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Original Message
"'We're not angry at ourselves because we cheated...'"
Posted by Estee on 03-30-09 at 05:55 AM
'...we're angry at the producers because they're punishing us for it!' Could you ask for a better attitude from Mark & Michael? Don't bother, because this is the only one they're giving you: they ran a perfect leg and anyone who says differently is discriminating against them. Yep: completely flawless run. You won't find a dram of remorse or atom of self-doubt anywhere in their perfect pile of self-generated bull.

Let's take this a little further. Shall we lay some of the blame for Marge's heatstroke at their feet? Maybe she wouldn't have expended so much effort if she'd been pulling a rickshaw that had good tires. Certainly slowed her down, which was their intent. It could have really slowed her down. As in 'stopped. forever.' Heatstroke can kill. Think they'd feel a twinge of questioning about their tactics then? Or just 'One more team out! And at least we didn't have to watch them check in and take our prize...'

Very charming. Very strategic, I'm sure. And as far as these two are concerned, I'm very done.

Table of contents
Messages in this discussion
"RE: 'We're not angry at ourselves because we cheated...'"
Posted by LibraRising on 03-30-09 at 09:18 AM
Yup. They should have gotten a much bigger penalty than 30 minutes. What did the Romber lot get for skipping the roadblock that time? Four hours?

And any shot at redemption was lost when they showed their racist side once again with the "ching chong" talk while pulling the rickshaw.

Ugh. Too bad the tiger didn't go all Roy on them.

"RE: 'We're not angry at ourselves because we cheated...'"
Posted by Estee on 03-30-09 at 09:23 AM
I was waiting for someone else to bring up the 'ching chong' routine: I wasn't sure if that was its own thread or not.

Regardless, I think the short jokes can now be unleashed without worry or guilt.

"RE: 'We're not angry at ourselves because we cheated...'"
Posted by Prof_ Wagstaff on 03-30-09 at 09:33 AM
Regardless, I think the short jokes can now be unleashed without worry or guilt.

Okay. Here's the best one.

Short People


14 Carrot Sig by Tribephyl

"RE: 'We're not angry at ourselves because we cheated...'"
Posted by Estee on 03-30-09 at 09:38 AM
Mark & Michael are so short, they're the only things below their own standards.
"RE: 'We're not angry at ourselves because we cheated...'"
Posted by Prof_ Wagstaff on 03-30-09 at 09:45 AM
When Phil finally checked them in, they gave each other a low-five.
"RE: 'We're not angry at ourselves because we cheated...'"
Posted by Belle Book on 03-30-09 at 11:42 AM
Mark & Michael are so short, they make Dandrew look really tall.


"RE: 'We're not angry at ourselves because we cheated...'"
Posted by Tazluli on 03-30-09 at 09:34 AM
I liked them in the beginning. Even last week's lvoe list I ranked them higher than some. But last night took the cake.

They are awful human beings with no sense of honor.

"RE: 'We're not angry at ourselves because we cheated...'"
Posted by mindy23 on 03-30-09 at 01:03 PM
Just to be fair here: Victor's sister wanted to do the same thing with the cab, right? I didn't even know it was against the rules until Victor said so. As far as the pumps-have we seen other teams try to jeapordize the people behind them? It seems like we have-I'm not pointing any blame, because I honestly can't remember. But is there a huge difference in THAT and paying your taxi driver to cut off another team? Or yelling at him so loudly he can't think, so he'll speed up, basically put his life and everyone around him on the line, so you can get there faster?? I dunno. At least that what I was thinking at the time. Maybe I am a scumster, too. I don't think I would have done what they did, just because of my OWN personal morals, but it seems that many before them have done some pretty petty crap-can someone help me out here?

Anyway, another point: Were they there when Marge collapsed? Would they have even figured out that THEY could have caused that somehow? I mean, running in the hot city-duh, you gotta drink water! No one else got that heated or sick, so why would they automatically think that it was THEIR fault that she got dehydrated and over-heated?

