I think you meant that tongue in cheek, but VFTW couldn't get Amanda O into the top ten to make the tour last season. So how much clout do they really have?

Even if "vote for the worst" accounts for only one percent of total votes, I think this is huge in the early rounds.

At top 10, the last place vote getter may get like 5% of the total votes cast. 1% additional votes is huge at that time. At final 2 round the 1% additional votes from "vote for the worst" is not nearly as significant.

That's my point--they should have an impact in the early rounds, but we have seen many instances of their early round picks getting booted, like Amanda O.

LAST EDITED ON 05-22-09 AT 01:17 PM (EST)

Sometimes even a 1% boost is not going to be enough.

After all they do tend to vote for the people no one else wants to see stick around.

I do think sometimes, depending on circumstance, they can be the difference in which week someone leaves. I think Amanda was unlikely to make the tour no matter what and IMO lasted a week longer than she probably would have without them. I kinda felt sorry for her. I think after week one of the semis she wanted out of there, but her fans wouldn't let her go.

ETA: Basically I see it this way, when there is a reason for America to rally behind someone (either the bad was entertainingly bad, or they just want to keep someone in to spite Simon, etc.) I think the extra votes from VFTW probably helps to reinforce that and may make the difference in any given week.

VFTW will tend to stick with that person even if the next week they don't really give America a reason to keep them around. They usually don't choose anyone with long term staying power if they can help it. So you can't expect an early pick to make it to the finals or win.

Even though Amanda didn't make the tour, Megan did. So sometimes things work out and sometimes they don't. Heck people that shouldn't have stayed did before VFTW was founded. That was part of the reason they got going. I think they may make it happen a little more often than it would organically. Mostly they are just having fun for a rather twisted value of fun. I don't think they take themselves or their "mission" all that seriously.

I don't give VFTW any credit for doing anything that changes AI. People like to think they do, but give me proof.

I think VFTW is just a place people go to bash AI and that's fine.

geekboy

"I think what Randy Travis was trying to say was 'What the hell was that?!'" - S. Cowell

ITA that they totally overpimped Adam.

Danny, too. So, people became really invested in Danny. How different would things have been if the F3 were Adam/Allison/Kris?

Another thing the show did was restrict per usual the songs at F3 and F2. If they had allowed more contestants' choices, Adam would have had more of an opportunity to "make a moment". As it was, he peaked earlier around Mad World and Born to be Wild. Those were stand outs. After that it seemed like more of the same.

I think Adam should have come out and done an a capella song ala Bo Bice at F3 season 5, In A Dream.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmeS3v_w4Kk

Instead, he only got one chance in F3 and F2 to do one new song of his choosing. He's been quoted saying U2's One was not his thing. So when he had a chance he did a rock song, Cryin', to show what he wanted to be post idol. But it was more of what we had seen. It was not a grabber imo, one that played over and over in your head the way Mad World and Born to be Wild did. Kris's performance of Heartless stood out because earlier in the season Kanye had performed it as a rap song. He out-Kanyed Kanye!

I've read many comments on other boards that Adam seemed like he screamed a lot. He did put a lot of yowls in the last few songs he sang. He has the chops to do a capella. I think it would have made an AI moment, would have made a difference.

In a way, i agree with you. Adam could have chosen somehting other than 'Cryin' and had a moment...like Kris did. I think the fact that he didn't choose more of a "moment" song when given the chance hurt him.

I think Kris' choice and performance of "Heartless" was a true game-changer for the final three. I compare it to Bo's acapella rendition of "In A Dream".

Simon said repeatedly that Adam was fearless. I think doing "Heartless" with just an acoustic guitar and a mic was Kris showing he was fearless. It was risky, it was a well-known current song that he chose to mix up completely. If that isn't fearless, what is?

Yes, there is a votes from the voted off people, there is the pimping, there is a story arc, but in the end i think - go figure - the actual vocals and performances count. What a concept. Again, I think "Heartless" helped Kris more than we give it credit for.

geekboy

"I think what Randy Travis was trying to say was 'What the hell was that?!'" - S. Cowell

I don't know that you can plan it well, but I do think Kris managed to have all his moments late in the competition, which does help with that come from behind, had to work hard for it type of story arc. People do love that sort of thing and will vote for the underdog that really does seem to be trying hard to make it in the end.

Having those Idol moments late in the competition compared to Adam who had most of his earlier own will help. Kinda like singing last on a given night helps. Peaking too early is something I feel a lot of people on AI have done. You don't want your most memorable performance to be from the semifinals or the first couple of weeks.

But again, how much of that you can plan in advanced, I don't know. I think more often than not it is just what happens when people try to do their best with whatever gets tossed at them from week to week.

I agree totally, but...

The only chance Idol contestants have to make their own 'moment' is on the rare occasion of having a 'contestants choice' song, which unfortunately is becoming more rare year after year.

So, in the final three they get that chance. Kris' brings out his version of "Heartless" which was a brilliant choice/arrangement and i contend helped him win in a BIG way.

Adam brings out "Cryin" which really does nothing for him. Adam had an equal chance of having a "moment". I really expected him to pull out something like Bowie's "Ziggy Stardust" or a performance-ready Queen song like "These Are The Days Of Our Lives"...but he does a pretty conventional Aerosmith song.

I think it had a large part in him coming in 2nd.

geekboy

"I think what Randy Travis was trying to say was 'What the hell was that?!'" - S. Cowell

Unfortunately I think there is a lot of hind sight being 20/20 and the issue with what themes actually give someone an opportunity for their moment.

I'm not sure you can easily predict ahead of time which song is really going to be the one that people remember. If you are lucky it happens to come together near the end of the series and you did the right things to get to the end up until then.

So I don't know how much of Heartless at the right time was brilliance planning and how much was he's just lucky he did the right song at the right time.

I think it played a role in spurring Kris's fan base to really vote their hearts out, but there were other factors as well.

First, the teens and pre-teens are more likely to vote over and over, and are more likely to text. I should know -- I'm in my thirties, and I don't text -- although that's because I don't have a text phone. The teens and pre-teens may have been going more for Kris than for Adam, and if they were texting their votes (you don't get busy signals that way), they might have helped pull off the win.

Also, Kris would probably have picked up a lot of Danny voters. And of course, there are some who just would never vote for Adam one way or another. Some might be turned off by his probably being gay. Some might just be turned off by Adam's singing style -- like me. But it all adds up.

The one thing that everyone keeps forgetting to mention in this "How/Why Did Kris Win?" conversation is this: Kris is a really talented musician.

Okay, he doesn't have the vocal power that Adam has, but he still has a very good voice. Add that to the fact that he plays both piano and guitar really well AND he's a very talented musical arranger. He's a very well-rounded musician.

I agree with all the other reasons why Adam didn't win - backlash over judges pimping, Kris scooping up the Danny votes, and, yeah, the idiots who wouldn't vote for Adam because of who he is. Does it matter? No. Adam is a great singer and got a ton of exposure on AI and will have a great career.

Maybe, just maybe, the judges have finally learned their lesson about over-pimpage.

Sure, and maybe the tooth fairy is real...