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Thread Number: 147
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Original Message
"Poor Lisa"
Posted by ashleybfogg on 09-10-03 at 01:28 AM
She hasn't seen what we've seen. Hank is a beligerant, bossy. east coast guy...
don't choose him! She's so soft, he'll boss her into his idea of marriage, in the midwest someplace, where he can control her, and she'll never realize her own potential. Love, real love grows slowly. Let's take another look at Robert. He grows on you, doesn't he? So here's the picture: We pick Robert, she marries him ( for the money and the possibilities) and moves to LA. They find So Much in common, and she falls in love with this guy, they both get a boost in LA (the only place for both of them to be- then later, maybe Santa Cruz), he'll never boss her, and already loves her unconditionally. Poor Lisa- what a dreary life she'll have if it's Hank.
Table of contents
Messages in this discussion
"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by HappyDayz on 09-10-03 at 05:58 AM
ummm...exactly what have we seen that Lisa has not? She has seen everything from the show, and a whole lot more. And she still chooses Hank....and so do her friends and family (and all of them are better informed on every detail than the general public). I think Lisa needs a man with a strong and confident personality, and she and Hank will fit very nicely together. She's already chosen him, it's just a matter of voter results now....I wouldn't be surprised if they got married next week regardless of the results.
"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by wendyv on 09-10-03 at 06:35 AM
LAST EDITED ON 09-10-03 AT 06:36 AM (EST)

Well said HappyDayz!

"RE: Not so Poor Lisa"
Posted by bubbastan on 09-10-03 at 06:52 AM
I completely agree, HappyDayz! I'm not sure where all this Hank-hating is coming from, but I think that Lisa said it best when she said that if the worst shot you have of him is throwing a football.... So what if he doesn't get along with the other guys. If I were in his shoes, I wouldn't be pals with the same people who are vying for the object of my affection. The fact that he admits time and again that it bothers him to see her with the other guys is indicative of his strong feelings towards Lisa. If you really care for someone, how could you not be upset at seeing that person with other guys/gals? I think the other guys are all just jealous, plain and simple. Hank outclassed them, and they don't dig the fact that most of them were never even in serious consideration in Lisa's mind.
"RE: Not so Poor Lisa"
Posted by Sophie on 09-10-03 at 10:40 AM
Well said Bubbastan and Happy Days!


"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by Drive My Car on 09-10-03 at 07:27 AM
Robert? Why would she want to marry Robert? She doesn't love him.

Lisa said what she wanted to outcome to be, SHE WANTS HANK!
It is her life and the voters should respect what she asks for.
Besides, if another guy wins the vote, Lisa will marry Hank anyway. They won't get the money, but so what. She isn't going to Marry Robert no matter how the vote turns out.

"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by bystander on 09-10-03 at 10:17 AM
>SHE WANTS HANK!
>It is her life and the
>voters should respect what she
>asks for.

I thought the premise of the show was America gets to vote for who America wants to see Lisa with not necessarily who Lisa wants. C'mon, she's on a TV show to find a husband! Reality check here for Lisa. You know how the game is played. You agree to let America vote for who should get the money if they marry you for a year. Too bad if it doesn't work out the way you want it. That's the way the game is played. If it is true love then marry Hank and forget the million, unless of course that's all you care about in the first place.

"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by Sophie on 09-10-03 at 10:43 AM
LAST EDITED ON 09-10-03 AT 10:44 AM (EST)

The idea of the show is for America to help Lisa find a husband...one she loves and is happy to marry. Lisa has made it crystal clear that that person is Hank. I'm sure the producers have a way to throw out votes that are clearly jokes. Hank will win and she will marry him.


"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by managerr on 09-10-03 at 11:01 AM
The idea of the show is to entertain viewers and ultimately get high ratings.
"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by bystander on 09-10-03 at 11:04 AM
Unfortunately it failed at both those accomplishments. Maybe Simon should stick to American Idol.
"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by Bunny123 on 09-10-03 at 07:49 AM
I am from the east coast and just because he is does not mean that he will be a bossy husband. He was probably tired of being couped up in that house for several weeks with people like Renda and Joe which could be irritating.

If Lisa wants to be with Hank then obviously she sees the qualities she is looking for in a husband. They only show us 3-5 minute clips of the dates but she is the one that has to spend several hours (or overnight) with them . What I saw on their dates is that he is very open and honest about his feelings and very respectful of her.

Regarding how he gets along with some of the roomates, no person is perfect, we have our imperfections. If she is happy then I hope they are happy together. I love happy endings!!

"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by toodles on 09-10-03 at 11:33 AM
Do you know Hank? It is pretty ignorant to make a blanket statement about east coast husbands - as if they are all beligerant and bossy. That is just plain silly and offensive to east coasters. (Hank lives in Chicago and has spent a lot of his life in the mid-west and south, too.) And when have we seen these qualities from Hank, anyway? Are you watching the same show I'm watching? Your statements about him are completely unfounded from what you have seen on television - and that is all you have to go by. I am not taking this out on you, but it is frustrating to read, "Evan is this" and "Robert is that." You are seeing a one-hour show each week, during which each of these people have fewer than 10 minutes of air time. I don't understand why people make blanket statements and claim that anyone is anything - you do not know these people! Evan SEEMS nice, but he also SEEMS empty, if you ask me. Have we seen much personality from him? I would say no. However, I do not know Evan, so I will not claim to know what kind of person he is. Nor will I judge the other guys. I have my opinions...but I do not know them other than from 5-10 minute television clips.

I do happen to know Hank (that is the reason why I watched this silly show!) - I did a while back, anyway, and I know some of his close friends as well as one of his siblings. He is a good person and he has a solid background (I know this from much more than a tv show). Clearly he has potential for a successful career (a.k.a. he is not a volleyball coach), and they obviously have feelings for each other. He has shown us that he is also a normal guy who doesn't pretend to get along with everyone. What is wrong with that?? Hank definitely seems to be the most normal of that bunch (just from what they have shown on tv) - at least what I consider to be normal. (Good sense of humor, athletic, interested in sports, intelligent, kind, warm, sweet, and classy.) He is truly a good guy.

I have been reading from time to time to see what people are saying about Hank, and I finally had to chime in. My prediction: They may not get married on television (it would not surprise me if he didn't want to do that), but I think they will stay together. Whatever happens, this has been entertaining! She is lucky to have found Hank.

"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by kcstrip on 09-10-03 at 01:57 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-10-03 AT 01:59 PM (EST)

>I do happen to know Hank
>(that is the reason why
>I watched this silly show!)

So you DO admit it's all silly?! So if Hank is such a wonderful guy, why then is he still single and trying to find love on a "silly show"?

>Clearly he
>has potential for a successful
>career (a.k.a. he is not
>a volleyball coach),

No, he just wants run a wine vineyard, excuse me, "organic" wine vineyard, out in "who-knows-where". That's stability for ya. Remind anyone of "Green Acres"?

"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by toodles on 09-11-03 at 11:43 AM
I did not say that I personally would ever go on this show. But that does not mean that the people who did are not good people.

As for Hank's goals and aspirations - what is wrong with that? I know a CEO of a winery who does very well, thank you. You might want to learn about things a bit more before you rip on them.

I am not interested in fighting with you - nice attitude.

"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by kcstrip on 09-11-03 at 04:06 PM
>As for Hank's goals and aspirations
>- what is wrong with
>that? I know a CEO
>of a winery who does
>very well, thank you. You
>might want to learn about
>things a bit more before
>you rip on them.

