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"If you don't succeed the first time, try again... oh wait..."
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 05-12-08 at 12:36 PM
WORST.FINAL.TC.PERFORMER.EVER

Amanda, grow some balls, will ya?

I mean, did she learn even one single thing from her first go-around at the China finale? Ugggh, she made me want to reach out through the TV screen and strangle her, kinda like Eliza saying she wanted to kill herself listening to Amanda.

She had the game completely in her hands and she fumbled it away yet again.


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Messages in this discussion
"RE: If you don't succeed the first time, try again... oh wait..."
Posted by Brownroach on 05-12-08 at 12:48 PM
Her opening statement was the worst.

When I saw Fanboy voting for her I knew she was doomed -- Fanboy never gets anything right.



Bleauin' ze bleus eaué, coeurtesie oeuf agmanne

"RE: If you don't succeed the first time, try again... oh wait..."
Posted by agman on 05-13-08 at 06:30 PM
Aint that the truth!!!



sculpted by Tribe


"RE: If you don't succeed the first time, try again... oh wait..."
Posted by frisky on 05-12-08 at 01:25 PM
>did she learn even one single thing from her first go-around at the China finale? Ugggh

Not to defend Amanda, but she didn't know the outcome of China's TC until she got back from Micronesia.

She probably came back to the States thinking she had them both in the bag with her Big Sad Eyes performances!


Perpetual *headbutt* compliments of Rolly.

"RE: If you don't succeed the first time, try again... oh wait..."
Posted by samboohoo on 05-12-08 at 02:09 PM
Yeah, but PG called her out on the whole deer eyes thing at the final TC in China. Perhaps she should have spent a little less time looking at Ozzy's reaction and more time looking at everyone else's.

Sorry, just not an Amanda fan. I didn't think there was anyone more tired of seeing her crap than me. And then along comes Eliza.



Tribe is pushing up my daisies!


"RE: If you don't succeed the first time, try again... oh wait..."
Posted by toddE on 05-12-08 at 07:03 PM
Well, I am super happy that Amanda didn't win, despite also being from Montana.

She is terrible at Final TC. Also, she is a total coattail rider, albeit a fit and attractive one. She rode Todd last time, Ozzy, then Parvati this time.

"Ozzy's girlfriend" isn't really a winning strategy, and she never got away from that, even long after Ozzy left. She did get better, though, and almost made a tie.

Parvati made this season. If it weren't for her, this could have turned out as lame as Palau or Fiji. Instead, it was one of the best Survivors ever!


"RE: If you don't succeed the first time, try again... oh wait..."
Posted by byoffer on 05-12-08 at 02:15 PM
she didn't know the outcome of China's TC until she got back from Micronesia

That's a very good point, Frisque, and one that I had forgotten. She didn't know that her China jury presentation bombed when she did the FvF one.

I think Amanda is actually fairly humble, and she obviously felt that to win the $1M she just had to be humble in the eyes of the jury. This might work for some juries, or some jury members, but the key is to read each juror. In fact, I guess the key is to read each juror and play to their needs throughout the season.

I was intrigued that this season had very little reference to Amanda maybe having won China. In fact, the only reference I can recall when they got to F3 or F2, and Parvati made some comment about Amanda making it far in China. Not even "maybe she won". Since last All-Stars all of the previous winners were automatic targets, I find it hard to believe that Amanda was a target or a "maybe target".


"RE: If you don't succeed the first time, try again... oh wait..."
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 05-12-08 at 02:21 PM
Still, I think James might have given her some indication of how the jury felt in China, plus I think Amanda would likely have figured out she didn't do so great if she was being invited back to perform in Half-Assed. Amanda would (should!) have also picked up on the visual cues from the jury while being grilled in China - you bring up a good point about Peih-Gee's comments, so Amanda should have taken that to heart to change her ways.

I personally don't see how Amanda didn't get some kind of indication that she might not have won in China. She was tight with James throughout the time they were together in the same tribe this season and with the hours and hours and hours in camp, you'd think James might have at least *hinted* at something.


"RE: If you don't succeed the first time, try again... oh wait..."
Posted by byoffer on 05-12-08 at 05:54 PM
James might not have been a good harbinger of what the jury was feeling, since he voted for Courtney last season.

