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Original Message
"Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by realityshowgeek on 12-16-05 at 02:18 AM
The attitudes expressed here is just further evidence of the old adage in the black community about being better than everyone else in order to get what's deserved. Randal demonstrated that he was the superior candidate, yet there's all this debate about letting the loser share the title. I didn't find his decision classless or meanspirited. He knows what it would have meant if the loser was somehow placed on the same level as the winner. It takes away from his victory and there's nothing wrong with him proclaiming "I won this thing, fair and square and should not be held to a higher standard just to be considered deserving".

He did not stab her in the back, he simply stated the facts. If anyone's behavior was questionable during this process, it was Rebecca. She was critical of Randal during one of the boardrooms when it was totally unnecessay. Not that she didn't have every right to be, she was trying to win and let's not forget that was the object of the contest--to win.

To be considered worthy of the title Apprentice, Randal was expected to go above and beyond what any of the other winners had to do. Just proving there's some truth to that old adage afterall.

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Messages in this discussion
"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by maxer on 12-16-05 at 02:23 AM

considering the winner did in fact have to be better than everyone else in a COMPETITION!, this argument is invalid

FOR PURELY BUSINESS REASONS, Rebecca would have been an asset to the Trump organization, and randal himself supported and proclaimed her a strong, good leader

IN HIS FIRST JUDGMENT AS THE TRUMP APPRENTICE, randal made a bad judgment call because his ego couldn't handle "sharing", even though he had already been judged superior to rebecca


way to go hypocrite....apparently, your ego superceded your business judgment

"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by halfpintlemon on 12-16-05 at 02:25 AM
holler!
"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by director on 12-16-05 at 02:27 AM
This is a competition. Yes, it is a business setting but the reason why this show was started in the first place was to create a competition although a business setting. That's why there were task, winners, losers, teams, people being send home etc. A COMPETITION.
"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by mythmargaret on 12-16-05 at 02:45 AM
LAST EDITED ON 12-16-05 AT 02:46 AM (EST)

Maxer: YES YES YES - - you nailed it - - right here.

"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by zipperhead on 12-16-05 at 09:25 AM
The previous episodes were taped quite a few weeks ago. The live finale was last night. In the meantime, both Randal and Rebecca would have had to focus on the weaknesses of the other person so that they could make themselves look better in the final Board Room. So, you think that after weeks of mentally diminshing Rebecca so that he could be confident in the final interview Randal could toss away his overall impression of Rebecca at a moment's notice? Give me a break.
"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by CantStandToLook on 12-16-05 at 02:29 AM
I dont know if this could be considered a duplicate thread as it's discussing the fact that Randall IS the apprentice as opposed to how awful he is for not hiring Rebecca.

Rebecca simply DID NOT WIN. It should be as simple as that.

If anyone was in the wrong in this case it was Donald Trump and not Randall. Unless my ears deceive me, he said "Randall, You're Hired" , not Rebecca you're hired. That should have been the end of it.

That's right , you're fired..get out already

"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by maxer on 12-16-05 at 02:33 AM
you will never have a good career in business leadership or television show development

"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by CantStandToLook on 12-16-05 at 02:42 AM
thanks for your so soo astute observation.
"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by mythmargaret on 12-16-05 at 02:43 AM
Trump wanted another surprise for the season - - think of how many times he "broke" the rules firing whole groups of people. How much he would have loved to hire them both. He aske Randall fully expecting him to be magnanimous and Randall let him down. Do you really think Trump would have asked him if he expected him to say "no"?! And what do you think Rebecca would have said if she had been the one asked?... It was mean. Straight up. Even shocked DT.
"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by CantStandToLook on 12-16-05 at 02:46 AM
I have no doubt that Donald expected Randall to say Yes, sure whatever boss. The problem is that he's put these people at each others throats for 13 weeks trying to prove who was the best and why they were better than everyone else.

Randall had to beleive (and I believe) that he was the best candidate and therefore deserved the job. If Trump wanted to be oh so benevolent, instead of hiring Randall and then asking the question, he should have hired them both.

