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Original Message
"What was the point?"
Posted by Estee on 09-28-09 at 06:30 AM
In last night's first leg, the producers decided to:

1. Eliminate one team before they ever got on the course, robbing them of any joy that might have come from actually participating in the Race.

2. After distributing the remaining pairs on two flights to create a time gap, the contestants were sent to a task which required all eleven teams to be present before anyone could start. Why divide them up just to recombine on the other end of the flight? You tell me.

3. Once everyone was assembled, the order they could leave in was determined by -- random draw. Feeling lucky? If you're not, you could be there a while, especially as other teams start to leave: if that wheel stops on an empty space, it's another spin. Not 'team closest to it gets a shot'. Not 'move over'. Another spin. And another. And another. And another.

4. And if, between roulette wheel and happily wandering tourists, you were so unfortunate as to come in last? Two-hour penalty -- immediately eliminated by the wait for the next flight -- and no elimination. So the whole point of the first hour was to knock someone out immediately in no-course disgrace and send the actual initial last-place finishers onto a second chance. As opposed to, say, letting everyone run a normal first leg with real separation and task departure times determined by skill and effort with just a touch of luck, then removing the first team at a Pit Stop mat -- sending them out with a real experience to remember.

As far as I'm concerned, Jiffie got his wish last night: TAR just forfeited next year's Emmy. And deserved to.

The uncovering of Team PokeHer: random dumb luck or producer plant?

Table of contents
Messages in this discussion
"RE: What was the point?"
Posted by Snidget on 09-28-09 at 06:37 AM
I thought the 2 hour penalty was for arriving with less than your allotted 20 people in match foam visors. Not for being in last place?

There was an inordinate amount of bunching and I don't get the eliminate someone before they get a chance to start thing. What they bought tickets too late to get everyone to Japan at nearly the same time?

"RE: What was the point?"
Posted by Estee on 09-28-09 at 06:48 AM
LAST EDITED ON 09-28-09 AT 06:58 AM (EST)

That's why I said 'happily wandering tourists'. It would have been a lot more fun to make them search all of Tokyo for two foam visors (and the people wearing them), though: at least that might have created a time penalty large enough to mean something.

In theory.

"RE: What was the point?"
Posted by vince3 on 09-28-09 at 06:54 AM
As far as the discovery of team PokeHer's real identities goes, I have the feeling that the Globetrotters probably decided to spend some of their time in the Pit Stop surfing the web finding about their fellow Racers, and ran into their Wikipedia entries or something along those lines......... either that or they might've remembered seeing one of them on one of the WSOPs and decided to check it out to make sure.......
"RE: What was the point?"
Posted by emydi on 09-28-09 at 01:49 PM
no the guy they asked for help in the Tokyo airport recognized them and asked one if she made it to top 15 (i guess the WSOP) and other teams overheard it...they could have gotten more info. but the tourist outed them
"RE: What was the point?"
Posted by mhdallas on 09-28-09 at 07:43 AM
Actually, the 2-hour penalty was because the two poker players didn't complete the challenge, not because they came in last. They said they didn't want to keep walking their group all over town, so they just went ahead and signed in, which caused their penalty.

And, frankly, I'm glad the Yoga couple were eliminated at the start because that is one couple I could not have stood to watch. Their comment about 'taking one for the team' was beyond idiotic - they lost because they were just too stupid to figure out the clues that the rest of the teams did. I thought that was kind of an interesting twist to the game and it did, in fact, succeed in ridding us of one very obnoxious and obviously less than bright couple.

The roulette thing was definitely different - but the show frequently requires 'bunching' so I don't think it was such a big thing that all the teams had to be there before they could start. The luck of the wheel kind of evened out everyone's chances anyway.

I think this is going to be a good year for the show because, unlike past seasons, they got rid of the one couple I truly hated before it even started good. The rest of the teams seem fairly okay, although I may have issues with the poker players later on.

