almost-drowning or breathing, I'm not sure. The hand in that cap seems to be Shawn's, and the hand doesn't seem to belong to the person whose face is shown.


"Upon closer inspection"
Posted by PhoenixMons on 09-19-03 at 03:01 AM
LAST EDITED ON 09-19-03 AT 03:08 AM (EST)

There is NO WAY that hand could belong to the "drowning" person. This is most certainly someone's left hand, which wouldn't possibly be attached to the person "drowning" in this pic.

Here is the vid cap:

Here is the important part, enlarged a bit:

Note that the pinky finger is closest to the drowner, which is pretty much an impossibility if the hand belonged to the drowner.

It looks to me like the "drowner" is really just taking a breath and the "other hand" is placed where it is as aresult of him swimming next to the "drowner".

And it definitely looks like Jon is the "drowner" in the pic and Shawn is the hand (with bracelet) in the pic. Methinks this pic is probably NOT the near drowning - chances are the teammates wouldn't be in that close proximity during the near drowning (crew/medical staff maybe, but likely not teammates) if it was in fact during some sort of challenge...unless of course this cap is not from a challenge and we're just supposed to think it is? I haven't looked at Webby's caps yet...maybe I should go do that now

And as far as the "dry" team members, don't forget that there could be different "legs" to the challenege. Two survivors would never be sitting out in ep. 2 - either this is a picture from a challenge with different "legs" (some on land) or this is not an ep. 2 pic. If memory serves...I don't recall MB ever (or infrequently if ever) showing a scene from a FUTURE episode other than the one in question (the NEXT ep). There've been scenes from PAST episodes, but rarely, if ever (again, to my knowledge) from beyond the very next episode (not in the "next week on survivor" promos anyway). I think it's very likely that this challenege is one with varying legs and some portion of this challenge takes place on land...that or this cap is from the other episode's challenge?

Just some thoughts.


I *heart* my ©2003 GeorgiaBelle Creation
"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it" - Mohandas K. Gandhi

"RE: Upon closer inspection"
Posted by Brownroach on 09-19-03 at 12:18 PM
Phoenix, I thought the hand looked like a left hand too, but Shawn always wears his bracelet on his right wrist.

Simple explanation: the shot is reversed. We've seen reverse caps on numerous occasions.


"RE: Upon closer inspection"
Posted by PhoenixMons on 09-19-03 at 01:15 PM
But even if that is the case, the entire shot would be reversed. Either way, it can't be the person's hand because the hand in the shot is the opposite hand of whatever hand would be attached at that side, KWIM?


I *heart* my ©2003 GeorgiaBelle Creation
"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it" - Mohandas K. Gandhi

"RE: Upon closer inspection"
Posted by Brownroach on 09-19-03 at 02:10 PM
Agree -- I'm not saying the hand belongs to the person we are looking at. I don't think it does.

I'm saying: the hand is wearing Shawn's bracelet, which is always on Shawn's right wrist when we see it. For the hand to be Shawn's right hand, the cap must be reversed.


"RE: Upon closer inspection"
Posted by Chez on 09-19-03 at 02:45 PM
I'm not sure the "pinky" that is labeled is actually a pinky. Couldn't it be a bent index finger where we are looking at the knuckle and the rest of the finger is underwater? Then the hand does belong to the swimmer.
"RE: Upon closer inspection"
Posted by tamarama on 09-19-03 at 02:59 PM
>>I'm not sure the "pinky" that is labeled is actually a pinky.<<

I agree -- it looks like the thumb end to me.

"RE: Upon closer inspection"
Posted by tribephyl on 09-19-03 at 08:33 PM
I agree tamarama.

It's definitely Shawn's thumb.

tribephyl

"Not a pinky..."
Posted by PhoenixMons on 09-20-03 at 02:43 AM
You are actually right in that it's not a pinky...I actually was thinking it was his ring finger but typed pinky into the image...but when I look at it, I don't see HOW that could be the thumb side? Maybe it's just me but I don't see it at all..