And I know "vollyeball coaches" who are doing very well, thank you! You might want take a little bit of your own advice!

>I am not interested in fighting
>with you - nice attitude.

Nice attitude? Look, if you can't take a little criticism, then don't post, especially here, because there will be people who disagree with you.

Toodles, Toodles


"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by toodles on 09-12-03 at 03:10 PM
You are right - I shouldn't have ripped on the volleyball coach thing. I guess my thinking was that it would be different if it were at the collegiate level, or if he were also a teacher (I am used to teachers also being coaches - not having people who are just coaches). But you are right about that - I did not mean to offend anyone.

You are right that people are going to disagree - that is what makes this fun! I read your message with a different tone than I think you intended.

"RE: organic wine vineyard"
Posted by LoftStory on 09-12-03 at 00:18 AM
Actually, Hank wants to start an "organic farm and vineyard".

You know who else runs an organic farm? Prince Charles.

"RE: organic wine vineyard"
Posted by PIPPIE on 09-12-03 at 06:49 AM
BIG DEAL.
"RE: organic wine vineyard"
Posted by kcstrip on 09-12-03 at 11:15 AM
>Actually, Hank wants to start an
>"organic farm and vineyard".
>
>You know who else runs an
>organic farm? Prince Charles.

And you know why? Because he's a Prince. He has the fortune of an entire country backing him. If his farm goes belly up he's still living in a palace.


"RE: organic wine vineyard"
Posted by LoftStory on 09-13-03 at 02:02 AM
Prince Charles doesn't receive any money from the State.
Granted, he's a wealthy man, but his money comes from land holdings (including the proceeds from his farm).
"RE: organic wine vineyard"
Posted by Cupidcruiser on 09-13-03 at 06:28 PM
http://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/about/duchy/ has more info on Prince Charles, whose holdings earned a surplus of 7,800,000 pounds last year (which would be more than $8 million in US dollars, I believe).

He's rich just like Hank will be, but Hank's money will have to come from Lisa's $1 million dowry plus HER earnings--it doesn't seem like Hank has any experience in farming or running a business, so no wonder he told her she has to keep working!

"RE: organic wine vineyard"
Posted by LoftStory on 09-13-03 at 08:46 PM
8 million pounds sterling would be about $12 million American dollars.
"RE: organic wine vineyard"
Posted by kcstrip on 09-13-03 at 10:00 PM
The point is, Prince Charles's resources far exceed anything Hank could ever have. It doesn't matter how much he actually earns in income, or where it comes from, he's royalty. He will never even be allowed to live in poverty. No matter what happens to his vinyard, he will always be rich.
"RE: organic wine vineyard"
Posted by LoftStory on 09-14-03 at 08:27 PM
I don't understand the assumption that Hank's farm/vineyard would fail . . . Even if it did, I don't see why that would be such a horrible thing. I would respect the effort and admire that someone had the courage to follow his dreams. If Hank had to return to his old career, he certainly wouldn't be living in poverty.

Is the problem generally with starting his own business, or specifically with an organic farm and vineyard? If it's the latter, why? What is it about a farm, vineyard, or organic enterprise that would be particularly difficult to make successful? Some of the posters have seemed to imply that organic farming is just for deadbeats. Huh?
Yes, Prince Charles has money to fall back on if his farm weren't a success. But it IS.
And Hank has a skill to fall back on that would support him quite nicely. I mean, he's an options trader, not a street hustler!

As I've said before, I'm not absolutely convinced that Hank is the right man for Lisa - but I just don't get the criticism of his entrepreneurial ambitions.

"RE: organic wine vineyard"
Posted by Cupidcruiser on 09-15-03 at 00:41 AM
LAST EDITED ON 09-15-03 AT 01:02 AM (EST)

HANK DOESN'T SEEM TO HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE IN WINE MAKING (oops, sorry, thought I was Pippie there for a moment). Anyway, someone's chance of success in his own business would seem to be dependent on his knowledge of the field and his willingness to devote himself 100 percent to the enterprise. I'm sure Hank has the latter but he doesn't seem to have experience in farming (especially organic, which is SO much work) and winemaking, which is SO specialized.

But I certainly wish all the guys the best of luck in their future endeavours. Hank and the other men don't need to "win" Lisa to pursue their dreams.

"RE: organic wine vineyard"
Posted by PIPPIE on 09-15-03 at 01:36 AM
CUPIDCRUISER, HAHAHA
"RE: organic wine vineyard"
Posted by PIPPIE on 09-15-03 at 01:40 AM
THEY DON'T NEED LISA TO PURSUE THEIR DREAMS BUT THEY SURE COULD USE A COOL MILLION AND IF LISA CAME WITH IT, WHY NOT??
"RE: organic wine vineyard"
Posted by tamarama on 09-15-03 at 02:06 PM
FYI --

I know a successful broker who also runs a successful mint farm.

And brokers work longer hours than traders.

"RE: organic wine vineyard"
Posted by Cupidcruiser on 09-16-03 at 01:53 AM
Let's suggest a mint farm to Hank--I have a whole back yard full of it and it certainly doesn't require much effort. My brand is Mojito Mosquito--what does your friend do with his organic mint?
"RE: organic wine vineyard"
Posted by tamarama on 09-16-03 at 10:29 AM
Alas, I only know him peripherally, so I don't know alot of the details, but my understanding is he does fairly well with it --

Doesn't make enough to live comfortably on, but is making some money.

"RE: organic wine vineyard"
Posted by ashleybfogg on 09-16-03 at 00:44 AM
too funny you are, cruiser.
(look out - maybe my next post will be "Poor Pippie") .

i, too, think they'll all be fine, but to tell you the truth, if Lisa tried to be on Survivor, and they contacted her, well, she may not be ready for the old farm just yet. she'd like it up in Napa, but you need more than a mil to get going there. - like you say, winemaking's tough enough, organic's tougher.
i see tv in her future - she could do an exercise show with robert- and make all those funny faces - what a way to make her 15 minutes last...i think we'll see them - at least her and evan and robert and even hank - but only if he marries her. see? i'm open...
hey
TAKE IT EASY ON THE PIPSTER, WILL YA? (oops, over protective much?)
and thanks for your contributions - you made me laugh-alot.


ash

"RE: organic wine vineyard"
Posted by PIPPIE on 09-16-03 at 08:35 AM
dearest ashleybgfogg, you have been there for me since the beginning! thanks for your support. i am turning over a new leaf since i have seen the error of my ways. from... pip
"RE: organic wine vineyard"
Posted by ashleybfogg on 09-16-03 at 11:51 AM
dearest Pippie
So happy to hear that.
Everybody will be delighted to read your posts, baby!
i guess they just had a hard time with the visuals -
thanks for all your posts - we have a lot of fun and the 'poor lisa'thread would never have been so hot without you.

ashleybfogg
"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by smiley on 09-10-03 at 02:33 PM
welcome to the boards Toodles!

