Singer,
I have to disagree with you in regards to Lenny. In my opinion, Lenny used cultural differences as a crutch to avoid contributing to a task that was clearly out of his comfort level. Everyone else in his team was also out of their element on this task, yet they tried and put some effort into it. Lenny became dead weight on this entire task. Bill was right to call him out on that. Did it come across as culturally insensitive? Yes! But, I think Bill raised a legitimate point and in my opinion Lenny should have been fired.

LAST EDITED ON 04-10-06 AT 11:48 AM (EST)

>Singer,
>I have to disagree with you
>in regards to Lenny. In
>my opinion, Lenny used cultural
>differences as a crutch to
>avoid contributing to a task
>that was clearly out of
>his comfort level. Everyone else
>in his team was also
>out of their element on
>this task, yet they tried
>and put some effort into
>it. Lenny became dead weight
>on this entire task. Bill
>was right to call him
>out on that. Did it
>come across as culturally insensitive?
>Yes! But, I think Bill
>raised a legitimate point and
>in my opinion Lenny should
>have been fired.

Hey, Josh, and long time no hear from!

I see what you mean, but some people believe that the jingle writing process did put Lenny at an unfair advantage, regardless of whether he was using the language barrier as a crutch.

I am not convinced that he did not try to help the team. (The editors provided footage of some of his feckless efforts.) I am convinced that Lenny's efforts were not useful to the team. (They rejected his idea for a jingle using chicken sounds.)

Maybe he was discouraged by his shortcomings in this task. Who knows? But I get the impression that he really tried to help, and that by his own estimation, his efforts were "crap."

I did not like Bill's smarmy comment, and I agree completely with you that the point could have been made in a less unsensitive way. Where does Boyfriend Bill get off making judgements about a person's language abilities?

I am coming to a different view on this entire task, at least as of this morning. Since the playing field was not completely level for both teams, I am prone to agree with another poster who stated that no one should have been fired on this task.

I guess you know by now that I am always thinking about systems of rules and how they apply in game theoretic situations. That is why I have this position. Bill's smarmy attitude (my subjective belief) doesn't really factor into this.

--Singer

"The non-Zionists have not had the luxury of being immune from 2 boardrooms."

Huh?

There is a HUGE part of this discussion that everyone is overlooking!

Did anyone ever consider that Lee taking time off for the Jewish holidays is a DISADVANTAGE for him. This is a JOB INTERVIEW, and Lee missed out on two opportunities to prove himself. Everyone is just focusing on the fact that he got two free passes and therefore didn't get fired those weeks, but the reality is, they are competing for a job, and the best candidates should be proving their attributes on a weekly basis. Lee missed two opportunities to do this, and in this competitive job contest, he may suffer as result.

Don't think of it as free chances of not making mistakes, but instead blown opportunities to show his strengths.

If they would have done this even one day before, Lee could have been there for the "working" portion of the task. You cannot blame Lee. They work on a task for two days and the primary one of those days "HAS" to be on Yom Kippur? Please. It was all to set up this sort of situation and conflict. And that is heinous.

The only thing your argument says to me is that Gold Rush doesn't know how to delegate.

The reason the task was lost was because the lyrics missed key wording necessary to promote the product and the music missed the mark. Neither of these elements would have changed had Lee been there.

Gold Rush couldn't do something as basic as show up to a meeting on time. So the executives were already a little po'ed with them anyway. Lee being there would not have changed this fact either.

Lee missing the task was not the reason they lost. So there was no reason he should have been brought into the boardroom.

Donald didn't think that Lenny's inability to contribute was a reason to be fired therefore Lee's inability to contribute couldn't be used as a reason to be fired.

The PM okayed the decisions so the PM got fired.

LAST EDITED ON 04-06-06 AT 08:17 PM (EST)

But Lenny would have lied had he taken the day off, since he obviously isn't as religious as Lee.
Firing Lee for not being there on Yom Kippur is the same as fire anyone for any belief.

"The non-Zionists have not had the luxury of being immune from 2 boardrooms."

Interesting choice of words there. I hope you're not one of those who likes to say "Im not anti-semitic, Im just anti-Zionist" But Ill assume it was just a slip.

he actually said that?

I will give you scenarios of what I think happened (since I have been through this many times before).

Scenario 1 - Pro-Lee:
Lee looks at filming schedule, and asks producer A. "The Jewish high holidays are during filming. I will not work those days. Will this be a problem?"
Producer A: "Oh, that won't be a problem, dont worry"
Lee thinks that this means that the wont do tasks on those days or some equitable solution will be made.
Producr A thinks this means some combination of "It wont be a big deal", "Lee will work something out when the time comes", "Lee will just need an hour off to go to synagogue and will still be able to participate in the tasks", "Well, the other contestants will just have to deal with it" or "Lee is just asking, but if its comes down to a choice of being off the show, he'll cave."
Producer A then sits on the information as if nothing happened or forgets about it. Then the day comes and Lee says "OK, I won't be here today like I said." Producer B says "What are you talking about?" Lee says "I told Producer A a month ago about this." Producer B "First I heard of it, let me huddle with the other producers." (After huddle), um, OK, just go, and we wont count it against you. Lee tells the other contestants, and, well, you see what happened.

Scenario 2 - Anti-Lee
Lee sees the production schedule and says to himself "Uh-oh, they're filming during the high holidays. I dont want to blow this. If I start making a fuss, they'll can me. Ill just keep it to myself and if I manage to survive until then, I'll figure out what to do at that point." Or he just waits until it is too late to replace him. And you see what happened when he does tell the other contestants.

I have to think the earlier scenario is true simply because it involved 2 candidates, and therefore likely one of them spoke up beforehand.

I was one of the first to say that he should have brought back Charmaine but that would have been A HARD THING to do since she worked so hard. Tough call.

Maybe it's true....Lee should have been called back for TWICE not being there for his team. So Lenny was a "sabra"?! That's my name. Now I love Lenny! I didn't know he was in the Israeli army. Cool.

(He IS sort of funny and goofy, my favorite type of guy. I just don't know if I could trust him further than I could throw him.)

To not bring someone back into the boardroom because they worked haard is a nice thought. But most of the contestants work hard. This isn't about who works the hardest it is about who should get the job.

Yes hard working is a good quality but you also have to win challenges and when your choices cause a loss for your team you should expect to be sent to the boardroom.

The executives stated that the lyrics didn't say certain things that they wanted to hear. Gold Rush showed up late for a meeting. Both of these things were Charmaines mistakes. The flip side of the coin is that the PM had final approval of everything.

The right man was fired.

I disagree on two points:
1. Charmaine was not the only one doing the lyrics and Bryce thought the lyrics were good. That was his call.

2. They showed Charmaine telling Bryce when the meeting was and that they needed to leave in 5 or 10 minutes. Bryce was totally at fault for being late not Charmaine. He put her in charge of making the appointment but he is supposed to get them there on time.

