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"Politics (second houses)"
Posted by Starshine on 01-21-13 at 01:02 PM
Be gently with me!

As a part of the deal with the LibDems it looks as though people will be looking at giving us a second elected house of parliament instead of the appointed (sort of) one we have at the moment.

Now this non-elected house was the only thing between tony blair and his most iniquitous civil rights grabs, so as his mini-mes may get into power again this worries me.

So can you tell me how an elected second house works, and how it differs from the first house? I mean if they are elected then surely they suffer from the same threats from the party machinery that the first house does and aren't much more than a rubber stamp?

Lovely cheese Mooney

Where are Voice of the Beehive when we need them?


Myself if we have to change it I like the idea of a lottery, or even a complete reset Street => Ward => District => Area => County => National system.

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Messages in this discussion
"RE: Politics (second houses)"
Posted by Snidget on 01-21-13 at 02:19 PM
It is going to depend. Do they have to be the same party as the PM and will you change them every time you change PM's or is it going to be decoupled from that in any way?

Because if you give the people any chance to vote for one portion of gov't to be from the opposition party they seem to generally vote (as a collective) to maximize gridlock. Once in awhile we do vote so that all the parts are driven by the same party, but it never lasts for long.

"RE: Politics (second houses)"
Posted by Molaholic on 01-21-13 at 02:32 PM
Not sure how your second house is going to be set up, but here in the States were have two Houses of Congress, the Senate and the House of Representatives.

The Senate: Two members from each state (total of 100), elected to serve six-year terms. One-third of the Senate is up for grabs each two-year election cycle.

The House of Reps: Allocated by population for each state, ranging from 1 for low population states like Alaska to California's 53 seats for a total of 435 members. All seats up for election each two-year cycle.

The District of Columbia and other territories (Puerto Rico, Guam, etc) also have delegates in each house who can serve on committees but do not have voting privileges.

Each House has specific duties and responsibilities outlined in the Constitution, with the power to pass some laws independantly while others require a joint committee to reach a compromise.

This plan was set up by the founding fathers to give the different states parity in Congress. In the Senate, all states are equal, regardless of size, while in the House the more populous states have more power.


Capn2Patch siggiefest Twenty Ten

"RE: Politics (second houses)"
Posted by AyaK on 01-22-13 at 01:56 AM
One correction: neither house in the US can pass a law all by itself. Both houses have to concur on the exact same wording to pass a law.

The Senate does have some powers reserved exclusively to it. For example, judges appointed to federal courts only have to be confirmed by the Senate. Same for Cabinet-level officials. But all laws have to be passed by both houses.

There is a rule that all bills that involve federal spending have to originate in the House. But that's easy to bypass, because there are a number of bills that are approved by the House and sent to the Senate to die. The Senate can take one of those bills, if it originally dealt with a spending issue, strip all of the existing language out of the bill, and substitute completely new language. That's enough to satisfy the "had to originate in the House" rule. No joke.

"Simple answer."
Posted by Estee on 01-21-13 at 03:05 PM
It is politics.

Therefore, you are screwed.

"RE: Politics (second houses)"
Posted by kingfish on 01-22-13 at 01:12 PM
The process is:

1. Members of such a house are elected by intelligent voters using fair and democratic means, and all is sunshine, roses, and uplifting celebratory speeches. .

2. They break your hearts and all explicit and implied promises.

(Echoing Estee's reply. Thus enabling one to understand definite advantages of a benevolent dictatorship).

"RE: Politics (second houses)"
Posted by AyaK on 01-22-13 at 10:45 PM
I'm amazed by the idea that there are 775 members in the House of Lords, and the reform proposal only cuts it to 450. That's ridiculously high for an "upper house".
"Politics stink"
Posted by moonbaby on 01-22-13 at 02:36 PM
and apparently so does the air over there today. Did you happen to catch a whiff of the French Stench?

Amusing version of the story here:

"It's like one of those 'you-know-what's' my nephew does.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-great-french-stench-sulphur-with-sooty-notes-like-boiled-egg-singed-with-a-blow-torch-8462101.html

I fart in your general direction, indeed.


"RE: Politics stink"
Posted by Starshine on 01-22-13 at 04:34 PM
LAST EDITED ON 01-22-13 AT 04:37 PM (EST)

Managed to avoid it

Although I suspect they will be burning the Indie in the streets of Redhill tomorrow for saying it's in London!

Although Dave is finally giving his Europe speech tomorrow (the one that the US and Germany have asked him to think very hard about) and I suspect that this may be a pre-emptive strike

"RE: Politics stink"
Posted by AyaK on 01-22-13 at 10:40 PM
Those few Americans who know who Philip Gordon is from his days at the liberal Brookings Institution also know that Philip Gordon would be happiest if the traditional high-tax French model of François Hollande became the dominant model in Europe.

Thus, we expect him to undercut everyone in Europe except Hollande.