Not to take any blame away from them, but I also think there are 2 sides here. They're tired of coming in almost last, and I just don't see them doing much of anything else that hasn't been done before-it's not like they set a trap that someone was sure to fall in and break a leg with. They mixed up the pumps to add time to the route, was my impression.

Just wondering if they really are the evil midgets that they are being paired as? At least they weren't screaming at the man in the apothecary store, the taxi cab driver, and calling everyone in the city a moron....just my thoughts for the day. Take or leave 'em. Just don't tell me to shut up-it's the rules. LOL.

"RE: 'We're not angry at ourselves because we cheated...'"
Posted by Starshine on 03-30-09 at 03:17 PM
Shut up Mindy

I half agree with you, I didn't see that much difference between what they did and most of Boston Robs antics.

However whilst I can forgive them hiding the pumps I really have problems with the unthinking racism. Although even then they were outdone by the redheads who seemed to feel that anyone who isn't American is inferior, pity poor SDG if he happened to hail from a different country, they wouldn't be so accepting then.

J Slice what a cool lady

Just another Sleeperbloke

Something or Other


"RE: 'We're not angry at ourselves because we cheated...'"
Posted by shimane22 on 03-30-09 at 05:10 PM
No, I think Tammy and Victor were just explaining to Bandit that they would meet him at such-and-such location but that they couldn't follow him there. I don't think Tammy misread the clue.
"RE: 'We're not angry at ourselves because we cheated...'"
Posted by Tazluli on 03-31-09 at 02:38 PM
I see where you are coming from. When I say they do not have a sense of honor, I am talking about putting the pumps away, "Ching Chonging" down the street, etc.

I can't really blame them for Margie passing out. We don't know if she drank enough water. It could have happened without M&M hiding the pumps. She was doing the running. Maybe she should have let Luke run more. I am sure it is hard not to be able to communicate with your partner, but maybe she should have let him try more.

For the lvoe list this week I struggled who to put last and I ended up putting M&M. When all is said and done M&M and Jamie and/or Cara are pretty awful people.

"RE: 'We're not angry at ourselves because we cheated...'"
Posted by shimane22 on 03-30-09 at 05:08 PM
I partially fault the producers regarding Margie's condition... I totally agree with slapping Mark and Michael with a penalty for messing with the tools, but someone on the production staff should have laid them out again before the other teams arrive. Having the teams pull that much weight for two miles in such heat with flat tires was irresponsible.
"RE: 'We're not angry at ourselves because we cheated...'"
Posted by featherfish81 on 03-30-09 at 09:08 PM
Was it written in the clue that they might have to pump up the tires? Because it seemed like Mark&Michael were the only ones who checked, and the pumps were still there, just in a box.

I'm not saying they shouldn't have gotten a penalty, I'm just surprised that they were the only ones to think to check the tires.

"RE: 'We're not angry at ourselves because we cheated...'"
Posted by PsychoKitty on 03-31-09 at 03:32 PM
Hi! I don't remember the clue stating anything about the tires. I believe because they saw the pumps on the ground it made them think to look at the tires, and then they saw the flat one. That's what I remember.

So it never occurred to the other teams to double check the equipment/rickshaws.

Not that I have an opinion one way or another ;)
Signature by tribephyl

"RE: 'We're not angry at ourselves because we cheated...'"
Posted by shimane22 on 03-30-09 at 05:12 PM
Yeah, watching Mark and Michael gripe about coming in third after they broke the rules was pretty pathetic... they should be grateful they weren't eliminated!
"RE: 'We're not angry at ourselves because we cheated...'"
Posted by Spider on 03-31-09 at 02:47 AM
I think the midgets should have been eliminated.

Why? It was the first time i have seen actual malice from a team to screw others up. Yes other teams should have read the clue but the pumps were hidden in the box, not laid out next to the bikes like the friggin midgets were.