Interesting that Amanda has had a vote from someone named Erik (Eric with a k!) in two straight finals. (that so feels like a baseball-type statistic)

I think if they bring her back for the next survivor she wins. She tripled her jury votes this time, and won't need many more to win the next season.


"RE: If you don't succeed the first time, try again... oh wait..."
Posted by Brownroach on 05-12-08 at 05:58 PM
See Webby's interview -- she says she knew she didn't win China.



Bleauin' ze bleus eaué, coeurtesie oeuf agmanne

"RE: If you don't succeed the first time, try again... oh wait..."
Posted by mocha madness on 05-12-08 at 02:39 PM
Richard Hatch was the gold standard for how to argue your case to the jury. You tell the jury you want their vote. You explain why they should vote for you, and you finish by reminding everyone that you deserve their vote, and you want them to vote for you.

Amanda has had two opportunities, and failed badly twice! If a jury member asks you why you did something or why they should vote for you.....you have have to respond. For example...Cirie opened the door, and all Amanda had to do was walk through it. Tell Cirie she was too powerful, and that was why she had to go. That gets Cirie's vote. Amanda fumbled again, and lost Cirie's vote, and provided a justification for every other jury member to vote for Pavrati.

Next.....throw Pavrati under the bus....talk some trash about her and how all she did was flirt. Explain with some passion that it should be YOU, and not the other person because you excelled in challenges, provided food, and you properly game played with the immunity idol....finish with I want your vote!

Two approaches do not work....."Gee I am really proud of my game....vote for me" or " I am sorry I lied.....vote for me."
Her effort was sooooooo lame.....I wanted to reach through the tv and strangle her because I knew she had snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

"RE: If you don't succeed the first time, try again... oh wait..."
Posted by Max Headroom on 05-12-08 at 03:04 PM
Agree completely, Pepe. I made a very similar case in my post in the "Another failure to close in TC" thread in Fanatics.

Amanda choked. Again.

"RE: If you don't succeed the first time, try again... oh wait..."
Posted by RollDdice on 05-12-08 at 06:28 PM
Pepe and mocha have got it covered.

I was voting "ABP"; Anyone But Parvarti. Amanda had it and shot herself in the foot (and higher).

By the time the Reunion Show rolled around, Parv had taken a crayon and piece of paper to try and pretend she had a master plan.




Hidden takeout, crouching cookie.
"RE: If you don't succeed the first time, try again... oh wait..."
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 05-12-08 at 08:07 PM
LAST EDITED ON 05-12-08 AT 08:08 PM (EST)

and yet, despite her lack of performance, everyone at my house was sad she lost and totally bummed that Parvati won. It ruined the whole season for me that P won. She was the one fave I didn't want to see AT ALL ever again and when the cast was announced, I was bummed. She did nothing this season to make me like her any better.

As far as I'm concerned, Amanda got the votes from the jurors I thought were good people, and Parv got the votes from the people I couldn't stand. With the exception of Cirie.

The fact that people can be assuaged by a little fake ego massage says something. Why should Cirie's vote be won or lost on something as lame as saying "you were a threat, Cirie." After all these seasons, isn't that transparent?

I think Amanda cracked at the end after two back to back stints.

As for Parv, she's the kind of person who does well on Big Brother; she has the right amount of soullessness to fluorish there. I'm just sorry she won Survivor.

"RE: If you don't succeed the first time, try again... oh wait..."
Posted by toddE on 05-12-08 at 11:18 PM
What I find interesting is that so many people love Ozzy and James. Those types have won Survivor before, but I find them uninteresting. I guess I just come from the viewpoint of, if this is all about being the most physically capable player, then watch sports instead.

I am fascinated because I just find Ozzy very unappealing and would never put him in the "good person" group. And I actually give Ozzy way more credit as a Survivor than James, who just seems like a friendly bunch of muscles. I don't care for Erik a lot either, except that i relate to his being starstruck by the favorites. I like all the people who voted for Parvati more than any of the people who voted for Amanda.

So that is perhaps a big part of the show's success. Sometimes I've quit watching before the finale because I had no one to root for or was just bored. Palau, for example. But to others that was a great season. I loved this season's outcome and honestly feel Parvati was a very deserving winner.