But I guess it really doesn't much matter anyway since we've already established that it's Shawn's hand


I *heart* my ©2003 GeorgiaBelle Creation
"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it" - Mohandas K. Gandhi

"JP vs. Jon"
Posted by Brownroach on 09-17-03 at 12:39 PM
FSUGUY just posted this Craig Kilborn excerpt:

JP: We've got a guy on this season, I wouldn't say he's a jerk, but one of the most unlikable guys is this Jon Dalton, who people will know right away. He and I didn't get along day one. I was saying, "Jon just shut it, just shut it for a second, if I can just talk for one second then you can have the floor again." That was our relationship the whole time.

No wonder Jiffy was in no hurry to send the crew to the rescue!


"RE: JP vs. Jon"
Posted by AZ_Leo on 09-17-03 at 12:47 PM
If Jeff feels that way I can imagine what the tribe thinks of him. No wonder there seems to be some question as to whether the tribe will try to rescue him. It could also make him an early boot. Do you think the tribe would want to keep someone around that keeps bringing down the wrath of JP on them?
"RE: JP vs. Jon"
Posted by Krautboy on 09-17-03 at 01:04 PM
And if JP feels that way about Jon, I could see JP referring to him as a "M-----F---er" if Jon is the one who tells the horrible lie, and JP finds out Jon lied...


Krautboy

"RE: JP vs. Jon"
Posted by jkokoj on 09-17-03 at 01:07 PM
Very telling isn't it?! I still think it is gonna be about some sort of sexual contact. Jon is sounding like a real ass.

"RE: JP vs. Jon"
Posted by AZ_Leo on 09-17-03 at 01:08 PM
Except JP tends to sound impressed and even admiring about the lie in interviews but doesn't seem to have that same attitude to Jon. In addition to horrible and brutal, he describes the lie as fantastic, brilliant, and greatest.
"RE: JP vs. Jon"
Posted by Brownroach on 09-17-03 at 01:13 PM
Or maybe the lie is told by someone else about Jon. Someone who really wants him voted off.


"RE: JP vs. Jon"
Posted by AZ_Leo on 09-17-03 at 01:20 PM
That seems more likely. If the lie led to the removal of someone that was making life tough for JP, it would increase his admiration.
"the phrase M.F."
Posted by anotherkim on 09-17-03 at 03:15 PM
is also used as an expression of shock, so he may not have been upset with someone. He may have just been totally taken by surprise.

Miscellaneous Ramblings
--uses SOB in the same context. White trashy, but with style.

"Jon first from Drake?"
Posted by Krautboy on 09-17-03 at 01:20 PM
Good points BR and Az_Leo. The third boot is reported to be male. If Morgan goes to TC in EP1&2, Jon is looking like the prime candidate when Drake finally goes to TC...


Krautboy

"RE: Jon first from Drake?"
Posted by Brownroach on 09-17-03 at 01:48 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-17-03 AT 03:33 PM (EST)

From what we've gotten so far, I'm starting to think Drake's first TC is going to pit either Jon or Shawn against Rupert, with Sandra running interference.

If I can get it together at some point I'll organize the caps, but basically: a recent preview has Shawn dissing Rupert to Sandra, while she seems noncommittal (Michelle is also there)...

Shawn: I don't want to expend that kind of energy
Sandra: yeah
Shawn: Throwing a spear at one fish, that just sucks

There's also a cap of Rupert and Sandra in the water looking like they're having a serious discussion; there's a cap of Jon, Shawn and Burton standing and talking in the water without Rupert; and there's the Early Show preview of Sandra telling Trish and Christa about a conversation she overheard between some of the guys: "they said, 'dude, we have nothing but luuuuv for you'."

It all must mean something!


"Quit teasing me!!"
Posted by jkokoj on 09-17-03 at 01:54 PM
Yes it all means something, they are playing Survivor! LOL BR pull it all together baby!

Sounds to me like Jon is doing some major plotting early on and getting called on it.

