Well, there is no spec board.

"This, unfortunately, is the high point of my day" - Lester Burnham

I thought rich was brillant, Tina was too

I thought Vee was a great gameplayer also..not so much Ethan..but

When I look at this cast..I see the major players as Brian,Helen,and Jake that is just my opinion

Rudy didn't do anything except be Rudy. And he got lucky also.

LAST EDITED ON 12-03-02 AT 02:11 AM (EST)

Funny, I don't really see Jake as a major player in this game. It seems to me Jake thought he was playing when he first picked his tribe, but look where it got him! And yes, maybe he did make some attempt to infiltrate the Chay Gahn tribe late in the game, but it was only in a last ditch attempt to save what Sook Jais were left after the merge, not a well-planned move by a Survivor "player". I think what has gotten him this far in the game, as we have seen, was his paternal position in his former tribe, and the fact that he seemed to be the least threatening to the Chuays up to this point.

I think that Brian, on the other hand, has been playing this game like a pro (if I can call him that), making strategic moves and calculated decisions since day one. Minus his little fumble with the video from home, I think Brian has been playing the game the minute he boarded the plane. And unless the others don't clue into what his plans (they don't seem to have...yet), I think Brian will go very far. I saw him doing this from episode two, what with all his confident confessions to a lone cameraman in the woods somewhere.

Jan seems clueless, as usual (although she may surprise me one of these days), Ted and Clay are merely sheep, each one separately following their king, though doing it together and without knoowledge of the other's similar actions. The only one who seems to REALLY know what is going on here in Helen, and she may even be the REAL #2 to Brian. After her vote for Ghandia, following the boys, she may have had some secret conversations with Brian, hidden even from the TV viewers, where she developed the only true bond Brian has been keeping all this time. I believe that this bond will begin to manifest itself in the next episode, when Jake wins immunity, and the former Chuays will be forced to turn on each other for the vote. Brian and Helen, followed by Jan and maybe Ted, will vote out Clay, who proved his unreliability with his vote for Jake last week.

Is that picture from Confederation Park in Kingston, Ontario?

yes it sure is! It's a picture I took a few years ago on a visit to Kingston. It's titled "old man on a bench". It had a certain irony to it, as the man looks so traquil and serene, yet if you look closely(better in the original), you notice that his has the "plumber pants" thing going.

>>Hs anyone played harder than Brian since Richard? He is calm, cool, collected and coniving! <<

Hmm -- I'd have to say Zoe. Remember when she referred to herself as a "work-hard, play-hard kind of gal?"

I don't know if I'd describe Brian as playing "hard" up to this point. I think he correctly assessed early on, from observing his other tribemembers, that he didn't need to play really hard or connive too much in order to control things -- whereas Richard Hatch said he constantly felt the need to test his alliance of four. Ted and Clay each approached Brian about alliances; he did not initiate any himself.

But Ted, Clay, Helen and Jan have at various times irked other tribemembers, while Brian has remained purposely neutral and friendly with everyone. I do think, as you say, that this is essentially what will carry him to the Final 2 (and probably Sole Survivor), but over the next couple of episodes he will need to connive a bit more to cement his position.

Brian is playing well, but until the final episode is over we won't know the full picture. Also, it is what he does from here on until the end that he earns the kind of kudos you want to throw towards him.

I think a lot of players have been on the wrong side of alliances that don't get their due. Jeff & Michael in S2. T-Bird & Lex in S3. Kathy in S4 played as hard as anyone and saw the reality of alliance structures- even when V choose going after Pascal instead of Neleh, which was stupid. The best "player" does not always win.

Peanut Butter Jeff
"If you thought S3 was bad just wait until S5."

Who write this??? Brian? Me thinks that the finale will play out much like the Big Brother 3 finale played out and Brian will have to be happy with second place. Brian is just like Danielle was and he'll end up just like her too.

Well this isn't spoilery, but neither is this thread, really.

I really wish Danielle had been placed on Survivor (she could've replaced Vecepia and still won!). She was one of my favourite people in the house and she deserved to win about a thousand times more than Lisa. But I guess no BB players will never be able to make a mature, rational, non-selfish decision (which is probably part of why they choose that type in the first place - hrm. Not that Amy isn't still one of my favourite R-TV people ever ;)

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Now let us never speak of S3 again.

