Think about it. Who has been a central figure in nearly every episode? Kathy. Who was the first Survivor named by JP in episode 1? Kathy. Who has the story really been about? Kathy, how she started off as a bit of a beeyotch and has now pretty much redeemed herself.

Just a thought... someone else has probably posted it already, but still, worth thinking about.

- Dark Lotus

• RE: Have we been handed the winner already?,bongbear78, 08:09 AM, 04-24-02
  • RE: Have we been handed the winner already?,MatineeIdol, 11:35 AM, 04-24-02
    • RE: Have we been handed the winner already?,JohnMc, 12:01 PM, 04-24-02
      • good point,Cathy the Canadian, 12:18 PM, 04-24-02
    • RE: Have we been handed the winner already?,westgirl98, 01:35 AM, 05-13-02
• RE: Have we been handed the winner already?,jkokoj, 09:54 AM, 04-24-02
  • RE: Have we been handed the winner already?,DarkLotus, 07:44 AM, 04-25-02
• RE: Have we been handed the winner already?,aymelek, 09:55 AM, 04-24-02
• ABSOLUTLY...,MikeD, 12:33 PM, 04-24-02
  • RE: ABSOLUTLY...,DarkLotus, 12:38 PM, 04-24-02
    • RE: ABSOLUTLY...,MikeD, 12:40 PM, 04-24-02
      • RE: ABSOLUTLY...,DarkLotus, 12:42 PM, 04-24-02
• RE: Have we been handed the winner already?,toddE, 02:10 PM, 04-24-02
• RE: Have we been handed the winner already?,NightScribe, 02:21 PM, 04-24-02
• RE: Have we been handed the winner already?,bigdog, 03:59 PM, 04-24-02
  • RE: Have we been handed the winner already?,BMH, 04:51 PM, 04-24-02
    • RE: Have we been handed the winner already?,Spidey, 07:18 PM, 04-24-02
      • RE: Have we been handed the winner already?,bergdogg, 11:45 PM, 04-24-02
  • RE: Have we been handed the winner already?,Drive My Car, 05:30 PM, 04-24-02
    • John's Letterman interview,bebekid, 11:59 AM, 04-25-02
• RE: Have we been handed the winner already?,lionsroar, 09:08 AM, 04-25-02
  • RE: Have we been handed the winner already?,managerr, 03:09 PM, 04-25-02
• RE: Have we been handed the winner already?,katethegreat, 07:37 PM, 04-25-02
• RE: Have we been handed the winner already?,MatineeIdol, 12:03 PM, 05-10-02
  • RE: Have we been handed the winner already?,JohnMc, 01:02 PM, 05-10-02
    • RE: Have we been handed the winner already?,ivoryElephant, 02:00 PM, 05-10-02
      • RE: Have we been handed the winner already?,Loree, 03:25 PM, 05-10-02
  • RE: Have we been handed the winner already?,volnteer, 04:57 PM, 05-10-02
• RE: Have we been handed the winner already?,leadballoon, 08:09 AM, 05-11-02
• RE: Have we been handed the winner already?,vulcan, 01:08 PM, 05-12-02
  • Sean was NOT...,Rebel Crown, 02:53 PM, 05-12-02

Lotus,

I agree with you completely! http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID2/2493.shtml
in message 7 of the link above, I posted a lengthy reason as to why Kathy and Vecepia could be the final two based on the "Featured/Hidden" pattern that MB has typically used. Rich, Colby and Ethan were all featured at great length throughout their respective series, while Kelly, Tina and Mama Kim were all seen as longshots early on. If Marquesas follows suit, expect to see Kathy (DEFINATELY the most featured character so far) and Vecepia (almost no air time) as the final two.

I have tried to raise this before as a potential spoiler, since Kathy had a huge spike in air time on the merge episode, and has been safe through last weeks vote. The spike COULD mean that Kathy goes this week, but all other spoilers point elsewhere. So why else have this spike? Redemption, perhaps.

I don't know why no one has been paying attention to these theories, as in every other case, a spike in airtime this season has led to a boot the following week (or weeks, in John's case).

So check out that thread above, as I think he theory of Featured vs. Hidden characters holds more water than almost anything we've had yet. (And no, I did not originally post the theory, but rather fleshed it out and updated it a bit...)

