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Original Message
"Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"

Posted by Aruba on 08-27-10 at 08:35 PM
My interest, if any, for the remainder of this season is to see if or how much damage underdog Ragan can administer to the Brigade Three. Also, Lane made it clear in his DR confession that his alliance is to the Brigade and not Britney. Would like to see Lane in a position to be forced publically to choose and how devestating it would be for our Southrn Belle after being given a path to skate into the F4. What I'd LOVE to know is if Lane would be leaning more toward Britney if she entered the House as a "single" without that rock on her finger?

RAGAN - No one is even a close second this week. From being the first HG this season to figure out the Brigade through inspiration using his intelligence, to mentally replaying the entire season to prepare himself for a potentional competition (which was instrumental in his POV victory,) he's a no-brainer for #1 this week. If he followed Matt out the door last night, the remainder of this season would be Snoozeville. He's now in a "Brendon" mode--the first week he doesn't win HOH or POV comps, his game is over.

LANE - After looking like a complete JackA$$ on national TV with his bench press routine, I didn't think there'd be any way he could escape bottom ranking, but he was man enough to fess up to the phone call from home (something chickensh!t Hayden was incapable of.) Also a comical exchange with Britney asking if he's smart enough to be playing both sides of the House. That's like a mound of dirt asking a pile of rocks to measure its intelligence.
But through nothing more than osmosis, he's arguably in the best position. Conventional wisdom would dictate it's best for him not to win the next HOH, but with Ragan in the mix he probably should try. Ask Matt about not trying to win one competition.

BRITNEY - MEEEEERY CHRISTMAS, BRITNEY! Santa Brendon gave you an early Christmas present with his POV win (and HOH lost.) Although with the way she carried on in the HOH room immediately following Brendon's win, she didn't realize her potential good fortune. But forget her ignorance, being bamboozled by Lane is about as embarassing as losing a competition to Kathy. It sure doesn't speak volumes for Britney; but it doesn't take away from being the most entertaining character this season...or as Matt would say the most entertaining "evil sucky B!tch." Way too funny...Think Brit has Matt's vote???

ENZO - It was funny watching Enzo in a penguin costume, but a baby kangaroo would have been more appropriate because he's being carried. Yes carried...any player as simple-minded as Enzo who makes the F5 has been carried. Yes simple-minded...DUH, we didn't want to "split our votes." DUH! Geez Enzo, why not just say the "Brigade" (a 4-man alliance we formed on Day One) wants to vote as a majority? What a moron! But heck, if any of the Three Stooges win this season, I'd want it to be Enzo even though his shoe size is larger than his IQ.

HAYDEN - He's much more lying and greedy than Matt could ever be as evident on Wednesday night POV. "Cut the head off the snake," you say??? Try this line on for size..."Pigs get fat; hogs get slaughtered." If there's any justice (which is a lot to ask in the game of BB) would love to see you slaughtered. Bottomline, you wanted to eliminate a HG who you're afraid (and rightfully so) can outplay you. When you make statements like, "He's a tough competitor" and "He'll run away with this thing," I'd consider that fear. Chickensh!t.

GONZO

MATT - The irony is Matt was the most loyal Brigade member of them all. But forget the loyalty, the smirk, and his desparate plea by turning on Ragan...the reason he's out of the game is because A) he didn't try in the HOH competition, and B) Brendon won POV. Although those who consider competitions as mere side attractions are incapable of realizing those obvious facts. He was one of my favorites until he stopped trying (in the HOH comp) and that ultimately was his demise. I do give him credit for being a big enough man to admit that factual blunder.

BRENDON - His challenge run after Rachel's eviction changed the course of this game moreso than any other individual HG. His POV win broke up the 4-man alliance (without ever realizing it) AND created a clear path for Britney to the F4 with the inside track for the F2. Predictions I made BEFORE this week even began. It also caused Matt to scramble turning on Ragan in desparation, which resulted in Ragan figuring out the Brigade alliance and putting Ragan at the top of the Brigade hit list. Incredible chain reaction from one POV win.
As I stated last week...win you advance. Well you didn't win HOH and POV, so now you're gonzo.


I'll be away Wed, Thurs, and Fri this coming week so will probably miss those episodes. Consequently I will not post a list next week. And with the following weekend being the Finale, not sure if it would be worth posting one then. Thanks to all who contributed!


Table of contents

Messages in this discussion
"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by michel on 08-27-10 at 09:49 PM
"Although those who consider competitions as mere side attractions are incapable of realizing those obvious facts."

Are you calling me stupid? You seem incapable of understanding this game but I should just need to add another of your comments to explain it:

"Well you didn't win HOH and POV, so now you're gonzo."

Don't you see that no one should ever count on winning everything? That's my whole point. This game isn't about winning competitions. If you need to win one, you'll need to win them all and that simply never works.

Positioning is key. Lane doesn't need to win because he's very well positioned. Matt needed to win simply because he thought the Brigade was too stupid to see his lying, side-deal making ways. For a guy who wanted to play like Thailand's Brian he ended up being Ted!!!!

BTW, even if Brendon goes out at 7 then Hayden easily wins HOH and puts up Ragan and Matt. Ragan wins POV and Matt leaves anyway! Brendon winning POV only inverted the order Julie shook their hands, nothing more. So much for your grand prediction powers!

Now, after a very enjoyable turn of events, here is my list:

1- Lane: The Beast is in an excellent position. No matter who wins HOH and POV, he cannot leave this week. Just like he was never in danger the whole season. That is the smart way to play.

2- Enzo: He's still in control of the situation with both Hayden and Lane probably planning to take him to the end but he should have worn that penguin costume like a man!

3- Britney: Even if she was dumb not to see that Lane isn't with her, she made the right moves. Anyway, since she was able to make enough friends after a very shaky start, only now is the time she needs to step it up.

4- Hayden: Great job on winning HOH since Brendon was right behind him. I wonder though if Brendon wouldn't simply have nominated Ragan and Britney! I put him 4th because, with the jury talking to each other, I'm pretty sure they will know who is heading to Hawaii with 5 grand in his pocket.

Ragan: Yes, he figured out the Brigade. Does that make him smart? I'd say yes if he wasn't 50 days late! Yes, winning POV was key but that's because he put himself in a bad situation by acting emotionally after learning about the Brigade and Matt's role in it. A really smart player would have gone to Matt, Brendon and Britney and organized Enzo's eviction. That would have been like Cesternino going to Matt, Butch and Christy to vote out Alex. But, no Ragan was too upset with Matt. Now, his game is down the toilet. Some are incapable of realizing what it takes to be a good player!

Gone: Matt: I was as happy to see him go as I was to see Ronnie go last year. In the end, he was a very dumb player. I cannot believe he didn't think of outing the Brigade to save himself. It's like a drowning man refusing a life-vest.

Brendon: Dead-man-walking made it interesting for a while. Too bad he never figured how to flip the game.



Ils sont fous, ces Romains!
Thanks Tribe!


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by Aruba on 08-28-10 at 06:51 AM

>Are you calling me stupid?

Nope, not at all. Perhaps a tad bit stubborn to acknowlegde that sponging off others and relying on forces not TOTALLY within YOUR control is an advisable way to live one's life. And for those who argue...Golly Gee, it's only a game,...you are...who you are...who you are.
There are those who live their lives (whether in the real world or on Reality Shows) who are more proactive to take matters in their own hands and try to control their own fate. Those are the individuals I covet.
And there are those who are successful or not moreso by relaying on the actions of others. We'll always be on different sides of the fence on that one...but by no means does that make one side "stupid."


