its all just one big clusterfvck, and that just covers the editing. Trying to keep track of how the teams are doing in the race is impossible....you never know how far apart the teams are, teams make huge unexplained (or shown) jumps or falls in the standings and you never know how or why, and when its all said and done, the race is basically decided by who gets the better cab driver. In other words, its all a friggen lottery. Plus, the teams are all carboon copies of the first season.

I've seen Eco-Challenge, and Amazing Race, you sir are NO Eco-Challenge!

• RE: This show sucks,sjunkim, 01:26 AM, 03-14-02
• RE: This show sucks,SherpaDave, 02:26 AM, 03-14-02
• "TAR is the worst reality show...,realitybites, 06:34 AM, 03-14-02
  • Give it time... it'll get better,Canadian_eh, 09:58 AM, 03-14-02
    • RE: Give it time... it'll get better,L82LIFE, 12:08 PM, 03-14-02
      • RE: Give it time... it'll get better,Cole, 12:21 PM, 03-14-02
        • hey cole,shakes the clown, 02:58 PM, 03-14-02
          • RE: hey cole,SurvivinDawg, 03:15 PM, 03-18-02
• RE: This show sucks,plimtuna, 02:02 PM, 03-14-02
• RE: This show sucks,T_Irvins, 04:39 PM, 03-18-02
  • RE: This show sucks,Loree, 12:44 PM, 03-19-02
    • RE: This show sucks,T_Irvins, 01:25 PM, 03-19-02
      • RE: This show sucks,Ruthless, 05:07 PM, 03-19-02
        • RE: This show sucks,T_Irvins, 05:27 PM, 03-19-02
          • RE: This show sucks,smiles, 06:50 PM, 03-19-02
            • Money and travel,realitybites, 07:35 PM, 03-19-02
              • RE: Money and travel,T_Irvins, 07:50 PM, 03-19-02
          • Domestic Flights,ursusminor, 08:00 PM, 03-19-02
            • RE: Domestic Flights,T_Irvins, 08:15 PM, 03-19-02
• RE: This show sucks...NOT,PagongRatEater, 03:45 PM, 03-19-02
  • RE: This show sucks...NOT,T_Irvins, 05:45 PM, 03-19-02
• RE: This show sucks,JeffGator, 05:40 PM, 03-19-02
  • RE: This show sucks,Loree, 05:53 PM, 03-19-02
    • RE: This show sucks,JeffGator, 05:59 PM, 03-19-02
      • RE: This show sucks,Loree, 11:17 AM, 03-20-02
    • RE: This show sucks,T_Irvins, 06:03 PM, 03-19-02
      • RE: This show sucks,managerr, 06:32 PM, 03-19-02
• RE: This show sucks,qwertypie, 06:43 PM, 03-19-02
  • RE: This show sucks,Cole, 06:50 PM, 03-19-02
    • Non-elimination episodes,realitybites, 07:13 PM, 03-19-02
      • RE: Non-elimination episodes,T_Irvins, 07:29 PM, 03-19-02
      • RE: Non-elimination episodes,ursusminor, 07:46 PM, 03-19-02
        • RE: Non-elimination episodes,T_Irvins, 07:56 PM, 03-19-02
          • RE: What was this Thread about?,trigirl, 10:00 AM, 03-20-02
            • What this Thread is about,realitybites, 10:24 AM, 03-20-02
              • Who is Shakes the Clown?,JeffGator, 12:08 PM, 03-20-02
                • RE: Who is Shakes the Clown?,PagongRatEater, 12:44 PM, 03-20-02
                  • RE: Who is Shakes the Clown?,JeffGator, 05:35 PM, 03-20-02
                • RE: Who is Shakes the Clown?,landruajm, 05:23 PM, 03-20-02
• RE: This show sucks,anotherkim, 02:58 PM, 03-20-02
• RE: This show sucks,zahadumguy, 03:02 PM, 03-20-02
  • Time and Money,ursusminor, 07:45 PM, 03-20-02

The time/placement is probably kept track by a clock and notes made by the camera men...

