I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere here, and that kind of surprises me. If it was, I stand corrected. There was quite a bit posted about it on ss last week.

When watching Lizz vote in the final episode, it appears she writes the letter "C" down, and then it cuts away. When later asked who voted for Tina, she raises her hand. Perhaps she originally intended to vote for Colby, but changed her mind.

Here is a site that has some video of it, if you'd like to see what I mean. The pics aren't nearly as clear as what ICECAT could produce, but you can make it out.

http://www.geocities.com/psychomike42/

Lizz Just Is(confusing me)

• RE: Did Lizz vote for Colby?,dabo, 11:55 AM, 05-14-01
  • RE: Did Lizz vote for Colby?,LIZZLOVER, 12:12 PM, 05-14-01
    • RE: Did Lizz vote for Colby?,dabo, 00:09 AM, 05-15-01
      • D'OH!,LIZZLOVER, 00:51 AM, 05-15-01
        • RE: D'OH!,mavsfan, 03:46 AM, 05-15-01
          • The Zapruder Film Just Arrived...,IceCat, 06:06 AM, 05-15-01
          • RE: D'OH!,SurvivinDawg, 06:30 AM, 05-15-01
        • RE: D'OH!,BaquaR13, 11:55 PM, 05-15-01
• RE: Did Lizz vote for Colby?,Puffs, 12:20 PM, 05-14-01
  • Some corrections:,SurvivinDawg, 05:37 PM, 05-14-01
• RE: Did Lizz vote for Colby?,westerberg14, 02:03 PM, 05-14-01
• Just Finished Reviewing the Tapes...,IceCat, 06:36 PM, 05-14-01
  • Thanks, IceCat,LIZZLOVER, 06:55 PM, 05-14-01
    • RE: Thanks, IceCat,IceCat, 07:36 PM, 05-14-01
  • RE: Just Finished Reviewing the Tapes...,BaquaR13, 11:58 PM, 05-15-01
• GOOD 4 u!,BaquaR13, 07:54 PM, 05-14-01
• RE: Did Lizz vote for Colby?,Lightmage81, 00:03 AM, 05-15-01
  • RE: Did Lizz vote for Colby?,aymelek, 08:38 AM, 05-15-01
    • RE: Did Lizz vote for Colby?,Lightmage81, 10:38 AM, 05-15-01

Amber, Nick and Rodger voted for Colby; Elisabeth, Alicia, Keith and Jerri voted for Tina. This was asked by Bryant in the reunion show.

I know that, Dabo. That's my point. Why would Lizz write down a "C" (for Colby) instead of a "T" for Tina on the ballot? It's pretty clear that she writes the letter "C". The camera cuts away, so you don't get to see the entire name written down.

If she changed her mind, and voted for Tina, then why didn't we see it scratched out on her ballot that was read on "live" television?

Where's ICECAT when we need him?

D'oh!!! Misunderstood another one, I can be so oblivious sometimes. I thought that was just a hand movement, never gave it a second thought, even forgot she'd done that. Ah well, got to practice male oblivious tendancy, should come in real handy in shakes' game.

No prob, Dabo.

Like IceCat stated, she may have done it to "psyche" us all out (at least it worked for me and my family). The only problem I have with that thought is that it seemed in all previous votes that Lizz had her mind was made up when she went to vote. When she was shown in previous episodes placing a vote, she never "warmed up" or pulled an "infamous C gesture". Perhaps Satan (MB) had her do it to mess with us. I guess in looking back, Liz would be the perfect one for "us" not to expect to "mess with us".

LJI

Let's put 2 + 2 together...

1) We saw Liz make the big "C" swoop.
2) MB wanted a "likeable winner".
3) MB admits that he re-shot sceens from the show and there has been rampant speculation on this board about MB manipulating the outcome of different challenges.
4) MB in a departure from last year, didn't count the votes at the last TC, he put them under "lock and key" for several months keeping the winner a secret.

So how about this for a scenario...

MB has a problem, his kucha team is beating the oggies soundly. The kucha are up 7 to 5. MB wants the tribes to go into the merge 5 - 5 to help keep viewer interest, so he MANIPULATES THE GAME and has the "maze" immunity challenge. He makes kucha run with all 7 of their players... putting kucha at a disadvantage running 7 people vs the oggies 5. He gets the desired result Kucha loses making it 6-5.

MB is figuring he can MANIPULATE the next immunity challenge with a swimming challenge. Considering Rogers doggie paddle technique
this should be another easy win for the oggies. This little MANIPULATION becomes irrelevant when Mike burns himself and guarantees the tribes enter the merger 5-5, just like MB wanted.