>Positioning is key. Lane doesn't need
>to win because he's very
>well positioned.

Lane's advancing to the F4 regardless of what happens this week. But if Ragan advances to the F4 and should win HOH, Lane's chances of making F3 is probably 50/50. Whereas if he can get Ragan out this week, he looks just as good at F4 as he does now at F5.


>BTW, even if Brendon goes out
>at 7 then Hayden easily
>wins HOH and puts up
>Ragan and Matt. Ragan wins
>POV and Matt leaves anyway!
>Brendon winning POV only inverted
>the order Julie shook their
>hands, nothing more. So much
>for your grand prediction powers!

Does Hayden win HOH easily??? You think Matt competing in that HOH would have been a non-factor? The HG even Hayden accurately acknowledged as a "tough competitor" and would "run away with this thing?" Lane assignment probably was the biggest factor in that HOH win making that competition virtually imossible to predict in a "what-if" scenario. I'm guessing it was by random draw. Does the draw stay EXACTLY the same with Brendon gone and Matt competing? Can't say that.

Matt was at risk because A) he was always sitting next to a Brigade member on the block, and B) he was nominated by a NON-Brigade member. Those factors (along with his loyalty) were main reasons he didn't out the Brigade. In your scenario a Brigade member (Hayden) puts up Matt when a non-Brigade member (Britney) remains unnominated. If Hayden does that, then Matt definitely severs the ties and calls them out. As much as the Brigade Three wanted to eliminate the HG "who would run away with this thing," it was equally (if not more) important to ensure their secrecy. For that reason I'm not sold on Ragan and Matt going up. And Ragan is a slam dunk POV winner even with Matt competing in that POV??? Don't think so, but nice try anyway.


>4- Hayden: ...with
>the jury talking to each
>other, I'm pretty sure they
>will know who is heading
>to Hawaii with 5 grand
>in his pocket.

If Hayden is sent to the Jury House, then yes they'll know. If not, Hayden will still deny it. If he makes F2, depending on who sits next to him, the greedy lying hypocrite could still get away with it.

>Ragan: ...A really
>smart player would have gone
>to Matt, Brendon and Britney
>and organized Enzo's eviction.

NOOOO way ANY plan Ragan cooked up would have ANY prayer of working if he had to involve Brendon. And bubble head Britney would NEVER have been sold on any suggestion that her financee look-alike Lane would have ANY alliance other than HER.


>Gone: Matt: ...In the
>end, he was a very
>dumb player. I cannot believe
>he didn't think of outing
>the Brigade to save himself.

AHHH...so now being loyal is being dumb. Whatever. Now if a Brigade member put Matt on the block leaving a non-Brigade member unnominated, then Matt was oblivious. But that didn't happen and if it did happen, Matt flips, sells out the Brigade, and the secret is no more.


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by michel on 08-28-10 at 01:55 PM
"live one's life"

That is the main difference between us. This isn't life, it is a game. Not only are people acting differently because they understand it's a game but also they are edited in a way to shape a story. Not as much in BB as in Survivor but still the live feeds show us that what we see on TV is not the exact truth.

Even pro athletes playing a game do not behave the same way in real life. Sure, there are many Mike Tysons out there but they are exceptions. More often, the toughest linemen are gentle in real life. Some of the biggest rivalries on the field translate to friendships once the game is over. A game is a game, nothing more.

"You think Matt competing in that HOH would have been a non-factor?"

Absolutely. Matt won two identical "competitions" where his small feet were key. Your idol didn't show me any athletic abilities at all. In a race, I saw how fast Hayden really is. If the challenge wasn't rigged, if all lanes were equal, Matt would have been a non-factor.


"And Ragan is a slam dunk POV winner even with Matt competing in that POV???"

Weren't you the one praising Ragan for memorizing the events? (even if others probably did so but weren't shown) Ragan could very well have won but, if Matt had won, it was simply another inversion of moves, Ragan going at 6, Matt at 5.

"I'm not sold on Ragan and Matt going up"

Who cares. Even if you're in denial, Matt was a goner.

"If Hayden is sent to the Jury House, then yes they'll know. If not, Hayden will still deny it. If he makes F2, depending on who sits next to him, the greedy lying hypocrite could still get away with it."

They think Matt cleaned up. Matt finally has nothing to lie for anymore so he should be able to convince them he didn't get anything. They know Brendon, Enzo and Britney didn't get anything and Lane has credibility for admitting the phone call. Can you subtract and find who is left?

Also, the biggest greedy, lying hypocrite this season was your idol who used his wife and a fake illness to get sympathy. Don't you remember that?

"NOOOO way ANY plan Ragan cooked up would have ANY prayer of working if he had to involve Brendon."

So it was better to sulk alone in his bedroom? That's what my sister used to do when she was 12. Talk about being pro-active!! You sure know how to pick your number 1!!!!!!

"AHHH...so now being loyal is being dumb"

Matt wasn't loyal, he never was. Didn't you hear him tell Julie he was trying to play both sides? Or do you just hear what you want to hear? He was counting on the Brigade being dumb enough to save him. They weren't. Your idol's grand schemes were based on the dumb assumption that the Brigade hadn't noticed he was playing only for numero uno and trying to use everyone in the house. A very satisfying ending.



Ils sont fous, ces Romains!
Thanks Tribe!


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by Aruba on 08-29-10 at 07:41 AM
> Professional athletes are NOT involved in a contest that goes on for 70 days. Sure there are short moments in EVERYONE'S life (real life or reality shows) when you may come across as something you're not...BUT NOT FOR THIS EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME.
A "game" is more than a game when it's an extension of one's life.

You are...who you are...who you are!!!!!


> The HOH Hayden won had everything to do with which boxes you happened to open up first with Matt and Rachel's name inside, not how fast you ran up the lane. Small feet???? I didn't think Matt's feet were smaller than Britney's? The surfboard yes, but the paint can NO. Feet size didn't matter as much as one's arms and upper body tiring out.


> I did give Ragan credit for memorizing events to win against the remaining HGs which did not include Matt. I would not have been surprised if it would have come to a tiebreaker between Matt and Ragan. I'm not saying Ragan would not have won; I'm saying with Matt playing POV I wouldn't assume a definitely Ragan win.


> All I'm saying is it would have been a monumental waste of time for Ragan to try to align with the "big dummy" and the "evil sucky B!tch." He was #1 FOR THE WEEK because that's how the ranking works...on a WEEKLY basis. And the ranking is comparing the remaining HGs. Sure it's ridiculous that it took someone 50 days for the lightbulb to go on. That's more of a relection on the continuing pathetic job Production does casting for the season...but COMPARED TO THE REMAINING HGs he figured it out first so that fact was intrumental in ranking Ragan #1 this week.


> Who cares if Hayden would have put up Matt and Ragan???
The Brigade for one, because if "Matt's a goner" as you predicted, then so is the Brigade. Matt would have outed them in that scenario.


