URL: http://community.realitytvworld.com/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/rtvw2/community/dcboard.cgi
Forum: DCForumID44
Thread Number: 2964
[ Go back to previous page ]
Original Message
"Did AI make Casey change his song pick at the last minute last night?"
Posted by zazzy on 05-19-10 at 11:33 AM
Speculation from other boards...don't know why I didn't think of it much last night...but the People.com description of Casey's song at rehearsal and what we saw last night were vastly different:

"In a bright blue shirt and holding his guitar, Casey was accompanied on stage by his amp. His upbeat tune started with vigor, kicking into a solid groove that will have people on their feet and dancing."


When Casey performed on the live show last night there was no amp,& the tune wasn't that upbeat to have people on their feet and dancing.

I commented last night that Casey played like he knew the fix was in because of Ellen's commenting on her show with two different guests that the finale would be Lee and Crystal. Maybe his song choice and expression was about more than that.

The "It's OK With Me" says a lot imo. I wonder how many years before we know about some of this stuff.


I'm guessing Casey brought some of the vibe back from his Texas hometown performances and AI snuffed it out.

The lighting did "crown" Lee last night. ;)

Table of contents
Messages in this discussion
"RE: Did AI make Casey change his song pick at the last minute last night?"
Posted by KoalaChick on 05-19-10 at 12:00 PM
You are so right about the lighting! I noticed the "halo" during both songs.

And Simon does get really smug about his song choices each year. Again, the self-satisfied smile as Lee finished up Hallelujah.

"RE: Did AI make Casey change his song pick at the last minute last night?"
Posted by Estee on 05-19-10 at 12:21 PM
This theory is spreading faster than the stench of last night's overpimping: most of the places I've checked believe Casey was ordered/forced to change his setup, and there's a couple wondering what he was given to sell out. (Most show-attuned answer: nothing. Absolutely nothing. He should feel honored just to be there.) The judges, stage, singing order, and hysterical praise were all tuned to Lee last night -- so much that it makes you wonder what Crystal did.

You can really see where VFTW is coming from right now. It's worth putting Casey through just to sabotage this hideously blatant plan. But -- a few hours too late...

"RE: Did AI make Casey change his song pick at the last minute last night?"
Posted by Snidget on 05-19-10 at 12:32 PM
You mean other than her facebook shout out to VFTW?

I can't recall but I think that was around the time she started getting depimped a bit and when the Lee prais-o-rama got turned up to full butt-lick.

"RE: Did AI make Casey change his song pick at the last minute last night?"
Posted by zazzy on 05-19-10 at 12:34 PM
ROFL
"RE: Did AI make Casey change his song pick at the last minute last night?"
Posted by Estee on 05-19-10 at 12:47 PM
I think they've done a 180 from the butt.

And you should probably change the first two letters on 'lick'.

"RE: Did AI make Casey change his song pick at the last minute last night?"
Posted by Tummy on 05-19-10 at 04:37 PM
I bet they were holding his box hostage and wouldn't give it back unless he changed.
"RE: Did AI make Casey change his song pick at the last minute last night?"
Posted by geekboy on 05-19-10 at 01:34 PM
And here comes the annual conspiracy theories. It wouldn't be a season of Idol without them.


"I think what Randy Travis was trying to say was 'What the hell was that?!'" - S. Cowell

"RE: Did AI make Casey change his song pick at the last minute last night?"
Posted by zazzy on 05-19-10 at 01:53 PM
GB, I've been telling you about Lee for weeks! I even posted about his pre idol albums and videos before the top 12.

Then there's his 4 pimp spots in the season.

You have agreed that there's been pimpage in past seasons... why the change of mind?

"RE: Did AI make Casey change his song pick at the last minute last night?"
Posted by geekboy on 05-19-10 at 05:10 PM
LAST EDITED ON 05-19-10 AT 05:12 PM (EST)

As I've said season after season after season after season.....

Yes, there is pimpage. Yes, there are inconsistancies in the judges comments. Yes, there is the 'pimp spot'.

So what? Does this affect how you and I rate the performances? No. Do I think it has any effect overall on the voting public? No.

I contend that Casey did himself in last night. He picked a horrible song as his own selection, and played it as he has played most of the weeks of the competition.

Yes, they gave CAsey a horrible judge's choice song, but with his chops ont eh guitar and blues ... he could have SRV'd it up a few notches. John Mayer is a blues guy himself. His songs fit blues riffs. He could have done SO MUCH MORE with Daughters. He could have done SO MUCH MORE all season.