"RE: Quit teasing me!!"
Posted by Brownroach on 09-17-03 at 02:47 PM
The various caps are all over the place so it'll take me awhile to pull it all together, Minnie (feeling lazy at the moment ).

Also, all the clips might be from Ep 1, so even if they do illustrate tensions in Drake, those tensions could get smoothed over before they ever have to visit TC. So maybe it's better if I wait until we see the Ep 2 previews.


"RE: Jon first from Drake?"
Posted by VerucaSalt on 09-17-03 at 01:56 PM
I agree with whomever said the almost drowning/big lie just doesn't seem related. Yes they hype but this is big hype for someone who lies about swimming? I can't think that would be it.

I go back to this:

Jeff also said that THE BIGGEST LIE EVER is told this season. He didn't elaborate, he went on to say that he and Mark Burnett are waiting for someone to apply to the show and basically say that they have an advanced degree in psychology, have written 3 books, but they are totally going to play the game like a postman from Montana (or something like that). Jiffy said they were waiting for someone to come in and totally lie their way through the game, but that they haven't seen anyone like that yet.

I know it states they haven't seen anyone like that yet. But I find it strange that he would immediately go from mentioning this BIG LIE to how he and MB are waiting for someone to apply who pulls a huge snow job in the game. To me, it kind of smells like a trigger reaction. Did you ever mention something and it "triggers" another thought? Perhaps I'm looking at this too analytically but why would you discuss a big lie in the current game and then just move on to what you would like for another game which just happens to be a whopper of a lie. I just find it a bit strange.

Now perhaps, to the degree they are waiting for someone to apply to do something this monumental, I get the impression that someone did something along these lines in this game but maybe not to this magnitude. How do you switch gears like that unless talk of the big lie triggered a reaction to say the next thing.

This is just me playing psychologist. Anyone want to be Freud?

"RE: Jon first from Drake?"
Posted by Brownroach on 09-17-03 at 03:08 PM
That was my reaction too, VS. Remember in S6, in one interview JP went off on a tangent about how you can have 5 vs. 3 and it becomes 4 vs. 4, and someone who is in the driver's seat talks up at TC and drives the car off the road? We all thought it might relate to a specific situation in the game but it didn't.

So I agree the lie might bear some connection to what he's describing here but it's not that exactly.


"RE: Jon first from Drake?"
Posted by AZ_Leo on 09-17-03 at 03:19 PM
Looking back that statement could be a description of several situations last season: The guys in the beginning, Roger, Deanna, Alex, Christy. It was almost to the point that if someone said they were in control that would be the boot that night.
"RE: Jon first from Drake?"
Posted by Brownroach on 09-17-03 at 03:26 PM
Right, but only generically. JP's specific scenario never happened, it was just a made-up example. I think this falls into the same category.


"RE: Jon first from Drake?"
Posted by tamarama on 09-17-03 at 03:48 PM
>>I agree with whomever said the almost drowning/big lie just doesn't seem related. Yes they hype but this is big hype for someone who lies about swimming? I can't think that would be it<<

You read my mind.

It also sounds like something that happens later in the game to me. I would think it would have to go on for more than 3 days in order to rate such a reaction from Jiff. (even taking hype into account)


"RE: Jon first from Drake?"
Posted by Brownroach on 09-17-03 at 04:05 PM
It also sounds like something that happens later in the game to me. I would think it would have to go on for more than 3 days in order to rate such a reaction from Jiff. (even taking hype into account)

I was just thinking about this too, tamarama. At least it gets brought to light later in the game. It might get told relatively early on.


"Big Horrible Lie?........"
Posted by smrtNsassybnkr on 09-17-03 at 04:11 PM
I know that "M-----F-----!" does sound as if Jeff is referring to a Guy, but after Veruca's post.....Christa comes to mind. She is presented as quite the intellect....with all those fancy books and all, and I wonder if she isn't playing the "dumb blonde" card, and scheeming behind everyone's back? She may not have a degree in psychology and written 3 books, but she sure seems to be presented in that same light of being a "brainy" gal.

