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"Could Angie have saved herself?"
Posted by cambo on 04-08-05 at 01:56 AM
I was really disappointed in Angie. Yes, she did choke on the presentation but she choked because she had way too much on her plate. It seems like Chris' only task was to purchase the electronics and lose the credit card, and it's not really known what Alex did.

She should've gone in the boardroom and played up that fact that she had too much on her plate. She was doing all the grunt work while Alex and Chris were being spectators. I think if she went after Alex more for delegating too much responsibility to her while not giving Chris much to do, she could've saved herself.

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"RE: Could Angie have saved herself?"
Posted by Reality432423 on 04-08-05 at 02:04 AM
Chris should have been fired today. I think Angie should have been safe this time. I beleive her last performance as PM was disapointing, Donald Trump remember other tasks. Her record was not very good.

To be honest Chris didn't really have to do much today. All he did was get the electronics and go back to the store to get his missing card. That's seems to be all he did. Alex I'm not sure what he did.

I'm really surprised Alex stuck up for Chris again in the boardroom. I think Alex judgement stinks. Chris is obviously a weak player that will only bring the team down. Angie at least is useful.

As for if Angie could save herself. After that presentation, I don't think she could. She said everything possible to try to save herself. She mentioned Chris antics, Alex lack of leadership etc... I see no other way she could have changed her outcome.

"not enough Alex bashing in the BR"
Posted by Angelfood on 04-08-05 at 09:32 AM
I think Angie did NOT say everything possible in the BR. And what about her & Chris' little alliance? They should have mentioned in both last week AND this week (last week could've been a set up to show that Alex isn't so great) that both times Alex - was very distracted by the models, wasted precious time in talking to customers/Carolyn and this is usually at the end of the task, and was very passive and not a good leader. Why didn't they attack Alex? DT loves that.

I also think Alex wanted to get rid of angie cuz she's too much of a threat as a strong leader.

"RE: not enough Alex bashing in the BR"
Posted by Reeflex7 on 04-08-05 at 12:11 PM
>I think Angie did NOT say
>everything possible in the BR.
>Alex was very distracted by the
>models, wasted precious time in
>talking to customers/Carolyn and this
>is usually at the end
>of the task, and was
>very passive and not a
>good leader. Why didn't
>they attack Alex?


I agree with this...she did mention it once, but it should have been the focal point of her whole boardroom defense. They wouldn't have been so rushed and scattered if Alex had gotten them to the place on time. (He seemed more interested in trying to impress that good-looking lawyer). Instead she focused on Chris and the credit card, and I agreed with Chris that while losing the card was stupid, it didn't cost them the task.

I still don't think it would have made that much of a difference. Truth be told, she didn't have much of a defense; she had no choice but to admit that she laid an egg during the presentation. At least she was stand-up about it. I agree with the firing. As an exec she's going to have to deal with tough situations like that from time to time. If she's going to crack like that under pressure I wouldn't be very confident sending her in to do a presentation for me.

"RE: not enough Alex bashing in the BR"
Posted by ElroyJetson on 04-08-05 at 02:27 PM
I agreed with Chris that while losing the card was stupid, it didn't cost them the task.

I helped them lose the task. Chris' time at Best Buy could have been used to off-load Angie and therefore give her time to have a better presentation. He basically "called in sick."

Additionally, Alex should have ensured all the outfits were accounted for and they left in time.

Angie should have hammered those arguments home.

Elroy

"RE: not enough Alex bashing in the BR"
Posted by tannl on 04-08-05 at 04:42 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-08-05 AT 04:44 PM (EST)

""Instead she focused on Chris and the credit card, and I agreed with Chris that while losing the card was stupid, it didn't cost them the task.""

I disagree. Net Worth only had a three-man team and two of the players were mostly spectators. Chris wasted valuable time searching for the credit card, when he should have been helping Angie instead. Everything felt on Angie while Alex did very little to lightened the load on Angie in Chris’ absence. In fact, Alex had the lightest load therefore he should have done the presentation, not Angie.


"RE: not enough Alex bashing in the BR"
Posted by MediaMan on 04-11-05 at 08:53 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-13-05 AT 02:30 PM (EST)

While its true that Angie cracked. I think the greater offense is Alex's poor delegation of the task. Alex delegated too much responsibility to the person who was also responsible for a critical component of the task, the presentation.

