but this to me is why he got booted.

Chris isn't a POP idol. he's a potential rock star. his audience isn't who's doing the power-voting.

there's a reason why I've never heard of Fuel. they're not well-known in the mainstream pop culture.

(not that I do pop culture either, lol. my personal tastes are more alternative ... )

>there's a reason why I've never
>heard of Fuel. they're not
>well-known in the mainstream pop
>culture.

Fuel is rock group. Fuel has appeared on MTV and VH1. "Hemmorage" was huge hit, even on pop stations. They had enough hit songs to merit a greatest hits compilation. It was a big story when their lead singer quit. I've read articles about them in Rolling Stone. If you don't keep up with the music scene, then you might not have heard of them. But I don't think you can say they are not well-known.

>(not that I do pop culture
>either, lol. my personal tastes
>are more alternative ... )

Our campus radio station is pretty much devoted completely to alternative music. They play Fuel songs all the time.

Goddess of the Steeler Nation

Fuel is rock group. "Hemmorage" was huge hit

Geg talking like Tonto...

Well, you are entitled to your opinions.

Like it or not, so am I, and so are fans of the other contestants.

I don't believe Chris has any more of a broad appeal than Taylor does. He may ooze something, but it's not pop star to me.

I guess we'll have to wait and see who will be played on the radio and who will be selling out stadiums in the years to come, lol.

Just because some people don't like Taylor does NOT mean he won't be a major success. You may not like him, that's fine. Obviously, other people do.

My opinion of Taylor has no bearing on whether or not I think he will be a major success. My opinion of his chances of success depend entirely on the type of performer he is. As AKim points out,

It's not rocket science--which video channel is Taylor going to be a success on? Which radio station is Taylor going to be played on 24/7?

Pop marketing is based on similarities. It’s based on saying “He is the new X” or “She sounds just like Y only she’s fresh!”. It’s based on putting them in a slot and pushing that slot. It’s based on finding some hook to give the public. What’s Taylor’s hook? What slot does he fit in? What artist is out there right now that is a major success that Taylor is just like, only newer?

I’d just like to note that I’m not saying that this is how music should be marketed, but I am saying that this is how music is marketed.

I think that one of the biggest aspects of Taylor’s success is that he has no slot. There is no one out there like him. His fanbase is so rabid because he speaks to them in a way that other singers don’t speak to him. Unfortunately, popular success is driven by speaking to a wider audience, and I don’t see Taylor speaking to that audience, at least not without losing the audience he has now, not without losing the things that make him unique. The reason Taylor is unique is because what he does doesn’t speak to a larger audience.

That’s not to say that you can never market a new product, never introduce a new type of singer. You can. But anyone with any sort of marketing experience knows it’s a hell of a lot tougher to introduce something completely new than it is to market in an established genre.

Will Chris sell records to all of America? No.

Never said he would. I said he will be fine. So will Taylor. So will Kat. Elliott is the only contestant remaining who probably needs to win to have a career.

But it is easier to market Chris. There is an existing slot you can put him in. Same with Kat, and, to a lesser extent, Elliott.

Personally? I think Chris is a good enough singer, but never showed much personality on AI. Just never did anything to really impress me. I thought he sang both songs badly Tuesday night. From the outcome of the vote, apparently I wasn't alone.

No, you probably weren’t alone. On the other hand, you can’t use the outcome to make far reaching general statements. You never can. The outcome of the vote tells us nothing beyond who got the most votes. Maybe Kat’s fans voted heavy because they felt she was in trouble. Maybe Chris’s fans thought he was safe. Maybe people voted for other contestants not because they thought Chris was bad, but because they thought others were better.

I'm not sure what you're basing your statement about Taylor's fanbase not growing on? I visit many AI boards, and I've seen new fans coming out of the woodwork over the last 2 wks.

I’m basing them on seeing a lot of comments from people along the lines of “Well, I liked Taylor at the start but now I am growing tired of him.” I haven’t seen a whole lot of “Wow, Taylor has really changed my opinion of him” comments. That is what I meant by growing his fanbase – not making fans of people who previously had no opinion, but making fans of people who previously had a different opinion. The only contestant who seems to be growing their fanbase is Elliott.

Honestly, why bash Taylor and make statements about how Chris will be a success and Taylor won't?

I don’t see how saying I don’t think Taylor will not be a major success is bashing him. Bashing him would be saying something like, oh, I don’t know

He may ooze something, but it's not pop star to me.

That seems like bashing.

The reason I brought is up is because of lot of Taylor’s fans seem to think he will be a major popular success. I’ve seen people compare him to the Rolling Stones and U2 both on a talent level and a future success level.