MB is pretty sure kucha will take the upper hand after the merge, he knows they will vote to get rid of Jerri, no need to even manipulate this one, but those crazy kucha decide to vote for Colby instead of Jerrie, so they lose the tie breaker and go down a man to the oggies 4-5.

Now this is a problem. MB would really rather Roger or Liz won the money, they are so good and clean, who couldn't love them, but the oggies are in the driver seat and start voting the kucha off one by one. The only way Roger and Liz can get back into contention for winning the money is if the oggies did something really foolish, like voting off Jerri and run the risk of Amber jumping ship and joing the kucha... So MB tries to MANIPULATE the game again and has the camera crew start asking Keith incendiary questions about Jerri, about her cooking, and her criticism of his rice, and what if Colby jumps ship and joins Jerri/Amber, and didn't he say he didn't care about winning the money - he just wanted to make sure Jerri didn't? So Keith goes off half-cocked and tells Colby/Tina he's voting for Jerri, she's outta here. Colby/Tina argue against it, but Keith is determined so Colby/Tina go along with it. (just like in survivor I when Dirk/Shawn were talked into getting rid of Stacey instead of Rudy).

Unfortunately for MB, the kucha (Liz/Roger) for all the talk of trying to find a chink in the alliance never, think to ask Amber to jump ship and join them in an alliance. Liz/Roger could have guaranteed Amber a final 3 position and a shot at the final 2. It would also guarantee either Liz or Roger would make the final 2, and with luck, Liz AND Roger might both make it to the final 2. Amber would have gone for it, we know she was worried about the oggies voting her out well before the final 3, she even asked Colby if he was going to vote against her.
Instead Liz and Roger, and Amber for that matter just wait around like sheep waiting for slaughter.

Now MB is left with Keith/Colby/Tina. And he asks himself, "Who does America want to win?".

Keith - the Chef that can't cook rice, that had to beg Tina to save him in the post standing immunity?
Colby - the hyper competitive, loud mouth Texan, that seems awfully pleased with himself.
Tina - a good christian woman, who seemed to bond with Liz and Roger, has 2 kids, and who's only job she ever had above minimum wage was as a flight attendant.

Looks like a no brainer to me, MB wants Tina to win, so again he MANIPULATES the final immunity challenge and goes with the "fallen comrades" rather than "hand on the idol". The "fallen comrades" should favor Tina, Tina might also win the "hands on the idol", but the outcome of that challenge would be more in doubt. MB expects once Tina wins "fallen comrades" she'll pick Keith to go against. MB can do the math and knows Tina should win that jury vote big time. So "fallen comrades" it is... OOPS, Colby wins.

But MB gets lucky, Colby - thank God - picks Tina to go against in the Jury vote. However, MB knows a Jury vote between Colby/Tina is going to be close, and Colby could win. How can he manipulate the jury vote? MB has the great idea, take the vote, but don't show the players who won. So everyone votes, MB counts them, and sees that the result is 4-3 in favor of the Colbster. MB reviews the tapes and sees:

Nick, Roger, Amber, Liz voted for Colby.
Jerri, Keith, Alicia voted for Tina.

MB now has 4 months or so to get one of Colby's votes to switch.
Of the Colby votes, Liz is probably the one having the most second thoughts about who she voted for. Roger may have second thoughts too, but considering the generation he comes from, he's more likely to stick with his original vote. So in the ultimate MANIPULATION, MB reminds Liz that Colby was going to buy a Harley with the $1,000,000, while Tina was going to use the money to help homeless puppies fine good families to live with, and Liz agrees, maybe she made a mistake and accidently wrote down Colby when what she really meant was Tina. So Liz writes down Tina and MB replaces the "accidental Colby vote" with the "good and righteous vote for Tina".

Tina wins it all.

Analysis reveals that there was, indeed, an eighth voter on the grassy knoll!

Normally, mavsfan, we agree but this time I must disagree with you on a few issues:

>3) MB admits that he re-shot sceens from the show and
>there has been rampant speculation on
>this board about MB manipulating the outcome
>of different challenges.
>4) MB in a departure from last year, didn't count the
>votes at the last TC,
>he put them under "lock and key" for several months keeping the winner a secret.

Granted this gives MB the opportunity to manipulate things.

>MB has a problem, his kucha team is beating the oggies
>soundly. The kucha are up 7 to 5.
>MB wants the tribes to go into the merge 5
>- 5 to help keep viewer interest, so he MANIPULATES
>THE GAME and has the "maze" immunity challenge. He
> makes kucha run with all 7 of their players...
>putting kucha at a disadvantage running 7 people vs the
>oggies 5.