> What I said (or meant to say) is Matt was the most loyal of all the Brigade members. What I heard him tell Julie is he was torn between both sides...not PLAYING both sides. And those sides were the Brigade and his "showmance."
To answer your question I DID hear what he told Julie (and not what I want to hear.) I specifically heard him call Britney an "evil sucky B!tch" and last week heard him call Brendon a "big dummy." Did YOU hear that??? As stated before with Ragan, any scheme involving Brendon and/or Brtiney would not have worked because no way was anyone going to wipe the skank of Rachel off Brendon and Britney come with 250 pounds of baggage. Heck, Matt's been carrying Lane in the Brigade...why cut him loose to carry him in another alliance?


>Matt just wanted to make F4 with the Brigade which was THEIR initial plan. At that point he felt confident he could steamroll them in the final compeitions. All four were fine with that until they realized it would have been advantage Matt when it came to every man for himself. So "being dumb" (or smart) was not the issue--fear was. And that was Matt's demise within the Brigade.


> Finally, I refer to Hayden as a "lying, greedy hypocrite with the emphasis on HYPOCRITE. Matt was not #1 every week for me so not even close to being my "idol." My point is with Hayden criticizing Matt and then doing worse than him is hypocritical. Early in the season Hayden gave me reason to rank him high, but when his true colors showed as a greedy, hypocritical chickensh!t his ranking for this week is appropriate. Understand the rankings are focusing on ONE PARTICULAR WEEK in the game, not necessarily the whole season (or one's life.)

Well, hope that cleared things up...but my gut tells me we probably have a better chance of Hayden growing a spine before you understand my logic. But hey, I'll keep on trying!



"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by michel on 08-29-10 at 01:25 PM
>"Professional athletes are NOT involved in a contest that goes on for 70 days."

What? Pro athletes have rivalries that last for years. Do you think Ray Lewis would cut Big Ben's head off in real life?

A game is a game. I've only played Survivor on-line but I can assure you that I'm not a villain in real life! When it came time to get rid of "Parvati", "Bill", "Borat", "Tyler", "Bridget", "Taj", Marisable, Hellizabeth and a few others however...

>"I didn't think Matt's feet were smaller than Britney's"

No, but, compared to Matt, she was smart not to win those comps.

>"COMPARED TO THE REMAINING HGs he figured it out first so that fact was intrumental in ranking Ragan #1 this week."

Your use of the plural really cracked me up. Let's count all the remaining HGs that haven't figured it out, shall we? I'm pretty sure Enzo, Lane and Hayden know about the Brigade so that leaves...? Britney! That's it, that's all!

Anyway, even if she didn't figure it out, she has been using the brigade as protection while Ragan wants to fight them alone. I ask you which one is playing smartly? Here's a hint: It isn't your new number 1. How many remaining HGs does that leave?!!!!

>"He was #1 FOR THE WEEK because that's how the ranking works...on a WEEKLY basis"

I don't have only short-term memory so I still see Ragan as a sniveling crybaby who couldn't come up with a plan when he needed one. That kind of makes me use your "he is who he is" on you! If I put someone in last place it will take a lot more than one week's work to change that. See how long it took Lame/Lane to rise to the top of my list.

>"Who cares if Hayden would have put up Matt and Ragan???"

I meant who cares that YOU are not sold on Hayden putting up Matt and Ragan if Brendon had gone first.

And, if Matt had outed them at F6 then it doesn't even matter. I guess you're having another problem counting the remaining House Guests! Matt had to sell out the Brigade when there were 7 players left, not with Hayden as HOH and two Brigade members controlling the votes!


>"Matt was the most loyal of all the Brigade members"

That is simply not true. From the start, Matt didn't give a sh*t about the Brigade other than how it could serve him and him alone. The three other guys stayed loyal to each other because they never quite wanted to screw each other over like Matt did. Only Hayden came close when he said he'd go with Kristen but he never could act on it.

The Brigade turning on Matt was as warranted as Tom turning on Gregg in Palau. The smarter player is always one step ahead.

When I see your logic, I tell you but here...?


Ils sont fous, ces Romains!
Thanks Tribe!


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by Aruba on 08-31-10 at 08:27 PM
What a crazy week for me...first time I got to the Forum since I last posted.

Not only do you see my logic, I thank you for selecting an example (Ray Lewis) that supports MY logic. Yes Ray Lewis is a "killer" on the gridiron. So does that transcend into real life? Well there were two party-goers (and their families) several years ago who would say YES! Lewis was arrested for both of their murders and the only reason he was not convicted was because of a plea bargain to turn on his accomplices and plead guilty to a lessor charge.
But let's not get into a judicial debate, fact is most pro athletes have a unique talent to channel aggression and be able to flip the switch in short spurts that the average individual does not possess. Even so, those pros would NOT be able to do it in a single contest over a 39-day stint on Survivor or 60-70 days on BB. It's utterly absurd to suggest that's possible for ANYONE.

Simply put...you are...who you are...who you are.

AHHH, so Britney KNEW ALL ALONG that not winning those HOHs was "smart." LOL You must be the President of the Nostrodamos Fan Club. Sure events that shook down AFTER Matt won those HOHs worked out to her benefit, but her good fortune was not known until AFTER they occurred. It could have went the other way for her. Matt could not play the DPOV on Ragan or Brendon and because of his loyalty to the Brigade, his options were either Kathy or Britney. If he chose Britney instead of Kathy, Brit would have went home and the Monday Morning QB approach would have criticized Britney for not trying hard enough in that HOH. Easier to say AFTER the fact. Nostrodamos would be proud.

And if Britney was truly a pupil at the Nostrodamos School of Prophecy, she would have realized Brendon winning that POV was halfway to the best thing that could happen to her as opposed to being a crybaby after Brendon won that POV, which leads us to...

OH, so being a crybaby is part of your criteria for ranking Ragan lower? If that's the case then Britney should never get a sniff of your top spot because she has been crying a helluva lot longer and a helluva lot more than Ragan. It's the same logic you used to compliment Britney and dub her as the 21st Century Joan of Arc for giving it back to Brendon after he called her a "spoiled brat" which she is. But you criticize Ragan for reacting to Rachel when Rachel's comments were a thousand times more out of line than Brendon's. But that's OK...we all know the name of that tune.

It simply IS true that Matt was the most loyal out of the Brigade Four. Come on, each and every one of the Brigade members (as well as every HG) were/are PRIMARILY thinking of themselves first and foremost and their alliance second; not just Matt. The reason they turned on Matt was because they were afraid "he would run away with this thing" and if you can't see that as a prime example of thinking about oneself and regarding Matt a legitimate threat to each of their individual wins, then I don't know why you insist on continuing this discussion (other than the obvious reason to yank my chain.) HaHaHa

For the record, Gregg made a loyalty statement FIRST in Palau by winning the RC and not even considering Tom or Ian to invite on the reward. Gregg proceeded to dig his grave deeper by not taking off his skirt and allowing Jenn to pull on his leash. But it doesn't surprise me you would spin it to make it appear Tom was disloyal when in truth he was reacting to what Gregg did.

If you feel the desire to reply, knock yourself out. I'll be away for the next three days and won't be reading posts until Saturday. Of course by that time, anything other than a POV win by Ragan, the rest of the week will be (YAWN) Snoozeville.


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by michel on 08-31-10 at 09:35 PM
Out of the thousands of athletes, I chose Ray Lewis to see if you believed in "innocent until proven guilty". I see that, as always, you have no doubts whatsoever!

