Ok, I've been pondering a few things that dont make sense. I firmly believe that Ghandia and Gdiva are the same person, but the numbers and the given alliances don't seem to make much sense if we are to believe Gdiva's stars are also looser lodge buds of hers. For starters there are already too many for it to be completely true, and given the other spoilers we have concerning weight loss etc. I was having a little trouble making it all work, but then in discussing with a friend and reading this post by true it all became clear.

Fist off this week. true is dead on as everything looks to be pointing at Stephanie, which means of course she is safe. The alternate SJ would of course be Robb, but if SJ goes back to TC would they really risk voting off a second strong person in row? Of course they WOULD, but they wont really do it. Especially since Stephanie is more of an outsider than Robb who blistered his hands in the creation of the masterpiece fort. So if Robb is safe... and Stephanie is not a Gdiva star, there is ONLY one other choice. Ghandia starts her looser lodge stay this week.

Ok that gets us past requirement #1, Ghandia must be at the looser lodge. Now requirement #2 Robb, Shii Ann, and Ken must join her (Brian gets a pass since she already knows him and doesnt know the others). How can this happen? Easy a switch. As shown last time MB doesnt mind swapping out uneven, and if anyone is concerned about whether a switch happens or not just check out the JP interview interview on the Survivor site (and I quote):

Robert: How much latitude do the producers have on creating rules on the fly? i.e.: When in Africa you all of a sudden had people changing tribes.
Jeff Probst: Zero. Nothing is done on the fly. Everything is charted out in advance. We knew we were going to switch tribes. We knew what day, and within a couple of hours we knew what time. There is a lawyer from CBS on site at all times whose job it is to make sure that the game is fair.

Looks like there isnt really a question of whether there is a swap, just a matter of when will it be (yeah he could be lying but why bother after the fact like this). Ok so given the rules from last season the tribes will swap uneven 7-5, execpt this time as luck would have it the 7 will include 4 CG's and 3 SJ's. Shii Ann and Robb will be among be the lucky SJ's and after two intentional losses will join their smoking buddy Ghandia in the lodge.

At this point the tribe will merge. Old alliances will prevail and a 5-5 split (or 6-4 if Steph is ticked) will be resolved with Ken (ie the strongest SJ) being evicted in typical survivor style. Not to much of a stretch to get the right people in the looser lodge with the everyone's favorite Gdiva. At this point the pagonging will begin. Steph who looks to be gone but is really the redeamed underdog will hang around for a while, maybe winning a challenge or two to stay around MUCH longer than expected. Heck, she might just win the thing!

-ICB

GBT

• RE: Gdiva, the Switch, and why Steph goes FAR,I_AM_HE, 02:37 AM, 10-05-02
• RE: Gdiva, the Switch, and why Steph goes FAR,Yogi, 02:59 AM, 10-05-02
  • RE: Gdiva, the Switch, and why Steph goes FAR,ZJ, 05:30 AM, 10-05-02
    • RE: Gdiva, the Switch, and why Steph goes FAR,Loree, 02:36 PM, 10-05-02
  • RE: Gdiva, the Switch, and why Steph goes FAR,sleeeve, 09:21 PM, 10-05-02
  • RE: Gdiva, the Switch, and why Steph goes FAR,Draco Malfoy, 08:37 AM, 10-07-02
• RE: Gdiva, the Switch, and why Steph goes FAR,AresMars, 10:36 AM, 10-05-02
• RE: Gdiva, the Switch, and why Steph goes FAR,BMH, 12:04 PM, 10-05-02
• RE: Gdiva, the Switch, and why Steph goes FAR,ejm92, 12:25 PM, 10-05-02
  • RE: Gdiva, the Switch, and why Steph goes FAR,BMH, 12:45 PM, 10-05-02
• RE: Gdiva, the Switch, and why Steph goes FAR,Loree, 02:49 PM, 10-05-02
  • RE: Gdiva, the Switch, and why Steph goes FAR,survivormitsx, 03:11 PM, 10-05-02
• RE: Gdiva, the Switch, and why Steph goes FAR,munson, 03:04 PM, 10-05-02
  • RE: Gdiva, the Switch, and why Steph goes FAR,idiotcowboy, 12:26 PM, 10-06-02
• RE: Gdiva, the Switch, and why Steph goes FAR,true, 05:18 PM, 10-05-02
  • RE: Gdiva, the Switch, and why Steph goes FAR,BMH, 09:35 PM, 10-05-02
    • Actually...,idiotcowboy, 12:12 PM, 10-06-02
      • RE: Actually...,BMH, 12:27 PM, 10-06-02
  • RE: Gdiva, the Switch, and why Steph goes FAR,ulalame, 09:46 PM, 10-05-02
• Question about pre-game contact...,sablebunny, 08:39 PM, 10-06-02
  • RE: Question about pre-game contact...,sleeeve, 08:43 PM, 10-06-02
    • RE: Question about pre-game contact...,MeToo, 11:32 AM, 10-07-02
      • RE: Question about pre-game contact...,sleeeve, 03:48 PM, 10-07-02
• RE: Gdiva, the Switch, and why Steph goes FAR,samboohoo, 10:28 AM, 10-07-02
  • RE: Gdiva, the Switch, and why Steph goes FAR,ShowMeTheWinner, 03:00 PM, 10-07-02