You're absolutely right, shakes. Trying to write the summary for episode one is like trying to summarize the latest video on MTV. Jumpcut, jumpcut, jumpcut. This show's a pain in my ass.

Song: Rob the Builder!
Rob: Can I touch them?
Song: Rob the Builder!
Sarah: Yes, you can!
Criminals From the Neck Up

...except for all the others" - Winston Churchill (paraphrased)

As a sporting event, TAR's coverage is pretty shaky. Too many competitors (usually), too much focus on the non-contenders, too many factors outside the competition, and too little focus on the winner(s).

But here, the sporting event is peripheral to the TV show. The TV show has a lot - thrills, head rushes, flying feet, the agony of defeat, overcoming one's fears, and yes, even crazy taxi drivers.

It's not for all tastes. But I like it and feel it's worth my time to watch.

The first TAR got better as time went on. I think there were a few reasons...

1- There are too many teams now to spend any time on any one team

2- The weaker teams are gone (well at least in theory... but the Gramma's are still here)

3- They're trying to capture an audience with the excitement (bad editing). Once the audience base is set, they can tone down the music video editing and actually show us what's going on.

Right now, it is a little hard to keep up, but that's what makes TAR so fun-the fast pace. As more teams get the boot, they will slow the editing down some and it will become more interesting. Give it a chance, Shakes. I know it's no Love Cruise-they can't all be that riveting! HeeHee.

**running from the clowns flames**

Shakes: Amazing Race is to Love Cruise what the Venetian is to a rent-by-the-hour cheap motel.

BTW, I saw you on an El platform the other day (Clark and Lake), and was going to talk to you about things, but decided you probably get this sort of stuff all the time. Friend of mine sat next to Toni on the bus one day. How are all of you guys?

>BTW, I saw you on an
>El platform the other day
>(Clark and Lake), and was
>going to talk to you
>about things, but decided you
>probably get this sort of
>stuff all the time.
>Friend of mine sat next
>to Toni on the bus
>one day. How are
>all of you guys?

....hey, you should've come up and said hi...I'm always happy to meet fellow SB.com members and reality tv fans. I feel sorry for your friend, did she/he go to the clinic after that bus ride cause you know, some diseases are airborne communicable.

Damn, now I'm all nervous about how I act in public...I guess picking my nose on the El train is no longer an option for me. Oh well, that's the price of pseudo fame.

Everyone is doing well, as far as I know....I don't talk to as many people as I did when the show was still fresh....I really only stay in touch with Jeanette, Melissa, Lisa, Bob, and to a much lesser extent Tomiko, Greg, Ralph and Crazy Tony.

I feel sorry for your friend, did she/he go to the clinic after that bus ride cause you know, some diseases are airborne communicable.

Please do not use the word "airborne" in any reference to bug-eyed Toni... Paratrooper has feelings, y'know!

*** Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

Eco challenge it is not.

Well that is fairly obvious.

TAR is not on a minor cable channel, it is on prime time on CBS.

TAR does not happen in one locale, it is globe trotting, exposing its viewers to everything from Paris to India to Alaska.

TAR shows more interest in its contestants, the show is about people on a race, it is not about a race with people. A subtle difference.

TAR generates substantial revenue for CBS, I am not so sure on Eco Challenge's revenue producing potential.

To sum up - they are different, they are both interesting for different reasons, they both target somewhat different audiences.

I like TAR - it is Travel Channel and Big Brother and Survivor all in one. I like all three of those shows.

I would love to be on it, just can't figure out how to get two months off work. Any ideas?

PlimTuna
"Now that reality has been redefined, can I start living my dreams?"

I agree about the time issue. When I re-watched the 1st season episodes before the new airings I thought about the same thing: They need to show the split times.

