The following sequence is kind of a summary of what I think we've concluded is the sequence of events for EP4. It focuses on Shawna as the common thread around which the events of EP4 are organized...

Day 10: Reward Challenge

Shawna is weak and not feeling well. She comments that she doesn’t think she’ll make it another 30 days. (suggesting it’s Day10) Shawna is resting under the shelter, wearing her flowered top and sunglasses and crying. Heidi (wearing her blue top) and Christy (wearing her hat) look on with concern. Jenna (wearing her pink top) also looks on…

Shawna saying she’s uncertain she can last another “30 days”. From Day 10/ RC day? Shawna wearing sunglasses and her flowered top.

Heidi wearing blue in Shawna crying sequence.

Christy wearing her hat and Heidi, wearing her blue shirt, looking on in the Shawna crying sequence.

After getting Treemail, the women get ready for the RC. Jenna and Shawna put on long pants and warmer tops. Jenna puts on a sweatshirt over her pink top and Shawna her purple shirt over her flowered top. Shawna puts on her sneakers in preparation but feels weak and faints…

Shawna fainting, wearing her purple top and long pants, wearing her sneakers like she’s getting ready to go to the challenge.

The women paddle to challenge beach for the Reward Challenge…

Shawna, with sunglasses, wearing her purple top, Jenna wearing sweatshirt and long pants, Heidi wearing blue top and shorts, and Christy probably wearing her hat hidden behind Joanna.

The tribes arrive at challenge beach and walk toward the Firebuilding area. They decide the firebuilding reward challenge is not as critical as Immunity and decide to have Shawna participate so that she can sit out the IC…


Heidi (blue top and shorts) and Christy (Wearing her hat) arriving at the Firebuilding Challenge.

Jeanne arriving for the Firebuilding Challenge, wearing a light tank top.

Christy wearing her hat at the Firebuilding Challenge.

The men go on to win the Fire Building Reward Challenge…

Men dressed in their fire building clothes, celebrate their victory.

Day 12: Immunity Challenge

The Piranha Challenge is for Immunity. The women decide to sit out Shawna who is feeling better but still weak. Shawna is wearing her green jacket and sandals, since she knows shes not going to compete (different than the purple worn to the RC with sneakers) Heidi is wearing her pink with long black pants. (different than the blue shirt and shorts Heidi was wearing in the boat and when Shawna was sick on Day 10)

Shawna sitting out Piranha Challenge, wearing green jacket.

Heidi wearing pink with long pants, Shawna sitting out wearing sandals.

Jeanne wearing black top.(different than the light colored top worn arriving at the Fire building Challenge.

While we don’t have any direct evidence that the men win the IC, we can conclude that they do because of the recycled vidcaps we see in the promos…

Recycled vidcap from the “dejected/determined” arrival at the EP2 IC.( misleading the viewing public to think the men might lose)

Recycled vidcap of the women winning, from EP1. (misleading the viewing public to think the women win again)

As I've mentioned elsewhere MB and CBS know that showing the women winning is good for ratings...but what do they do if the women happen to lose?... Show old footage of them winning to let the viewing public THINK they will win again…

