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Original Message
"Hey Chuck... About that cold, dead hand thing."

Posted by IceCat on 04-06-08 at 06:40 AM
Charleton Heston dead at 84.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/04/06/heston.dead/index.html


Table of contents

Messages in this discussion
"Crap..."
Posted by IceCat on 04-06-08 at 06:42 AM

I just got a 3MLH!

Three Minute Lime Helmet


"RE: Crap..."
Posted by kingfish on 04-06-08 at 08:24 AM
Chuck isn't done screwing with you yet, it appears.

I'd tread lightly.


"RE: Crap..."
Posted by Snidget on 04-06-08 at 08:30 AM
*sob*

Apparently we now know where all of UNC's speed went to last night.


"Look for holes in the walls."
Posted by Estee on 04-06-08 at 08:41 AM
You know he got a few shots off at the Reaper.

"Filmography."
Posted by Estee on 04-06-08 at 08:54 AM
This? Will take a while.

# My Father, Rua Alguem 5555 (2003) .... The father (Josef Mengele)
# Ben Hur (2003) (TV) (voice) .... Ben Hur
# The Order (2001) .... Prof. Walter Finley
# Planet of the Apes (2001) (uncredited) .... Zaius, Thade's Father
# Cats & Dogs (2001) (voice) .... The Mastiff
# Town & Country (2001) .... Eugenie's Father
# "The Outer Limits" .... Chief Justice Haden Wainwright (1 episode, 2000)
# Any Given Sunday (1999) .... Commissioner
# Gideon (1999) .... Addison Sinclair
# "Camino de Santiago" (1999) (mini) TV mini-series .... Professor Marcelo Rinaldi
# Bagpipe: Instrument of War - Part 1 (1998) (TV) .... Narrator
# "Sworn to Secrecy: Secrets of War" (1998) TV series ....
# Armageddon (1998/I) (voice) .... Narrator
# Bagpipe: Instrument of War - Part 2 (1998) (TV) .... Narrator
# Hercules (1997) (voice) .... Narrator
# Hamlet (1996) .... Player King
# Alaska (1996) .... Colin Perry the Poacher
# The Dark Mist (1996) (voice) .... Narrator
# In the Mouth of Madness (1995) .... Jackson Harglow
# The Avenging Angel (1995) (TV) .... Brigham Young
# "The Great Battles of the Civil War" (1994) (mini) TV mini-series (voice) .... Abraham Lincoln
# True Lies (1994) .... Spencer Trilby
# "SeaQuest DSV" .... Abalon (1 episode, 1994)
# Texas (1994) (TV) .... Narrator
# Tombstone (1993) .... Henry Hooker
# Wayne's World 2 (1993) .... Good Actor
# "Saturday Night Live" .... Host (2 episodes, 1987-1993)
# Noel (1992) (TV) (voice) .... Narrator
# Crash Landing: The Rescue of Flight 232 (1992) (TV) .... Captain Al Haynes
# Gengis Khan (1992) .... Togrul
# The Crucifer of Blood (1991) (TV) .... Sherlock Holmes
# Cults: Saying No Under Pressure (1991) (V) .... Narrator
# Almost an Angel (1990) (uncredited) .... God
# The Little Kidnappers (1990) (TV) .... James MacKenzie
# Solar Crisis (1990) .... Adm. 'Skeet' Kelso
# Treasure Island (1990) (TV) .... Long John Silver
# Original Sin (1989) (TV) .... Louis Mancini
# Call from Space (1989) (voice) .... Alien
# A Man for All Seasons (1988) (TV) .... Sir Thomas More (also directed)
# Christmas Night with the Two Ronnies (1987) (TV) .... Various Roles
# "The Two Ronnies" (1 episode, 1987)
# Proud Men (1987) (TV) .... Charley Mac Leod Sr.
# "The Colbys" .... Jason Colby / ... (49 episodes, 1985-1987)
... aka Dynasty II: The Colbys (original title (first four episodes title))
# "Dynasty" .... Jason Colby (3 episodes, 1985)
# Nairobi Affair (1984) (TV) .... Lee Cahill
# "Chiefs" (1983) (mini) TV mini-series .... Hugh Holmes
# Mother Lode (1982) .... Silas McGee/Ian McGee (also directed)
# The Awakening (1980) .... Matthew Corbeck
# The Mountain Men (1980) .... Bill Tyler
# Gray Lady Down (1978) .... Capt. Paul Blanchard
# Crossed Swords (1977) .... Henry VIII
# Two-Minute Warning (1976) .... Capt. Peter Holly
# Midway (1976) .... Capt. Matthew Garth
# The Last Hard Men (1976) .... Sam Burgade
# The Fun of Your Life (1975) .... Narrator
# Earthquake (1974) .... Stewart Graff
# The Four Musketeers (1974) .... Cardinal Richelieu
# Airport 1975 (1974) .... Alan Murdock
# The Three Musketeers (1973) .... Cardinal Richelieu
# Soylent Green (1973) .... Detective Robert Thorn
# The Call of the Wild (1972) .... John Thornton
# Skyjacked (1972) .... Capt. Henry 'Hank' O'Hara
# The Special London Bridge Special (1972) .... Tennis player
# Antony and Cleopatra (1972) .... Marc Antony (also had directors' and writers' credit)
# The Omega Man (1971) .... Robert Neville
# The Hawaiians (1970) .... Whipple 'Whip' Hoxworth
# Julius Caesar (1970) .... Marc Antony
# Beneath the Planet of the Apes (1970) .... Taylor
# Number One (1969) .... Ron (Cat) Catlan
# Will Penny (1968) .... Will Penny
# Planet of the Apes (1968) .... George Taylor
# "Hallmark Hall of Fame" .... Robert Devereaux, Earl of Essex / ... (2 episodes, 1963-1968)
- The Patriots (1963) TV episode .... Thomas Jefferson