Now, for pro athletes holding back for the duration, I remember Gary "Hawkins" who managed to do it. He hid who he really was very well and it only surfaced because Danni knew, not because he gave it away.

For Britney, no prophecy. She told us she didn't want to win those competitions. After a really bad start, she stayed out of trouble UNTIL she won a few competitions. Anyway, she outlasted Matt. Her way of playing is better than his.

As for crying, maybe it's just me but it's not the same for women and men. Take Marquesas: I remember being touched when Kathy O'Brien cried numerous times and laughing when John cried after being blindsided, apologizing to his mother for not winning! Didn't you?

The reason they turned on Matt was because they saw he wasn't playing for a Brigade F4. Sure, they each want to win individually but they wanted to go to F4 before turning on each other. Matt couldn't wait and he didn't pick Enzo as replacement nominee not out of loyalty but out of fear of the other's reaction.

BTW, I wasn't saying Tom was disloyal for turning on Gregg; he was doing what he had to do just like the Brigade 3.


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by Aruba on 09-04-10 at 01:23 PM
Even with the belief and complete understanding of "innocent until proven guilty," I'm not so naive to think no one has never gotten away with murder. Although I have "no doubts whatsoever" that there are those who are! Can we say, "OJ???"

Gary "Hawkins" chose to play Survivor the way he carried a clipboard on the sidelines for the Dallas Cowboys, and probably the way he wishes to live his life--in relative ambiguity. Which further supports my claim that you are...who you are...who you are.


>For Britney, no prophecy. She told us she didn't want to win those competitions.

Darn right it wasn't a prophecy...especially when she told us AFTER THE FACT. Actually the polar opposite of a prophecy which is why Nostrodamos must be smiling proudly upon all these "strategic" players who BACK INTO strategies. And his fan club grows when viewers actually swallow that rubbish.

>As for crying, maybe it's just me but it's not the same for women and men.

Holy Smokes! So being born with a penis should have an adverse effect to produce tears??? Sakes Alive, now I've heard it all! I thought estrogen level had more to do with it...but what do I know, I'm only in Finance.

But this much I do know--any grown individual who literally cries to "mommy" on national TV will be sarcastically ridiculed by me REGARDLESS of gender. So much for your Kathy O'Brien and nurse John comparison.


>Matt didn't pick Enzo as replacement nominee not out of loyalty but out of fear of the other's reaction.

I'll go 50/50 on that one. Although loyalty was an issue, I won't deny the fear of the Brigade beng exposed as a legitimate concern. If Matt chose Enzo as the replacement with non-Brigaders (Kathy & Britney) also available, the alliance would have been exposed.


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by michel on 09-04-10 at 02:32 PM
"you are...who you are...who you are."

Didn't you realize that, this week, your own idol proved you wrong? I'll let you chew on that until you start this week's list.

As for crying, I was just saying it's more common to see women crying than men. I think I can state that as a plain fact. Not good or bad. But, when it comes to a competition and someone is crying alone in his room, even refusing to talk to others, I think I can say that it isn't being pro-active!!!!! Your contradictions are so amusing.

BTW, I used Kathy OB because I knew she was one of your favorites as she was mine and I'm sure you had forgotten she cried a lot before blasting Brit for crying!!! I love contradictions.


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by Aruba on 09-04-10 at 03:02 PM
I don't have an idol this season so I have no idea what you're talking about.

Sure...he was alone in his room to replay the entire season in preparation for a potential competition that contributed to his POV win. Now THAT'S proactive and consistent with my posts. You need to look up "contradition" in the dictionary my friend.

Kathy OB didn't come close to crying and wailing and bellyaching in BOTH of her seasons as much as Britney did in only 1/2 of her season. Better get that dictionary out so your posts can make sense.


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by michel on 09-04-10 at 04:52 PM
Since you can't wait until this week's thread, Kathy told us that Matt definitely wasn't who he was claiming to be. She had seen him as a genuinly caring human being who showed empathy for her own battle with cancer by relating it to his wife's illness. Matt never cared. Matt was despicable but the jurors never saw it. He was able to hide it for 60 days or so. Just one of the many players who were able to play differently than who they really are, to carry an act for the duration. A game is a game, not real life.


Ragan cried alone many times, not only in preparing for challenges. I was mainly talking about the time he found out his beloved "brother" (who was no brother at all, btw) had thrown him under the bus. Matt wanted to explain, Ragan sulked. Maybe a plan could have been hatched instead!

Kathy cried when they didn't listen to her suggestions, Kathy cried when they didn't have fire, Kathy cried when they didn't have a shelter, when she found food, when the Rotus didn't thank her enough for the food, when she had to vote out Gina, Rob, Sean, Paschal etc...It made her human, part of the reason I liked her. Britney crying didn't do anything positive or negative for me. I like her for different reasons, mostly her snark. See, I enjoy different types, not just challenge winners.


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by Aruba on 09-05-10 at 04:09 PM
Matt's person was different on BB??? LOL LOL LOL LOL There's no question in my mind Matt would lie or deceive to get an upperhand in real life, not just what we saw on BB. Further reinforcing my claim that you are...who you are...who you are.

The fact others didn't see through the bogus sick wife lie is one of the thousands of examples that Production for CBS royally sucks and the casting debacles just keep on piling up. Rather sad commentary for the casting. But what else is new.


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by michel on 09-05-10 at 05:42 PM
He deceived the other players which is what counts. He also deceived you because you usually only like the players who show integrity. You even praised his loyalty even if he didn't have any!!!
Outside the DR, Matt managed to be act like a nice guy which he never was.

"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by Aruba on 09-06-10 at 01:43 PM
If you cannot see Matt's loyalty that YOU are the one he deceived. I stated this in the beginning and apparently it needs repeating--My criteria for BB HGs differs a little from how I judge/rank Survivor castaways. I always have (and always will) keep a Robinson Crusoe mindset when it comes to "Survivor." I take it literally to work hard and compete hard.
With BB I am more congenial to the Social Butterflies who wake up every morning and smell the petunias.

The reason I had Matt high many weeks is because I sensed early on that the Brigade would be the story of the season. Granted Matt didn't come up with the name but he, more than the other three, was most instrumental in allowing this alliance to build up the early steam necessary for them to be the force they were in the game. It was Matt the Brigader, not Matt the person I was ranking high.


>Outside the DR, Matt managed to be act like a nice guy which he never was.

Really??? I guess wearing Britney's hair extentions for no other reason than to mock and make fun of her was really "nice" behavior. And when playing the DPOV, telling Kathy she had to be nominated for obvious eviction because he had to "clean house" was a nice compliment given be a nice guy. I dunno...the first two thoughts that come to my mind when I think of "cleaning house" are taking out the garbage and scrubbing the soap scum off the bathroom tile. But hey...that's just me. Different strokes for different folks...it's what makes the world go round...and round...and round...kinda like "spinning"...thought I would put it in a more understandable perspective.


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by michel on 09-06-10 at 02:42 PM
There is a difference between loyalty and exploitation.

Matt wanted to use the Brigade for his sole benefit. The other 3 brigadiers wanted to help each other to the end. Only now are they battling it out. That's true loyalty.

As for Matt acting instead of being himself, all I'll have to ask you is how surprised will the other players be when they see all we've seen. Kathy already told us she was shocked to realize how despicable he really was, to see what he would do to win the game. Julie, during the exit interview, really set up Ragan for some choice comments during the reunion.