How about "MB gives Ogakor the outline of the maze so that they can win." The margin of victory (Ogakor out to the idol as Kucha was only getting their THIRD medallion) was so huge that it had to be more than just 7 people v. 5 running through a maze.

>MB is figuring he can MANIPULATE the next immunity challenge with a swimming challenge. Considering Rogers doggie paddle technique this should be another easy win
>for the oggies.

The problem is this: it is widely believed that the obstacle course later used as the reward challenge (that Colby/Jerri won) was to be the IC when Mike got burned. It was revealed that the challenge was re-used later, and this is believed to be it.

>MB is pretty sure kucha will take the upper hand after
>the merge, he knows they will vote to get rid
>of Jerri, no need to even manipulate this one, but
>those crazy kucha decide to vote for Colby instead of
>Jerrie, so they lose the tie breaker and go down
>a man to the oggies 4-5.

Here's why I hit "reply." First, Jeff actually had TWO votes, as did Jerri. So if Kucha HAD voted for Jerri, it would've been a 2-2 tiebreaker, and who knows how that tie would've been broken. And of course: I have maintained strongly and argued interminably (and will continue to do so) that Kucha was misled into believing that Colby had votes. The Kuchas were indeed crazy to vote for Colby, but it wasn't just craziness IMHO.

>Now this is a problem. MB would really rather Roger
>or Liz won the money, they are so good and
>clean, who couldn't love them,

At this point, I think you assume too much. I don't think MB truly gives a whit who wins the money. He wants drama, suspense, and a close finish at the end.

>but the oggies are in the driver seat and start voting the kucha off one by one. The only way Roger and Liz can
>get back into contention for winning the money is if
>the oggies did something really foolish, like voting off Jerri
>and run the risk of Amber jumping ship and joing
>the kucha...

>So MB tries to MANIPULATE the game again and has the camera crew start asking Keith incendiary questions about Jerri, about her cooking, and her criticism of his rice, and what if Colby jumps ship and joins Jerri/Amber, and didn't he say he
>didn't care about winning the money - he just wanted
>to make sure Jerri didn't? So Keith goes
>off half-cocked and tells Colby/Tina he's voting for Jerri, she's outta here. Colby/Tina argue against it, but Keith is
>determined so Colby/Tina go along with it. (just like in
>survivor I when Dirk/Shawn were talked into getting rid of
>Stacey instead of Rudy).

First, MB did not need to manipulate in order to get Keith to hate Jerri. Second, I am not sure Tina argued against it. They showed Tina standing silently as Colby and Keith argued about it. Tina probably did make the final decision, but I think it was FOR voting off Jerri, not against it. Third, remember that name "STACEY". You'll see it later in this broadcast.

>Unfortunately for MB, the kucha (Liz/Roger) for all the talk of
>trying to find a chink in the alliance never, think
>to ask Amber to jump ship and join them in
>an alliance. Liz/Roger could have guaranteed Amber a final
>3 position and a shot at the final 2. It would also guarantee either Liz or Roger would make
>the final 2, and with luck, Liz AND Roger might
>both make it to the final 2. Amber would
>have gone for it, we know she was worried about
>the oggies voting her out well before the final 3,
>she even asked Colby if he was going to vote
>against her. Instead Liz and Roger, and Amber
>for that matter just wait around like sheep waiting for
>slaughter.

And this to me was the "weak link" in the integrity of the entire show, not to mention that it blasts your own argument out of the water. If MB wanted Rodger or Lis to win, and was manipulating the game, why NOT have Amber ally with the Kucha? The course of events would show that, if anything, MB manipulated it THE OTHER WAY. Amber was NOT allowed to make that alliance. We now know that Amber is as stupid as a rock, so it no longer surprised me that she didn't see this obvious move. But Rodger and Lis approached Colby about an alliance, so do you REALLY want to try to tell me they didn't approach Amber?!?! Yeah, keep on talking, I'm just smiling as I listen. Lis and Rodger's reasons (in exit interviews) for not approaching Amber seem insincere at best... they said they couldn't trust her... but good grief, we're talking inevitable waxing here! THEY HAD NOTHING TO LOSE...

Okay, let me get off the soapbox, I'm getting worked up again...

*deep breath*

Ah, much better.

>MB now has 4 months or
>so to get one of
>Colby's votes to switch.

And in that 4 months, MB is conferring with his lawyers about "STACEY". Oops, why, there's that name again. MB may have manipulated DURING the show, but in the aftermath, when the lawsuit was filed?!?! If he's that stupid, he deserves what he's going to get.

MB is fortunate that Amber is dumb as a rock. I'll grant you that much.

*** Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

"I've never been bored a day in my life. Only boring people get bored." -- Jerri Manthey

I wanted to add this: i think what you said is true about Elisabeth knowing who she was going to vote for everytime. I remember her saying though, "this was probably the hardest vote for me." I dont know if that means much. Also, there wasnt a smily face on any of the votes, was there? I didnt think so, but the tape of the final episode was taped over at my house. I guess it would have been caught by someone on our board by now if had been one.

I so agree with you. It definately looked like a C and something else that bothers me, before they knew who voted for who Colby made the comment that he, in hindsight would have sucked up more for Jerry and .... I think he said Alicia, but he said someone who did not vote for him, right before he said this they asked if anyone told who they voted for and everyone shook their head and said no. Too many werid things went on on that last episode to make me believe that it was all..real!

Some corrections: Colby said that he did not expect to get Jerri's vote, but he should've sucked up to Alicia more. Everyone in the studio had just watched what we watched on TV, so Colby had just seen Alicia's and Jerri's votes (which were shown as made at the time).

As to Lis's "C", there are several possibilities, the most obvious of which is she used a fresh piece of paper to put Tina's name down, and we weren't shown that. Lis said clearly in the aftershow that she voted for Tina, so I don't see this as much of an issue.

*** Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

"I've never been bored a day in my life. Only boring people get bored." -- Jerri Manthey

I thought the same thing when watching the final episode - I counted Liz's vote as one for Colby because she did appear to make a "C" or maybe a circle... DId any of the votes have a goofy smiley face on it or something??

I have already taped my copy of the final episode because I wasn't that impressed by it - but had forgetten about this...

I reviewed the tapes from the final episode for the Outback voting sequence and the LA vote counting sequence. Here are the results. No caps available at this time, but here is the play by play:

Scenes Shown at Final TC in Outback:

1. Roger's vote shown... votes Colby.

2. Liz's vote not shown... from the head on shot, Liz is shown making a C motion with the marker - no ink on paper. No over the shoulder shot.

3. Alicia's vote shown... votes Tina.

4. Keith votes... no indication given.

5. Amber's vote shown... votes Colby.

6. Nick's vote not shown... no indication given.

7. Jerri's vote shown... votes Tina.

Scenes Shown at Los Angeles Vote Count:

1. Tina vote... handwriting matches Alicia.

2. Tina vote... handwriting not seen in Outback sequence.

3. Colby vote... handwriting matches Rodger.

4. Colby vote... handwriting matches Amber.

5. Colby vote... handwriting not seen in Outback sequence.

6. Tina vote... handwriting not seen in outback sequence.

7. Tina vote... handwriting matches Jerri.

No funny circle or C shapes on any of the Tina votes. Liz was just warming her hand up, maybe?

In the subsequent interview, the 'Colby voting block' is identified as:

Colby, Amber, and Nick.

When asked who voted for Elizabeth:

Jerri, Keith, Alicia, Elizabeth.

Thanks for chance to analyze more video. I live for this stuff!

Maybe it's just my mind playing tricks on me (wouldn't be the first time), but it appears there is ink on her ballot. Just to the upper right hand corner of the rock it appears to be the top of a "C".

Oh well, just looking for a good conspiracy! Thanks for taking a look.

LJI

**When I found the skull in the woods, the first thing I did was call the police. But then I got curious about it. I picked it up, and started wondering who this person was, and why he had deer horns.**

My capture card is at work, so I'll have to work with the RealMedia clips on the website that you quoted.

Here is the best that I can do with their clips:

Looks like the paper is blank after she makes the hand motion. Maybe she did it to psyche everyone out.

That was some good identifying! Thanks! Just for clarification, i think that vote number 2 was Keith's and vote 6 was Elisabeth's. Why would they show Jerri's vote last? It almost spoiled it for those who had remembered her voting.

IT DID IT DID IT DID!!!! I remember watching that thinking that Colby had won. I saw her write a "c" or so i thought. I am surprised too that no one has posted it. But i agree LIZZLOVER, good catch!

yeah......I had a similar though when I first saw the edisode...

and I found it kind of weird that they did not show the entire video of the votes......(you know the one where they show side by side the final words vid...)......

I remember thinking that Colby had won when I saw Lis write the "C" too. But I assumed later that it was just MB editing in a previous clip when Lis voted for Colby earlier in the season to get one final dig at us in SII.

Poor, brainless Colby must have thought he won too, when he saw that part of the show. You KNOW that he was counting the votes in his head too--given his competitive nature. When he stood up screaming & celebrating, I think his first reaction was that he won, until Tina's name sunk in a split second later & he turned to hug her.

yeah.....
thats a possibility....