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Original Message
"It's okay to bash the deaf kid."
Posted by Prof_ Wagstaff on 03-09-09 at 12:51 PM
LAST EDITED ON 03-09-09 AT 01:37 PM (EST)

Come on I know you want to do it.

How does a person make it through 4 years of college and not have at least heard come across the name Chekhov? I thought for sure he was going to throw himself on the ground and have a good old kicking and screaming temper tantrum.

What an spoiled, ill-tempered mama's boy. I wonder how long he'll be living in Margie's basement. I'll be doing the happy dance when they are finally sent off to the Elimination Station.

edited because Estee's point below is very well taken. *slaps own head* twice*


Into the magna tribe by phyl

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Messages in this discussion
"RE: It's okay to bash the deaf kid."
Posted by Estee on 03-09-09 at 01:19 PM
How does a person make it through 4 years of college and not have at least heard the name Chekhov?

deaf
adj. deaf·er, deaf·est
1. Partially or completely lacking in the sense of hearing.
2. Deaf Of or relating to the Deaf or their culture.
3. Unwilling or refusing to listen; heedless: was deaf to our objections.
n. (used with a pl. verb)
1. Deaf people considered as a group. Used with the.
2. Deaf The community of deaf people who use American Sign Language as a primary means of communication. Used with the.

Possibly should have used 'come across' there.

"RE: It's okay to bash the deaf kid."
Posted by LibraRising on 03-09-09 at 01:41 PM
Ha!

Though I was wondering, and perhaps someone with a better understanding might have the answer...

Obviously, Luke learned the alphabet from a different vantage point than most of us, as we were basically taught what the different letters sound like. So while the other teams who've apparently never sat through a production of "The Seagull" could kind of figure out the combination of letters that sounded right, wouldn't it make more sense that it would be more difficult for him to pick out of thin air (and thus be potentially more frustrating)?


A kyngsladye klassic with an IceCat chaser

"RE: It's okay to bash the deaf kid."
Posted by Snidget on 03-09-09 at 01:32 PM
Liberal Arts college, or a University where you can be more specialized? What major? Which type of degree?

There are lots of ways to get through college and avoid exposure to whole large areas of knowledge. A lot depends on what degree program and what college/university you go to.

I have a B.A. as I went to a small liberal arts college and I had a lot more exposure to the humanities than some of the people I know that have a B.S. from a larger university where, depending on the program, they didn't have many required or elective courses taken outside of the part of the University they were in.

I liked being required to take a lot of courses across the board, but some people don't want to waste time on that stuff so will find a program with a much narrower focus.

Although I contend you should at least know of that name from high school literature courses. Although I went to a rather unusual high school based on what I knew my freshman year of college compared to a lot of my peers.


Normund Invasion by Agman

"RE: It's okay to bash the deaf kid."
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 03-09-09 at 04:00 PM
LAST EDITED ON 03-09-09 AT 04:31 PM (EST)


*cracks knuckles*

Well, if you knew anything at all about the Deaf culture, it's understandable.

Rochester Institute of Technology (where Luke went) is a technical university - most Deaf graduates from there do not study any form of English, but rather are taught in American Sign Language by Deaf professors in a variety of computer technology or technical mathematics programs. There aren't too many English-based 'theory' courses offered under the National Technical Institute of the Deaf division of R.I.T..

As well, the majority of Deaf people simply do not develop the English skills (or have the patience) to read something such as Chekhov or even Shakespeare - most Deaf people I know has never read a single Shakespeare story, so it's not likely they'd have read Chekhov either. Ask ten Deaf people and they'll be hard-pressed to name ONE Shakespeare title besides "Romeo and Juliet". A large number of Deaf people grew up in an institutionalized environment where they are surrounded in American Sign Language 24/7, and they don't usually master English...ever.

We don't pick up on names the same way as hearing people do, nor do we typically know how such names would be sounded out. I'm surprised, actually, that Luke got the name relatively quickly. There were others in the race who didn't know who Chekhov was either, but I don't see you putting them down.

Hell, I haven't read Chekhov myself. And of the three co-workers who are also professors in my division, I can almost guarantee you that two of them prolly have never heard of Anton Chekhov, and the third one might know who he is. My wife didn't know who Chekhov was either, and she's also a college grad. She doesn't know who most of the English/American/Canadian writers are, either.

Luke *is* a major-league whiner, I'll give you that. And it has nothing at all to do with him being Deaf.


I cringed while reading the title... "bash the deaf kid"?
I grew up being bashed endlessly by hearing people simply because I was Deaf.

"RE: It's okay to bash the deaf kid."
Posted by CTgirl on 03-09-09 at 04:25 PM
Thanks for the background Pepe, I was hoping you'd post in this thread and share your opinion.

Probably because of his hearing impairment, Luke seems somewhat sheltered and naive. He is whiny but I hope he outgrows that with maturity. I've said in another post, I think this race is a great experience for him. The editors focused on his frustration because they thought it was "good" TV. Like you said, other people didn't know who Chekhov was either. I wasn't too surprised Luke didn't know who he was, but I was surprised at how many others hadn't ever heard of him!