I love this show to death but if they're going to act like Nascar with the pit-stop times they can at least let us all know who's doing what with some sense of real time. I know, of course, with the later ep.'s it will be less of a problem, maybe, but think of how more nail-biting for the viewer it would be to see whom you're rooting for not doing too well compared to someone you despise doing better when the time is known throughout the race while it's being played? We should know when something's going on other than when someone's leaving the pit-stop.

t.

They are so worried about hiding their surprise ending and who is first and who is last each week. That they don't show us the times on purpose. We would figure out who is going to be safe and who is going to be eliminated each week. That takes away the dramatic moments at the end. I do wish they would show us the times too. But maybe we would be bored then. They could show us a money count though. I always want to know who is wasting their money and who is saving it. I think our problem is we feel cheated at times. It looks like some teams are battling neck and neck when really one of the teams could be 2 hours behind everyone else.

This is scary, Loree, as we're beginning to think alike^_^. I like your views a lot on the time issue but somehow I don't think, speaking for myself, I might be bored given that Phil manages to narrate who's leading, who's trailing right behind and who's lagging every episode at the right time. But I do hear ya because I like the sense of surprise, i.e., the Grannies. Scratch that: We always knew they were doing all right when Phil stated that Page & Blake and Hope & Norm were vying for last place. Hmmh, it's a toss up, I guess. If they found a way to balance it out with the suspense of the show I'd definitely welcome it like the 2nd coming of the Mole again (TELL YOUR FRIENDS TO WATCH IT THIS SUMMER!!!)

Sorry, I'm a fanatic... And I'm squarely with you about the money. Especially considering that they're given more money per leg than the 1st TAR contestants. $200 well managed each leg will go a long way this time a round...

t.

If they get US$200 each leg, then that will be worth $400 in Australia. Depending on where they had to go in Australia, $400 will get you a fair way by bus. As this was filmed at least a month ago, airfares were still pretty cheap in Australia then as well, but I'm not sure if the cheap fares applied if you fronted up at an airport and asked to get on the next flight.

I wish they did give more information about the money they were given, what it was worth in the local currency, what it was costing them in bus or taxi fares, how much accommodation costs, that sort of thing. It would certainly make it more interesting.

You know, come to think of it, I don't think they would have to pay for any domestic flights, either. I'm not sure, though. I'll have to go to the site and check out their rules page. Not having to spend any money on intercontinental flights definitely helps but I'd like to know if they'd have to spend money or not on any domestic flights if the route marker didn't call for it, i.e., "You must take a taxi, etc., etc.," which usually meant that domestic travel by rail, bus or taxi would have to come out of the contestants stipends. It's seems likely they would for domestic flights, I suppose if they were allowed to.

t.

They definitely don't have to pay for flights. Just for all of the other transportation. $200 is a lot of money to give these teams! They should give them $200 at the beginning and at the final leg only give $25. I think that would force the to be a bit less frivolous! And it would make for good TV!

Now that I think about it, do other countries have an extensive domestic traveling system like the US? I know the major countries probably will, but for the most part the contestants travel to the remote areas of a country where they have to travel by train, bus, rail, etc.

>$200 is a lot of money
>to give these teams!
>They should give them $200
>at the beginning and at
>the final leg only give
>$25. I think that
>would force the to be
>a bit less frivolous!
>And it would make for
>good TV!

I agree with you on all counts, but just want to make a couple of points:

1) When you consider that most of the teams had to pay $50-$100 to charter a boat in the first leg, $200 doesn't look like such a huge amount.

2) I think they'll give each team less from here on out. In fact, one way to screw Blake & Paige to the wall would be to give them NO money for the next leg. Not that they would do something like that this early, but still, keep it in mind.

You're definitely right about the part with the boats but was it in Brazilian money they had paid or is that the actual relative conversion you're stating.

For the stipends, however, I do believe that it is each leg that $200 is given to to the teams. I saw the first episode a few times and I remember hearing the Pastor read the contents of the envelope stating that at each leg $200 will be given to them. I like the idea about them getting less at each leg but I'll check again to be sure.

t.