Those who liked Matt will hate him for a while at least. That's pulling an act for 60 days, showing that a game isn't real life unless you can tell me that Matt makes a living as con man! I'll even quote him from his CBS bio: "I'm leaving all of my emotions from home and my "real life" at the door. When I'm in the house, it's 100% game." I think that was exactly what he did: He wasn't who he really is.


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by Aruba on 09-08-10 at 05:42 AM
Naturally the reaction toward Matt will be negative. No one likes to be lied to or deceived. Furthermore, no one likes to look foolish when millions see they bought in his deception which Matt was able to acheive with the HGs (as evident with this sick wife lie.)

I'll stick to my guns that Matt is no stranger to lying or deception in real life so I will not nominate him for next year's Academy Awards. On the same token I will not make an insane prediction and say Matt makes his living being a "con man," but when push comes to shove in Matt's life I would not be shocked to hear any dishonesty coming from him.

That's where I'm coming from when I say, "You are...who you are...who you are."


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by michel on 09-08-10 at 06:40 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-08-10 AT 06:43 PM (EST)

I see you are saying one thing and its opposite at the same time! You won't win any arguments that way.

Your point of view is simple: A leopard cannot change its spots.

You say a player can't pretend to be something he isn't because the game goes on 24/7 for over a month and cameras are always rolling. Well, Matt managed to fool everyone, especially Ragan who was his closest friend and Kathy who felt sympathy for a guy who was playing to help his poor sick wife. That, my friend, is playing as someone you are not. To the other players, he wasn't who he really is.

What is funniest is that he fooled you also! You usually hate liars as much as women who use their sexuality yet you fell for Matt!! You can't even admit he was voted out because the brigade didn't trust him aymore. No, for you Matt was a valiant honorable, loyal competitor who was cheated out of his chance to win the prize!!! Why? Simply because he won 2 challenges!!

Table Manners??? You went on and on as if I had said that players should pretend to have good manners in order to win! If ever a jury votes for someone because they managed to show good table manners, I'll consider your point but, for now, I think you shouldn't drag a new poster into our war.

BTW, I think Enzo's lack of table manners and his habit of playing with himself proves my point that players can also be edited in ways that they are not. He looks much better on TV than how he really is on the feeds. Imagine how easy it is to do on Survivor when we only see 44 minutes out of every 300 hours of footage. They have enough splicers and dicers that they can show Stephenie as the sweetheart of Palau one season and the Mean Mayan Queen the next! Editing is a powerful tool.


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by Aruba on 09-09-10 at 06:15 PM
The only "opposite" perception we have here is the residual effect of our resident Spin Doctor twisting facts around.

It's the act of lying I'm talking about. What I'm saying simply is if a person lies in the game, they lie in life. Whether OTHER people are "fooled" by the lie or not has nothing to do with judging the honesty (or dishonesty) of that individual. Matt fooled everyone with his sick wife lie, but he did NOT fool me as far as judging his character. His ranking this season was indicative of his play during given weeks throughout the season compared to the other lame HGs selected by the inept casting crew. And for the record, his two challenge wins were more competitions than all the OTHER Brigaders won COMBINED in the first 50 or so days.

If anyone is "fooled," it's the fans who buy into the weak attempts by players claiming that they were only "playing the game" and are not really that way in life to salvage whatever self-preservation they can muster. I'll proudly say I am NOT "fooled" by their desparate pleas. The same cannot be said for others.

When did I ever say (or insinuate) that anyone thinks Enzo does not deserve to win because of his table manners??? Driving us through Spin City again? What I merely stated was the manners and etiquette Enzo dispays in the BB House is most likely the way he is outside the House too. You are...who you are...who you are.

Thank you for playing the edit card. Whenever Spin Doctor plays the feeble edit card it's a last ditch effort and I know I'm making ground in our debate.

As for Stephanie being a "sweetheart?" LMAO
I admired her fierce competitiveness even though she was on the second worst tribe in Survivor history, yet she was NEVER a sweetheart in my book.

Wilt Chamberlain had a quote..."Everyone cheers for David, but no one pulls for Goliath." Editing had nothing to with Ulong being a pathetic tribe, so naturally Steph was endearing in Palau as the underdog, thus her suspect behavior was overlooked. Coming back as a veteran among newbies, what was overlooked as an underdog in Palau was perceived differently in Guatemala as an experienced player. Nice try playing the edit card...yet again. Using editing as a crutch is a powerful cop-out.

We're beating this thread to death so I'm done replying here. I'm starting a new one with my Final Rankings where we can continue our banter (if you so desire.)


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by michel on 09-09-10 at 09:53 PM
I was going to let this thread die but I simply couldn't pass over another contestant making my point for me.
Ragan: "Matt created a complete FABRICATION..."

Finally, I'd like to ask why you think there are whole teams of editors working these shows and why does the Survivor's contracts include a clause that reads: "We are allowed to make you look stupid"?

Chew on that.


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by Belle Book on 08-28-10 at 02:20 PM
Here are my rankings -- and I'm not getting into the argument between you and Michel:

1. Lane -- you are in the best position of anyone in the Brigade. You have an alliance with the others in the Brigade and one with Britney. But now you have to decide who to be loyal to. Choose wisely.

2. Ragan -- great job in the POV challenge and smart move in figuring out the Brigade alliance -- considering how well the members of it did in keeping it a secret! But you're now in real danger. I hope you do well.

3. Britney -- well, you had the right idea in putting up Brendon and Enzo. Too bad Brendon won POV. But you did even better in being aligned with Lane. That kept you safe after your reign in HOH. But you are a threat.

4. Hayden -- you made real smart moves in your short reign as HOH and finally got rid of Brendon! But you need to hope that you don't go up on the block for you might be gone if you do. Be careful.

5. Enzo -- you're an okay player, but haven't won a single challenge yet. Of course, you haven't needed to yet. That might change.

Gonzo: Matt -- you should've been more willing to sell out the Brigade and/or tried in the HOH competition. If you had, you might still be here.

Gonzo: Brendon -- you were too close to Rachel. And you were too much of a threat in challenges. That's why you're gone.



"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by Aruba on 08-29-10 at 10:22 AM
Argument???? NAHHHH...just a little friendly bantering between two Forum "showmancers!" LOL LOL

Michel and Iltarion (from the Survivor Forum) will ALWAYS be my main men on these Boards.

Good calls on your Ranking:

Matt would have a good chance of still being here if he doesn't throw that HOH. I'm sure 99% of the viewers and definitely Matt himself acknowledges that factual blunder. But gotta give the guy kudos for owning up to his error and not hiding behind a lame and meager cop-out excuse.

You're also right that other players fear those who are threats in challenges. It's a pattern in all Reality Shows, but not much anyone can do (outside of better casting) to take that fear out of some people.

I believe everyone knows Lane is in a good position. But not sure he'll have to "choose." I think events that fall out in the next two weeks could very well make his decision for him without personally having to choose and be placed in that awkward position. He's made it this far through osmosis...the final two weeks could be no different for him.

Once again, thanks for your contributions!


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by Belle Book on 08-29-10 at 12:00 PM
Ah. I see now. It's easier for me to tell if two people are arguing or just bantering if I'm talking to them in person than if I'm reading it on a website. Well, I'll still stay out of your bantering, but at least I'll ignore it as well since it's not anything serious.