This is a sure sign of somone who either

a) doesn't understand proper delegation - if so, he should be fired

b) was attempting to manipulate responsibility to put someone elses neck on the line - and if so, he should have been fired

I have discussed the essential principals of delegation in my newsletter along with additional thoughts about the teams failure in my podcast audios.


MediaMan
Author of the weekly Apprentice Newsletter at http://tinyurl.com/62c74
Practical business lessons & insightful analysis
(complete with podcasts and RSS feeds)

"RE: Could Angie have saved herself?"
Posted by jackandjill on 04-08-05 at 10:54 AM
Alex defended Chris because Angie is a bigger threat to him. Get rid of your competition.
"RE: Could Angie have saved herself?"
Posted by MasterTech on 04-08-05 at 02:49 AM
IMO, probably not.

Face it, it's the Donald's call, and he has prejudged the candidates to some degree even before they set foot in the boardroom. It certainly seems to be the case with Alex, who I think was equally if not more responsible for this week's loss. I doubt they would have won even if Angie's presentation was good, because they did no market research, and didn't even know that a cell phone is the most important gadget to the young consumer (DUH!)

"RE: Could Angie have saved herself?"
Posted by smokedog on 04-08-05 at 02:52 AM
>Face it, it's the Donald's call,
>and he has prejudged the
>candidates to some degree even
>before they set foot in
>the boardroom.

This is the entire theme behind this whole competition. DT could honestly have the winner picked out by Day 1. The rest of this series is just fluff. He'll keep around interesting people for a while, but he'll make sure his two favorites are there in the end.

"RE: Could Angie have saved herself?"
Posted by rtrader on 04-08-05 at 10:49 AM
Agree that all three had major contributions to NetWorth's loss this week. Unfortunately for Angie, the presentation was probably the major factor in the team's performance, since it received the most feedback from the two company execs. So while it wasn't fair that Chris and Alex got a pass this week, Angie had to give a great presentation for a chance to survive another week. When she failed at that, it made it easier for Chris and Alex to pin the loss on her.
"RE: Could Angie have saved herself?"
Posted by Flairmarq on 04-08-05 at 11:02 AM
I think that DT seriously needs to catch dailies if he can. Angie was the hardest worker on the team and had little help from Alex, the supposive team leader, and Chris, who did oly one task in 2 1/2 hours.

I think Carolyn (who has been an avid Angie supporter) said nothing derogitory to Angie, placing her attack at Chris, the man handling the money (which he lost for a time), and doing absolutely nothing in the task besides buying gadgets.

In the past, the losing the money thing was pretty much a given "You're fired". I think DT just does't like Angie. It has been my contention from the begininng. Could she have saved herself any better? I doubt it. She did all she could, and even with Carolyn as an alli, she still got fired. I think DT just needed an excuse to get rid of her.

Right now, I am with Angie, go Tana go!

"The Simon of the Wabash Valley"

"RE: Could Angie have saved herself?"
Posted by jae on 04-08-05 at 11:10 AM
>In the past, the losing the
>money thing was pretty much
>a given "You're fired".

Actually, Maria went over-budget and Andy lost a cellphone but neither one as fired. But I'm guessing you're talking about Kristi.

I agree that Trump just doesn't like Angie. She did the most work and all three of them failed.

I think at this point, Alex has given up winning so he's just trying to stay afloat as long as possible, and this means picking off the strongest competitors when they're vulnerable while keeping the weak ones.

Then again, it could be something else.

"RE: Could Angie have saved herself?"
Posted by singer on 04-11-05 at 09:44 AM
>IMO, probably not.
>
>Face it, it's the Donald's call,
>and he has prejudged the
>candidates to some degree even
>before they set foot in
>the boardroom. It certainly seems
>to be the case with
>Alex, who I think was
>equally if not more responsible
>for this week's loss. I
>doubt they would have won
>even if Angie's presentation was
>good, because they did no
>market research, and didn't even
>know that a cell phone
>is the most important gadget
>to the young consumer (DUH!)
>

In total agreement, MasterTech! I read that Pam from last season said that The Donald pre-determined the winners before shooting began. If nothing else, he seemed to have it in for Angie, and not Mr. Metrosexual. I question why he gunned her down, when she apparently did most of the work?