Krautboy

• Looks good...,IceCat, 03:47 AM, 03-04-03
  • RE: Looks good...,Markopolo100, 03:54 AM, 03-04-03
  • RE: Looks good...,Krautboy, 04:08 AM, 03-04-03
• Fishing could still come first...,IceCat, 04:37 AM, 03-04-03
  • RE: Fire first,VolcanicGlass, 05:39 AM, 03-04-03
    • Seems logical but...,IceCat, 06:11 AM, 03-04-03
      • RE: Seems logical but...,PepeLePew13, 06:42 AM, 03-04-03
        • ... and Jenna is...,IceCat, 06:51 AM, 03-04-03
      • RE: Seems logical but...,VolcanicGlass, 06:46 AM, 03-04-03
        • RE: Seems logical but...,IceCat, 07:07 AM, 03-04-03
          • RE: Seems logical but...,VolcanicGlass, 12:01 PM, 03-04-03
• RE: Shawna Vidcap Chronology,SurvivinDawg, 06:12 AM, 03-04-03
  • RE: Shawna Vidcap Chronology,Krautboy, 10:37 AM, 03-04-03
• RE: Shawna Vidcap Chronology,stan1616, 06:47 AM, 03-04-03
  • RE: Shawna Vidcap Chronology,SurvivinDawg, 07:14 AM, 03-04-03
    • RE: Shawna Vidcap Chronology,Punkin, 10:49 AM, 03-04-03
      • RE: Shawna Vidcap Chronology,SurvivorBlows, 11:01 AM, 03-04-03
    • RE: Shawna Vidcap Chronology,stan1616, 07:08 AM, 03-05-03
      • RE: Shawna Vidcap Chronology,amylynne321, 12:30 PM, 03-05-03
• RE: Shawna Vidcap Chronology,dabo, 11:17 AM, 03-04-03
• IC before RC = "Trapped",Rain Crow, 04:25 PM, 03-04-03
  • RE: IC before RC = "Trapped",Brownroach, 04:53 PM, 03-04-03
    • RE: IC before RC = "Trapped",Krautboy, 05:31 PM, 03-04-03
      • The dive mask and fins reward...,IceCat, 05:53 PM, 03-04-03
        • RE: The dive mask and fins reward...,Brownroach, 06:12 PM, 03-04-03
  • RE: IC before RC = "Trapped",tribephyl, 06:43 PM, 03-04-03
    • RE: IC before RC = "Trapped",amylynne321, 12:49 PM, 03-05-03
• 30 days figuratively speaking,cowboyroo, 08:12 PM, 03-04-03
  • RE: 30 days figuratively speaking,Markopolo100, 05:45 AM, 03-05-03
    • RE: 30 days figuratively speaking,VerucaSalt, 07:19 AM, 03-05-03
    • RE: 30 days figuratively speaking,cowboyroo, 12:09 PM, 03-05-03

What do you think of the Shawna fainting episode occuring after the firebuilding RC? Too much hyperventilating blowing the fire and maybe a little smoke inhalation gets her all woozy. Not to mention the let down of losing the reward.

I agree. I don't understand why the rowing scene and the fire burning challenge can't be later in the episode.

Also, we got pics of the pirahna challenge first, which makes me think it's a reward.

Fire is life. When was the last time fire was involved and it WASN'T immunity????

IceCat: Sure, the fainting could just as easily happen after the challenge, and the physical exhertion. The main thing I was trying to establish was the timetable of the RC working with the Firebuilding.

Krautboy

LAST EDITED ON 03-04-03 AT 04:39 AM (EST)

Shawna is wearing the flowered top during the 'I can't last another 30 days...' sequence and during the fishing challenge:

I am not sure that the fainting spell and the 'I can't last another 30 days...' sequence occur very close to each other in the actual timeline.

The 'I can't last another 30 days...' sequence still occurs first which prompts the women to sit Shawna out of a Fishing RC (same flowered top for both sequences) which they lose and the men take home all of the fish that were caught.

Her condition worsens to the point that Shawna faints just prior to the Firebuilding IC. The tribe has thus TRAPPED themselves into having to use a weakened member for the immunity challenge. (purple top and sneakers for both)

I think that the clothing trail makes a more convincing case for fishing as the RC and Firebuilding as the IC. It goes along well with the fish that are caught during the challenge being the actual reward for the tribe members. Gives a little more time for Matthew to be able to use the fish in his 'strategy for survival'.

Krautboy's timeline looks good to me.

In the preview, we have Shawna in the camp scene saying she can't take 30 more days of this. That puts us at Day 1 of E4. Here are some of the clothing for that scene:

The following from the fire challenge location:

The following from the piranha challenge:

Heidi's buff, clothing and hairstyle at camp match the fire challenge sequence and do not match the piranha one. While we do see her blue, long-sleeved item on the ground in the piranha challenge, she is wearing her buff differently.