I think Hank is great and I am sure him and Lisa will really try and make it work. Don't mind those people here who are so miserable in their lives they can't share the happiness that others share. It would be great if you could keep us up to date with the "after the show" info

Thanks

"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by PIPPIE on 09-11-03 at 10:36 AM
POOR LISA. SHE CHOSE HANK. THEY WILL NEVER MAKE IT. HANK IS OVER CONFIDENT AND CONDESCENDING. THAT IS THE WAY HE COMES OFF. I BET HE WILL BE CONTROLLING TOO. POOR LISA
"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by ashleybfogg on 09-11-03 at 02:52 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-11-03 AT 02:54 PM (EST)

thanks for that. I wasn't trying to say he's a bad guy, but you can see the
controlling energy there. All these guys jumped on my case - lighten up!
Lets just say I have some experience, and one condescending remark can get by you,
but it usually means there are thousands more hidden. The aggressive competition-the bully attitude with the other guys, (and how about men who behave that differenly aroung men then they do aroung mixed company- or you? Danger!) and the take off your clothes remark - ?
red flags, red flags red flags.

"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by LoftStory on 09-12-03 at 01:54 AM
When has Hank been condescending?

I'm not necessarily a Hank fan - I think that he's the best (for Lisa) of the bunch, but I'm not convinced that they should get married, or even that this is love. Criticism about his competitiveness and temper is valid, but I haven't seen him say anything condescending to anyone . . .

I honestly don't see the problem with his "I want to take all of your clothes off . . . I want to make love to you" statement. It was honest (he wasn't saying it to get into her pants, since there wasn't a chance of that anyway, with the date ending soon), it wasn't rude (the phrasing was definitely on the "respectful" (as opposed to "lewd") end of the spectrum), and it was of-the-moment. He didn't say it over dinner with her parents, he said it while they were cuddling. And frankly, I would be concerned if a 25-year-old man didn't want to sleep with a beautiful woman he was considering marrying. In fact, it's very unnatural that they haven't had any real privacy (and therefore intimacy), up until last night's episode (with the overnight trips). I'm not saying that it's unnatural that they haven't slept together -- there's no need to rush sex -- but it's obvious that he's attracted to her, he cares about her, and he's sexually frustrated! He expressed that, and not in an inappropriate way. I don't see what the big deal is.

Also, most any guy will tell you that they behave differently around other guys (that is, their friends) than they do in mixed company. For one thing, guys (especially guys in their twenties) talk about sex, etc., constantly (or at least a lot more than they'd like us to know), and they say things that they would never say in front of their wives, girlfriends, sisters, mothers, female friends, or colleagues. Most guys are base. Even if they aren't talking about sex, they're talking about stupid things like wrestling and beer (*sarcasm*), and they know that women don't want to hear that crap. In public, mixed company, or formal situations (such as being on TV), they try to step it up a notch.

"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by PIPPIE on 09-13-03 at 10:28 AM
A PERSON'S REAL CHARACTER IS REVEALED BY HOW HE TREATS EVERYONE, NOT JUST THOSE HE THINKS ARE WORTHY OF HIS FRIENDSHIP.
"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by ashleybfogg on 09-13-03 at 05:01 PM
I couldn't agree more, and that's all I was saying. There were just a couple of red flags, and if that shows up even when you know the world is watching you, look out when they're not. I never meant to offend anyone, i just couldn't understand why more people weren't seeing what might be Hank's 'true' self.
"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by Cupidcruiser on 09-13-03 at 06:31 PM
Pippie, you gotta turn off those caps--it means YOU'RE SCREAMING AT US. go ahead use all lowercase if you don't want to be bother with changing between caps and lowercase, but it's really hard to read your stuff
"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by PIPPIE on 09-14-03 at 09:49 AM
I LAUGH THAT CAPS OFFEND YOU. IT MAY MEAN SCREAMING IN COMPUTER LANGUAGE,HOWEVER, THE STATEMENTS ARE SIMPLY MATTER OF FACT AND I CHOOSE CAPS. DON'T SWEAT THE SMALL STUFF. I WILL LET YOU KNOW WHEN I AM SCREAMING.
YOUR ASSESSMENT ISN'T ACCURATE JUST AS YOUR VIEWS ON HANK AND LISA AREN'T EITHER.
"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by HappyDayz on 09-14-03 at 10:08 AM
LMAO....Hey CupidCruiser ~ I don't agree with your views on Hank and Lisa either! Bwahahaha! (Sounds like you've been mistaken for a Hank and Lisa fan!) Where's my beanie babies?
"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by Cupidcruiser on 09-15-03 at 00:36 AM
I am crying in my Constant Comment over this very personal insult right now. I try and try to do the right thing, to help poor Pippie in her time of need and what do I get? Nothing but a cyber slap in the face and even worse, the implication that my darling Dominic has been overtaken in my heart by Hankbert, although my darling Dominic will be my true 1,000 vote choice forever.

I am true to my word and WILL send the Hank and Lisa beanie babies to HappyDayz and that other Hankster who shall go unamed, but poor Pippie--she shall be beanie-less, or rather, BEANIE-LESS!!!!!

"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by PIPPIE on 09-15-03 at 01:47 AM
DEAR CUPIDCRUISER, I AM LAUGHING VERY HARD RIGHT NOW. SEE, I AM NOT SCREAMING, BUT LAUGHING MY BUTT OFF THAT YOU TAKE COMPUTER GRAMMAR SO SERIOUSLY. THANK YOU FOR THE LESSON, BUT I'LL JUST STICK WITH THE CAPS AND WILL LIVE WITH THE KNOWLEDGE THAT YOU MEANT WELL AND TRIED TO REFORM ME.
"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by PaGuy on 09-14-03 at 11:33 AM
I think that your attitude towards others speaks volumes about you, Pippie. "I LAUGH THAT CAPS OFFEND YOU." Apparently you don't much care about other people's feelings. That's sad.

"HOWEVER, THE STATEMENTS ARE SIMPLY MATTERS OF FACT". In fact, your statements are matters of opinion, not fact, just as most everyone's statements are in here. You can't possibly know Hank's true personality, unless you know him. You are basing your opinion, as am I, on a few snippets of video taken from many hours over the course of many weeks. We happen to differ on our interpretation of that video, but what we also differ on is our basic outlook on life. You apparently want to see the worst in people, whereas I (and others on this board) want to see the best. I'd rather go through life with my attitude.

"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by HappyDayz on 09-14-03 at 11:44 AM
Welcome to the board PaGuy! Hope you enjoy it here.....I like your outlook!
"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by PIPPIE on 09-15-03 at 01:52 AM
SO PAGUY, CAPS REALLY HURT YOUR FEELINGS??? OH BOY, THIS IS SADDER THAN I THOUGHT.
"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by ashleybfogg on 09-13-03 at 11:43 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-14-03 AT 02:17 PM (EST)

Dearest PIPPIE
go ahead and use all the CAPS or lowercase you want. Personally I THINK THAT YOUR STATEMENT WARRANTED CONSIDERATION, not grammatical Criticism.

"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by Cupidcruiser on 09-15-03 at 00:45 AM
Well, technically, that was not a grammatical criticism--unfortunately it was simply a gentle suggestion in the punctuation/capitalization area. No beanies for you either!
"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by ashleybfogg on 09-16-03 at 02:04 AM
i just had to go back and check this out - see, she just got so yelled at - not by you, not at first. truthfully, her caps didn't bother me until everbody started posting about it - a gentler tone may still be key - she might drop that caps key if we let her choose...
no beanies? c'mon - this thread unleashed such passion!
"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by PIPPIE on 09-15-03 at 01:57 AM
DEAR ASHLEYBFOGG, THANX FOR THE SUPPORT. THIS HAS NOW BECOME A FORUM ON CAPS. DO YOU BELIEVE IT?
"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by smiley on 09-15-03 at 08:03 AM
caps = attention seeker


*enough said*

"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by PIPPIE on 09-15-03 at 08:46 AM
HI SMILEY, WHERE'S THE LOVE? CAPS= MATTER OF PREFERENCE, NOTHING ELSE. NO POLITICAL STATEMENT , JUST CAPS.
"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by tamarama on 09-15-03 at 02:11 PM
Hey folks,

At least the caps make it easy to spot what to scroll past.