Even if Angie's boardroom arguments were not cut-throat and negative, her work record was excellent. He should have given her credit for that. She was definitely the best worker on her team for this task.

--Singer

"yahoo extra scenes"
Posted by Angelfood on 04-08-05 at 11:45 AM
i'm watching now the unaired scenes.
poor Angie was "spacey" when she & alex met with the executives in the beginning (both teams did this). She couldn't put a sentence together. So, I'm sure that factored in.

But Alex should have been the one talking to the execs.

"RE: Could Angie have saved herself?"
Posted by lindan on 04-08-05 at 11:58 AM
An response that Angie could have used to save herself:

Matt Calamari choked big time when he couldn't even answer a simple question during Apprentice 2's season finale. If you claim chokers don't work for your company, fire Matt.

"RE: Could Angie have saved herself?"
Posted by Bravegirl on 04-08-05 at 12:12 PM
I was absolutely amazed that Chris did not get fired. DT has done nothing but put him down in the boardroom. True, he's never been crazy about Angie either but with his temperment and the fact that he lost the credit card, it should have been enough to fire Chris. The fact is that DT really likes Alex. I think that he listened to him when Alex said that Angie should be fired because Chris has 'potential'. ???????? I don't see it!
"RE: Could Angie have saved herself?"
Posted by Reeflex7 on 04-08-05 at 12:13 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-08-05 AT 01:29 PM (EST)

lindad - That would only have expedited her firing, but I sure would have liked to have seen it

"RE: Could Angie have saved herself?"
Posted by ginger on 04-08-05 at 12:38 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-08-05 AT 12:38 PM (EST)

For whatever reason, Trump just plain didn't like Angie. He doesn't like Chris, either, but The Donald is slanting this thing towards a woman's win and he made sure Angie wasn't going to be that woman.

Carolyn clearly felt Angie got the shaft and disagreed with Trump on this one.

I don't understand why Trump thinks Alex is all that and a bag of chips. He wears a suit well. He won as PM on the Sony task, true, but that was largely because it required less PM participation, rather than more. In the pizza task and in last night's task, Alex kept his load light and his hands clean.




"RE: Could Angie have saved herself?"
Posted by Harrison on 04-08-05 at 01:24 PM
"...The Donald is slanting this thing towards a woman's win..."

I would agree in that Trump seems eager to display his disappointment when he lets a woman candidate go.
It seems almost defensive on his part in a preemptive way.
Sort of like "Hey everyone, I'm trying to hire a woman here but this one just didn't cut it."
Generally, this kind of comment is accompanied by regretful head shaking or a plea for confirmation from his right and left (each of whom happened to be women this time around).

So yes, I think there is a clear desire on the part of the exposed (read: vulnerable) Donald to avoid charges of sexism.

But then, the presence of his two confidants last night would seem to counter that on it's own...and perhaps that was the point.
Simple damage control for the man whose name is his greatest, or at least most recognizable, asset.

Given the previous results, a female candidate has to get this brass ring.

All signs point to a woman winning this time 'round.
And those signs have little to do with any sort of competition.

Of course it could very well work out that such a result in this case is in Trump's best interest regardless (I think that's probably the case).
But I shouldn't think such serendipity ought to be confused with an untainted achievement.


"RE: Could Angie have saved herself?"
Posted by Harrison on 04-08-05 at 01:34 PM
I heard Angie on the Imus in the Morning show this morning and Don Imus put an obvious question to her:

"Why did you agree with Trump that you choked and then deny it in the cab later on?"

Angie's response was to the effect that she felt badgered into agreement by Trump himself.
At which point Imus said "Well, you choked in the boardroom then, didn't you?"

It reads a bit harsher than it seemed at the time. He was just sort of having a bit of fun, I think, as it was said with laughter. But his point was valid.
If she truly felt that she didn't choke, it was her obligation to represent herself as such during the Q. and A.

She didn't do that and, in that sense, she certainly forfeited an opportunity to save herself.