I reckon the midgets knew the clues just thought they could get away with it visa vie, taxi leading. I mean Victor read the clue, even the girls (somehwat suspiciously) knew it.

With malice, i personally believe the last team, Mel and Mike, should have gone through and at least have the midgets do another task or something.

Regarding margie and Luke (hahah Luke enjoyed the elephants thats for sure) why was she so dehyrdated? Im sure no where in the clue did it say you couldnt drink water and Phuket has millions of little stores everywhere to buy it. Its like 20 baht, about 20 cents in UC currency, if that. Also pump up a tire.

Midgets got off easy!!!

"RE: 'We're not angry at ourselves because we cheated...'"
Posted by Colonel Zoidberg on 03-31-09 at 06:52 AM
Dehydration hits you pretty suddenly, at least as far as the fainting goes...throw in heat stroke, and the fact that they're under a ton of stress, and that probably factored into her collapse.

I'm guessing Luke's not an EMT for a living - he got the hell out of the way and didn't even try to help, but Phil was all over the situation. Luke probably did the right thing, but it still looked a little odd - maybe production told him to stand back?

As far as the stunt brothers go...well, yes, they're jerks for doing that, and they're a little mouthy. I missed the racist remarks, but even without them...

"RE: 'We're not angry at ourselves because we cheated...'"
Posted by mindy23 on 03-31-09 at 05:39 PM
I actually missed those racist remarks, too. Thanks for pointing that out. They really ARE jerky!!! Not that I didn't think they were, for hiding the pumps, etc. I just wondered where the penalties came from, when I never heard anyone say anything about them, except that Victor told his sister that the driver couldn't lead them....

I know in other episodes, I have seen people purposely tell the airline ticket people NOT to give others good rates, the same flight, etc. So, my concern is, what is the differece? Is it that they are trying to bribe someone other than actually handling equipment? I suppose so, huh? I've never actually seen any of the personell take them up on their bribes or antics, as far as I can remember, anyway.


"RE: 'We're not angry at ourselves because we cheated...'"
Posted by Snidget on 03-31-09 at 06:50 PM
Did anyone ever get a time penalty for things like canceling the cabs other racers had reserved and those antics?
"RE: 'We're not angry at ourselves because we cheated...'"
Posted by vince3 on 03-31-09 at 06:55 PM
I don't think they did, because it backfired and their own cab got cancelled as well....
"RE: 'We're not angry at ourselves because we cheated...'"
Posted by Spider on 03-31-09 at 09:20 PM
I think the main reason they were penalised this time is that a team actually 'messed with' or ' altered' what the organisers had laid out.

Other times, such as airport tickets, it was up to the staff to decide, not the teams, but this time, the teams physically altered the race.

I live in Singapore and have done the Phuket Triathlon a few times. Let me tell you a flat tire in that heat makes a difference.

Like I said i think in this case teams that play fair like Mel and Mike should be given another chance.

"RE: 'We're not angry at ourselves because we cheated...'"
Posted by mindy23 on 04-13-09 at 02:19 AM
I SO agree that Mel and Mike should have been given another chance, and look at tonight-have they learned ANYTHING??

But also, what about Marge (I think it was) having the cab driver-maybe it was the screaming red-head cheerleader, give the WRONG directions for the Sister's team, and they ended up going the wrong direction. Shouldn't THAT be against the rules, too??

I am just SO FED UP with these players at this point! Don't even get me started........I may have to start a totally new post just to vent.

"RE: 'We're not angry at ourselves because we cheated...'"
Posted by featherfish81 on 04-13-09 at 03:50 PM
I'm not sure that that actually happened, that was just what the sisters thought. But they never showed Margie telling the cab driver to do it. And when the sisters left and their cab was still there she was just confused as to why they were leaving.
"RE: 'We're not angry at ourselves because we cheated...'"
Posted by PsychoKitty on 04-13-09 at 07:25 PM
Exactly - I think it was the sister's interpretation of what happened. What DID happen is that Margie asked her cab driver not to share the NEW info he had learned. And then they left after the sisters pulled out and went the right way.