"RE: What was the point?"
Posted by popeave on 09-28-09 at 08:38 AM
Sure - I didn't really like the yoga couple, either, but the fact that one team never even got past the finish line absolutely stinks, especially when combined with the fact that the leg was non-elimination. They couldn't at least let every team take one plane ride overseas? Make them pick out license plates as soon as they get off the airplane in Japan, if you need to eliminate someone quickly.

I thought the wasabi roulette challenge was fun - I dig the Japanese game show stuff - but I kept asking the exact same thing: "What's the point" of the racing up to this challenge. They should have figured out some way to give those who arrived first at the studio some kind of advantage. I hate to see a team's chances so heavily dependent on total random chance. And this is so much worse than a needle-in-a-haystack type search, which involves a lot of random luck, but where teams can at least control the speed with which they run through the field to look for Roaming Gnomes®. Give the first team to arrive at the studio two arrows on the roulette wheel, so they have a higher chance of catching a wasabi bomb. Once the first-arrivers have left, the next team can move up to take their advantageous position.

"RE: What was the point?"
Posted by Max Headroom on 09-28-09 at 09:40 AM
Agree completely, the Tokyo leg was a waste of time.

While the Japanese game show concept was entertaining, it's execution was terrible. Why make everyone wait for the wheel to fill up completely? Start the game as soon as two teams are there. Or have fewer seats at the wheel than teams, start the game as soon as the wheel is full, and make the latecomers wait on a first-come basis for a seat to become available. Instead we get a giant bunch point. Whee!

And I liked the tourist group concept, as Tokyo is a crowded, confusing city with relatively few helpful English-speakers, but again I have objections. 20 was too large of a group, and it was random luck if you drew the broken-shoe tourist or Mrs. Irritable Bowel Syndrome.

Then it's all topped off with a meaningless 2-hour penalty and non-elim. Great job.

I strongly suspect this will not be the TAR episode submitted for Emmy consideration.

"RE: What was the point?"
Posted by mikey on 09-28-09 at 10:20 AM
LAST EDITED ON 09-28-09 AT 10:26 AM (EST)

I wasn't clear on the gameshow thing. Were they waiting very long for all the teams? I thought that, because the second plane was a half hour early, everyone was arriving within a couple of minutes of each other. If the planes had been spaced out more, perhaps they would have started with the first six teams.

In any event, I loved the Japanese game show atmosphere, cheesy graphics and screaming audience. I also loved the duck-herding challenge. The finish between the last two teams was very close. I think the Emmy is very safe.

Agree with you on the eliminating the team at the start. While it was probably more fair than what happened when they had a non-pitstop elimination in the first episode a few seasons back (at least Phil told the teams what was coming) -- it probably eliminated a team I didn't know well enough to hate yet, so there was no satisfaction in their demise.

"RE: What was the point?"
Posted by bullzeye on 09-28-09 at 12:08 PM
Agree with everything written on the subject. The whole episode seemed more disjointed than I am used to.

And what was with the "Speedbump"? I couldn't even imagine an easier task than that.

"RE: What was the point?"
Posted by Estee on 09-28-09 at 12:33 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-28-09 AT 12:35 PM (EST)

And what was with the "Speedbump"? I couldn't even imagine an easier task than that.

I wanted to keep the post on the first half: that and the dubious game skills of Team PokeHer may be another thread. (I can't start every bash, y'know.) But yeah -- *sigh* -- yeesh. 'Here is a bunch of stuff to dump into a bowl. Here is the bowl. Proceed at your own pace.'

"RE: What was the point?"
Posted by Starshine on 09-29-09 at 11:09 AM
I really dislike the subjective tasks, the customs chap could have kept them there for hours had he wanted to, as it happens it wasn't so much a speed bump as <tries to think of something witty, and fails> a beetle in the road

"RE: What was the point?"
Posted by nailbone on 09-29-09 at 11:37 AM
as it happens it wasn't so much a speed bump as

roadkill?


"RE: What was the point?"
Posted by Tahj on 09-28-09 at 12:18 PM
Agree as well. WTF? This show has never been mean spirited...until last night. Quite unfair.