# Counterpoint (1967) .... Lionel Evans
# All About People (1967) .... Narrator
# Khartoum (1966) .... Gen. Charles 'Chinese' Gordon
# "A Whole Scene Going" (1 episode, 1966)
# What Is a Boy (1966) (TV)
# The War Lord (1965) .... Chrysagon
# The Agony and the Ecstasy (1965) .... Michelangelo
# Major Dundee (1965) .... Major Amos Charles Dundee
# The Greatest Story Ever Told (1965) .... John the Baptist
# The Patriots (1963) (TV) .... Thomas Jefferson
# 55 Days at Peking (1963) .... Maj. Matt Lewis
# Diamond Head (1963) .... Richard 'King' Howland
# The Pigeon That Took Rome (1962) .... Captain Paul MacDougall/Benny the Snatch/Narrator
# El Cid (1961) .... El Cid (Rodrigo Daz de Vivar)
# "Alcoa Premiere" .... Paul Malone (1 episode, 1961)
# Ben-Hur (1959) .... Judah Ben-Hur
# The Wreck of the Mary Deare (1959) .... John Sands
# The Buccaneer (1958) .... Gen. Andrew Jackson
# The Big Country (1958) .... Steve Leech
# Touch of Evil (1958) .... Ramon Miguel 'Mike' Vargas
# Screen Snapshots: Salute to Hollywood (1958) .... Charlton Heston
# "Playhouse 90" .... Charles Gray / ... (2 episodes, 1956-1958)
- Forbidden Area (1956) TV episode .... Major Jesse Price
# "Shirley Temple's Storybook" .... The Beast (1 episode, 1958)
# "Climax!" .... Chipman / ... (2 episodes, 1955-1957)
... aka Climax Mystery Theater (USA)
- The Trial of Captain Wirtz (1957) TV episode .... Chipman
- Bailout at 43,000 Feet (1955) TV episode .... Lieutenant Paul Peterson
# "Schlitz Playhouse of Stars" (2 episodes, 1951-1957)
# Three Violent People (1956) .... Capt. Colt Saunders
# The Ten Commandments (1956) .... Moses
# "General Electric Theater" .... Tim (1 episode, 1955)
- The Seeds of Hate (1955) TV episode .... Tim
# Lucy Gallant (1955) .... Casey Cole
# "Omnibus" (1 episode, 1955)
- The Birth of Modern Times (1955) TV episode
# "Robert Montgomery Presents" .... Peter Handley (3 episodes, 1952-1955)
# The Private War of Major Benson (1955) .... Maj. Bernard R. 'Barney' Benson
# The Far Horizons (1955) .... William Clark
# Secret of the Incas (1954) .... Harry Steele
# The Naked Jungle (1954) .... Christopher Leiningen
# "Danger" (1 episode, 1954)
- Freedom to Get Lost (1954) TV episode
# "Your Show of Shows" (3 episodes, 1951-1954)
... aka Sid Caesar's Show of Shows (UK: rerun title)
- Episode dated 16 January 1954 (1954) TV episode
- Episode dated 22 December 1951 (1951) TV episode
- Episode dated 13 October 1951 (1951) TV episode
# Bad for Each Other (1953) .... Dr. Tom Owen
# "Medallion Theatre" (1 episode, 1953)
- A Day in Town (1953) TV episode
# Arrowhead (1953) .... Ed Bannon
# Pony Express (1953) .... Captain William Frank 'Buffalo Bill' Cody
# The President's Lady (1953) .... President Andrew Jackson
# "The Philco Television Playhouse" (2 episodes, 1950-1953)
- Elegy (1953) TV episode
- Hear My Heart Speak (1950) TV episode
# Ruby Gentry (1952) .... Boake Tackman
# The Savage (1952) .... James 'Jim' Aherne Jr. aka War Bonnet
# "Curtain Call" (1 episode, 1952)
- The Liar (1952) TV episode
# "Studio One" .... Edward Rochester / ... (12 episodes, 1949-1952)
- The Wings of the Dove (1952) TV episode
- A Bolt of Lightning (1951) TV episode .... James Otis
- Macbeth (1951) TV episode .... Macbeth
- Letter from Cairo (1950) TV episode
- Wuthering Heights (1950) TV episode .... Heathcliff
(7 more)
# The Greatest Show on Earth (1952) .... Brad Braden
# "Lux Video Theatre" (1 episode, 1951)
- Route 19 (1951) TV episode
# "Suspense" (3 episodes, 1949-1951)
- Santa Fe Flight (1951) TV episode
- Suspicion (1949) TV episode
- Suspicion (1949) TV episode
# Dark City (1950) .... Danny Haley/Richard Branton
# Julius Caesar (1950) .... Antony
# "The Clock" (1 episode, 1950)
- The Hypnotist (1950) TV episode
# Peer Gynt (1941) .... Peer Gynt


"RE: Filmography."
Posted by kingfish on 04-06-08 at 10:06 AM
Good Grief, that's an acting career of over 60 years.

Was he coherent enough in 2003 to do anything? I am surprised.


