LAST EDITED ON 03-27-03 AT 06:51 AM (EST)

Deena's confessionals in last night's episode were very interesting.

Deena is extremely very sure of herself: "this is MY game". I can't help wondering if her comments are foreshadowing (a la Dicque's "write me the check right now" in ep1 of S1) or irony (will her cockiness come back to bite her in the butt)?

I don't have exact quotes, but several times she ranted about the men and how stupid they were to underestimate the women. To Virgin Rob (who I guess she doesn't count as a man ) she even said, "Never underestimate the power of a woman."

The one confessional where she said so confidently, "This is MY game" makes me think there's a comeuppance a'comin. But she did state accurately that "the men" are going to be sweating. (Thank god she did not add "in their panties".)

Foreshadowing of her victory, or irony?

Any thoughts?

• RE: Deena - foreshadowing or irony?,SurvivinDawg, 07:32 AM, 03-27-03
  • RE: Deena - foreshadowing or irony?,OBX, 08:39 AM, 03-27-03
    • RE: Deena - foreshadowing or irony?,Loree, 10:32 AM, 03-27-03
      • RE: Deena - foreshadowing or irony?,Brownroach, 11:02 AM, 03-27-03
• RE: Deena - foreshadowing or irony?,smiley, 07:54 AM, 03-27-03
  • RE: Deena - foreshadowing or irony?,Loree, 10:37 AM, 03-27-03
• RE: Deena - foreshadowing or irony?,colbyrules, 09:25 AM, 03-27-03
  • RE: Deena - foreshadowing or irony?,Loree, 10:41 AM, 03-27-03
  • RE: Deena - foreshadowing or irony?,Bebo, 11:33 AM, 03-27-03
  • RE: Deena - foreshadowing or irony?,SurvivinDawg, 11:37 AM, 03-27-03
• RE: Deena - foreshadowing or irony?,ulalame, 11:05 AM, 03-27-03
• RE: Deena - foreshadowing or irony?,Brownroach, 11:10 AM, 03-27-03
  • RE: Deena - foreshadowing or irony?,snoocharoo, 11:58 AM, 03-27-03
    • RE: Deena - foreshadowing or irony?,managerr, 12:05 PM, 03-27-03
    • RE: Deena - foreshadowing or irony?,Loree, 12:06 PM, 03-27-03
      • RE: Deena - foreshadowing or irony?,snoocharoo, 12:13 PM, 03-27-03
    • RE: Deena - foreshadowing or irony?,ElroyJetson, 12:14 PM, 03-27-03
      • RE: Deena - foreshadowing or irony?,snoocharoo, 12:16 PM, 03-27-03
        • RE: Deena - foreshadowing or irony?,ElroyJetson, 12:27 PM, 03-27-03
    • RE: Deena - foreshadowing or irony?,wendyp, 05:26 PM, 03-27-03
• RE: Deena - foreshadowing or irony?,jkokoj, 12:21 PM, 03-27-03
• RE: Deena - foreshadowing or irony?,Chez, 12:50 PM, 03-27-03
• RE: Deena - foreshadowing or irony?,DoodleBug, 12:52 PM, 03-27-03
  • RE: Deena - foreshadowing or irony?,toddE, 06:37 PM, 03-27-03
  • RE: Deena - foreshadowing or irony?,agua azul, 09:12 PM, 03-27-03

More like foreshadowing her booting, as well as irony.

I was just about to post something along these lines.

Don't forget the rule that MB readily shows failed alliances and plans, and hides successful ones until they absolutely must be shown. We've been shown a lot of Deena in general, lately. We've been shown a lot of Rob, lately. We've been shown a lot of Deena and Rob and their alliance, lately.

So is this the pairing that gets to the Final Two, or even the Final Four? Not sure yet, but if I had to be money now, I'd bet against it.

Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

LAST EDITED ON 03-27-03 AT 08:42 AM (EST)

deena/rob have been shoved in our faces so much the past couple of episodes it can only mean they are being set up for failure.

i still think the christy/butch/jenna/? final 4 will stand with heidi 5th. who's the male in that position? not rob, probably not alex. i think the matthew psycho thing is a misdirect as well so i'm guessing its him. he's not in a targeted alliance so might be regarded as a non threat and overlooked and finishes second. deena rob and dave will have targets on their backs that im afraid they will not be able to avoid.

maybe matthew will cruise along under the radar long enough to get to a point that an immunity win or two will put an alliance into a position of having to vote off one of their own because he's safe.

As time goes by I can see Matthew being kept for the final 2. Everyone will think they can win a vote against Matthew. Roger even said this morning on TES that Roger hoped he himself would be kept for the final because the others would think they could beat him. Well after seeing Matthew go a little bush crazy everyone might be thinking he is an easy one to beat.

I started thinking this last night too, Loree. And it fits with the ChillOne spoiler that the F2 woman was "liked better" than the F2 man. The sources may have determined this because they tuned into conversations about keeping "unlikeable" Matt around as a strategic move.