I believe the scene at camp takes place immediately following the fire challenge. While I am loathe to have fire not represent life, the logical conclusion is that the fire challenge is indeed the RC.

LAST EDITED ON 03-04-03 AT 06:35 AM (EST)

... I still think that we are missing something.

Shawna is in flowered top for crying sequence... others are in fire challenge clothing at same time ... then Shawna is in purple top green pants for fainting spell... then canoeing photo where all are in fire challenge photos... then fishing challenge where all are in different outfits except shawna is wearing flowered top again...

I suppose that a logical inference is that Shawna has some clothes that she uses for lounging around camp (flowered top, shorts, sandals) and she wore them to the Fishing IC because she and her tribe had already agreed that she was going to sit out.

The reason she is shown wearing the flowered top first could be that she is sick in bed and the tribe are already dressed and ready to go to RC and have to force Shawna to get up and change into her purple top, green pants and sneakers... then she faints.

Too many costume changes in the first act!

Edited to add something else to mull over:

Isn't this Shawna on the extreme right wearing her flowered top after the fire challenge?

What does this mean if Shawna is wearing the flowered top at both challenges?

and... who is sitting out at the Fire challenge:

... and don't tell me that Heidi sits out at the fire challenge because you can see her blue shirt and black shorts running here:

Maybe Jenna (in her pink top) sits out the fire challenge...

LAST EDITED ON 03-04-03 AT 06:44 AM (EST)

>and... who is sitting out at
>the Fire challenge:
>
>
>
>Maybe Jenna (in her pink top)
>sits out the fire challenge...

Yep, looks like Jenna to me.

Also, if you look in Krautboy's sequence at the top... see the group paddling to challenge site (Bungler's #35) and then two pictures down, you see the group walking -- there's Jeanne in her blue top in the canoe pic and Jeanne in her light-colored top in the walking pic. Are we sure these pics are from the same trip to the challenge or could these be from different challenges? I know it's just as easy for Jeanne to simply take her blue sweatshirt off somewhere on the way...

FWIW, it's hard for me to see a fire-building challenge as a RC instead of IC because fire is so important in the whole concept of "Survivor" as in fire=life so I'd think that anything to do with fire would always be an IC without question. But that's just me.

"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."

... wearing her pink top in the Shawna crying sequence:

If Janet is to be believed, the players were only allowed to bring "one pair of underwear, one pair of shorts, one sleeveless top, one long sleeve top, one pair of pants, one pair of socks and a coat." Of course, she is missing the swimsuit and shoes in that list so that may mean nothing.

In these additional caps from the camp scene, we can see that Shawna is indeed wearing the flower print shirt. Jenna is wearing pink.

What I believe happens is that we have the Fire Challenge, after which the women have that scene at the camp, in which Shawna breaks down.

'... What I believe happens is that we have the Fire Challenge, after which the women have that scene at the camp, in which Shawna breaks down....'

Which goes along with what I was saying before about hyperventilation and smoke inhalation.

This would also mean that sitting Jenna out for the RC was not a response to Shawna's illness. Rather it was merely lucky that the women chose Jenna to sit out RC instead of Shawna.

Right. Though, probably more unlucky than lucky.

As I've mentioned elsewhere MB and CBS know that showing the women winning is good for ratings...but what do they do if the women happen to lose?... Show old footage of them winning to let the viewing public THINK they will win again…

Why, Krautboy, it would appear that you're treating CBS exactly as they should be treated!

As Grover on Sesame Street would say, "I am so PROUD of you!"

Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

Dawg: Looks like I might be trainable after all...

I may not always want to admit it, but I do listen...

Krautboy

I personally think that Joanna will be voted out before Shawna for some reasons...