(She also sang a few show tunes on the show, by the way. In related news, I don't think we'll be seeing her on American Idol anytime soon. But she did seem nice enough and didn't come off as being bitter or defeated.)

"RE: Could Angie have saved herself?"
Posted by tannl on 04-08-05 at 04:22 PM
>I was really disappointed in Angie.
> Yes, she did choke
>on the presentation but she
>choked because she had way
>too much on her plate.
> It seems like Chris'
>only task was to purchase
>the electronics and lose the
>credit card, and it's not
>really known what Alex did.
>
>
>She should've gone in the boardroom
>and played up that fact
>that she had too much
>on her plate. She
>was doing all the grunt
>work while Alex and Chris
>were being spectators. I think
>if she went after Alex
>more for delegating too much
>responsibility to her while not
>giving Chris much to do,
>she could've saved herself.


I agree. They lost this task because Alex and Chris went AWOL. They did very little.

"noone67"
Posted by noone67 on 04-08-05 at 09:38 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-08-05 AT 09:41 PM (EST)

I don't know why Angie didn't go after ALEX. He did nothing. And Trump? Obviously he likes Alex and Alex can do no wrong. He sees Alex through rose coloured glasses. Remember the task Alex was head of when he was on the other team? The burger one? He was the same as this time - delegated everything to the other team members and sat back and did nothing! And they lost...so that 'loser by association' thing Trump said? Sureeee.

"RE: Could Angie have saved herself?"
Posted by Creanie on 04-09-05 at 01:02 AM
I too thought Angie should've gone into attack mode, similar to what Erin did when her head was on the block (and it might've worked except for her getting cocky with that smart-a** remark). She should've deflected the criticism of her (terrible) presentation with a barrage of reminders about Chris' irresponsibility, immaturity and lack of contribution to the task, and Alex's project management M.O. that consists of dumping all the work on her while he schmoozes with the ladies. How he actually had the b*lls to make a list of "to-do's" that had Angie owning 20 or so while he had TWO. How as project manager, he should've owned the presentation ... remember how D.T. criticized Chris for not owning the negotiating when he was PM? D.T. put absolutely NO accountability on Alex as PM ... completely the opposite of how badly he wanted to hold Angie responsible as PM for the loss the week that George and Carolyn stood up for her. It's ridiculous how biased he is toward Alex. Regardless, Angie should've gone down fightin' to the bitter end. It's doubtful she could've overcome the bad presentation -- after all, at an executive level there really is no excuse for losing your composure -- but D.T. has been known to be swayed by a convincing defense.

D.T. is so sexist it's disgusting. Every time he introduces a female executive, it's "Don't let her looks fool you, she's a pit bull" -- how condescending, not to mention politically incorrect!!! How about how he asked Stephanie last week, "Do you really think you're STRONG enough to deal with these guys?" He's down to four men and TWO women...see the pattern here? He can't possibly pick a man for the third time without a HUGE backlash from female viewers. I think Tana's the only hope for the women and she has done an EXCELLENT job -- much better than lame Alex -- but it will be interesting to see how the fair-haired boy would possibly fall out of favor and come in second to ... A WOMAN!!!