(oops, sorry. That was nasty)

"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by smiley on 09-15-03 at 02:58 PM
BBAAWWWAAAA

thats the funniest thing I have read all day

"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by PIPPIE on 09-15-03 at 09:22 PM
I LOVE IT.
"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by ashleybfogg on 09-15-03 at 11:31 PM
dearest pippie
personally, i think if someone had taken this gentle path with you a long thread ago, you would have been receptive. all those who were critical and mean just proved a big thing - you don't have to post in caps in order to shout at somebody. so sorry, pip those guys were yelling too.

even so, it's been an interesting thread, eh? THANKS FOR YOUR INPUT!


ashley

"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by Corie161 on 09-10-03 at 12:31 PM
>She hasn't seen what we've seen.
>Hank is a beligerant, bossy.
>east coast guy...
>don't choose him! She's so soft,
>he'll boss her into his
>idea of marriage, in the
>midwest someplace, where he can
>control her, and she'll never
>realize her own potential.

Maybe I'm dumb, but are there vineyards in Chicago? You want her to pick Robert and live on the west coast, but it's Hank who has the dream to own a vineyard, are they not mostly on the west coast? (p.s. I know nothing about wine making, so maybe I'm wrong)

"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by Silvergirl1 on 09-10-03 at 04:18 PM

There are vineyards in places all over the US. I visited one in Missouri, know of others in New York, Maryland, and Pennsylvania. I guess California is more famous for it's wines, though.

Silvergirl

Transportation made possible by Ice Cat creations.
"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by leogirl_21 on 09-10-03 at 07:28 PM
People can we please keep this civil?
Okay, I just wanted to say that since most of the people that replied to this topic want Hank to win...thats perfectly fine...whatever...but I don't think its very that some people are trashing Evan in the process of praising Hank. No one's perfect, so let's leave Evan out of this...no need to belittle him.
"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by Silvergirl1 on 09-10-03 at 08:59 PM

leogirl_21, if you see something that looks uncivil, feel free to press the alert button, but be aware that the mods are busy and don't like people crying wolf.

I haven't said anything in my post that would be construed as uncivil, and yet you have replied to me, otherwise, I would not be replying to you.

Only one person has mentioned Evan in this thread, and I don't know how the comments made in that post could be described as "trashing" him.

Just my 2 cents.

Silvergirl

Transportation made possible by Ice Cat creations.

"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by toodles on 09-11-03 at 11:29 AM
If you're "trashing Evan" comments are a response to my post, you should re-read what I wrote. I was not belittling him - in fact, my point was that it is a bit ridiculous that people label any of these guys because they do not know them. I did use Evan as my example, but I think that other people understood my point. (And thanks to those who defended it.)

If I did want to "trash" Evan, however, I would be entitled. No one is telling people not to call Hank controlling, beligerent, etc.; if anyone is getting "trashed," it is Hank. He is my friend, and I am not whining about how people are belittling him. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion - however, as I said before, it is nice to acknowledge that we know almost nothing about these people and can only go on what we see on tv. I simply wanted to share my personal experience with Hank and defend him in that way, since I do happen to know him. I had no intentions of belittling anyone else in the process. Personally, I just don't see a reason for it. In fact, I too give Evan credit for wishing Hank and Lisa well - I would have expected nothing less from anyone in his position. I'm sure he's a nice guy.

"vineyards in WI"
Posted by macciesmom on 09-12-03 at 11:26 AM
Corie 161-
Believe it or not, life does exist other places than CA! Yes there are vineyards and wineries in other parts of the US. For instance, in a very small finger of Wisconsin I know of 5 thriving ones. I also know MI, MN & IL have vinelands. As the vintner told them, having a vineyard is hard work. So I give Hank alot of credit for pursuing his dream.
"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by sassyblonde241 on 09-10-03 at 10:19 PM
Wow, not so sure what we have seen to make that kind of assessment of Hank.
But, I have seen that she actually really likes him and has said as much. She only feels friendship for Robert and even that didn't come very easy. They have had many awkward moments where they didn't have anything to say to each other, including their last evening spent together.
I don't know what the "spoilers" think they are spoiling. So, maybe they choose the guy they know she is not interested in to win. She is not obligated to marry that person. The very least she can get out of this is that she has met someone that she could possibly have a future with, with or without the money.
And as far as the statement if he is such a great guy why is he here? I know alot of people who are great men or women who have a hard time finding that special someone. Nothing unusual about that at all.
"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by bystander on 09-11-03 at 11:39 AM
>And as far as the statement if he is such a great guy why is he >here? I know alot of people who are great men or women who have >a hard time finding that special someone. Nothing unusual about >that at all.


Yeah, if this doesn't work there's always the personal ads, maybe a dating service, or his mommy might know some nice girls from card club.

"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by Joyful on 09-11-03 at 02:37 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-11-03 AT 02:39 PM (EST)

>Yeah, if this doesn't work there's always the personal ads, maybe a dating service, or his mommy might know some nice girls from card club. <

bystander, people find each other in many ways. Who are we to say just because people meet through an ad, or on the internet or on a TV show that they are losers who are doomed to fail?
My neighboor met her husband through a personal ad, 8 years and 2 kids later they are still going strong.
Love isn't always sitting across from you at the bar, or at the desk next to you at work, or a member of your homeroom...simply put sometimes you have to search for love outside of your comfort zone. I'm from Kansas and I had to go all the way to Hawaii to find the love of my life. (married 14 years now)

I mean why else would Cupid have wings?

"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by bubbastan on 09-11-03 at 11:19 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-11-03 AT 11:21 PM (EST)

Ah Joyful, you are just too sweet. I always like reading your posts. I hope after Cupid is done that you will come on over to the Survivor boards. They're a great place to hang out, and Fanatics can always use some new voices.

*edited because my brain - fingers aren't working together too well today.

"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by Joyful on 09-12-03 at 02:45 AM
Ahhh...bubbastan, you're making me blush!!
Thanks for the kind post, I only wish I could get through to the Robert voters...to convert one Robert voter would be the true fairy tale ending! (not really, I just wanted to live up to your nice words) And I do watch Survivor (only since Australia though)and I'll be chatting with you on the Survivor Boards soon
"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by bystander on 09-12-03 at 11:26 AM
My apologies to anyone who found true love through a personal ad, the internet or by any other means (except if your mommy found them at card club).
"Confusion"
Posted by LoftStory on 09-12-03 at 00:58 AM
I don't understand your post. First of all, Hank isn't from the East Coast - he's from Chicago, which is in the Midwest. But if Hank *were* from the East Coast, what makes you think that he would want to "boss" Lisa into marriage "in the midwest somewhere"? Why would it be easier to "control" her (or anyone) in the Midwest than elsewhere?

Second, why do you think that Hank is bossy, and that Lisa is soft? (Notice that I'm not disputing that it seems that Hank has been a bit belligerent in the house with the other suitors.) Lisa seems like she's very much able to handle him (and the other suitors). And what has Lisa not seen that we have? I mean, she's seen all the clips - they show them on a giant screen in the studio when we see them at home!