Bongbear

A Kathy/Vee final two is not that hard to believe when you look at it.

We can assume that unless something really drastic takes place then Tammy, Robert and Sean will go fairly soon. So that leaves a final five of k/p/n/z/ and v. It would be reasonable to also assume that v could win enough immunity challenges to carry herself through to the end.

Zoe so far has been a "hidden" contestant, but that may change after this week's Tammy/Zoe catfight.

Just to elaborate a little more on Mat's theory, we can easily get to the F6 of k/p/n/s/v/z once we get rid of John's alliance of t/r. Sean is definitely next to go, though he was AWESOME at putting the Moomoo alliance back together (w/ a little help from EBM).

So now we have k/p/n/v/z. Now, as much as we like Neleh and Paschal, would you really like to go against them in the finals??? That's like putting Ethan up against... um, well anyone because they are all so well liked by everyone. Possibility of an all female F4! Since n/p are a tight alliance and NOT an immunity threat, then they can be booted easily at 4th and 5th place. (You can bet there will be a BIG rainstorm for 6 days when those 2 are booted, followed by hail, fire, and brimstone!)

But I digress, that leaves K/V/Z. Can you imagine 3 women doing a pole sitting challenge?! They'll start at the beginning of the day with the tribal walk, and then hang out till late at night. Anyway, with those 3, Kathy has to win immunity and pick who she goes up against. She'll beat either of them in F2, so V or Z would have to win and boot Kathy in order to have a chance to win.

Here's how I see K/V/Z in F2 - best guess on all 3

K/V - Kathy wins 5-2
K/Z - Kathy wins 6-1
V/Z - Zoe wins 4-3

>Now, as much as we
>like Neleh and Paschal, would
>you really like to go
>against them in the finals???

Excellent point! I hadn't really thought about that - the question is, is Kathy thinking that far ahead? She would definately have a better chance of winning against Sean, but is she smart enough and crafty enough to pull it off?

The whole Zoe thing threw her off so much, she was playing with her emotions. Did she learn from that? Time will tell.

i think mark wants us to think that kathy's gonna win but i just dont see that happening. I would however love a V/K final 2 AWESOME!!!!

Kathy was the first to be spoiled as a Survivor 4 contestant. I agree Kathy is been featured in almost every episode. I have not counted but I believe she has not been missed at all. While I am not sure she is our winner at this point I think she may be in the final 2.

I had totally forgotten that one... thanks jkokoj!

Just one more for the list...

- Dark Lotus
"I'm calling Johnny Cochran!" - Sean

I think it could go either way--Kathy being winner or close runner up. But I don't think she's going anywhere anytime soon.

In S1, MB portrayed Rich as storyteller & look what happened. Ugh.
In S2, Colby was the storyteller while Tina kind of sat back in the background with practically no airtime.
In S3--Lex & Ethan were kind of both the main storytellers & Ethan pulled it off.

Hard to call this shot...it kind of goes back & forth. Seems like it's someone's turn to be in the shadows & win though.

I would be shocked and a little disappointed really if anybody who is left other then Kathy wins this game. I dont particularly like her to much - but she is really the only one left (other than maybe Vee) who has played the game honestly and with integrity. I think the jury would probably recognize this as well. It would be a shame to see her go now...

I think at this point, it would be a disappointment to a LOT of people if she didn't at least make the final two. We're at a point now where she's the only "star" of the show. Everyone else (except maybe Sean) has been built up later in the run, while Kathy has been front and center the whole time. Voting her out now is like David Duchovny leaving the X-Files. Sure there might be a perfectly good reason for it, but it's not gonna piss the fans off any less.

- Dark Lotus

ya had to make that x-files comment - didnt ya? hee, hee

sorry... I'm still bitter. lol

- Dark Lotus

Oddly enough, I hope we have been handed the winner. I've read many times the final two are a brunette man and a brunette woman, but hair color is iffy. Still, I imagine the man might be Sean, as he has also had a consistently high profile. Otherwise, he may be the "Lex" (or even Susan or Keith) who always gets a lot of airtime, isn't portrayed in an especially positive way, and almost but doesn't quite make it.

I think Kathy would win final two against anyone except perhaps Neleh or Tammy, neither of whom seems likely to be final 2 at this point.