I don't believe they forced a song choice change 'last minute'. you hear these claims every damn season, and nothing ever comes out publically.

With respect to Lee's lighting and choir ... why didn't the other two bring out backing singers last night? Why didn't they have 'halo-riffic' lighting? They could have. They chose not to.

geekboy


"I think what Randy Travis was trying to say was 'What the hell was that?!'" - S. Cowell

"RE: Did AI make Casey change his song pick at the last minute last night?"
Posted by zazzy on 05-19-10 at 05:53 PM
Geekboy, we have interviews from previous AI contestants saying that they DO ask for more production stuff for their performances but are turned down by the producers. Like Adam and the stairs last year. Allison got to use them, too, but not everyone who wanted to use them.

And maybe you don't read the pimpage thread but there can NOT be a coincidence that the person who sings 8th on top 10 night places first or second in all of the seasons but one!

You and I have this discussion on an annual basis.

Till next season!

"RE: Did AI make Casey change his song pick at the last minute last night?"
Posted by frodis on 05-19-10 at 06:10 PM
I have to admit, zazzy, that sometimes the things that you've pointed out as pimping seem a little over the top (or more like coincidences than conscious pimping) but I do not doubt that the producers do try to drive particular angles.

This is probably a thought for after the season, not for final 3 week, but I wonder how one would look at the long-term effects of pimping, and when certain pimping techniques are employed. How much pimping was done in earlier seasons, and how much of the later season pimping was driven as a response to things that happened earlier?

I think with the whole notion of "America Voting" the producers do resort to promoting certain agendas where they can. America has shown some predictability in voting (the rally for underdogs, for example.) With due respect to Taylor Hicks and his fans (of which I know there are some here) I'd guess that an AI producer doesn't necessarily want to be stuck with another one of him.

One thing was pretty clear to me, though, last night. Lee got the choir of angelic voices descending upon him as he stood awash in bright white lights. The camera angle was looking up at him, creating a sense of rising or uplifting.

Casey stood center stage singing "Daughters" with very little in the way of any production values at all. The camera was mainly looking at him from a diagonal, downward shot. "Tamping down" indeed.

How is that an even playing field? Lee's "moment" was partly him, but largely created for him with smoke, lights, timing, camera angles and inspirational backup singers. The song itself lent itself to a moment, and the production staff spackled it all in with fancy stuff.

(Thank goodness they didn't employ the barfo-cam that they used on the Lee/Crystal duet last week. I'm still recovering from that.)

"RE: Did AI make Casey change his song pick at the last minute last night?"
Posted by Snidget on 05-19-10 at 06:18 PM
Yep there certainly is an agenda and if it had zero influence on America they'd probably give it up.

Chris and Phil talked about some of the staging tricks (lights and sound) http://content.usatoday.com/communities/idolchatter/post/2010/02/how-to-tell-when-american-idol-is-playing-favorites/1

Performance order is considered a factor in a lot of judged contests and there are certain ways humans perceive things and one of the ways to manipulate perception is performance order.

I do think there are enough reports of song changes late in the game that I'm sure it happens. How much is "we don't want to pay for that song, for you" and how much is "we don't want people to hear you sing that well" I dunno.

However it is hard to treat all your kids equal when you really want one to succeed and others of them fail.

"RE: Did AI make Casey change his song pick at the last minute last night?"
Posted by frodis on 05-19-10 at 06:36 PM
It's kind of a fun look at influencing human behavior. I do wonder how much of it is seriously engineered pimping and how much is coincidence.

Just to be clear - I didn't mean that as a criticism of zazzy or the pimp watchdogs, just that sometimes things are pointed out and attributed to pimping that I'd never notice in a million years and I think it's over the top - but that doesn't mean that it's NOT intentional pimping. Just that the sum of the little things add up over a season.

I find myself wondering if there are AI people who analyze the vote trending and compare to previous seasons and use that to drive production for the current season. I think it would be fun to have that job, actually.

"RE: Did AI make Casey change his song pick at the last minute last night?"
Posted by Snidget on 05-19-10 at 08:29 PM
LAST EDITED ON 05-19-10 AT 08:30 PM (EST)

Given so much of show business is about how to evoke a certain emotional response from a viewer/listener I'd be shocked if none of the how to make people root for the hero, hate the villain, love the lover, etc that is used in scripted work makes it into reality TV.