I agree with you ICB, and this is a scenario I've considered and find at least fairly likely, but i do think you are misinterpreting Jiffy's quote there. It seems clear to me that he is saying that the switch IN AFRICA was predetermined, not saying anything about the possibility of a switch in thailand

just my $0.02

What you are forgetting about is Gdiva's 'smoker buddies'.
Clay, Robb, and Shii Ann.

If we believe Gdiva then the next 4 boots have to be
Ghandia, Clay, Robb and Shii Ann. After that everyone is
on the jury (as per previous shows).
OR, they all make it to the jury which gives them the chance
to 'hang out' and smoke.

Gdiva also mentions 'partying' with the crew.
Would not the jury members stay on the island (Tent city)?
This would give Ghandia a chance to 'party' with the crew.

I personally think Gdiva's 'stars' are people who she thought
were 'attractive' and not necessarily 'stars' of the show.

Just throwing in my nickels worth (Canadian).

Does anyone think that there will be a dominant tribe as in S1, S2 and S3 after the tribes merge? OR will there be like a mixture in S4?

If CG is the dominant tribe, I pick Jan to make it to the final 2. Remember that at Final 4, the first immunity challenge is Fallen Comrades, looking at Ted, Brian and Clay, i don't think they will know as much as their teammates as Jan will probably do. When it gets down to 3, the IC will be Hand on a Hard Idol, which i think Jan will win. Only in S2 was there no such IC, in S1, S3 and S4, the winner was a female. I also read somewhere that endurance of females are way higher than that of males, which is the reason why females generally win this challenge. Then Jan makes it to the final 2!

If SJ is the dominant tribe, I think Penny and Ken are going to make it. Ken by virtue of winning the immunity challenges(I can't see Erin winning any immunity esp if she has to balance herself on the hard idol)... I think if Stephanie makes it to the merge, she seems capable of winning a few IC.

I believe Brian could be very good at the Fallen Comrades. He seems to sit back and take it all in. Everyone seems to like him including the booted members. He is a listener. We really don't know if Jan is taking it all in or just avoiding any contraversy. She doesn't always seem to know what is going on. She just goes with the flow.

>Gdiva also mentions 'partying' with the
>crew.
>Would not the jury members stay
>on the island (Tent city)?

Jury members are expressly forbidden from making contact with crew members or with the first seven people voted out of the game... we've been told this in at least 5 separate interviews since S3 (which is when CBS Lawyers started monitoring the game for fairness).

Remember Kelly mentioning how bored she was for three days after being voted out of S3... she had no one to talk to, and said that she spent all of her time reading until Brandon finally joined her at loser lodge three days later.

Therefore, if Ghandia had the chance to "party with crew members", then she clearly MUST be voted out before the merge.

However... remember that there has always been a final cast party on night #39 with all 16 cast members and the entire crew, so she might also be referring to that specific event, in which case the spoiler is meaningless.

LAST EDITED ON 10-07-02 AT 08:38 AM (EST)

I do find it odd that people who follow one of GDiva's "spoilers" don't follow the other. She says that Clay is one of her "smoking buddies", but that she has problems with the "person who prepares the food". Which means that it's probably heleN she has problems with, not Clay.

Of course, she doesn't necessarily have to go to loser lodge with Clay to know that he smokes. If you've ever been around 2 smokers deprived of their cancer sticks, you know that we'll whine a lot about it. They probably bonded that way. Maybe they even smoked something natural in their desperation. Mmm.... leaves...