That and all the rest you've commented on makes me think the show must have new producers who have no idea what they are doing.


It's a Tribe!

"RE: What was the point?"
Posted by qwertypie on 09-28-09 at 01:54 PM
As long as Phil is there, I will watch, no matter how bad it gets.
"RE: What was the point?"
Posted by jbug on 09-28-09 at 03:26 PM
And we got to see the eyebrow a couple of times didn't we?


"Yep"
Posted by moonbaby on 09-28-09 at 04:08 PM
the eyebrow never gets old. I'm instantly happy when I see it in action
"RE: What was the point?"
Posted by qwertypie on 09-28-09 at 04:43 PM
OH GOD, YES!
"RE: What was the point?"
Posted by kingfish on 09-29-09 at 10:56 AM
Hmmm, must practice the eyebrow move....
"RE: What was the point?"
Posted by nailbone on 09-29-09 at 11:38 AM
I know, right? Who knew????


"RE: What was the point?"
Posted by qwertypie on 09-29-09 at 05:47 PM
And that would make you two even more irresistible
"RE: What was the point?"
Posted by Efjendar on 09-28-09 at 06:21 PM
That was sweeeet that the Yoga team got eliminated immediately. I was laughing & cheering the whole time. They came across cocky and had to go! Maybe the point was to satisfy our need for a desired/needed elimination???

"RE: What was the point?"
Posted by Tahj on 09-29-09 at 12:15 PM
Maybe the point was to satisfy our need for a desired/needed elimination???

Huh? I don't have that particular need or desire, especially in the first 10 minutes of the opening season episode. I'd like to at least see them in a full race.

While the Yoga team may have seemed cocky I still think they could have livened up things and could have been fun to watch.


It's a Tribe!

"RE: What was the point?"
Posted by featherfish81 on 10-01-09 at 11:13 PM
I think I would rather have seen them than Lance/Keri. The bully/tagalong has been done before, and no one liked it then. At least the yoga vegans would have been different (though, admittedly, if it continued in the "we set them free" vein, it would have gotten old quickly.)
"RE: What was the point?"
Posted by Molaholic on 09-28-09 at 06:25 PM
I have no answer to the WTP question, but I did get a double kick out of last night's show.

1) The Starting Line -- our lovely L.A. River -- was in a spot not too far from the school where I teach. The spot is also in the shadow of Dodger Stadium (another TAR starting point) and very close to the spot where James Whitmore did battle with the giant ants in the classic '50s SciFi classic THEM!.

2) The Tokyo Hotel -- as the teams were manning the mat to leave Tokyo I recognized the front of the hotel as the same one I stayed in when I went there two years ago.


Seana’s da bomb!

"RE: What was the point?"
Posted by Karchita on 09-28-09 at 08:57 PM
Thanks for expressing why I felt so dissatisfied after the show last night.

Yes, team yoga was hideous, but the team that beat them for last place, Mr. Obnoxious Trial Attorney and his whiny wife were no better and maybe worse. I would have been glad to see either of them go, but hated to see anyone eliminated so unfairly.

The poker girls, however, I was more than ready to see go and I thought they deserved it because they made more than one stupid mistakes and were bickering within hours of the race start. That may be a record.

*sigh* It can only get better from here, right?



"RE: What was the point?"
Posted by kingfish on 09-29-09 at 12:40 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-29-09 AT 03:10 PM (EST)

I like Maria Ho.

Don't know why.

I’ve seen Tiffany Michele on the Poker shows. I want to see her lose.

But I also thought that first elimination was a pointless twist. OK, I'm all for trying new things, and I don't expect them to all be winners. But an elimination before the start?

A reality lesson in "life is cruel, so eat it #####!", perhaps.

However I do like that the first leg was a non-elimination leg, it gives everyone a chance to settle down and get over the opening jitters without incurring the ultimate penalty. I even like that the first speed bump was relative slap on the hand. In effect the first leg becomes a warm up leg, which I think is good.