DL,
I must say that this very idea has been nagging me since the merger. I think in terms of editing, that Kathy is indeed the main character of S4, temporarily taking a back seat while Rob and john's storys got told, then coming back to take charge of the end game.

Oh, what the hell, I'm going to just say it: Kathy has been edited as a Survivor already. She survived her tribe's initial reaction to her, and turned things around for herself by mellowing out. She survived the swap and became the leader of Maraamu, never letting her plentiful emotions get in the way of getting the job done. She's a powerhouse in the challenges (when she's not in charge). Who would have guessed that? Then she survived the merger episode, won immunity, and was finally able to get in with a majority of voters. It's been an uphill battle for Kathy since the day she arrived on the island, but she's been playing the game the whole time. I respect that. I think her story is fascinating and it would be anticlimactic at this point to have her leave in the middle of the game. No, I suspect she'll be one of our final two, if not the winner.

Great thread Lotus. It deserves serious debate and consideration.

I also agree. I always thought that she would go far, but the other night I was watching letterman and John was on. They talked about Kathy peeing on John's hand and Dave asked "Wouldn't it be funny if she won?" The look on John's face and tone of his voice was "wouldn't that be great" in a "I'm so pissed of that she did win" tone. His reaction was nothing like you would think it would be if it wasn't true. He just seemed pissed, like it was true.

I agree with all u guyz..but i seriously believe Kathy has been very lucky in this game..if Rotu had not won so many challenges in the beginning Kathy mist likey would have been voted out..so it hink she has played the game..but it was not all strategy it was luck..if Rotu had lost a challenge..Kathy would have been gone long ago..

>but it was not all
>strategy it was luck..if Rotu
>had lost a challenge..Kathy would
>have been gone long ago..
>

There is a tremendous amount of luck in this game, but without some sharp playing, luck will never be enough.

S1's Rich got lucky asinine Dr. Sean decided to vote alphabetically. That was not Rich's game mastery that got Jenna the boot instead of him. Dr. Sean unwittingly paved his way. What a dork.

S2's Ogakor got lucky when Mike fell into the fire and Kimmi blabbed about Jeff having a vote. And Tina got lucky Colby was such a moron and picked his friend over $1m. (Didn't Tina say she would have taken Keith into F2? What a dork.)

And Kathy benefitted by MooMoo's total inability to work as a team or compete competently in anything. But she won the IC when she needed to, and was, IMO, primarily responsible for John's overthrow. She has played well, adapted as needed and if she wins, she will deserve it.

Sometimes, it is better to be lucky than good!!

Kathy has been very lucky, as has Neleh, Pappy, Vee and Sean. Get the picture.

BUD SELIG SUCKS!!!! SAVE THE TWINS!!!

I don't have time to look right now, but maybe someone else wants to. Does CBS have John's Letterman interview available online? I know they offered them before. Maybe we can get a handle on John's exact words.

There is a streaming video clip of Letterman asking John about the "peeing on his hand incident". Strangely enough (not really) they cut it off right before Letterman asked John if the person who peed on his hand was still on the island. I just happened to see this the other night; I don't usually stay up that late or watch Dave. Anyway, John's face fell and he said "yes, she's still there". And then of course Dave said wouldn't it be something if she was the one who won the million.

I took this as a good clue that Kathy makes final 2. Didn't someone infer from John's exit interviews that he stirs things up at the final TC? If John had issues with Kathy, they wouldn't have time to patch things up if she were one of the final 2. And of course he would assume that she had alot to do with his demise (and he would be correct).

I also am hoping for a Kathy win. It would be a very satisfying conclusion. And I think the story MB is telling, and the way she is being edited is good proof she makes it a long way in!

bebe

Nothing in the recap episode hit me as odd except for one thing. When Kathy was voting out Gina she said "I'll take you to Alaska and help you start your restaurant", but what was odd was that it sounded edited, like she had actually said "When/or if I win the million, I'll take you to Alaska and....". Why would they cut that unless she actually did win the million...or actually, why would they show that at all? Just found it telling.

I thought that too, but then again, Kathy is a real estate agent so if Gina were looking to buy a restaurant, so maybe she would be able to provide some help for someone looking to buy a restaurant? Plus she's a go-getter and genuinely seems like she wants to help everyone so I can see her saying something like that...