Top of the mornin' by O'Agman

"RE: It's okay to bash the deaf kid."
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 03-09-09 at 06:46 PM

>Probably because of his hearing impairment,
>Luke seems somewhat sheltered and naive.

That is absolutely not the case. He's whiny and sheltered because that's who he is, and it has nothing to do with him being Deaf. He's a candyass and he's MaryAdam part II (but at least Luke finished all of his tasks, unlike dear ol' Adam ).

(I'd like to mention that 'hearing impaired' is not a term we use at all in our community - the word 'impaired' has such a negative connotation like driving impaired, etc. Other meanings for the word 'impaired' that you'd find in a dictionary: diminished, damaged, weakened, functioning poorly or incompetently. The only terms we use in our community: deaf, Deaf, hard-of-hearing, deafened)


>The editors focused on his frustration because
>they thought it was "good" TV.

Agree with you on that one - I wanted to reach through the TV and tell him to shut up and just do the task the best as he could without getting all dramatic about it, just like I've wanted to reach out at a number of Racers in the past for being overly dramatic. But, yes, it makes for good TV to watch a meltdown of this proportion, just like it was good TV to watch Victor and Tammy's meltdown the previous episode.



"RE: It's okay to bash the deaf kid."
Posted by CTgirl on 03-09-09 at 08:24 PM
Got it, Pepe. Thanks.

"RE: It's okay to bash the deaf kid."
Posted by KeithFan on 03-11-09 at 06:21 PM
All that being said, Pepe, I was wondering about your take on his being a "role model" for other deaf people.

To me, someone like Christy from Survivor sure stands out a lot more than momma's boy.


"RE: It's okay to bash the deaf kid."
Posted by Snidget on 03-09-09 at 07:03 PM
I usually forget how different Sign Language is from English. Although it didn't occur to me that most are not fluent enough in written English to read literature like that.

I guess I was thinking there would be more emphasis on written communication and that would in part have to include some rather difficult reading.

I always found I gained fluency in reading other languages a lot faster than speaking or hearing it. It didn't occur to me that the deaf might have issues with reading English.

That being said, the hearing people I know in a lot of technical degrees would have avoided classes with Shakespeare and Chekhov like the plague.

"Well said, Pepe"
Posted by Molaholic on 03-09-09 at 07:27 PM
I too was counting on you to set us straight. Thanks.

English is a second language for Luke (as his Mom mentioned). I don't know how much phonemic awareness (if any) is used when Deaf children are learning to read, but I can imagine that it is quite a task. Given these facts, I wasn't surprised that Luke had difficulty.

Being familiar with the name "Chekhov" or not would have little to do with the decoding needed.

I'd like to find out more about the pedagogy used in teaching Deaf children to read -- I would think that the techniques used would be similar to those used in languages that don't have "sound-out" writing, such as Chinese, Korean, or Japanese.


Tribe made me. Thanks. An Agman salute MCMIX

"RE: It's okay to bash the deaf kid."
Posted by samboohoo on 03-10-09 at 09:23 AM
Well said, Pepe.

*smooches Agman*


"RE: It's okay to bash the deaf kid."
Posted by Max Headroom on 03-10-09 at 09:53 AM
Thanks for the explanation, Pepe.

My major complaint about Luke is that he's a whiny, bad-tempered kid, which is unrelated to him being deaf.


Headbanger by IceCat, siggie by agman

"RE: It's okay to bash the deaf kid."
Posted by Starshine on 03-10-09 at 10:10 AM
Ish. I think it is linked to him being deaf in that he is used to being the centre of attention with his Mother, and hasn't yet cut the apron strings.

Something or Other

Says the Starshine, whos Mother still thinks he is wonderful!


"RE: It's okay to bash the deaf kid."
Posted by Prof_ Wagstaff on 03-10-09 at 11:05 AM
LAST EDITED ON 03-10-09 AT 11:06 AM (EST)

Pepe, I too appreciate the explanation. So let me clarify a few things.

>There were others in the race who didn't know who Chekhov was either, but I don't see you putting them down.
I wasn't putting him down I was bashing him, that's what we do here. Now if what you really meant was There were others in the race who didn't know who Chekhov was either, but I don't see you singling them out, you are correct. I didn't because none of the other racers behaved like three year olds when they didn't know who Chekhov was. Luke displayed his typical way of dealing with frustration, he pules and whines.


>Luke *is* a major-league whiner, I'll give you that. And it has nothing at all to do with him being Deaf.
I completely agree with this, but I think that because he is deaf, he has been given a pass and been untouchable to a well deserved bashing. If he were a hearing person given to the same antics, there would have been a bashing thread about him long before this. He bears a lot in common to MaryAdam, although to be honest he's not even close to being as bad.


>I cringed while reading the title... "bash the deaf kid"?
I'm sorry the title made you cringe. It was not intended to be hurtful. But the title was not "Let's bash the deaf kid." I suppose I could have said "It's okay to bash Luke" but that seemed like skirting my real issue which was that it is just as insulting to not bash someone because they are deaf (ie. because you feel sorry for them) as it is to bash them because they are deaf. That is why I put his deafness right out front.

Still, given your experience, I apologize that the title was hurtful to you.

Edited for at least one spelling mistake.


Into the magna tribe by phyl