Yup! I agree completelly with this statement. Leslie and Charmaine worked on the lyrics. Why should Charmaine be brought back into the boardroom, but not Leslie? In fact, I don't think either one of them should be held responsible for the loss. Because at least they tried and no one else in the team had any better ideas.

And thank you for pointing out the fact that Charmaine did notify the team about the time of the appointment. I thought I had seen something to that effect, but I wasn't sure. I liked Bryce's leadership style but arriving late to the appointment falls on the PM. This is the reason why Brian from last season got fired.

he wasn't in the israeli army.

LAST EDITED ON 04-06-06 AT 08:18 PM (EST)

Wow.
First, Lenny did NOT serve in the Israeli army, and he was completely off with that comment he made back then about the Israeli army. In the Israeli army they do fight during Holidays, but only because people's lives depend on it. If we didn't have soldiers watching the boarder on Holidays, terrorist might sneak in and that can't be good.

Judaism DEMANDS that you act to save lives at any time, even on Yom Kippur. This isn't a life saving act, this is a TV show.
George wasn't there for the Jewish Holidays either, should he have been fired?

In case you don't know, in Yom Kippur Jews aren't only forbidden to work, they also can't drive, can't use electricity and such, but more importantly, they don't eat or drink on that day.

In Israel we all get the holidays off, and on Yom kippur you don't see a single car on the street. Luckily, we don't have to face problams like your comments because of that.
Firing Lee on this task would be very wrong, it's like firing anyone for believing in God, since this is what Lee believes that god demands him to do on that day. And he believes in that whether you agree or not.

I don't know if Lee is what Donald Trump looks for, I actually happen to not-think he's a big catch. But Trump will never find out if he fires him because of his religious beliefs.
I find your comments very ignorant and irrelevant.

LAST EDITED ON 04-06-06 AT 10:03 PM (EST)

Hi dafnaf and welcome! ...or should I say, Shalom!

I appreciate you adding your comments throughout the thread and your perspective.

As I've said before on these boards, I was raised in a community with a large population of Orthodox Jews. I am also married to a Jewish man (not a very religious one, but Jewish nonetheless), so I can appreciate the tradition and culture of the religion.

I never imagined that people would not understand just how much this holiday means. I suppose it is because they have no experience with it whatsoever. The very definition of ignorance.

I think people also fail to realize that Lenny and Lee (and Dan) are from different sects. They don't all practice their religion the same way because of how and where they were raised. We are seeing a lot of vast generalizations from folks not realizing Judaism is not just one sect.

Can we compare this holiday to Christmas? No, not directly, but we can make the comparison of how many different sects of Christianity celebrate the holiday differently. Do some Christians work on Christmas? Sure they do. Does that mean all Christians should work on Christmas? Of course not! That would be ridiculous.

Yeah, maybe the Jehovah Witnesses are willing to work that day, but do you think the Roman Catholics would. I don't think so. Not the very devout ones anyway. ...and they would never expect to be fired over it.

Anyway, I wanted to say, I'm glad you came along with your perspective and enjoyed reading your comments.

Not more bemoaning over people not realizing how important Yom Kippur is... AGAIN, I never said Lee SHOULDNT have taken it off. Of course he should take it off, and do whatever his faith requires him to do.
What I am saying is there should be a consequence for him not being around to help his team, which then LOST both tasks.
You can theorize whatever you want about how Lee being there wouldn't have won the task. That doesn't change the fact that we will never KNOW for sure one way or the other. Maybe Lee catches the missing lyrics? Maybe Bryce puts him in charge of the music instead of Tarek? Who knows?
Any employer would tell you the most important thing about an employee is them SHOWING up to do their job. You would take an employee who makes the occasional mistake over an employee who doesn't show up any day of the week.
Did Bryce deserve to be fired? Sure, he okayed Charmaine's and Tarek's decisions and deserves most the blame for the team being late to the meeting with the execs.
But I just have a hard time with firing people who were actually there and worked when there is someone who twice now hasn't even been around. ONCE, I had no problem with, but TWICE? If Randall had missed two tasks due to his grandma's passing, I would've thought that was unfair as well.
I do agree that there is an argument for Lee being at a disadvantage as well for missing those tasks. It depends ultimately on how strong of a candidate he is. We will see.
But stop with the "you don't realize how important Yom Kippur is." If Lee is devout, then he SHOULD observe the holiday. I'm not blaming him, just pointing out there should be consequences for his action.

One name to remember:

Sandy Koufax!!

LAST EDITED ON 04-07-06 AT 10:58 AM (EST)

I find it disturbing at the number of posts I've seen that for one reason or another claim that these Jewish holidays is any more important than Christmas.

1. Does the presumed "importance" of a religious holiday really have weight with whether or not you can take the day off?

2. How is this "importance" measured? I keep on hearing "they don't use electricty, etc". Does that mean that the more personal sacrifices one makes, the more important the holiday gets?

I'm sure many Jewish people would be offended if Christians claimed some of their holidays are more important to them than what the Jewish ones are to them.

But regardless, correct me if I'm wrong, but does the law actually specify all religious holidays, or just certain ones? I think the Ash Wednesday/Easter comparison is totally valid then. Why not throw in Ukrainian Easter too?

There is no easy answer for Lee and the situation. While you can't actually definitely say that he was the the reason why they lost the task, you can however definitely say that he contributed nothing to help them win.

"Important" was not an accurate or precise word to use here. However the religious restrictions are different and much more strict for Yom Kippur than Christmas, and that is the real point. IF you want to compare it, tThink of the Christian who refused to run on Sunday in the Olympics in Chariots of Fire.

What I like about this discussion is that it allows participants to explore the beauty and complexities of different cultural practices.

I hope that people will abstain from making morally-loaded comments about which practices are more justifiable than others.

I also hope that people will understand that in the American workplace, there are dispensations if people of different faiths do not come to work for cultural reasons.

I have never heard of a job interview situation where a person was disqualified for making a similar decision. From what I've seen, interviewers simply schedule around the religious observation.

I wish that this had happened in this game situation. I say this, because once you factor emotions out of all responses, it is impossible to know if the uneven number of players on the team caused the team loss. (In rational choice decision-making, two heads are usually better than one.)

An argument can be made for the idea that the entire game is forever skewed because of what happened here. Going forward, it will be hard to know if any outcome would be fair this season, because some teams benefitted repeatedly from numbers-based advantages during the brainstorming and decision-making process during this challenge and others.

Any thoughts on this?

--Singer

LAST EDITED ON 04-08-06 AT 04:57 PM (EST)

No one (not me, at least) claimed that Yom Kippur is more important than Christmas. I personally don't observe any of these holidays. However, I did point out that Yom Kippur is very Different from Christmas. Chrismas is a very happy holiday, you celebrate on that day. On Yom Kippur you're not allowed to be happy, you're supposed to fast and pray to god all day long.
People compared Chrismas to Yom kippur, saying that if there is a deal to make on Christmas, people do it. So they're saying that Lee didn't have to go. What they don't realize, is that on Yom kippur you're not allowed to make a phone, you're not allowed to make any business, you're not allowed to drive a car and all you do is go to the temple and pray to god.