When looking at the men, Burton did infact earn a degree in Philosophy.....while Shawn's friends and family have dubbed him the "Ultimate Salesman" AND he has a degree in communications. Either of these two men could be the culprit of the "Big Lie". Shawn may be a lot like Brian (Thailand), in that he would be able to BS his way through a "Big Lie" having all that salesman experience?

Thoughts?

"RE: Big Horrible Lie?........"
Posted by jkokoj on 09-17-03 at 04:18 PM
I just watched Christa audition video and profile from the CBS website. She comes off being a little ditzy to me. She does not keep one direct line of thought and seems to be a little "new age" without the passion for it.

As for Burton and Shawn both come off a little cocky. Not sure of their ability to BS other than to be charming and nice looking. At first glance they do not appear to have the same "air" that Brian did/does.

"RE: Jon first from Drake?"
Posted by AZ_Leo on 09-17-03 at 04:33 PM
Maybe there was a nugget in that VH1 special after all. I had the impression that the interviews with MB and JP took place while they were in Panama, although you can't really tell when. MB makes the point that Jeff is much tougher in TC than we see on TV and that he will shut someone down in a second if they give a nonsense answer or try to worm out of something. Although we've seen mean Jeff before maybe he was thinking about a recent incident? Maybe Jeff exposes the lie in tribal council? I could see Jeff praising the lie if it leads to great drama even though he can't stand the liar.
"RE: Near Drowning?"
Posted by yensid on 09-17-03 at 02:59 PM
Just my 2 cents.

Having watched the VH1 special on Survivor, I don't find it hard to believe that Jeff told the crew to hold off rescueing the drowner. In the special, Australia was brought up in regards to the cliff jump/water challenge and it was a known fact that Roger couldn't swim. The medical crew person was shown in an interview where the fact that Roger couldn't swim was brought up to MB and basically Mark said, so what. He has a team of strong swimmers to help him. The interviewee said from that point on, they build the challenges without regard to who would have an advantage/disadvantage.

YenSid

"RE: Near Drowning?"
Posted by FarmBoy on 09-17-03 at 03:58 PM

I can't help but think that the "biggest lie ever" is a JP/MB teaser and we'll all be going "That's it?" when it is revealed.

Reminded of Chip & Reichen's (TAR 4) "Big announcement".


Bovinated- An Original Draco Masterpiece

"RE: Near Drowning?"
Posted by VerucaSalt on 09-17-03 at 04:27 PM
FarmBoy, most definitely I agree with your thoughts but the way this is stated this time with the nice little M------ F----r and just the way he sounds almost in awe of what this person did, leads me to believe it is a bigger than the normal breadbox exaggeration they normally do.
"Big lie not a swimming lie"
Posted by Bebo on 09-18-03 at 09:25 AM
This quote from JP is in the Interview with FlmMaker thread:

its a flat-out absolute lie that one person tells everybody else, and they believe it. In fact, I'm sure that they still don't know its a lie and won't find out until they watch the show along with the audience.

If the lie were about swimming, the other contestants would have figured it out before airtime.

Fighting for evil (and neat forums) since 2002

"RE: Big lie not a swimming lie"
Posted by mistofleas on 09-18-03 at 09:46 AM
Agreed. On the Early Show this morning Probst said that Osten is "another person" that couldn't swim. So either Osten is the person that cannot swim this season (and it clearly isn't Osten in the vid-caps "near drowning") or there are 2 people that can't swim.

Either way, with Jiffy saying that he doesn't think the others even know about the lie to this day, it certainly can't be related to swimming.

Unless of course Jeff is sucumbing to the impulses to be like MB and overhype everything.