"RE: What was the point?"
Posted by jbug on 09-29-09 at 12:51 PM
I always knew you were a softie!
"I don't believe the non-elim legs"
Posted by IceCat on 09-29-09 at 05:20 PM

... are entirely fixed in the schedule.

As a general principle, they are but I think there is some latitude that may be applied in how/when they occur.

I think the producers may have discovered something odd in the behavior of the 'lost' lavender-hatted tourists. Note how, the camera operator didn't even manage to 'notice' the game changing moment and the only shot we got was a brief over the shoulder shot of the two missing tourists.

I think two of the locals decided to ditch the Americans who were taking up too much of their vacation time with a seemingly pointless multi-mile walk across Tokyo. If you look closely at the hat people, you can see that some of them are pretty pissed off by the time they reached the end of the course.

Having a car randomly pack it in on the side of the road is different than sabotage on the part of one of the hired local performers so the producers made the call and 'abracadabra' *poof* 'non-elim leg!'

"RE: I don't believe the non-elim legs"
Posted by Estee on 09-29-09 at 05:45 PM
Possible... and it would explain the slapdash feel of the not-at-all-a-Speed Bump. No one's ever gotten a (known) save over an incompetent cabbie, but the Racers hire those on their own: when the producers paid for local talent which decided not to deliver...

I can see it happening as a CYA move, but it's going to complicate things later: the location of the NELs may not be fixed, but the number is -- and a set task for later on now has to be modified or discarded.

"RE: I don't believe the non-elim legs"
Posted by kingfish on 09-30-09 at 08:59 AM
Very interesting theory/observation, and I like the thought that they could be that flexible and original. But I'd have to say that the odds were against it.

The producers had from the time that the cameraman alerted the producers that two tourists were missing to alert the decision maker of the problem and to come up with a plan B.

So that would have given them an hour or two to decide that making that leg a non elim. was feasible and to devise a speed bump penalty.

Then they would have had to find a soup stand, make an agreement with them, find a dock master, get him up to speed, and assemble the packets.

It is possible, they may have used a local guy that they had dealt with as part of the production process, and that Pho thing was a weak penalty. But the packet would have to be mostly generated on the spot, a speed bump using Pho could have only been used on that leg.

Surely they have contingency planning for some possibilities, mostly medical I would think, or maybe family emergency drop outs, and maybe they had a ready made plan B for this occasion.

But if they didn't, then to risk a complete flub up with last minute scrambling with the only goal to keep the pokeher players from being penalized by an unjust event seems unlikely. If the producers did manage to pull this off, they deserve the Emmy.

If they did have an on the spot Speed bump in their back pocket for emergency use, I would imagine that they would use the tried and true "We'll take your money" or their back packs or something like that. Even the Pho bump was more a elaborate penalty than they needed.

And, if they did this, they opened themselves up to accusations of favoritism and of influencing the outcome of the race. There are a lot of conspiracy theories out there anyway, I would imagine they wouldn't want to risk offering blatant proof of one.

Finally: If Maria and Tiffany want to put their flirting to good use, they need to charm the cameraman who spotted the runaways. He's the guy that could have helped then the most.

"One hour? How about almost two days!"
Posted by IceCat on 09-30-09 at 11:57 PM
LAST EDITED ON 10-01-09 AT 00:16 AM (EST)

All they had to do in Tokyo was decide to have a non-elim and a speed bump and they had an hour to make that decision. They had almost two days to put the speed bump together.

The Poker girls departed at 3:22 AM with a two hour penalty that means they hit the mat the day before at 1:22 PM. If you include the hour that you alluded to for camera person provided alert that means they were aware of the situation at approx 12:22 PM. All they have to do is decide whether or not the girls are eliminated during that hour because they have a buttload of time to come up with a speed bump.

They had the 12 hour layover in Tokyo, the two hour penalty, the waiting time at the airport, the flight from Tokyo to Ho Chi Minh city, the taxi ride to the bus station the wait for the bus to leave and that took them to 3:30 PM Vietnam time or 5:30 PM Japan time. That's already 28 hours from the time the poker girls hit the mat in Tokyo.