Not that I have an opinion one way or another ;)
Signature by tribephyl

"Put bluntly."
Posted by Estee on 04-13-09 at 02:14 AM
They're really having trouble with this whole 'rulebook' concept, aren't they?
"RE: Put bluntly."
Posted by vince3 on 04-13-09 at 05:30 AM
Obviously. They still have 3:10 to serve of the 4 hours left, to boot. They need a flight bunch point to give them a chance.
"Question?"
Posted by true on 04-13-09 at 07:45 AM
I can't stand the little weasels either, but when did it become against the rules for teams to use personal posessions as payment? I seem to recall some team giving away their shoes, and I'm sure there have been other examples over the seasons.
"RE: Question?"
Posted by mrc on 04-13-09 at 08:12 AM
I thought the same thing. Wasn't it just last season that someone did that?

A Slice of Manga

"RE: Question?"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 04-13-09 at 09:43 AM
Yes. Dandrew bought shoes with their TAR per-diem money, which is within the rules, and these shoes were later used to settle a taxi bill.

The difference is that M&M used something they brought into the game as a bartering tool, which is against the rules. If it were okay, what's stopping teams in the future from stocking up on Rolex watches or other expensive items to trade in wherever they go?

The producers need to create an even playing field from the start of the game. Whatever teams do with the money they get during the game is fair game for bartering since everyone gets the same amount at the start of each leg.

"RE: Question?"
Posted by mrc on 04-13-09 at 11:03 AM
Ah. That makes sense.

I'm a mAGMANimous ruler

"RE: Question?"
Posted by mindy23 on 04-13-09 at 08:13 AM
My husband and I were wondering the same thing! We remember seeing other teams do that. Now, could it be that it was ok when you were a non-elimination who came in last, and unlike this year, you had to leave all your possessions behind and just make do with whatever you could to get to the next location? I don't know, but I do know for darned sure that other teams have done this!!


"RE: Question?"
Posted by jbug on 04-13-09 at 08:16 AM
Wasn't it DanDrew who had to buy new shoes? and then one of them tried to pay the cabbie with his? but the cabbie didn't want his stinkin shoes?
So maybe it's only against the rules if the cabbie accepts the personal property as payment?

Or? Phil just needed a way to get those two at the end of the line - hopefully they'll be last again next week.


Every day is Spring with Agman

"RE: Question?"
Posted by Estee on 04-13-09 at 09:34 AM
There's always been some limits. Otherwise, Racers would turn themselves into walking low-cost jewelry stores and trade bangles for services at every stop, or just hit any pawnshop within sight.

I think the general rule is that anything purchased along the route with the allotted leg funds is fair game for sale, but anything you started out with can't be traded or turned in.

"RE: Question?"
Posted by olathejoe on 04-13-09 at 10:13 AM
I loved it when they were explaining why they had to break the rules, which almost sounded sincere (didn't want to screw the locals out of money they had earned) and the editing of Phil glaring 'down' at them and not even responding.
"RE: Put bluntly."
Posted by nailbone on 04-13-09 at 11:15 AM
what gets me is that they PAID the taxi driver, albeit with personal possessions, and got penalized, while the sisters begged for and got a FREE taxi ride and no penalty.


"RE: Put bluntly."
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 04-13-09 at 11:23 AM
Yeah but the taxi driver didn't have to accept the girls' pleading for a freebie - he could have just said "screw ya, pay up."
"RE: Put bluntly."
Posted by KMan on 04-13-09 at 12:34 PM
Why is the penalty getting tacked on at the beginning of the next leg? It seems to me like they should be able to ride it out at the end of the previous leg. It's not their fault that the producers create massive bunching.
"RE: Put bluntly."
Posted by newsomewayne on 04-13-09 at 12:40 PM
Because this is essentially the same as the penalty being applied to the end of this leg. Had there been more teams besides the two sisters on the course, they would have had to wait for them to be checked in before the brothers could check in. As it was, after the sisters checked in, there was no reason for Phil and Token Local to stand around another three hours while the brothers lounged on the grass.