I'm sure someone out of all the production people knows that givin someone the hero swelling with victory music during the audition footage would create a different mood than neutral or sad music.

ETA: I do think sometimes there are things that may be by chance, but when the person that always gets a positive edit gets hero lighting, etc. it seems unlikely to be all just happenstance.

"RE: Did AI make Casey change his song pick at the last minute last night?"
Posted by zazzy on 05-21-10 at 01:45 PM
I don't expect to have everyone agree with my POV and there are times I am flat wrong, like when I thought there wouldn't be a boot the week of IGB. (Still think it was bad taste!)

So, next time, Frodis, when you think things are coincidence or a little over the top, please weigh in on the pimpage thread.

I lost the verve for tracking pimpage this year...so I haven't recorded all the pimpage-y things they did for Lee and Crystal.

But I did more enthusiastically track pimpage along with others in previous seasons--and last season I compiled a list of all the things I saw that the show had been doing that comprised of pimpage or techniques to the outcome they want.


It's in posts 76-80 here:

http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID44/2709.shtml

And then this year we had Phil and Chris S from season 6 chorusing some of those same points in their interviews--Snidge posted that already. Carmen R from S2 also wrote articles about some of the show's tactics, like giving Clay tons of time with the vocal coach and she barely got any; or someone from AI telling her they were concerned about her singing off key because they had heard her earlier in the day...right before she went on to sing for the night. It stayed in her mind the whole time...am I off key? That's just one way they mess with your confidence.)

I've been watching since season 1. I haven't seen absolutely every show, but most shows, depending on the season, except for the audition shows. Those are a turn off for me.

I can't recall how much pimpage was done in season 1, but looking at performance order, Kelly was the only one to get two pimp spots in the top 10 through top 3.

Season 2 Clay or Ruben got the pimp spot nearly every week in the top 12 except for two times--so the producers were into the pimpage thing back then.

Then with season 3 I really started to see it, and it bugged me the way they pimped Fantasia over LaToya and Jen (& it took me a long time to warm up to Fanny after that season). Having her bring her baby up on stage was just one of the ploys.

(BTW, Simon was on Oprah yesterday and talked about how he knew Fantasia and Carrie were "The One" in their seasons from when they audtioned. And how there is only "One" out of the top 10, not ten.)

Season 4 Carrie got a lot of pimpage. BTW, did you know that at on F2 performance night Bo Bice had some sort of food poisoning and was throwing up before having to sing? Carrie had chops but she was so wooden on AI while Bo could work the stage. And remember his a capella "In a Dream"? Hard to work the stage on F2 night when you are about to hurl.

But it was Season 5 where I really noticed the full PR machine at work, with Daughtry getting tons of articles written about him and creating the impression that he would win when Dial Idol (which was more reliable back then) was showing that Chris D had already slipped in popularity and then even the show showed that he was b3 at top 7. The show gave him the pimp spot again the next week (the third for the season) and that saved him top 6 week. And he was booted at top 4, Elvis week, much to their dismay.

Then, the show did not have the outcome they wanted. So that night they let Taylor reprise his Jailhouse Rock on results night, getting an extra performance for America that the other two did not get. How unfair was that for Elliot and Kat? So even then they went to pimpage plan B. Still, after the season ended, Chris D got all the promotional and PR support while AI milked Taylor's fan base. Pimpage lasts longer than just the season.

By season 6 I tracked a lot of the pimpage and saw how they brought Jordin along as the "growth" story. Never mind that she was in Junior Idol and a totally known quantity to them prior to the seasons starting. I still feel bad for Melinda D.

Season 7 it was clear the week that they turned on Michael Johns that they wanted a David vs David F2. That's what they made sure they got. It's like they had story boarded the season!

Season 8.... you could tell it was supposed to be Adam vs Danny G only Danny did the Scream On at F3 and Kris did Heartless, and that was the end of Danny; and then at F2 Danny's votes went to Kris, who had been delivering all along, instead of Adam. But once again, we know who gets more support after the season.

And that leads us to this season.

F3 night People.com had favorable things to say about Casey's rehearsal. Come the actual performance, there's no amp on stage anywhere and the band starts the song *before Casey even has the guitar pick out of his pocket and is ready to play*. He was rushed at the beginning of the song. They have little tricks that you can see if you watch for it.

So, Lee or Crystal?