Third, you say that "love, real love, grows slowly" - but that Robert "already loves her unconditionally". If you believe the first statement, then you would have to doubt the sincerity and tenacity of Robert's "love" for Lisa.

Fourth, why is LA "the only place for to be"? And "then later, maybe Santa Cruz"?

"RE: Confusion"
Posted by macciesmom on 09-12-03 at 11:36 AM
Actually I believe I read that Hank was born and raised in Florida somewhere. After his dad died, the family moved to the mid-west. So the East Coast tab (as a slam) really doesn't fit him exactly.
"RE: Confusion"
Posted by macciesmom on 09-12-03 at 11:45 AM
If any of you Hank fans out there want to read about him check out www.new-press.com/news/lifestyle/030826cupid.html. It's a nice article from a Fort Myers newspaper. I read it several weeks ago so hope you can still access it.
"RE: Confusion"
Posted by ashleybfogg on 09-13-03 at 11:37 PM
well gee, that's a point??. but last time i looked at a map, florida was where?
OK, let's add east coast guys to southern guys and see what happens...
ashleyb
"Dr. Hank and Mr. Hyde"
Posted by pangaea4 on 09-12-03 at 02:12 AM
I can't believe so many people are as blinded to Hank's personality as Lisa is. From the beginning something about Hank just didn't sit well with me (apart from the fact that his name is HANK, for crying out loud). And all these dates with Lisa edited as if they were 'fairy tales' and that he's Mr. Perfect made me despise him all the more. The producers, in their editing of the dates, are clearly trying to make him look like Prince Charming.

But then, the other guys are telling us he's anything BUT that. They've repeatedly said he's a bossy, controlling, practically bipolar person. They've tried in vain to warn Lisa about Dr. Hank and Mr. Hyde, but she's so buffaloed she just shrugs them off. These guys obviously care for Lisa's well-being. We've seen thir affections toward her. They've been around (and LIVING WITH) Hank for just as long as (if not longer than) she has. I don't think they're doing it out of jealousy. Why else would they go out of the way to advise her of this? Why would Joe, after being kicked off, vocally endorse Evan? I mean, what did he care now that he was out of the running? They've obviously seen a side of Hank they don't want Lisa to be exposed to.

Then again, maybe Lisa is a sort of masochist who likes to be controlled like that. At any rate, it would've been nice to learn more about her personality over the course of the show...if indeed she HAS any. Still, in the name of entertainment, I'd like to see Rah-buht win...and then see the fiasco ensue. And see the girls start up the waterworks, and all the "boo-hoo, they didn't take this seriously!" Well, of course not. I mean, what do we really have to gain by trying to arrange a marriage for a cute-but-bland girl with vicious, shallow friends? So forget the fairy tale ending with Hank. His whole 'aw-shucks' exterior was just a facade.

"RE: Dr. Hank and Mr. Hyde"
Posted by PIPPIE on 09-12-03 at 06:12 AM
ISN'T IT AMAZING THAT THE MEN WHO WERE INTERESTED IN LISA'S WELL-BEING AND WANT TO SEE HER HAPPY, WARNED HER ABOUT HANK AND SHE AND HER FRIENDS HAVE A DEAF EAR AND BLIND EYE REGARDING HANK.
THEY KNOW ABOUT HANK FROM LIVING WITH HIM. EVAN WAS THE ONLY ONE WHO DID NOT SPEAK AGAINST HIM AND THAT IS PROBABLY BECAUSE HE IS A GENTLEMAN.
LISA SHOULD NOT BE SO DESPERATE TO GET MARRIED BECAUSE SHE HAS A LOT GOING FOR HER. I'D ALMOST RATHER SEE HER WITH ROBERT THAN HANK AND I NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD THINK THAT. HER CHANCES MAY BE THE SAME FOR THE MARRIAGE TO WORK OUT AS IT WOULD WITH HANK.
"RE: Dr. Hank and Mr. Hyde"
Posted by macciesmom on 09-12-03 at 11:58 AM
I am always amazed at the negativity of some people. It seems they just don't want people to be happy ever. Could it be that their own lives are so lacking in happiness and contentment? Jealousy is a powerful emotion and can cause such havoc when left go unleashed. Could it possibly be that the guys in the house are just plain jealous of Hank? I agree with many of you that it would be better for Lisa and Hank to spend time after the show to get to know each other better instead of pushing the wedding show thing. Lisa is clearly enamored with Hank right now. Time will show the real Hank and the real Lisa. My mother always told me that anyone can put on an act for 6 months, but it's hard to sustain over the long haul. With that said, I must admit I've been a Hank fan from the beginning. He just shows more substance. The others seem to be in it for the exposure. Lisa's decision is clearly Lisa's decision - not mine, not all of yours. Money or no money, she will go with her heart, right or wrong, good or bad.
"RE: Dr. Hank and Mr. Hyde"
Posted by PIPPIE on 09-13-03 at 10:22 AM
WHAT YOU SAY IS NEGATIVITY IS OBJECTIVE OBSERVATION. I THINK PEOPLE WOULD NOT BE NEGATIVE IF THEY THOUGHT SHE WAS MAKING THE RIGHT CHOICE. YOU MAKE PERSONAL ATTACKS AGAINST OPINIONS VOICED BECAUSE THEY DON'T MATCH YOUR VIEWS. THIS IS STILL AMERICA, ISN'T IT? PEOPLE ARE ENTITLED TO DISAGREE WITH YOU AND NOT BE LACKING IN CONTENTMENT OR BE LABELED AS JEALOUS.
I SERIOUSLY DOUBT IF ANY OF THE GUYS ARE JEALOUS OF HANK, JUST CONCERNED THAT LISA WILL NOT BE HAPPY FOR THE LONG HAUL.
"RE: Dr. Hank and Mr. Hyde"
Posted by Cupidcruiser on 09-13-03 at 06:33 PM
Again, my dear, no offense intended, but using ALL CAPS is a no-no unless you mean to SCREAM AT US WITH EVERY ONE OF YOUR POSTS.
"RE: Dr. Hank and Mr. Hyde"
Posted by PIPPIE on 09-14-03 at 09:54 AM
GET OVER IT
"RE: Dr. Hank and Mr. Hyde"
Posted by Swami on 09-14-03 at 12:39 PM
Pssst... Pippie.
What happens when you ignore a simple posting protocol which everyone else follows is that people start to ignore your posts. Just sayin'.


IceCat is a Genius

"RE: Dr. Hank and Mr. Hyde"
Posted by Cupidcruiser on 09-15-03 at 00:27 AM
Exactly, Swami, he/she ain't gonna find no cool Cupid beanie babies showing up in HER mailbox
"RE: Dr. Hank and Mr. Hyde"
Posted by PIPPIE on 09-15-03 at 02:11 AM
DEAR SWAMI, POSTED PROTOCOL? I WAS NOT AWARE OF POSTED PROTOCOL,TRUELY. I DEFER TO YOU BECAUSE YOUR REVIEWS ARE HYSTERICAL.
"RE: Dr. Hank and Mr. Hyde"
Posted by Silvergirl1 on 09-15-03 at 04:46 PM

Swami is referring to "simple posting protocol", not POSTED PROTOCOL.

Click here to see some rules of Netiquette. In other words, get educated about the rules of posting on message boards on the net. Typing in all caps indicates shouting. If you post that way all the time, it indicates the need to learn how to type on a computer keyboard.

How old are you, BTW?

Silvergirl

Anyone want to clam up with me?