Its hard to say..... Last season Brian was cocky from the get go. Always about his game and his strategies. I really like Deena and I hope she does win....I guess we will see

I believe MB got alot of upset after Vee won S4. Nobody knew where that win came from. We never saw her strategy or anything. The audience was not happy. So I believe in S5 MB decided to show us upfront how Brian was going to win. It was in our faces. But I do not believe MB would do this twice in a row. Because of this I do not think Deena will win. She is getting very cocky and sure of herself. Just right for a big fall. And Rob will fall too. He is our funny man that doesn't win the game.

But people like Butch and Jenna are really in the background. I think they will go far. We haven't seen their story yet.

Rob can really turn the tables if he is smart. I think Rob should reunite old Tambaqui and go after Deena for several reasons:

1) It would create a 5-4 advantage. With Roger gone, Rob's place in Tambaqui is more assured. None of the other men have said anything overtly negative about Rob.
2) I don't trust Deena. After eliminating Butch and Dave, the girls would have a 4-3 edge, and Deena is extremely pro women. A M/F F2 would be detrimental to the female finalist as it would put a 4-3 male majority on the jury.
3) Eliminating the strongest strategic thinker among the women would leave a leadership vacuum among the remaining women.
3) Within an F5 of all men, Rob has a fairly solid 3-some with Matt and Alex. Within that 3-some Rob is tight with Matt and Alex. I kinda see Rob as this season's Brian, sort of keeping his tentacles out to everyone, cutting a lot of deals.

Tactically, Rob has to win Dave back and convince him that his vote for Roger was made to trick the women into thinking he is loyal to them, when in reality the men are still up 5-4. If he can win Dave over, I'm sure Butch would follow and it's straight to the F5.

This would be smart for Rob. But I don't think Rob always thinks clearly when cute young chicks are involved. He gets very upset and jealous of the other young guys. He seems so excited about being in the final few with the girls. He should realize that the girls will turn on him and he is out-numbered. Time for the Magic 8 ball to give him a clue.

I disagree, because I believe that Rob going after Deena would guarantee him second place at best. None of the women would vote for him to win after he stabbed them in the back, which would be handing 4 jury votes to anyone who went up against him in a final 2.

A Bebodacious American

I think Rob would be *DUMB* to betray his present alliance right now. He's got an almost clear ticket into the Final Four or Final Three, and all he needs is a chance at that last Immunity.

To betray his alliance now will mean an almost sure booting by everyone at the first available opportunity.

Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

LAST EDITED ON 03-27-03 AT 11:13 AM (EST)

I think that, as eloquently put in Ivory Elephant's thread, "pride cometh before a fall," and that this includes Deena. Although Brian was shown being cocky last season, it was never this over the top. Deena's storyline seems more like the "Rotu 4" storyline in S4, where the underdogs got together to take out the ruling alliance.

I don't think we'll see exactly the same thing here, but I'm betting that Deena will not make the final four, and will be backstabbed, in part, by her own alliance.

Rob, in my opinion, is sitting in the catseat right now. Although in his confessionals he has revealed his strategy, he has NOT done so overtly to the other players. If anything, his play and editing is most similar to Brian in S5 -- he was cocky in private, but not in front of the team. Deena has been making statements like "never underestimate the power of a woman" and "so long as I outlasted Roger I'm happy" in the open, which bespeaks the kind of arrogance that has taken down many a survivor in the past.

Edited to add: Indeed, Rob, to the other players, has played the follower or the "subservient" one. He certainly was not butting heads with Roger over the building of the new hut, or even standing up to Roger over beergate. We were not shown last night who it was that reassured Roger et. al. that the men were still together, but I bet you anything that Rob got Alex and Matt to do it, so that he would not be painted overtly with the traitor brush.

There is no reason for Rob to try to reallign the boys at this point. He has a final 3 commitment from Deena, and no reason to think that Dave/Butch/Alex/Matt would put him anywhere but the bottom 4th or 5th. I think he is going to stick with Deena as long as it serves his purposes, but will pair up with Jenna against Deena in the end game.

Spoilers aside that indicate they don't last, I agree with those who think the editing is foreshadowing that Deena and Rob are both going to tank soon.

We're getting way too much information about their strategies. And Deena is playing way too hard for her own good. She didn't need to win immunity last night (she even knew it: "I just needed to outlast Roger"). Now she's looking like an immunity threat. That wasn't lost on Rob, I'm sure.

Rob, however, thinks that no one in the game is as smart as he is. Maybe Deena isn't, but there are a few people we haven't been hearing anything from (like Butch). And of course Matt is the "dumbest" of all. We shall see.

Deena quoted Gloria Steinem "never underestimate the power of a woman" but wouldn't it be ironic if an underestimated male came from behind...say perhaps Butch or Matt?