Fear the reaper.
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." - Margaret Thatcher

"RE: Put bluntly."
Posted by Snidget on 04-13-09 at 01:14 PM
Yep, I figured Phil didn't want to hang around another three of hours and I dunno it really matters if they sit out the three hours at the mat or with everyone else in the pitstop area.

They leave 4 hours later than they originally stepped on the mat either way.

"RE: Put bluntly."
Posted by HobbsofMI on 04-13-09 at 02:47 PM
Now they get three more hours at the pit stop to sleep, eat, plan, etc.


GO WINGS! 2008 Stanley Cup Champs!
sig JSlice and by IceCat, and bobble head by Tribephyl

"RE: Put bluntly."
Posted by Snidget on 04-13-09 at 03:12 PM
Read the rule book.
"RE: Put bluntly."
Posted by Estee on 04-13-09 at 04:54 PM
Let's not get crazy here.
"RE: Put bluntly."
Posted by newsomewayne on 04-13-09 at 12:41 PM
Yeah but the taxi driver didn't have to accept the girls' pleading for a freebie - he could have just said "screw ya, pay up."

Or vice versa.


Fear the reaper.
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." - Margaret Thatcher

"RE: Put bluntly."
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 04-13-09 at 03:34 PM
If it was a case of the rider saying "screw ya" and not paying, then call in the cops to arrest the rider for not paying -- isn't that what happened in Africa to Colin?
"RE: Put bluntly."
Posted by Estee on 04-13-09 at 04:53 PM
Pretty much. (Colin Vs. The Donut was my episode, so it's still fairly vivid.)
"Question About How Much Money They Had"
Posted by samboohoo on 04-13-09 at 01:24 PM
I could be mistaken, but I thought during the first cab ride, the meter read something like $685, putting them about $200 short. They told the cab driver they only had $00 and bartered. Then when they got into the next cab, they told the driver, they only had $200.

So were they really $200 short on the first cab? Something doesn't add up to me.

*smooches Agman*


"RE: Question About How Much Money They Had"
Posted by vince3 on 04-13-09 at 01:31 PM
The 685 might be in the Thai currency, which might not be 1:1 to the US$..........
"RE: Question About How Much Money They Had"
Posted by jbug on 04-13-09 at 01:33 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-13-09 AT 01:34 PM (EST)

I think on the first cab, they lied (gasp!) to the driver so as not to have to give him all their cash, and he agreed to take less. Then for the next one, they had the $200 they held back from the first driver.
Makes their story on the mat about "wanting to be sure to pay the cab drivers what they owed them" and bit of a farce doesn't it.


Every day is Spring with Agman

"RE: Question About How Much Money They Had"
Posted by HobbsofMI on 04-13-09 at 02:49 PM
Yep...could have paid off the first one and then begged for a free ride.


GO WINGS! 2008 Stanley Cup Champs!
sig JSlice and by IceCat, and bobble head by Tribephyl

"RE: Question About How Much Money They Had"
Posted by featherfish81 on 04-13-09 at 03:55 PM
Or during the bartering process the cabbie agreed to take less cash because one of the other items was worth more.
"Their perspective."
Posted by Estee on 04-21-09 at 09:44 AM
Innocent after proven guilty.

http://tinyurl.com/c6m6js

Idiots.

"RE: Their perspective."
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 04-21-09 at 10:14 AM
That made my head hurt.

Mike: I believe it was about a half-an-hour before our elimination that we arrived after Jaime and Cara at the Pit Stop.