"RE: If you don't succeed the first time, try again... oh wait..."
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 05-13-08 at 02:11 AM
interesting, well, todde, I can tell you that my like of Ozzy, James, and Erik has nothing to do with love of muscles, and I don't watch sports at all, except for gymnastics at the Olympics.

James I liked for the funny things he says. Ozzy because he truly appreciates being on an island--and for his amazing grace in the water. Erik because he too has a sense of wonder. And they were all essentially honest people, which I admire.

My FAVORITE was Jonathan. Sniff. I also liked Ami. (And Amanda).
I thought Cirie was the best player who stayed in the game.

What did Parv really do? She was always in the majority, and she stabbed her good IRL friend in the back. She's full of herself for being "cute" and doesn't have a good sense of humor, and her smarts are only so-so as far as I can tell. Plus she's lazy. I don't like lazy on Survivor, never have.


"Lazy is as lazy does (nothing)"
Posted by RollDdice on 05-13-08 at 03:15 AM
I really agree with your last paragraph. Sums up Peversity well.

Jonathan should have won. If not him, then Ozzy for his physical skills and (lesser) gamemanship.

And exactly when did laziness become UTR and a strategy?

I worry that Survivor has become too formulaic:

First, everyone works hard so they're labeled as providers and strong at challenges. Then alliances start to form. There's a strategic vote-off of a strong player.
Tribes split and shuffled. Then Merged. Promises made and broken.
Eventually the women form an alliance.
Someone who's been pretty lazy throughout the game tries to get into the F2 with the person who's backstabbed the most jury members.
Read votes and hand out the big check.

Did I miss anything?


"RE: Lazy is as lazy does (nothing)"
Posted by Spanky68 on 05-15-08 at 12:55 PM
I worry that Survivor has become too formulaic:

I was thinking this a few seasons ago, and I asked myself why I still watch.

I guess the reason is that I am intrigued by the personalities and relationships.


Agman made this fancy sig for me

"RE: Lazy is as lazy does (nothing)"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 05-15-08 at 03:30 PM
The game may be formulaic, but personalities are never formulaic. That's why Survivor will always remain intriguing to me.


"Disagree"
Posted by samboohoo on 05-13-08 at 09:32 AM
About stabbing Ozzy in the back. Unless they had a deal that the two of them would stick it out till the end.

It's a game. Ozzy is a poor sport and a sore loser. If Ozzy can honestly say that he would have taken Parv over Amanda, then I could maybe see it. Ozzy literally made his bed.



Tribe is pushing up my daisies!


"RE: Disagree"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 05-13-08 at 11:09 AM
Yup. There was no chance in Hades that Ozzy would take Parvati over Amanda to the F2 if he was still there, so by that reason alone, it was a fantastic move for Parvati and Cirie to take Ozzy out right there and then. When would be the next opportunity to take Ozzy out, considering he would still have had the idol and is a major challenge hog?

Ozzy screwed up, plain and simple. He played a terrible game when you look at it from a social point of view - he became so arrogant that he expected everyone to snap to attention whenever he spoke and he was so arrogant he didn't feel a need to play the idol even when others were making it known they were targetting him. Idiot. He deserved the blindside he got.


"RE: Disagree"
Posted by Travel_Queen on 05-13-08 at 11:14 AM
>About stabbing Ozzy in the back.
> Unless they had a
>deal that the two of
>them would stick it out
>till the end.
>
>It's a game. Ozzy is
>a poor sport and a
>sore loser. If Ozzy
>can honestly say that he
>would have taken Parv over
>Amanda, then I could maybe
>see it. Ozzy literally
>made his bed.
>
>
>
I don't want to beat a dead horse because its over, but I've been thinking about why Ozzy (and James)would be so bitter against Parvarti and not Cerie..he must have known that they were equally responsible for his blindside. This is my opinion; although no one from the couples alliance has confirmed it, I think that initially, the Malakal group of Favs were losing immunities so that Parvati and James were spared and saved from being booted at TC (Jonathan and Eliza had made some connections with the Fans at Airai and could have done this easily). I think these Favs were very very smart, and had a forward thinking agenda. So, Amanda, Ozzy, Cerie and Ami were tanking the ICs. So, therefore since Ozzy et al had "saved" Parvati from being booted, wouldn't they expect the same loyalty later on?
"RE: Disagree"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 05-13-08 at 12:02 PM
I think the difference is that Ozzy felt he had an original alliance with Amanda, Parvati and James, while Cirie was seen as a disposable fifth wheel in that alliance.

