In an earlier thread, folks were complaining about how the show has lost its charm because of CeCe's lack of change. Meanwhile, Season One was very popular, and the number one dork didn't change a single bit from opening frame to closing scene - speaking of Richard, obviously. Richard was horrible throughout, lacked any desire to change, and ultimately nearly ruined the show for me.

Season Two came with Josh, a person so irritating I wanted to strangle him through the television. His reluctance to drop the Woody Allen schtick made me continually root against him, while his partner was nearly as smart as any of the geeks, and twice as ruthless as any other player. Josh still remained annoying, to the point of stapling a teddy bear to the wall of a child's room in one challenge.

Now we've got CeCe, and it seems completely obvious that they chose her as this season's unchanging annoyance - a force that makes you wonder why they cast her, and root against her every week. All three of these folks advanced to the Finals, despite the fact that they seemed to gain little from the process.

My argument is simple... this is planned from the outset by the producers, for the sheer purpose of reassuring us that the others ARE changing, and "getting it." Everybody seems preferable to folks who seem this anti-social. For the producers, this provides needed tension to ensure that people root against somebody. Anyone agree?

• RE: Richard vs. Josh vs. CeCe... no change is a good thing.,amea_gari, 07:11 AM, 02-11-07
  • RE: Richard vs. Josh vs. CeCe... no change is a good thing.,tamarama, 10:19 PM, 02-11-07
    • RE: Richard vs. Josh vs. CeCe... no change is a good thing.,nazpink, 09:21 AM, 02-13-07
• RE: Richard vs. Josh vs. CeCe... no change is a good thing.,Loree, 10:47 AM, 02-13-07
  • RE: Richard vs. Josh vs. CeCe... no change is a good thing.,MKitty, 00:31 AM, 02-14-07
    • RE: Richard vs. Josh vs. CeCe... no change is a good thing.,JoeGazillionaire, 11:26 PM, 02-15-07

LAST EDITED ON 02-11-07 AT 07:16 AM (EST)

Reading these boards, I am constantly struck by a repeated theme. Casting. The people who cast these shows are being attributed -remarkable- powers of foresight. They must be drowning in psychology degrees and posses astounding insight, to be capable of the kinds of things they're being accused of on these boards.

C'mon. Casting is not an exact science. People are full of surprises, and a lot of what the producers -intend- to happen by choosing certain people and personality types doesn't occur. It's like mixing unknown chemicals. Sometimes the stuff that you thought would explode fizzles out, while other times the stuff that you thought would fizzle explodes.

On another note, I don't think Cece has ruined this season. Yet. A lot depends on the final episode, just like the last 20 pages can sometimes make or break a book. I've enjoyed watching it so far, but if she wins, I'll sort of feel misled. If she loses-- well, she goes home with nothing as surely as if she'd been the first one out of the house. And if people's speculations about the other teams coming back and passing judgment are correct, I'll be glad she stayed this long.

>>On another note, I don't think Cece has ruined this season. Yet.<<

I cautiously agree with you.

It was looking pretty grim for a while - but in the last week or two, we've seen ALL of the other women finally recognize how awful she is - even Megan. I'm also impressed that the men have gained enough confidence to flat-out tell her what they think--when they came into the house, the guys could barely speak to these women.

That, plus the fact that the final win is not quiz-based, but judged, will save this season. (NO WAY is she going to be given a win by judges.)

I do think, however, that the other women (and men) would have grown more had Cece not been there. It took too long to for them to see the light, and several weeks were 'wasted' by falling into that jr. high trap.

I also agree that the casting teams occasionally miss a trouble maker. Oh well. As others have said, I'm not going to completely stop watching a show because of one casting mistake.

For example, Top Chef casting was HORRIBLE this season. I will watch next season - though if next season starts to look like it's going in the same direction, I may bail until season 4.

As for past BATG seasons, I agree with Tom Servo about Richard - he was beyond annoying...but I liked Josh. I thought he was trying, he just had a much longer road to travel.

Change is different for each contestant. Sometimes it's a big and obvious change and other times it's something smaller and less obvious.

For Josh, his purpose of going on BATG was to change the anxiety he had around new people especially woman. I feel that he accomplished that goal. He went a long way from sleeping on the closet floor to a bed by Cher. Maybe he didn't change all that much in looks or extremely in personality, but he did make a change. I think it's rather unfair to catagorize him with Cece or Richard who's only change on the show was their underware.

Secondly, although I feel casting wasn't at it's best this season, I still loved every bit of it. I will watch again next season....I have not given up. And yes I agree that casting is not an exact science and sometimes certain contestants seem to make a good fit and end up not showing up with their "game face" but for the most part casting has a lot more insight on contestants than some would think. I think the "issue" with this season is that instead of seeing big changes we are seeing subtle ones.

For example, Niels changed his style and seemed more confident with his personality, but he didn't change his complete self. Megan started trying more on challenges and realized that sometimes she surrounds herself with shallow people <Cece>. Scooter seems to be more comfortable period but it's sometimes hard to see that change because he's always been mild mannered. Nate is more confident with pursuing other dreams, like comedy. So, all in all changes have been made.

Maybe, this season needed a Cece to make the others changes more obvious...I can agree with that, however I still think she is ridiculous..lol.

Richard and CeCe are alot alike. They both have this need to be the center of attention. And they used what they could to achieve that. Richard didn't want to change because then he would not have stood out so much and would have become more normal and accepted. Hiking his pants up under his armpits got him noticed. It is the same with CeCe and how she acts. She would rather be noticed for being the shallow mean girl than not noticed at all. I think whether she admits it or not she probably realized she was not the most attractive of the females. She had to have all the attention from everyone so she got that attention by being mean. It is better to have bad attention than no attention at all in their lives. Sad, but true.

I agree with you about Richard and Cece. Yes, every season has had its annoying person whoh doesn't seem to change. Sad, but true (to quote somebody.....LOL

I don't see the parrallels at all. I like Richard. He reminds me of the little hyper brother that tries to get your attention...or this little geek that you have to kind of protect. In his own weird way, he's just trying to make you laugh and make you like him....nothing mean-spirited about him. In fact, i would argue that he was one of the big reasons that the first season was so magical. Come on. The other geeks were so docile, you needed a "super geek" to stir the pot. When he hiked his pants and did that march towards the curtains, I laughed. Imagine that show without him.... all those docile geeks and Chuck pontificating about "the experience." I would have been bored out of my skull. Also, his interactions with Mindi, Scarlett, and Lauren were hilarious...they all seemed amused by him. And, I think it's not true that he didn't change. He had a fear of talking to women in the beginning but eventually warmed up to them....it's not like he's going to turn into a normal person overnight. Baby Steps. That's a huge difference from Cece. She seems to have no feelings for other people or puppies for that matter. She doesn't care who she steps on and refuses to take any cricism and just seems to have a very vindictive nature. It just gave me a headache. She wasn't the only mis-casting...a lotof the other "beauties" were kind of bland...as witht the geeks. I agree on Josh.. I kind of secretly hated him the most....with his annoying poor man's Woody Allen bit. He was so phony. But, I gave him a pass because it wasn't mean-spirited for the most part. Josh also wasn't as nice of a guy as he thinks. I thought he was quite a judgmental little guy.