He DID NOT, so it was totally unfair to put Randall on the spot like that.

"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by lrlr1 on 12-16-05 at 03:50 AM
>even when you live in >'their' neighborhoods, >you shouldn't even speak >against something you >don't like, or in >'their' schools, complin >against anything because >you should be grateful >in are there in the >first place


This the crux of all the ballyhoo - how dare you have an opinion different from mine! If you need further evidence of this arrogant assumption of entitlement to 'correct' opinion-making, i.e., opinions based on OTHERS' experience, not your own, look no further than this board. In one thread, a poster became so incensed that others (mainly Blacks) refused to change their POV to her POV that she wrote sneeringly that Randal's "grandmother probably died of syphillis."

"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by syren on 12-16-05 at 03:47 AM
DT said that both tasks had to be completed. Rebecca failed one. Who is to say that him giving Randall the authority of hiring Rebecca or not, was not his way of testing him to see if he would put a friend in a position that he knew she could not handle.
To me, that is a sound business practice. No owner or CEO wants someone who will put friends above the company.

"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by ND4me on 12-16-05 at 02:33 AM
>The attitudes expressed here is just
>further evidence of the old
>adage in the black community
>about being better than everyone
>else in order to get
>what's deserved.

Don't even go there, my friend. Unless you are black, don't try to insinuate yourself into our experience. You are correct that we have to be 110% the candidate in many cases to get the job. But that is NOT what was at play here. He got the job. He blocked another person's success because of his greed. That's what happened.

Unforgivable. I am ashamed.

"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by CantStandToLook on 12-16-05 at 02:42 AM
I'm a black male and while I knew the race card would come up, Randall was the clear winner by none. If someone wants to play the race card, they might be able to say that he was put in the competition because he was %110 percent better than the other candidates and it was be nearly impossible for people to complain that he won only on race.

He obliterated the competition. The show is about finding an apprentice (one) and he should have never been put in the position of having to hire/not hire the loser (LOSER) (PERSON WHO DID NOT GET CHOSEN), if Donald wouldn't hire her why should Randall. If Donald would have hired her, she would have been the winner and Randall would have been the loser.

Put on the spot like that , I probably would have said yes but only because I was put on the spot and worried that people would resent me for my decision. I'm glad that no matter how everyone else took it, Randall stood up for the fact that he was the best candidate and he was chosen and shouldn't have to nullify by effectively saying, Yeah you're right, we tied.

"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by maxer on 12-16-05 at 02:49 AM

yeah, because anyone with half a brain would realize it makes no sense to hire the SECOND BEST person for A DIFFERENT JOB

randal may have been 3-0 as project manager for a tv show

as trump's newest apprentice? - randal is already 0-1 for good judgment calls

his ego superceded a good business decision

don't confuse adding an asset to your organization with demeaning your strongest new hire


"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by CantStandToLook on 12-16-05 at 02:58 AM
He gave the decision to Randall to make. Trump may have thought Rebecca was second best but obviously Randall didn't agree and I dont know that I would have agreed either.

The goal of the last task was to raise money for Charity. If Rebecca was really focused, she would have grown a backbone with Yahoo. How convienent for them to donate $100,000 now after the show made them look like idiots putting on a Charity show but not allowing the Charity to solicit any donations.

"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by zipperhead on 12-16-05 at 09:31 AM
Just because Rebecca made it to the final two does not mean that she was the second best candidate. And if Randal truly believed that she was not qualified (she's a 23-year-old journalist - not a proven business person!) then Randal was perfectly in the right for not licking Trump's boots and hiring someone as a conciliatory gesture. Any half-witted business person knows that you do not hire someone just because you feel sorry for them.
"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by ND4me on 12-16-05 at 02:55 AM
>I'm a black male and while
>I knew the race card
>would come up, Randall was
>the clear winner by none.

What are you talking about "clear winner by none?" He was the clear winner by a landslide.