Looking back over the season, it's likely Lee at this point. I shoulda known the week MTV and MJ from MJsbigblog both put out articles about why Crystal couldn't win.

Maybe, just maybe, Crystal will have a moment on Tuesday night that will eclipse whatever they do for Lee.

"RE: Did AI make Casey change his song pick at the last minute last night?"
Posted by cahaya on 05-19-10 at 06:25 PM
... he could have SRV'd it up a few notches. John Mayer is a blues guy himself. His songs fit blues riffs. He could have done SO MUCH MORE with Daughters.

Totally agree. Just imagine an electric blues set, riffing it, killin' it, all along on the axe (and turn on the distortion, too to really crank it) even with his same voice.

Funny you say SRV (partly 'cuz I'm a huge SRV fan) because that's the kind of sound I'd get out of this song's lyrics. I'd try my hand freestyle with it.

The problem I see with Casey is that he can't get out of that lamb-ish box of his (even, pardon a pun with an SRV song like Mary Had a Little Lamb). He's stuck in a vocal and play rut instead of a groove and all we'll hear out of him is more of the same.


Agman's Muse

"RE: Did AI make Casey change his song pick at the last minute last night?"
Posted by mtb002 on 05-19-10 at 08:25 PM
Everyone who says Casey didn't bring it last night is right. I'm disappointed that he didn't break it down and let go like he did at Keys. However, there are 2 huge differences. The tv cameras and the time restriction. How are you supposed to adequately showcase your voice and your shredding ability and your soul in 90 sec? Take a look at the times on those youtube clips. It just doesn't compute for him. I think the cameras and Kara make him uncomfortable. So he is what he is. What he is to me is a much better guitar player than Lee is a vocalist. YMMV.

As to TPTB making him change songs, I don't think that's exactly the case. Sounds more like the stage hand in charge of getting his amp out didn't do it, which is why Casey was caught with his pants around his ankles and his pick in his pocket when the band started. Could still be sabotage, just not as blatant as previously thought.

"RE: Did AI make Casey change his song pick at the last minute last night?"
Posted by cahaya on 05-19-10 at 08:58 PM
LAST EDITED ON 05-19-10 AT 09:00 PM (EST)

Ok, this runs about double of 90 secs, but a single half (take your pick, first or second -- or middle!) will do.

"RE: Did AI make Casey change his song pick at the last minute last night?"
Posted by mtb002 on 05-19-10 at 09:15 PM
There was a grand total of 15 sec of vocal in that, he would have gotten ripped for not showcasing his vocals. ITA about SRV, I just think he should have tried to cut down "Pride & Joy." It's pretty well known and plenty of vocal. I wanted snarling, one handed guitar shredding, hair tossing, pointing and stomping. He didn't bring it.
"RE: Did AI make Casey change his song pick at the last minute last night?"
Posted by cahaya on 05-19-10 at 10:56 PM
Well, actually, this clip has about 40 seconds of vocals (I clocked it), in two rounds, easily edited to 90 seconds total, mostly by cutting some of the intro. I think we agree, though, that Casey could have showcased his talents, both vocal and with the guitar, a lot better than he did in the alloted 90 seconds, and still rock it. And even then, I don't think his style is suited for bona fide Texas electric blues.
"Contestant's Veto?"
Posted by byoffer on 05-19-10 at 10:33 PM
Though I am not commenting on conspiracy theories, add me to the list of people who things the judges song choices were very inconsistent last night.
- Lee was given a gold medal song, that IMO was so good that even his so-so delivery still left as a great overall performance.
- Crystal's song was okay, but her attempt to mix it up left it a bit off. IMO not a great song choice for her.
- Casey was given a great song, but not a great AI song. It is a slow song, and while very nice just doesn't get the crowd going like, say, Lee's song. Plus Lee's song is still in the crowd honeymoon phase after being used so great by kd Lang at the Olympics.

They give the judges a veto in case one of the contestants has a bad night. Maybe they should give the contestants a veto in case the judges have a bad night when assigning songs!

"RE: Did AI make Casey change his song pick at the last minute last night?"
Posted by zazzy on 05-21-10 at 12:23 PM
Casey's on Ellen today.

He sings Ray Charles' "I Don't Need No Doctor"

"RE: Did AI make Casey change his song pick at the last minute last night?"
Posted by mtb002 on 05-21-10 at 07:11 PM
I wonder if he knows LK "Always on the Run"? Thats a panty dropper, no mistake.