I agree that Shii Ann and Robb would have to go to LL with her for her to know about their smoking habits, but with Clay, that's not a foregone conclusion.

We all float down here.

Edited to change "b!tch" to "whine". Now if I could change water to wine I'd be a happy man.

I'm not sure we can infer from the quote there will be a switch this season. JP's answer is specifally about the Africa swithch and I don't see any mention made of Thailand so...
1) We have no confirmation they will switch.
2) If there is a switch we don't know if it will be like last year or the year before. I can't accept that it is a given that it will be like last year since last year wasn't like the year before.

My personal opinion is that you are correct and there will be an uneven switch but I just can't seem to infer from the quote what you are.
One thing that bugs me is the band color of the torches. I know this is out there but I think it plays into the switch. What if when the switch occurs everyone with gold bands is on one team and silver on the other? Like I said it's out there but I can't get it out of my head.

God Bless America

There are two types of people, predators and prey, and the sound you hear is the sharpening of my claws.

I agree with some of your thoughts on the switch..and ya Gdiva is Ghandia..it is so obvious..what I want to know is what MB did to her for posting..she maybe got her money taking away or something..who knows

However..I dont think Stephanie goes far..Her and Robb are the targets at SJ..no matter how strong they may be..She will go first because she is sick as it is..and it doesn't help that she sleeps in the rain everynight..lol..Unless some major spoilers and good info come up in the next week..I think we can pretty much say if SJ loses..Stephanie is gone...and if CG loses Ghandia is gone..

I don't know if I totally agree on GDiva being Ghandia...the internet is so anonymous, it could be anyone with any inside info on the show whatsoever. I don't see how Ghandia would be so stupid to risk whatever money she earned plus a huge lawsuit or something for spoiling the show.....and I think it is a bit closed minded right now to believe everything that was said...I'm taking it all with a couple grains of salt...unless he gets trapped on a tribe with Robb and Ken, I don't see how Clay could go before the merge unless Ted went before he did. And Helen is being overlooked here, too. She is in a pretty good position right now if you ask me, she could go far...and I don't see any given situation where Jake doesn't make the final six or so, proboably bringing Erin and Penny and maybe Shii along with him...it's too early to make "for sure" decisions about down the road, I don't believe the GDiva posts fully.

Now that you said that..your right..we can never say for certain...if Gdiva is Ghandia..but there is alot of info backing it up..if Ghandia goes this week..thats evidence that shows..why she named Jed and Tanya as "stars" cuz she got to know them at loser lodge..and that means that the next 3 boots would probably have to be Robb(a "star"),Clay(smoked with him), and Shii Ann(star)

But I agree..that Jake is definitely one Sook-Jai that goes far..and I can see Penny and even Shii ann going far with him..despite the spoilers against Shii...because Ken is so strong he will probably make the merge..but he is a goner..because he is a threat..but Jake,Shii,and Penny,and even Erin are less of a threat to the CG tribe post merge

If I had to vote right now I would vote Ghandia gets the boot. I think MB is throwing Stephanie's isolation from her tribe too obviously at us. (Reminds me of Kathy last season when her tribe would win.) And I think he has worked up this men vs the women to try and cause doubt if Ghandia or Ted goes this week. We can see that Ghandia is on the outside and she will be booted. So I don't think MB would even try and convince us that the women are against Ted unless he needed some suspense for that tribe when they go to TC. I don't believe there is a men against women anymore and it wouldn't need to be used if their tribe was not going to TC this week. He could tease us with the fact Ghandia was gone and then surprise us by the other tribe losing the IC. Instead we are being told Steph is the loner and there is a big gender fight at the other tribe with the women wanting Ted out. But I believe Ghandia will be voted out 5-1. No suspense unless MB makes it.