>
>He obliterated the competition. The show
>is about finding an apprentice
>(one) and he should have
>never been put in the
>position of having to hire/not
>hire the loser (LOSER) (PERSON
>WHO DID NOT GET CHOSEN),
>if Donald wouldn't hire her
>why should Randall. If Donald
>would have hired her, she
>would have been the winner
>and Randall would have been
>the loser.

Excellent point... Trump weenied out with this move.

>
>Put on the spot like that
>, I probably would have
>said yes but only because
>I was put on the
>spot and worried that people
>would resent me for my
>decision. I'm glad that no
>matter how everyone else took
>it, Randall stood up for
>the fact that he was
>the best candidate and he
>was chosen and shouldn't have
>to nullify by effectively saying,
>Yeah you're right, we tied.

I couldn't disagree more. Elevating yourself by keeping someone else down is a hollow victory. Randal deserved the win and got it. It wouldn't cheapen it one bit by helping someone else along.


"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by CantStandToLook on 12-16-05 at 03:01 AM
I'm a black male and while
>I knew the race card
>would come up, Randall was
>the clear winner by none.

What are you talking about "clear winner by none?" He was the clear winner by a landslide.

I meant to say bar none. He was most definitely the clear winner.

I couldn't disagree more. Elevating yourself by keeping someone else down is a hollow victory. Randal deserved the win and got it. It wouldn't cheapen it one bit by helping someone else along.

Here is where I disagree because I dont think he was Elevating himself at all. I think Trump asking him to hire the runner-up was an insult to the competition itself.

"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by MizJazmine on 12-16-05 at 05:14 AM
Exactly!
"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by lrlr1 on 12-16-05 at 03:06 AM
I agree with your totally!
"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by realityshowgeek on 12-16-05 at 03:01 AM
LAST EDITED ON 12-16-05 AT 03:03 AM (EST)

>>The attitudes expressed here is just
>>further evidence of the old
>>adage in the black community
>>about being better than everyone
>>else in order to get
>>what's deserved.
>
>Don't even go there, my friend.
> Unless you are black,
>don't try to insinuate yourself
>into our experience. You
>are correct that we have
>to be 110% the candidate
>in many cases to get
>the job. But that
>is NOT what was at
>play here.


You quoted me in response, so I feel obliged to reply. Yes, I am black--(been so my entire life) and can't imagine why you feel ashamed of Randal. He did the right thing. And I am glad he didn't buckle under the pressure of doing what's expected of the "nice guy". He won and what's wrong with him accepting his prize as the one and only winner. There are a lot of people out there worried about what other's will think. Do you think Rebecca was worried about how others would feel about her when what she said about Randal flew in the face of his record on this show and the relationships he built with the other applicants? NO, because she does not have the same burden as Randal.

>Unforgivable. I am ashamed.

This may be a frivolous reality show and I recognize that, but these shows bring out misplaced pride, shame and raw ugliness from the viewing audience. What's that about??? Because regardless of what people say, in their heart of hearts it all boils down to the one thing we find so difficult to discuss with honesty.

"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by maxer on 12-16-05 at 03:07 AM

don't forget that these shows also bring out the egocentrism of the contestants (randal), especially when doing the right thing (persuading your employer to hire a quality talent and proven asset which you yourself have vouched for) is especially good business sense and judgment, but your ego requires 100% of the spotlight (even though your superior talent has already been recognized)

"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by lrlr1 on 12-16-05 at 03:29 AM
>
>don't forget that these shows also
>bring out the egocentrism of
>the contestants (randal), especially when
>doing the right thing (persuading
>your employer to hire a
>quality talent and proven asset
>which you yourself have vouched
>for) is especially good business
>sense and judgment, but your
>ego requires 100% of the
>spotlight (even though your superior
>talent has already been recognized)
>


What 'persuasion'? DT has been carrying Rebecca for the entire season (almost EVERYBODY had at least 1 PM win and unlike Rebecca, BEFORE the Final 4). DT need no persuasion. After all, he was the one to ask the question. No, what DT was trying to do was to make his BIG surprise come true and manipulate Randal into making Rebecca joint apprentice with him. Randal, to his everlasting credit, refused to be manipulated. That's not egotism; that's intelligence.