Of course Chrismas is very important, there's no doubt about that, but comparing it to Yom kippur (and I'm talking about the holidays' purpose and rules) is completely irrelevant.

Some posts here did show me that people don't understand the significance of Yom Kippur to Jewish people. Maybe your posts didn't, but others said things like 'if he was given money, I'm sure he would've stayed' and 'Lenny could go too but he didn't'.
I think that it will eventually go down to the best man winning, and if along the way people are getting fired, it means that they weren't good enough. Trump obviously didn't want Bryce to be the apprentice because of wrong judgments he made. He wasn't good enough for Trump whether you (and I, for that matter) like it or not.
I also think that Lee isn't a very good contestant, I'm almost sure he wouldn't make it to the final two. But we'll have to find out the right way, because it would be wrong to fire him over something that he had no other choice but to do.
And say he was good- say we thought that he did a really good job so far, and we believed he should win and be the next apprentice. Wouldn't it make you really angry if he got fired because he had to miss a certain task (or two)?
About Randall, I thought he was really good throughout, and there's no doubt he shouldn't have been fired for the task he missed, even if there had been two.
I'm sure it pisses off the other contesters, but like Trump says (and I don't say that very often), this is life. For one person a family member dies, and for the other a task is schedualed on yom kippur.
It doesn't really matter if Lee goes first or last, as long as he goes. And I'm pretty sure he will, but for a better reason than this.

Tagging on:

Lee took a chance by taking the day off.

I just went through this: I am a professional interviewer in the law area.

I scheduled appointments only to have one call saying it was a religious holiday, she is Jewish. I said ok, I can reschedule you for Sat. ONLY to be told that is her Sabbath (Sabbath is probally the wrong word but it is their religious day as Sun is for Chrisians) and can't interview then either.

I didn't bother to try any further to reschedule her.

By the ad she knew that there was a deadline for inerviews. Happens both days were not good for her.

I feel Lee knew this (and as did the Lady to applied and felt she should have special treatment)would come up and knew ahead of time that he would be fine and would not be fired (as did the Lady, she felt Ishould reschedule MY time to accomafate her schedule-REAL world does not work this way whereas UNreality TV does).

The shows interview process is NOT based on just one or even two (as was in my case) day/s but weeks and it will be up to Lee to prove himself worthy of being in the final two.

As for the commnts about which religious holiday is more important....Well, for the Catholics I would think Good Friday is. Where betweent the hours of 12-3 pm they are to be quiet and observe the time Jesus died on the cross. Should they get the day off as a religious holiday or atleast those hours?

My question is:

Just how many different religious holidays must a business put up with?

Each different religion has holidays that are important to the repsective religion?

Where/when do we say enough is enough?

LAST EDITED ON 04-09-06 AT 01:20 PM (EST)

On Shabbat religious orthodox Jewish people are not allowed to work, use electricity etc.
People in Israel who work in governmental establishments are not allowed to work on Shabbat. Most people don't work on Shabbat (or any Jewish holiday) and only a few workplaces can force someone to work on Shabbat (and obviously religious people don't work there).
So this is not a problem where I live.

I really don't know how religious people get along in their workplaces anywhere out of Israel. I can see how problematic it is for both the employers and the Jewish employees.
My personal opinion is that it is wrong to reject someone for not being able to work on specific days, because he might have been the most suitable man for the job, so it could have been a loss for the both of you. And this an extremely problematic area, where the person has no other choice but to keep the shabbat and observe the holidays, and it certainly isn't fair that he isn't given a chance just because he sticks to his beliefs.

Like I said in a different post, a jewish friend of mine who lives in the US- who is NOT religious- never takes any Jewish holidays off. His employers allow him to take those days off, but he doesn't want the other employees to bear grudges against him. Imagine a situation when you live in country that isn't supposed to have any ethnical basis (like the US), but the only holidays you and the rest of the country take off are the Jewish Holidays. Say you can't go home to be with your family for christmas. Instead you take a day off like everybody else at, say, Rosh Hashana. if in addition to that you would want to be home for christmas, your employers and co-workers Would not let you go. Would it be fair in your opinion?

One of the differences between the Jewish Holidays and the christian ones is that on the Jewish Holidays you believe you're not allowed to work - by god.

About Lee, I really don't know what he thought, I'm not sure that he just knew that everything will be fine and he wouldn't get fired because of yom kippur, and I really believe he shouldn't worry about that. Luckily I never had to worry about such a problem.

I hope you get my point.

>LAST EDITED ON 04-09-06
>AT 01:20 PM (EST)
>
>
>
>On Shabbat religious orthodox Jewish people
>are not allowed to work,
>use electricity etc.
>People in Israel who work in
>governmental establishments are not allowed
>to work on Shabbat. Most
>people don't work on Shabbat
>(or any Jewish holiday) and
>only a few workplaces can
>force someone to work on
>Shabbat (and obviously religious people
>don't work there).
>So this is not a problem
>where I live.
>
>I really don't know how religious
>people get along in their
>workplaces anywhere out of Israel.
>I can see how problematic
>it is for both the
>employers and the Jewish employees.
>
>My personal opinion is that it
>is wrong to reject someone
>for not being able to
>work on specific days, because
>he might have been the
>most suitable man for the
>job, so it could have
>been a loss for the
>both of you. And this
>an extremely problematic area, where
>the person has no other
>choice but to keep the
>shabbat and observe the holidays,
>and it certainly isn't fair
>that he isn't given a
>chance just because he sticks
>to his beliefs.
>
>Like I said in a different
>post, a jewish friend of
>mine who lives in the
>US- who is NOT religious-
>never takes any Jewish holidays
>off. His employers allow him
>to take those days off,
>but he doesn't want the
>other employees to bear grudges
>against him. Imagine a situation
>when you live in country
>that isn't supposed to have
>any ethnical basis (like the
>US), but the only holidays
>you and the rest of
>the country take off are
>the Jewish Holidays. Say you
>can't go home to be
>with your family for christmas.
>Instead you take a day
>off like everybody else at,
>say, Rosh Hashana. if in
>addition to that you would
>want to be home for
>christmas, your employers and co-workers
>Would not let you go.
>Would it be fair in
>your opinion?
>
>One of the differences between the
>Jewish Holidays and the christian
>ones is that on the
>Jewish Holidays you believe you're
>not allowed to work -
>by god.
>
>About Lee, I really don't know
>what he thought, I'm not
>sure that he just knew
>that everything will be fine
>and he wouldn't get fired
>because of yom kippur, and
>I really believe he shouldn't
>worry about that. Luckily I
>never had to worry about
>such a problem.
>
>I hope you get my point.
>

As for my loss that I might ahve missed out on an employee...oh well....I will NOT ever rechedule MY time because she couldn't make either of the TWO scheduled interviews (One being on a Fri and the other being the next day on a Sat)cause of religious days. Because of one person I should have exended MY scheduled time to accomadate this Lady? NO and I never would. She knew by the ad what the days were for interviews so why call and complain she can't attend either of the interviews due to religious days?