"RE: Could Angie have saved herself?"
Posted by tannl on 04-09-05 at 03:09 AM
I agree
"RE: Could Angie have saved herself?"
Posted by singer on 04-11-05 at 09:52 AM
>I too thought Angie should've gone
>into attack mode, similar to
>what Erin did when her
>head was on the block
>(and it might've worked except
>for her getting cocky with
>that smart-a** remark). She
>should've deflected the criticism of
>her (terrible) presentation with a
>barrage of reminders about Chris'
>irresponsibility, immaturity and lack of
>contribution to the task, and
>Alex's project management M.O. that
>consists of dumping all the
>work on her while he
>schmoozes with the ladies.
>How he actually had the
>b*lls to make a list
>of "to-do's" that had Angie
>owning 20 or so while
>he had TWO. How
>as project manager, he should've
>owned the presentation ... remember
>how D.T. criticized Chris for
>not owning the negotiating when
>he was PM? D.T.
>put absolutely NO accountability on
>Alex as PM ... completely
>the opposite of how badly
>he wanted to hold Angie
>responsible as PM for the
>loss the week that George
>and Carolyn stood up for
>her. It's ridiculous how
>biased he is toward Alex.
> Regardless, Angie should've gone
>down fightin' to the bitter
>end. It's doubtful she
>could've overcome the bad presentation
>-- after all, at an
>executive level there really is
>no excuse for losing your
>composure -- but D.T. has
>been known to be swayed
>by a convincing defense.
>
>D.T. is so sexist it's disgusting.
> Every time he introduces
>a female executive, it's "Don't
>let her looks fool you,
>she's a pit bull" --
>how condescending, not to mention
>politically incorrect!!! How about
>how he asked Stephanie last
>week, "Do you really think
>you're STRONG enough to deal
>with these guys?" He's
>down to four men and
>TWO women...see the pattern here?
> He can't possibly pick
>a man for the third
>time without a HUGE backlash
>from female viewers. I
>think Tana's the only hope
>for the women and she
>has done an EXCELLENT job
>-- much better than lame
>Alex -- but it will
>be interesting to see how
>the fair-haired boy would possibly
>fall out of favor and
>come in second to ...
>A WOMAN!!!


Hear, hear Creanie! In total agreement.

--Singer

"RE: Could Angie have saved herself?"
Posted by Kelly_Smith on 04-11-05 at 04:13 PM
Agreed. I have no idea what he sees in Alex. The only good thing is that he's calm and composed and doesn't lose his cool easily. Otherwise he's an empty space.
"Alex never gave Angie time to prepare for the presentation. Therefore,"
Posted by tannl on 04-09-05 at 02:58 AM
I do not really know if anyone could have given a great presentation under the same circumstances when more than half the merchandize was not even there. It was Alex’s job to get Angie and the models to the presentation on time with all the merchandize.

Alex had no concept of time. Alex failed to notice the models were running late. If it were not for Angie, the models would not have arrived before the presentation. It was
Angie got them on the phone. In addition, Angie was the one who realized time was running out and that the only had 30 minutes left to make it to the meeting. Alex did not have a clue.

"RE: Alex never gave Angie time to prepare for the presentation. Therefore,"
Posted by Creanie on 04-09-05 at 11:43 AM
>I do not really know if
>anyone could have given a
>great presentation under the same
>circumstances when more than half
>the merchandize was not even
>there. It was Alex’s job
>to get Angie and the
>models to the presentation on
>time with all the merchandize.
>
>
>Alex had no concept of time.
>Alex failed to notice the
>models were running late. If
>it were not for Angie,
>the models would not have
>arrived before the presentation. It
>was
>Angie got them on the phone.
>In addition, Angie was the
>one who realized time was
>running out and that the
>only had 30 minutes left
>to make it to the
>meeting. Alex did not
>have a clue.


Oh believe me, I completely agree with you. And in the Boardroom, she should've used every one of your points to attack Alex's performance as PM. But at the end of the day, the ability to keep one's cool, and not get frazzed when things go wrong (e.g., Tanna with the logo fiasco) is absolutely non-negotiable ... that's the whole point of all these tasks, to see how these folks perform under pressure. There was no way Angie could've excused her poor presentation without admitting she caved under the pressure. The only way she could've saved herself was to go on the offense -- convince D.T. that Alex's overall poor project management on this and other tasks would make him a lousy Apprentice. (Remember how Erin almost succeeded with the "Mr. Trump, Chris chews tobacco!" line?) Attack, attack, attack ... she tried, but she just wasn't aggressive enough.

"RE: Could Angie have saved herself?"
Posted by Kelly_Smith on 04-11-05 at 04:02 PM
I just wrote smth similar in a different thread. I was waiting for her to say something to the effect of having just TOO much to do (which is the fault of the project manager - not properly allocating the work and ensuring that there was sufficient time throughout the whole process). I'm not a huge Angie fan but man, Trumpster made himself look bad for wanting to fire the only person who actually did something on the project!! Even if she did choke.. The other guys were of NO help whatsoever on this project.
"RE: Could Angie have saved herself?"
Posted by miss_ganda on 04-12-05 at 02:47 PM
In a word, NO !