The rules they've shown us aren't very clear on this, but I suspect that paid-for domestic flights are generally not available to the teams even when the clues don't specify how to travel to the next route marker. Why else then would Joe/Bill last race or (maybe) Shola/Doyin this race not take a plane for the hundreds of miles from the Fast Forward win to the pitstop?

That's definitely what I thought. You hit it right on the head, ursusminor.

t.

This is a great show with a compelling story line that is EXTREMELY poorly edited. I think that it is very difficult to follow who is in what place and where the teams are in relation to each other. I started a thresd last season on what is wrong with this show and that was item number one on the list.

They need to give arrival times at the camp, they need to show how much distance is between the teams (preferrably graphically), they need to sto bunching all of the teams together all the time and they need to make money an issue. I have no idea why they stress the money if it is never a problem...that is unless you lose it.

It will definitely get a little easier once there are fewer teams and we can get more into character development. I still enjoy the show even though it is not perfect. Hopefully, there will be improvements in the meantime.

Ugh, that's what I was trying to say... just couldn't find... the... words... in... my... memory... file...

Last season, though, I think it was a problem somewhat because they were only given $50-american each leg. Guido f-ed around with theirs so much with the hotels and stuff at each leg that when they got to Thailand, well, you know... Rob and Brennan states also on their site how much of an effort they made saving up cash that they were able to bribe, oops, I mean bought off, oops, again, I meant buy the telephone off of the woman in Alaska to coordinate flight reservations. This time they have it pretty easy.

And the editing this go around is poor, indeed. I guess they didn't have the luxury of time as they did with TAR-1 in making it just as good even though the last one left a lot to be desired. But it's still such a beautiful show (sigh.) I'm hoping they would make a DVD set of each run with lots of cool scenes that didn't make the cut. Still, that's the fanatic in me hoping for what's not likely to happen.

t.

I agree with most of things people said on this post. But I disagree with the poster who said that the show got better as time went on last season. I found the non-elimination episodes that were later in the season on TAR 1 very boring. I did not have much interest watching a show where no one was eliminated. How would you like an episode of survivor where no one is kicked off? Why the hell would you want to see the show? I think THAT is the major problem with the show. I enjoyed all the other episodes though but when i knew that a non-elimination round was going on I forced myself to watch it. Anyone else agree with me?
______________________________________________________________
19 year old Student at the University of Florida--Go Gators!
______________________________________________________________
"I may be alot of things, but I ain't no Hershey Bar."

I think CBS realized this was a problem. This season there will never be a Wednesday night where there isn't an elimination. On the episodes where they are not eliminating a couple they are showing double episodes that night. The non-elimination episode will be in the first hour. But someone will be booted in the next hour. So we will never have to wait a week to see anyone booted.

really? I didn't know that. that's really awesome. Do you know if the show will run from 8-10pm or 9-11pm? thanks for the info Loree, by the way do you know when survivor will be back on thursday nights?______________________________________________________________
19 year old Student at the University of Florida--Go Gators, Go Gina, and Go Gary and Dave!
______________________________________________________________
"I may be alot of things, but I ain't no Hershey Bar."

Survivor will be back on Thursdays next week I believe. I don't know whether the double episodes of TAR2 will start an hour earlier or go an hour later. Depends on the CBS schedule I guess.

Geddouttahere, are you serious?! That's interesting and although it's not only off-topc but still relative to another, I guess it helps out there ratings issue, somewhat. However, it means this season will be done sooner than later. Get in, get out, I guess. Cool, nonetheless. Makes taping the ep.'s quicker and easier and I get my jones for 2 hrs.

t.