That is what I am tired of. People using any excuse to do things on their schedule not the interviewers etc.

I respect people who are into their religion BUT I also wish they would have respect for others. Seems they feel they can do what they wish all in the name of a religion and a god telling them to do so.

As I stated though, Lee has plenty of time to prove he deserves to be in the final two and be picked as the newest apprentice.

My question is this though: Was BOTH days he took off told to him by God to do so? The days were far enough apart that no way could they be this same holiday?

LAST EDITED ON 04-10-06 AT 08:13 AM (EST)

>As for my loss that I
>might ahve missed out on
>an employee...oh well....I will NOT
>ever rechedule MY time because
>she couldn't make either of
>the TWO scheduled interviews (One
>being on a Fri and
>the other being the next
>day on a Sat)cause of
>religious days. Because of
>one person I should have
>exended MY scheduled time to
>accomadate this Lady? NO
>and I never would.
>She knew by the ad
>what the days were for
>interviews so why call and
>complain she can't attend either
>of the interviews due to
>religious days?

If she knew what the dates were and she still applied, I guess she shouldn't have had. Again, I'm glad I don't have to face this kind of problam, because where I live no one will ever schedual an appointment on Yom Kippur.

>That is what I am tired
>of. People using any
>excuse to do things on
>their schedule not the interviewers
>etc.

These aren't excuses, this is the ABC of the Jewish religion. Religious people think it's a sin not to keep Shabbat or not to observe Yom Kippur.

>I respect people who are into
>their religion BUT I also
>wish they would have respect
>for others. Seems they
>feel they can do what
>they wish all in the
>name of a religion and
>a god telling them to
>do so.

you say they can do "what they wish", but it isn't really what they wish, they believe god wishes them to do so.

>As I stated though, Lee has
>plenty of time to prove
>he deserves to be in
>the final two and be
>picked as the newest apprentice.

I agree. Lee doesn't seem to fit. But this was not a good reason to throw him out. he should get fired when he does an error.

>My question is this though:
>Was BOTH days he took
>off told to him by
>God to do so?
> The days were
>far enough apart that no
>way could they be this
>same holiday?

Here's some information you might not know:
There is a period of time at the beginning of the Jewish year that we call "the holidays". In a one month period Jews have five different holidays, in four of which the Jews aren't allowed to use electricty or transportation and they're not allowed to work. Those holidays are: Rosh hashana, Gedalia fast, Yom Kippur, Succot and Simchat Torrah.
Rosh Hashana, Yom kippur and the ten days between them are called "the horrible days" or "ten days of Repentance", in which jews pray to god intensively. Those two holidays are the most important two holidays in the Jewish calander. These are the two Holidays the Lee was observing. The belief is that on Rosh Hashana the sky is open to prayers, and it closes in the end of Yom Kippur. That's pretty much it.

Too long to quote but thanks for the info on the two seperate days.

And yes, I have seen people use religion to get out of things.

Yes, you are lucky that people know what holidays not to schedule things on BUT I don't have the time to figure what days are good for each religion...Jewish people aren't the only ones that have religious days off per god's words. And imho not one religious holiday is more important than the other. As for the two days of interview they were back to back-a Fri and Sat so by your explanation this lady could have made one of them.

Lee will now be able though to show what he is made of. IF he was smart he would become the next product manager (And no I ahve not yet watched last nights 2 hour show-have it taped).

Be glad that the lady didn't hit you with a EEOC suit in violation of her religious rights! She wasn't looking for you to accomodate her because she had a beauty appointment or a wedding. IT WAS DUE TO RELIGIOUS REASONS!! Again, unless it was stated that Saturdays would be needed to work, you really were obligated to accomodate her. My husband was scheduled to work for the Census Bureau & was scheduled to work during the holiday time of Passover, during the time which is like the Sabbath. He was also scheduled to meet at a non kosher restaurant. Both of those actions were violations against his religious beliefs (we are very orthodox & do not even walk into a non kosher establishment). The Census office threatened to release him. My husband filed a compliant with the EEOC (federal office that protects civil rights in the workplace) & they were ready to bring charges against the Census bureau for violating my husband's rights, unless the Bureau reassigned my husband to the same level position after the holidays & didn't obligate him to attend the meetings in the restaurant (he waited outside & was briefed afterwards). So, you see, the real world does work around those whose religious beliefs conflict with productivity, by working around them, not firing them. In all fairness & reality (excuse the meanted pun), Trump should not have filmed during the High Holidays, not only to accomodate Lee, but all the other crew members. And regarding everone's problems "Well, no one takes off for Christmas or Easter": My friend was a nurse in Beth Israel Hospital. On Christmas Eve, New Year's Eve, Palm Sunday & Easter Sunday (unless it conflicted with Passover), my friend worked their shifts, & they in turn worked her shifts for her holidays. No on thought it unfair. In the public schools, they are closed in New York during Rosh HaShona & Yom Kippur; for all the other holidays the teachers & other workers have the option of either taking the day off without penalization or without pay, or to take what is called a "Religious Observance Day," which means that they get half pay & the other half goes to pay for a substitute. This is for Jehovah's Witnesses, Muslaims, Buddaists, Hindu's & anyone else that have religous conflicts during working hours. So this is what happens in the "real world": you learn to play nicely in the sandbox & learn to respect everyone elses beliefs even when it's not your own.

I agree with all you said,
and Happy Passover!

First it was interviews I was conducting (The job does not require one to work Sat)...on a Fri and Sat and she couldn't make either one....she can try and sue but she would ahve to prove both days were religious ones and prove god told her to take them off.

Second, the ad ran for a full two weeks and she calls at the last minute stating she wishes to be interviewed but then proceedes to state what days she can be interviewed.....sorry this is MY shcedule not hers. Don't give a rats butt what her excuses are.

Per anothers explanation, a very detail one, the religious holidays that god tells the Jewish people to take off are not back to back, hence she could ahve made a Fri appt to be interviewed.

Reasoning for a Sat interview time was for those people who work during the week and wouldn't be able to get off.

Haven't watched last nights shows yet....got them taped and hopefully Lee took the intiative to be the PM. He does seem like a nice guy, what little I've seen of him...even when he is present he seems to fade into the backround til the *Judges* appear.

you're saying she has to prove that God told her to take the holidays off?

Well, I sure wouldn't want to work for you.

You might not want to work for the previous poster -- but he/she was within his/her rights, because you do not have to accomodate an individual's religious beliefs during interview scheduling.

Whether you should do so is a different matter that does not relate to The Apprentice, and so further discussion of it should be limited to the Off-Topic Board. Thank you.