"RE: Dr. Hank and Mr. Hyde"
Posted by Joyful on 09-15-03 at 06:16 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-15-03 AT 06:18 PM (EST)

Thanks Silvergirl for the posting etiquette info. Although I don't post in all caps (I'm not insane you know) I did find the guide on how to make all the faces informative I think I'll try them all now

:-0
:-@
:-l
:-e
:-<
:-D

I won't know if they worked until I post.... is there a crossing your fingers face????

I'm bummed, they didn't work...insert sad face here

"RE: Dr. Hank and Mr. Hyde"
Posted by Cupidcruiser on 09-15-03 at 08:46 PM
:0 :@ :| :e
"RE: Dr. Hank and Mr. Hyde"
Posted by ashleybfogg on 09-15-03 at 11:42 PM
Hi Joyful, ash here again. after you asked, i replied (down at the end of the thread) then i checked your post 100 - so i see you know where the guide is -
cool. i think the only thing you missed is this - except for the regular smiley, sad, and wink, skip the nose -
ashley
"RE: Dr. Hank and Mr. Hyde"
Posted by Swami on 09-16-03 at 00:19 AM
This message board has its own emotion icons, which are listed at the top of each reply box. Click on the words Emotion icon short cuts (when in reply mode) and you can pick the one that suits your mood best.

There is also a Help Forum, which can be found by clicking "Off Topic" in the tool bar to the left. In the Help Forum is information on uploading pictures, using sig pics, etc. Whatever your question is--somebody has probably asked it already.

Also when you formulate a reply, you have three buttons at the bottom of the reply box--"preview", "post message" and "reset". When you hit "preview" everything you just entered, including emoticons, pictures, links, etc. will appear at the top of that page (just scroll down to find your correctible message box) This gives you a chance to make corrections before you hit "post message". You can preview the same message multiple times if you want to tweak something (like a summary before you post it ). You can abandon any reply you do not wish to post by hitting the back button.


IceCat is a Genius

"RE: Dr. Hank and Mr. Hyde"
Posted by Joyful on 09-16-03 at 03:46 AM
LAST EDITED ON 09-16-03 AT 03:54 AM (EST)

Thank You Ashley and Swami (I knew I liked you for a reason besides your fantastic summaries) It was nice of you to help a message board virgin like myself Will it annoy everybody if I fill my posts with faces from now on????

"RE: Dr. Hank and Mr. Hyde"
Posted by PIPPIE on 09-15-03 at 09:30 PM
MISS MANNERS. I THOUGHT THE MESSAGE BOARD WAS ABOUT EXPRESSING VIEWS INSTEAD OF NETIQUETTE. WILL GO INTO CAPS REHAB ONE DAY IF THAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING ON THIS BOARD. FIRST I HAVE TO ADMIT THERE IS A PROBLEM AND SERIOUSLY THINK THIS IS NO BIGGIE.
"RE: Dr. Hank and Mr. Hyde"
Posted by PIPPIE on 09-15-03 at 09:35 PM
MISS MANNERS. I THOUGHT THE MESSAGE BOARD WAS ABOUT EXPRESSING VIEWS INSTEAD OF NETIQUETTE. WILL GO INTO CAPS REHAB ONE DAY IF THAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING ON THIS BOARD. FIRST I HAVE TO ADMIT THERE IS A PROBLEM AND SERIOUSLY THINK THIS IS NO BIGGIE.
"RE: Dr. Hank and Mr. Hyde"
Posted by PIPPIE on 09-15-03 at 09:39 PM
HI SILVERGIRL. I CLICKED ON THAT LINK AND FOUND IT VERY INFORMATIVE. THANX
"RE: Dr. Hank and Mr. Hyde"
Posted by Silvergirl1 on 09-16-03 at 04:25 PM
You are welcome, Pippie.
Silvergirl

Tonight!

"RE: Dr. Hank and Mr. Hyde"
Posted by tamarama on 09-12-03 at 12:19 PM
Have you ever been thrust into a living situation with a large number of people you don't know?

I have. Several times.

I have shown up in a new city for a short-term job, and moved into a house that 12 near-complete strangers share.

It can be HELL. (it can be fun too, but it's usually hell.)

These may be people that you might enjoy working with, or going out for a beer with -- but CANNOT STAND LIVING WITH.

I've spent 10-12 week intervals living with 29-year-old supposed adults who eat other people's groceries, leave bags of fast food garbage strewn throughout an entire house -- and DON'T KNOW WHAT IT MEANS TO WASH A DISH, MUCH LESS CLEAN A BATHROOM. As the elected "house frau" on one particular job, I actually had to call a meeting to tell ADULTS that if they have explosive diarrhea, please check out the toilet afterward so the rest of us don't have to repeatedly clean up their poop. (I'm sorry, but it's a true story.)

ANYONE acting like a Mr. Hyde in that type of living situation wouldn't make me think less of them for even a moment.

"RE: Dr. Hank and Mr. Hyde"
Posted by HappyDayz on 09-12-03 at 12:50 PM
Thank you! I've been in that situation also...and it's not pleasant. It's way too harsh to judge someone without having been there to see what the accusations are about. Hank's personality and maturity level is vastly different from most of the others also (probably because he was on his own from such a young age and his military school background). I see Hank talking to Lisa about all the difficult issues, and he talks to her in a caring, intelligent (and adult) way, and Lisa is the best judge and has to follow her own heart and instinct. Lisa may have have some moodiness too for all we know, in fact most of us do at one time or another, but it's up to Lisa and Hank to work out the issues together (and they both seem to be the type that is willing to work for what they want). I'd be willing to bet that a lot of those guys in that house were no 'walk in the park' to live with....Lisa may never even see Hank's supposed moodiness, it may all have been reactions to the environment he was in. I do have to say...I myself probably would not have thrown the football at Dom.....nope, not if Renda was standing anywhere within range.
"RE: Dr. Hank and Mr. Hyde"
Posted by Joyful on 09-12-03 at 05:01 PM
Here here Happydayzs!
I haven't lived with 10 or 12 other people but I did live with two girls during college. I grew up with these girls, we spent every summer at camp together, we spent every weekend at one anothers houses. At the end of 6 months I couldn't stand the sight of them!!! When you live with others especially ones so different from yourself and what you are used to being around (as in the case of Hank) it's SOOO hard! Throw in competition for the same girl and I'm surprised a physical fight never broke out! I have to worry about some of the others shallowness at not being bothered about living with these strangers and not being effected in the least about what was going on in their dates with Lisa. Hank may have been cool and standoffish but, hey, he is human after all!!! Like Lisa said if he was the same personality all the time it would freak her out. And if Hank had been all buddy buddy in the house then all you Hank-haters would have gone on and on about how fake he was.
Of course If Hank and Lisa do get married it's going to be a struggle...all marriage is. They are going to see each other in every possible mood, every flaw is going to come raging to the surface, that will be the true test of marriage and the depth of their feelings not how they met and why.
None of us have seen how Hank behaves when he is living with someone he truly likes and respects. To assume that he is always moody and belligerent and will boss Lisa around is a judgement we as viewers, and his housemates (who have everything to gain by making him look bad) do not have the information to make.
"RE: Dr. Hank and Mr. Hyde"
Posted by bubbastan on 09-12-03 at 09:09 PM
Well stated, Tamarama, and as usual, I find myself in total agreement with Happydayz and Joyful.