"RE: Filmography."
Posted by Gothmog on 04-06-08 at 10:11 AM
Was he coherent enough in 2003 to do anything? I am surprised.

Because normally, 80-yr-olds can do little more than drool...


give me a friggin break.


"RE: Filmography."
Posted by Estee on 04-06-08 at 10:30 AM
Since he had late-stage Alzheimer's at the time of his death, I read it as a not-too-subtle question on the speed of decline.


"RE: Filmography."
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 04-06-08 at 11:26 AM
Yes, typically Alzheimer's lasts for anywhere from five to twenty years. If he was in a late-stage condition, then it's likely his memory was pretty shot for a number of years before his death, overlapping into some of his last few movies. Short-term memory is one of the very first things to be affected at the onset of Alzheimer's -- there are about four stages where memory loss and other deficiencies grow more noticeable before hitting the late-stages where just about everything shuts down.



"RE: Filmography."
Posted by AyaK on 04-06-08 at 04:05 PM
He announced that he had the onset of Alzheimer's in 2002. I presume that the 2003-released role was shot about then, because i doubt he would have taken on another role after seeing how Reagan had ended up.

"RE: Filmography."
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 04-06-08 at 04:34 PM
That's true... but Alzheimer's patients often don't realize they've got Alzheimer's until they're well into the disease -- many people (and doctors?) would write off their condition as part of the normal aging process.

What we don't know is how far along Heston actually was when he made his announcement as the first three or four stages are all considered to be "mild" or "early-stage" Alzheimer's, and the 2nd stage and on all involve some form of memory loss in increasing levels.



"RE: Filmography."
Posted by kingfish on 04-06-08 at 01:04 PM
Thanks for pointing that out, G. I'll try to remember that 80+year olds can be coherent.

Except for personal experience with, oh, my folks, aunts, uncles, G'parents, and second hand accounts of a multitude of 80+ers, I would never have guessed.

I was referring to his Alzheimer's, weisenhimer.


"RE: Filmography."
Posted by RudyRules on 04-06-08 at 05:44 PM
Gothmog,
I don't know what 80 year olds you know, but I know plenty, and most of the ones I know have all of their wits about them.


A TP production!
"Soylent Green is people!"


"RE: Filmography."
Posted by Prof_ Wagstaff on 04-06-08 at 07:23 PM
Please set your computer to accept <<sarcasm>>.

Then try reading the fine print.


14 Carrot Sig by Tribephyl


"RE: Filmography."
Posted by RudyRules on 04-06-08 at 09:10 PM
Good point!


A TP production!
"Them people had to be pretty dumb to make their camp in a riverbed." - Rudy Boesch


"RE: Filmography."
Posted by Prof_ Wagstaff on 04-06-08 at 10:23 AM
Good Grief, that's an over acting career of over 60 years.
There, that's better.

"Take your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!"
RIP Chuck.


14 Carrot Sig by Tribephyl
I loved watching him battle the army ants in The Naked Jungle when I was a kid.


"RE: Filmography."
Posted by txriverwillow on 04-06-08 at 05:20 PM
It is amazing how often he was the voice of someone or narrator. He did have a very commanding voice that reached right into you.



"R.I.P. Mr. President"
Posted by RudyRules on 04-06-08 at 12:23 PM
OK, To repeat what I posted on Snidget's thread...

It is a time for all of America to be in mourning for a truly great man who stood for all that is right in this great land of ours.
You will be missed, Mr. Heston, my president.
R.I.P.

And to add...
One of his very best speeches, given to the Harvard Law School Forum, February 16, 1999. This is MUST reading for every American...

Here is the text of that speech:

I remember my son when he was 5, explaining to his kindergarten class what his father did for a living. "My Daddy," he said, "pretends to be people." There have been quite a few of them. Prophets from the Old and New Testaments, a couple of Christian saints, generals of various nationalities and different centuries, several kings, three American presidents, a French cardinal and two geniuses, including Michelangelo.

If you want the ceiling re-painted I'll do my best. There always seem to be a lot of different fellows up here. I'm never sure which one of them gets to talk. Right now, I guess I'm the guy.

As I pondered our visit tonight it struck me: if my Creator gave me the gift to connect you with the hearts and minds of those great men, then I want to use that same gift now to re-connect you with your own sense of liberty ... your own freedom of thought ... your own compass for what is right.

Dedicating the memorial at Gettysburg, Abraham Lincoln said of America, "We are now engaged in a great Civil War, testing whether this nation or any nation so conceived and so dedicated can long endure."

Those words are true again. I believe that we are again engaged in a great civil war, a cultural war that's about to hijack your birthright to think and say what resides in your heart. I fear you no longer trust the pulsing lifeblood of liberty inside you ... the stuff that made this country rise from wilderness into the miracle that it is. Let me back up. About a year ago I became president of the National Rifle Association, which protects the right to keep and bear arms. I ran for office, I was elected, and now I serve ... I serve as a moving target for the media who've called me everything from "ridiculous" and "duped" to a "brain-injured, senile, crazy old man." I know ... I'm pretty old ... but I sure thank the Lord ain't senile. As I have stood in the crosshairs of those who target Second Amendment freedoms, I've realized that firearms are not the only issue. No, it's much, much bigger than that. I've come to understand that a cultural war is raging across our land, in which, with Orwellian fervor, certain acceptable thoughts and speech are mandated.

For example, I marched for civil rights with Dr. King in 1963 -- long before Hollywood found it fashionable. But when I told an audience last year that white pride is just as valid as black pride or red pride or anyone else's pride, they called me a racist.