Deena and Rob are doomed to fail. Rob is too immature and too dependent on little Rob to do his thinking, Jenna, Heidi and Deena are well aware of this and will turn on Rob and use his sex drive against him. Poor Rob won't even see it coming.

I'd love to see someone bust op the Silicone Sisterhood before they gain more control in the game.

Random thought...anyone else feel that Deena may be secretly aligned with Christy?????????

The Deena-Rob alliance reminds me of the Brian-Ted alliance last season. One of them might do well or even win, but this union won't last. Already we see Deena planning to ax Matthew to force Rob's loyalty. Meanwhile, Rob is getting paranoid about Heidi's closeness to Dave.

There are still a lot of holes to figure out--I don't think the core alliance has formed or been revealed yet. I think a lot of surprises are in store.

I think Christie is probably closer to Deena than anyone else at this time. They have shown a few moments of the two hugging and not really making any mention of it. But the friendship is there.

I saw it too Loree...last night. The way that Deena and Christie were communicating so easily leads me to believe that they may have been communicating this way for some time. Deena's not stupid, she knows that Christy is solid and loyal. And Christy knows that Deena is her best advocate among the females.

Random thought...anyone else feel that Deena may be secretly aligned with Christy?????????

That would be cool if she's fooling EVERYONE including the audience. Her and Christy were an original alliance against the cute girls.

And was Rob drunk when he said he'd like to have a final 3 of Jenna, Heidi, and himself for a little 3-some action? Do you think he means it? I wouldn't put it past him.

Aside from ending slavery, Nazism, and communism, War Has Never Solved Anything!

Elroy...that was "little Rob" you heard talking...

LOL! Little Rob is scary...

Methinks he might get Big Rob voted off.

Christy and Denna. I have been thinking this for a while. when the 3 girls were leavign it showed Deena making a face to someone ~ I figured Christy.

Also the first episode Deena's confessional she said "If christy gets voted off it will be because of her attitude" This lead me to believe Deena was not votign for her.

And when they were the last 2 on the poles christy turned so she could see Deena's lips. And if you noticed Deena only mouthed the words, we did not hear her speak. How many other times has Denna mouthed words to christy??

Unfortunatley I think it is foreshadowing that Deena will lose. I really like this woman. Yes she came off a little cocky but in my mind she is thinking the best out of the whole bunch. Next to Tina, Deena is the best female survivor that has played the game. It will be interesting to see how she falls.

LAST EDITED ON 03-27-03 AT 01:12 PM (EST)

It might not be foreshadowing - we have already seen Deena's fortunes going up and down from week to week (remember her comment that she had been at the top of the heap and was now at the bottom - right after the switch?) She seems to be a person that can adjust her balance depending on what happens. Maybe we will continue to see her go up and down over coming episodes.

Edited for spelling

LAST EDITED ON 03-27-03 AT 12:53 PM (EST)

I really like Deena too, but I said out loud last night "you just wrote your ticket home" with that outlasting Roger comment. How more obvious can you be!?!

It has been mentioned that if you have a definite leader with a lot of followers, then a follower will win. Well, Deena, sorry but you are a leader - and there are plenty of followers now. Better hope to win a LOT of immunity or you are gone. I think Jenna, Heidi, Christy, maybe Butch, and Alex are in a good position right now. Rob is ok for now, but his little strategy won't last for long. His jealousy will bite him in the butt. And Dave, he's a target of Deena's right now.

Interesting comment about Deena and Christie.. I saw their excellent communication last night too. Christy may just be the follower to win the whole game!

I think Butch got a wake up call at TC last night. Did you guys see his face when the votes were read? I think we will see him start to play the game a little more now. Dave also got a wake up call, but maybe too late.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. As someone else said, I think more surprises are waiting for us.

Edited to say I forgot Scary Matt! I think he may stick around as the best person to be in the final 2 with... WAY scary, boy.

The only thing I can figure about Butch is that Dave insisted on keeping the two "hotties" and so they voted for Christy. It's hard to see how Chill's info on Butch in 3rd place can possibly occur, but I guess we'll see. Looks like Dave is toast, though, unless Alex shows himself as too much of an immunity threat.

I would love to see Deena and Rob as the F2, they're both interesting and likeable. Unfortunately, I doubt it will happen. I have mixed feelings about the "alliances revealed" adage. The Tagi 4 were clear from the first episode I ever saw, and they won. The Chewy Gum wasn't exactly UTR, either. The only reason I think DeenaRob may fail is because there aren't enough of them, and the alliances are shifty. (Shifting alliances make better viewing, anyway)

Last season I didn't like anyone left at this point in the game. This season, everyone left is somewhat likeable, even Jenna. And they are all playing the game more than Brian's sheeplike followers did in the worst-ever Thailand season.

Did anyone else notice that at the end of tribal council, when Jeff said they would keep coming back until there was a final survivor, they showed Deena?

It may be wishful thinking on my part but after lurking on these boards for a while and reading about stars and spiders I though it might be significant.