Try as I may, I can't recall one concrete moment where Hank showed himself to be some controlling, foul-tempered monster. The football clip -- oh for crying out loud, can we please get past that. It was a game (albeit a rather lame game to be playing inside a house) which BOTH Hank and Dom were engaging in. It wasn't like Hank randomly decided to chuck a football at Dom's head for no apparant reason.

And the clip where Hank is shown asking someone to do dishes who hasn't done any in a long time -- well, if that's a sign of being "controlling", then call me the Chief Comptroller. What's wrong with expecting so-called adults to clean up after themselves?? I sure as heck wouldn't be putting up with a bunch of skeevy pigs who expected others to play galley-slave to them. If you've ever had to live with more than one or two other people, you would know that if you don't call slobs on their bad behavior, things get real nasty, real quickly.

I'd love to hear of one concrete example where Hank was shown exhibiting any of these supposed "controlling" or "bi-polar" tendancies.

"RE: Dr. Hank and Mr. Hyde"
Posted by pangaea4 on 09-13-03 at 01:49 AM
>I'd love to hear of one
>concrete example where Hank was
>shown exhibiting any of these
>supposed "controlling" or "bi-polar" tendancies.
>

That's because the producers of the show have been trying to make him out as a sort of Prince Charming, and just throwing in the comments of the other guys as an afterthought. For me, it's really just a gut feeling...I'm sorry I can't go any further than that. But again, why did Joe endorse Evan instead of Hank? Joe obviously genuinely cared about Lisa, so if he really wanted what was best for her, why didn't he say "Vote for Hank"?

"RE: Dr. Hank and Mr. Hyde"
Posted by macciesmom on 09-13-03 at 09:19 AM
>But again, why did Joe endorse
>Evan instead of Hank?
>Joe obviously genuinely cared
>about Lisa, so if he really
>wanted what was best for her,
>why didn't he say "Vote for Hank"?

The answer to your question of WHY? JEALOUSY!!! Haven't you ever ganged up on someone in your life that you and your friends were jealous of? If you say no, than you are a saint!

"RE: Dr. Hank and Mr. Hyde"
Posted by beachgal on 09-14-03 at 01:46 PM
I couldn't be sure it is jealousy. If it were a group of girls, I'd say, YEAH it's because of full-on 200% jealousy.

Guys are different, most tell you like it is whether you're on their side or not. I really appreciate that about the male species. Dom seems like one of those guys.

"RE: Dr. Hank and Mr. Hyde"
Posted by tamarama on 09-15-03 at 02:01 PM
Ummmm, guys are just as bad in terms of jealousy, gossip, manipulation.

They just use different words.

Trust me. Just As Bad.

"RE: Dr. Hank and Mr. Hyde"
Posted by tamarama on 09-15-03 at 01:59 PM
>>Joe obviously genuinely cared about Lisa<<

I didn't see this part.

I saw a typical 'wanna be a high-roller' guy whose every date was inappropriately geared toward picturing their married life.

Frankly, I found him to be just as creepy as Robert.

"RE: Dr. Hank and Mr. Hyde"
Posted by PIPPIE on 09-13-03 at 10:38 AM
GIMME A BREAK! WHEN EVERYONE ELSE GETS ALONG WITH THE EXCEPTION OF ONE,.. IT IS SUSPECT. THE ONE WHO DOESN'T GET ALONG MUST HAVE SOME ISSUES. THEY DID NOT THROW CRIMINALS OR SOCIAL OUTCASTS IN THE HOUSE BUT A GROUP OF HIGHLY SCREENED GUYS.THE OTHERS WERE ABLE TO MAKE FRIENDSHIPS.

"RE: Dr. Hank and Mr. Hyde"
Posted by Cupidcruiser on 09-15-03 at 01:08 AM
Gee, would that sorta be like being suspicious of the ONE person in a group who doesn't get along because she/he insists on using all caps ???? Hmmmm, food for thought I say!
"RE: Dr. Hank and Mr. Hyde"
Posted by PIPPIE on 09-15-03 at 02:19 AM
CUPIDCRUISER, YOU ARE TOO FUNNY.AND HERE I DIDN'T EVEN REALIZE I WASN'T GETTING ALONG! LOVE ME, LOVE MY CAPS.
"Hank reminds me of my soon-to-be ex. All my family and friends adored him...initially"
Posted by beachgal on 09-13-03 at 03:10 AM
We had a fairy tale wedding. All my family and friends absolutely adored my husband. If you met him, you would think he couldn't hurt a flea. He's charming and brought out the best in people. He got along with everybody. He seemed to be level-headed and together. He would have flown through the Laura-and-Kim inspection with flying colors.

EVERYTHING changed the day after the wedding! Oh yeah, he was still the same guy...to everybody else BUT ME! He did subtly and eventually become controlling and possessive. It was easy to excuse away because of his bouts of showering me with romance. (It wasn't until 3 years later that I opened my eyes.)

If anybody got on his black list, watch out! He would give them heck like I've never seen. Sometimes, things which wouldn't bother anybody would bother him. Eventually, he said things about my dad (which weren't true). I was warned that if he did this to my dad that he would some day do the same to me...which he did.

I'm not saying that this will happen if Hank gets together with Lisa. I'm just pointing out the similarities of them and my marriage. Sounds like the guys at the bachelor house may have witnessed Hank choose who to "blacklist" and bring down. If Hank is one to think you're either all-great or all-idiot, with no in-between, then be careful.

Similar to Hank's dream of owning a farm, my husband had a dream he always referred to which had nothing to do with his career. I was all for supporting him all the way and at any cost. Why? Because I thought this was what having traditional values meant. Though we didn't acheive this dream, I'm so glad we didn't (I would have taken me away from any support of friends and family) In hindsight, I think he just talked about this goal because the novelty of it made people "ooh and ahh". Also, as much as I encouraged my husband, he had no follow-through on much of his talk.

Lisa reminds me so much of how I was. An introvert, yet pleasant to be around. When I was 25, I was at the top of my game in my career. I was advertising too. Since I've gotten married, I had started to lose myself because I wanted to please my picky husband all the time. He became very high maintenance.

Looking back, I do remember a few people giving me "warnings". Yet I was too in love to pay attention to them. No one ever expected things to turn out this way. I was raised to think that divorce was never an option...yet it came to the point the relationship was destructive and became necessary.

If I were to have read this post during my engagement, I would have blown it off. I sure wish I listened to the warnings I did get.

"RE: Hank reminds me of my soon-to-be ex. All my family and friends adored him...initially"
Posted by bubbastan on 09-13-03 at 05:36 PM
Beachgal, thank you for your response, and for sharing your story. I have no doubt that there are some guys out there who can come across very smooth and charming and end up being anything but. Is Hank one of them? I guess the only folks who could answer that question would be his family and close friends.

I don't know the man, and can only go by what I've seen on the show. It doesn't seem logical to me that the producers would shy away from showing Hank's bad moments, had there been many, since they didn't shy away from showing anyone else's. I guess I find myself so often coming in on Hank's defense because in many ways, he reminds me of my husband.

My guy is a serious guy, and a bit on the quiet side. He doesn't easily make casual friendships because of his reserved nature. But once he feels comfortable enough with someone to let them in, you couldn't find a more caring and giving person to have as a friend or husband. Even as a very young man, he was always very mature and focused. He had goals, and was always striving to achieve them. I was the exact oposite, an extrovert who was very spontaneous and constantly changing my priorities and plans. After being married for a bunch of years, it seems that we've both changed eachother in some good ways. He's a bit more outgoing and relaxed and I've become a bit more organized and focused.