If you noticed, they also added one new team, so the show will only run 2 weeks shorter than normal. (Although now that I think about it, if they expanded it out two omre weeks, they could have ended it the same week as Survivor)

Excellent suggestions. Here's a thought, they could show split screens like they do in "24". This way we could see what all the teams are doing at the same time. Of course it is alittle unwieldy at the beginning (especially for those of us with a 13 inch screen) when you have 11 teams competing but I can't imagine it being much more confusing than what we have now. They could also add in the groovy "24" music as well. Think of the suspense it would add. Ok, maybe not. It is amazing the stuff a Nyquil-soaked brain can come up with.

BTW Any chance that the Lost Love Cruise Episode Summaries will surface? I really enjoyed the first ones and check back every so often hoping, hoping, hoping,

qwertypie

No, there were 11 teams last year as well. When there was talk of TAR2 it was posted that there would be 12 teams this time, but we still only have 11.

I'm not sure where the information about these back to back episodes is coming from... I'd love to see some sources confirming this as this is the first I have heard of this. It just doesn't make sense to me ratings wise. If you go with one episode a week which makes more sense to me, the 13th and final episode airs on May 29, right at the end of May sweeps. I also disagree about the fact that non-elimination episodes are boring... I admit it's a bit of a letdown but it makes you all the more itchy to watch the next week.

>I'm not sure where the information
>about these back to back
>episodes is coming from... I'd
>love to see some sources
>confirming this as this is
>the first I have heard
>of this.

One or two of the interviews with Phil mentioned this. I don't have the direct links, but you should be able to find them on Sir Linksalot if you're interested.

But Phil is just an employee of CBS; he is not the network programmer. I can tell you right now that next week's episode shows every sign of being a non-elimination, and there's no sign of a second episode.

>I also disagree about the fact
>that non-elimination episodes are boring...
>I admit it's a bit
>of a letdown but it
>makes you all the more
>itchy to watch the next
>week.

I agree with this. There are several reasons I watch the show - the different (and sometimes quite pretty) scenery, the intra- and inter-team interaction, the tasks they're asked to do, the fears they're asked to face, who does what, and who finishes where. The eliminations are only a part of that. The most interesting thing about them, I think, is the reaction of the teams who are on the losing end. Some are stoic, and some break down to a greater or lesser degree. But I think the show would work quite well with fewer eliminations or even none.

I found the non-elimination rounds only frustrating becuase teams that I knew were going to be eliminated had to be held off to another week to see it happened. Still, I didn't mind so much. I'm definitely in the minority that feels that the show could still work without the eliminations done at all.

t.

Let me add my 1/50th dollar in...

It may well be something of a letdown to watch an hour-long episode without a "payoff" at the end. But let's consider the alternatives:

1) More contestants - 15 teams would be needed to eliminate one on each episode, and have 3 left to finish the race in the last episode, over a 13-episode race. This is an imperfect solution, as there already a number of complaints about too many teams to keep track of and to allow a proper amount of time to focus on them.

2) Fewer episodes - like, say, 9. Are there any TARfans out there who really would rather see less TAR?

So I'd say I like things the way they are. If it still bothers you, try thinking about the non-elimination episodes as being the first half of a double-length leg.

I've always looked at it in those regards, really. Just better editing and the other great suggestions are needed.

t.

Whew...lots going on in this thread.

Domestic Flights - I don't think those would be paid for unless in is stipulated in the clue. Also, domestic flights are not proportionally cheaper than international ones...so contestants will have to really think about that.

Twins FF - I am pretty sure that the FF read "...take a bus..."

Editing - You are right...it sucks. Great suggestion from someone ? (sorry) about the 24-style real-time frames.

Timing - Maybe it is a production constraint rather than a gimmick for suspense.

Money - Why isn't CBS or Bruckheimer listening to us about this?

Non-Elimination - It is still suspensefull because I didn't know which rounds they were going to be...did all you guys?

The thread started when one of our esteemed members (and former contestant on another, inferior reality show) criticized TAR. Some agreed, some came to the show's defense, and many people commented within the thread on subjects of interest to them. Like this one:

>Non-Elimination - It is still suspensefull because I didn't
>know which rounds they were going to be...did all you guys?