As for Lane -- you're right, his having to choose (or not to do so) might well depend on how events turn out. But we'll see.

And yeah, Matt at least admitted his own error in throwing the HOH. Maybe he should've recognized his additional error in trusting the others in the Brigade for too long. But what's done is done.



"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by michel on 08-29-10 at 12:35 PM
"it's not anything serious"

Quite the contrary, it is very serious, the opposition of two views of how to play these games.


"Matt at least admitted his own error in throwing the HOH"

But that wasn't the cause of his demise, only one symptom. If Matt had been smart, the whole house's attention would have been on getting rid of Brendon and Ragan. If it had been so then Matt wouldn't have needed to be HOH but Matt put a huge target on his back when he tried to play smart with the DPOV. He said it showed him he was at the bottom of the Brigade's pecking order but he didn't realize he showed them he was only using them.

Matt thought he was the only smart player in the house and that it meant he could do anything and get away with it. That was his biggest error and he probably still doesn't see it. He isn't alone not to see it.


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by Aruba on 08-29-10 at 01:19 PM

>Quite the contrary, it is very serious...

AWWWWW...are you calling our "showmance" serious?
I'm touch, but you may want to keep that in the "house" buddy. Posters will begin to talk!


>If Matt had been smart, the whole house's attention would have been on getting rid of Brendon and Ragan.

The whole's House's attention WAS on getting Brendon. But when Brendon won POV it set off a wild chain reaction of events, one of which, put Matt at risk of being the F7 evictee. Not sure anyone gets the House to put a primary target on Ragan. Ragan kinda reminds me of Rafe (Survivor Guatemala) in the way of other players never taking him seriously and focusing more on Gary, Judd, and Steph when the focus should have been on Rafe. And all Rafe did was stockpile challenge wins and advance to the F3 where a (that's right) challenge loss ultimately did him in.

Actually I think Matt was the only HG to take Ragan as seriously (contrary to your erroneous claim that Matt thinking he was the ONLY smart player in the game was his "biggest error.") No question Matt knew Ragan was a smart savvy player and purposely stayed close to him for that reason.

Rarely does an event occur as a result of one solitary happening. So I'm not saying throwing the HOH was his ONLY hiccup, just the biggest one contributing to his demise.



"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by michel on 08-29-10 at 09:32 PM
"when Brendon won POV it set off a wild chain reaction of event...

Wild? Not so much. Hayden wanted it to happen.

"Ragan kinda reminds me of Rafe"

Not at all. Rafe was in control of all the votes. He's the one that put the attention on everyone else. Ragan barely knew what was going on until he had his late epiphany.

As for Rafe's challenge wins, he didn't need to win any of those early challenges to get to the F3. What got him there were his positioning within the alliance and knowing that Stephenie was dumb. He needed only the last IC and I've never said the last few challenges weren't important.


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by Belle Book on 08-30-10 at 07:24 PM
I agree to some degree with you when it comes to Ragan and Rafe, Michel. I think that Ragan was smart enough to know more than many others who weren't in the Brigade, but he didn't figure out the full extent of the Brigade until it was late -- I think he figured that Enzo and Hayden at least had an alliance and maybe that they were aligned with Lane, but because of his interest in Matt, he didn't realize Matt was part of that alliance. It's a credit to the skills of the Brigade members -- as well as to the lack of game intelligence shown by the others.

By contrast, Rafe was more in control of the votes and didn't need to win any of the early challenges to get to the Final 3. And yeah -- the last few challenges are always important and the last one is the most important one of all.



"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by Aruba on 08-31-10 at 08:41 PM

>Hayden wanted it to happen.

Hayden "wanted" it??? LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Now you've enrolled Hayden in the Nostrodamos School of Prophecy. Like Britney, just because certain events happened to work to Hayden's benefit AFTER THE FACT, to credit Hayden with wanting the outcme is absurd and preposterous. He didn't "want" Brendon to win POV; I'll tell what he wanted...the greedy muppet WANTED a Hawaiian vacation and 5K. And he further cemnted his hypocrisy on Sunday by having the audacity to criticize Lane for opeing Pandora's Box. As if he would not have opened it himself? What a hypocrite!


My comparison of Ragan to Rafe was ONLY in the way of others not taking him seriously and focusing more on other players. Period! That's exactly what I said. I didn't expand it to other aspects of the game as you did. For the record I ended up liking Rafe as a Survivor. I'd put him right below Rob C. and Russell as the best players who didn't win. Was he involved in the voting? Absolutely. Did he control it?
The last thing I want is another lengthy Survivor thread in the BB Forum, but I find it funny that Rafe had so much so-called "control" when no less than three castaways (namely Gary, Jud, and Jamie) who all played the game with Rafe appropriately referred to him as "Stephanie's Lapdog."





"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by michel on 08-31-10 at 09:58 PM
Hayden said he didn't mind Brendon getting POV because he wanted Matt gone. Later, he even said that he wanted Brendon to be the pawn so that they could get Ragan out but Ragan won POV. Hayden had an understanding with Brendon, he wasn't going to be put on the block by Brendon. Shifty Matt could have put Hayden on the block. Ragan would have.

At most, you can say that Hayden was paranoid about Matt but I'll counter and say that a smart player's number 1 responsibility is to reassure your alies, make them feel they can trust you, find out what they need to feel safe. Matt failed miserably.

Quick Survivor remark: Why was Judd and Jaime even voted out? Because it was RAFE's plan to DESTROY Stephenie's game! He wanted to make sure that, in the end, she had no one but him to take to the F2. A Judd/Rafe/Steph ending was her ideal F3 but it was Rafe's nightmare.

Being seen by the others as her lapdog shows his mastery of the game. Remember Palau Steph and how often she didn't know who to vote for, the ties she stupidly created? Rafe remembered and he used her ambivalence to his advantage. Great game player. Miles ahead of Ragan
(and read your post again: You certainly put focus on Rafe's challenge abilities)


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by Aruba on 09-04-10 at 12:55 PM

>Later, he even said that he wanted Brendon to be the pawn...

Thanks for using the word "later" because that's exactly when most of these so-called "strategic" players come around to share their master plans with us. LOL
As I said before...Nostrodamos would be proud!

Not only was Hayden paranoid that Matt could "run away with this thing," EVERY ONE of the Brigade Four were concerned that their alliance could be exposed. If a Brigade member with the power of nomination nominated a Brigade member when non-Brigade member was also available for nomination, then the alliance would have been exposed. If a Brigade member was on the block against a non-Brigade member and the other Brigaders evict their own in favor of a NON-Brigade member, then the alliance would have been exposed.
NEITHER was the case with Matt. He was nominated by a NON-Brigade member and was sitting next to Enzo on the block. This was not a case of a Brigader being "smart" or another "failing miserably" but moreso an opportune situation that fell favorably for one and not for the other.

>Quick Survivor remark: Why was Judd and Jaime even voted out?

Quick Survivor answer: Because it was DANNI who spearheaded Judd's boot, not Rafe. And Jamie orchestrated his own boot with his paranoia and obnoxious behavior with no help needed from Rafe or any other player that season.


You're right, a (Judd, Jamie, Steph) would be a nightmare for Rafe. But a (Judd, Jamie, RAFE) F3 could have been a $1 million payday for Rafe or any player that season who was TRULY in "control."