I agree - after the recap episode, I see Kathy as the lead storyline, I think she is definately final two. However, I believe that her partner there is Zoe. This is because of the fact that they hid Zoe's vote for John, in the recap, and didn't show how it came about, hiding a key alliance, in my opinion.

LAST EDITED ON 05-10-02 AT 12:26 PM (EST)

I am bumping this thread back to the top because of two things that I noticed last night -

First of all, you really have to wonder with all the clips and soundbites that MB surely has why he chooses to show the ones he does? Last night we had TWO stand-out bits of conversation between Kathy and her son.

First of all they showed Kathy asking her son about money. Like "how's the money holding up? You have enough?" I know that this was just a mom showing concern for her son YET we were purposely shown this.

Second we had a further Kathy redemption when she and her son were discussing strategy he tells her something like he "doesn't like that side of her and she usually doesn't act like that".

I know a lot of people on this board are rooting for a Kathy win (including myself) but on the CBS Survivor poll page Pappy is winning both the popularity contest (around 90% approval vs. Kathy's approximate 70% approval) and the Sole Survivor Winner Poll (39% vs. 20%).

Any thoughts?

Any thoughts?

I think it's interesting that the CBS website is suddenly current and not 2 weeks behind. Wonder if that's direction or misdirection...

This is what I have been saying ever since John got the boot.
I made a spoiler thread about it also.

Kathy is the main character and right now I can only see her and paschal having any chance of winning this game.

By voting for sean last night, rob showed us that 1.he new he was going 2.in going he took it out on sean, rather than kathy or neleh 3. he also voted vecepia the TC before

Tammy did the samebasically.

The rotu 4 jury will NOT vote Sean or Vee to win, unless they are the final 2.

They are also not to fond of Neleh's UTR attitude or her annoying youthful exhuberance.

Whoever Kathy and paschal face in final 2, they will beat them

if its kathy and paschal in final two then it will be close. That is why I think kathy goes with s/v

IMO kathy wins, hands down

Hail Kathy! the Sole survivor!

On The Early Show The General talked about how much he liked Sean. He said that Sean and Rob and himself spent many nights talking about New York and food and they bonded without talking strategy. We never saw any of this. I didn't know if Rob and Sean ever talked to The General. So we can't assume that Robert would not vote for Sean if he was in the final 2. But the fact that he mentioned Sean alot makes me think that Sean was never in the F2 and it didn't come into play if he voted for him or not. I am always more interested in who they don't mention on their interviews. I think they stay away from talking about the winner when possible so as not to slip up and give something away.

I agree.
Also, did anyone notice that during the airing of S3, Kathy was the first survivor profiled by Survivorfever; when they began posting information as PR for S4.
Did anyone else see this?
D

It was mentioned that religion plays a big part in this installment of Survivor. Of the five that are left only Kathy has not been shown to have a higher power belief. Either MB is hiding it or she doesn't show it as much as the others. Of the four (P/N/S/V), I think P/V are more religious. I'm not saying that N/S are not just that N/S seem to think about being religious whereas P/V act religious. Not that they walk around in robes but not much has been shown that they have demonstrated ill feeling towards another survivor. Pashcal has been show in good light. Vee has been shown praising everything under the sun. When Sean was complaining, I think Vee was being quiet or noding not in agreement but rather to show acknowledgement of what Sean was saying.
I am toying with a few theorys and thought I'd test the waters. Any thoughts?

My question to this thread is what of the spoiler that has Sean going from 4th-6th, and also what of the spoiler wher in bios the person who has the sixth most words in their bios is the winner neleh is that one and her still being around make her fit the bill
Sorry for my weird ramblings poor grammer and disjointed thoughts but hey im thinkin and typin at the same time and thats not a good combination.

The roach is back bashers bash away

Sean was not rumored to go, but to BE there during the "visit from loved ones" episode. I don't know anything about the "six-letters of Neleh's bio" rumor.

And a word of friendly advice to you, Vulcan: If you want to live long and prosper at this site, you'd be better off if you thought first, THEN posted. ;) It's best when ALL of us use our brains to mind-meld with MB. It's makes the spoiling easier and the bashing better!