Will this happen with Lisa and Hank, should they get together? I guess only time will tell, but it would be a very cool thing if it did.

"RE: Hank reminds me of my soon-to-be ex. All my family and friends adored him...initially"
Posted by beachgal on 09-14-03 at 01:14 PM
And thank YOU for reading my story Bub!

>>>Will this happen with Lisa and Hank, should they get together? I guess only time will tell, but it would be a very cool thing if it did.<<<

I agree with you, I do wish them the best whether together or separate. I guess some may have thought that my other posts are anti-Hank/Lisa. Yet I'm just playing devil's advocate.

To me, it's all not a matter of a happy ending being a national wedding on TV this week. I've already experienced a wedding being just that - a happy ENDING. (Note that our wedding video was submitted in competition by a friend of ours. It won 6 national awards! Interesting, huh?)

Anyway, I'm talking about a happy year from now, a happy 5 years from now, and a happy LIFETIME for Lisa and for Hank.

>>>I guess the only folks who could answer that question would be his family and close friends.<<< In my particular story, his own family couldn't have answered the question during the engagement. I guess it took marriage to see this side of my husband. To this day, literally hundreds of our acquaintances still think we were the "perfect couple". You just never know.

I guess my point is that not only is there no way to tell from the snips of carefully chosen video we've seen on the show, there's no way to tell from dating someone for a while. Even Lisa can vouch for that as we're told she had a 6-year relationship. I take it, her boyfriend cheated on her.

Throwing in the aspect of national media adds even more complexity to all this. As you said, only time will tell.

All my best to you, Bub, and your hub!

"RE: Hank reminds me of my soon-to-be ex. All my family and friends adored him...initially"
Posted by bubbastan on 09-14-03 at 04:10 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-14-03 AT 04:12 PM (EST)

Hey there, beachgal! Your point about not even family/close friends knowing how things go within a marriage is well taken. It's definitely possible for a relationship to look rosy from the outside, when inside it may be quite the opposite.

Also I like your point about the best ending possibly being one where no wedding happens, and instead Hank and Lisa take their time and get to know eachother better. That is most likely the prudent choice, especially if they're really thinking their relationship could go the distance.

The Pollyanna in me, however, would love to see this show capped off with a wedding. You know, one for all the hopeless romantics out there.

I guess one way or the other, we'll find out on Tuesday. All my best to you as well, beachgal! Hope to see you on the Survivor boards when all this is over. There's been a lot of great discussion on this forum, and I'd love for it to continue.

"RE: Dr. Hank and Mr. Hyde"
Posted by ashleybfogg on 09-13-03 at 10:51 PM
see, i just agree with you. there's a feeling that he's putting on a front, and Only with her.
i like guys that get along with guys, and they felt a lot, too. And no, no one should pick a husband from a show, but she chose this. A guy who "takes control" sounds maybe good to someone young, or let's say 'undirected from within' (please guys don't jump on that...)
but as you grow, you want someone who hears you when you say no, and considers your opinion as well as his own. 'Hank' (Henry) may be a guy like that - may well be capable of growing into that guy, but I don't see it.
I also agree about Robert, I don't care what they all say - he'd just be so happy to be chosen, and FLEXIBLE and TEACHABLE and well, despite her friends harsh behavior, SHE NEVER BANISHED HIM.
They tried, but I think she saw something there, too.
But, Robert or Evan or No, it just feels like Hank overwhelms her, and as she grows, she'll cringe.
You just don't want a guy that overrules your every whim.
"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by sassyblonde241 on 09-13-03 at 01:02 PM
<".....Joe obviously genuinely cared about Lisa,...">

Yes, made evident by the hit he put on Laura -when he was voted off- as Lisa is hugging him and apparently having her own "moment" because he is looking over Lisa's shoulder at Laura!
I don't know about anyone else, but that made me question his sincerity. Love or money?

"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by djk on 09-15-03 at 04:23 PM
I obviously can add nothing to this long thread, but I do have to say that it was very entertaining to read!! Why is it that we (myself included) are all so passionate about our opinions on this show?? Maybe that is a whole other thread, I just think it is funny!
"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by HappyDayz on 09-15-03 at 04:37 PM
LMAO....djk, was this just a DAW post? Tell the truth, you were feeling left out because everyone else posted in this (hellishly) long thread, right?
"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by ashleybfogg on 09-15-03 at 05:21 PM
Oh, Happy, no. I just had to know how people were feeling after that show, and wanted to say some things that were bugging me about Hank.
I had no idea that such a torrent of emotion was waiting!
There are a lot of feelings out there -
(and alot of information about organic vineyards, evidently...)
so cool it got so lively - this was better than the show!


ashleyb

"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by HappyDayz on 09-15-03 at 05:35 PM
Ashley, I was just ragging on djk.

This did become an emotional (and somewhat diverse) thread....and I've noticed that the most emotional responses usually surface on Tuesday and Wednesdays....when the show is still fresh on the brain and people feel more passionately about it. The feelings kind of mellow somewhat after that....though bickering, fussing, fighting, and whatnot may continue...just not as heatedly.

As much as I do love Hank and Lisa together...I honestly have to say that I think the best thing for them to do (if they truly do want to make a go of it) is get engaged tomorrow night, then take their relationship to their real lives and continue learning about each other before taking the next step.

"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by ashleybfogg on 09-15-03 at 05:55 PM
Ya!
(oh - we agree on something!
besides, people talk about oooh - a million dollars --oooh.
after taxes, it's about what? 640, thou?
divide that in half?
and if you rush into it, have a bad year , and then go through breakup...
so not worth it.
so if they really want it to work, skip the money and take the time.
but....
if they're in it for TV - for money - ya just never know.

"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by Joyful on 09-15-03 at 08:56 PM
ashleybfogg how did you make those faces? If you look at post 100 I tried to make them yet failed miserably. Help me ashleybfogg help me
"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by ashleybfogg on 09-15-03 at 11:09 PM
easy as pie, dear Joyful.
type
wink ;
nose -
smile ) all together and you get this when you post

or for the
type
eyes : and the letter o
(all together - no spaces)

and
when you write me back,
see the link right above 'your message box' and click
"Emotion icon shortcuts" there's lots more there!

here's kisses - just eyes and an asterisk

and a big smile- eyes and a D


ashley

"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by Swami on 09-16-03 at 00:27 AM
Or see my post #110 above for info on emoticons this site recognizes.


IceCat is a Genius

"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by ashleybfogg on 09-16-03 at 01:30 AM
Thanks Swami
this thread got so long (and rather heated, wouldn't you say?) that i didn't see her first attempt and your response, as i was down at the bottom trying to catch up and caught her request for help. Thanks for all you've done - this forum is really fun.

ashleyb
"RE: Poor Lisa"
Posted by djk on 09-15-03 at 05:46 PM
Of course I was feeling left out, this is one of the funniest threads out there! Honestly though I do think it is funny how passionate all of us Cupid and non-Cupid fans are! I think we might all go into Cupid withdrawls. Thank goodness Survivor is on this week, we can all go chat over there!!
"RE: Passionate Cupid Forum"
Posted by ashleybfogg on 09-15-03 at 04:47 PM
LAST EDITED ON 09-16-03 AT 00:21 AM (EST)

Me too! Thanks everybody, this was fun! Man, we covered everything, didn't we? Such passion about organic wineries, bossy guys, even computer protcol geography and grammar - not to mention some great stories.
Just to finish up this post - although this thread may revive after tomorrow night, I think I'll start a new one!


ashley