The first one took most of us by surprise, but the next two we kind of figured out. There are several things to look for with a non-elimination episode:

1) The descriptions from TV Guide won't mention a team being eliminated. If there is one being eliminated that week, they will usually mention it.

2) In the description, the number of teams doesn't change from week to week. If two descriptions from different weeks say, for example, "The six teams...", then you know that the first one is not an elimination round.

3) In the description for The Early Show on the Thursday after an episode, they will usually mention "latest eliminated contestant from TAR" if they have one. If the description doesn't mention it, then they probably don't have an elimation on that episode.

4) And finally, during the introduction to the show, Phil will say "Who will be last?" instead of his standard "Who will be eliminated?"

Who is Shakes the Clown and what reality show was he on? From his posts I would have to guess he is Jeff Varner.

______________________________________________________________
19 year old Student at the University of Florida--Go Gators, Go Gina, and Go Gary and Dave!
______________________________________________________________
"I may be alot of things, but I ain't no Hershey Bar."

If you missed him, you are not alone. He was (is) Mike from Love Cruise - the self-proclaimed Chessmaster of that Chutes and Ladders show.

He's Mike from Love Cruise? Wasn't that the jewish guy on the show? Wow, I didn't get a chance to watch the show that much but I was totally rooting for him because he reminded me of myself. Hey I gotta root for my jewish brothers. hehe Are you sure he's Shakes the Clown, because that guy posts some really mean things.

______________________________________________________________
19 year old Student at the University of Florida--Go Gators, Go Gina, and Go Gary and Dave!
______________________________________________________________
"I may be alot of things, but I ain't no Hershey Bar."

He's the clown on The Simpsons. He goes by "Shakes" here instead of "Krusty" to protect his privacy.

Send in the clones.

I agree with you to an extent, oh Clownish one. There are too many damn teams to keep up with.

I'd rather see 8 teams take two weeks to be eliminated, at least that way I'd know who was who. That would also allow them a great deal more time to show me the interactions and the obstacles. As it is, I feel like I am on speed watching it until it gets down to 5 or 6 groups--then it DOES get better.

Okay, here some random thoughts:

Domestic Airfare. My understanding was any "arranged" airfare would by covered by TAR and you could not purchase tickets yourselves for any other flights. So flying on your own Ist Verboten!

Re Editing - yes it's hectic but when you're trying to keep track of 11 teams it's bound to be true. If you don't cover all the teams then you get people complaining "what happened with the Gay Duo?" they just showed up at the finish line! As for split screens, yes they work for 24 but they really only use split screens a few times through out the show and then usually less than a minute. If you're proposing using split screen through the entire show, it simple won't work. John Q. Public would never sit through that.

Let's keep track of everybody's money. Yeah, I can see that but it's not that important. I don't want to know Peach spent 50 cents on a candy bar during the pitstop. If they just gave remaining $ that would be cool . . . although people would start bitchin' why did Peach 'n Scream have $180 yesterday and now only have $175 today?

Keep track of time. Ennhh, I want to be surprised who comes in last. Real time editing wouldn't be nearly exciting. Of course, that's just my opinion.

There are too many teams to keep track of, I hate non-elimination episodes, don't film fewer episodes. What, you want your cake and eat it too? Showing only 9 episodes isn't really an option. CBS wouldn't buy so few shows. If you don't want non-elimination shows you'd have to increase the field which goes against too many teams.

So I guess I'm saying, even if you tinker with the format you not going to please everybody (obviously). I this this is the less suckiest way to present the show.

I tend to agree with your thoughts on both of those. With money, I get the feeling that the producers want money to be an issue, but not necessarily an overriding one. With the timings, I do occasionally find myself trying to fit the action into a timeframe. But I think to give us a running tally/clock would add clutter and distraction to the program for many, particular the more casual viewers.

Maybe one solution would be to enhance the website information with some of these things, even if a week after the show.