I've worked with brilliantly talented homosexuals all my life. But when I told an audience that gay rights should extend no further than your rights or my rights, I was called a homophobe.

I served in World War II against the Axis powers. But during a speech, when I drew an analogy between singling out innocent Jews and singling out innocent gun owners, I was called an anti-Semite.

Everyone I know knows I would never raise a closed fist against my country. But when I asked an audience to oppose this cultural persecution, I was compared to Timothy McVeigh.

From Time magazine to friends and colleagues, they're essentially saying, "Chuck, how dare you speak your mind. You are using language not authorized for public consumption!"

But I am not afraid. If Americans believed in political correctness, we'd still be King George's boys-subjects bound to the British crown.

In his book, "The End of Sanity," Martin Gross writes that "blatantly irrational behavior is rapidly being established as the norm in almost every area of human endeavor. There seem to be new customs, new rules, new anti-intellectual theories regularly foisted on us from every direction. Underneath, the nation is roiling. Americans know something, without a name is undermining the nation, turning the mind mushy when it comes to separating truth from falsehood and right from wrong. And they don't like it."

Let me read a few examples. At Antioch college in Ohio, young men seeking intimacy with a coed must get verbal permission at each step of the process from kissing to petting to final copulation ... all clearly spelled out in a printed college directive.

In New Jersey, despite the death of several patients nationwide who had been infected by dentists who had concealed their AIDS --- the state commissioner announced that health providers who are HIV-positive need not. .. need not ... tell their patients that they are infected.

At William and Mary, students tried to change the name of the school team "The Tribe" because it was supposedly insulting to local Indians, only to learn that authentic Virginia chiefs truly like the name. In San Francisco, city fathers passed an ordinance protecting the rights of transvestites to cross-dress on the job, and for transsexuals to have separate toilet facilities while undergoing sex change surgery.

In New York City, kids who don't speak a word of Spanish have been placed in bilingual classes to learn their three R's in Spanish solely because their last names sound Hispanic.

At the University of Pennsylvania, in a state where thousands died at Gettysburg opposing slavery, the president of that college officially set up segregated dormitory space for black students.

Yeah, I know ... that's out of bounds now. Dr. King said "Negroes." Jimmy Baldwin and most of us on the March said "black." But it's a no-no now.

For me, hyphenated identities are awkward ... particularly "Native-American." I'm a Native American, for God's sake. I also happen to be a blood-initiated brother of the Miniconjou Sioux. On my wife's side, my grandson is a 13th-generation Native American ... with a capital letter on "American."
Finally, just last month ... David Howard, head of the Washington D.C. Office of Public Advocate, used the word "niggardly" while talking to colleagues about budgetary matters. Of course, 'niggardly' means stingy or scanty. But within days Howard was forced to publicly apologize and resign.

As columnist Tony Snow wrote: "David Howard got fired because some people in public employ were morons who (a) didn't know the meaning of 'niggardly,' (b) didn't know how to use a dictionary to discover the meaning, and (c) actually demanded that he apologize for their ignorance."

What does all of this mean? It means that telling us what to think has evolved into telling us what to say, so telling us what to do can't be far behind. Before you claim to be a champion of free thought, tell me: Why did political correctness originate on America's campuses? And why do you continue to tolerate it? Why do you, who're supposed to debate ideas, surrender to their suppression?

Let's be honest. Who here thinks your professors can say what they really believe? It scares me to death, and should scare you too, that the superstition of political correctness rules the halls of reason.

You are the best and the brightest. You, here in the fertile cradle of American academia, here in the castle of learning on the Charles River, you are the cream. But I submit that you, and your counterparts across the land, are the most socially conformed and politically silenced generation since Concord Bridge.

And as long as you validate that ... and abide it ... you are-by your grandfathers' standards-cowards. Here's another example. Right now at more than one major university, Second Amendment scholars and researchers are being told to shut up about their findings or they'll lose their jobs. Why? Because their research findings would undermine big-city mayor's pending lawsuits that seek to extort hundreds of millions of dollars from firearm manufacturers.

I don't care what you think about guns. But if you are not shocked at that, I am shocked at you. Who will guard the raw material of unfettered ideas, if not you? Who will defend the core value of academia, if you supposed soldiers of free thought and expression lay down your arms and plead, "Don't shoot me."

If you talk about race, it does not make you a racist. If you see distinctions between the genders, it does not make you a sexist. If you think critically about a denomination, it does not make you anti-religion. If you accept but don't celebrate homosexuality, it does not make you a homophobe.

Don't let America's universities continue to serve as incubators for this rampant epidemic of new McCarthyism. But what can you do? How can anyone prevail against such pervasive social subjugation?

The answer's been here all along. I learned it 36 years ago, on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial in Washington D.C., standing with Dr. Martin Luther King and two hundred thousand people.

You simply ... disobey. Peaceably, yes. Respectfully, of course. Nonviolently, absolutely. But when told how to think or what to say or how to behave, we don't. We disobey social protocol that stifles and stigmatizes personal freedom.

I learned the awesome power of disobedience from Dr. King ... who learned it from Gandhi, and Thoreau and Jesus and every other great man who led those in the right against those with the might.

Disobedience is in our DNA. We feel innate kinship with that Disobedient spirit that tossed tea into Boston Harbor, that sent Thoreau to jail, that refused to sit in the back of the bus, that protested a war in Vietnam.

In that same spirit, I am asking you to disavow cultural correctness with massive disobedience of rogue authority, social directives and onerous law that weaken personal freedom.