Lee took a chance by taking
the day off.

Not by New York City standards, he didn't. And Trump's business is based in New York City.

I am not Jewish. I was born and raised in New York City, and went to New York City public schools. The schools are open on the Jewish holidays, but so many teachers and so many students are taking off that no new material gets covered during these days. The kids that do show up basically have a free study day.

Trump runs a building and real estate empire in New York City, and that is an industry which has a high percentage of Jews. Trump well knows, and has known for years, that you can not seriously expect a person of the Jewish faith to work those days. And since a very high percentage of Trump's business acquaintances and friends are Jewish, you can be certain he wouldn't ask them to do so. In New York, it simply is Not Done. End of story.

When Lee took off the first time, Trump explained to his team that he would not hold it against him because "that's life". And indeed, in New York City, especially in an industry like real estate, that IS life. And anyone who works for Trump had better get the picture, fast.

>
>Lee took a chance by taking
>
>the day off.
>
>Not by New York City standards,
>he didn't. And Trump's
>business is based in New
>York City.
>
>I am not Jewish. I
>was born and raised in
>New York City, and went
>to New York City public
>schools. The schools are
>open on the Jewish holidays,
>but so many teachers and
>so many students are taking
>off that no new material
>gets covered during these days.
> The kids that do
>show up basically have a
>free study day.
>
>Trump runs a building and real
>estate empire in New York
>City, and that is an
>industry which has a high
>percentage of Jews. Trump well
>knows, and has known for
>years, that you can not
>seriously expect a person of
>the Jewish faith to work
>those days. And since
>a very high percentage of
>Trump's business acquaintances and friends
>are Jewish, you can be
>certain he wouldn't ask them
>to do so. In
>New York, it simply is
>Not Done. End of
>story.
>
>When Lee took off the first
>time, Trump explained to his
>team that he would not
>hold it against him because
>"that's life". And indeed,
>in New York City, especially
>in an industry like real
>estate, that IS life.
>And anyone who works for
>Trump had better get the
>picture, fast.

IF by NY standards he didn't take a chance by attending his religious services and Trump feels the way he does about the situation.........

Then why not wait three weeks to begin taping?

I am sure by NT standards Trump KNEW there were important Jewish religious days upcoming during taping.

I am sure there are crew members of the show who are also Jewish, would love to know if they got those days off also.

In regards to your situation, yes, you should have accomdated her due to her religious restraints, unless the job entailed working on the Sabbath (btw, that is the correct english wording for it.). After all, all universities that have exams scheduled for religious holidays give "make up" exams. I used to belong to a MLM business that would constantly have seminars & meetings on Saturday. Wouldn't you know it, they scheduled the same meetings & seminars for those who's religious beliefs conflicted with Saturday; it wasn't just the Jews but also the Jehovah Witnesses & the Muslaims that have that problem. SAT, MCAT, LSAT, PSAT, & the like exams always have special days for those whose religious beliefs conflict with the scheduled day. So in regards to dealing with the real world, it is you & those like you who have to learn to deal in the real world.

>In regards to your situation, yes,
>you should have accomdated her
>due to her religious restraints,
>unless the job entailed working
>on the Sabbath (btw, that
>is the correct english wording
>for it.). After all,
>all universities that have exams
>scheduled for religious holidays give
>"make up" exams. I
>used to belong to a
>MLM business that would constantly
>have seminars & meetings on
>Saturday. Wouldn't you know
>it, they scheduled the same
>meetings & seminars for those
>who's religious beliefs conflicted with
>Saturday; it wasn't just the
>Jews but also the Jehovah
>Witnesses & the Muslaims that
>have that problem. SAT,
>MCAT, LSAT, PSAT, & the
>like exams always have special
>days for those whose religious
>beliefs conflict with the scheduled
>day. So in regards to
>dealing with the real world,
>it is you & those
>like you who have to
>learn to deal in the
>real world.

People like me? You have NO idea what I am like and don't appreciate your words. Personal attacks are NOT allowed in these fourms-might want to reread the rules of this site.

The lady had two different days to pick from..and she called last minute to say neither day was good for her cause of religious beliefs...Since she had NOT been scheduled for an interview yet I let her pass.

If she wishes to sue, that is fine, but the ad ran for two weeks and she calls last minute? Just the type of person i wish to hire.

The fact that she was too late is another subject.

Your question was:

"Just how many different religious holidays must a business put up with?

Each different religion has holidays that are important to the repsective religion?

Where/when do we say enough is enough?"

The answer to the first question is none except Christmas which is the only religious Holiday that I am aware of for which most businesses close. When Jewish people take off Yom Kippur and Rosh Hashana, aat my compnay and others, it is charged against their vacation or personal days just the same as Christians get carged a day if they take off Good Friday. Peopl taking a religious day off are not getting a free ride in terms of additional time off.

Or, put another way, everybody gets to take their religious holidays off without fear of being fired. Whether it means one less personal day allowed, or whether it means you get paid for the day, (some companies do not pay for personal days off, some do), people are not put in the position where they have to choose between their conscience and their job.

LAST EDITED ON 04-11-06 AT 05:14 AM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 04-11-06 AT 04:53 AM (EST)

Why don't you all compare oranges to oranges instead of to apples?? You can't compare something that happened to your husband, or anyone else, while ON THE JOB to someone interviewing or looking to interview. A business that has pressing needs that need to be resolved ASAP may not be able to afford to wait until someone's personal religious calendar has a free date. The whole idea is ridiculous. If you are already on the job and your employer requires you to do something against your religious beliefs, and then fires you or holds back benefits because you refuse, THAT may indeed be reason to sue. THAT is not the same as someone CHOOSING to apply for a job. And, if you think finding someone willing to sue makes your point, you will have plenty of points to make. It isn't something I would be proud of, but that is just me, I guess... sue everybody.
Actually,I think AshLanie poised a great question? When is enough, enough? Should we recognize ALL holidays, or none? When you consider the number of religions in this country, is the first option fiscally possible? I doubt it, but I KNOW the second option is NOT desirable.
And here is a news flash on the REAL WORLD, as so many of you like to comment on, the last two corporations I worked for, Fortune 500 companies both, did NOT recognize a single Christian holiday. They recognize National holidays, not Christian holidays, which means no recognition of Good Friday or Easter. Christmas is the biggest holiday in the country. It is a capitalist holiday and has less and less to do with religion every year. So, calling it a Christian holiday is kind of borderline at this point.
So, when talking about living in a country that only recognizes the holidays of one religion, realize what you are talking about, ONE holiday, basically. And also realize where you live. If I lived in Israel,I would expect to have Yom Kippur off. If I lived in India, I would expect to have whatever off... etc. etc.... We could recognize EVERY religious holiday and have 30 national holidays for all I care. Sounds GREAT!!! I don't own a business though... And I guess my employer not going out of business might be kind of important...