Loree, Your probably right, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one, because I do think Stephwhorenie goes episode 4.
Did anyone else notice last weeks preview focused HEAVILY on Chuay Gahn, and the whole Men vs. Women thing? Well, their doing it again, and Sook Jai's quotes like "Oh yea we threw that challenge" cockiness will come back to bite them in the ass this week. They won't intetionally throw this next challenge, but they will, IMHO, lose it. The whole episode was centered around Ghandia, and it seems its been edited so far as the people who have the least amount of airtime but are still bootee material get the axe. Look at Jed. Episode 2, he was huge character, however, his story didn't seem to have much arch. How many confessionals did he get in epi 3? ONE. Ghandia is way too obvious at this point to me; I don't think she goes into the merge, but she will be our lindsey-esque boot-EPISODE 6.
In Episode 5, there will be a switch, and this is where we will all start to care for Robb, since he is the last person in his alliance. He will then start playing the game smart, and to save himself, take out one of the Sook Jai men who he doesn't care for, and give CG members the majority in the newly formed tribe (If i didn't mention what it thought the twist would be, i think it will be like a random swap type a thing...2 girls for two guys or men vs. woman for two episodes.) So then Robb will think he's in with the alliances, when then they realize that clay will never vote with him, causing Robb to say farewell episode five- the bartender boot. In episode 6, Ghandia will be gone for good. She still has a lot of life in it, and it doesn't seem like its closing for me. I dunno, all of this is subject to change of course, but these are just my gut feelings.

If your happy and you know it, Do the Cooper dance!!

Hey, ICB. I brought up the same sort of scenario here:
http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID2/3026.shtml#23
and although I got the specifics wrong, I agree that as a result of the switch, the original tribes will head into the merge at even strength and Ken is a likely candidate to not make the jury with an E7 boot.

However, I don't know if this means we'll see the "inevitable" Pagonging of the old SJ. There are a couple of interview quotes and rumors floating around that mention backstabbing (this from JP) and unexpected turns as well as Paratroopers spoiler about at least one Sookie in the F3.

I'm going to keep my eye on Helen, who IMO, is the fifth member of a five person alliance and might just look, perhaps along with Jan, to do some wheelin' and dealin'.

hey munson! I do think the further out any spec goes the more likely it is wrong. In fact I could be off base about Steph, but as it has looked really bad for her for several episodes AND when the web preview went of it's way to hi-lite her plight I became intent on find a logical way she could stay in the game that fit in with some of the other seaminly inconsistent spoilers we have. While I still believe there will be a switch in E5, steph is safe this week, and steph is as likely as anyone to be the despondent one... I now am a little hesitant to fully embrace Ghandia as the boot. Shii Ann despite her seemed appearance of safty is starting to really concern me.

-ICB

LAST EDITED ON 10-05-02 AT 05:20 PM (EST)

Let's look at this quote, from Jeff's CBS chat again-

Robert: How much latitude do the producers have on creating rules on the fly? i.e.: When in Africa you all of a sudden had people changing tribes.
Jeff Probst: Zero. Nothing is done on the fly. Everything is charted out in advance. We knew we were going to switch tribes. We knew what day, and within a couple of hours we knew what time. There is a lawyer from CBS on site at all times whose job it is to make sure that the game is fair.

First of all, he is not refering specifically to Africa in his answer. The question clearly states i.e. (for example) He's answering the first part of the question generally for all Survivor editions. There's no other way to interpret the question.

The switch, or any other "twist" is clearly plotted out in advance of the taping. The contestants may not be told of the exact nature of any "twists", but I'm sure they are told not to expect anything. Does this mean that MB could ditch the planned twist, according to how the game is progressing? I don't know, but I doubt he would. JP clearly states that the timing of any twist is pretty exact. Somehow I can't see them trying to come up with alternate challenges etc. to fill the time that the twist would have, at the last minute.

So far, there seems to be enough drama/conflict in the show, that a switch doesn't seem necessary. My thinking tells me that the episode 5 title, Ocean's surprise, means a twist that ep. If a few of the Red tribe members with weight loss spoilers were sent to Purple camp, those spoilers would start to make more sense. Since I'm convinced that Ghandia doesnt last much longer, due to the surprisingly accurate Enquirer article, and her posts on SS, I'm wondering how she would get to know both Robb and Shii Ann (smoking buddies) if they weren't all three at loser lodge together. Then you have to wonder how Shii Ann gets there before Stephanie. Robb, I can make a strong case for, but Shii Ann before Steph? If Steph is so outcast on the purple tribe, why wouldn't she go before Shii Ann? A switch is the easiest way to explain it.

Yes..a twist could explain why Shii-Ann could go before Stephanie..but I dont think that is the case..because Survivornews..already has stated that they have recieved reliable evidence that Stephanie interacted with others at loser lodge..and survivornews is like never wrong...so as crazy as it seems I think that Stephanie is outta here before Shii..it just makes the most sense..boot 4 will be Ghandia or Stephanie..those are the only 2 I feel confident about if their tribe loses the IC

The exact quote is this:

"We've received unconfirmed tips of her interacting with others at Loser's Lodge. She's starting to buzz on the boot meter now."

http://survivornews.net/snn.php?sid=scorecard

Which is a far cry from "reliable evidence"

-ICB

Oh thanx!..I couldn't remember what was actually said about Stephanie..yes that isn't really reliable evidence..but there must be some kind of evidence..because obvioulsy Snews feels confident enough to give Steph a thumbs down..so I still think she is gone before the merge..