But be careful ... it hurts. Disobedience demands that you put yourself at risk. Dr. King stood on lots of balconies. You must be willing to be humiliated ... to endure the modern-day equivalent of the police dogs at Montgomery and the water Cannons at Selma. You must be willing to experience discomfort. I'm not Complaining, but my own decades of social activism have taken their toll on me. Let me tell you a story.

A few years back I heard about a rapper named Ice-T who was selling a CD called "Cop Killer" celebrating ambushing and murdering police officers. It was being marketed by none other than Time/Warner, the biggest entertainment conglomerate in the world. Police across the country were outraged. Rightfully so-at least one had been murdered. But Time/Warner was stonewalling because the CD was a cash cow for them, and the media were tiptoeing around it because the rapper was black. I heard Time/Warner had a stockholders meeting scheduled in Beverly Hills. I owned some shares at the time, so I decided to attend.

What I did there was against the advice of my family and colleagues. I asked for the floor. To a hushed room of a thousand average American stockholders, I simply read the full lyrics of "Cop Killer" -- every vicious, vulgar, instructional word.

"I GOT MY 12 GAUGE SAWED OFF I GOT MY HEADLIGHTS TURNED OFF I'm ABOUT TO BUST SOME SHOTS OFF I'm ABOUT TO DUST SOME COPS OFF..."

It got worse, a lot worse. I won't read the rest of it to you. But trust me, the room was a sea of shocked, frozen, blanched faces. The Time/Warner executives squirmed in their chairs and stared at their shoes. They hated me for that. Then I delivered another volley of sick lyric brimming with racist filth, where Ice-T fantasizes about sodomizing two 12-year old nieces of Al and Tipper Gore. "SHE PUSHED HER BUTT AGAINST MY ...."
Well, I won't do to you here what I did to them. Let's just say I left the room in echoing silence. When I read the lyrics to the waiting press corps, one of them said "We can't print that." "I know," I replied, "but Time/Warner s selling it."

Two months later, Time/Warner terminated Ice-T's contract. I'll never be offered another film by Warners, or get a good review from Time magazine. But disobedience means you must be willing to act, not just talk.

When a mugger sues his elderly victim for defending herself ... jam the switchboard of the district attorney's office. When your university is pressured to lower standards until 80 percent of the students graduate with honors ... choke the halls of the board of regents. When an 8-year-old boy pecks a girl's cheek on the playground and gets hauled into court for sexual harassment ... march on that school and block its doorways. When someone you elected is seduced by political power and betrays you ... petition them, oust them, banish them. When Time magazine's cover portrays millennium nuts as deranged, crazy Christians holding a cross as it did last month ... boycott their magazine and the products it advertises.

So that this nation may long endure, I urge you to follow in the hallowed footsteps of the great disobediences of history that freed exiles, founded religions, defeated tyrants, and yes, in the hands of an aroused rabble in arms and a few great men, by God's grace, built this country.

If Dr. King were here, I think he would agree.

Thank you.

Thank YOU Mr. Heston, Thank YOU!



A TP production!
"Them people had to be pretty dumb to make their camp in a riverbed." - Rudy Boesch


"RE: R.I.P. Mr. President"
Posted by KeithFan on 04-06-08 at 12:47 PM
I'd never read that. Thanks Rudy!


"RE: R.I.P. Mr. President"
Posted by RudyRules on 04-06-08 at 05:39 PM
My pleasure KF.
That speech should be required reading in every High School civics class, at the very least.


A TP production!
"Them people had to be pretty dumb to make their camp in a riverbed." - Rudy Boesch


"RE: R.I.P. Mr. President"
Posted by whimsey on 04-06-08 at 07:29 PM
I think I hear what you're saying Rudy, but this is what I hear Mr. Heston saying: I hear him comparing his (not yet) loss of freedom to bear arms and (implied) loss of income from Time/Warner, of which he was a significant shareholder, with the indignities suffered by Dr. King. I hear that type of majority arrogance whenever he appears as himself.
I hear Mr. Heston touting his perceived personal losses, which will never compare to the day-to-day losses of us regular folk. Sorry, can't hang my hat on his dilettante, "I marched with King" presented persona. While I agree that Mr. Heston is a talented actor, his personal campaigns don't rise that far.

I don't confuse someone who portrays men of greatness with being a person of greatness. And I certainly don't encourage youth of today to do so.



BTW - reading repugnant rap lyrics with the voice of "Moses" is a nice touch, but it doesn't make you brilliant or socially aware.


"RE: R.I.P. Mr. President"
Posted by AyaK on 04-07-08 at 11:24 AM
I was actually at that speech, as an HLS student at the time (admission was by ticket only).

I didn't hear Heston comparing himself to King. I heard him telling a story about something he'd done. Was he being civilly disobedient? No. Was he at risk of arrest? No. But he was saying that your actions can bring pressure on private businesses, and that you should be willing to take this step ... as King was.

This doesn't implicate the First Amendment, as someone else states here (incorrectly), because he isn't urging government action. Really, as he said at the end of Rudy's quote, it's the action of a discontented rabble threatening economic coercion, not a government threatening speech suppression.

But it still has overtones of the Sons of Liberty to me. And I don't think that's a good thing. Were I a Time Warner stockholder, I'd have wanted the corporation to pursue ways to make money, not to worry about Charlton Heston and negative PR. Like Marx, I'm willing to sell the revolutionaries the rope to make our nooses -- but, unlike Marx, I'll rely on government's police powers to prevent the private hanging.