I personally think they'll both do well, they both have developed solid fanbases on AI.

A solid AI fanbase does not equal major popular success. History has proven that.

I just don't understand the need by some of the Chris fans to try to discredit the others who are still there.

Not a Chris fan. Most everyone here who has read my posts on Chris can attest to that. I’m not trying to discredit anyone. I’m trying to make a realistic assessment of chances of major popular success.

Alot of ugliness has come out since last night's show.

You mean ugliness like, oh, I don’t know

He may ooze something, but it's not pop star to me.

Yeah. Comments like that can be pretty ugly.

I guess we'll have to wait and see who will be played on the radio and who will be selling out stadiums in the years to come, lol.

Will Taylor get played on the radio? Of course. Will he be all over the radio the way that Kelly Clarkson seems to be at times? Nope. Will he sell out stadiums? Nope. I don’t think Chris will, either. There's been one contestant who has whose become a huge star capable of selling out stadiums by herself. Kelly. No one else has. No one else has come close. Maybe Carrie will in time - she certainly has gotten off to a better start than anyone else. But right now she is still considered a country artist, not a crossover artist, and she is still being packaged on tours with other artists (though to be fair, even the biggest country artists get packaged on tour together.).

LAST EDITED ON 05-12-06 AT 01:06 PM (EST)

That was quite the post Weasel, lol. My goodness you are verbose this morning.

Your post is a little unfair. You are taking several of my comments out of context, as they were in response to AKim's post, not yours. You can't combine the 2 posts. She was bashing, and my oozing comment was an appropriate response to the tone of her post.

"The reason I brought is up is because of lot of Taylor’s fans seem to think he will be a major popular success. I’ve seen people compare him to the Rolling Stones and U2 both on a talent level and a future success level."

As long as you realize all of Taylor's fans don't make silly statements like that. I'm a fan, I'm not stupid, and I don't think he's the second coming. I just like him, and I will buy his CD and see him in concert if possible.

Edited to add that I've seen Chris fans make some pretty wild statements about Chris too. I didn't bring them up because I know not everyone is like that.

I’m almost always verbose. It’s not just this morning.

Your post is a little unfair. You are taking several of my comments out of context, as they were in response to AKim's post, not yours. You can't combine the 2 posts. She was bashing, and my oozing comment was an appropriate response to the tone of her post.

Unfair? Only if pointing out what you said is unfair. Out of context? Not in the least. This is what you said in response to me:

Honestly, why bash Taylor and make statements about how Chris will be a success and Taylor won't? I personally think they'll both do well, they both have developed solid fanbases on AI. I just don't understand the need by some of the Chris fans to try to discredit the others who are still there. Alot of ugliness has come out since last night's show.

That would indicate that you disagreed with the ugliness and didn’t think anyone should be bashed. You then said, in response to AKim,

He may ooze something, but it's not pop star to me.

which is a comment that is both a bash and somewhat ugly, particularly since there isn’t anything in AKim’s post that one could consider a bash. I mean, which of the following statements is a bash?

He's goofy and fun and can sing some great blues and will make a nice niche record or two, but he will not be a pop star. He's not made that way. Chris is. Chris ooozes pop star. Chris IS an American Idol in the sense of the term. Taylor is a great guy who'd be a lot of fun at parties and who was probably the nerdy guy in school who loved karaoke. More power to him, but he's not going to sell out stadiums ten years from now flopping around on the floor doing the gator.

The closest thing would be the nerdy guy in school comment, and that’s hardly a bash. Indeed, I think it’s something Taylor would probably agree with.

As for combining the two posts, of course it can be done. It’s absolutely appropriate to point out when someone posts something in response to one person, then posts something the direct opposite or, in this case, showing the direct opposite intent, in another post in response to someone else.

"I’m almost always verbose. It’s not just this morning."

Agreed. I didn't mean to make it sound like a one time thing. I've been on the survivor board here for several years, and I am familiar with you from there.

"He may ooze something, but it's not pop star to me.

which is a comment that is both a bash and somewhat ugly, particularly since there isn’t anything in AKim’s post that one could consider a bash. I mean, which of the following statements is a bash?"

Apparently this comment really upset you, as you keep referring to it. Why is that a bash, & ugly? I've seen lots of Chris fans saying he oozes sex appeal. Is that a bash? I don't think Chris is a pop star, end of story.

As far as AKim's post, it was condescending. Starting off a post with "It doesn't take a rocket scientist" is pretty much a tip-off. Then continuing on into karaoke and flopping like a gator = bash. Of course, if you say it's not, who am I to argue?