Then they had the bus ride and the sleep over on the docks waiting for the 7:00 AM opening time for the boat docks. Notice that the teams were shown eating at dockside soup stands that same night ('how convenient' the producers must have exclaimed). This actually supports the idea that the soup challenge was a thrown together, impromptu thing done to allow for an unscheduled non-elim.

So 7:00 AM (Vietnam) is 9:00 AM (Japan) that's over 44 hours after they hit the Tokyo pit stop. Almost two days!

And all they could come up with was go to the soup stand half a block up the road, get some soup ingredients, make some some soup. I think they were assuming that that their might be some errors making the soup and that they would have to return several times to the stand for more ingredients. According to Maria's voice over, she was already very familiar with that particular soup and had made it many times before so... wham, bam, thanks for the soup, ma'am and they were done.

IMHO Amazing Race should lose it's emmy for not being ale to come up with a better challenge task given so much time. The Survivor crew could have built a giant ferris wheel out of telephone poles, hung exploding fire cauldrons in it, painted it in a culturally significant color scheme, and completed all of their stand-in cut-away sequence photography in the time it took the Not-So-Amazing Race hacks to put a tray of soup ingredients together.

To be fair... Survivor only has to worry about one location and they set up a small city's worth of support/construction staff on site... but still.

"great line, Icey"
Posted by jbug on 10-01-09 at 08:59 AM

wham, bam, thanks for the soup, ma'am

I know that is code and I'm putting it in the book.

"RE: What was the point?"
Posted by zorayah on 09-30-09 at 07:49 PM
Poor tourists. They were yelled at, dragged to their feet and used. These are mostly retired, middle aged people who was suppose to have fun!! Whoever thought of this idea was in poor, poor taste.
"Well said!"
Posted by IceCat on 10-01-09 at 00:24 AM

I used to feel bad for the poor people they would Shanghai off the street in Hollywood onto a bus bound for Burbank just to go sit in a hot studio watching a drunken Orson Welles mumble his way through card tricks on the Merv Griffin show.

These poor Japanese folk had it much worse.

"RE: Well said!"
Posted by kingfish on 10-01-09 at 09:59 AM
I didn't know they had all that time to get the props together and sort out the details. And there’s no denying both the soup deal and the soup judge were suspiciously convenient, and that the speed bump wasn't as rigorous as one would expect for TAR. Further, the whole scenario for the change to non-elimination is plausible.

But as to the technicalities, they still only had from the time the cameraman alerted the producers of the problem (assuming that's how it happened) to the time the girls hit the mat to conclude that the change in plans was feasible and to make the decision. In order to decide it was feasible one would think they had to layout the overall plan in that time, and even the details. In one or two hours it is possible that they could do that, given sufficient motivation, daring, and imagination.

And it would involve (to me) admirable problem solving.

Well, maybe they did. It did seem kinda ad hoc. I can see the producers not wanting to have one of the more entertaining couples eliminated so soon. When they do get eliminated, I hope the interviewer asks them what they thought about this, and whether the speed bump clue was hand written on the back of a sandwich wrapper, or something.


"The lack of footage"
Posted by IceCat on 10-01-09 at 10:19 AM

... shown for the poker girls' crossing the crazy intersection is very suspicious. I think the fact that the editors provided only a very brief shot of the wayward pair of tourists indicates that that something was very fishy about their behavior.

I think the camera person caught them ditching the tour and reported it to the producers via cell phone. The producers realized that two locals that they had hired had just screwed a team over so they had to do something. Rather than redo the Tokyo challenge which would have taken a huge amount of time and a whole new crowd of unsuspecting tourists, they decided to let it stand but then let the losers off the hook.

"RE: What was the point?"
Posted by kingfish on 10-01-09 at 09:34 AM
Sorry for the tourists?

They may not have known the full extent of what they were getting into, but presumably they volunteered. May have even been paid.

Besides, walking is what tourists do.