Survivindawg's thread, "Revisiting Tribe's Selections" made me think of this, but it was too tangential to post there.

What if the first episode title has more meaning than initially thought?

What if the "importance of being eldest" is not only the "Thailand culture" significance, but the possibility that Jan or Jake wins, and wins mostly because each was given that position on day one. Each was artificially designated as the tribe's "Wise Elder" on day one, this results in two things:
#1) Each rising up to this role
#2) The tribes viewing each in this way.

Is the title of episode 1 the smoking gun that everyone searches for in episode 1 as a tip-off of the winner?

I already foresee the biggest criticism here, that this is only being proposed because each seems secure at this point and may last far and hence possibily win.

But I wonder if each is "secure" in this stage of the game BECAUSE of #1 and #2 above, otherwise, they would simply view themselves AND be viewed as the "old person" in the tribe, rather than the "wise elder" in the tribe.

Think about the psychological ramifications of #1 and #2 above. If you were chosen as "wise elder", you would rise up to that challenge, and if the "wise elder" chose you to be on his/her tribe you may be more hesitant to vote that person out.

The summary being that Jan and Jake are secure right now BECAUSE they happen to be the eldest which resulted in their promotion to "wise elder", not solely because of who they were that moment prior to the first tribe determinations on episode 1.

Evidence against above:
--Helen annoyed at Jan's behavior in episode 1
--TDT report of Jake not making Jury (but does that mean LL or final two?)
--Only one minor report of weight loss for Jake (meaning I've only seen one mention somewhere so it is probably not validated)

Evidence for above:
--Major weight loss for Jan
--Jan doing crappy in challenges but no discussions of her being booted
--An interview with Jan where she hid some items that were on her mantle (garnered as a final four contestant?)
--Besides Helen, few to zero negative confessionals on Jan or Jake (but my memory is poor)
--Neither are listed as Ghandia's stars (I'm actually not sure how to interpret that)
--Paratrooper has a Gahn as #2 and a Jai as winner (not much meaning here, just the very ironic possibility that the final two is Jake and Jan)
--Several weeks ago, ABT predicted Jan as #2 and Jake as winner in an interview (this would assume that they KNOW the entire boot list, but yet seemingly got episode #2 and epi #3 bootees wrong, I saw somewhere that they put all their yahoo points on Tanya for epi #2, but have not heard what they did for epi #3 - anyway, yeah, BIG reach here, just the crazy possibility that ABT has gotten a hold of an entire boot list but is sorta smart by purposely posting wrong picks on their website, yet in the end will reference the interview where they predicted winner and runner up - which they would have a 50% shot at being correct if knew final two. Yeehaw, I can here the conspiracy theorists gobbling this up).

Bottom line: I really don't think Jake and Jan are the final two, but I do think Jan may win and that A LOT of the credit for her getting to the merge is because she was LUCKILY placed in the artificial role as "Wise Elder" on day one and that is the importance of "The Importance Of Being Eldest"

Flame or ignore, result is the same, I'll cry.

BI

• RE: The importance of "The importance of being eldest",Drive My Car, 08:58 PM, 10-08-02
• RE: The importance of "The importance of being eldest",AtlantaFatMike, 10:38 PM, 10-08-02

Interesting thoughts BI.
I've been thinking that having the eldest members chose the teams may have kept them around a bit. Previous Survivors the Eldest woman tends to go early ( Sonja, Marilyn) But in S3 Mama Kim was spared because she had protection. I belive Jan is being protected by an alliance also. The older men do well when they are a father figure for their tribe ( Rodger, Pappy) Carl in S3 wasn't considered a Father figure, he was seen as a threat, by the Mallrats. I don't think Rudy was seen as a father type, but was protected by a strong alliance. BB was a grumpy old bossy guy, not a Fatherly type.
By putting the two oldest members in a position to pick the teams, MB may have bought them some time. I see Jan sticking around awhile ( but only due to her protection and some better targets for eviction, Helen is too abrasive, and won't last as long as Jan)
Jake could also stay in the Game, if he adopts the father figure role in his tribe.

Interesting tribe dynamics, this time.

People For The Preservation Of Shakes Enourmous Head

Dude! You made me snort my Diet Dr. Pepper!

Thanks for the chuckle.

AFM