The other thing we have yet to see on a Survivor, but which has been widely speculated about for several seasons, is the "early merge." What if the "Ocean's Surprise" episode is an early merge of the tribes, at 12 instead of ten? This could lead to a reason behind Ghandia's "stars" and smokers lists, without the players having to be voted out pre- or post-merger to have known each other.

Not sure where this question fits, but I think it'll be ok here.

I've been following all the threads about the GDiva stuff and the switch/no switch theories, etc. and something has started to bother me...

If they had a pre-game boot camp sort of thing where they could get together and smoke, etc., seems to me they would actually have had a good opportunity to get to know each other to some degree. I've been to traffic school classes where a five minute conversation during a break makes you feel like you've known someone your whole life (especially if you bond on the issue of speeding laws being arbitrarily and capriciously applied...but I digress). So if that's the case, why did it seem like they had never met before when Jan and Jake were picking teams?

I'm wondering about pre-game contact because it seems to me that would impact on the issue of a switch. If MB let them have contact beforehand, he would have to know that would affect how the teams are picked. That would make me lean more towards the idea he's planned a switch because that puts MB back in control. If they had little to no contact beforehand it makes the picking sides thing more arbitrary and less likely to lead to a switch.

I hope that all made sense. This is my first post to the Spoilers board and I have to admit I'm a little intimidated by you all, so please be kind .

We know that before S1, MB allowed the contestants to mingle a little bit, as you describe... he said that it was the worst mistake in Survivor history.

Ever since then, contestants have been required to keep their eyes on the ground. They may not speak in any way in front of other contestants, and they may not even make eye contact.

Basically, they aren't even supposed to look at each other (although it's clear from post-game interviews that they violate this rule) until we first see them together on television.

So what you saw was real... they knew nothing about each other until that point.

You never know what might be up my sleeeve...

This has come up a few times and I thought I'd finally chime in. As a former smoker, I can tell you that it's pretty easy to figure out who your fellow smokers are - especially these days when you have to go outside. Ghandia could easily recognize the others from the smoking area, rather than actually knowing them well.

MeToo

Except that, with the exception of Survival training, the contestants aren't even allowed to be in the same room with each other. I have a hard time figuring out when they would be together "for a smoke" pregame... This is DEFINATELY something that MB would want to prevent.

You never know what might be up my sleeeve...

Lot of stuff to ponder Cowboy!

Regarding Gdiva: I do believe that Ghandia is Gdiva also. In Episode 3 (pre-Ted/Ghandia Blow Up), I thought I heard Ted actually refer to Ghandia as a diva when he made some mention about going over and sitting next to Ms. Diva or something to that extent. I don't have this episode on tape, so if anyone does, please correct me if I'm mistaken.

Regarding the Switch: I don't think there will be one this time. As Jeff has said during at least one of his interviews, they like to keep the game fresh and are always trying to think of things to keep the game fresh and keep the viewers and players on their toes. Based on the tribe selection process and the upcoming episode titles (which scream "switch"), I'm going against there being a switch this time.

Regarding Ghandia's Stars and Stephanie: I'm still a little up in the air about all of this. Jake chose Stephanie because of that twinkle in her eye and her buff physique, but so far she has been a disappointment -- all obvious signs point to a trip to the Loser Lodge for her. Maybe once she gets a little food and rest, she's back to her old flirty, take it all off self. And I can certainly see Ghandia having no respect for that, thus leaving Steph off of Ghandia's list. Or does Steph make the merge and never get to know Ghandia.

By the way, there is a headline on the cover of this week's Globe indicating that Steph's marriage may be suffering as a result of her taking it all off. Haven't read the article, just saw it in the checkout line.

>By the way, there is a
>headline on the cover of
>this week's Globe indicating that
>Steph's marriage may be suffering
>as a result of her
>taking it all off.
>Haven't read the article, just
>saw it in the checkout
>line.

You're kidding! I thought she's single?!!

Kathy O'Brien... The Sole Survivor! (I'd rather be delusional)