This type of cronyism is why I don't frequent this board often. Anyone with an opinion outside the normal majority here is attacked. There seems to be a concerted effort to drive off anyone that doesn't agree 100% with the groupthink.

I probably shouldn’t respond, but I will anyway. It’s that kind of day.

Apparently this comment really upset you, as you keep referring to it. Why is that a bash, & ugly? I've seen lots of Chris fans saying he oozes sex appeal. Is that a bash? I don't think Chris is a pop star, end of story.

Doesn’t upset me in the slightest. Like I said, I’m not a Chris fan. I keep referring to it because it is an example of you doing what you had decried in a previous post. You lamented the fact that people were bashing and saying ugly things when responding to me, then turned around and said something that most people would consider a bash and ugly when responding to AKim, then tried to say that it wasn’t appropriate for me to point that out.

Saying someone oozes sex appeal is not a bash. Saying someone oozes something, on the other hand, is not usually a positive, especially if you’ve already crossed off the one of the main things that is usually associated with oozes in a positive way. Ooze generally = pus, slime, etc.

As far as AKim's post, it was condescending. Starting off a post with "It doesn't take a rocket scientist" is pretty much a tip-off.

Yeah, she probably could have done without that.

Then continuing on into karaoke and flopping like a gator = bash. Of course, if you say it's not, who am I to argue?

On the other hand, now it’s you who are taking things out of context. She said, and I’m adding emphasis here:

Taylor is a great guy who'd be a lot of fun at parties and who was probably the nerdy guy in school who loved karaoke.

She’s not saying his current singing style is karaoke.

flopping around on the floor doing the gator

The gator is a dance. It involves getting down on the floor and moving around. The Eagles sand about it. They did it in Animal House. I have seen Taylor do the gator on Idol at least once.

This type of cronyism is why I don't frequent this board often. Anyone with an opinion outside the normal majority here is attacked. There seems to be a concerted effort to drive off anyone that doesn't agree 100% with the groupthink.

Sorry you feel that way, but I think my record on this site speaks for itself. I support the people I agree with on subject no matter how many posts they have, no matter if I have seen their writing before, no matter if I hardly ever agree with them on anything else. On the flip side, I have also argued with some of my best friends here, including AKim. Further, I have expressed opinions outside the normal majority of the site on plenty of occasions and, as a general rule, welcome, even enjoy, debate with people who disagree with me.

Well, thank you for speaking for AKim.

Her post WAS condescending, and I don't believe that the terms karaoke and flopping around like a gator were meant in a positive manner. It's the status quo Taylor criticism from people that don't like him.

Defend it as vigorously as you choose, but her post was directed at me, not you, and I can and will call 'em like I see 'em. Had she not started out with "It doesn't take a rocket scientist" I probably would not have responded at all. I don't understand the Chris love, but to each their own.

I wasn't bashing you (or Taylor for that matter since I don't think one can actually bash a contestant on a reality show by merely critiquing him or her), I was disagreeing with you. I DON'T think it is rocket science to figure out that Taylor is not going play well in the mainstream. I wasn't bashing you or anyone in particular. How many Clay Aiken videos do we see playing around on MTV or VH1 these days? Meanwhile, I can't turn my flipping radio on without hearing Carrie Underwood or Kelly Clarkson, so I know who their markets were. Taylor? not a clue. Chris? I can figure it out--he'll ease right into the Tool, Fuel, Creed, Rob Thomas, Three Doors Down market and not blink an eye. Will he be the second coming of Kelly? Who knows, but I don't think it takes a crystal ball to see that Simon et al would prefer to market him to the masses than Elliott or Taylor. It's just easier. If you were offended that I implied you couldn't understand this simple matter of marketing, then I'm sorry--I wasn't only talking to you. I was speaking to anyone who can't see that Chris is a much easier sell to the GENERAL public, not the American Idol devotees and the old fogey adults who watch it (myself included).

And you're right, karaoke and doing the gator (which is a <i>dance</i> that drunken frat boys are fond of and resembles some of Taylor dance moves) WEREN'T meant to be compliments per se. His goofball singing comes across as bad karaoke to me--it's not like I'm the first person to say this.

FTR, I've said that Chris was boring, too, so I'm an equal opportunity "basher". I don't dislike Taylor--I'm just being honest about him. I'm not blinded by some rabid devotion to him (or Chris).

Lastly, my tone was no different that it usually is. It has nothing to do with people disagreeing or going against "groupthink". Cronyism? Bah. I don't even post here much myself anymore due to work and life. Most people in this forum can't even tell you who I am, so please don't use cry foul just because someone disagreed with you. That's crap.

Miscellaneous Ramblings
--My personal favorite contestant is actually neither of the two.