--wants the big lie to be something juicy in an "I'm really a man" kinda way

"Here you go Liar ID"
Posted by VerucaSalt on 09-18-03 at 10:00 AM
According to this article, Jon's pants are on fire.

www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/TorontoSun/Entertainment/2003/09/18/195614.html

Last two paragraphs:


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Probst says Dalton, an art consultant from Virginia, takes the prize for "squirreliest" contestant ever. He's responsible for "the greatest lie ever told on Survivor," says Probst, who's heard a few whoppers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It leads to the "biggest regret" and "the most dramatic, impactful twist yet," he says. Hey -- we thought Dalton told the biggest whopper. RRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrr!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"RE: Here you go Liar ID"
Posted by AZ_Leo on 09-18-03 at 10:36 AM
It leads to the "biggest regret" and "the most dramatic, impactful twist yet," he says.

I wonder if this is the same as MB's jaw dropping twist? All of the spoiler evidence for the twist being a return to the game shows it to be preplanned (special quarters, not letting them get out of shape, etc.). But Jeff indicates that he didn't realize the lie was told until after the fact. So either this is a different twist or MB didn't lie in his quote that no one returns to the game and the spoilers misinterpreted something.

"Lets be careful..."
Posted by tamarama on 09-18-03 at 10:59 AM
VERY interesting that Probst would NAME the liar.....

And the lie leads to the regret, which leads to the twist?

Sounds like the journalist may be making assumptions & squishing ideas together. Probst is pretty consistent in telling the same story to various press folks -- why would he tell this one who told the big lie?

I'm gonna take this with a big ol' salt lick.

"RE: Lets be careful..."
Posted by AZ_Leo on 09-18-03 at 11:04 AM
I certainly agree that's possible. I'm just trying to play devil's advocate and point out conflicting info so it can be knocked down or not.
"RE: Lets be careful..."
Posted by buckeyegirl on 09-18-03 at 10:37 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-18-03 AT 10:54 PM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 09-18-03 AT 10:40 PM (EST)
Edited because I just found Mistos thresd and my theory is no longer revelant.



A Kyngsladye Original
~should really read all thresds before posting

"RE: Big lie not a swimming lie"
Posted by ginger on 09-19-03 at 02:54 PM
Sort of an aside, but if you were serious about wanting to be on Survivor, or had been accepted and were waiting to start filming, wouldn't you run down to the Y and take a few swimming lessons just to be on the safe side?

>

"Osten"
Posted by cqvenus on 09-18-03 at 11:27 PM
I think this picture isn't the near-drowning.

I think Osten might be the near-drowning. There was a little bit of foreshadowing with his confessional saying he's not a strong swimmer at all and was really nervous to swim.

Or maybe I'm crazy and that was totally someone else's confessional. But I thought it was him.


- also doubts an eagle scout would nearly drown, but anything's possible with MB

"RE: Osten"
Posted by sorgee on 09-19-03 at 09:29 AM
nope. you are right. that was osten.

"RE: Near Drowning?"
Posted by DoodleBug on 09-19-03 at 01:21 PM
This frame was in the opening credits, right? I don't think this has anything to do with drowning.


or has someone else uncovered this and I just haven't read it yet?

"RE: Near Drowning?"
Posted by KeithFan on 09-19-03 at 09:47 PM
Yes, it is. While there may be a "near drowning" it is not this picture.


A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history - with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila.
Mitch Ratcliffe, "Technology Review" (1992)

"MB says, "There is no near drowning.""
Posted by anotherkim on 09-20-03 at 01:27 AM

in an interview from snewser's site, he is on a radio show and says:

Actually there is no near drowning....it's just stuff on the internet...like people predicting who wins...it's always wrong. There's no near drowning.

It's 1:58 into the interview if you want to listen. http://mfile.akamai.com/3310/rm/sportnws.download.akamai.com/3310/snr/mitm/misc/200309/mark_burnett.ram

The other thing he mentioned is that he already knows where S10 will be and to expect the All Star version at the beginning of the year.


Miscellaneous Ramblings
--cause we all know MB never lies

"RE: MB says, "There is no near drowning.""
Posted by 7sins_pride on 09-20-03 at 07:17 AM
well..it was fun contemplating who drowns.
"Bumping"
Posted by Bebo on 10-02-03 at 11:03 PM
LAST EDITED ON 10-02-03 AT 11:05 PM (EST)

n/m