>LAST EDITED ON 04-11-06
>AT 05:14 AM (EST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON 04-11-06
>AT 04:53 AM (EST)
>
>Why don't you all compare oranges
>to oranges instead of to
>apples?? You can't compare something
>that happened to your husband,
>or anyone else, while ON
>THE JOB to someone interviewing
>or looking to interview. A
>business that has pressing needs
>that need to be resolved
>ASAP may not be able
>to afford to wait until
>someone's personal religious calendar has
>a free date. The whole
>idea is ridiculous. If you
>are already on the job
>and your employer requires you
>to do something against your
>religious beliefs, and then fires
>you or holds back benefits
>because you refuse, THAT may
>indeed be reason to sue.
>THAT is not the same
>as someone CHOOSING to apply
>for a job. And, if
>you think finding someone willing
>to sue makes your point,
>you will have plenty of
>points to make. It isn't
>something I would be proud
>of, but that is just
>me, I guess... sue everybody.
>
>Actually,I think AshLanie poised a great
>question? When is enough, enough?
>Should we recognize ALL holidays,
>or none? When you consider
>the number of religions in
>this country, is the first
>option fiscally possible? I doubt
>it, but I KNOW the
>second option is NOT desirable.
>
>And here is a news flash
>on the REAL WORLD, as
>so many of you like
>to comment on, the last
>two corporations I worked for,
>Fortune 500 companies both, did
>NOT recognize a single Christian
>holiday. They recognize National holidays,
>not Christian holidays, which means
>no recognition of Good Friday
>or Easter. Christmas is the
>biggest holiday in the country.
>It is a capitalist holiday
>and has less and less
>to do with religion every
>year. So, calling it a
>Christian holiday is kind of
>borderline at this point.
>So, when talking about living in
>a country that only recognizes
>the holidays of one religion,
>realize what you are talking
>about, ONE holiday, basically. And
>also realize where you live.
>If I lived in Israel,I
>would expect to have Yom
>Kippur off. If I lived
>in India, I would expect
>to have whatever off... etc.
>etc.... We could recognize EVERY
>religious holiday and have 30
>national holidays for all I
>care. Sounds GREAT!!! I don't
>own a business though... And
>I guess my employer not
>going out of business might
>be kind of important...

Nice post and stated much better than I had but becareful....you might fall into the caegory of: "one of those people".....as I was by a poster in this very thread.

It is a Christian Holiday. The fact that it has also been made a National Holiday does not change that.

>Your question was:
>
>"Just how many different religious holidays
>must a business put up
>with?
>
>Each different religion has holidays that
>are important to the repsective
>religion?
>
>Where/when do we say enough is
>enough?"
>
>The answer to the first question
>is none except Christmas which
>is the only religious Holiday
>that I am aware of
>for which most businesses close.
>When Jewish people take off
>Yom Kippur and Rosh Hashana,
>aat my compnay and others,
>it is charged against their
>vacation or personal days just
>the same as Christians get
>carged a day if they
>take off Good Friday. Peopl
>taking a religious day off
>are not getting a free
>ride in terms of additional
>time off.

I am an office Manager and a professional interviewer (glorified titled which means no one else in the firm wishes to do this job-chuckling) and actually the people who take off for religious holidays, school functions, etc get a half days pay where I work BUT the day is asked off way in advance so things can be rearranged as needed.

It just seems, after thinking and reading these posts that if in NY the jewsih holidays are so important and Trump knows this, then why not hold off three weeks to begin taping?

This way, the drama of it all would be avoided.....
......But wait, is Trump USING ths situzation to cause drama?
....Is he as accomadating as he wishes the viewers to see?

Something to think about.

I haven't seen this mentioned, but couldn't Lee have worked with his team before and after Yom Kippur? I think the tasks take two days, couldn't he have contributed outside of the proscribed Holy Day?

A couple of points.

1) I doubt that Lee is Orthodox (BTW I am Orthodox) for the following reasons (not exhaustive):
a)His team hasnt won too many tasks, but I dont remember him refraining from eating at reward restaraunts or munching on cereal and cold foods in the suite while others had normal meals. In other words, he doesnt seem to keep the kosher dietary laws.
b) Some of the tasks must be filmed on Saturdays, and he would be therefore missing a lot more tasks.
c) He probably will not be trying to take off for the holiday of Sukkot, which comes 5 days after Yom Kippur.

2) Having said that, a large number of otherwise non-Orthodox Jews take the "high holidays" very seriously (Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur) and will not work on those days and they go to synagogue, etc. (Obvious examples of Hank Greenberg, Sandy Koufax, Shawn Green, although they weren't 100% about this. A large percentage of non-Orthodox Jews feel more strongly about this). I am sure Lee falls into this category.

3) Unfortunately, there are those who use their religion as a sense of entitlement. They make demands without consideration for others. I have seen this too many times and cringe and am embarrassed every time.

4) I think it is certainly unfair and wrong to attack AshLanie in these posts. We only know of the situation b/c that person brought it up, and we dont know the facts. I think it is quite understandable that if someone calls at the last minute for an interview and the only slots available are unsuitable for religious reasons, then thats too bad for the interviewee. Im sure the response would have been the same had the person said "I have medical appointments" or some other reason which normally one might try to be accomodating if it weren't last minute.

5) I am very happy to be born and live in a country where I am allowed to choose to worship how I wish. However, I recognize that my choices have consequences and that it is not my right to impose my religion on others. There are many jobs in this world that are not 9-5 5 days a week, and I cant expect them to change for me.

GREAT post, Keyser, and hopefully that is a fitting note to wrap up a thoroughly exhausted thread.

Sorry, there are still some points to be made.

Ash Lanie, you said that you offered to reschedule the interview to the Saturday following the High Holy Day. I am not Jewish, so i do not know if the Saturday following the High Holy Day-the next day-is as sacred as the High Holy Day itself.

If it is not, then there is the matter that the job has the right to require you to work on any day, and if you can't, you can be let go, (and presumably not hired in the first place).

The reason I know this is because I read of a case where a Christian who observed Saturday as Sabbath was hired on the agreement that he would not have to work Saturdays, but the company was sold and the new owners planned to stay open on Saturdays. He lost his case, but was allowed, (the company never contested this part), to collect unemployment for six months.

So you might have cause to shoot the applicant down on the Saturday issue, if your company requires people to work on Saturdays as a condition of employment. Again, I don't know if the Saturday following a High Holy Day is special, however.

