I agree with Gruesome,

http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID37/1642.shtml#7

Thanks for the slo-mo replay, Wayne. That's kinda what I figured. Just the jumble of arms and legs from two highly competative and advisarial teams racing for first second place.

Surfkitten Summer Sigshop 2008

I agree with you.

I think some of the hype was built up from the previews and from the captioning of what they were saying - the editing.

Having said that, As you said, FT had already slipped and fallen once. Also, it was a narrow walkway. I'm not sure what they thought was going to happen, but heat of the moment, I get it.

Samboobree, brought to life by Arkie

"In conclusion, I think the whole thing was an accident."

I almost agree, but I have to ask, what was Flight Time thinking? He knew they'd be third or second, so there was no pressing need to pass the brothers. The bridge was narrow, so there was no way to pass them by without touching them. The footing was usure, so there's little chance contact wouldn't result in people falling. Simply put, he should have held back. No chance to pass without sore feelings.

Not that it's that big of a deal, but if anyone has a right to complain, it's the brothers. Flight Time had no business being there in the first place. That he should start complaining about elbows is ridiculous.

LAST EDITED ON 11-23-09 AT 08:33 PM (EST)

"Flight Time had no business being there in the first place. That he should start complaining about elbows is ridiculous."

Or was it the other globetrotter who complained?

I can tell you what he was thinking. "I'm faster than he is, but he's blocking me from passing."

In sports you get run over if you try and block a faster runner. That's life, if you try and block a faster runner you risk getting run over. As it was FT appeared to be trying to get past without actually running over the guy.

Adding elbowing to blocking would be making a transgression even more egregious.

"In sports you get run over if you try and block a faster runner"

If you stand on the baseline in baseball, you deserve what's coming to you. But Amazing Race is not supposed to be a contact sport. What, were the brothers supposed to step aside and let him pass? They were in front; they had position. The guy behind obviously knew that, and his decision to attempt to pass had to be based on a willingness to instigate contact. That his team would proceed to complain is ridiculous. They were the instigators.

"As it was FT appeared to be trying to get past without actually running over the guy."

There was no way to avoid contact under the circumstances. No way to pass without contact unless the other team yields, and there's no reason why they'd do so. Unless they didn't want to get hit, but then the Globetrotter would just be a bully. "Move or else I'll run you over." Not noble play, especially when nothing is at stake.

"Adding elbowing to blocking would be making a transgression even more egregious."

I can't understand for the life of me how blocking is a transgression, since the world is not run by the maxim "to the faster go the spoils". But let's say it is, then why isn't elbowing justifiable? If the globetrotter can instigate contact by deciding to pass on an unpassable bridge, why can't they instigate contact back? It would be the globetrotter's fault, essentially, because he gave them no choice but to be run over or be knocked out of the way.

What really happened, I think almost everyone agrees, is that the brother accidentally hit the globetrotter, the globetrotter fell and took the brother with him. So there you have it. The globetrotter's decision to attempt a pass resulted in him bumping into the team in front, and ultimately hurting himself.

He should have known, since it was obvious, that the decision to run up to them was a decision to bump into them. Which leads to my question: what was he thinking? Why did he think trying to pass would lead to anything better than what happened?

A little contact isn't so bad. I might not like it if I was the brothers, but whatever. One thing is certain, though: the globetrotters, of all people, have absolutely no grounds to complain.

It's really simple. It boiled down to a contest of foot speed, with finishing first and the attendant advantage that that entails. A foot race is a foot race, and if you block, you get put into the wall. It's a really simple concept in that's prevalent in sports.

If the contest is of foot speed (which the dash to the mat certainly was), why would it be fair for the slower guy to block the faster guy? Clearly, the win should go to the speedier racer. That's the point of a race.

Again, FT was thinking (IMO) that that he was speedier and shouldn't give up on the race without trying to pass. There was a wreck. In sports, wrecks happen they are part of the business. And I'm sure FT knew that that was a possibility, but that he felt (and I agree) that he was justified in trying his luck. Otherwise he'd just be giving up. Not everyone is willing to do that, especially not a pro athlete.

"It's really simple. It boiled down to a contest of foot speed, with finishing first and the attendant advantage that that entails."

The entailed advantage was less than a minute's headstart, right? Not worth the bother. As for it being a contest of foot spped, no, not really, since there was no way to get past them that I can see without knocking them out of the way. So, like a runner sliding into home plate when the catcher is waiting with the ball, it is no longer a matter of speed once the globetrotter approaches the brothers. Forgetting for a second the possibility of sliding around the catcher, it is a contest of brute force.