"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by zipperhead on 12-16-05 at 09:33 AM
That's not egotism; that's intelligence.

Absolutely. Randal proved once again what a smart business person he is with this decision.

"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by director on 12-16-05 at 03:09 AM
bottom line, people are upset because he is black. Period. If a black person has something wonderful happen to them because it is believed they are not entitled to it, they are expected to be so grateful, sweet, nice and appreciative. When whites get it, because it is seen as an entitlement, they are expected to claim it proudly. This is the case in all things, even when you live in 'their' neighborhoods, you shouldn't ever speak against something you don't like, or in 'their' schools, complain against anything because you should be grateful in are there in the first place. I know from experience.
"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by maxer on 12-16-05 at 03:38 AM
bottom line, you're an idiot for jumping to that conclusion

there may be a few racist puss-filled bags who might qualify as your target, but don't demean yourself by believing the accusation you put forth lies with the overwhelming majority here

randal ABSOLUTELY deserved the win, AND HE GOT IT

and although rebecca was not as good as randal (REPEAT: REBECCA WAS NOWHERE NEAR AS GOOD AS RANDAL; REBECCA WAS NOWHERE NEAR AS GOOD AS RANDAL; REBECCA WAS NOWHERE NEAR AS GOOD AS RANDAL; REBECCA WAS NOWHERE NEAR AS GOOD AS RANDAL; REBECCA WAS NOWHERE NEAR AS GOOD AS RANDAL; REBECCA WAS NOWHERE NEAR AS GOOD AS RANDAL),

the fact is she was easily the SECOND BEST (again, REBECCA WAS NOWHERE NEAR AS GOOD AS RANDAL), thus far in the history of this show, she would have been a great asset to the trump organization

trump was stupid to put it on randal, agreed......but don't pretend rebecca would not have been a great asset, and don't let your past experiences control your present state of thinking

otherwise, you become that which you abhor

"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by syren on 12-16-05 at 03:52 AM
This game, and it is a game, if not about second best. It never has been. It is about the best. Honestly would the CEO want someone in charge of any company that would choose a friend instead of what is right for the actual business?



"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by alyse73 on 12-16-05 at 03:38 AM
Maxer bravo!! well said. Why does this come down to color of skin? My feelings are not based on that. Those TWO were great. Rebecca would have "let" DT hire Randall-she would said "YES" Yahoo screwed her over. Randall dropped the ball. BOTH should have won.
"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by maxer on 12-16-05 at 03:40 AM

randal was the better candidate

but don't let scottie pippen get away simply because you already have michael jordan

"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by Saiga on 12-16-05 at 05:58 AM
>The attitudes expressed here is just
>further evidence of the old
>adage in the black community
>about being better than everyone
>else in order to get
>what's deserved. Randal demonstrated that
>he was the superior candidate,
>yet there's all this debate
>about letting the loser share
>the title. I didn't find
>his decision classless or meanspirited.
>He knows what it would
>have meant if the loser
>was somehow placed on the
>same level as the winner.
>It takes away from his
>victory and there's nothing wrong
>with him proclaiming "I won
>this thing, fair and square
>and should not be held
>to a higher standard just
>to be considered deserving".
>
>He did not stab her in
>the back, he simply stated
>the facts. If anyone's behavior
>was questionable during this process,
>it was Rebecca. She was
>critical of Randal during one
>of the boardrooms when it
>was totally unnecessay. Not that
>she didn't have every right
>to be, she was trying
>to win and let's not
>forget that was the object
>of the contest--to win.
>
>To be considered worthy of the
>title Apprentice, Randal was expected
>to go above and beyond
>what any of the other
>winners had to do. Just
>proving there's some truth to
>that old adage afterall.

First of all, why is this a race issue at all? Show us at what point that Randal had to go beyond what any of the other winners had to do. You state that as a fact, with no supporting evidence whatsoever, much less evidence that, even supposing that were true, it was because he is black.