Whoa- whoa- whoa.

First, in BB2 Will won, so yes BB contestants can and will make the correct "game" decision. BUT, Will played the game in front of the camaras 24/7.

Danielle played only half a great game. When playing BB or any reality tv game, one needs to coddle the voters, and Danielle played for a second place finish.

How does this relate to S5? Brian's comments are not being heard by the voters until AFTER they have voted. He was smart enough to see that his ass wagging wife may have hurt his chances in the game, and was it a coincidence that he missed ALL the questions in the next IC? I think not.

Now, it's not hard for me to agree that Vecepia was not a great player, but she was smart enough to know when it was time to vote off Hunter when most game strategists screamed and yelled that she was stupid. She was smart enough to vote off Sean when it was time. That said her end game sucked and she won because of a purple rock.

Spoiler? Not sure, but I think Jason is still a virgin;)

Peanut Butter Jeff
"If you thought S3 was bad just wait until S5."

Being an innately nice person does not put someone over another who has actually played the game. The only reason Will won was because he was slightly more appealing than that horrible beast woman Nicole. And for that reason the final vote was just as much an emotional decision as it was in BB3, although the seasons aren't really all that comparable.

You ~could~, however, say that Danielle's REAL mistake was not stringing Amy along to the end (and not even making the effort to do so). Going against two sweethearts is not the way to win any reality gameshow.

Vecepia, on the other hand was very dumb to take credit for getting Hunter booted. Of course we can say in hindsight it was a brilliant move, but did it look to you like they were fully expecting a switch? Hunter, as oblivious as he was, was the only one holding that tribe together. I would've actually preferred to see them wallow in the own loss that they themselves created.

And Vecepia didn't really organize the secondary alliance as I saw it - she rode Sean far more than Pappy rode Neleh or Elisabeth rode Rodger. If he had been clearer in his plea to Kathy and directly said "let's vote out Vee", the game would've been very different (But though we now know otherwise, at the time, Sean ~was~ the better boot if Kathy was going to stick with P/N). If only Neleh had gotten that stupid rock....

And I've just noticed that you said "it's not hard for me to agree that Vecepia was not a great player" instead of "it's hard for me to agree that Vecepia was not a great player". But I did write all that so I might as well post it. We'll just call it an agreeance message ;)

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Now let us never speak of S3 again.

I meant to say that V was a good player, not a great player, and the weakest winner by far. That said, I wanted to point out some smart move on her part. She was totally playing for the switch, and knew that her core group could not afford Hunter being around any longer especially with a switch looming. Which is too bad. If Kathy had won S4, it would have arguably been the best Survivor. The purple rock and the whole endgame really deflated a game that had the best midgame to date.

Having Nicole made it easy for Will, BUT Will was playing the camara 24/7 and Danielle screwed that up and should never have let Lisa into the Final 3, she was totally playing for 2nd. I would argue that Will beats anybody in BB2 in a head to head vote, and only Monica making it close. Danielle brilliantly played half the game and forgot the other half.

Peanut Butter Jeff
"If you thought S3 was bad just wait until S5."

Does playing only for something that may or may not happen make someone a good player? Also, wouldn't it have been ~more~ intelligent to keep stronger players around so you can fade further into the background (not that she didn't do a good job of that regardless ;)?

But I don't think we're really arguing because we seem to agree that Vee wasn't really all that great as a player (but how is she worse than Ethan?).

And I agreed on Danielle's single bad move being her choice of companions. The only person she could've beaten at the end was Amy (and possibly Marcellas). She even seemed to realize they'd be good to take to the end. But when it was all done with, she decided to remain loyal instead of going for the win.

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Now let us never speak of S3 again.

>>She was smart enough to vote off Sean when it was time.<<

Vecepia did not vote against Sean. The big decision at that TC was Kathy's, and Vecepia and Sean hoped Kathy would go along with them and vote Neleh out. Kathy opted to side with Neleh and Paschal instead and vote Sean out.

Yep, my bad.

Peanut Butter Jeff
"If you thought S3 was bad just wait until S5."