LAST EDITED ON 04-17-06 AT 06:56 AM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 04-17-06 AT 06:52 AM (EST)

>Sorry, there are still some points
>to be made.
>
>Ash Lanie, you said that you
>offered to reschedule the interview
>to the Saturday following the
>High Holy Day. I
>am not Jewish, so i
>do not know if the
>Saturday following the High Holy
>Day-the next day-is as sacred
>as the High Holy Day
>itself.
>
>If it is not, then there
>is the matter that the
>job has the right to
>require you to work on
>any day, and if you
>can't, you can be let
>go, (and presumably not hired
>in the first place).
>
>The reason I know this is
>because I read of a
>case where a Christian who
>observed Saturday as Sabbath was
>hired on the agreement that
>he would not have to
>work Saturdays, but the company
>was sold and the new
>owners planned to stay open
>on Saturdays. He lost
>his case, but was allowed,
>(the company never contested this
>part), to collect unemployment for
>six months.
>
>So you might have cause to
>shoot the applicant down on
>the Saturday issue, if your
>company requires people to work
>on Saturdays as a condition
>of employment. Again, I
>don't know if the Saturday
>following a High Holy Day
>is special, however.

Sigh I never offered to reschedule anything.....that was my point...

I will restate fot the last time:

The ad ran for TWO weeks and it included which days and times one could be cheduled..

Fri and Sat were the days scheduled for interviews (Sat being MY usual day off).

The lady called on Thurs and explained that both days were bad because of religious Jewish holdays...

First, she hadn't been scheduled yet for an appt she was calling to ask if her appt could be a different day for religious reasons.

I explained those were the only two days since it wa on Momday I would be calling the two people who would be hired.

Second, I never change MY schedule to accommodate anyone who calls last minute with any excuse/s.

Third: And this is for the ones who sent me nasty pm's regarding this:

I work for a law firm, let her sue.

Also, I am not an anti-smemtic (which is what three people actually called me within their nasty pm to me).....but could become one REAL quick after the nasty pm's I recieved. Contrary to what some of you typed at me Jews do not hve a monopoly at being priviledged to schedule their appts on their time. I gave up MY FREE Sat to schedule interviews and if people couldn't attend either Fri or Sat for whateve reasons oh well.

If someone wants a job bad enough, it is up to them to be available to be interviewed.

NO where, even though some continue to insist: I never said the person being hired would have to work on Sat but the interviews were being conducted on a Sat which btw is my normal day off.

As I stated in another post:

IF the Jewish holiday is that important to the New York people then why couldn't Trump have postponed the taping til after these two hoidays?

He spoke as if he was in support of these days YET taped on these two days.

Why? Drama! He knew, the producers knew, that there would be drama. He knew, as most here, are not from NY and the show knew the non new yorkers would complain.

Which did happen-on the show and on this board.

I also stated that Lee has plenty of time to prove himself.

Also, I am not an anti-smemtic (which is what three people actually called me within their nasty pm to me).....but could become one REAL quick after the nasty pm's I recieved.

Just for the record, bashing other posters is not permitted on these boards whether it be in the threads or in PMs. You may want to contact a moderator about that issue. You can tell who the moderators are by the blue icon next to their screen names.

Here are the complete guidelines for those new folks out there. You all may want to familiarize yourselves with them.

>Also, I am not an anti-smemtic
>(which is what three people
>actually called me within their
>nasty pm to me).....but could
>become one REAL quick after
>the nasty pm's I recieved.
>
>
>Just for the record, bashing other
>posters is not permitted on
>these boards whether it be
>in the threads or in
>PMs. You may want to
>contact a moderator about that
>issue. You can tell who
>the moderators are by the
>blue icon next to their
>screen names.
>
>Here are the complete guidelines for
>those new folks out there.
>You all may want to
>familiarize yourselves with them.
>

The quote of mine wasn't bashing others BUT showing I was being bashed.

I do hope you are a moderator (Am color blind so someone having a blue icon means nothing to me) otherwise you have broken one of the guildlines: NOT to correct the members here UNLESS one is a moderator.

Yes, I understood that. I never said you did anything wrong. My point was if other posters are bashing you and calling you names, if you felt it was innappropriate, then you should contact a moderator.

Here is the part about that:

II. DO NOT ATTACK OTHER MEMBERS
Personal attacks on other members will not be tolerated. Challenging the points of view and the opinions of other members is permitted, but only as long as you can do so respectfully and thoughtfully, without personal attack or insult. If you cannot be tolerant of others' beliefs and opinions, then please avoid introducing, reading or participating in topics that lead to such discussions.

The blue icons are next to the moderators name when you look at the list of posts on the thread. Like AyaK up there, for example.

...otherwise you have broken one of the guildlines: NOT to correct the members here UNLESS one is a moderator.

No, I do not believe that is one of the guidelines. People correct people all the time around here. There are many details and facts that can get muddled on these shows and I know myself that I have been corrected about those facts at times.

I only posted my previous response to try and be helpful to you.

...and now I'll be on my way because I'm getting way off topic of the original intent of this thread.

Sorry, mods!

I really don't have anything against you, but saying you could become anti-semetic because of three little people who PMed you...?
Isn't that kinda harsh?

>I really don't have anything against
>you, but saying you could
>become anti-semetic because of three
>little people who PMed you...?
>
>Isn't that kinda harsh?

Yes it was harsh (Had many pm's ONLY 3 were courageous enought to outright call me this-others insinuated it)...was trying to say maybe this is why some change their attitudes about classes of people, religious people etc.

Anyhow, I am done with this topic.

LAST EDITED ON 04-12-06 AT 08:29 PM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 04-12-06 AT 08:23 PM (EST)

Quote Keyser: 3) Unfortunately, there are those who use their religion as a sense of entitlement. They make demands without consideration for others. I have seen this too many times and cringe and am embarrassed every time.

Keyser, I think yoiu might be bending over backwards trying to seem accommodating because you think Janda might have put people off.

Except for this one unique case, I have never seen anybody give themselves any advantages merely by taking off Rosh Hashanah or yom Kippur.

I went to the New York City public high schools and worked in New York for years. If a Jewish person took off those days, it was just generally understood by all concerned and the job carried on. I cannot recall a single instance where anyone acted with a sense of "entitlement". They just took off the day, everyone understood, and that was that.

I'm not a lawyer, I can't speak for every job in donut shops or places where people are expected to work Sundays or holidays, or any other unique situation. I can only offer my experience that in a regular job in a plant or office, people simply take off the High Holy Days and nobody complains or questions it. End of story.

As far as Lee's situation goes, it is unique. He DID receive an advantage in this, I must admit I never saw that before. Then again, how many job interviews require you to move into a hotel suite for three months with the other applicants while the interview process takes place?

I just feel that overall, Lee was right in expecting to be able to take off without penalty. The interview process is three months, this is New York, I would be shocked if it was held against him. I am somewhat disappointed that given it's unique nature, the game actually went on on those two days, though.

Here's a thought-what about any Jewish cameramen whos job it was to film the other contestants' negatively reacting to Lee's observance of the holdidays? Were they allowed to take off? Uh-oh, better not go there.....

They should have just shut down production of the show during the holiday...as they would have if they were shoot during Christmas day.

I don't think it is right that during a job interview you duck out for two holidays. Most people in this country have a belief but you notice that stores, malls, wal mart, doctor office etc WORK.