As it was, Interscope Records ended up with another distributor, and that company's shareholders were the ones who profited.


"RE: R.I.P. Mr. President"
Posted by newsomewayne on 04-08-08 at 08:00 AM
>I think I hear what you're
>saying Rudy, but this is
>what I hear Mr. Heston
>saying: I hear him
>comparing his (not yet) loss
>of freedom to bear arms
>and (implied) loss of income
>from Time/Warner, of which he
>was a significant shareholder, with
>the indignities suffered by Dr.
>King.

IF what you say is true, why would one have to lose a freedom before it is okay to speak out about it?


It's party time! Agman is excellent! 2008


"RE: R.I.P. Mr. President"
Posted by Prof_ Wagstaff on 04-06-08 at 08:34 PM
I am truly disgusted that actors like Sean Penn and Charlton Heston are allowed to run their mouths about politics just because they are celebrities!

Shut up and act!


14 Carrot Sig by Tribephyl
Doh! <<sarcasm>>


"RE: R.I.P. Mr. President"
Posted by RudyRules on 04-06-08 at 09:15 PM
The good Prof makes lots of interesting and sarcastic points today!


A TP production!
Mr. Heston probably made more sense in his last days than Sean Penn has ever made. <<sarcasm>>


"RE: R.I.P. Mr. President"
Posted by jbug on 04-06-08 at 09:53 PM
Thanks for posting that Rudy. I always admired the man for standing up for what he believed.

Unfortunately some will look for 'alternative' reasons for his statements. Too bad. Read it and accept.


One of Shar's unique creations


"RE: R.I.P. Mr. President"
Posted by HistoryDetective on 04-07-08 at 05:39 AM
Read it and accept.

Exactly!

I encourage my students to never engage in close reading or critical thinking when they are presented with a text. We should always take documents and speeches simply at face value instead of actually thinking about them or trying to place them in a larger context.

Doing anything else would be irresponsible.


"Frankly, I don't care what you think." --- PagongRatEater, 20 October 2007


"RE: R.I.P. Mr. President"
Posted by Tahj on 04-07-08 at 11:43 AM
*snort*

Read it and accept. = Drink the Kool-Aid


It's a Tribe!


"RE: R.I.P. Mr. President"
Posted by jbug on 04-07-08 at 01:31 PM
You know that's not what I meant. I was trying to say 'don't read between the lines and put more words in his mouth that he actually said.'

I get tired of constantly hearing people analyze other's words to death. I'd like to listen to what a person says and form my own opinion about what they mean - rather than someone else telling me. Same thing with the political campaigns now.


Final 2 with Agman


"RE: R.I.P. Mr. President"
Posted by Tahj on 04-07-08 at 02:29 PM
Sorry jbug, that's how it looked to me, but thanks for clarifying. It helps.


It's a Tribe!


"Being irresponsible."
Posted by Estee on 04-07-08 at 01:53 PM
I'm still considering casting Charlton Heston as the voice of O-Chul.

'And you find the idea that I have some sort of secret knowledge implanted in my brain by the elders of the Sapphire Guard that has been so deeply suppressed that no magic can unearth it to be simpler... than the idea that I just don't know anything?'

Let's face it: he was about the only man on the planet who could have made that sentence work.

Well, him or whoever does Peter Griffin. Either way, really.


"RE: Being irresponsible."
Posted by Colonel Zoidberg on 04-07-08 at 05:01 PM
'And you find the idea that I have some sort of secret knowledge implanted in my brain by the elders of the Sapphire Guard that has been so deeply suppressed that no magic can unearth it to be simpler... than the idea that I just don't know anything?'

Yeah, that sounds like Seth MacFarlane.


GO RED WINGS! GO WILD!


"RE: Being irresponsible."
Posted by Estee on 04-07-08 at 05:12 PM
At this point, the plotline is just about that twisted.

I had to look up the lampshade.


"RE: R.I.P. Mr. President"
Posted by Prof_ Wagstaff on 04-06-08 at 11:09 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-06-08 AT 11:54 PM (EST)

You know, I was going to let this slide, but I can't.

A few years back I heard about a rapper named Ice-T who was selling a CD called "Cop Killer" celebrating ambushing and murdering police officers. It was being marketed by none other than Time/Warner, the biggest entertainment conglomerate in the world. Police across the country were outraged. Rightfully so-at least one had been murdered. But Time/Warner was stonewalling because the CD was a cash cow for them, and the media were tiptoeing around it because the rapper was black. I heard Time/Warner had a stockholders meeting scheduled in Beverly Hills. I owned some shares at the time, so I decided to attend.

What I did there was against the advice of my family and colleagues. I asked for the floor. To a hushed room of a thousand average American stockholders, I simply read the full lyrics of "Cop Killer" -- every vicious, vulgar, instructional word.

"I GOT MY 12 GAUGE SAWED OFF I GOT MY HEADLIGHTS TURNED OFF I'm ABOUT TO BUST SOME SHOTS OFF I'm ABOUT TO DUST SOME COPS OFF..."

I was doing gang outreach in Minneapolis, when this song hit the streets. No one that I was working with, black or white appreciated Ice-T's rap. It certainly never helped in the work that we were trying to do.

That said, we did understand that Ice-T was a performer, out to make a buck. Like ALL performers. We understood that he was just playing off the attitude of the streets, to make a buck.

In the end, Gangsta Rap made it's money and died the death it duly deserved.