So, while Cirie was equally responsible (if not more) for the Ozzy boot, the Parvati involvement hurt more to Ozzy because she was, in Ozzy's eyes, a more integral part of the alliance than Cirie was.

Does that make any sense?


"RE: If you don't succeed the first time, try again... oh wait..."
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 05-13-08 at 11:06 AM

>What did Parv really do?
>She was always in the
>majority, and she stabbed her
>good IRL friend in the
>back. She's full of
>herself for being "cute" and
>doesn't have a good sense
>of humor, and her smarts
>are only so-so as far
>as I can tell.
>Plus she's lazy. I
>don't like lazy on Survivor,
>never have.

Friendships in real life should NEVER have an impact on the game in Survivor. It's called Survivor where the goal is to outplay, outlast, and outwit. There's time to be friends after the show, but it's a million-dollar game. I've never understood why people like Lex got their pants in a knot over Rob's maneuvers simply because they owe their friendships?

About Parvati... well, she had the presence of mind to set up a second alliance and that was what won the game for her over a loyal Amanda. Parvati was correct in that she likely wouldn't have been there at the end of the game if she stuck solely with Ozzy and James -- and really, it got her to the end of the game, so it was a brilliant strategy. Natalie and Alexis voted for Parvati because of that alliance while Amanda didn't get their votes.

Lazy? Well, Parvati did learn a lot about how to find her own food and go fishing etc. from the reward challenge with the two natives - there were subtle hints throughout the game where Parvati applied what she learned, such as telling James how to fish, using the machete, etc. If I'm on Survivor and I have other people in camp who want to work their butts off, I'm going to take advantage of it, help out where I can but save my energy as much as possible for the challenges. Parvati did what she had to do in order to win, so how can we fault her strategy? It got her the win, half because of her ability to develop friendships and half because Amanda had no gumption to be aggressive in her final statements.


"RE: If you don't succeed the first time, try again... oh wait..."
Posted by Brownroach on 05-13-08 at 12:21 PM
Couldn't agree more about the "but we're friends in real life" whining. You both went back to play the game again, hopefully to win this time. Leave the friendship back in the states, you can pick it up when you get back. While you're there, PLAY.THE.GAME. And don't complain if your friend plays it better than you.

I'm glad that Parvati won, I think she did pretty much everything right.



Bleauin' ze bleus eaué, coeurtesie oeuf agmanne

"RE: If you don't succeed the first time, try again... oh wait..."
Posted by PsychoKitty on 05-15-08 at 10:07 PM
"By the time the Reunion Show rolled around, Parv had taken a crayon and piece of paper to try and pretend she had a master plan." Hilarious RollDice!!!!

Not that I have an opinion one way or another ;)
Signature by tribephyl

"RE: If you don't succeed the first time, try again... oh wait..."
Posted by byoffer on 05-14-08 at 02:10 PM
I've admitted to being an Amanda fan, but I don't see a market for this...
http://www.theamandakimmel.com/store.php

Anyone want an Amanda bikini poster in their bedroom??

Does this indicate that she an sex-show-Ozzy are a good match in the DAW-at-any-cost category?


Note that I am posting this in Bashers for a reason.

"RE: If you don't succeed the first time, try again... oh wait..."
Posted by Travel_Queen on 05-14-08 at 05:32 PM
Did they let her take the immunity necklace home?

"RE: If you don't succeed the first time, try again... oh wait..."
Posted by samboohoo on 05-15-08 at 09:08 AM
*puke*

Make her go away. Please make her go away.



Tribe is pushing up my daisies!