"RE: Their perspective."
Posted by olathejoe on 04-21-09 at 11:16 AM
Did anyone else notice at the 'who is in a fowl mood' detour, the older one said something like "it must have to do with fish, because fowl is fish." or did I hear that wrong?
"RE: Their perspective."
Posted by PlumBlossom on 04-21-09 at 01:09 PM
I also heard that and laughed at her.


an IceCat original

"RE: Their perspective."
Posted by Estee on 04-21-09 at 05:01 PM
I know. If that's the way they usually treat the language, it's no wonder they can't figure out a rulebook they're carrying with them and can reference at any time.
"RE: Their perspective."
Posted by nerovh on 04-21-09 at 05:08 PM
Geez, what humanitarians these two are. Glad they're gone.
"RE: Their perspective."
Posted by Belle Book on 04-21-09 at 06:54 PM
I'm pretty glad to see them go. They were generally clueless and my least favorite team in the Race.


"RE: Their perspective."
Posted by olathejoe on 04-23-09 at 12:06 PM
I finally figured out who they reminded me of. Kevin Kline's character Otto in the movie "A Fish Called Wanda" He was always reading classic literature (War and Peace), and tried acting like a real intelectual, but when someone would try to explain something marginally complicated to him he would get all confused and was always asking "what was that middle part again?"
"RE: Their perspective."
Posted by J Slice on 04-24-09 at 12:40 PM
My all time favorite movie. And one of my all time favorite characters.

Wanda: But you think you're an intellectual, don't you, ape?
Otto: Apes don't read philosophy.
Wanda: Yes they do, Otto, they just don't understand it! Let me correct you on a few things; Aristotle was not Belgian! The central message of Buddhism is not "Every man for himself!" And the London Underground is not a political movement! Those are all mistakes. I looked them up.

IceCat frellin' rocks.

"Interference"
Posted by samboohoo on 04-27-09 at 02:13 PM
Certainly not taking up for Mark/Mike, but they were penalized for interfering with other racers for putting the pumps in the boxes. If I recall, didn't the clue state something about using a pump? So the teams should have known to look for one?

Last night we saw Tammy and Victor (1)direct someone else's cab driver to take them to a wrong entrance and (2) ask airline crew to deliberately seat someone in the back of a plane.

How is that really different from Mark and Mike interferring? And they clearly had a language advantage.


Samboobree, brought to life by Arkie


"RE: Interference"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 04-27-09 at 02:36 PM
Good question. We've seen teams over the years exhort ticket agents to not give other teams a seat on a flight.

I think the difference is that the interference by M&M was physical in nature and potentially affected the health of others. Then again, while asking airline crew to deliberately seat others in the back isn't a physical interference such that it'd affect health of others, directing the cab driver to drive to the wrong entrance would have a way of physically wearing out other teams from taking longer to get around (like M&M did with the bike pumps).

Perhaps we'll see something about this at the end of the next leg -- remember, this is a superleg, the leg isn't finished yet and they haven't reached an actual pit stop. Hopefully Phil will penalize Tammy/Victor then.


Stinky Musings <--- blog's been updated!

"RE: Interference"
Posted by featherfish81 on 04-27-09 at 11:00 PM
I think the other difference was that they didn't force the agent or driver to do anything, they just asked.
"RE: Interference"
Posted by olathejoe on 04-28-09 at 10:03 AM
Did they direct the taxi to the wrong entrance or (the way I understood) did they just not tell him the north entrance?
"RE: Interference"
Posted by jbug on 04-28-09 at 02:30 PM
I don't think T & V directed the other cab to the wrong entrance. Tammy told Victor to "look the other way" (away from the others) so as to not draw attention that they themselves were 'not stopping' at that entrance. They didn't want the others to see that they were going to a different entrance.

The thing about the tickets has been done again and again. Asking agents to not have any more tickets; or to seat someone in the back, etc.

Some examples that might incur a penalty:
Not taking turns on the diving boards as they were supposed to do. If T & V had been rushing to get in front of the sisters and not allowing them a turn, that would be penalty worthy. However, they asked the sisters if they were ready to take their turn; the sisters told them to go ahead.

If a team were to move a clue box - or move something in front of a clue box to make it less noticeable (laughing about how often they walk within inches of one and still don't see it).