As for Charlton Heston, it is a shame that he cared considerably less about the 1st Ammendment rights than he did about the 2nd.

So I'm sorry, but I am very unimpressed with this whole diatribe.

Edited to add: Cause I just can't seem to stop with this one alone.

I've worked with brilliantly talented homosexuals all my life. But when I told an audience that gay rights should extend no further than your rights or my rights, I was called a homophobe.

Does he mean the RIGHT that we all have to marry and raise a family?
It would appear that Chuck was all for human rights as long as they didn't go too far. It would appear that Chuck was all for human rights as long as they stayed within his comfortable parameters.

He sounds a lot like my dad, rest is soul.
They had many of the same ideas. I hope that these attitudes are finally layed to rest with them.

RIP.



14 Carrot Sig by Tribephyl


"RE: R.I.P. Mr. President"
Posted by brvnkrz on 04-07-08 at 09:08 AM
*swoons* Stares are Prof with dreamy eyes. I think I lvoe you.

An Arkie original.

"RE: R.I.P. Mr. President"
Posted by AyaK on 04-07-08 at 01:54 PM
I've worked with brilliantly talented homosexuals all my life. But when I told an audience that gay rights should extend no further than your rights or my rights, I was called a homophobe.

I didn't get this at the time, either. We debated this comment afterward. On the one hand, he could be saying that being gay shouldn't be treated as a "suspect category" for purposes of discrimination, which would be in line with mainstream Republican thinking at the time. On the other hand, he could be saying that permitting same-sex marriage was giving gays extra rights, which would be a stupid thing to say to a law-school audience.

But even if you take the more benign view of his comment ("suspect category"), why shouldn't it be a suspect category? Anyone who didn't believe that anti-gay discrimination has been pervasive up to 1999 hadn't been watching the debate in Vermont about civil unions.

But the truth is, I didn't go to this to hear Charlton Heston's political comments, any more than I go to an R.E.M. concert to hear theirs or to a Julie Andrews book signing to hear hers.


"Context."
Posted by Estee on 04-07-08 at 11:30 AM
I told an audience that gay rights should extend no further than your rights or my rights

Very true.

Let me know when we get there.


"RE: Hey Chuck... About that cold, dead hand thing."
Posted by Molaholic on 04-06-08 at 01:43 PM

"Behold, I bring you these 15 Com..." <stumble> <drop> <crash> "DAMN! Behold, I bring you these 10 Commandments!"

Right?


another gem from the Much Learned agman

"Take your stinking paws off me, you damn, dirty ape!" -- RIP Taylor.


"RE: Hey Chuck... About that cold, dead hand thing."
Posted by Prof_ Wagstaff on 04-06-08 at 02:10 PM
"Take your stinking paws off me, you damn, dirty ape!" -- RIP Taylor.

What? Rip Taylor said that???



Agman, Artist to the Court of the Grand Duchy of Freedonia


"RE: Hey Chuck... About that cold, dead hand thing."
Posted by miamicatt on 04-07-08 at 05:14 PM
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!

AWESOME scene.


"RE: Hey Chuck... About that cold, dead hand thing."
Posted by Scuba Steve on 04-06-08 at 06:48 PM
RIP Charlton Heston

I always respected his acting abilities but not his opinions.



"RE: Hey Chuck... About that cold, dead hand thing."
Posted by AyaK on 04-06-08 at 09:50 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-06-08 AT 09:58 PM (EST)

He was a better actor than he gets credit for, because he became famous for the overblown Cecil B. DeMille productions (The Greatest Show on Earth, The Ten Commandments). But he did some great movies, such as Touch of Evil..


"RE: Hey Chuck... About that cold, dead hand thing."
Posted by Prof_ Wagstaff on 04-06-08 at 10:15 PM
I find it interesting that you take away points for his work with Cecil B DeMile (The Greatest Show on Earth, The Ten Commandments), but give him credit for his work with Orson Wells (Touch of Evil). I don't disgree with your assessment of those films (ie. the director is the auteur), but it does seem to prove, at least where Charlton Heston is concerned, that Alfred Hitchcock was correct... Actors are cattle.


...because people often come bearing gifts.


"RE: Hey Chuck... About that cold, dead hand thing."
Posted by mysticwolf on 04-06-08 at 11:40 PM
Actors are cattle

Yes. And, that's what they are paid to be. In some rare instances an actor can, or is allowed to, rise above what the Director sees as their role. But, realistically, if the actor doesn't deliver what the Director (or, in some instances, the Producers) want to see they get replaced, not paid.

Frankly, I'm surprised AyaK didn't mention his role in Soylent Green. Watch it again. For Charleston Heston to play what might have been construed as a gay character who ended up as the hero, in an age where homosexuality was nowhere close to being accepted, shows that he did have some acting talent and took his art for what it was. And, he could be good at it.

I didn't always agree with his views, but I also never much cared what they were. Like others, I've never based my opinions on what celebrities have to say. If they're not speaking about their area of expertise (and, I'll grant that a few - some few - have actually seemed to gain some expertise in the non-acting areas they choose to speak about) they speak as any other citizen. I'll listen, but their celebrity holds no sway.

I will say that, if you read past the NRA dogma (I dropped my NRA membership long ago - I can see a need to regulate private ownership of assault weapons), much of what he had to say about personal freedoms and government intrusion on them was right in line with many of my thoughts.

I can't help but wonder if some of his more outrageous statements were, in part, the result on Alzheimer's on-set, or an attempt to - DAW-like - stay in the spotlight. Can't say. Will never know.