BTW, the reason I mentioned Rafe's challenge wins was to reinforce how other players that season STILL did not perceive Rafe as a threat DESPITE his challenge wins. I didn't mean to insinuate Ragan as a challenge stud. The comparison was in relation to BOTH players not being taken seriously and underestimated during their seasons.


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by michel on 09-04-10 at 02:43 PM
"a (Judd, Jamie, RAFE) F3 could have been a $1 million payday for Rafe"

What???? You really didn't understand Rafe's game if you think that. Jamie takes Judd if he wins F3 IC and Judd takes Jamie. That was Rafe's nightmare just like Judd takes Steph and Steph takes Judd.

After seeing Lex and Rob C robbed of their victories by F3 losses, Rafe wanted two opponents who were taking him in the end if they won F3 IC. That's why he encouraged Danni to target Judd by convincing Steph that Judd was a liar. In fact, Rafe seeing Kim J. and Lill win F3 ICs in prior seasons made him scared of small, older women who weren't so bad in endurance challenges and that's why he voted out Lydia at F4. That, btw, comes from Rafe himself.


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by Aruba on 09-04-10 at 03:21 PM
You are the "General Surgeon" of Spin Doctors to even consider giving Rafe credit for Judd's boot. Danni approaches Steph on the steps of the Ancient Ruin to target Judd. That's the way it went down.

Rafe wanted two opponents who would take him to the end??? Well Danni didn't so shame on him. Lex and Rob C. weren't "robbed" of their victories because they FAILED in a challenge.
Kim J. won the F3 IC because Lex was loaded with parasites causing his system to shutdown. That was medically confirmed. Lil was in the most pathetic F3 ever in Survivor history and won purely out of default. To even remotely think pathetic Lydia would have beaten Steph AND Rafe in a F3 challenge is completely absurd and a rather sad commentary from Rafe. The only out I could possibly give him is if a prior season the final IC was building a stupid house of cards. Even then, that's a weak argument from a player you claim was in total "control."


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by michel on 09-04-10 at 05:14 PM
No spin, Danni herself said that she and Rafe bonded while Judd, Steph and Cindy enjoyed their reward with their loved ones. Rafe told her they would need to show Steph that Judd was a liar. That started the ball rolling and we had the memorable confessional by Rafe: "You can't trust a guy like Judd, but you can trust that you can't trust him."

Danni had promised Rafe F2. He decided everything but she knew he decided so she influenced him. While Steph couldn't understand Rafe's game, Danni made him feel like a genius. Rafe liked that. He liked that a lot. That's why he kept her.

"To even remotely think pathetic Lydia would have beaten Steph AND Rafe in a F3 challenge is completely absurd and a rather sad commentary from Rafe."

I know, we told that to Rafe but that was his thinking nonetheless. He was remembering that Kelly W., Kim J, Neleh, Jenna and Lill had won 5 of the previous 10 F3 ICs. Deena, Shii Ann, Teresa, and other women had won endurance challenges. Add Tina who had given one away to Keith. In his mind, Lydia could have won and she would have taken Steph. Rafe was eliminating Steph's alternatives.


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by Aruba on 09-05-10 at 04:19 PM
Spin...Spin...Spin...you're making me SOOOO dizzy I can barely type!!!


Most of those inept castaways who managed to win a late challenge or two benefitted from the Anti-Darwin Syndrome when Kelly W., Jenna, Lil, and even Amanda in her first two seasons faced subpar competition in the end after the strong challenge competitiors were Anti-Darwined out.

Guatemala was a season when the weak and pathetically inept were taken out early. Rafe and Steph were strong competitors and far more better than what was left for Kelly W., Jenna, Lil, Amanda. etc. in their seasons. Spinning again to cop out an excuse for Rafe???? Par for the course!


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by michel on 09-06-10 at 09:56 AM
You're really funny with that Anti-Darwinism!!!! Smart players stay, dumb ones go. Simple.
BTW, Teresa won endurance against the whole merged tribe, Shii Ann beat Rupert in endurance.

Steph, a strong competitor? Now that's a good joke.


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by Aruba on 09-06-10 at 01:23 PM

>Smart players stay, dumb ones go. Simple.

Two out of the last three BB winners were Adam and Jordan. Both will be applying for Rhode Scholars shortly...is that "simple" enough for you??? If Lane should win next week because being in the Final Four gives him a one in three chance of winning, I guess every 2nd grade math student will be proving Einstein's Theory of Relativity! Let's face it, many times its not a case of smart vs. dumb as much as it is being the beneficiary or victim of circumstances beyond their control.


>Teresa won endurance against the whole merged tribe, Shii Ann beat Rupert in endurance.

I'l be the first to admit Teresa and Shii Ann are no Tom Westman and Terry...but both are EONS ahead of pathetic Lydia in any kind of competition.


>Steph, a strong competitor? Now that's a good joke.

I never cared much for Steph as a person, but I can't say anything negative about her competitiveness even though you think her efforts were a "joke."



"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by michel on 09-06-10 at 02:21 PM
"Two out of the last three BB winners were Adam and Jordan."

They played against morons and they played slightly smarter games than the other morons. Lane has played a smart game even if he can't add to 4. He showed it when he realized he needed to save Brit last week. Matt was a dumb player who thought he had it made, had everyone fooled.

"Let's face it, many times its not a case of smart vs. dumb as much as it is being the beneficiary or victim of circumstances beyond their control."

I completely agree but the smart players are able to reduce the number of times their fate is beyond their control. That's why I say most boots follow Darwinism: Survival of the smart players who are able to adapt to a new environment and changing circumstances. I'll take brains over brawn anytime.

At one point effort needs to translate to results. Steph's results were the joke as she probably holds the record for most challenge losses.


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by LFJ on 09-06-10 at 03:24 PM
Hey, You Two (Aruba and Michel),

I laugh everytime I read your posts. I applaud you for your stamina!

There is an interesting book - "Darwin's Black Box", by a biochemist, Behe.

Behe argues the theories of Darwin, and accurately points out that even Darwin agreed there were things that could not be explained by evolution.

So, Michel, on the one hand, I agree with you that superior intellegence will probably allow for greater adaptation. Argument against this - Matt.

On the other hand, I agree with Aruba, that some things can not be analyzed sufficinetly to prove a point (Black Box), and are simply inexplicable, like luck and timing, and common sense.

Either way, guys. Damn the torpedoes. Full speed ahead!


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by michel on 09-06-10 at 04:52 PM
If Aruba was arguing that some things are only due to luck then I wouldn't have a problem but his argument is that strong challenge players are voted out unfairly, that it should go according to Darwin and have the stongest guy win every season.

Thanks for joining in. We mostly scare people away but it's only for fun.

BTW, Matt was too smart for his own good. Superior intelligence? Not in his case.


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by LFJ on 09-06-10 at 05:21 PM
Facetious doesn't always translate on the boards, does it?

"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by Aruba on 09-08-10 at 05:28 AM
>Either way, guys. Damn the torpedoes. Full speed ahead!

Tom Petty ROCKS!!!


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by Fishercat on 08-31-10 at 11:21 AM
General Statement: I think Hayden's becoming underrated in this house, and I'm pretty sure that his decision to take those prizes led to Matt leaving instead of Enzo. Just saying.