Second of all, you say that it takes away from his victory if Rebecca was hired. I disagree with that completely, because Rebecca's fate was placed in Randal's hands; if he would have said "Yes, hire her," it not only doesn't diminish his victory, it adds to it: he could have claimed that because of his decision, the Trump Organization gained a strong leader BESIDES himself. I don't deny that he won fair and square, so far as I can tell, no one has said so. Moreover, how would hiring Rebecca in any way whatsoever have anything to do with Randal either being held to a higher standard or be considered undeserving? He won, he got the job, and the issue of hiring Rebecca was not going to change or affect any of that.

Third, it was, in my opinion, a bad business decision. Not only did Rebecca impress Trump, Carolyn and George, but Randel himself said more positive things about Rebecca than he said negative thigns about her (and it should be noted that the same is true of Rebecca speaking of Randel). For Randel to tell Trump not to hire Rebecca is pretty much saying he wouldn't hire her himself, which would make me wonder about whether or not he was being honest about the compliments he paid Rebecca, or whether he was capable of making good hiring and/or business decisions.

"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by sheplu on 12-16-05 at 06:02 AM
You can respect someone, think a lot of them and still think they are not ready for a specific task.
"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by realityshowgeek on 12-16-05 at 06:24 AM
>First of all, why is this
>a race issue at all?
> Show us at what
>point that Randal had to
>go beyond what any of
>the other winners had to
>do. You state that
>as a fact, with no
>supporting evidence whatsoever, much less
>evidence that, even supposing that
>were true, it was because
>he is black.

I said to prove he's deserving of the title, he must go above and beyond. The evidence of that is all this discussion re: his win. He's considered a jerk and classless by some of the posters because he did not allow the LOSER to get the exact same reward he received for WINNING!
Rebecca is smart and capable, but she lost. No IF, ANDS, OR BUTS about it.

"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by Saiga on 12-16-05 at 06:58 AM
I do agree with you 100% that Rebecca lost, no if ands or buts. That is an undisputable fact. What I do dispute is that he has to do or say anything to prove he deserved the title. The truth is that the only person, other than Randal himself, who Randal has to show his worthiness to, is Trump. And again, I fail to see what race has to do with this - other than the racist remarks that some people are making. I discount them utterly, because I don't consider them worthy of discussion whatsoever. I'm surprised anyone does.

However, one thing I will note is that someone else pointed out a fallacy in what you said. We have no proof at all about what terms and even what job Trump might have offered Rebecca if Randal did support Trump hiring her, and neither did Randal. So you cannot accurately say that she would have gotten the same reward for losing as he would have for winning. Not to mention that Trump *could* have called it a tie. He didn't, and I'm not suggesting he should have, but this is not like a game of basketball where you have a clear winner based on an object goal such as how many points were scored. This was clearly a subjective judgement contest, with Trump being the decision maker. Because of this, Randal might have been unwise if he thought of himself as THE (as in, one and only)winner and Rebecca the loser, and rejected Rebecca on those grounds. I'm not saying he did; your post alludes to the fact that you think he might have been thinking that. In the end, he may have won the contest, but he will still have to continue to impress Trump if he wants to keep a position in the Trump Organization for more than a year, and rejecting Rebecca might not have been a very good start. Time may tell.

"RE: Randal is the Apprentice"
Posted by maybaybee on 12-16-05 at 08:52 AM
You are so right. Blacks have to possess super-human stregnth to even be considered in a top position and then to have to share with someone else. It was a totally tacky, disrespectful move on Trump's part. He's never asked any other winner to share the prize, but when a more than qualified black man wins, he's got to share the limelight with Becky. All of us have had our "Becky's" Young whites who are not nearly as qualified but are given titles, corner offices and company cars while we burn the midnight oil and have to look over our shoulder so much that we need chiropractic care.
Trump owes Randal an apology for being so out of line. Bill Rancic was up against Kwame Jackson, a man who was highly educated and just as qualified and likable. Why didn't Trump ask Bill to share his prize???

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