I thank him for what he gave me. (And, to be fair, in the days those Cecil B. DeMille films were being made, they were a cut above a the rest - no matter how modern society wishes to view them in retrospect.) I thank him for having the courage to live his convictions (even when I disagreed). I'm sorry he and his family had to deal with Alzheimers. I don't wish that on anyone. If I could give that much to Reagan, I can give it to him. He did far less damage.

R.I.P. Mr. Heston.


A Sweet Seana
I get a kick out of thinking of his meeting some of the historical characters he played. I hope, for his sake, they liked his performance, but it would be interesting to hear their critiques. That could, in itself, make an interesting play if written and directed by someone with talent.


"Heston's roles"
Posted by AyaK on 04-07-08 at 07:44 AM
I was going to cite Soylent Green, but I wasn't sure it would be taken seriously after Ted Turner's "Soylent Green" rap this week.

DeMille wanted his people to overact -- to appear larger than life. Brando, for example, couldn't have starred in a DeMille film. Jimmy Stewart played his entire role in The Greatest Show on Earth in clown makeup, which helped him deal with it.

That's the reason we see Heston as kinda hammy today. Well, that and Planet of the Apes, but Heston had to carry that movie because the other actors, lugging around all that makeup, had no choice but to underact. But he really was a good actor in his younger years, unlike, say, Reagan, whose best movie (Kings Row) was little more than a glorified soap opera.

Soylent Green: recycling America, one person at a time.


"RE: Heston's roles"
Posted by dabo on 04-07-08 at 11:45 AM
LAST EDITED ON 04-07-08 AT 11:51 AM (EST)

Planet of the Apes is fascinating, though the original novel is superior in many ways as a study in segregation (via dystopian science-fiction) the film does it better. To be fair to the actors, McDowell and Hunter and Evans and so on had to employ devises built into their ape disguises or it would have seemed just so many Halloween masks on film, and Harrison as mute Nova could only emote and react. So, yes, Heston did have to carry the film. He also had to go to battle with the censors to keep the G-D line intact, few actors at the time had that kind of clout or would have bothered to make an issue of it.


"RE: Hey Chuck... About that cold, dead hand thing."
Posted by dabo on 04-07-08 at 09:05 AM
Rest in peace, Chuck. A truly great actor who was able to lend credibility to even the most badly written dreck.

"RE: Hey Chuck... About that cold, dead hand thing."
Posted by Estee on 04-07-08 at 10:47 AM
to even the most badly written dreck.

So we've finally found nature's perfect Big Brother contestant.

Houseguests, please haul your fellow contestant's corpse into the Diary Room.


"RE: Hey Chuck... About that cold, dead hand thing."
Posted by Ahtumbreez on 04-07-08 at 09:57 AM
I had a high school crush on Chuck until I saw Mother Lode in college. It took me forever to realize that the nasty old mountain recluse was Heston. His crush-worthiness died a quick death. It was probably for the best, our view on things wouldn't have exactly promoted a harmonious relationship.


Agman took me to the islands


"RE: Hey Chuck... About that cold, dead hand thing."
Posted by Spanky68 on 04-07-08 at 11:52 AM
RIP, Mr. Heston. You were a great actor and a fine human being. We will miss you.


Agman made this fancy sig for me


"RE: Hey Chuck... About that cold, dead hand thing."
Posted by ginger on 04-07-08 at 01:44 PM
I always liked Phil Hartman's imitation of Heston, doing readings from Madonna's sex book.

*deep Charlton voice*: I love...my vagina.



"RE: Hey Chuck... About that cold, dead hand thing."
Posted by miamicatt on 04-07-08 at 04:38 PM
Me too.

Now I feel kinda bad -- Jimbo and I were laughing our butts off over Easter weekend watching "The Ten Commandments" and his delivery.

"I WILL DWELL IN THIS LAND"



Sorry Mr. Heston. Rest in peace.


"RE: Hey Chuck... About that cold, dead hand thing."
Posted by Estee on 04-07-08 at 04:44 PM
Kind of makes you wonder at how he would have done at slaughtering junior Jedi trainees.

"I HAVE MOMMY ISSUES!"


"RE: Hey Chuck... About that cold, dead hand thing."
Posted by AyaK on 04-07-08 at 05:43 PM
Watch Major Dundee and you'll know the answer to that question.


"It's available tonight."
Posted by Estee on 04-08-08 at 04:30 PM
Turner Classic Movies is airing it at 10 p.m. EDT.

Obviously scheduled well in advance and it wasn't intended as part of a Heston tribute at the time -- but it's still mildly weird to see it crop up now.


"RE: It's available tonight."
Posted by AyaK on 04-08-08 at 05:14 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-08-08 AT 05:17 PM (EST)

Which version? The partially-restored 136-min one, which generally makes sense? Or the studio-cut 123-minute one, which sometimes doesn't?

Edited to add: See this synopsis for the differences.


"RE: It's available tonight."
Posted by Estee on 04-08-08 at 05:24 PM
Umm... the 'fits in a two and a half hour block on the newspaper's TV grid' one. Which isn't a lot of help because while TCM doesn't do much in commercials, they do have commentary at the beginning and end, plus lotsa trailers. Checking TCM's website...

It's the 136-minute version. Looking at the films airing to either side of it, this was probably intended as a Richard Harris block.


"RE: It's available tonight."
Posted by dabo on 04-08-08 at 05:32 PM
Duration: 150 min. Best guess. Followed by Hawaii.