1. Christy will vote for Joanna. That's a fact. The booby alliance won't vote for Shawna since she's part of the alliance. Unless Shawna says that she wants to leave, I don't think that Heidi nor Jenna will vote for her.

2. 3 days after Dan was voted off and a lot more days in the Amazon, it is impossible that Dan would not hook up with Shawna there in Loser's Lodge and according to Dan's chat...

http://www.survivorfever.net/chat-daniel.html

There are a lot more cuter girls in Texas. Then, what about Flo and Drew? They've been together also for a long time but if Daniel and Shawna can see each other 24/7 then I have no doubt that they're gonna hook up. Unless Shawna is transported to the hospital...

____________________________

Stan1616

Word: Shawna was supposedly dating ALEX, not Daniel.

More Word: Alex and Shawna say they're "just friends." I don't know the rules of people not seeing each other between filming and airing of the show, but when I hear "just friends", I think "just lovers".

But I do agree with you that Shawna does not go this episode. I think maybe she'll start to feel better and gut it out a few more days. I'm sure her "cute girls" alliance partners will try to keep her around, and I imagine Joanna is getting more and more annoying by the minute.

Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

Shawna moved from her home in the SF Bay Area to LA following E1. Alex lives in LA. The rumors may be true.

Or Shawna might just be the latest media whore to move to LA once her show started airing, joining an near-endless list of young, single, 20 and 30-something former reality folks at the Belly Bar.

Colby moved to LA... Brandon moved... Jeff Varner moved... all types of Big Brother people moved... they all think they are going to have all kinds of opportunities fall into their laps as soon as they hit the city limits... I wouldn't read anything into it. Shawna's young, she was working a easily replacable retail job at a clothing store, it's not like she's sacrificing a life and career that she's built up decades, I say it's more likely she's simply young and having an adverture.

Well then, that gives more evidence that Shawna won't be voted off. If she was voted off now, she'd be closer to Dan than Alex. I think that she will make it farther to be close friends with Alex then the real fun begins. I've read Ryan's chat and he said something about Rob's two-sided strategy which will bite him in the end. I think that come the merger, there will be no more tribal lines and this will shape up to end just like Marquesas in which both tribes were divided forming new alliances.

____________________________

Stan1616

Or- more likely:

Shawna doesn't like Daniel more because Daniel is an idiot. It doesn't matter if she was at LL with Daniel longer because he's a big dufus.

Out of the two, a girl with any kind of intelligence looking for more then just brawn is gonna choose Alex.

Great thread, and it seems evident that the men win both challenges this time regardless of which is which. I'm going to hang onto "30 days" indicating that Shawna's collapse is day 10, giving her time to bounce back, and giving JoAnna time to mess up. Granted, they may not always be that exact in what they say, but it seems a strong indicator to me. If Shawna sits out the IC then the others may think it unfair to oust her, but if she loses it because she is weak then only her alliance can keep her in the game. Since Jeanne and JoAnna conspired to put Deena in the targeted leader spot, Deena may be looking to deliver some payback for the favor.

ARRRRRRR!!!!

Just to stir up more confusion, I feel I must offer the following:

What if Jiffy has them do the IC before the RC? I have been waiting for this twist for several seasons, but it hasn't happend yet.

This concept would seem to apply to almost every scenario mentioned by various posters and make quite a few things fall into place. At the first challenge of the episode, Jiffy could just describe the challenge, ask who will sit out, and then, oh, by the way, do you want to know what you are playing for??? Immunity!!! Can you say "Episode 4...TRAPPED"???

It would also really stir things up in camp if they have two days or longer to consider who needs to go! Likewise, it would make the RC VERY interesting...would the expected bootee throw the challenge just to punish the rest of the tribe? or would the expected bootee redeem themselves and someone else take the WOS? Lots of potential drama here...probably in ways we can't even imagine!

I would love for this to happen, but does anyone see any evidence that would effectively "kill" this twist? I am currently unaware of any, but am probably blind to my own wild imagination!!!

"Onward Thru the Fog"