LAST EDITED ON 04-18-06 AT 08:38 AM (EST)

Lee work Xmas? He probably would.

True story. About 12 years ago, it just so happened that the local Subway Sandwich shop was open. When I went in to order a sandwich, (Christmas Dinner was going to be late that night), I told the lone guy behind the counter that I was surprised he was open.

"I'm the owner, and I'm Jewish", he said. "So I gave all the employees off and just decided to open up myself to get whatever business is out there". I would guess Lee would be the same way.

Just one more slant on this issue.

Being a Project Manager early is hazardous-a very high percentage of Project Managers who lose early in a series get fired. That is because when there are many players, none of them has a job that is so critical that it can cause the loss. Attention focuses on the Project Manager when looking for a reason.

When the task is divided only five ways or four ways, then it is much easier to point the finger at one other person as being responsible for the loss, since each member is therefore responsible for a bigger piece of the action.

Since Trump selected the Project Managers for the first task, Lee volunteered to be Project Manager as early as he could. I'm just wondering if the fact that he was intending to takethe High Holdy Days off might have something to do with that decision, since becoming a Project Manager early is such a dangerous position.

I think his reasoning was that if he loses the task, as Project Manager he'll probably be fired and there will be no conflict. If he wins the task, then when the High Holy Days occur in a week, (I think that in real time, they do about two tasks a week), he'll have the prestige of being a winning Project Manager fresh in everyone's memory and they will be more likely to give him a pass.

My guess is that the producers told Lee beforehand that it would be up to his team whether or not to blame him for any losses which occurred in his abscence, and Lee volunteered for Project Manager as quickly as he could to try to build up prestige so his team would accept his decision.

We'll never know for sure, but I do think that is why Lee wanted to become Project Manager so soon.

I live in the same area that Lee lives & know which synagogue he's affilated with (Young Israel-which is an orthodox synagogue). He went to Yeshivas his whole life. If you watch his audition video, you will see that Lee is wearing a yarmulka.

There is a religious radio station based in the new york area called "JM IN THE AM", (91.1 ON THE fm DIAL) You can access their website by going to www.jmintheam.org. click on archives. Dan Brody was interview the day after he was fired (Dan is also Orthodox). He explains in the interview how he & Lee avoided alot of problems such as keeping kosher, filming on the Sabbath (wasn't done) & the observance of the High Holidays (DT arranged for them to go to an orthodox synagogue nearby Trump Towers). DT & co. were very understanding & respectful of their religious observances.

In regard to working on the task before & after the holiday, maybe they felt that it wouldn't be fair to just walk away for the middle of a task, that rather it would be better to sit out of the task.

LAST EDITED ON 04-18-06 AT 10:53 AM (EST)

1. a. he apparently does keep kosher in the suite. Look here: http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1139395537683&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull
b. from the same article (this one's about Dan, I don't know about Lee): "All I know is Daniel would in no way compromise the holidays or Shabbos for the show," said Brody's brother Steven, adding, "how the show's going to portray that or ignore that, I don't know".
c.+2. It depends on how much of an orthodox he is. My parents are religious orthodox and keep sukkot and all of the other Holidays. My boyfriend's parents are secular, but they celebrate all holidays and observe only Yom Kippur strictly.
Some Jewish people observe only Yom Kippur and Rosh Hashana, but not keep shabbat and the rest of the Holidays. Maybe Lee is one of those people.

3. I agree. When I was in the army, some soldiers would lie about having to say prayers each morning, so they were given time off to pray. Some were really praying, of course, but a small group of them would slack off while the rest of us were working.
I don't believe that there are many people who are like that.

4. I agree. That person shouldn't have been so late to set an appointment.

That's it in a nutshell. I have nothing against Lee but I think he should've been the one to go.

LAST EDITED ON 04-20-06 AT 11:04 PM (EST)

I don't think you know a great deal about New York City, or the real estate industry in New York City.

People don't get penalized in the real estate industry in New York City for working the High Holy days. End of story. Jews are well represented throughout the city,and especially in the real estate/building industry. On any given High Holy day, a significant amount of your workforce is out.

That's the way it is. I was born and grew up there.

In my opinion, the entire "controversy" was manufactured for the show. As Janda pointed out, efforts were made to allow the observant Jews to remain kosher during in the suite during the months of the filming. Lee showed up for the interview wearing a yarmulke. The filming is in the fall, one of your contestants wears a yarmulke and is provided with ability to cook kosher-but a "controversy" erupts when he takes off the High Holy Days.

Who is Trump and Burnett kidding? You know damn well the Lee and Dan are taking off the High Holy Days, you go along with them all the way, but then act like it is a surprise when they take off?

I blame Trump and Burnett for being unfair to the other contestants. This whole thing was set up to happen.

Since I last posted here, in which I speculated that Lee (and by implication Dan) were not Orthodox (and I am Orthodox), I have read some articles (including the ones posted here) about Lee and Dan actually being Orthodox and dealing with some of the issues that I raised. I should have done more research and generally apologize to all and to both of them in particular if they read this.

What a moronic decision it would be to fire Lee for absence due to religious observance. In America? With anti-discrimination laws both federally and in every State? And Christians being expected to be out of work on Christmas and Easter - isn;t that exactly the same thing? The decision to bring Lee into the boardroom based on his absence due to religious activity - THAT warranted a firing of the project manager, because it showed that he was ignorant, completely short-sighted, obtuse about laws obviously applicable to the workplace, and a bigot too dumb even to recognize his own bigotry.

LAST EDITED ON 05-02-06 AT 02:04 PM (EST)

As I stated before, I think it was idiotic for the producers to both assure Lee that his religious beliefs would be respected then have the elimination tournament continue with him getting a free pass on those days.

As Janda pointed out, the filming was in Septmembr and Lee showed up to interview for the show wearing a yarmulke. As if the name Bienstock alone wasn't enough clue to let people know whe wouldn't be working Yom Kippur and Rosh Hashanah.

Most of the Jewish people I know don't wear yarmulkes, but they all take those two days off.

In a previous series, Toral from India was fired because she refused to dress up in a costume. In her defense, she cited some Hindu belief. That excuse was treated with contempt by Trump and George. In truth, Toral certainly looked like she threw that belief up as a last resort to try to prevent being fired.

Wanna bet that Trump got some irate letters from Hindu groups because it turns out there is something about Hindu beliefs and costumes after all, so now Trump has to publicly proclaim his tolerance by giving Lee the day off while the others still have to play the elimination game?

The only correct course was to give everyone off for Yom Kippur and Rosh Hashanah. As I stated before, Trump runs a real estate company in New York City, and I guarantee that NOBODY in that industry holds it against anyone taking off those two days. Not in New York, no sir. This is a manufactured "controversy" by the show's producers.

Sing it on! I agree. It's not an issue of religion, Lee has manipulated so that he cannot be touched out of fear of Trump looking anti-semitic. Which he would NOT have looked like if he fired Lee when he should have, way earlier.