"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by michel on 08-31-10 at 06:16 PM
I'm not sure I follow. First, I don't think Enzo was leaving either way. Next, I think Hayden taking those prizes could have led to his own exit if they had found out and Brit had put him up. Hayden was lucky the Brigade could put the blame on Matt, giving them an even better argument to present to Brit.

If the POV had been straight competition, no temptations, and Brendon still wins, I think Matt leaves anyway. Lane had Brit's complete attention. But, if you want to imagine Enzo leaving...


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by Fishercat on 09-01-10 at 09:14 PM
The series of events at least potentially supports my version of this and you said why: the Brigade was able to pin the blame on Matt for these prizes.

Remember, at the beginning of the week, Britney guaranteed Matt and Ragan safety. Matt had made sure she didn't leave with the DPOV changing noms, and she saw a bigger target in Brendon. When deciding the second nominee, she asked Matt, primarily, who should go. No matter her distrust, she saw some strategic value in Matt.

Britney was infuriated that someone in her "army" took prizes. She thought Matt took the prizes, and that started her on the distrust train. Lane coming clean on his prize and defense of Hayden sort of steered suspicion to Matt, and began to put some spotlight on him. The fact that he threw Ragan on the bus solidified her opinion that he was not trust worthy...partially brought on because she was convinced that he took the prizes. Of course, Lane/Enzo/Hayden had a lot to do with this vote, but that was the first time we saw Britney really beginning to gun for Matt. I don't think it's a stretch to think that, if there were no prizes, Hayden would have gone up next to Enzo, and Enzo would have gone home unless Enzo revealed that he took the prizes (and he may have).

I'm just saying that it was pretty clear that her original plan (as she stated and showed pre-veto) was Enzo/Brendon up, Matt/Ragan/Lane safe, which leaves Hayden as veto replacement. I'm not convinced that the Brigade can turn her thoughts without those prizes: Lane has her ear but Hayden and Enzo aren't officially aligned.


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by michel on 09-01-10 at 10:38 PM
"Britney was infuriated that someone in her "army" took prizes. She thought Matt took the prizes, and that started her on the distrust train"

But Hayden had nothing to do with that so how does it make him underrated? Everyone thought Matt took the prizes because no one, including Brit, trusted Matt.

"I'm not convinced that the Brigade can turn her thoughts without those prizes"

With so much focus on Brendon, Lane and the Brigade didn't need to talk to Brit about putting up Matt until the Neanderthal saved himself. Once that was done, they would have found a way. She didn't need much convincing.


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by Fishercat on 09-02-10 at 01:05 AM
I guess you and I will just have to separate on how easily influenced Britney is. I maintain that Hayden would have gone up if they couldn't pin the prizes on Matt (and thus, lead him to stab Ragan in the back) and there's no way we ever know.

And Hayden did have something to do with it in my view. He didn't come clean, like Lane. Lane came clean because he knew he was safe, but Hayden allowed that to hang over like a cloud. He knew that either he or Matt were going up, and that no one would have Matt's back if it turned into a guessing game on which person was more likely to take a prize or two for personal game. Would it be Hayden with no real debts to pay off (that we know of) who everyone likes, or the "Gremlin" who has a sick wife to pay for and may possibly be looking for a trip to enjoy while they're both around. It was a shrewd move.

As an aside, that's not why I was saying he's underrated. You (correctly, to an extent) criticized my bashing of Enzo, but Hayden's played a similarly fantastic social game: no arguments where he is the main focus (Kristen took that bullet), everyone likes him, everyone but Ragan thinks that he'd take them further in the game, and that he can do it.


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by Aruba on 08-31-10 at 08:57 PM
Gotta agree with Michel on this one. Britney was going to do whatever her financee look-alike suggests. And as long as Matt was sitting next to another Brigade member, the other two voting Brigaders were going to knock out the biggest threat to their chances to win--Matt. This happens even if the Hawaiian vacation and the 5K were not taken.

More times than not, knocking out the bigger threat prevails. Even when Rachel and Brendon were on the block, despite Brendon's attempt to take the bullet, the consensus at the time deemed Rachel as a bigger threat and consequently she become the first juror.


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by Fishercat on 09-01-10 at 09:21 PM
I'm not denying that Matt goes if he's up there against anyone. He goes home in a vote against anyone because the Brigade (led by Enzo in this matter) wants him out. I'm denying that he would have been up there at all if he wasn't suspected of taking the prizes.

I think (this is more speculation than the other posts. She said the other stuff, this is just my thoughts) that she may have valued Matt in a goat/target way as well as a competition threat. When she saw (or thought wrongly) that Matt wouldn't fight for her interests when she's in power, he becomes a potential player to oust. Then he decides to throw Ragan under the bus and completely lose her, since he won't protect his best friend in the house (and, for Britney, she stood by Monet to the very end and she expected the same of Matt/Ragan...and the secrecy of the Brigade came back to bite Matt there. He was loyal to an unseen alliance).

I honestly don't think Matt was on her radar until he "took" those prizes.


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by Aruba on 09-04-10 at 01:42 PM
I'm still thinking Britney was more upset with Matt's suggestion to put up Ragan than being suspected of taking the prizes. I realize the taken prizes didn't help his cause, but I would put that #3 below suggesting Ragan, and Brit's financee look-alike talking into her ear.

With Brendon winning POV, Enzo already on the block, and her financee look-alike not an option, the only choices Brit had were Matt, Ragan, or Hayden. Although Matt was trying to keep all his options open up to that point, he came to the time in the game to make a decision and throw his loyalty one way or the other. He chose the Brigade leaving him no option but to suggest Ragan to try to save himself.

You hit the nail on the head when saying the secrecy of the Brigade bit him on the butt. Of course all this could have been avoided if he didn't throw the HOH competition which he personally acknowledged.


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by michel on 09-04-10 at 02:20 PM
"if he didn't throw the HOH competition which he personally acknowledged."

He said he threw the competition after the fact. Even if his wink was immediately after being told his answer was wrong, it was still after! Funny how you believe him but not others!!!



"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by Aruba on 09-04-10 at 03:33 PM
WOW...that's a reach that would make any rotator cuff specialist giddy.

With all due respect you're becoming utterly ridiculous now. His acknowledgement of throwing the competition was SO IMMEDIATE anyone would rightfully consider that AT THE TIME OF OCCURRENCE and not "after."

I don't think anyone finds your comical posts as amusing as I, but if consensus could be taken on this one it would even be close as to whether he threw that HOH. Not the same as having time to back into a fake strategy for the purpose of self-preservation and wait until a DR confessional to make a meager and bogus claim.


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by michel on 09-04-10 at 05:27 PM
"With all due respect you're becoming utterly ridiculous now."

Thanks for the laugh, you reminded me of Robbbb Z. voting out Shii Ann saying: "I hate you, you're disgusting but this isn't personal"!!!
Hard to find respect in that reply!! But I wasn't expecting any.

Matt's wink came after so it could have been a defense mechanism. I'm pretty sure it wasn't but that's not the point. The point is to show that your claims that others weren't planning on losing challenges are also ridiculous. Losing challenges is a good strategy in these games. Hatch told us that long ago.


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by Aruba on 09-05-10 at 03:58 PM

>Matt's wink came after so it could have been a defense mechanism.

No...thank YOU for the laugh!!! HaHaHa


"RE: Big Brother Love/Loathe List V12.8"
Posted by michel on 09-05-10 at 05:44 PM
You watch too much Fox "news"!!!