"A foot race is a foot race, and if you block, you get put into the wall. It's a really simple concept in that's prevalent in sports"

A foot race is indeed not a foot race. For instance, a race in an open field or on a track is different from a race on a narrow wooden bridge. In the case of the latter, it is no longer about how fast you are; it's about whether you can pass without physical violence. He clearly couldn't, which should have been obvious.

Now, I don't know all the Amazing Race rules, so I don' know if bumping and causing to be knocked down is verbotten. But I do know that it's frowned upon, and I do know most of the players I've seen go out of their way to avoid it.

Again, it's not a big deal to me. No injuries, no scandal. I just wonder why he bothered to try, unless he wanted to bump the brothers. It could be the pro athlete within him, but he should realize, he's not setting a pick on a Washington General anymore; he's playing a reality game where people generally avoid contact with eachother.

"And I'm sure FT knew that that was a possibility, but that he felt (and I agree) that he was justified in trying his luck."

I don't. Swallow your pride about your speed. Either you or them or both will end up in the drink, unless you deliberately chuck them over the side. He didn't intend the latter, and obviously hadn't given much thought to the former. There were two possible outcomes: 1) he hurts himself and doesn't pass anyway, or 2) he gets labeled and a-hole for putting his opponents "into the wall" for a measely few second lead.

It was a contest of foot speed. A foot race. To the faster team went any possible spoils (as yet undetermined). There was a collision when the faster team came up behind the slower team and could not get past. Pretty inevitable.

The advantage was possibly finishing first. They were actually going for second and third, but they probably didn't know that. The actual winners weren't anywhere around so both teams may have thought that no one had finished yet.

Even if you discount the fact that they are in a contest, competing, and that a foot race is all that separates winner and loser, and that at least one team (Both I think) have natural competitive urges, the prize for finishing first is your reason he (or any of them) would try and pass. The prize at the end of a leg is substantial.

You and FT would disagree about the decision to try and pass. You would give up at that point figuring you had already lost and cede the possible first place finish. And FT didn't. Fair enough. From this I surmise that FT is more competitive than you would be. Again, fair enough. But just because he has a more competitive spirit than you, you can't fault him for trying to harder than you would to win.

A lot of what you say are reasons that a person might come up with in a debate, using intellectual powers to weigh one position against the other, and you do it well, you have valid points. However, if the decision is to be made in the heat of battle, I think the proactive decision the FT made was reasonable, superior, and even what I would expect of him.

From this I surmise that FT is more competitive than you would be.

I think an equally valid way to express this would be:

From this I surmise that FT is more reckless than you would be.

Does your logic apply only to foot races? I'm curious to know if the same rationale applies to races in cars. If the teams were on a narrow road, how aggressive /reckless / competitive should a reasonable / sportsman person be?

Or, how about if the race is on a scaffolding that involves climbing down from the top? If a competitor is moving slowly, is it fair game to simple try to climb down past / over him? If somebody happened to get knocked off the scaffolding, well, that's just how the Race works...?

I think it was an accident personally.

I think that when your racing to the mat and feeling competative you might take things more seriously than you otherwise would.

I think Flighttime took the right approach. Didn't he not say anything? It was Big Easy who said the threatening comment. Flighttime is a big boy and doesn't need Big Easy to stand up for him. I think in this case not getting into it would have been the best approach when you got to the mat. However, I can see how both teams might be annoyed with each other.

I can say it didn't make me like either team more.

LAST EDITED ON 11-18-09 AT 07:58 PM (EST)

Minor point - but I think it was actually Phil, not Big Easy, who said something like "Big Easy looks like he wants to whip someone's butt". I'd have to replay it to be sure, but I don't reacall Big Easy having much to say. He did have a a scowl.

In essence I agree that it was a "no harm, no foul, it's just racing" incident.

If you watch the full clip, it wasn't really as contentious between them as they made it seem.

http://www.realityblurred.com/realitytv/archives/the_amazing_race_15/2009_Nov_16_mat_footage

Great clip, thanks for posting that. Poor Flight Time - no one let him talk!

They really should be thankful that no one got hurt during that bit. Either could have broken an ankle, leg or arm - especially Big Easy since he fell off the side of the wooden walkway.
I would have bruises all over after such a fall.