"RE: If you don't succeed the first time, try again... oh wait..."
Posted by ADKer on 05-14-08 at 11:32 PM
I do not believe that anything Amanda said to Cirie would have resulted in Cirie voting for Amanda. I believe Cirie's line of thinking was that Amanda cost Cirie $1 million by picking Parvati; Cirie was returning the favor to Amanda. I don't believe that anything Amanda said would have changed Cirie's vote. Cirie's question was designed to hurt Amanda with the rest of the jury. Also, Jason has too much jealousy of Ozzie to vote for Ozzie's girlfriend. The only additional vote that Amanda might have gotten was Eliza. Eliza and Amanda have radically different personalities and approaches to the game. Eliza approaches the game as a player. Amanda is sincere and Eliza did not believe the sincerity. Parvati's approach to the game is closer to Eliza's and Parvati therefore had more credibility to Eliza.
In other words, the best Amanda could have done was a tie and she lost because of who was on the jury and not because of her performance at final tribal council.
"RE: If you don't succeed the first time, try again... oh wait..."
Posted by Outfrontgirl on 05-15-08 at 09:58 PM
I agree with that assessment, ADKer.

TV editing makes it seem like the Final TC is all-important, but these people have lived together closely and have had plenty of time to decide who they want to win before they get to the Final TC. I don't believe a few questions truly outweigh all the other factors. Amanda fumbled Erik's question but he still voted for her.

Take a look at post-swap pre-merge tribal make-up.
Parvati was on a tribe and competed with Jason, Alexis, Eliza, and Natalie. She got all their votes. She had clean hands on Cirie's boot, and she got her vote. Parvati lost James' vote, which she had wrapped up prior to the Ozzy boot.

Amanda did not get swapped, and she merged with a post-swap tribe that were represented in the jury pool by Cirie, Ozzy, Erik. She got two of those votes, and lost Cirie. She merged with 3 of the ultimate jurors coming from her post-swap tribe. Parv merged with 5 of the jurors because her NuMalakal tribe won more post-swap challenges.

Some of you see great gameplay. I see a jury that split fairly cleanly along pre-merge lines. I see Jason voting against Ozzy, because he was just that obsessed. Plus, Amanda never had a chance at winning the female alliance vote that included two players on Parv's former tribe.

The only chance Amanda had was to get Eliza'a vote, and Eliza doesn't like pageant girls, thought Amanda was boring, isn't a survival type, isn't good at challenges, and so had a fundamental personality divide between herself and Amanda.

As to why I dislike Parvati -- I just don't care for women who are proud of manipulating men with their sexuality. I guess I've known too many damaged men who had their faith in women shattered by encounters with her type of girl.

I think a woman's alliance would be fine but the whole gloating and cackling scene over how they were leading the men around like fools was very off-putting to me. They were fooling Jason, you know? And Erik. Not exactly brain trust material.

"RE: If you don't succeed the first time, try again... oh wait..."
Posted by dabo on 05-16-08 at 01:47 AM
Eliza told both of them what she wanted from them, though. She called out Amanda for being superficial, she called out Parvati for being cruel. After Eliza sat down Amanda forgot about what she'd said, Parvati didn't.

I actually wanted Cirie to win, she was the most influential dominant player in the game. But it seemed clear to me a lot of the women vs. men attitude was generated by Cirie, she fed and fanned that fire, to keep the alliance together.

"RE: If you don't succeed the first time, try again... oh wait..."
Posted by michel on 05-16-08 at 02:43 PM
>"I see a jury that split fairly cleanly along pre-merge lines"

But it's still partly Amanda's fault that she had less former Malakal on the jury. Take the challenge where Cirie and Amanda had a lead in solving the square puzzle only to have Eliza and Jason beat them. If Amanda wins that challenge, one of Jason, Eliza... or Parvati (!) doesn't make the merge.

I usually agree that players base their votes on what they saw for however long they were in the game but this time it seems the Tribal actions and answers were key. Eliza, Cirie and Alexis have all said so. They even added that what killed Amanda were all the fake tears that she shed but weren't all shown on TV before popping out the HII at F6. Remember Amanda saying her tears at TC were genuine? Amanda was talking about the F3 tears where she had to vote out Cirie. The jurors were thinking of the tears at F6 where she was acting. Eliza wrote that "Parvati blew away Amanda with her answers." Coming from a student lawyer, I guess I'll buy that.